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Speaker 1: We know that there is a lot going on this morning,

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Speaker 1: particularly when we look at the new government and some

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Speaker 1: of the legislation that is set to be introduced to

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Speaker 1: Parliament next week. In the studio with me this morning,

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Speaker 1: it is the Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro. Good morning too,

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Speaker 1: Good morning Katie and to your listeners, great to have

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Speaker 1: you on the show. Now. I understand there has been

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Speaker 1: some movement on the introduction of Declan's Law when Parliament

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Speaker 1: sits next week.

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Speaker 2: What's the latest.

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Speaker 3: So we've been working really hard over the last six

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Speaker 3: weeks to make sure we can deliver on all of

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Speaker 3: our election commitments to Territorians. Around that first sittings of Parliament,

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Speaker 3: we always said there was a crime crisis and it

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Speaker 3: needed a crisis response, which is why it's going to

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Speaker 3: be a jam pack two weeks of new powers for

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Speaker 3: police and a real focus on crime reduction. So we're

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Speaker 3: very proud that the flagship of all of those laws

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Speaker 3: is going to be Declan's Law. And I'm even prouder

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Speaker 3: to have Samara Lavity, Declan's mum, coming to Darwin, to

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Speaker 3: be able to witness all of her courageous and passionate

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Speaker 3: fight for Territorians to be safe and come into fruition.

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Speaker 3: So it's going to be a big two weeks, so

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Speaker 3: hold on to your hats.

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Speaker 4: But it's the start of more to come.

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Speaker 3: You know, this is not going to be laws that

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Speaker 3: create the silver bullet to all crime. It's about stemming

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Speaker 3: the tide or stopping the bleed. It's about giving our

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Speaker 3: police the powers they need and delivering on those commitments.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think it's also the expectation of the community.

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Speaker 1: And I know that there will be people who have

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Speaker 1: concerns around some of that legislation. I'll get to some

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Speaker 1: of that shortly, but it is the expectation.

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Speaker 2: Of the community.

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Speaker 1: You came in on a mandate to deliver on reducing

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Speaker 1: the rates of crime, and that's what we all expect

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Speaker 1: to see.

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Speaker 2: With Decklan's law.

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Speaker 1: I know that what it's going to mean is that

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Speaker 1: there'll be a presumption against bail for youth and adult

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Speaker 1: serious violent offenders. How is that going to work? I

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Speaker 1: guess for our listeners this morning to really understand what

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Speaker 1: that's going to mean to them and how it impacts

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Speaker 1: their life.

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Speaker 3: No, that's a great question, Katie, and you're absolutely right.

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Speaker 3: People we said we would reduce crime. People voted for

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Speaker 3: us to reduce crime, and we're just getting on with

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Speaker 3: the job. There is no second guessing that we are

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Speaker 3: plowing ahead. So Declan's law specifically does a number of

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Speaker 3: things that a bunch of it relates to bail and

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Speaker 3: a chunk of it relates to knife crime. So if

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Speaker 3: I talk to bail, what this will mean is people

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Speaker 3: who are serious violent offenders, they're going to come to

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Speaker 3: court at that first opportunity they get to court, and

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Speaker 3: they will be on the back foot. They will have

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Speaker 3: a much higher threshold threshold and so will the judges

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Speaker 3: of going through the criteria of hang on, is this

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Speaker 3: person going to present an ongoing risk to our community?

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Speaker 4: And that's what we want.

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Speaker 3: We want more scrutiny over these people and less of

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Speaker 3: them bailed, essentially is what it's about. So a much

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Speaker 3: higher test, much stronger position for the victim the prosecution,

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Speaker 3: and so we hope and we know that that will

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Speaker 3: result in less people being bailed.

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Speaker 4: It's also going to mean there will be.

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Speaker 3: A presumption, sorry, a breach of bowl condition will now

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Speaker 3: be an offense. So that was removed by Labor. So

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Speaker 3: whether you're an adult offender or a youth offender. If

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Speaker 3: you were out on bail, which means you've been given

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Speaker 3: us second chance by the courts to do the right thing,

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Speaker 3: and you go and break the law again, that will

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Speaker 3: be a chargeable offense. You'll be brought back before the courts.

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Speaker 3: So that's two parts of it that. There's another part

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Speaker 3: of it, which will mean that for people who are

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Speaker 3: repeat serious violent offenders or violent offenders, if they've had

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Speaker 3: two of those types offenses in the last two years,

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Speaker 3: they will be regarded as a repeat offender, which again

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Speaker 3: means that they will start on the back foot. And

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Speaker 3: I just want to add that if, even though the

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Speaker 3: threshold is going to be so much higher, if the

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Speaker 3: courts find a way of bailing these people despite the

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Speaker 3: very clear laws and guidance we're providing, then the courts

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Speaker 3: will have to put electronic monitoring on them. So there's

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Speaker 3: a double backstep. It's a backup, right It sounds also.

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Speaker 2: You're sort of putting the courts on notice.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we are, because at the end of the day,

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Speaker 3: the people, the members of Parliament are elected by the people.

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Speaker 3: The Parliament creates the laws that meets the people's expectation.

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Speaker 3: The courts and the judges are there to implement the laws.

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Speaker 3: So my job is Minister to make sure that the

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Speaker 3: territory's laws meet community expectation and the rest should follow.

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Speaker 3: And if it doesn't, we'll come back to Parliament and

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Speaker 3: we'll just keep going. Katie, there's you know, you don't

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Speaker 3: have to stop once and we're not going to set

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Speaker 3: this stuff and forget and say, oh, well I ticked

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Speaker 3: off my election commitment.

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Speaker 4: That's done.

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Speaker 3: This doesn't end here, it starts here, and that's what's

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Speaker 3: so important for people to understand.

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Speaker 1: Now it is just one of the legislative changes that

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Speaker 1: are going to be introduced. We also know that you

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Speaker 1: are looking at these new posting and boasting laws.

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Speaker 2: Well, it's an offense.

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Speaker 1: It will become an offense and it will see a

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Speaker 1: penalty of up to two years jail. Again, how is

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Speaker 1: this going to work in a practical sense, because sometimes

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Speaker 1: you've got, you know, a group of people committing a crime.

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Speaker 1: How do you know who's posting it or who's behind it.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we spend a lot of time looking at how

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Speaker 3: other jurisdictions do this because it's to some extent an

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Speaker 3: emerging area of law.

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Speaker 4: But we think we've hit the right spot.

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Speaker 3: So in Queensland, for example, posting and boasting is attached

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Speaker 3: to ram raid, so you can only be charged with

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Speaker 3: posting and boasting if you've done a ram rain. What

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Speaker 3: we've decided to do is have it as a standalone

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Speaker 3: a fence, so that applies to a broader range of laws,

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Speaker 3: and that also means it's not necessarily the person committing

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Speaker 3: the crime. So for example, property damage is one of

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Speaker 3: the laws that it will apply to. So if you're

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Speaker 3: not the person committing the property damage, but it's your

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Speaker 3: mate and you're standing there filming it live into TikTok

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Speaker 3: or whatever these platforms are and boasting about it and

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Speaker 3: saying look at us, you know stuff you cops, whatever

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Speaker 3: it might be, then that person can be charged.

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Speaker 4: They might not be able to be charged for the property.

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Speaker 3: Damage because they didn't do it, but they could be

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Speaker 3: charged with the posting and boasting. So it just gives

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Speaker 3: greater flexibility for our police and we'll have to watch

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Speaker 3: it and make sure it's working. But we wanted it

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Speaker 3: to be bigger than just ram rates, which we also

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Speaker 3: have new legislation for.

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Speaker 1: Look, I think it's a good idea. Some of what

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Speaker 1: we've seen out of Ella Springs, for example, is being crazy.

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Speaker 2: But do you think it'll.

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Speaker 1: Work in a practical sense, Like, do you think that

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Speaker 1: it will actually mean that people are heard from committing

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Speaker 1: that offense?

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Speaker 3: That is certainly our goal, CADI. So laws have a

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Speaker 3: number of things that they do. They meet a community

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Speaker 3: expectation or a standard of behavior is set, They deliver.

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Speaker 4: A consequence for people who don't meet the community's.

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Speaker 3: Standard of behavior, and they act as a deterrent from

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Speaker 3: people breaking the law in the first place.

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Speaker 4: Right. So this is the.

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Speaker 3: Aim of all of these laws, and you know it'll

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Speaker 3: take time for some of them to build up and

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Speaker 3: people to be aware that we're serious about it, because

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Speaker 3: of course, for eight long years we've had a very

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Speaker 3: permissive system where crime has been free flowing and even

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Speaker 3: supported effectively. So we've got to unwind a big mess

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Speaker 3: and turn this ship around. But we're very committed to it,

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Speaker 3: and this reform is a first step in what will

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Speaker 3: be a bigger piece of work.

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Speaker 2: Chief Minister.

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Speaker 1: Look, I can see that there's going to be a

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Speaker 1: lot on the agenda for next week. There's going to

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Speaker 1: be so much on the agenda when it comes to

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Speaker 1: the introduction of legislation. As I said earlier, I think

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Speaker 1: it is you know, the government's been elected with this

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Speaker 1: mandate to try to get this thing under control. One

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Speaker 1: of the changes, though, that you are looking at is

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Speaker 1: is again lowering the criminal age of responsibility from twelve

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Speaker 1: to ten, and it has been met with criticism. I

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Speaker 1: know the Children's Commissioner Selena Musk has said that the

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Speaker 1: new anti government's plan to lower the age of criminal

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Speaker 1: responsibility to ten will not only fail to deliver short

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Speaker 1: term outcomes for community safety, but could exasperate violent crime

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Speaker 1: in years to come. What's your response to.

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Speaker 3: That, Well, I just don't know what fact that's based on.

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Speaker 3: I mean, at the end of the day, we had

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Speaker 3: a system where no one was held accountable, violent crime escalated,

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Speaker 3: domestic violence escalated. We've seen everything get worse, not better,

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Speaker 3: and labor have been there weakening the laws and disempowering

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Speaker 3: our police flat out over the last eight years. So

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Speaker 3: I don't subscribe to that view. And ultimately, we have

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Speaker 3: a very clear mandate to deliver this reform. Territorians have

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Speaker 3: a right to expect us to deliver it. Our commitments

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Speaker 3: and we will not make any apologies for delivering one.

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Speaker 1: I mean it does look as though you're going to

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Speaker 1: get a significant amount of pressure on that change. Are

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Speaker 1: you going to forge your head regardless?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And you know political commentators can commentate. My job

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Speaker 3: is not to commentate. My job is to deliver a

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Speaker 3: safer territory and that's what we promise and that's what.

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Speaker 2: We'll do, Chief Minister.

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Speaker 1: Do you know if we've got many people in youth

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Speaker 1: detention at the moment in the Northern.

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Speaker 3: Territory, it tends to fluctuate. My understanding is it's between

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Speaker 3: twenty to thirty. But of course we've got so much

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Speaker 3: of Labour's mess to clean up. Look at the new

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Speaker 3: youth detention facility. I mean that's still not open.

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Speaker 2: Well that was going to be my next question. Is

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Speaker 2: it operational yet?

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Speaker 1: No?

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Speaker 4: Absolutely not, So we're still not operational. It's ridiculous.

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Speaker 2: I thought there was a.

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Speaker 1: Media event a couple of weeks before the election basically

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Speaker 1: saying that it had been or like a month before

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Speaker 1: the election saying it had been finished.

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Speaker 3: Look, Katie, I hate to break it to you, but

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Speaker 3: there was a lot of rubbish talked by Labor in

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Speaker 3: the lead up to the election.

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Speaker 4: Look, no, it's not finished. At all.

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Speaker 3: We are pushing very hard for November, but as you

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Speaker 3: can see, that's still an entire month.

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Speaker 4: Are we waiting exactly? What are we waiting?

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Speaker 2: In all seriousness?

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Speaker 1: Do you not?

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Speaker 3: It's just bits and pieces that you know, perhaps the

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Speaker 3: scope wasn't right. I don't know the detail, but it's

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Speaker 3: just a few bits and pieces to make it safe

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Speaker 3: enough for the Use to be in there. And ultimately,

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Speaker 3: you know, the trades are pulling their hair out as

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Speaker 3: much as corrections as much as we are.

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Speaker 2: Kadie, is it going to be difficult to get it open? Though?

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Speaker 1: Now at this point when you made also that promise

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Speaker 1: that you're going to change the management from being with

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Speaker 1: territory families to going across to corrections.

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Speaker 4: No, that's already happens. We've already delivered that commitment. You

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Speaker 4: have it done. It's done you. Justice is part of So.

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Speaker 2: Who have we got in corrections?

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Speaker 1: Sorry?

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Speaker 2: Who have we got in don Dale? The don Dale

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Speaker 2: Detention Center?

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Speaker 1: Now?

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Speaker 2: Have we got correction stuff rather than territory family stuff?

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Speaker 3: Well, they've all come across. So there's two use justice offices.

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Speaker 3: And we were always very clear. I know Labor tried

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Speaker 3: to scare among us saying that we'd be putting kids

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Speaker 3: in a youth system in an adult system.

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Speaker 4: That was never the case.

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Speaker 3: We're always going to have appropriate level offices dealing with that.

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Speaker 3: But it's about being part of a correctional framework and

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Speaker 3: also supporting those youth justice workers with the powers and

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Speaker 3: the backup that they need to It's a tough job,

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Speaker 3: an absolutely tough job. So yeah, we can't wait to

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Speaker 3: have the new facility open, and we are currently working

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Speaker 3: poor corrections. I mean, they are just have been treated

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Speaker 3: so badly in terms of you know, we know that

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Speaker 3: our police have our watchhouses.

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Speaker 4: Full of prisoners. They're over full.

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Speaker 3: So we're doing a very urgent piece of work around

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Speaker 3: finding every available option of what we can do in

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Speaker 3: the short, medium and long term, which of course includes

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Speaker 3: our boot camps and our women's prisons. But we need

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Speaker 3: beds yesterday, Katie, and there's no getting around that, Lea.

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Speaker 1: That is a question that we get asked almost weekly.

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Speaker 1: When are some of those bush camps going to get

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Speaker 1: up and running? Yep.

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Speaker 3: So I'm hoping in the next couple of weeks we

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Speaker 3: should have a really good announcement for everyone on our

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Speaker 3: entire plan for corrections I'd really like the community to

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Speaker 3: understand all of the moving pieces, because there will be many.

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Speaker 3: We've got three or four watchhouses being used to house prisoners.

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Speaker 3: I've got different facilities around the territory that could be used.

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Speaker 3: So we're currently working over time to finalize that and

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Speaker 3: then we will come out to the community and say, right,

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Speaker 3: these are the tough decisions we've had to make.

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Speaker 4: This is the plan now.

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Speaker 1: Look. One of the other really big issues over recent

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Speaker 1: days is the fact that it was being reported that

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Speaker 1: lawyers at the territory's largest government legal agency, int Legal Aid,

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Speaker 1: are preparing to wind back criminal services from the end

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Speaker 1: of the month, with all adult contested mentions and hearings

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Speaker 1: to be halted by January. The issue revolves around funding.

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Speaker 1: From my understanding, have you been in talks with Legal

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Speaker 1: Aid and what is the latest.

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Speaker 3: I haven't directly, but I did go to Canberra as

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Speaker 3: part of National Cabinet just a couple of weeks after

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Speaker 3: the election, and my job there was to fight for

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Speaker 3: a fairer share for the territory of that Legal Aid funding,

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Speaker 3: which a large portion.

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Speaker 4: Of it comes from the Commonwealth government.

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Speaker 3: Now, we haven't been successful in securing needs based funding

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Speaker 3: and part of the problem is the neglect of the

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Speaker 3: previous eight years of the former government obviously, so yeah,

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Speaker 3: there are messes everywhere I turn, Katie, but ultimately having

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Speaker 3: strong legal aid services and NAGA are very important. This

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Speaker 3: is about access to justice, not just for offenders who

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Speaker 3: need that representation, but for victims. If the court process

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Speaker 3: is blocked, victims aren't getting well.

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Speaker 2: If that's a massive concern.

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Speaker 1: That's something that I see as being a massive concern,

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Speaker 1: and everybody does to serve the right to be represented.

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Speaker 1: I know that the Law Society of the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: is calling upon both the Commonwealth and the Northern Territory

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Speaker 1: governments to immediately address this funding issue.

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Speaker 2: What are the next steps from your perspective.

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Speaker 3: We'll continue our negotiations in good faith with the federal government.

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Speaker 3: We really hope they'll come to the table and understand

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Speaker 3: our plight, particularly with NAGAR. I mean that has been

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Speaker 3: suffering dysfunction for a very very long time and the

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Speaker 3: Federal government has a role to play there. So there's

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Speaker 3: a lot to work through, but we know that to

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Speaker 3: have as strong and save community, we need to have

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Speaker 3: a strong, robust leader.

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Speaker 1: This is the thing and we know at the moment

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Speaker 1: as well, we've got a heck of a lot of

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Speaker 1: prisoners on remand we've even got a situation bit while

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Speaker 1: the head of the Criminal Lawyers Association telling the paper

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Speaker 1: prison population remand rates are at an all time high

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Speaker 1: and on the rise. You know, the legislation that you're introducing,

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Speaker 1: I do think is what the community expects.

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Speaker 2: But how are you going to juggle that?

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Speaker 1: Then, if we've got prisons that are as we've spoken

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Speaker 1: about so many times even before the election, that are overflowing,

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Speaker 1: it takes a long long time to build more prisons.

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Speaker 1: And then if people aren't actually getting that legal representation

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Speaker 1: and victims are feeling like their cases aren't even going

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Speaker 1: to court when they should be.

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Speaker 2: Like, it's a.

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Speaker 3: Massive issue because there's many leavers, there's many parts to it.

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Speaker 4: So it's one thing to give police extra powers.

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Speaker 3: You then need to support the courts and corrections to

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Speaker 3: go with it so that it's a seamless process and

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Speaker 3: that work is being done.

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Speaker 4: You know, I just I don't have a quick answer

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Speaker 4: on that.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, it's been too bigger ingrained problem, but we are

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Speaker 3: getting through it, and so our immediate point is that

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Speaker 3: we have to stop the bleed, We have to make

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Speaker 3: people safe, We have to deal with police powers. Our

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Speaker 3: second point then is dealing with the corrections mess, and

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Speaker 3: the Attorney General is working through Access to Justice. So

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Speaker 3: I think we can get some quick wins on the

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Speaker 3: board with corrections. For example, there are other cottages that

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Speaker 3: need some reparation work in Alice Springs that would then

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Speaker 3: bring online about ninety six beds, so we will be

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Speaker 3: able to pull a number of leavers to get the

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Speaker 3: space that we need soon, while we then go ahead

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Speaker 3: and build those new new adult beds and look, like

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Speaker 3: I said, I look forward to announcing that comprehensive plan

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Speaker 3: because I think it will there is a number of

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Speaker 3: leavers on it that will require explanation to the community.

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Speaker 2: Leah.

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Speaker 1: Before I let you go, a quick question from Jerry

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Speaker 1: Wood this morning. He said, Hi, Katie, will Leah send

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Speaker 1: her new legislation to scrutiny committee.

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Speaker 3: We won't be this is this legislation will be put

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Speaker 3: through the Parliament in the first two weeks as we promised.

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Speaker 3: But we're very committed, as Jerry notes, to having those

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Speaker 3: proper parliamentary processes, and so we will also be making

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Speaker 3: sure that we brief the opposition and the new Crossbench,

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Speaker 3: because we really want them to understand the detail of

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Speaker 3: those laws as at the end of the day, they

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Speaker 3: represent their.

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Speaker 1: Communities as Look, I know some people might sort of

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Speaker 1: not really understand what a scrutiny committee does and not

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Speaker 1: really care whether it goes through a scrutiny committee or not.

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Speaker 1: But I suppose there will be others that are going

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Speaker 1: We'll hang on a seat. We're introducing some pretty significant

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Speaker 1: legislation here that could see a lot more people behind bars.

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Speaker 1: Should it be scrutinized more heavily, Well, I.

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Speaker 3: Think because we've had the election period, it's been very

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Speaker 3: heavily scrutinized. I mean we've talked about it and promoted

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Speaker 3: it right across the territory. In detail, we're delivering on

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Speaker 3: what we said we would do going forward. We have

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Speaker 3: no plans to be pushing legislation through as fast as

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Speaker 3: we have to do in the next two weeks. But as

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Speaker 3: I said, this is crisis management for a crisis response,

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Speaker 3: and we believe we have the mandate of the Territorians

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Speaker 3: to deliver on this, and in fact, there is a

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Speaker 3: community expectation that we must do it well.

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Speaker 1: Chief Minister Leah Finocchiaro, good to speak with you this morning.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much here, Thank you,