1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,160
Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily Odds. It's Wednesday,

2
00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,160
Speaker 1: the twenty fifth of May, and on today's episode of

3
00:00:06,280 --> 00:00:08,400
Speaker 1: the Daily Ods, Sam's going to be taking us through

4
00:00:08,600 --> 00:00:12,040
Speaker 1: what the latest is on Taiwan. Before we get to that, though,

5
00:00:12,080 --> 00:00:15,160
Speaker 1: there's a fair bit going on in domestic politics, namely

6
00:00:15,200 --> 00:00:16,880
Speaker 1: the Quad meeting that happened yesterday.

7
00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:21,919
Speaker 2: That's right, so hours after being sworn in, we know

8
00:00:21,960 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 2: that Prime Minister Anthony Alberinizi jumped on the plane destined

9
00:00:25,120 --> 00:00:28,760
Speaker 2: for Japan, where he's now met US, Indian and Japanese

10
00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:31,800
Speaker 2: leaders for the Quad meeting and said, we have had

11
00:00:31,840 --> 00:00:34,680
Speaker 2: a change of government in Australia, but Australia's commitment to

12
00:00:34,760 --> 00:00:38,080
Speaker 2: the Quad has not changed and will not change. Indian

13
00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:41,600
Speaker 2: Prime Minister Norenda Emodi remarked, you being here with us

14
00:00:41,720 --> 00:00:44,680
Speaker 2: just twenty four hours from being sworn in demonstrates your

15
00:00:44,720 --> 00:00:45,920
Speaker 2: commitment to the Quad.

16
00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:49,880
Speaker 1: It appears all but likely that Peter Dudden will become

17
00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,960
Speaker 1: the next leader of the Liberal Party. It's reported that

18
00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:57,040
Speaker 1: former Environment Minister Susan Lee and Bridget Archer, a backbencher,

19
00:00:57,120 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 1: could both contest the deputy leadership.

20
00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:03,120
Speaker 2: Meanwhile, in Ukraine, a twenty one year old Russian soldier

21
00:01:03,160 --> 00:01:05,440
Speaker 2: has been sentenced to life in prison after he was

22
00:01:05,440 --> 00:01:09,360
Speaker 2: found guilty of killing an unarmed civilian by a Ukrainian court.

23
00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:12,920
Speaker 2: He pleaded guilty to shooting a sixty two year old man.

24
00:01:12,959 --> 00:01:15,200
Speaker 2: This is the first war crimes trial to be held

25
00:01:15,280 --> 00:01:17,880
Speaker 2: since Russia's invasion of Ukraine in February.

26
00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,200
Speaker 1: Today's good news, the Church of Scotland has voted to

27
00:01:22,240 --> 00:01:26,000
Speaker 1: allow same sex marriages. The Church's General Assembly voted two

28
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,440
Speaker 1: hundred and seventy four to one hundred and thirty six

29
00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:38,160
Speaker 1: to allow its ministers to officiate at same sex marriages. Okay,

30
00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,120
Speaker 1: so Sam, we mentioned at the top that we'd be

31
00:01:40,160 --> 00:01:44,400
Speaker 1: talking about Taiwan. So some comments made by US President

32
00:01:44,480 --> 00:01:48,200
Speaker 1: Joe Biden have stirred the pot and the situation. What's

33
00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:49,720
Speaker 1: happened and why are we talking about it?

34
00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,840
Speaker 2: Cutting right to the chase here, US President Joe Biden

35
00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,840
Speaker 2: has said his country would intervene militarily if China attempts

36
00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 2: to take Taiwan by force. There's a lot to deconstruct

37
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:04,880
Speaker 2: in that sentence. Let's take it bit by bit, but overall,

38
00:02:04,920 --> 00:02:07,800
Speaker 2: this is a warning that appeared to deviate quite strongly

39
00:02:07,880 --> 00:02:11,960
Speaker 2: from what the US describes as the strategic ambiguity traditionally

40
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,880
Speaker 2: held by US leaders towards China and Taiwan. Here's the

41
00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,920
Speaker 2: moments that President Biden was asked about the situation.

42
00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:22,040
Speaker 3: You didn't want to get involved in the Ukraine conflict

43
00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:26,280
Speaker 3: militarily for obvious reasons. Are you willing to get involved

44
00:02:26,320 --> 00:02:29,720
Speaker 3: militarily to defend Taiwan if it comes to that, Yes,

45
00:02:30,440 --> 00:02:30,840
Speaker 3: you are.

46
00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:37,079
Speaker 4: That's a commitment we made the idea that it can

47
00:02:37,160 --> 00:02:41,600
Speaker 4: be taken by force. Just taken by force is just

48
00:02:41,639 --> 00:02:45,400
Speaker 4: not appropriate to dislocate the entire region and be another

49
00:02:45,480 --> 00:02:50,560
Speaker 4: action similar to what happened in Ukraine.

50
00:02:50,720 --> 00:02:53,440
Speaker 1: Okay, so we've just heard from Biden. What is this

51
00:02:53,520 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 1: tension about? At its core?

52
00:02:55,600 --> 00:02:59,600
Speaker 2: So this is a long history of territorial tension after

53
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:03,600
Speaker 2: Taiwan j one split from China in nineteen forty nine. Essentially,

54
00:03:03,639 --> 00:03:06,440
Speaker 2: Taiwan sees itself as a sovereign state, and sovereign state

55
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:09,519
Speaker 2: means that it's independent from any other power. But China

56
00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,520
Speaker 2: views Taiwan as one of its provinces, kind of like

57
00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,080
Speaker 2: the way that Australia would view Tasmania. If we go

58
00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:19,720
Speaker 2: back to twenty twenty one, China's President Jijimping promised to

59
00:03:19,840 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 2: realize quote peaceful reunification with Taiwan. He said that no

60
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:28,000
Speaker 2: one should underestimate the Chinese people's strong determination, will and

61
00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:34,200
Speaker 2: capability to safeguard national sovereignty and territorial integrity. Following that statement,

62
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 2: there was a reaction from Taiwan because this is one

63
00:03:37,160 --> 00:03:41,400
Speaker 2: of the clearest indication of China's priorities. And following the statement,

64
00:03:41,440 --> 00:03:44,520
Speaker 2: Taiwan's president said, We'll do our utmost to prevent the

65
00:03:44,560 --> 00:03:48,160
Speaker 2: status quo from being unilaterally altered. We will continue to

66
00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:51,560
Speaker 2: bolster our national defense and demonstrate our determination to defend

67
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:54,560
Speaker 2: ourselves in order to ensure that nobody can force Taiwan

68
00:03:54,840 --> 00:03:57,240
Speaker 2: to take the path China has laid out for us.

69
00:03:57,680 --> 00:03:59,880
Speaker 2: Now it's important to stop his aarra and realize why

70
00:04:00,080 --> 00:04:03,720
Speaker 2: Taiwan is important. There's two main arguments here. There's one

71
00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,440
Speaker 2: about the military importance. If China was to take over Taiwan.

72
00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:10,840
Speaker 2: Some experts suggest China would be freer to project power

73
00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:14,280
Speaker 2: into the Western Pacific and could possibly even threaten US

74
00:04:14,400 --> 00:04:19,000
Speaker 2: military bases as far away as Guam and Hawaii. Economically speaking,

75
00:04:19,000 --> 00:04:22,440
Speaker 2: Taiwan's economy is hugely important to all of US. Much

76
00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:26,719
Speaker 2: of the world's everyday electronic equipment like laptops, phones, watchers,

77
00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,360
Speaker 2: game consoles, and now even electric vehicles are powered by

78
00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,200
Speaker 2: computer chips made in Taiwan.

79
00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:35,280
Speaker 1: All right, so how did the White House respond?

80
00:04:35,960 --> 00:04:38,720
Speaker 2: So, as I said before, the White House has typically

81
00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:42,800
Speaker 2: taken a strategically ambiguous position on Taiwan to kind of

82
00:04:42,920 --> 00:04:47,320
Speaker 2: cool temperatures down in this quite tense situation. When President

83
00:04:47,320 --> 00:04:50,000
Speaker 2: Biden came out and said that the US would respond

84
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,320
Speaker 2: militarily if China made a move into Taiwan, the White

85
00:04:53,360 --> 00:04:57,120
Speaker 2: House quickly downplayed these comments, saying they don't reflect a

86
00:04:57,240 --> 00:05:00,000
Speaker 2: change in US policy. The White House said that present

87
00:05:00,080 --> 00:05:03,720
Speaker 2: and Biden reiterated our One China policy and our commitment

88
00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:06,560
Speaker 2: to peace and stability across the Taiwan Strait. He also

89
00:05:06,640 --> 00:05:09,760
Speaker 2: reiterated our commitment under the Taiwan Relations Act, which is

90
00:05:09,760 --> 00:05:12,360
Speaker 2: the body of law that dictates the way in which

91
00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,840
Speaker 2: the US and Taiwan interact, to provide Taiwan with the

92
00:05:15,880 --> 00:05:19,799
Speaker 2: military means to defend itself. Now, remember this is actually

93
00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,800
Speaker 2: the third time in recent months that President Biden has

94
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:26,360
Speaker 2: said the US would protect Taiwan from a Chinese attack,

95
00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,360
Speaker 2: only to have the White House walk back those remarks

96
00:05:29,400 --> 00:05:30,400
Speaker 2: pretty quickly after.

97
00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:33,480
Speaker 1: So, just quickly, what is the one China policy.

98
00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:37,240
Speaker 2: The One China policy is the diplomatic acknowledgment of China's

99
00:05:37,279 --> 00:05:40,520
Speaker 2: position that there's only one Chinese government. So under this policy,

100
00:05:40,560 --> 00:05:44,080
Speaker 2: the US recognizes and has formal ties with China rather

101
00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,960
Speaker 2: than the island of Taiwan. And this is again because

102
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,720
Speaker 2: China sees Taiwan as a breakaway province to be reunified

103
00:05:50,760 --> 00:05:54,000
Speaker 2: with the mainland at some point. It's important to note, though,

104
00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,440
Speaker 2: that this is not an endorsement of Beijing's position. And

105
00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,760
Speaker 2: as part of this one China policy, the US government

106
00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:05,159
Speaker 2: said that they will maintain a robust unofficial relationship with Taiwan, including,

107
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:08,320
Speaker 2: as the White House said yesterday, continued armed sales to

108
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,840
Speaker 2: the island so it can defend itself, all.

109
00:06:10,760 --> 00:06:13,480
Speaker 1: Right, So, Sam, have we heard anything from China since

110
00:06:13,520 --> 00:06:14,719
Speaker 1: these comments were made.

111
00:06:15,000 --> 00:06:17,960
Speaker 2: We heard a pretty quick reaction from the Chinese government.

112
00:06:18,040 --> 00:06:21,719
Speaker 2: They warned the US is playing with fire. After President

113
00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:26,040
Speaker 2: Biden said that they would defend Taiwan militarily. The Chinese

114
00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:28,960
Speaker 2: State Council's Taiwan Affairs Office said on Monday that the

115
00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:32,360
Speaker 2: US is using the Taiwan card to contain China and

116
00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:34,160
Speaker 2: will get itself burned.

117
00:06:34,240 --> 00:06:36,840
Speaker 1: And Australia anyway, I mean, we have a new prime minister.

118
00:06:37,040 --> 00:06:40,080
Speaker 1: It was no doubt spoken about at the Quad meeting, and.

119
00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:42,680
Speaker 2: It was spoken about that the press conferences. To Prime

120
00:06:42,680 --> 00:06:47,160
Speaker 2: Minister Albanzi was asked straight away whether Australia endorsed this

121
00:06:47,200 --> 00:06:50,320
Speaker 2: position by President Biden. The Prime Minister said that he

122
00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:53,320
Speaker 2: stood by the remarks that the US would get directly

123
00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,400
Speaker 2: involved if China invaded Taiwan, but added that Australia's position

124
00:06:57,480 --> 00:07:00,279
Speaker 2: on this remains unchanged, so kind of similar to what

125
00:07:00,360 --> 00:07:03,160
Speaker 2: the White House was saying. This is exactly what the

126
00:07:03,160 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 2: Prime Minister said on the relationship more broadly with China

127
00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:09,200
Speaker 2: before he left for Japan a couple of days ago.

128
00:07:09,360 --> 00:07:13,160
Speaker 5: What I have said and we maintain is that the

129
00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:18,800
Speaker 5: relationship with China will remain a difficult one. I said

130
00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:23,000
Speaker 5: that before the election. That has not changed. It is

131
00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:27,800
Speaker 5: China that has changed, not Australia, and Australia should always

132
00:07:28,120 --> 00:07:31,280
Speaker 5: stand up for our values. What we should do is

133
00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,360
Speaker 5: put Australia's national interest first and not attempt to play

134
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,120
Speaker 5: politics with national security issues.

135
00:07:38,360 --> 00:07:42,000
Speaker 1: Taking a step back does a war in Taiwan actually

136
00:07:42,040 --> 00:07:42,720
Speaker 1: seem imminent.

137
00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:45,440
Speaker 2: I think this is a really important note to end

138
00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:47,880
Speaker 2: the podcast on, because I do want everyone to have

139
00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:50,440
Speaker 2: a good Wednesday, and not thinking that we're about to

140
00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,720
Speaker 2: have more conflict than already exists in the world. Right now,

141
00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:57,520
Speaker 2: we have quite a dramatic conflict in Ukraine involving Russia.

142
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,560
Speaker 2: So the short answer is no. But in twenty twenty one,

143
00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:05,200
Speaker 2: China did appear to ramp up pressure by sending military

144
00:08:05,240 --> 00:08:08,720
Speaker 2: aircraft into what is called the Air Defense Zone, which

145
00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:12,240
Speaker 2: is a self declared area of Taiwan where foreign aircraft

146
00:08:12,240 --> 00:08:16,000
Speaker 2: are identified and logged in a kind of data system.

147
00:08:16,440 --> 00:08:19,840
Speaker 2: In twenty twenty one, the biggest day of incursions into

148
00:08:19,840 --> 00:08:23,000
Speaker 2: this airspace near Taiwan was in October, where there were

149
00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,840
Speaker 2: fifty six incursions in a single day. Despite that, and

150
00:08:26,880 --> 00:08:29,640
Speaker 2: despite the comments from the President overnight, I think the

151
00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,760
Speaker 2: Taiwanese people are so used to this impending war that

152
00:08:33,880 --> 00:08:35,720
Speaker 2: two other three of them think that a war with

153
00:08:35,800 --> 00:08:39,920
Speaker 2: China is inevitable one day. But by that same survey,

154
00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,040
Speaker 2: eighty percent of people in Taiwan don't think that it's

155
00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:45,800
Speaker 2: going to happen soon. So we're kind of in a

156
00:08:45,840 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 2: state of flux. This has done nothing but fan the

157
00:08:49,360 --> 00:08:52,160
Speaker 2: tensions a little bit with China, and we'll have to see.

158
00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,079
Speaker 2: This is the first major test for Australia's new government

159
00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:56,400
Speaker 2: in terms of foreign policy.

160
00:08:56,640 --> 00:09:00,360
Speaker 1: Definitely interesting to consider what will happen dear political now

161
00:09:00,360 --> 00:09:03,480
Speaker 1: that we have a new government, and whether Australia's posture,

162
00:09:03,720 --> 00:09:06,920
Speaker 1: certainly in the Pacific will change or not. It's something

163
00:09:06,920 --> 00:09:08,840
Speaker 1: we'll be keeping a close eye on and we'll be

164
00:09:08,840 --> 00:09:11,200
Speaker 1: sure to keep you updated and on top of all

165
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:14,000
Speaker 1: of the news from that region until that time. Though.

166
00:09:14,280 --> 00:09:16,440
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us on today's episode of The

167
00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,080
Speaker 1: Daily Ohs and if you're interested in staying up to

168
00:09:19,160 --> 00:09:22,120
Speaker 1: date with what is happening day to day, head over

169
00:09:22,160 --> 00:09:24,520
Speaker 1: to our Instagram at the Daily OS. It's where over

170
00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,439
Speaker 1: three hundred and sixty thousand dossies get their news every day,

171
00:09:27,440 --> 00:09:28,880
Speaker 1: and we'd love to have you over there.