1 00:00:00,320 --> 00:00:03,160 Speaker 1: Police resources have been under review, as we know with 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:06,560 Speaker 1: the Kelly Report released just days ago. Mark Turner, the 3 00:00:06,559 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: Independent Member for Blaine, joins me on the line. Good 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:10,960 Speaker 1: morning to you, Mark. 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:13,320 Speaker 2: Good morning Katie. 6 00:00:13,360 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: How are you Ye're really good? 7 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:14,960 Speaker 2: Now? 8 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: What was your reaction to the report when it was 9 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:18,560 Speaker 1: released just a couple of days ago. 10 00:00:21,840 --> 00:00:25,960 Speaker 2: It's stuff we already know. Yeah, I wish I could 11 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 2: say I'm blown away and this is going to be wonderful, 12 00:00:29,760 --> 00:00:33,839 Speaker 2: but it's just not, you know, for your listeners, I 13 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:37,600 Speaker 2: think the best document that you could probably read would 14 00:00:37,600 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: be the Police Association's submission to the police review. It's 15 00:00:42,280 --> 00:00:44,959 Speaker 2: really comprehensive, covers all of the issues and doesn't beat 16 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,200 Speaker 2: around the bush. 17 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:50,680 Speaker 1: Well, we spoke, We spoke to the Police Association yesterday 18 00:00:50,720 --> 00:00:54,200 Speaker 1: and we did have a good discussion with with Nathan Finn. 19 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:56,680 Speaker 1: And I suppose, you know, like you touched on, there's 20 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: a lot of stuff in there that we already we 21 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:03,120 Speaker 1: already know, particularly if you've read those Police Associations surveys 22 00:01:03,640 --> 00:01:06,440 Speaker 1: in recent years as well. But I guess what it 23 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:10,240 Speaker 1: provides is a roadmap now for the Northern Territory government, 24 00:01:10,280 --> 00:01:15,240 Speaker 1: whoever it is, where they really have to implement these recommendations. 25 00:01:16,080 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: We said that with all the other reviews as well, Katie, 26 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:19,680 Speaker 2: and they didn't. 27 00:01:19,880 --> 00:01:22,040 Speaker 1: So what are you saying, you don't reckon they'll do it, Mark. 28 00:01:22,840 --> 00:01:25,760 Speaker 2: Well, the problem you've got and you look at things 29 00:01:25,800 --> 00:01:29,200 Speaker 2: like the recommendation for the Police Review Implementation Team and 30 00:01:29,240 --> 00:01:33,080 Speaker 2: they specifically recommended that it's done under the direction of 31 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:38,760 Speaker 2: the Commissioner of Police through the Deputy ce role. Those 32 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,399 Speaker 2: positions are paid six figure salaries to make sure that 33 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: the police force is running. And we've now got another 34 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:49,720 Speaker 2: review saying that the police force isn't running properly, but 35 00:01:49,840 --> 00:01:52,400 Speaker 2: we'll let the people who aren't properly running the police 36 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 2: force do a review of themselves. You saw a government 37 00:01:57,320 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: do this, and there was a specific reason with the 38 00:01:59,080 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: Rley review when you had the Alcohol Implementation Review Team 39 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: that it was done sitting over the top of the 40 00:02:06,520 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: agency with people from a department Chief Minister's office sticking 41 00:02:11,639 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 2: in a review team that's under the senior executive at 42 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:17,760 Speaker 2: the police force. I'd imagine we'll find that everything's fine. 43 00:02:19,480 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: So you reckon that the government's just setting themselves up 44 00:02:21,880 --> 00:02:24,880 Speaker 1: here to basically, you know, I show that there's nothing 45 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:25,519 Speaker 1: to see. 46 00:02:26,400 --> 00:02:30,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's you know, you look at the figures we've got, 47 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,919 Speaker 2: and again in the Police Association review, they've used quotes 48 00:02:36,600 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 2: from the members on the ground in an effort to 49 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 2: show this is what's actually happening, and it's not addressed 50 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:46,360 Speaker 2: in the review. The review is a shopping list of 51 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,880 Speaker 2: what police would like, and you certainly need to have that, 52 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:53,000 Speaker 2: and you need to have specific goals. But I can 53 00:02:53,040 --> 00:02:57,720 Speaker 2: tell you that recruiting an extra ten cops into TRG 54 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:03,760 Speaker 2: is not going to fix this unless we change fundamentally 55 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: how we're doing things and work smart, not hard. 56 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: Well, so in terms of I mean in terms of 57 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,160 Speaker 1: those additional numbers, like we're talking, you know, two hundred police, 58 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,320 Speaker 1: that's what the Northern Territory government had sort of preempted 59 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:20,120 Speaker 1: last week. Anyway, with that announcement, all the additional support 60 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:22,520 Speaker 1: staff as well, where do you reckon we're going to 61 00:03:22,520 --> 00:03:23,040 Speaker 1: get done? 62 00:03:24,200 --> 00:03:27,720 Speaker 2: Well, I'll give you give you an example when the 63 00:03:27,760 --> 00:03:32,120 Speaker 2: Alcohol Police Unit was created and then subsequently disbanded. Government 64 00:03:32,120 --> 00:03:35,600 Speaker 2: were funded, government funded police with additional support staff. Then 65 00:03:36,160 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: they got taken offline to do different projects and then 66 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 2: just got swallowed up by that department. And I fear 67 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 2: that that's exactly the same things that would happen. And 68 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:47,520 Speaker 2: as you're rightly pointed out, it's where are we going 69 00:03:47,520 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 2: to recruit these people from. You've got other jurisdictions who 70 00:03:50,640 --> 00:03:56,160 Speaker 2: are going back to international recruiting to try and fill vacancies. 71 00:03:56,640 --> 00:04:00,400 Speaker 2: So unless the Northern Territory is going to join SAPHOL sorry, 72 00:04:00,400 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 2: South Australia Police, w Police and Queensland Police in recruiting internationally, 73 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:06,960 Speaker 2: if they can't find the people, where are we going 74 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:07,720 Speaker 2: to find the people? 75 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:09,600 Speaker 1: Yeah? That's the worry, isn't it. And then you sort 76 00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:11,600 Speaker 1: of look at you know, you look at some of 77 00:04:11,640 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 1: the issues that we face here in the Northern Territory 78 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:15,720 Speaker 1: and I know some people may want to move here, 79 00:04:15,760 --> 00:04:18,160 Speaker 1: and we love living here. There's a reason we all 80 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:20,200 Speaker 1: love living here. But for others, you know, it can 81 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,120 Speaker 1: mean a massive step away from your family and what 82 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: you know. So I do sort of wonder how we're 83 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:28,240 Speaker 1: going to get to a point where we're able to 84 00:04:28,279 --> 00:04:33,440 Speaker 1: recruit all of those officers that have been earmarked. But 85 00:04:33,480 --> 00:04:35,279 Speaker 1: I want to ask you Mark, because it's something you 86 00:04:35,279 --> 00:04:37,280 Speaker 1: and I have spoken about before. It's something that you 87 00:04:37,400 --> 00:04:40,800 Speaker 1: have really you know, you've raised as a big issue before. 88 00:04:40,839 --> 00:04:43,920 Speaker 1: And that is well being within the Northern Territory Police Force. 89 00:04:44,360 --> 00:04:46,960 Speaker 1: We know in the review there is a look at 90 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: that well being of officers and there are a number 91 00:04:49,480 --> 00:04:53,000 Speaker 1: of recommendations including support mental health well being through the 92 00:04:53,000 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: Wellbeing Strategy of twenty twenty three to twenty seven, foster 93 00:04:56,560 --> 00:04:59,600 Speaker 1: of culture to reduce the stigma of mental health issues 94 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,160 Speaker 1: and ensure a proactive approach to welfare checks and critical 95 00:05:03,240 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: incident debriefing, as well as providing a safe and inclusive 96 00:05:06,800 --> 00:05:12,280 Speaker 1: work environment, promoting cultural responsiveness and cultural safety support enabling 97 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: a healthy work life balance, including implementing a fatigue management policy. 98 00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:21,080 Speaker 1: Do you think that's going to be enough to ensure 99 00:05:21,320 --> 00:05:24,440 Speaker 1: the well being of Northern Territory Police officers. 100 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,920 Speaker 2: It's certainly a word salad, isn't it. It is no, 101 00:05:30,920 --> 00:05:35,760 Speaker 2: it's just we need tangible actions. Again, I can go 102 00:05:35,880 --> 00:05:39,119 Speaker 2: back over the last ten years to when the Police 103 00:05:39,160 --> 00:05:41,720 Speaker 2: Social Club was taken away. The police promised that they'd 104 00:05:41,760 --> 00:05:45,440 Speaker 2: have the multipurpose facility at the Pete McCauley Center and 105 00:05:45,480 --> 00:05:47,360 Speaker 2: then weren't allowed to use it, so it was given 106 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:50,560 Speaker 2: to the college. That was years of fighting and it 107 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:54,400 Speaker 2: is the same people who made these decisions who are 108 00:05:54,440 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: currently in senior executive positions now, So why is it 109 00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 2: suddenly going to be a change in how they do 110 00:06:02,120 --> 00:06:05,960 Speaker 2: business because of the Kelly Review. You could see in 111 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:09,840 Speaker 2: the NTPA submissions. We still have the issues with communication 112 00:06:10,000 --> 00:06:13,240 Speaker 2: between HR and Gallagha Bassett or the lack thereof the insurer. 113 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 2: Police officers are writing their own return to work plans. 114 00:06:17,720 --> 00:06:20,080 Speaker 2: I know of instances where police officers have been in 115 00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:24,039 Speaker 2: mediation with the Department of the department has said we'll apologize, 116 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 2: but only on the condition that you don't tell anybody 117 00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: without having the cultural reform at the senior levels. This 118 00:06:35,720 --> 00:06:38,840 Speaker 2: is just another word saler that hopefully makes the problem 119 00:06:38,839 --> 00:06:40,159 Speaker 2: go away into laughter the election. 120 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:42,960 Speaker 1: So what do you think needs to happen as a 121 00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:46,080 Speaker 1: matter of urgency? I mean, obviously the governments they've conducted 122 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:48,279 Speaker 1: this review, they are saying that they're going to be 123 00:06:48,560 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: working through these recommendations. They've accepted fifteen of the eighteen. 124 00:06:52,240 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 1: The opposition has said the same. It doesn't sound like 125 00:06:55,000 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: you're buying it. So what do you reckon needs to happen? 126 00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:00,560 Speaker 2: Well, I'd say I doubt your lists or buy it 127 00:07:00,600 --> 00:07:02,440 Speaker 2: as well. I'll be interested if you get any text 128 00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,560 Speaker 2: saying that this is going to be great and fix everything. 129 00:07:06,200 --> 00:07:08,800 Speaker 1: I think people are very keen to see more boots 130 00:07:08,800 --> 00:07:11,000 Speaker 1: on the ground, Like they're the kind of things that 131 00:07:11,040 --> 00:07:13,120 Speaker 1: they're sort of most worried about, is whether people are 132 00:07:13,120 --> 00:07:17,120 Speaker 1: able to take their calls at the emergency communications center, 133 00:07:17,720 --> 00:07:19,880 Speaker 1: whether there's going to be enough police to go out 134 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: to the call outs that they're being called to. They're 135 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 1: the kind of real person stuff that they're worried about, 136 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:27,720 Speaker 1: and they do want to make sure that officers, you know, 137 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:32,040 Speaker 1: that their mental well being is how it needs to be. 138 00:07:33,080 --> 00:07:35,760 Speaker 2: Well, that's it. We keep breaking up police and we've 139 00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:40,000 Speaker 2: been calling for I wrote memorandums about fatigue management policy. 140 00:07:41,640 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 2: Probably back we'd be looking at ten years ago now 141 00:07:45,680 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: trying to get the department to stop doing things like 142 00:07:48,680 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 2: have officers on night shift, then at court all day, 143 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,720 Speaker 2: and then back on night shift, because that's why you're 144 00:07:54,760 --> 00:07:58,400 Speaker 2: breaking them. I have constituents last night who were messaging 145 00:07:58,440 --> 00:08:02,000 Speaker 2: me in the morning because we had fifteen people wandering 146 00:08:02,040 --> 00:08:04,480 Speaker 2: around the electric with bats and they were sitting on 147 00:08:04,560 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: hold for when it was about seven minutes to try 148 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 2: and get placed. So having more boots on the ground, 149 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,960 Speaker 2: we can keep throwing money at having the largest police 150 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: force in the country. You know we're going to this 151 00:08:19,040 --> 00:08:22,280 Speaker 2: review recommendation will put us up to nine hundred police 152 00:08:22,280 --> 00:08:27,160 Speaker 2: officers per hundred thousand. To give you an indication, in 153 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:29,160 Speaker 2: the rest of Australia, you're looking at about two hundred 154 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,840 Speaker 2: and thirty eight. I think it is officers per hundred 155 00:08:31,920 --> 00:08:36,280 Speaker 2: thousand in Northwestern Australia and Queensland have exactly the same 156 00:08:36,320 --> 00:08:40,000 Speaker 2: problems we do. We still don't even have an electronic 157 00:08:40,080 --> 00:08:43,440 Speaker 2: rostering system. We don't know where our officers are on 158 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 2: any given day of the week. Until we fix the 159 00:08:47,040 --> 00:08:51,920 Speaker 2: issues at the back end, we can certainly keep pouring 160 00:08:53,720 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 2: water on it, but it's until we work out and 161 00:08:56,320 --> 00:08:59,640 Speaker 2: start being with the problems we will have the same 162 00:08:59,640 --> 00:09:00,560 Speaker 2: proms and. 163 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: We are going to have. Yeah, we're gonna have to 164 00:09:04,240 --> 00:09:06,360 Speaker 1: get ready to wrap up. I'm sorry, Mark, we have 165 00:09:06,520 --> 00:09:09,800 Speaker 1: I've got to get to another interview. Thank you very 166 00:09:09,880 --> 00:09:12,800 Speaker 1: much for your time this morning. I appreciate it. We 167 00:09:12,840 --> 00:09:14,320 Speaker 1: will talk to you again very soon. 168 00:09:15,480 --> 00:09:16,000 Speaker 2: No worries. 169 00:09:16,000 --> 00:09:17,679 Speaker 1: Thanks, thank you, Thanks so much.