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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS.

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Speaker 1: Oh now it makes sense. Good morning and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the Daily OS. It's Friday, the eleventh of April.

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Speaker 2: I'm Billy fitz Simon's I'm Zara Seidler.

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Speaker 1: We have a little bit of a different episode for

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Speaker 1: you today. We are breaking the fourth wall and telling

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Speaker 1: you the story of how we have tried and tried

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Speaker 1: to get Opposition leader Peter Dunnan to sit with The

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Speaker 1: Daily OS for a one on one interview in the

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Speaker 1: lead up to the election, which is now just three

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Speaker 1: weeks away. Now, our initial goal was actually a little

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Speaker 1: bit more ambitious than a sit down interview, but we

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Speaker 1: will tell you more about that in a moment. The

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Speaker 1: reason we wanted to explain this today is because firstly,

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Speaker 1: we do get asked quite often about how these interviews

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Speaker 1: come about, and we also wanted to have an honest

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Speaker 1: conversation about what the Daily Oz's goal is this election

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Speaker 1: and some of the preconceived ideas that come with working

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Speaker 1: in youth media.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so Billy, we're going to start by sharing the

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Speaker 2: story and I guess the lead up to where we

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Speaker 2: find ourselves today, which is going on our podcast and

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Speaker 2: talking about our efforts to get Peter Dudden. But this

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Speaker 2: story didn't start today, certainly didn't start this week. It

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Speaker 2: didn't even start this year. So talk to me about

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Speaker 2: what happens last September.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so last September is when we first sent an

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Speaker 1: email to the Labor Party and the Liberal Party requesting

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Speaker 1: for a leader's debate. You have to remember that. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: now we know when the election is, but then we

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Speaker 1: didn't know if it was going to be called basically

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Speaker 1: any day, so we really had to be very prepared, YEP.

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Speaker 1: And our pitch to the headquarters and that just for context,

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Speaker 1: is who you have to pitch to for something like this.

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Speaker 1: Our pitch to those parties basically just explained that TDA

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Speaker 1: wants to hold the first ever leader's debate hosted by

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Speaker 1: a youth company. Now, for contexts, leader's debates usually happen

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Speaker 1: every single election cycle in Australia. They're always between the

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Speaker 1: leader of the Liberal Party and the leader of the

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Speaker 1: Labor Party. This time that is, of course Peter Dudden

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Speaker 1: for the Liberal Party and Anthony Albanzi for Labor and

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Speaker 1: usually there's about three of them. I've heard that Peter

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Speaker 1: Dunden is actually a requesting for there to be four

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Speaker 1: of them this election. We can arrange that, and it's

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Speaker 1: up to the parties to agree on which networks they

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Speaker 1: will do that debate with.

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Speaker 2: Which in and of itself is quite an interesting process

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Speaker 2: because these are two essentially warring parties who have to

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Speaker 2: come together, put their differences aside, and agree on a

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Speaker 2: time and a network that they're going to debate on exactly.

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Speaker 1: And we know that it's quite the process that starts

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Speaker 1: months and months, possibly even up to a year before

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Speaker 1: the actual election. And it's because, like you said, you

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Speaker 1: obviously do need to align so many different schedules and

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Speaker 1: competing priorities for it all to fall into place, not

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Speaker 1: just once, but three times now. These debates always happen

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Speaker 1: on a television network, but it could also be in

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Speaker 1: collaboration with a newspaper. But they are always streamed on

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Speaker 1: TV networks, and they're very big in US presidential campaigns.

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Speaker 1: You possibly remember the debate between Donald Trump and Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: I do recall that famously led to Joe Biden dropping

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Speaker 1: out of the presidential campaign because his performance was considered

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Speaker 1: to be so bad during that debate. So they are

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Speaker 1: a really big deal. And according to our research, and

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Speaker 1: we have looked far and wide, there has never been

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Speaker 1: a Leader's debate that has been hosted by a youth

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Speaker 1: media company in Australia, and so that is why we

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Speaker 1: wanted to do the very first one. And we wanted

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Speaker 1: the Leader's Debate to be really specifically talking directly to

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Speaker 1: young people, which is obviously our audience, and that was

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Speaker 1: our pitch. That's what we put together in our email

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Speaker 1: last September.

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Speaker 2: I vividly recall you putting time in my diary for

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Speaker 2: a meeting and sitting in our office one afternoon and

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Speaker 2: you saying, all right, I've got a pitch. You've got

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Speaker 2: to listen to it, and I'm going to make it happen.

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Speaker 2: And as you said, that was, you know, towards the

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Speaker 2: back end of last year, and I remember us talking

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Speaker 2: about the fact that you know, we had only ever

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Speaker 2: seen debates on TV, that there wasn't this movement towards

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Speaker 2: hosting them in any other forums. But you didn't seem

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Speaker 2: deterred by that.

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Speaker 1: No, I remember saying, I think we could get Netflix

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Speaker 1: on ball. I do recall so my ambitions looking back

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Speaker 1: were extremely high. Love it, and I did have genuine hope,

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Speaker 1: which perhaps was very naive of me, but that is okay.

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Speaker 1: But I do think it's an interesting point that they

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Speaker 1: have always been held on television networks because obviously we

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Speaker 1: know over the past decade or over the past twenty years,

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Speaker 1: the media landscape has changed so drastically, and so have

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Speaker 1: viewing habits, and so many people today are watching long

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Speaker 1: form videos not on TV, but also on streaming platforms,

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Speaker 1: or there's YouTube, or there's so many other social media platforms.

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Speaker 1: And we really wanted to do a leader's debate that

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Speaker 1: matched the times, yeah, and wasn't just on a TV network,

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Speaker 1: and there were so many different ways we thought that

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Speaker 1: we could do that, and so that was also in

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Speaker 1: the pitch.

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Speaker 2: Okay, And so we did have these conversations. We definitely

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Speaker 2: had warm leads with the Labor Party. It was more

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Speaker 2: difficult to get through to the Liberal Party, but we

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Speaker 2: absolutely kept trying. And then, Billy, you interviewed the Prime

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Speaker 2: Minister in February this year.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So the Prime Minister came in. He was sitting

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Speaker 1: exactly where you are now, Zara, and keep de set

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Speaker 1: warm for me, and we did our interview and at

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Speaker 1: the end, he said that he would come back during

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Speaker 1: their campaign, and I remember thinking, this is my moment.

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Speaker 1: I have to get the Prime Minister to say on

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Speaker 1: the record that he would agree to do a leader's

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Speaker 1: debate that is moderated by TDA. This is how that went.

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Speaker 1: You've been very generous with your time. Thank you so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us, Thank you for having me once again.

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Speaker 1: Look forward to coming back during the campaign. I hope

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Speaker 1: we can do a leader's debate. That's all we're billing for.

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Speaker 2: That would be good. I'm up for that.

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Speaker 1: If not all turn up anyway, we've got it on record,

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Speaker 1: thank you. And so we had it on camera. I remember,

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Speaker 1: as you can hear in that cliff, I was very excited.

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Speaker 1: We had it on record, and we're one of two yes,

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Speaker 1: and we felt suddenly we felt so close, but we

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Speaker 1: also felt so far because we still needed the opposition

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Speaker 1: leader to agree, and so we kept trying, and we

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Speaker 1: kept trying. Sara, you tried many times, you called, you

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Speaker 1: texted thread.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think that I sent more pieces of communication

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Speaker 2: to the Liberal Party in those intervening couple of weeks

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Speaker 2: than I ever have to anyone before. And I was

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Speaker 2: really trying to make the point that it was so

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Speaker 2: important for young people to hear from both sides, and

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Speaker 2: that we had just interviewed the minister and now was

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Speaker 2: the opportunity for our audience to equally hear from who

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Speaker 2: could be the next prime minister exactly.

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Speaker 1: And I think eventually, after we were left on red

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Speaker 1: one too many times, our ego was one too many times,

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Speaker 1: we did decide to pivot to requesting for just a

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Speaker 1: one on one interview instead of the leader's debate. Maybe

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Speaker 1: next election we'll try for that again, but for now

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Speaker 1: we were happy with just a one on one interview.

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Speaker 1: We did finally get an answer, but that answer was

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Speaker 1: a no. We actually got a firm no.

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Speaker 2: It was a no with very little wiggle room and

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Speaker 2: no justification.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, but if we've learned anything working in media, it's

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Speaker 1: that you can't take note for an answer, and so

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Speaker 1: we did hope that when the election was called, things

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Speaker 1: would hopefully change. In the meantime, though, we decided to

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Speaker 1: shift our focus again and we decided if we couldn't

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Speaker 1: get done and we still needed to interview a senior

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Speaker 1: politician in the coalition, and that was really important for

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Speaker 1: us because aim is to provide balanced, non partisan information

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Speaker 1: for young people, and we really try to not lean

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Speaker 1: either way in our reporting. But to do that, we

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Speaker 1: do need both sides to play ball with us and

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Speaker 1: to engage with us. And we can't do that if

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Speaker 1: it is only one side of politics that is willing

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Speaker 1: to engage with us.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, if we're to put all the cards

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Speaker 2: on the table here, youth media does have a reputation

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Speaker 2: of being progressive leaning if we look at the market

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Speaker 2: more broadly. You know, we know young people tend to

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Speaker 2: vote progressive, and we have seen youth media try to

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Speaker 2: really cater to that. When we entered the market, we

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Speaker 2: said we're not going to do that. We're going to

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Speaker 2: try be different and we're going to try this really

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Speaker 2: non partisan approach. But it's made very difficult if we

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Speaker 2: can only consistently engage with one side of politics, because

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Speaker 2: then it creates this perception that we are only open

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Speaker 2: to talking to them or only open to platforming one

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Speaker 2: side of politics, which is absolutely not the case and

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Speaker 2: is why you shut down with Angus Taylor.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so we did get the shadow treasurer as Taylor,

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Speaker 1: So just for context, he is the person who would

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Speaker 1: be responsible for managing the economy if the coalition does

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Speaker 1: get into power, and we thought he was the perfect

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Speaker 1: person to interview because we know that cost of living

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Speaker 1: will be the top issue that many young people are

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Speaker 1: basing their votes on this election, and that's based on

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Speaker 1: the research and the surveys that TDA has done. And

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Speaker 1: so I did that interview last Friday, and at the

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Speaker 1: end I decided to ask why he thought that his leader,

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Speaker 1: Peter Dutton wouldn't speak to us. Here's how that went.

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Speaker 1: Your leader Peter Dutton has rejected our request for an interview.

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Speaker 1: Why do you think that is? Oh, you'd have to ask,

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Speaker 1: I've tried, you won't answer.

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Speaker 2: I'll see if I can.

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Speaker 1: Help with that. And so that seemed slightly promising that

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Speaker 1: one of Dudden's most senior colleagues would speak to him

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Speaker 1: about potentially coming on with us. We did also follow

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Speaker 1: up with Peter Dudden's team again, but yet haven't heard

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Speaker 1: back since.

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Speaker 2: No, And so it was at that point, you know,

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Speaker 2: we're now three weeks out from the election. We hadn't

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Speaker 2: had any response. We've been trying these private communication channels

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Speaker 2: for like seven eight months at this point, and we decided,

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Speaker 2: you know what, why not put out a public request.

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Speaker 2: We have a platform with TDA, and we figured perhaps

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Speaker 2: if we had this conversation with our audience, there would

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Speaker 2: potentially be a different outcome.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and this was something that really felt like our

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Speaker 1: last resort and it's something that you have to think

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Speaker 1: about because we really needed to toe the line carefully

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Speaker 1: because we didn't want to annoy his team, but we

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Speaker 1: also wanted to try as hard as we can to

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Speaker 1: use as many resources as we can to get this

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Speaker 1: interview because as I think we've made very clear, we

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Speaker 1: really do want our audience to hear directly from the

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Speaker 1: opposition leader, and we really want to make sure that

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Speaker 1: our news platform is balanced. But again, we can't do

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Speaker 1: that if it's only one side of politics that is

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Speaker 1: willing to engage with us. So yes, we put out

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Speaker 1: our post and we asked our audience to tag Dudden

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Speaker 1: in the comments. At last count I think it's had

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Speaker 1: nearly one five hundred comments, so there were a lot

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Speaker 1: of tags there. But yeah, haven't heard from his team since,

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Speaker 1: and again we have sent more messages since. We also

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Speaker 1: published that on the night of the first leader's debate

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Speaker 1: to kind of bring this full circle. So it was

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Speaker 1: the first time that Anthony Albanezi and Peter Dunnen were

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Speaker 1: meeting for a leader's debate, that was on Sky News,

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Speaker 1: which is of course a television network. It's also a

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Speaker 1: paid channel, so you know, not a lot of young people,

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Speaker 1: let alone people at all, could access watching that debate.

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Speaker 1: And so again it just proved why something like the

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Speaker 1: Daily OS is so important because it's free for everyone.

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Speaker 1: It's meeting people where they are. Again, we know that

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Speaker 1: a lot of people aren't watching television, they're on social media,

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Speaker 1: which just happens to be where we are too.

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Speaker 2: It does, indeed, and I do think it's important to

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Speaker 2: point out that there'll be other interviews hosted on different channels.

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Speaker 2: We know, of course the public broadcast of the ABC

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Speaker 2: they will be hosting a debate between the two leaders

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Speaker 2: that will be free to air, free for everyone to watch.

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Speaker 2: But yet we do think that speaking directly to a

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Speaker 2: youth audience, bringing the information directly to them, is so pivotal.

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Speaker 2: During the election, where gen Z and millennials are out

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Speaker 2: numbering baby boomers for the very first time, it is

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Speaker 2: actually more important than ever that leaders engage directly with

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Speaker 2: this voting cohort and just Finally, Billy, we've just wrapped

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Speaker 2: up another week of the election campaign. We are nearing

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Speaker 2: that May third date so soon.

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Speaker 1: So so I don't know how in how three weeks I.

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Speaker 2: Know, I know we've consistently been saying, Oh, it's coming,

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Speaker 2: it's coming, It's here. I do want to end by

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Speaker 2: asking how TDA more generally is approaching this election campaign.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So, like we've talked about, we always try to

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Speaker 1: be as balanced as possible, and what that looks like

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Speaker 1: on an everyday basis is every time we talk about

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Speaker 1: an energy policy, for example, or a cost of living policy,

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Speaker 1: we'll explain what the policy is, and then we'll explain

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Speaker 1: what the opposition or what the government if it's an

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Speaker 1: opposition's policy, thinks about that policy. And then of course

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Speaker 1: we'll also include the opinions of minor parties and independents

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Speaker 1: if they're relevant to that specific policy. So kind of

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Speaker 1: wanting to provide the facts and then provide what all

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Speaker 1: of the different sides are saying about that or about

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Speaker 1: how they would change that specific issue that we are

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Speaker 1: talking about. And then beyond those kind of explainers, we

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Speaker 1: are also sending Harry, who is our political journalist and Aula,

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Speaker 1: who is our video editor who's also producing this podcast

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Speaker 1: right now, Hi Ala. They will be going on the

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Speaker 1: campaign trail, so they are going on the government's campaign

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Speaker 1: trail with Anthony Albanzi and then they are also going

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Speaker 1: on Peter Dunnan's campaign trails, so that will be super

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Speaker 1: exciting for both of them and for TDA to be there.

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Speaker 1: I know that both sides of Parliament are trying to

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Speaker 1: embrace new media more and so yeah, that will be

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Speaker 1: exciting for us to be there.

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Speaker 2: So during that time we'll be bringing all of you

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Speaker 2: explainers on preferential voting, on the key seats that might

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Speaker 2: determine this election, on what we expect based on the polling,

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Speaker 2: and a whole range of other explainers. There's so much

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Speaker 2: to break down, and I know a lot of our

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Speaker 2: listeners might be voting in their very first election and

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Speaker 2: that that's a really daunting task. So we are absolutely

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Speaker 2: here to walk by your side throughout the next three

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Speaker 2: weeks and hopefully it makes sense of it all. And

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Speaker 2: just a final note that if anyone in Peter Dubban's

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Speaker 2: team is listening today, we do hope that you hear

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Speaker 2: this invitation to please come and join us for an interview.

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Speaker 2: We believe that democracy is about engaging directly and that

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Speaker 2: young people deserve to hear from you, so we look

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Speaker 2: forward to hopefully chatting down the road.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much to everyone who has listened to

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Speaker 1: this episode of The Daily os. It felt a little

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Speaker 1: bit self indulgent, but I hope that you did learn

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Speaker 1: something about how all of this works. We'll be back

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Speaker 1: again this afternoon with your evening headlines. Well, then, have

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Speaker 1: a great day. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm

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Speaker 1: a proud Arunda Bungelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl Country. The

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Speaker 1: Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the

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Speaker 1: lands of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all

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Speaker 1: Aboriginal and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay our

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Speaker 1: respects to the first peoples of these countries, both past

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Speaker 1: and present.