1 00:00:00,920 --> 00:00:04,360 Speaker 1: To live and work in the Internet age is to 2 00:00:04,440 --> 00:00:08,959 Speaker 1: live in the age of information abundance. The amount of 3 00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:13,480 Speaker 1: information of knowledge that's accessible at any moment is completely 4 00:00:13,600 --> 00:00:16,919 Speaker 1: mind boggling and it's changed everything. 5 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,040 Speaker 2: But all of this abundance comes with a cost. 6 00:00:20,560 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 1: When all the information at the world is that your fingertips, 7 00:00:24,880 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: the question becomes what's the important knowledge and what's a 8 00:00:29,280 --> 00:00:34,559 Speaker 1: waste of precious time. Darius Farroh is something of a 9 00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: thought curator, and I found him through Wired co founder 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,319 Speaker 1: Kevin Kelly's newsletter Recommendo, which occasionally references blog posts from 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: his site. Darius pulls knowledge from a wide range of sources, 12 00:00:49,320 --> 00:00:54,120 Speaker 1: from the Stoic philosophers to investing Lenchend, Warren Buffett, and 13 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: dissects them in his writing. His website is like a 14 00:00:57,920 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: one stop shop for the best idea and practices surrounding 15 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:05,480 Speaker 1: self improvement, and I have spent many hours glued to 16 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:10,840 Speaker 1: his site. So how does Darius use investing principles in 17 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:14,959 Speaker 1: other areas of his life and work? Why does Darius 18 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:18,880 Speaker 1: believe that we need to separate our identity from our thoughts? 19 00:01:19,800 --> 00:01:24,520 Speaker 1: And how can inverting questions be a hugely powerful way 20 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,759 Speaker 1: to solve problems. 21 00:01:30,680 --> 00:01:31,319 Speaker 2: My name is. 22 00:01:31,280 --> 00:01:35,080 Speaker 1: Doctor amanthe Imba. I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder 23 00:01:35,120 --> 00:01:38,720 Speaker 1: of Behavioral science Consultancy Inventium, and this is how I 24 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:41,560 Speaker 1: work a show about how to help you do your 25 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:45,920 Speaker 1: best work. The very first article I ever read of 26 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 1: Darius's was about his six spokes theory. I loved the 27 00:01:51,760 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 1: simplicity yet impact of his theory and I was keen 28 00:01:55,240 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 1: to know how he came up with it and how 29 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,400 Speaker 1: he uses it in his own life. 30 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:04,240 Speaker 3: The basic idea is that these six spokes are the 31 00:02:04,320 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 3: six areas of my life, and the way that I 32 00:02:08,160 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 3: look at it is that you have your body, your mind, love, work, money, 33 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:21,400 Speaker 3: and play. Those are the aspects of life that I 34 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:24,639 Speaker 3: find important and I always want to make time for. 35 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 3: So the thing is that we often can't make time 36 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: for everything that we value, so sometimes we might spend 37 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:39,320 Speaker 3: a little bit less time and attention to our work 38 00:02:39,880 --> 00:02:45,360 Speaker 3: or maybe our body. But the idea behind six spokes 39 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:51,000 Speaker 3: theory is that you can't neglect more than one or 40 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 3: two things, because a wheel with six spokes can function 41 00:02:56,240 --> 00:03:02,480 Speaker 3: properly if one spoke doesn't work, but it does not 42 00:03:02,720 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 3: work if more than one spoke falls out of the wheel. 43 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:11,600 Speaker 3: So and I got that idea because you know, I 44 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:14,320 Speaker 3: grew up in the Netherlands and I was always riding 45 00:03:14,360 --> 00:03:20,200 Speaker 3: my bicycle everywhere. And I've had many instances where spoke 46 00:03:20,280 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: didn't work, but my bike kept working and the wheel 47 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,800 Speaker 3: didn't collapse. But I've also seen some wheels that had 48 00:03:28,919 --> 00:03:34,399 Speaker 3: multiple missing spokes, and those wheels did collapse, particularly when 49 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,240 Speaker 3: you hit a bump in the road. And in life 50 00:03:37,280 --> 00:03:39,720 Speaker 3: we often hit you know, bumps in the road, We 51 00:03:39,760 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 3: had challenges, and it's during those times that we risk 52 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:50,440 Speaker 3: collapsing and burning out. So to me, it's all about 53 00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 3: having the balance but also understanding that you know, life 54 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:59,720 Speaker 3: is complex and sometimes things get really challenging, and it's 55 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 3: okay to temporarily say, well, you know, maybe I don't 56 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,240 Speaker 3: have a lot of time right now to work on 57 00:04:06,360 --> 00:04:10,600 Speaker 3: my health and my body. That's okay. I'll spend a 58 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:13,920 Speaker 3: little bit more time on work or make sure that 59 00:04:13,960 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 3: I make time for my family or my relationships, but 60 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:21,440 Speaker 3: I will pick up my health in a few weeks again, 61 00:04:21,520 --> 00:04:25,120 Speaker 3: because if I don't, I risk neglecting that for a 62 00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:29,080 Speaker 3: longer time, which also makes my wheel weaker. 63 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:33,520 Speaker 1: And is there some kind of ordered or self reflection 64 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:37,320 Speaker 1: process that you use to assess whether or not all 65 00:04:37,360 --> 00:04:40,599 Speaker 1: of your spolks are in good condition at any point 66 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:41,160 Speaker 1: in time. 67 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 3: What I usually do is that if there are certain 68 00:04:44,760 --> 00:04:48,200 Speaker 3: things that I find very important, I make sure that 69 00:04:48,279 --> 00:04:51,919 Speaker 3: I either put them on my calendar or create a 70 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:55,440 Speaker 3: reminder in my reminder's app and make sure that it 71 00:04:55,520 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 3: reminds me of that thing every single day, and then 72 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:04,080 Speaker 3: I journal about it as well, because I've experienced that 73 00:05:04,720 --> 00:05:08,039 Speaker 3: only setting reminders is not enough for me. I really 74 00:05:08,080 --> 00:05:11,320 Speaker 3: need to actively think about it because after a while 75 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 3: when I set these reminders, I just ignore those as well. Yes, 76 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,400 Speaker 3: you know, one of the things that I often say 77 00:05:23,480 --> 00:05:27,920 Speaker 3: is that the reason that I'm so passionate about productivity 78 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:32,440 Speaker 3: is that I'm a lazy person by nature. So I 79 00:05:32,520 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 3: really need these types of frameworks and ideas to function properly. 80 00:05:36,640 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 3: But how I make sure that I execute this idea 81 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 3: is that I have the reminders. For example, you know, 82 00:05:44,920 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 3: on my phone, I have a reminder to meditate every day, 83 00:05:49,200 --> 00:05:54,160 Speaker 3: to journal every day, to work out, you know, depending 84 00:05:54,200 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 3: on what my schedule is right now, I work out 85 00:05:57,520 --> 00:05:59,719 Speaker 3: around three to four times a week. I have that 86 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 3: on my calendar, but I also journal about the things 87 00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 3: that I'm doing, And I love the journal at the 88 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 3: end of the day because that gives me a little 89 00:06:12,160 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 3: bit of time to reflect and see whether I worked out, 90 00:06:16,760 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: you know, whether I made time for my friends and family, 91 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:23,600 Speaker 3: you know, how work went. That just gives me a 92 00:06:23,640 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 3: few moments to just reflect on how the day went. 93 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 3: And that's the perfect time to adjust because if you 94 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:33,280 Speaker 3: do it daily and you just spend a few minutes 95 00:06:33,320 --> 00:06:36,560 Speaker 3: thinking about these things, you can adjust the next day. 96 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,159 Speaker 1: I find that interesting with the journaling. I think about 97 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:44,400 Speaker 1: my own process for journaling, which is firstly haphazard, but 98 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,360 Speaker 1: when I do do it, and I love the software 99 00:06:47,560 --> 00:06:52,800 Speaker 1: day one, I find that I will write about how 100 00:06:52,839 --> 00:06:56,919 Speaker 1: I'm feeling about things, and quite often it's about my 101 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: personal life rather than other aspects of my life like 102 00:07:02,320 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 1: work or you know, money, for example, to name a 103 00:07:05,440 --> 00:07:08,280 Speaker 1: couple of the spokes in your six folks theory. So 104 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:11,800 Speaker 1: for me, that's a really interesting concept to go, oh, 105 00:07:12,080 --> 00:07:15,240 Speaker 1: journaling about what you've actually done during the day and 106 00:07:15,280 --> 00:07:18,760 Speaker 1: how you've spent your time. So are there questions or 107 00:07:18,840 --> 00:07:21,640 Speaker 1: prompts that you ask yourself for that you think about 108 00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,200 Speaker 1: when you're doing journaling That might just be unconscious now, 109 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 1: but I'm wondering whether there were some conscious things to 110 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:29,480 Speaker 1: start with. 111 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 3: The thing that I always start with is what time 112 00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:36,320 Speaker 3: did you wake up? Or at least this is what 113 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,360 Speaker 3: I think to myself, and then I write down woke 114 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:45,440 Speaker 3: up eight am, for example, and then I'll say, went 115 00:07:45,520 --> 00:07:50,080 Speaker 3: the bet at twelve am? Or went the bet maybe 116 00:07:50,360 --> 00:07:54,080 Speaker 3: in some cases one am, And then that gives me 117 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:58,440 Speaker 3: instantly one thing to think about, and that is how 118 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:01,480 Speaker 3: many hours of sleep? Did I get it right? And 119 00:08:01,760 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 3: that's the thing that I always start with, because sleep 120 00:08:04,760 --> 00:08:08,200 Speaker 3: is so important. And that goes back to the body 121 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:13,520 Speaker 3: aspect of the six folks theory, because I have for 122 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:17,240 Speaker 3: myself created kind of a ranking when it comes to 123 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 3: these spokes, and I think the body and mind are 124 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:25,280 Speaker 3: the most important aspects to focus on because you know, 125 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,440 Speaker 3: as most of us have experienced, if you know we 126 00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:34,240 Speaker 3: don't feel physically fit or mentally well, the rest of 127 00:08:34,280 --> 00:08:38,680 Speaker 3: our life suffers as well. So that's one prompt that 128 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:41,240 Speaker 3: I always start with. And then what I do is 129 00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:44,520 Speaker 3: I move on to other things that I find valuables, 130 00:08:44,559 --> 00:08:50,040 Speaker 3: like okay, did you read? I ask myself, and fortunately 131 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 3: most of the time the answer is yes. And if 132 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,560 Speaker 3: my answer is no. That gives me a little bit 133 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 3: a time to think about, Okay, you know, why is 134 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:06,080 Speaker 3: that or what's going on? And the beauty of asking 135 00:09:06,120 --> 00:09:09,439 Speaker 3: yourself these types of yes and no questions is that 136 00:09:10,440 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 3: you really speed up the process because you know, I 137 00:09:13,760 --> 00:09:17,760 Speaker 3: don't while I do enjoy journaling, I don't necessarily want 138 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,440 Speaker 3: to spend half an hour or an hour journaling every day. 139 00:09:22,840 --> 00:09:26,680 Speaker 3: I don't know how many people can actually make that 140 00:09:26,840 --> 00:09:28,840 Speaker 3: much time for it. But if you ask yourself a 141 00:09:28,840 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 3: couple of yes and no questions like Okay, did I 142 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:33,840 Speaker 3: how many hours did asklee? Or did I get my 143 00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 3: eight hours of sleep? You know? Did I read? Did 144 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,000 Speaker 3: I do the things that I set out to do 145 00:09:41,120 --> 00:09:46,400 Speaker 3: for today? Did I work out? Did I have dinner 146 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:48,800 Speaker 3: with my family? Et cetera? Right, Like, these types of 147 00:09:48,880 --> 00:09:53,280 Speaker 3: yes and no questions really serve as reminders but also 148 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:56,520 Speaker 3: as a way for yourself to adjust if that's necessary, 149 00:09:56,559 --> 00:10:01,040 Speaker 3: and hopefully it's not necessary at all. So that's what 150 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,600 Speaker 3: I love about this format as well. 151 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:08,680 Speaker 1: Now, you're a big fan of stoic philosophy, and I'd 152 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,040 Speaker 1: love to know how do you apply stoic thinking in 153 00:10:12,240 --> 00:10:14,040 Speaker 1: your work on a daily basis? 154 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:20,480 Speaker 3: So Stoicism is really a mental model for approaching life 155 00:10:20,760 --> 00:10:26,080 Speaker 3: in general. You can apply it to your relationships, you 156 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:29,000 Speaker 3: can apply it to work, you can apply it to investing. 157 00:10:29,480 --> 00:10:33,240 Speaker 3: The basic idea behind stoicism is that you only focus 158 00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,680 Speaker 3: on what's inside your control. And that's what I really 159 00:10:36,679 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 3: love about the philosophy is that you can really summarize 160 00:10:40,480 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 3: it in one sentence, and that is focus on what's 161 00:10:45,880 --> 00:10:49,679 Speaker 3: inside your control and not what's outside of your control. 162 00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,480 Speaker 3: And if you really think about what's outside of your control, 163 00:10:53,800 --> 00:11:00,400 Speaker 3: it's basically everything except for your own actions and observations 164 00:11:01,040 --> 00:11:06,559 Speaker 3: and the things that you actually do and think. So 165 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:11,240 Speaker 3: the list of things that's inside your control is quite 166 00:11:11,320 --> 00:11:15,320 Speaker 3: small compared to the stuff that's not inside your control. 167 00:11:15,920 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 3: So I run to the into these type of situations 168 00:11:21,600 --> 00:11:25,079 Speaker 3: very often in life. This is a very silly example, 169 00:11:25,200 --> 00:11:28,600 Speaker 3: but right now in the Netherlands we've been having very 170 00:11:28,640 --> 00:11:35,160 Speaker 3: bad weather and the winter feels like it's going on endlessly. 171 00:11:35,280 --> 00:11:39,520 Speaker 3: In the past, I would really complain about it often. 172 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:43,040 Speaker 3: I still complain about it every now and then because 173 00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,800 Speaker 3: I think that's kind of a part of Dutch culture 174 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:50,360 Speaker 3: as well more as a form of entertainment. But I 175 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,000 Speaker 3: don't let it get to me when I wake up. 176 00:11:53,960 --> 00:11:57,000 Speaker 3: I'd love to go for a run, and especially when 177 00:11:57,120 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 3: when the weather is nice. But now I look at 178 00:11:59,440 --> 00:12:01,880 Speaker 3: the weather and it's raining and it's windy, and I'd 179 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 3: love to think that I'm a super hard person, but 180 00:12:05,559 --> 00:12:07,560 Speaker 3: I'm not that hard. I don't like to go out 181 00:12:07,920 --> 00:12:11,959 Speaker 3: during a storm to run. So I think to myself, well, 182 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:15,160 Speaker 3: you know, I also have a treadmill, so that's good enough. 183 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,200 Speaker 3: And if I don't have that, I can go to 184 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:21,839 Speaker 3: the gym. Right So, I really remind myself of the 185 00:12:21,840 --> 00:12:24,520 Speaker 3: things that I control and make sure that I don't 186 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:30,960 Speaker 3: allow myself to give in to negative emotions that usually 187 00:12:31,320 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 3: are the result of thinking about things that are outside 188 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:37,840 Speaker 3: of our control. 189 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:40,920 Speaker 1: Something you've written about is how you find it beneficial 190 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:45,120 Speaker 1: to separate yourself or your identity from your thoughts, and 191 00:12:46,520 --> 00:12:48,360 Speaker 1: I'd love you to talk a bit more about that 192 00:12:48,559 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: and what that looks like on a daily basis for you. 193 00:12:51,440 --> 00:12:56,800 Speaker 3: Yeah. So I also meditate, and I follow Eastern philosophy 194 00:12:56,880 --> 00:13:02,560 Speaker 3: and mindfulness. I use Sam Harris's app Waking Up, And 195 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,960 Speaker 3: what I love about meditation is that it's a very 196 00:13:07,960 --> 00:13:13,840 Speaker 3: clear exercise to make sure that you do not become 197 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:18,240 Speaker 3: a slave to your own thoughts. And in fact, Stoicism 198 00:13:18,960 --> 00:13:23,720 Speaker 3: and Eastern philosophy and Buddhism and mindfulness have a lot 199 00:13:23,760 --> 00:13:27,760 Speaker 3: of similarities. The difference is that the way that they 200 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 3: practice the philosophy is different. In Stoicism, what they did 201 00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 3: was they kind of argued themselves out of challenges or 202 00:13:41,559 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 3: when they had certain types of negative thoughts, they would 203 00:13:45,280 --> 00:13:51,160 Speaker 3: use their journal or through talking about it, they would 204 00:13:51,240 --> 00:13:55,440 Speaker 3: kind of argue with themselves that it's not helpful to 205 00:13:55,520 --> 00:14:00,120 Speaker 3: think about the things you don't control. In mindfulness and 206 00:14:00,200 --> 00:14:06,000 Speaker 3: Eastern philosophy, they don't do the talking. They just observe, right, 207 00:14:07,080 --> 00:14:12,520 Speaker 3: And I actually prefer that type of exercise on a 208 00:14:12,600 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 3: day to day basis because I feel like observing the 209 00:14:17,480 --> 00:14:25,320 Speaker 3: mind is even simpler than journaling and kind of arguing 210 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 3: with yourself to say, well, you know, I'm I have fear, 211 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:34,760 Speaker 3: or I have desire, or I have greed or whatever 212 00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:38,520 Speaker 3: it is, or you know, I'm overthinking and i'm you know, 213 00:14:38,640 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 3: I can't really get out of my own head. The 214 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:44,200 Speaker 3: Stoics would say, well, it's time for you to focus 215 00:14:44,240 --> 00:14:48,360 Speaker 3: on what you control, and in my experience, that doesn't 216 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 3: work in all of the times. But what does work 217 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:59,720 Speaker 3: always in my experience is meditation. It has never really 218 00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:04,520 Speaker 3: this appointed me. So when I talk about observing your 219 00:15:04,560 --> 00:15:09,240 Speaker 3: mind and making sure that you do not identify yourself 220 00:15:10,080 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 3: with the thoughts that you have, I really talk about meditation. 221 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 3: And that's why I really love it, because it helps 222 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,240 Speaker 3: you to make sure that you do not become one 223 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 3: with your thoughts. Because I don't know about you, but 224 00:15:28,760 --> 00:15:30,760 Speaker 3: when I have a lot of when I'm working on 225 00:15:30,840 --> 00:15:34,800 Speaker 3: a lot of different projects and I'm very active in life, 226 00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 3: I can also be someone who thinks a lot. And 227 00:15:40,000 --> 00:15:44,560 Speaker 3: when I'm thinking all the time, I use up my energy. 228 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:49,760 Speaker 3: And when I do that, I'm ready to sleep by 229 00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 3: seven pm. And that's not how I want to live 230 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:59,360 Speaker 3: my life. So I use all of these practices to, 231 00:16:00,760 --> 00:16:04,720 Speaker 3: you know, remind myself that you know, these thoughts are there. 232 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:10,800 Speaker 3: That's a function of our left brain, and it just 233 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:13,720 Speaker 3: keeps on going and going and going, and you don't 234 00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:18,320 Speaker 3: have to listen to everything your mind says. I might 235 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,640 Speaker 3: walk down the street and I might see a very 236 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:24,600 Speaker 3: nice car and I might think to myself, well, that's 237 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 3: a nice car. Maybe I should buy a new car, right, 238 00:16:29,680 --> 00:16:32,520 Speaker 3: And like, I don't know where that comes from I have. Honestly, 239 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:36,160 Speaker 3: I have no clue. I'm not a car guy at all. Right, 240 00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:40,120 Speaker 3: Like I look at a car as a mode of transportation, 241 00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 3: and I don't really care about cars. But when I 242 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,480 Speaker 3: see a fancy car, my mind goes on and it's like, hey, 243 00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 3: you should buy a new car. Like what where does 244 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:56,720 Speaker 3: this come from? So that's that's kind of the mind 245 00:16:56,800 --> 00:17:01,400 Speaker 3: that I want to detach from, because I don't think 246 00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:06,399 Speaker 3: that's that's you, Like, that's not that that's not the 247 00:17:06,480 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 3: real me. 248 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:11,600 Speaker 1: You said that writing has made you a better investor, 249 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,359 Speaker 1: But what about the other way around, Like how is 250 00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,879 Speaker 1: your experience in investing helped you in other areas of 251 00:17:17,920 --> 00:17:18,439 Speaker 1: your work. 252 00:17:19,200 --> 00:17:23,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a very good question. Actually. So I started 253 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:26,760 Speaker 3: investing in the stock market in two thousand and seven, 254 00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:31,760 Speaker 3: and that was right before the Great stock market Crash 255 00:17:31,800 --> 00:17:34,560 Speaker 3: of two thousand and eight, and I lost about sixty 256 00:17:34,600 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 3: percent of my money back then. And you know, I 257 00:17:39,000 --> 00:17:41,639 Speaker 3: was I think it was twenty at the time, So 258 00:17:41,680 --> 00:17:43,840 Speaker 3: it wasn't a lot of money, but it was a 259 00:17:43,840 --> 00:17:47,640 Speaker 3: lot of money for me at the time. So one 260 00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:52,600 Speaker 3: thing that I learned is that sometimes things look a 261 00:17:52,640 --> 00:17:56,600 Speaker 3: little bit different from the outside. And I really learned 262 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: this lesson through investing, because you know, at the time, 263 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:04,119 Speaker 3: I worked at a bank at ing and I, you know, 264 00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 3: had like training for selling mutual funds, and I really 265 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,800 Speaker 3: thought I was a hot shot, and I thought I 266 00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 3: knew a lot about investing, and and you know, just 267 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:16,840 Speaker 3: talking to my co workers and you know, reading a 268 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:20,320 Speaker 3: little bit about it, I thought that I knew how 269 00:18:20,359 --> 00:18:25,800 Speaker 3: the whole finance world worked. And then I, you know, 270 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 3: took some action and put my money online. And then 271 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 3: when everything collapsed, I got really scared and I pulled 272 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,000 Speaker 3: out of the market, and I didn't invest for many years. 273 00:18:38,119 --> 00:18:42,040 Speaker 3: And I learned that, you know, something might look very 274 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:46,760 Speaker 3: simple from the outside, because investing in the stock market 275 00:18:47,040 --> 00:18:51,520 Speaker 3: or you know, investing in cryptocurrencies, et cetera, it always 276 00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 3: looks very simple because the stories are always the same. Well, 277 00:18:56,760 --> 00:19:02,280 Speaker 3: this person bought so and so stock at five dollars 278 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:06,959 Speaker 3: and now it's five hundred. Wow, congratulations, right, and then 279 00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,320 Speaker 3: we see that and we think, oh, I can do that. 280 00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:13,360 Speaker 3: And back then I had no clue about you know, 281 00:19:13,440 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 3: how many professional money managers actually lose money, how hard 282 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:24,639 Speaker 3: investing is, or how how hard stock picking is, I 283 00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,800 Speaker 3: should say, And I just looked at investing from a 284 00:19:30,000 --> 00:19:33,320 Speaker 3: very you know, superficial level and from the outside, and 285 00:19:33,359 --> 00:19:35,960 Speaker 3: I had no clue what was happening under the hood. 286 00:19:36,680 --> 00:19:39,960 Speaker 3: And I think that's a lesson that I've applied to 287 00:19:40,480 --> 00:19:42,640 Speaker 3: you know, many other things in life as well. It's 288 00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:45,920 Speaker 3: like and also to my career, because you know, from 289 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 3: the outside, you know, a person's website or podcast might 290 00:19:51,280 --> 00:19:56,320 Speaker 3: look very simple and it might you know, sound great. 291 00:19:56,800 --> 00:19:59,679 Speaker 3: And I'm sure that it's also true for your podcast. 292 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,760 Speaker 3: When you listen, you have a great listening experience and 293 00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:06,639 Speaker 3: you learn a lot, but we don't know exactly what 294 00:20:06,680 --> 00:20:12,600 Speaker 3: happens behind the scenes, right, And as an aspiring podcast 295 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,600 Speaker 3: or a blogger, or any type of profession it is, 296 00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 3: we might look at it and say, well, sounds quite doable, 297 00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:23,240 Speaker 3: quite easy, right, and then we try it, and then 298 00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:26,919 Speaker 3: we figure out, well, it's actually not for me. But 299 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 3: then maybe we're one or two years down the road 300 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:33,959 Speaker 3: and we wasted a lot of time to figure out, well, 301 00:20:34,160 --> 00:20:38,920 Speaker 3: maybe that wasn't really for me. Could could have Could 302 00:20:39,000 --> 00:20:42,399 Speaker 3: we avoid that? Maybe not one hundred percent, but we 303 00:20:42,560 --> 00:20:47,880 Speaker 3: can avoid some of that by being a little bit 304 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 3: more and mindful of what things actually are behind you know, 305 00:20:56,119 --> 00:20:59,160 Speaker 3: the superficial level. So that's something that I've really learned 306 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:00,240 Speaker 3: from investing. 307 00:21:03,640 --> 00:21:07,639 Speaker 1: We will be back with Darius soon and hear about 308 00:21:07,640 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: the power of inverting questions when trying to solve problems. 309 00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:15,040 Speaker 1: And if you're looking for more tips to improve the 310 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:18,800 Speaker 1: way that you work, I write a short fortnightly newsletter 311 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,520 Speaker 1: that contains three cool things that I've discovered that help 312 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 1: me work better, which range from interesting research findings through 313 00:21:25,640 --> 00:21:28,840 Speaker 1: to gadgets and software that I'm loving. You can sign 314 00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:32,000 Speaker 1: up for that at Howiwork dot co. That's how I 315 00:21:32,040 --> 00:21:37,200 Speaker 1: Work dot co. Another thing that you've learned that you've 316 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:41,960 Speaker 1: written about is learning by inverting, which I found really interesting. 317 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:44,960 Speaker 1: Can you explain what you mean by that and how 318 00:21:45,000 --> 00:21:46,400 Speaker 1: you use that in your life. 319 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 3: Yeah, So when you invert a question, you basically look 320 00:21:52,119 --> 00:21:57,359 Speaker 3: at something you should not do or let me just 321 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:04,120 Speaker 3: give an example. So a lot of people might ask themselves, 322 00:22:04,359 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 3: how do I become successful? The thing is, in life, 323 00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:11,720 Speaker 3: there are many ways to become successful, and there are 324 00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:16,560 Speaker 3: also many definitions of success. But if we invert the 325 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,240 Speaker 3: question and if we look at the opposite of success, 326 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,879 Speaker 3: and let's say in this case, will just you know, 327 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 3: super simple say the opposite is being unsuccessful. And if 328 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:32,320 Speaker 3: you inverted and you say, well, how do I avoid 329 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 3: becoming unsuccessful? And when you look at it that way, 330 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:43,120 Speaker 3: you kind of figure out that those answers are quite straightforward. 331 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 3: And I actually learned this technique from Charlie Monger and 332 00:22:48,880 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 3: Warren Buffett, you know, two of the greatest investors of 333 00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:57,280 Speaker 3: all time. And that's a thought exercise that they would 334 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 3: apply to the companies that they wanted to invent, and 335 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:06,200 Speaker 3: by looking at are these companies doing things that might 336 00:23:06,440 --> 00:23:10,480 Speaker 3: run them into the ground. So, for example, if I 337 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:17,600 Speaker 3: ask myself how do I avoid becoming unsuccessful? I could say, well, 338 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 3: avoid being lazy, or you know, sleeping in every single day, 339 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:28,240 Speaker 3: or avoid eating a lot of junk food every single day, 340 00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:30,840 Speaker 3: or you don't have you know, all of those very 341 00:23:31,119 --> 00:23:36,360 Speaker 3: simple and straightforward things that everybody knows. But the thing 342 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,200 Speaker 3: is that often we know what's not good for us, 343 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:45,520 Speaker 3: but we we still do it. And I don't think 344 00:23:45,840 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: we do it on purpose, you know, Like I've had 345 00:23:47,600 --> 00:23:51,680 Speaker 3: many years where I would just you know, spend all 346 00:23:51,720 --> 00:23:55,760 Speaker 3: my evenings full of entertainment, and I just wasn't aware 347 00:23:56,400 --> 00:24:01,120 Speaker 3: of the alternative. I wasn't aware that some people actually 348 00:24:01,240 --> 00:24:04,680 Speaker 3: don't watch TV all evening long, right, Like they might 349 00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:08,040 Speaker 3: read a book, or you know, they might do something 350 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:12,520 Speaker 3: that they enjoy, like writing or drawing, creating art, you 351 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 3: name it. So that's how I really use inversion. If 352 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,320 Speaker 3: I really want to achieve something that's a little bit 353 00:24:20,359 --> 00:24:23,440 Speaker 3: complex and there are multiple answers, I try to look 354 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,000 Speaker 3: at the opposite and see whether that gives me a 355 00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:29,200 Speaker 3: little bit more clarity, and if I can avoid the 356 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 3: bad thing, I already have better odds at making sure 357 00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 3: that I do succeed. 358 00:24:38,600 --> 00:24:41,359 Speaker 1: Something that I always I am going to ask people 359 00:24:41,359 --> 00:24:46,480 Speaker 1: that like immerse the immerse themselves in productivity, is what 360 00:24:47,280 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: software or apps do you find incredibly useful that perhaps 361 00:24:52,160 --> 00:24:56,960 Speaker 1: some of the lesson mentioned or lesser known apps or software. 362 00:24:57,400 --> 00:24:59,840 Speaker 3: The number one app that I use for my productivity 363 00:24:59,880 --> 00:25:05,160 Speaker 3: is still my calendar and my journal, and I do 364 00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:10,400 Speaker 3: think that there are certain ways that we can use 365 00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:14,960 Speaker 3: our calendar. There are maybe less straightforward. So for example, 366 00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,440 Speaker 3: most people use their calendar to schedule meetings with others. 367 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:24,320 Speaker 3: I really like to use my calendar to schedule meetings 368 00:25:24,359 --> 00:25:29,640 Speaker 3: with myself, right and make sure that I remind myself 369 00:25:29,680 --> 00:25:32,280 Speaker 3: of the things that matter to me. Now, that doesn't 370 00:25:32,560 --> 00:25:38,360 Speaker 3: mean that I plan every single day from morning until evening, 371 00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:43,800 Speaker 3: but I do schedule some of the important things on 372 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,600 Speaker 3: my calendar and just use it as a reminder. And 373 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,960 Speaker 3: also I want to share that when I do my 374 00:25:50,560 --> 00:25:53,400 Speaker 3: journaling in the evening, I also open up my calendar 375 00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:56,439 Speaker 3: at the same time, because then I instantly get a 376 00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:59,480 Speaker 3: view of what I'm going to do the next day 377 00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:04,280 Speaker 3: or the rest of the week, and together with my calendar, 378 00:26:04,680 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 3: I really sit down and do the journaling. 379 00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:12,879 Speaker 1: I've heard that you recommend ulysses for article writing. Is 380 00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: that still the software that you use? 381 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:20,120 Speaker 3: Yes, definitely, I use that app for my writing. I've 382 00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:25,240 Speaker 3: used Word in the past like almost everybody else, because 383 00:26:25,280 --> 00:26:29,120 Speaker 3: it's the go to writing or has been the go 384 00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:32,959 Speaker 3: to writing app for many years. But what I didn't 385 00:26:33,119 --> 00:26:38,240 Speaker 3: like about Word is that it's very difficult to navigate 386 00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,160 Speaker 3: when you are writing multiple articles, or if you have 387 00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:48,320 Speaker 3: a project that consists of multiple folders and notes and 388 00:26:48,480 --> 00:26:54,640 Speaker 3: that type of work. So I was looking for an alternative, 389 00:26:54,800 --> 00:26:58,159 Speaker 3: and I looked at a lot of different writing apps, 390 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:04,000 Speaker 3: but I really found ulysses the most helpful because it 391 00:27:04,200 --> 00:27:08,199 Speaker 3: really almost works like a note taking app where you 392 00:27:08,320 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 3: have like a sidebar with your folders. And you know, 393 00:27:12,840 --> 00:27:15,679 Speaker 3: the way that I like to organize my writing is 394 00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,600 Speaker 3: that I have a folder for drafts, and within those drafts, 395 00:27:19,680 --> 00:27:23,359 Speaker 3: I have separate files for every single article idea that 396 00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:26,800 Speaker 3: I have. But in words, I had to open up, 397 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,520 Speaker 3: you know, every time a new file and all these 398 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:35,359 Speaker 3: types of windows on my screen. But I don't like that, 399 00:27:36,440 --> 00:27:40,040 Speaker 3: and ulysses kind of solves that because you have just 400 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 3: one window and you can just select whatever sheet you 401 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,080 Speaker 3: want to write, whatever sheet you want to work on. 402 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:53,400 Speaker 3: And it also gives me a good view of every 403 00:27:53,800 --> 00:27:58,360 Speaker 3: thing that I have open, and I can really quickly 404 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:05,000 Speaker 3: change from having a view of the sidebar to just 405 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:08,840 Speaker 3: a focused view on the document itself. And it's super clean, 406 00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:13,520 Speaker 3: so you just see text and that's it, no fancy 407 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 3: menus or anything else. So yeah, it's really my favorite 408 00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:18,840 Speaker 3: writing app. 409 00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:22,480 Speaker 1: I've heard of it before, and I feel like I 410 00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:24,480 Speaker 1: tried it maybe a couple of years ago, but it 411 00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:27,520 Speaker 1: didn't stick. For you've inspired me to give that a 412 00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:31,639 Speaker 1: go again. Now for people that have been listening and 413 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:34,560 Speaker 1: they want to consume more of your work, and you're 414 00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:37,159 Speaker 1: thinking and you're writing, what is the best way for 415 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:37,919 Speaker 1: people to do that. 416 00:28:38,800 --> 00:28:41,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, So the best way is to go to my website, 417 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:47,240 Speaker 3: theresforout dot com, and I have a tab called best 418 00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,760 Speaker 3: articles and you can find some of the most read 419 00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:53,440 Speaker 3: articles on the website, or you can just browse through 420 00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 3: the archive as well. 421 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:59,280 Speaker 1: Amazing, and I highly recommend that to anyone listening. 422 00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:00,680 Speaker 2: I have spent. 423 00:29:00,800 --> 00:29:04,479 Speaker 1: Hours and hours on your site and there's just so 424 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:08,680 Speaker 1: much great stuff there. So, Darius, I'm so appreciative of 425 00:29:08,720 --> 00:29:12,680 Speaker 1: you taking the time out of your schedule to have 426 00:29:12,720 --> 00:29:15,240 Speaker 1: a chat to me. It's just been such a pleasure 427 00:29:15,280 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: digging deeper into just some of the things that I've 428 00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:21,840 Speaker 1: read through what you've put out into the world. 429 00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:24,720 Speaker 3: So thank you, Yeah, thank you for having me. I 430 00:29:24,760 --> 00:29:27,840 Speaker 3: really appreciate it. And I also really appreciate your podcast 431 00:29:27,920 --> 00:29:32,040 Speaker 3: and interviewing people about how they work. It's something that 432 00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,120 Speaker 3: I've always been interested in it as well and really 433 00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 3: happy to be a part of it. 434 00:29:37,040 --> 00:29:39,200 Speaker 2: I really loved chatting to Darius. 435 00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:42,640 Speaker 1: It's always interesting when you've read so much of someone's 436 00:29:42,680 --> 00:29:44,640 Speaker 1: work and you get the chance to talk to them. 437 00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:48,400 Speaker 1: And I'm definitely going to be thinking more about the 438 00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 1: six spokes theory. I definitely overweight work in my life, 439 00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: perhaps not surprisingly, and it really made me think about 440 00:29:56,800 --> 00:30:00,239 Speaker 1: how I could invest more energy into other parts that 441 00:30:00,440 --> 00:30:04,760 Speaker 1: can sometimes be neglected in my life. Now, if you 442 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,160 Speaker 1: are not a subscriber or follower of How I Work, 443 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:10,720 Speaker 1: now might be the day to hit subscribe or follow, 444 00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:15,200 Speaker 1: because next week I've got Dan Pink talking about how 445 00:30:15,240 --> 00:30:17,840 Speaker 1: he has used the power of regret in his own 446 00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:21,680 Speaker 1: life to propel him forward. And it was such a 447 00:30:21,680 --> 00:30:24,640 Speaker 1: privilege having Dan back on the show, having interviewed him 448 00:30:24,680 --> 00:30:27,520 Speaker 1: a couple of years ago, and I think you will 449 00:30:27,520 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: get a lot of gems from that interview. How I 450 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,440 Speaker 1: Work is produced by Inventium with production support from. 451 00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:35,520 Speaker 2: Dead Set Studios. 452 00:30:35,840 --> 00:30:39,040 Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was Liam Riordan, and thank 453 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:41,320 Speaker 1: you to Martin Nimber who did the audio mix and 454 00:30:41,600 --> 00:30:44,320 Speaker 1: makes everything sound better than it would have otherwise. 455 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:45,600 Speaker 2: See you next time.