WEBVTT - Why your HECS just went up, not down

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is this is the daily This is

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<v Speaker 1>the Daily OS. Oh, now it makes sense. Good morning

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<v Speaker 1>and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, the third

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<v Speaker 1>of June. I'm Lucy Tassel.

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<v Speaker 2>I'm Zara Sidler.

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<v Speaker 1>If you haven't checked your Ato account recently, I've got

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<v Speaker 1>news for you. Over the weekend, your hextet went up

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<v Speaker 1>by three point two percent.

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<v Speaker 2>Which is bringing everyone the good news. Good news, Tuesday morning,

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<v Speaker 2>good good news.

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<v Speaker 1>But wait, I hear you ask, didn't the government promise

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<v Speaker 1>to take twenty percent off my debt after the election.

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<v Speaker 1>In today's podcast, we'll explain how and why Hex works

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<v Speaker 1>and how this planned discount is going to take effects. Zara.

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<v Speaker 1>Over this weekend, I spent a bit of time talking

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<v Speaker 1>to my friends about our Hex debts.

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<v Speaker 2>Yep, so did I. I don't think you're alone there.

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<v Speaker 2>It was the topic of conversation for many young people.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, and that's because our Hex's debts went up. They

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<v Speaker 2>went over the weekend, as you said. Plus there's also

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<v Speaker 2>the question I think that naturally follows on every time

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<v Speaker 2>we see that increase, which is why are we paying

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<v Speaker 2>off these loans when generations before us got university for free.

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<v Speaker 1>Exactually, someone who got university for free was Prime Minister

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<v Speaker 1>Anthony Albanisi. And that is because there was once a

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<v Speaker 1>time from nineteen seventy four to nineteen eighty nine when

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<v Speaker 1>the government subsidized the cost of unique degrees.

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<v Speaker 2>I thought it was longer, if I'm to be honest,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize it was that short.

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<v Speaker 1>It is short. I wonder if it's because there's so

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<v Speaker 1>many people who benefited from that era who went on

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<v Speaker 1>to go into public life.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, there are a lot of.

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<v Speaker 1>People in Parliament right now that.

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<v Speaker 2>Age it would check out.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, that makes sense, including of course the Prime Minister. Now,

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<v Speaker 1>while this was great for students of that era, it

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<v Speaker 1>has also been argued that this was an unfair burden

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<v Speaker 1>on taxpayers.

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<v Speaker 2>Can you just unpack that? Why is free university unfair

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<v Speaker 2>for tax payers?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Our taxes are one of the main ways the

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<v Speaker 1>government makes money. It's not the only way, but it's

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<v Speaker 1>a big contributor. Some people would argue that when the

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<v Speaker 1>government says it's making something free, it's not really free

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<v Speaker 1>because one of the ways that the government gets money

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<v Speaker 1>is via USA so taxpayer exactly. So an example of

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<v Speaker 1>this is the Medicare levee. It's part of the taxes

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<v Speaker 1>that you pay. It's calculated at two percent of your

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<v Speaker 1>overall income. The argument in favor of this is that

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<v Speaker 1>everyone who pays taxes pays a tiny fraction of the whole,

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<v Speaker 1>and then this being allowed to fund something like Medicare,

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<v Speaker 1>it is argued, ends up benefiting us more than we

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<v Speaker 1>end up paying. When the Bob Hawk government came to

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<v Speaker 1>power in the early eighties, so in the middle of

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<v Speaker 1>this program, it believed the government could not keep spending

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<v Speaker 1>as much as it had on places at university because

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<v Speaker 1>in effect, government spending is in some way you're spending.

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<v Speaker 1>So by the government subsidizing these free, unique places, they

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<v Speaker 1>were finding that they didn't want to be spending quite

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<v Speaker 1>as much of taxpayer money when the government has many

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<v Speaker 1>things to pay for. Then in nineteen eighty nine, we

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<v Speaker 1>have a new system. It's called the Higher Education Contribution

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<v Speaker 1>Scheme or HEX. The Education minister at the time was

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<v Speaker 1>a guy named John Dawkins, and here's a little bit

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<v Speaker 1>of what he said when he was introducing the bills

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<v Speaker 1>of Parliament that would then kind of make this scheme happen.

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<v Speaker 1>He said, people who benefit from higher education will be

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<v Speaker 1>required to make a small contribution towards the cost of

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<v Speaker 1>their study. The key features of the contribution scheme are

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<v Speaker 1>an annual course charge of eighteen hundred dollars per year

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<v Speaker 1>of equivalent full time study, payment arrangements based on personal

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<v Speaker 1>capacity to pay, and a choice between lumpsom payment with

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<v Speaker 1>a fifteen percent discount or payment through the taxation system

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<v Speaker 1>once a person's income reaches around the level of average

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<v Speaker 1>earnings in the Australian workforce. He also noted the payments

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<v Speaker 1>would be indexed to keep pace with inflation.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, so I just want to recap where we are at.

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<v Speaker 2>So for a period of time, university was free for

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<v Speaker 2>students who were attending, and that's because the government was

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<v Speaker 2>subsidizing the cost of that, and that money was raised

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<v Speaker 2>through tax payers. We were ultimately in one very big

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<v Speaker 2>circle all paying for that to occur. When Bob Hoork

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<v Speaker 2>came to power, he said, we're spending too much on this.

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<v Speaker 2>We are going to implement a new scheme as we

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<v Speaker 2>now understand it to be the hex scheme. Yes, and

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<v Speaker 2>from nineteen eighty nine onwards that scheme has been the

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<v Speaker 2>dominant way that people take out a loan for higher

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<v Speaker 2>Education study. Yes, is that right?

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<v Speaker 1>That's correct?

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, you passed. So then you did say at the

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<v Speaker 2>end there that the education minister at the time called

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<v Speaker 2>it a contribution. I believe a small contribution, is what

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<v Speaker 2>you said. A lot of our listeners who have HEX,

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<v Speaker 2>maybe they have a double degree, not call it a

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<v Speaker 2>small contribution. Yes, talk me through that thinking.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So, even though in this podcast and in life

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<v Speaker 1>we all call our student debts HEX, scheme is actually

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<v Speaker 1>called the Higher Education Loan Program HELP, so you might

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<v Speaker 1>hear it referred to as HEX help or help.

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<v Speaker 2>It was like only upon entering this job that I

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<v Speaker 2>thought about the fact that it was an AGX. I

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<v Speaker 2>just always thought there was like a HEX on your

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<v Speaker 2>home anywake it going, Dan.

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<v Speaker 1>It was only when I started this job that I

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<v Speaker 1>realized it had been called help since I was in

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<v Speaker 1>year three. But there you go, no matter. The reason

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<v Speaker 1>for this is because of changes made to the system

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<v Speaker 1>under the Howard government. Okay, there were many different kinds

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<v Speaker 1>of changes, but basically more kinds of debts were included

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<v Speaker 1>in the scheme. Different kinds of schools, different kinds of programs,

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<v Speaker 1>and different degrees were able to cost different amounts. Changing

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<v Speaker 1>from that original eighteen hundred dollars fee.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, So under Howard there were changes to the way

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<v Speaker 2>system works.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, so it became more of a loan and less

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<v Speaker 1>of a contribution, reflected in the name of the scheme.

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<v Speaker 2>We'll be back with the rest of today's deep dive

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<v Speaker 2>after a quick message from our sponsor.

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<v Speaker 1>But in a lot of other senses, the original plan

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<v Speaker 1>is still the case all those things I outlined. So

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<v Speaker 1>your repayments are based on how much you earn, that's

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<v Speaker 1>still true. You begin paying once you meet a certain threshold.

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<v Speaker 1>That's still true. And the amount that you owe is indexed,

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<v Speaker 1>which everyone would remember from a couple of years ago,

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<v Speaker 1>is still very much true. And that's what happened this

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<v Speaker 1>past weekend.

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<v Speaker 2>That was an excellent segue into the news of the day,

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<v Speaker 2>which is, of course that our hex set went up

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<v Speaker 2>due to indexation. Can you just talk our listeners through

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<v Speaker 2>how indexation is calculated and what it's based on.

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<v Speaker 1>Basically, the idea of indexation is that your debt should

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<v Speaker 1>increase with the value of money to reflect the actual

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<v Speaker 1>value of money. This time, debts not by three point

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<v Speaker 1>two percent based on the rate of inflation that's rising prices.

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<v Speaker 1>This is historically what it's been based on. As I mentioned,

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<v Speaker 1>John Dorkin said it should be based on the rate

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<v Speaker 1>of inflation. But as we would remember, our hex stets

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<v Speaker 1>jumped up by seven point one percent in June twenty

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<v Speaker 1>twenty three.

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<v Speaker 2>Hearing that it's just unbelievable.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, because inflation was so high at the time. And

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<v Speaker 1>at that time the government passed a new law changing

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<v Speaker 1>the rules, and that meant that indexation would be based

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<v Speaker 1>on whichever is the lower of inflation or how much

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<v Speaker 1>wages have risen by, So that's the wage price index.

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<v Speaker 2>So until that time it had always been pegged to

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<v Speaker 2>the rate of inflation, but because inflation was so high,

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<v Speaker 2>there had to be an alternative here, Yes, and they.

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<v Speaker 1>Went back and applied the new rate of indexation to

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<v Speaker 1>those to that increase from June twenty twenty three. And

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<v Speaker 1>now again the government is planning to change the rules

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<v Speaker 1>in another sense by promising to discount student debts.

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<v Speaker 2>I think this is where a bit of confusion, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'd say rightly so has kicked in for our listeners

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<v Speaker 2>and for TDA readers, because throughout the election, the big

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<v Speaker 2>pitch to young voters, especially from labor was we are

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<v Speaker 2>going to cut your hextet by twenty percent, and now

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<v Speaker 2>that indexation has kicked in, our debt has gone up.

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<v Speaker 2>A lot of people are saying, well, I thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was getting cut. So can you just explain to us

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<v Speaker 2>when does that actually happen or how does it happen.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's all about timing. The first thing to know

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<v Speaker 1>is that the discount can't happen until Parliament sits again.

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<v Speaker 1>But it's not doing that until the end of July.

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<v Speaker 1>The government has, as we know, a really big majority

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<v Speaker 1>in the lower House. It will own.

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<v Speaker 2>Huge majority, the biggest ever.

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<v Speaker 1>In fact, it will only need to negotiate with the

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<v Speaker 1>Greens or the coalition to pass the bill and the

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<v Speaker 1>Upper House. Now we don't know for sure, but we

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<v Speaker 1>know that the Greens policy is that all student debts

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<v Speaker 1>should be wiped, so I think we could suggest that

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<v Speaker 1>they would be open to negotiating with the government. I

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<v Speaker 1>haven't called them up to ask, but I think we

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<v Speaker 1>will hear from them again ahead of parliament sitting. Then

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<v Speaker 1>if slash when the bill.

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<v Speaker 2>Passes, what you're saying is very likely.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, And the government also, I should note, has said

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<v Speaker 1>they want to do this as soon as possible.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, as their first kind of action.

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<v Speaker 1>Item if SLASH. When it passes, the reduction will be

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<v Speaker 1>applied automatically by the ATO. It will apply to the

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<v Speaker 1>amount of your loan before indexation. If you pay it

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<v Speaker 1>off in between indexation, so now and the end of

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<v Speaker 1>the financial year this month, you will get the discount

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<v Speaker 1>rebated in your tax return, assuming you get a return

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<v Speaker 1>and not a bill. The indexation applied this weekend will

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<v Speaker 1>then be recalculated based on the new reduced loan amount.

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<v Speaker 1>So I think it's time to do a bit of maths.

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<v Speaker 2>Please. Unfortunately, let's hold hands and do it together.

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<v Speaker 1>So say you have a loan of ten thousand dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>As of this weekend, your debt went up three point

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<v Speaker 1>two percent to ten thousand, three hundred and twenty dollars.

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<v Speaker 1>When the discount comes into effect, it reduces your pre

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<v Speaker 1>indexation debt to eight thousand dollars, and then the indexation

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<v Speaker 1>is recalculated and reapplied, so your final result will be

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<v Speaker 1>eight thousand, two hundred and fifty six dollars.

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<v Speaker 2>And can I just jump in here, so no one

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<v Speaker 2>has to actually do anything, yes, In order to access

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<v Speaker 2>that cut.

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<v Speaker 1>It happens automatical. Okay, all right, and then again, as

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<v Speaker 1>I said, the government has committed to bringing it forward

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<v Speaker 1>basically as soon as they walk into the House of Representatives,

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<v Speaker 1>so we could be seeing it fairly soon.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, really interesting there, Lucy. Before we go, I do

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<v Speaker 2>just want to ask is the government planning to change

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<v Speaker 2>anything else about our hex system, because you said that

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<v Speaker 2>they've already changed the way that indexation is pegged or

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<v Speaker 2>what's pegged. Two, are there any other changes coming down

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<v Speaker 2>the line that we know about.

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<v Speaker 1>There's one more thing they want to change, which is

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<v Speaker 1>raising the threshold of when you need to start paying

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<v Speaker 1>it back. So right now you need to be earning

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<v Speaker 1>fifty one thousand, five hundred dollars a year to begin

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<v Speaker 1>repaying your debt, and the government wants to increase that

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<v Speaker 1>to sixty seven thousand dollars per year, which is quite

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<v Speaker 1>a jump. Yeah.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, well I have to wait and see. The government

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<v Speaker 2>has a big agenda of election commitments, and as we

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<v Speaker 2>have said many times before, it's as important to hold

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<v Speaker 2>the government to account post election as it is during

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<v Speaker 2>an election period. So we will be keeping track of

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<v Speaker 2>those commitments and if and when they come to fruition.

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<v Speaker 2>Thanks for explaining, Lissie, Thanks Sarah, and thank you for

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<v Speaker 2>joining us for another episode of The Daily Os. We

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<v Speaker 2>will of course be back later today with your afternoon headlines,

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<v Speaker 2>but until then, have a good day.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Arunda

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<v Speaker 1>bunge Lung Kalgotin woman from Gadigal Country. The Daily Os

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<v Speaker 1>acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the land of

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<v Speaker 1>the Gadigal people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and

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<v Speaker 1>Torrestrate island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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<v Speaker 1>first peoples of these countries, both past and present.