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Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Dailias.

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Speaker 2: Oh now it makes sense.

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Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily Os. It's Thursday,

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Speaker 1: the eighteenth of September. I'm Lucy Tassel, I'm Emma Gillespie.

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Speaker 1: Israel has launched a ground offensive into Gaza City, displacing

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Speaker 1: hundreds of thousands of Palestinians. The country's leadership says the

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Speaker 1: city is the last stronghold of Hamas, while international governments

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Speaker 1: and the UN have condemned the attacks. The offensive began

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Speaker 1: shortly after a UN Commission of Inquiry announced it had

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Speaker 1: found Israel was carrying out a genocide of Palestinians in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: In today's episode, we'll explain what to know about these

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Speaker 1: two developments and the international reaction.

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Speaker 2: Lucy, it's been a really big week of headlines coming

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Speaker 2: out of the Middle East and relating to the conflict

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Speaker 2: in gar Those two developments that you mentioned were reported

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Speaker 2: within hours of each other on Tuesday night, so we've

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Speaker 2: known Israel's ground defensive in Gaza City was coming for

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Speaker 2: a few weeks. We have been waiting for that escalation.

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Speaker 2: But before we get into what has changed there, what

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Speaker 2: do we need to know about the latest in Gaza.

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Speaker 1: Gaza City is the main urban area in the Gaza Strip.

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Speaker 1: Until the last few weeks, it was estimated to have

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Speaker 1: a population of around one million people. Many of those

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Speaker 1: people had fled to the city from other parts of

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Speaker 1: the enclave when they were subject to Israeli Defense Forces

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Speaker 1: evacuation orders. The UN now estimates those orders cover almost

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Speaker 1: ninety percent of the entirety of Gaza and the city

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Speaker 1: has a total area of around forty five square kilometers,

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Speaker 1: which makes it very dense. And the last thing to

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Speaker 1: know is that international authorities recently declared Gaza City is

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Speaker 1: in a state of famine.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so we are talking about a dense population in

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Speaker 2: a very small area. We know now the Israeli Defense

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Speaker 2: Forces are moving into Gaza City, progressing with launching this

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Speaker 2: promised ground offensive. What can you tell me about that.

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Speaker 1: We knew in recent weeks that the IDF were calling

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Speaker 1: up more reservist troops to support a planned takeover of

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Speaker 1: Gaza City. Details of this scale and the impact of

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Speaker 1: the offensive that has now begun are still emerging, including

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Speaker 1: the death toll, and I imagine we'll know more about

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Speaker 1: all of those things in the coming days. International media

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Speaker 1: reports troops have moved into the city from its outskirts

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Speaker 1: and that the IDF has carried out heavy waves of

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Speaker 1: bombing with drones and with helicopters. Palestinians on the ground

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Speaker 1: have told media that Israel carried out its most intense

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Speaker 1: bombing since October twenty twenty three on Tuesday night going

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Speaker 1: into Wednesday. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netnia who said the

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Speaker 1: attack was aimed at what he called the last important

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Speaker 1: stronghold of Hamas in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: Okay, and that is in line with the retrick we've

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Speaker 2: heard from the Israeli government that it believes Hamas is

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Speaker 2: hiding out places like hospital schools, in underground tunnels across

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Speaker 2: Gaza City. You mentioned earlier that there were around a

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Speaker 2: million people in Gaza City at last estimates, and that

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Speaker 2: there have been these evacuation orders. So where are Palestinians going?

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Speaker 1: So the idea of has launched a lot of these

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Speaker 1: evacuation warnings. They've told people this time to go to

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Speaker 1: what they've called a humanitarian zone in al Mahwasi in

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Speaker 1: South Gaza. Some satellite images that I've seen that were

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Speaker 1: published by the international news service Reuters show ALMAHWASI crowded

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Speaker 1: with tents like quite crowded. The UN Office in the

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Speaker 1: occupied Palestinian territory said Israel had quote not taken effective

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Speaker 1: steps to ensure the safety of those forced to move there,

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Speaker 1: and had not provided enough space or service for those

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Speaker 1: who have already been there for a while subject to

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Speaker 1: other evacuation orders. And to go further, it has previously

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Speaker 1: accused the IDF of targeting displaced Palestinians tents in this area,

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Speaker 1: which had said killed entire families.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so the UN they're painting this picture of forced

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Speaker 2: displacement of Palestinians in Gaza evacuation orders moving people along

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Speaker 2: to places that have not historically been proven to be

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Speaker 2: safe for them either. Yes.

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Speaker 1: And UNICEF, which is the UN Children's agency, has also

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Speaker 1: weighed in. It's called these displacements inhumane and a spokesperson

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Speaker 1: described seeing thirsty and starving families fleeing Gaza city on foot.

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Speaker 1: And I should say this is all on top of

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Speaker 1: around ninety percent of Gaza being subject to these orders,

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Speaker 1: as I said, And the UN has also found Israeli

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Speaker 1: strikes have hit around ninety percent of all residential dwellings

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Speaker 1: in Gaza. So that's sort of a sense from this

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Speaker 1: body of there is nowhere safe left in Gaza to go.

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Speaker 2: Okay. What have we heard from the global community over

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Speaker 2: the days and hours since this offensive ramped up?

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Speaker 1: UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres described the offensive in Gaza

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Speaker 1: City as quote morally, politically and legally intolerable. He said

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Speaker 1: he doesn't believe that Israel is quote interested in a

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Speaker 1: serious cease fire. From the UK, we've heard from new

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Speaker 1: Foreign Affairs Minister Ivak Cooper who said the offensive was

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Speaker 1: quote utterly reckless and appalling. And then from within Israel,

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Speaker 1: we've seen families of hostages taken by Hamas have protested

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Speaker 1: outside Netnyahu's office, saying the offensive endangers their loved ones.

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Speaker 1: Of the around forty eight hostages still believed to be

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Speaker 1: in Gaza, around twenty are assumed to be alive.

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Speaker 2: Okay. So that is one of the big updates this week,

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Speaker 2: the military operation in Gaza City that was launched coincidentally

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Speaker 2: mere hours after another significant development this week. We had

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Speaker 2: the ground offensive, but before that, a UN committee handed

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Speaker 2: down a finding of genocide. Before we unpack this one, Lucy,

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Speaker 2: I think it would be helpful to explain how genocide

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Speaker 2: is actually defined.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Under international law, genocide is defined as killing members

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Speaker 1: of a national, ethnical, racial, or religious group. That's the

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Speaker 1: sort of legal phrasing, or making their survival impossible. In

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Speaker 1: this case, the allegation has been made against Israel and

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Speaker 1: the group in question is Palestinians in Gaza. This is

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Speaker 1: not the first time that this allegation has been made,

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Speaker 1: but it is a fairly significant finding.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So talk to me about this UN committee in particular.

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Speaker 2: We have heard similar findings or retricks that have come

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Speaker 2: out of other global bodies or even other UN agencies.

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Speaker 2: So interested in what makes this different.

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Speaker 1: So there are three reasons in my mind. The first

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Speaker 1: is the nature of the committee itself, the second is

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Speaker 1: the scope of the research that has undertaken, and the

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Speaker 1: third is the nature of the finding. So the first point,

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Speaker 1: the committee that's made this finding is based in the

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Speaker 1: UN's Human Rights Office. It's called the UN Independent International

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Speaker 1: Commission of Inquiry on the Occupied Palestinian Territory including East

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Speaker 1: Jerusalem and Israel its full title. Yeah, it was established

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty one after an Israeli military offensive on

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Speaker 1: Gaza and Hamas and other groups firing rockets at Israel.

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to get into the details, got enough

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Speaker 1: to get through on today's podcast, but suffice it to

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Speaker 1: say there were several specific causes for this committee to

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Speaker 1: be set up, and some of them related to territories

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Speaker 1: considered illegally occupied by Israel under international law, including East Jerusalem. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so this committee has been specifically examining Israel's actions in

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Speaker 1: the region for some years now, and in terms of

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Speaker 1: the ope of its research sort of my second reason

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Speaker 1: what struck me was that this is the first UN

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Speaker 1: finding relating to genocide that has taken in quite so

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Speaker 1: much evidence. So it's going from seventh of October twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty three, when Hamas launched its attack on Israel and

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Speaker 1: reaching up to almost the present day. It's cut off

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Speaker 1: was the thirty first of July twenty twenty five, right,

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Speaker 1: so it.

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Speaker 2: Is more of a longeritudinal evaluation than we may have

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Speaker 2: previously seen.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so it means it's looked at events like Israeli

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Speaker 1: forces killing more than a thousand Palestinians who were trying

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Speaker 1: to access food and Israel's blockade of humanitarian aid into Gaza.

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Speaker 1: Earlier this year.

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Speaker 2: Does this mean that the other similar findings that I've

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Speaker 2: kind of mentioned haven't had that evidence or haven't carried

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Speaker 2: as much weight.

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't go so far as to say that it

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Speaker 1: carries much weight necessarily, but that they haven't been as

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Speaker 1: up to date as this one is. Okay, So, like,

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Speaker 1: for example, I'm thinking specifically about a finding from another

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Speaker 1: UN committee in November twenty twenty four that Israel's actions

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Speaker 1: in Gaza were quote consistent with genocide that looked at

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Speaker 1: evidence from October twenty twenty three to July twenty twenty four,

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Speaker 1: so more than a year ago.

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Speaker 2: And you can even hear a bit of a language

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Speaker 2: shift between these different UN committees, Yeah, saying that Israel's

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Speaker 2: actions were consistent with genocide versus the more recent finding

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Speaker 2: of having carried out genocide.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Or like the International Criminal Court has an active

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Speaker 1: arrest warrant for Netnyahu for allegations of war crimes, including

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Speaker 1: targeting civilians and using starvation as a weapon of war,

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Speaker 1: that includes evidence up to May twenty twenty four. And

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Speaker 1: as we've kind of now touched on, my third point

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Speaker 1: is the nature of the finding. Obviously, the previous finding

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Speaker 1: was actions consistent with genocide. The ICC is suing for

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Speaker 1: war crimes. The language of this release from the UN

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Speaker 1: was different, and it said direct quote, Israel has committed

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Speaker 1: genocide against Palestinians in the Gaza strip Lucy.

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Speaker 2: Normally, when we hear these kinds of findings, or we

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Speaker 2: hear from a UN committee of this nature, we get

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Speaker 2: a fairly dense report with citations, evidence analysis. Can you

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Speaker 2: take me through some of the evidence on this genocide finding.

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Speaker 1: So they found that Israeli forces have, with the approval

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Speaker 1: of leadership, killed unprecedented numbers of Palestinians in Gaza, caused

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Speaker 1: them quote serious bodily or mental harm, created conditions quote

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Speaker 1: calculated to bring about their destruction, and worked to prevent

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Speaker 1: more Palestinians from being born. The evidence they provided there

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Speaker 1: is by bombing maternity hospitals in Gaza and an IVF clinic.

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Speaker 1: Other evidence they provided was analysis that eighty three percent

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Speaker 1: of Palestinians killed by Israeli forces in Gaza were civilians

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Speaker 1: as of May twenty twenty five, and findings that Israeli

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Speaker 1: forces had used a quote extraordinary number of heavy weapons

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Speaker 1: with quote a wide margin of error in urban areas

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Speaker 1: It also cited evidence that Israel had broken short term

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Speaker 1: cease fire agreements, created millions of tons of rubble and

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Speaker 1: debris in the strip, caused thousands of amputations, and overall, quote,

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Speaker 1: created an atmosphere of panic and terror and instilled extreme

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Speaker 1: fear in the Palestinians in Gaza.

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Speaker 2: The language that the UN has used in this report

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Speaker 2: is extremely damning. Yeah, how has Israel responded to this.

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Speaker 1: It's called the report basically fake, which has been its response.

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Speaker 1: It's denied all of these allegations, including the ones that

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Speaker 1: I've previously mentioned throughout today's podcast, and this time it

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Speaker 1: says the report is based on lies.

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Speaker 2: Okay, So if Israeli officials are not acknowledging or accepting

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Speaker 2: these findings, Yeah, what are the consequences of the report?

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Speaker 2: Are there any implications? Is it legally buy.

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Speaker 1: It's not legally binding, it doesn't carry punishments. But this

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Speaker 1: is something that's mentioned in the report and actually was

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Speaker 1: also mentioned by Australian Foreign Minister Penny Wong. Israel's actions

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Speaker 1: are going to be judged by the International Court of Justice,

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Speaker 1: so that's the ICJ. You might also hear it referred

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Speaker 1: to as the World Court that's the court where countries

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Speaker 1: can pursue allegations against each other. So South Africa has

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Speaker 1: an active case against Israel in the World Court, accusing

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Speaker 1: it of committing and failing to prevent genocide of Palestinians

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Speaker 1: in Gaza. Israel rejects these allegations. The ICJ's decisions are

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Speaker 1: typically binding, but they can be hard to enforce, and

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Speaker 1: it has made a finding of genocide before, but only

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Speaker 1: one in the past. South Africa's case was launched in

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Speaker 1: January twenty twenty four, so a long time ago. Now.

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Speaker 1: The Court has since handed down a provisional ruling, not

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Speaker 1: a final ruling, calling on Israel to take action to

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Speaker 1: limit death in Gaza. Its final decision is.

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Speaker 3: Not expected for many, many years though, okay, So the

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Speaker 3: UN Committee's finding of genocide will be used as evidence

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Speaker 3: for the ICJ.

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Speaker 1: It'll sort of sit alongside it, I believe.

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Speaker 2: Okay, But as you mentioned, a decision isn't expected for

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Speaker 2: many years, Whereas on the ground in Gaza City right now,

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Speaker 2: things are escalating at a more rapid pace than we've

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Speaker 2: seen in a long time in this conflict, So what

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Speaker 2: can we expect in the short term? Does anything change.

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Speaker 1: In terms of the things that could happen. We've talked

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Speaker 1: a lot about possible ceasefires. That is looking fairly unlikely

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Speaker 1: at the moment, given Israel's strike on Hamas's negotiating team

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Speaker 1: in Qatar in the coming days. In the immediate short term,

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Speaker 1: next week actually, the UN General Assembly is due. That's

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Speaker 1: when representatives of every UN member country gather in New

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Speaker 1: York City to debate issues that affect the entire world.

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Speaker 1: And the major agenda item that everyone will be waiting

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Speaker 1: for it's a series of statements from countries officially recognizing

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Speaker 1: the state of Palestine. That includes Canada, France, and Australia.

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Speaker 2: Lucy, we spoke a little bit about this one some

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Speaker 2: time ago now, but the meeting is actually nearly upon us.

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Speaker 2: So remind me what recognizing a state actually means.

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Speaker 1: When a country formally recognizes another state, it acknowledges that

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Speaker 1: state's independence and it accepts it as a legitimate member

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Speaker 1: of the international community. It typically leads to establishing formal

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Speaker 1: diplomatic relations between the two countries. They might set up embassies,

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Speaker 1: they might have official trade agreements. One hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: seven of the United Nations one hundred and ninety three

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Speaker 1: members recognize Palestine as an official state, and Australia will

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Speaker 1: join them next week with an official statement on the

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Speaker 1: floor of the General Assembly.

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Speaker 2: Really interesting, Lucy, thank you so much for taking us

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Speaker 2: through that. We'll keep an eye on it. I think

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Speaker 2: the whole world is watching and waiting to see what

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Speaker 2: comes next, and we will continue to keep you across

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Speaker 2: it here on the Daily os podcast and over on

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Speaker 2: our feed. That's all for today's episode. We'll be back

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Speaker 2: a little later on with your evening news headlines, but

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Speaker 2: until then, have a good day.

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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bungelung Calkatin woman from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.