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Speaker 1: Eight thirty next Wednesday on the ABC and I View,

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Speaker 1: of course, begins Crime Night, Julia's Emiro's new show about

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Speaker 1: our strange love of true crime. Julia's with us now.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, how are you going good?

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Speaker 1: I am absolutely guilty of this. I've always been a

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Speaker 1: huge fan of true crime, and I reckon it's been

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Speaker 1: through the advent of podcasts and streaming documentaries that I've

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Speaker 1: realized just how not alone I am.

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Speaker 2: True I am not a true crime fan. I just

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Speaker 2: think I just think there's crime. There's not true crime,

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Speaker 2: crime crime, and then there's dramatic crime. You know, there's

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Speaker 2: crime shows that are written that we might enjoy watching

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Speaker 2: because they pretend and they've got great actors who've you

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Speaker 2: been able to learn a part, and they have been

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Speaker 2: great writers who have written something for them. But I

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Speaker 2: think there's been a little misunderstanding because it's funny, you know,

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Speaker 2: you sh make a show you call the show crime Night,

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Speaker 2: and people go, oh, it's about true crime. We certainly

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Speaker 2: look at aspects of it, but it's about criminology. Our producer,

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Speaker 2: Frank during Covid did a criminology degree, right, I do, yeah,

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Speaker 2: and he loved his lecturers Danielle and David so much

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Speaker 2: and he makes TV and he thought, well, I wonder

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Speaker 2: if this could be a show and spoke with them

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Speaker 2: and said would you be in for this? And they said,

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Speaker 2: we would love to spread the word about what makes

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Speaker 2: criminology an amazing subject but what goes into it? And

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Speaker 2: each episode looks at different aspects of that, surveillance, conformity, scams, alibis,

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Speaker 2: and really it's a lot about human behavior. And I

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Speaker 2: think you're right, Lie, So part of the true crime

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Speaker 2: attraction is that we are fascinated by human behavior that

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Speaker 2: goes bad. And I guess sometimes we put ourselves in

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Speaker 2: the position and go, what would I do if this

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Speaker 2: happen to me or is in my world? And I

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Speaker 2: think there's some great true crime podcasts out there, you know,

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Speaker 2: when they take the subject kind of seriously, but sometimes

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Speaker 2: I think they milk twenty five episodes out of a

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Speaker 2: story that could have gone for ten and give those victims,

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Speaker 2: you know, give those victims a story, but not really

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Speaker 2: use their pain for entertainment. But we don't do any

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Speaker 2: of that. We will be there with great respect, and

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Speaker 2: we do have comedians and criminologists on the panel, but

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Speaker 2: the comedians. We really hand chose them to say, we

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Speaker 2: know you're smart, we know you're curious, ask good questions,

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Speaker 2: and if we do any comedy, it'll be towards yourselves,

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Speaker 2: not towards the material.

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Speaker 3: Trying to find the light aside to crime, Lisa was

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Speaker 3: saying that she is a true crime in her case,

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Speaker 3: Fan I actually heard just a few days ago the

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Speaker 3: numbers show that it's actually women.

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Speaker 1: Who are far more fascinating.

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Speaker 3: Fascinated by true crime and crime stories more so than men.

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Speaker 3: I wonder why that is.

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Speaker 1: Because it happens because men do all the crimes.

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Speaker 2: Women are no.

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Speaker 4: No, Well that's another conversation. But I would say, the

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Speaker 4: theory behind the theory, Oh do you need to go

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Speaker 4: that far back? The theory behind it is that the

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Speaker 4: theory behind women loving it is from what I understand,

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Speaker 4: is that it's a fascination around going what would I

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Speaker 4: do if I were in that situation. It's like listening

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Speaker 4: to the worst case scenario to kind of figure out

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Speaker 4: how not to do it.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know if that works necessarily. And sure,

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Speaker 2: you could bring up the mushroom case.

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Speaker 3: I was just going to say something a little more recent.

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Speaker 2: Of course, but again, I would say it's there became

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Speaker 2: this fascination about the way she did it. But if

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Speaker 2: she had been quite violent, you know, if she had

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Speaker 2: killed those three people with a gun, the story might

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Speaker 2: not have gone on as long as it did. But

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Speaker 2: somehow Australians found the hilarity supposed hilarity around the fact

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Speaker 2: that it was done with poisoning and mushrooms, and really

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Speaker 2: I think that got completely out of that went completely

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Speaker 2: off piece.

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Speaker 3: So do I.

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Speaker 1: I found that whole story very awkward. The way people were,

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Speaker 1: you know, the way they talked about it.

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Speaker 3: Do you touch on that or is it a little

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Speaker 3: too soon?

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Speaker 2: There's one sentence around it, and it was really from

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Speaker 2: the panel. It's not in the script. It was from

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Speaker 2: the panel who mentioned it in terms of something that

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Speaker 2: made sense to what we were talking about. But really,

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Speaker 2: if you're watching it, if you're tuning into watch the

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Speaker 2: show for that, it won't be there. You'll be disappointed,

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Speaker 2: So go and listen to a podcast.

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Speaker 1: It's like, furthermore to that, it's like that guy that

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Speaker 1: shot the health care guy in New York and everyone

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Speaker 1: was banging on about how good looking he was. I

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Speaker 1: felt like I was living in a parallel.

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Speaker 3: World a strange twist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but also if you look at cases historically, that

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Speaker 2: sort of stuff's always happened strangely well, And so I

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Speaker 2: know it's funny whether it was one hundred years ago

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Speaker 2: on now, they will find those angles. We just have

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Speaker 2: it now on an unbelievable scale because of social media,

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Speaker 2: twenty four our news service, all of that. But look

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Speaker 2: in our shows, we really try and look at elements

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Speaker 2: around human behavior because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 2: if you are accused of something, we have to rely

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Speaker 2: on our fellow human beings standing in the jury or

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Speaker 2: come in with eye witness accounts. They're going to decide

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Speaker 2: tould agree what happens. And you know, any of us

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Speaker 2: are a step away from doing something wrong, whether we

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Speaker 2: want to or not. If you are someone who is

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Speaker 2: homeless through no fault of your own, and often it

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Speaker 2: is through no fault of your own to do something illegal,

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Speaker 2: to get money, to do something, what would you do

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Speaker 2: if you're in that situation. You might steal, you might

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Speaker 2: do something. And so back to the idea that we

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Speaker 2: live in a society where we should try and look

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Speaker 2: after everyone. So I hope we can give it that

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Speaker 2: bigger angle. And it's only series one. We've only got

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Speaker 2: six episodes, so in series two we hope to build

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Speaker 2: on that good will.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's funny you should say that because I've just

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Speaker 1: been on jury duty and I have and as I've

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Speaker 1: said to everyone, it affected me in ways I absolutely

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Speaker 1: never would have imagined.

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Speaker 2: So it is, Lisa, you are the perfect person. That

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Speaker 2: is exactly. But I mean, isn't that fascinating. That's what

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Speaker 2: we try and view in one of our episodes that

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Speaker 2: you think you are right?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well yeah I am, but you think you will

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Speaker 1: think one way, you know, and then there's all these

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Speaker 1: extenuating sort of circumstances that you're not you can't consider

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Speaker 1: and it really does affect and you're making a decision

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Speaker 1: that's going to mean someone goes to.

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Speaker 2: You absolutely and when you've got that kind of weight

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Speaker 2: on your shoulders, we start to go, well, how judgmental

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Speaker 2: am I? Or how much can I separate the facts

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Speaker 2: from what I'm thinking? Where does my own personal bias

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Speaker 2: come in? We talk about bias in a couple of

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Speaker 2: the episodes. It's natural to have a bias. It's kind

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Speaker 2: of impossible in a way. We all grow up in

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Speaker 2: a certain set of circumstances. But wow, I think I

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Speaker 2: would love to do jury judy. The only two times

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Speaker 2: I've been asked, I couldn't do it because I was working.

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Speaker 2: But I just think it must be a fascinating thing.

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Speaker 2: And I hope you share really well with people. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because only you know.

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Speaker 4: What it was like.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, Julia, out of all the crime cases that you

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Speaker 3: investigate on the series, what's the one that really gripped

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Speaker 3: you that affected you.

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Speaker 2: Look, we do, we do touch on the Asari Chamberlain case,

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Speaker 2: and I will say that touched me because I was

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Speaker 2: fifteen and it was sort of everywhere. And this is

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Speaker 2: the other thing. As I was reflecting on it, we

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Speaker 2: were doing the research that blew up as much as

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Speaker 2: it could within what we had in terms of what

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Speaker 2: we didn't have social media, but that stuff was everywhere.

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Speaker 2: So again it's not just about the social media we

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Speaker 2: have today. That story was everywhere and I was I

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Speaker 2: remember at fifteen and my mum talking to me about it,

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Speaker 2: and we were talking and dissecting this idea of why

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Speaker 2: is this woman who is not responding as a woman

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Speaker 2: is supposedly supposed to respond. She's not crying, she doesn't

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Speaker 2: look upset how we all decided or society decided she

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Speaker 2: was guilty by the way she looked, by the fact

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Speaker 2: that she followed a certain religion, by the fact that

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Speaker 2: it was done on a national icon like Ularu. It

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Speaker 2: had the sort of a sort of a kind of

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Speaker 2: with the stage, if you like, of it was very

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Speaker 2: grand and very Australian if you like. And so all

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Speaker 2: these things came together where as a pack mentality, the

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Speaker 2: audience in general, people in general decided for themselves what

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Speaker 2: the outcome could be. And we talked about it so

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Speaker 2: much as fifteen year olds because we couldn't quite get it,

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Speaker 2: like it was so odd and strange and what was

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Speaker 2: And in the end, when Lindy was eventually exonerated, and

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Speaker 2: we talk about the lack of the terrible forensic investigation,

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Speaker 2: things that weren't looked at. They got an expert from

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Speaker 2: England on who knew nothing about dingos. And again, wouldn't

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Speaker 2: it have been incredible if we'd actually spoken to First

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Speaker 2: Nations rangers and First Nations people who know about dingos.

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Speaker 2: It's all that kind of thing that's missing from the

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Speaker 2: justice system where that woman's life. Not only did she

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Speaker 2: lose her child, then had to go to prison, have

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Speaker 2: that incredible kind of awful life. I met her once

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Speaker 2: in a lift years later, and I was so overwhelmed

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Speaker 2: by meeting this woman looking at her. She'd survived it.

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Speaker 2: It was in the time which she kind of she

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Speaker 2: dyed her hair kind of purple or pink. She had

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Speaker 2: a crazy kind of color in her hair, and I

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Speaker 2: didn't I don't know if she recognized me or not,

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Speaker 2: but we just had this lovely conversation and I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to give her kind words, you know, like.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they all feel a little bit guilty about living completely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, completely. And in the film that was made of it,

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Speaker 2: there's a great moment where in the film they they

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Speaker 2: kept going back to the filmmaker decided to kind of

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Speaker 2: set some of the scenes in everyday kitchens and workplaces

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Speaker 2: to see what the conversation was. And yeah, everyone was

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Speaker 2: just dumping on her and had very strong opinions. And

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Speaker 2: that stuff spreads, and it spreads now like wildfire, but

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Speaker 2: it was spreading then.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, you said pack mentality, That's what it was. People

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Speaker 1: were baying for her.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, All right, Well, we.

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Speaker 1: Could talk all day, but we can't. We're not allowed, Julia,

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Speaker 1: we will be tuning in next Wednesday, eight thirty on ABC,

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Speaker 1: just one week to go.

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Speaker 2: Thanks for chatting for pleasure. I hope you all enjoy

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Speaker 2: it and I hope you'll get something out of it.

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Speaker 3: Oh, thank you, Julia, Julia Bye,