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Speaker 1: Good morning and welcome to the Daily oz. In is Thursday,

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Speaker 1: the sixteenth of June. Hope you've had a good week

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Speaker 1: so far. On today's podcast, we're going to be talking

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Speaker 1: to Tom Crowley about this crazy story about our power prices,

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Speaker 1: our energy grids, calls for us to turn off our heaters,

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Speaker 1: the whole lot. All will be answered by somebody who's

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Speaker 1: quickly becoming our in house energy expert. But first, Zara,

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Speaker 1: let's start with the big stories of the day.

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Speaker 2: All eyes were on the Fair Work Commission yesterday when

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Speaker 2: it announced that the minimum wage in Australia will be

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Speaker 2: increased by five point two percent from the first of

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Speaker 2: July this year. Prominis Anthony Abernezi welcomed the Commission's decision

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Speaker 2: but said that there was more work to do to

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Speaker 2: help Australians with economic security amid those rising prices.

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Speaker 1: Federal politicians will receive their biggest pay rise since twenty

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Speaker 1: twelve from the first of July this year as well.

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Speaker 1: It's a big day for everyone. The Independent Renunerration Tribunial

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Speaker 1: handed down a two point seventy five percent pay rise

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Speaker 1: after agreeing to a wage freeze in twenty twenty twenty one.

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Speaker 1: Meaning that salaries didn't change during that time.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, And I think an important note on that one

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Speaker 2: that there are actually no politicians who form part of

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Speaker 2: that board, So that's an independent statutory body who made

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Speaker 2: the decision about the politician's pay rise. If we move

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Speaker 2: now to overseas news, A flight that was set to

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Speaker 2: deport up to seven asylum seekers from the UK to

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Speaker 2: Rwanda was stopped this week following an intervention from the

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Speaker 2: European Court of Human Rights. A judgment from the ECHR

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Speaker 2: halting one of the passenger's deportations arrived three hours before

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Speaker 2: the plane was to depart, with all the passengers leaving

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Speaker 2: the plane fifteen minutes before takeoff.

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Speaker 1: And today's good news, A species of tortoise believes to

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Speaker 1: be extinct for more than a century was found alive

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Speaker 1: on the Galapicus Islands this week. Maybe it just needed

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Speaker 1: to come out of its shell. Princeton University research is

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Speaker 1: proved that a female tortoise called Fernanda was related to

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Speaker 1: the Fantastic giant tortoise species, which was discovered in nine

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Speaker 1: Joined today on the podcast by political journalist That Is

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Speaker 1: Daily os Tom Crowley. Now, Tom, when you've been on

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Speaker 1: the podcast with me. Over the last couple of months.

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Speaker 1: We have talked about power every single time, but it's

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Speaker 1: been political power. Today we're going to be talking about

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Speaker 1: a totally different type of power, the power grid, and

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Speaker 1: how we actually power our homes. There's been a lot

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Speaker 1: of news about our power supply in the last few days.

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Speaker 1: I think the best place to start is you explaining

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Speaker 1: how our power system actually works. Can you do that?

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Speaker 3: I can certainly give it a go, Sam. It is

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Speaker 3: a tricky one. So what we're talking about here is

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Speaker 3: the electricity system for every state except Wa. Wa does

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Speaker 3: its own thing, and I think maybe we just leave

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Speaker 3: it out of this conversation. But for all the other states,

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Speaker 3: they use something called the national Electricity market. Now it's national,

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Speaker 3: it's sort of centrally operated, but it relies on a

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Speaker 3: bunch of individual what we call generators. It might be

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Speaker 3: a coal plant, it might be a gas plant, it

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Speaker 3: might be a solar farm or a wind farm. They

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Speaker 3: all generate power, they put it into that system, and

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Speaker 3: then it comes out of that system into our homes. Now,

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Speaker 3: rather than just kind of all of that being run

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Speaker 3: by the government, which is one way of running the system. Instead,

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Speaker 3: those generators sell the power that they create and it's

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Speaker 3: bought by retailers. So the retailers are the people that

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Speaker 3: you will have your gas bill or your electricity bill

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Speaker 3: set up with. They're the people who you pay for

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Speaker 3: the gas. They buy that gas from the generator. So

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Speaker 3: we have a market rather than a government run system

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Speaker 3: for our electricity. It's all coming out of the same place.

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Speaker 3: It's well coming out of the same kind of system

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Speaker 3: of pipes or wires or however it is that it works,

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Speaker 3: but it's bought and sold. Now in the middle of

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Speaker 3: these generators and these retailers sits the government umpire. They

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Speaker 3: they're called the market operator. The acronym is AEMO Australian

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Speaker 3: Energy Market Operator AEMO. They're a very important player at

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Speaker 3: the moment and they're responsible for making sure that this

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Speaker 3: market functions and they've got lots of different powers for

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Speaker 3: how they can do that. But the most important thing

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Speaker 3: that they do generally is they oversee what's called the

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Speaker 3: spot price, which is the price that changes every five

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Speaker 3: minutes that they set essentially the price at which power

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Speaker 3: is bought and sold between these generators and these retailers.

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Speaker 3: And that spot price is based on how much power

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Speaker 3: we want, so at a time when we want lots

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Speaker 3: of power, perhaps it's really cold and everyone wants to

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Speaker 3: put their heaters on, as is the case this week,

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Speaker 3: that price gets higher, which means that the generators are

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Speaker 3: more incentive to put electricity into the system. It's essentially

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Speaker 3: a sending a signal saying we need lots of power,

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Speaker 3: so you'll get paid more for it. AEMO is in

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Speaker 3: charge of keeping an eye on that price. Now, when

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Speaker 3: the price gets really, really, really high, AEMO caps it.

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Speaker 3: It's capped at three hundred dollars per megal whate hour.

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Speaker 3: That's not a figure that's going to mean very much

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Speaker 3: to anyone, but they cap it for the purposes of

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Speaker 3: basically making sure that that you don't get kind of

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Speaker 3: exorbitantly high prices. What we've seen in the last week

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Speaker 3: is that that cap has been exceeded in several states,

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Speaker 3: basically because it's very cold everywhere at the moment and

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Speaker 3: everyone wants to use their heaters. We're also in winter,

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Speaker 3: which is a time when the solar that we have

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Speaker 3: in the system is not kind of producing as much

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Speaker 3: as it would in summer, and maybe most importantly, about

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Speaker 3: a quarter of our coal generators are down at the moment.

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Speaker 3: They're either down for scheduled maintenance or I think one

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Speaker 3: of them exploded. In Queensland, there are lots of different

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Speaker 3: problems with our coal infrastructure. We've got a whole lot

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Speaker 3: of power offline at the same time as we will

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Speaker 3: really want to use our heaters. That's creating this kind

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Speaker 3: of problem and it pushed the price up it well

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Speaker 3: above the cap. Now this is where things get a

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Speaker 3: little complicated. He's still with me, So I know I'm

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Speaker 3: sort of talking for a long time here, but we're

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Speaker 3: nearly at the light at the end of the tunnel.

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Speaker 3: I've got some power left. Let's keep going excellent. So

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Speaker 3: what happens when you get above that cap. We're in

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Speaker 3: this period everyone really wants the power. Amo said, whoa, whah, whoah.

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Speaker 3: We can't let it get that high. We've capped the

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Speaker 3: price at three hundred dollars per men.

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Speaker 2: What hour?

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Speaker 3: Now the generators say, well, if you're going to cap

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Speaker 3: that price, it's not profitable for us to put power

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Speaker 3: into the system as much as you need. You're saying

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Speaker 3: you need all of this power. The price that should

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Speaker 3: let us do that is maybe it's four hundred or

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Speaker 3: five hundred and six hundred. You're only going to pay

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Speaker 3: us three hundred. It's not profitable for us to do that,

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Speaker 3: so we're not going to give you as much power

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Speaker 3: as you need. Of course, that's not exactly how the

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Speaker 3: conversation goes. How it goes in reality is each little

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Speaker 3: power generator says, is how much power we're going to

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Speaker 3: give you at that price. But what has happened over

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Speaker 3: the last week in this situation is that that's ended

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Speaker 3: up with a shortfall not enough power. Now, AEMO has

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Speaker 3: some things that it can do at that point. It

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Speaker 3: can basically order the generators and say, look, we don't

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Speaker 3: care if it's profitable or not. We're just going to

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Speaker 3: require you to put some power into the system. And

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Speaker 3: if that happens, and if those generators lose money, then

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Speaker 3: they get compensated for that. And that's kind of what

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Speaker 3: we're seeing at the moment. So yesterday we had AEMO

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Speaker 3: announced that it was basically suspending the market all together

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Speaker 3: and it was essentially just going to direct traffic until

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Speaker 3: further notice and basically just tell the generators how much

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Speaker 3: that they have to produce, and then it can figure

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Speaker 3: out the financial compensation after that that's kind of the

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Speaker 3: situation that we're in. It's all a little bit technical, hopefully,

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Speaker 3: and at this stage we have no reason to believe

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Speaker 3: that that's going to mean blackouts for any of us.

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Speaker 3: But I think that this is kind of, like I mean,

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Speaker 3: it's a pretty confusing system. I think we're all learning

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Speaker 3: a little bit how this system works. I've learned a

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Speaker 3: bit about it this week. It just sort of shows

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Speaker 3: us kind of how fragile our energy market is at

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Speaker 3: the moment, and how fragile this position is going to be,

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Speaker 3: especially in this cold winter.

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Speaker 1: So here's the point that I'm really struggling with, and

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Speaker 1: I'm in your boat, right. I'm trying to get my

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Speaker 1: head around this as quickly as I can to understand it,

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Speaker 1: both for our audience, but but also for my own interests.

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Speaker 1: Isn't it cold every winter? Don't we have this kind

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Speaker 1: of thing happen all the time? Do you put it

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Speaker 1: down to the adages of those power stations?

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Speaker 3: I think so. So the phrase that the politicians keep

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Speaker 3: using is perfect storm to describe what we're happening at

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Speaker 3: the moment where you've got a lot of problems at once.

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Speaker 3: You've got all of these coal outages. So again, twenty

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Speaker 3: five percent five percent of coal plants that we have

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Speaker 3: in Australia are not doing anything at the moment. Essentially,

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Speaker 3: I think that that's kind of roughly a fair description

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Speaker 3: of what's happening. That's pretty extraordinary. And then you know,

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Speaker 3: we know that kind of with solar. Until we're able

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Speaker 3: to build really good storage, which we don't have yet,

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Speaker 3: then that solar power is not going to be a

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Speaker 3: strong in winter either, so that's another problem. And then

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Speaker 3: you've got this gas problem.

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Speaker 2: Now.

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Speaker 3: I spoke about this on the podcast last week, but basically,

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Speaker 3: kind of gas is very high demand all around the

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Speaker 3: world at the moment, and you know that means that

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Speaker 3: there's sort of some supply issues here at home. And basically,

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Speaker 3: you know, we've been asking gas to do a lot

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Speaker 3: more heavy lifting because of all of these coal problems,

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Speaker 3: and that's putting strain on that as well. So all

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Speaker 3: of our different sources of power at the moment have

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Speaker 3: kind of been faltering at the same time, and that's

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Speaker 3: part of why we get here. But I think what

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Speaker 3: it speaks to, maybe what's the really significant thing this

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Speaker 3: shows is how poorly prepared the system is to scale

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Speaker 3: towards more renewables. And this is where all of the

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Speaker 3: kind of independent experts and EMO and the government are

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Speaker 3: kind of all saying the same thing, which is that really,

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Speaker 3: you know, there's no short term fixed to this. But

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Speaker 3: the real problem is that we know that renewables with

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Speaker 3: the right storage and with all of the right kind

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Speaker 3: of system in place, tend to be more reliable as

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Speaker 3: well as being more sustainable. We also know, for emissions reasons,

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Speaker 3: kind of everyone is at least in theory on on

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Speaker 3: board with the idea that we're supposed to get to

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Speaker 3: net zero missions by twenty fifty. That's going to require

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Speaker 3: transitioning out of coal and gas. The coal and gas

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Speaker 3: companies know this. All sides of politics in their stated

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Speaker 3: policy positions kind of recognize this, but the steps to

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Speaker 3: put that transition into place haven't really been there yet.

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Speaker 3: And now we get to these sort of situations like

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Speaker 3: this winter, and we might get kind of you know,

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Speaker 3: hot summers and other kind of issues like this that

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Speaker 3: come up. We're really vulnerable in these sorts of situations

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Speaker 3: to these slightly thorny issues. And so I think that

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Speaker 3: that's kind of maybe the key message that I'd focus

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Speaker 3: on this week.

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Speaker 1: And that's not unusual for trendss in lots of different

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Speaker 1: areas of major ways that economies work and society's work.

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Speaker 1: You know, the comparison that I've been thinking a lot

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Speaker 1: about this week in terms of our transition to renewables

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Speaker 1: and the pain that I guess our power grid is

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Speaker 1: feeling now, is that when there's a really useful train

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Speaker 1: line being built through a city, there's a couple of

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Speaker 1: years of construction where the traffic's going to be worse.

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Speaker 1: And I think that that's a really interesting way to

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Speaker 1: kind of frame, you know, a really based level, what

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Speaker 1: I think is in store over the next ten years

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Speaker 1: for Australia, and we're getting a little preview right now

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Speaker 1: as we're all shivering our way through this winter. Tom,

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Speaker 1: thank you so much for coming onto the podcast today

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Speaker 1: to explain this diabolical power issue. We're going to continue

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Speaker 1: to hear from a EMO. The market won't be suspended forever.

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Speaker 1: They will have to kind of snap back into gear

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Speaker 1: and we'll make sure to keep you up to speed.

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Speaker 1: Where you can find that news is over on our Instagram.

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Speaker 1: That's at the Daily Os. It's where you can get

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Speaker 1: the news throughout the day. Until then, we will speak

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Speaker 1: to you tomorrow