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Speaker 1: This is jam Nation were every day we're reading it

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Speaker 1: another horror story about the treatment of women in Iran.

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Speaker 1: Protests are happening right now and they're the biggest the

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Speaker 1: country has ever seen. They're being led by women publicly

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Speaker 1: cutting their hair, burning their hdge ubs. Thousands are taking

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Speaker 1: to the streets in mass demonstrations against Iran's oppressive regime

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Speaker 1: and the morality police. Australian academic Kylie Moore Gilbert was

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Speaker 1: in Iran when she was accused of espionage, and she

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Speaker 1: was detained and imprisoned for eight hundred and four days,

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Speaker 1: most been in solitary confinement, resisting making a false confession

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Speaker 1: despite relentless interrogation and psychological torture. She's got a lot

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Speaker 1: to say about what's going on right now. I thought

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Speaker 1: it was a perfect time to be talking to her.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Kylie Moore Gilbert.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Hello, thanks for having you back on.

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Speaker 3: Well, it's great to talk to you again. In completing

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Speaker 3: your book. These morality police, what I learned from them,

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Speaker 3: they're not actually police, they're just what sort of police

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Speaker 3: are they? Their morality police?

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Speaker 2: I mean, since when do you need to tell you

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Speaker 2: what to wear on the street? Right? It's a very

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Speaker 2: strange concept. And I should also say that a lot

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Speaker 2: of these so called morality police are fellow women. You know,

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Speaker 2: they're women policing the attire of other women, which is

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Speaker 2: quite shocking as well.

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Speaker 1: So these protests have really been triggered following the death

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Speaker 1: of the twenty two year old Massa Amini, who was

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Speaker 1: in police custody in September. Can you tell us the

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Speaker 1: story about Massa. She was just minding her own business,

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Speaker 1: walking down the street with her.

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Speaker 2: Brother, exactly, and she was actually wearing her job. It's

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Speaker 2: not that she had taken off her job or something

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Speaker 2: like that. A few days after her arrest and after

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Speaker 2: the unrest began, we heard that she'd actually been arrested

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Speaker 2: for having tight trousers. So it wasn't even that she

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Speaker 2: wasn't wearing her job. She was wearing everything properly. Her

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Speaker 2: trousers were too tight, and these morality police picked her

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Speaker 2: up because of that. Sometime between putting her in a

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Speaker 2: police fan and when they called her family a few

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Speaker 2: hours later, she died. And it's likely she died because

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Speaker 2: of some blunt instrument or some sort of fall that

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Speaker 2: you know, hit her on the head and caused her

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Speaker 2: brain damage. So it's quite shocking that this poor woman

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Speaker 2: died for no reason whatsoever, simply because somebody isn't like

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Speaker 2: her tight trousers.

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Speaker 1: Those women who are protesting and cutting their hair and

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Speaker 1: burning their clothes, they're so brave because this isn't an

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Speaker 1: easy regime to protest about, is.

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Speaker 2: It No, And there've been cracking down on them horrifically.

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Speaker 2: We've had so many young girls, teenage girls and young

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Speaker 2: women shot and killed for simply taking to the streets

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Speaker 2: and taking off their hitjarb and protesting. It's really horrific.

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Speaker 2: They've shut down the internet to the entire country. They're

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Speaker 2: rounding people up. They attacked a university and rounded up

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Speaker 2: hundreds and hundreds of students and took them away to prison.

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Speaker 2: The other day, you have high school, you have girls

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Speaker 2: high schools where all the fifteen year old girls are

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Speaker 2: protesting in the school. You know, it's a real nationwide

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Speaker 2: society uprising, and women are at the helm and not

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Speaker 2: just any women, young girls. So it's quite remarkable.

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Speaker 3: Really, could you see this as being a way out

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Speaker 3: of the dark ages for the Middle East how they

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Speaker 3: treat women.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a way out of the dark ages

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Speaker 2: for Iran. I don't know about the rest of the

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Speaker 2: Middle East, but it's certainly some way we need to

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Speaker 2: pass before we get to the point when this regime

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Speaker 2: is removed. The regime is incapable of reforming itself. It

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Speaker 2: will never compromise on hijab. That's one of the core

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Speaker 2: pillars of its ideology, and oppressing women and having women

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Speaker 2: have a lesser status in law is also a pillar

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Speaker 2: of its ideology. It's it's you know, Sharia law. So

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Speaker 2: this regime needs to go, and that's what the people want.

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Speaker 2: They're on the streets calling for it. Down with the regime,

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Speaker 2: Death to the dictator. It's beyond the morality police now.

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Speaker 2: They want this regime gone, and they want equality between

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Speaker 2: women and men.

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Speaker 1: Many women around the world and men supporting these women

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Speaker 1: are pledging them help. Is this useful? What can we do?

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Speaker 2: I think keeping this in the news and in the headlines,

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Speaker 2: continuing to draw attention and shine a spotlight on what's

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Speaker 2: happening in Run is really important because the regime uses

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Speaker 2: the cover of lack of attention, of lack of coverage

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Speaker 2: to commit its worst atrocities. So if we continue to

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Speaker 2: shine a spotlight, and you know, sanctioning some of the

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Speaker 2: morality police, sanctioning some of the individuals who are participating

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Speaker 2: in the crackdown would also help. Anything we can do

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Speaker 2: to try and prevent their worse successes and prevent some

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Speaker 2: sort of massacre of protests, I think would do a

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Speaker 2: lot to help the Uranian people right now. We just

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Speaker 2: shouldn't forget them, and we should keep speaking about it.

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Speaker 3: Well, you've been very brave. Your book, The Young Cage

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Speaker 3: Sky is such a great read. And those eight hundred

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Speaker 3: and four days that you spend in jail, your life

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Speaker 3: was constantly you had that fear that you were constantly going.

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Speaker 2: To be killed. Oh, thank you. You know, like at

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Speaker 2: the beginning, I had a lot lot of fears, But

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Speaker 2: after a while I came to understand that I had

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Speaker 2: value to these guys. You know, they hadn't arrested me

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Speaker 2: for no reason. They'd arrested me because they wanted something

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Speaker 2: for my government. I was a diplomatic hostage. So even

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Speaker 2: though they threatened me with the death penalty and etc.

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Speaker 2: I came to understand after a while that they would

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Speaker 2: be mad to kill me because what would they get

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Speaker 2: to my dead body. Nothing? They wanted to keep me

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Speaker 2: alive so that they could trade me for some sort

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Speaker 2: of concession from the Australian government.

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Speaker 1: Well, the Supreme leader in Irani Ayatollah, has blamed all

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Speaker 1: of the these protests on foreign media, but we still

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Speaker 1: need to remain absolutely vigilant.

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Speaker 3: Bring it on, bro, that's what we say to you.

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Speaker 3: Kylie Moore Gilbert, thank you for joining us, No why,

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Speaker 3: thanks for having me