1
00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:06,960
Speaker 1: Well, it's not explicit.

2
00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,520
Speaker 2: The contents of this podcast may not be suitable for

3
00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:13,480
Speaker 2: younger ears. Parent discretion is advised. What do you do

4
00:00:13,520 --> 00:00:15,360
Speaker 2: when you find out that your young child, somewhere around

5
00:00:15,360 --> 00:00:20,280
Speaker 2: the age of seven, is touching people inappropriately, is doing

6
00:00:20,320 --> 00:00:23,680
Speaker 2: things that are well put your son in a I

7
00:00:23,680 --> 00:00:25,639
Speaker 2: guess a sexually compromised position.

8
00:00:25,840 --> 00:00:27,120
Speaker 1: That is our tricky question.

9
00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:30,920
Speaker 2: Today Today and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, Real

10
00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:34,440
Speaker 2: Parenting Solutions. Every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast,

11
00:00:34,920 --> 00:00:38,239
Speaker 2: we are Justin and Kylie Coulson, and every Tuesday on

12
00:00:38,280 --> 00:00:41,199
Speaker 2: the pod we answer your tricky questions. They can be

13
00:00:41,240 --> 00:00:43,400
Speaker 2: about the most mundane things and also about the most

14
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:47,000
Speaker 2: challenging things. It can be niche or general family relationships,

15
00:00:47,400 --> 00:00:51,400
Speaker 2: well being, discipline, just life. If you'd like to submit

16
00:00:51,400 --> 00:00:53,760
Speaker 2: a tricky question, we've got a super simple system at

17
00:00:53,760 --> 00:00:57,520
Speaker 2: happy families dot com dot au. Just scrat out of podcasts,

18
00:00:57,760 --> 00:01:00,720
Speaker 2: click the record button and start talk, or you can

19
00:01:00,760 --> 00:01:03,680
Speaker 2: send us a voice note to podcasts at happy families

20
00:01:04,040 --> 00:01:08,119
Speaker 2: dot com dot au. We received the following from Liz

21
00:01:08,319 --> 00:01:09,280
Speaker 2: in Melbourne.

22
00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:13,520
Speaker 3: Doctor Justin Elizabeth from Melbourne. I have a seven year

23
00:01:13,560 --> 00:01:16,759
Speaker 3: old boy in grade twos performing some actions of touching

24
00:01:16,840 --> 00:01:18,840
Speaker 3: or tapping girls in the bottom and trying to lift

25
00:01:18,840 --> 00:01:23,160
Speaker 3: their skirts and smell where they've been sitting sometimes as well.

26
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:26,280
Speaker 3: It just scare me to think this behavior could lead

27
00:01:26,319 --> 00:01:29,840
Speaker 3: to other things when he's older. I believe he's the

28
00:01:29,840 --> 00:01:32,640
Speaker 3: only one that's in his class of school that's doing this.

29
00:01:33,240 --> 00:01:35,720
Speaker 3: And I'm really unsure about how to tackle this issue,

30
00:01:35,760 --> 00:01:38,480
Speaker 3: and I would love if you could offer any advice please.

31
00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 4: I know you ask for tricky questions. This is a

32
00:01:41,480 --> 00:01:44,160
Speaker 4: tricky one. This is a really tricky one, and I

33
00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:47,960
Speaker 4: usually have heaps to say, but today I actually am

34
00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,840
Speaker 4: probably going to defer a lot to you in relation

35
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:53,680
Speaker 4: to this. You are writing a book all about boys,

36
00:01:53,800 --> 00:01:57,040
Speaker 4: and I think while I might have some things to

37
00:01:57,080 --> 00:01:59,160
Speaker 4: add a little bit of color to what you're sharing,

38
00:01:59,280 --> 00:02:00,760
Speaker 4: i'd like to hear You've got to say.

39
00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:01,080
Speaker 3: Yeah.

40
00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:02,840
Speaker 2: I mean, I hear this question, and it reminds me

41
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:04,240
Speaker 2: of so many things that parents have said to me

42
00:02:04,240 --> 00:02:05,960
Speaker 2: when they find out that I'm writing a book about boys.

43
00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:08,079
Speaker 2: I had one mum of four, two boys, two girls,

44
00:02:08,080 --> 00:02:09,959
Speaker 2: and name was Brook, she said, And this is a

45
00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:12,160
Speaker 2: direct quote. I'm using this in chapter one of my books.

46
00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,120
Speaker 2: She said, quote. I find it kind of scary to

47
00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,679
Speaker 2: be raising boys. It's so different to girls. I'm worried

48
00:02:16,720 --> 00:02:19,840
Speaker 2: about different things. It's just scarier. And what I find

49
00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:22,600
Speaker 2: is that the questions that parents ask about boys often

50
00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,360
Speaker 2: just hit differently, because when you hear a question like

51
00:02:25,800 --> 00:02:29,760
Speaker 2: what Elizabeth's asked a there's a magnitude, there's a heft,

52
00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:31,639
Speaker 2: there's a funk to it. If you were to drop

53
00:02:31,680 --> 00:02:33,760
Speaker 2: her on the table, it would land differently to a

54
00:02:33,760 --> 00:02:36,240
Speaker 2: lot of the questions that we hear about girls. Not

55
00:02:36,320 --> 00:02:38,720
Speaker 2: that it's a competition, but worth highlighting.

56
00:02:39,120 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 1: Kylie.

57
00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:45,400
Speaker 2: Let's start with identifying the difference between natural curiosity and

58
00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,040
Speaker 2: concerning behavior. So it's completely normal for children aged somewhere

59
00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:52,840
Speaker 2: between four and eight five and eight to start getting

60
00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:55,880
Speaker 2: really curious about gender, about bodies. I mean this is

61
00:02:55,880 --> 00:02:58,959
Speaker 2: when around around four three or four is where kids

62
00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,080
Speaker 2: start playing doctors and no, but from about four five six,

63
00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:03,880
Speaker 2: that's where they step into well this is what a

64
00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,399
Speaker 2: girl does and this is what a boy does. They

65
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,639
Speaker 2: see gender, they're curious about their bodies. They have lots

66
00:03:10,680 --> 00:03:15,200
Speaker 2: of awkward questions, totally normal development. The behavior that we're

67
00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:18,679
Speaker 2: discussing today touching other kids on the back side, try

68
00:03:18,720 --> 00:03:21,880
Speaker 2: to lift skirts, smelling where girls have been sitting. This

69
00:03:21,919 --> 00:03:25,040
Speaker 2: goes beyond what you'd consider to be normal curiosity. Also,

70
00:03:25,080 --> 00:03:27,800
Speaker 2: it's only going one way. It's not like Elizabeth said,

71
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,120
Speaker 2: he's doing it to everybody. It's not like other boys

72
00:03:30,160 --> 00:03:32,799
Speaker 2: are copying this treatment. It is only girls that he's

73
00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:33,560
Speaker 2: doing it too.

74
00:03:33,760 --> 00:03:37,160
Speaker 4: And from her understanding, he's the only one. So it's

75
00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:39,160
Speaker 4: not like there's a cohort of boys that are all

76
00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,200
Speaker 4: kind of having, you know, egging each other on. This

77
00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:43,120
Speaker 4: is individual behavior.

78
00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:46,360
Speaker 2: It's deviating from the norm in a way that is

79
00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:50,960
Speaker 2: not healthy, not functional, or not typical. And other kids

80
00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:54,480
Speaker 2: are being affected as well, so we need immediate intervention. Shortly,

81
00:03:54,480 --> 00:03:56,520
Speaker 2: I want to speculate about where this kind of behavior

82
00:03:56,560 --> 00:03:58,800
Speaker 2: comes from, especially in young children. We'll talk about that,

83
00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 2: but that's sort of moving away from Elizabeth's question. And

84
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:06,400
Speaker 2: what we really need to do is address the issue immediately.

85
00:04:06,440 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 2: To me, that's the most important thing to do. So

86
00:04:08,760 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 2: first off, we need to take immediate action on an

87
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,400
Speaker 2: issue like this. This isn't the sort of thing where

88
00:04:15,440 --> 00:04:21,640
Speaker 2: we fluff around clear simple direct communication. We keep our

89
00:04:21,640 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 2: hands to ourselves. Everybody's body belongs to them. It's not

90
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,960
Speaker 2: about shaming, but we have to be really clear to

91
00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:29,480
Speaker 2: our child it's.

92
00:04:29,320 --> 00:04:31,719
Speaker 1: Not okay for this to occur.

93
00:04:32,040 --> 00:04:34,440
Speaker 2: Now, we can explore why, we can try to understand

94
00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:37,279
Speaker 2: what's going on later, and we'll talk about that in

95
00:04:37,279 --> 00:04:39,920
Speaker 2: the second half of the podcast, but my immediate response

96
00:04:40,040 --> 00:04:42,440
Speaker 2: is there just needs to be a very clear line

97
00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:45,120
Speaker 2: in the sand. This is a boundary. We do not

98
00:04:45,200 --> 00:04:48,960
Speaker 2: cross it. The transgression around this is significant and it's concerning,

99
00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:51,120
Speaker 2: and it ties in with consent. I'm an ambassador for

100
00:04:51,120 --> 00:04:54,599
Speaker 2: the federal government's Consent Can't Wait campaign. Just a couple

101
00:04:54,600 --> 00:04:56,280
Speaker 2: of things and this and now. Consent at this age

102
00:04:56,279 --> 00:05:00,440
Speaker 2: typically isn't about issues of morality and sexuality and touching,

103
00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:04,440
Speaker 2: but sometimes it needs to be. It's about respecting boundaries

104
00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,040
Speaker 2: in every interaction. So we want to teach kids that

105
00:05:08,760 --> 00:05:10,680
Speaker 2: if someone doesn't want to hug, you don't hug them.

106
00:05:10,680 --> 00:05:12,640
Speaker 2: If someone says no to tickling, you don't tickle them.

107
00:05:12,920 --> 00:05:14,880
Speaker 2: If someone says no you can't borrow my toys, you

108
00:05:14,880 --> 00:05:17,160
Speaker 2: can't borrow my toys. If someone's getting changed in the bathroom,

109
00:05:17,240 --> 00:05:20,400
Speaker 2: they want privacy, you give them privacy. When it comes

110
00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:23,839
Speaker 2: to body safety, your body belongs to you. Other people's

111
00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:25,200
Speaker 2: bodies belong to them.

112
00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:26,560
Speaker 1: We have to.

113
00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,760
Speaker 2: Practice asking permission. If you wouldn't ask that girl permission,

114
00:05:29,800 --> 00:05:32,440
Speaker 2: can I lift up your skirt, then it's not okay.

115
00:05:32,120 --> 00:05:32,520
Speaker 1: To do it.

116
00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:35,400
Speaker 2: And if you would ask that girl permission, then you

117
00:05:35,480 --> 00:05:37,680
Speaker 2: need to understand what boundaries are. And again we'll talk

118
00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:39,800
Speaker 2: about where this is coming from in a sec I.

119
00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,320
Speaker 4: Think it's really really easy when we are placed in

120
00:05:42,360 --> 00:05:44,800
Speaker 4: situations like this, like I can't imagine getting a phone

121
00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:48,080
Speaker 4: call from the school principle and being told that this

122
00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,760
Speaker 4: is what my child's doing. And so as a parent,

123
00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:53,400
Speaker 4: it can be really really easy in that moment to

124
00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:59,960
Speaker 4: catastrophize and project where this behavior will lead in the future,

125
00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:04,719
Speaker 4: and therefore treat our child differently in that process. Elizabeth,

126
00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:07,040
Speaker 4: based on her message, is sounding quite level headed at

127
00:06:07,080 --> 00:06:10,360
Speaker 4: the moment, but over time it can be really easy

128
00:06:10,400 --> 00:06:12,640
Speaker 4: to just get caught up in the emotion of everything

129
00:06:12,680 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 4: and why is my child doing this? And if we

130
00:06:15,360 --> 00:06:18,640
Speaker 4: can just as parents, take it a notch down and

131
00:06:18,720 --> 00:06:22,039
Speaker 4: deal with today. Don't even think about what tomorrow looks like,

132
00:06:22,160 --> 00:06:25,279
Speaker 4: or what next week or next year. Just focus on

133
00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:27,000
Speaker 4: today because your child needs you today.

134
00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:27,600
Speaker 1: Yeah.

135
00:06:27,680 --> 00:06:31,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, And again, those really clear, simple conversations direct. I'm

136
00:06:31,120 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 2: going to recommend Michelle Mitchell's books The Girl's Guide and

137
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:35,640
Speaker 2: The Guy's Guide to Puberty, and also where.

138
00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:36,359
Speaker 1: Do Babies Come From?

139
00:06:37,560 --> 00:06:40,920
Speaker 2: Maybe these conversations aren't happening enough, or maybe we need

140
00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:42,720
Speaker 2: to get a lot more clear and direct about it.

141
00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,440
Speaker 2: Michelle us that does a great job about talking about

142
00:06:44,480 --> 00:06:46,680
Speaker 2: consent and where do babies come from? A couple of

143
00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:48,640
Speaker 2: other things that I think are important. I would be

144
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 2: speaking with the school about it. They're obviously talking with you,

145
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:54,360
Speaker 2: So get on the same team, be aligned, and find

146
00:06:54,400 --> 00:06:56,839
Speaker 2: out what can be done in a school context. So

147
00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,480
Speaker 2: is there a possibility that there can be a little

148
00:07:00,480 --> 00:07:04,039
Speaker 2: bit more supervised play that the teacher and their school

149
00:07:04,080 --> 00:07:06,400
Speaker 2: counselor need to know what's going on in schools will

150
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:09,320
Speaker 2: have protocols for this situation, and we need to make

151
00:07:09,320 --> 00:07:12,200
Speaker 2: sure that there are consistent boundaries between home and school.

152
00:07:12,400 --> 00:07:14,320
Speaker 2: But fundamentally, I think this is one of those ones

153
00:07:14,360 --> 00:07:17,960
Speaker 2: where as parents we need to be right on top

154
00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:21,040
Speaker 2: of it, and there may be there may be cause.

155
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:21,640
Speaker 1: For professional help.

156
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,040
Speaker 2: After the break, I want to talk about where that

157
00:07:23,160 --> 00:07:25,920
Speaker 2: might come from and why you might need to go

158
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:30,480
Speaker 2: down the professional route. Not certain, but I'm pretty sure

159
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:33,120
Speaker 2: that we would need to go there. Two other things,

160
00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,280
Speaker 2: we need to understand where it's coming from. So that's

161
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:37,160
Speaker 2: like I said, after the break, and also we've got

162
00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:41,720
Speaker 2: a monitor online access. I don't know, we just don't

163
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,040
Speaker 2: have any information about what he might have been exposed to,

164
00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,680
Speaker 2: but we want to make sure that he's not being

165
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:52,120
Speaker 2: exposed to inappropriate content explicit content online. After the break,

166
00:07:52,120 --> 00:07:54,320
Speaker 2: we'll talk about where this could be coming from and

167
00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:58,640
Speaker 2: effective ways that we can have deeper conversations with our

168
00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:10,360
Speaker 2: son about problem sexual behavior. Okay, So we have a

169
00:08:10,480 --> 00:08:14,760
Speaker 2: very tough, very tricky question, Kylie, a handful of things

170
00:08:14,800 --> 00:08:17,480
Speaker 2: in terms of his how the conversation needs to go.

171
00:08:17,560 --> 00:08:18,960
Speaker 2: You need to make sure that he stops. You need

172
00:08:19,000 --> 00:08:21,520
Speaker 2: to make sure that consent's being taught. Need to work

173
00:08:21,520 --> 00:08:24,480
Speaker 2: with the school to protect people who may otherwise be harmed.

174
00:08:24,880 --> 00:08:26,760
Speaker 2: That's kind of the guts of what we've talked about

175
00:08:26,760 --> 00:08:27,120
Speaker 2: so far.

176
00:08:27,600 --> 00:08:29,800
Speaker 4: So while I think that everything that your sharing is

177
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,440
Speaker 4: so important and we need that immediate action, like you suggested,

178
00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,280
Speaker 4: at this point, what you've given us is everything that

179
00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,880
Speaker 4: needs to be done to our child or for our child,

180
00:08:41,320 --> 00:08:45,480
Speaker 4: and I think the next step has to be how

181
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:47,560
Speaker 4: do we work with our child. You talk about the

182
00:08:47,600 --> 00:08:51,160
Speaker 4: three ease of discipline, and I think that this really

183
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:57,120
Speaker 4: touches beautifully with how do we now tap into a

184
00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:01,480
Speaker 4: place of curiosity to explore what is going on for

185
00:09:01,520 --> 00:09:04,679
Speaker 4: our child, what is kind of causing this behavior, and

186
00:09:04,720 --> 00:09:10,600
Speaker 4: then explaining why this behavior is int appropriate, and then

187
00:09:10,679 --> 00:09:12,720
Speaker 4: exploring how we can empower him.

188
00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:13,520
Speaker 1: Yeah.

189
00:09:13,559 --> 00:09:16,080
Speaker 2: So part of me wants to say this should be

190
00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:18,840
Speaker 2: the process from the beginning, But the reason I stepped

191
00:09:18,880 --> 00:09:22,640
Speaker 2: in with direction immediately is because of the seriousness of

192
00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,800
Speaker 2: the situation. Yeah, I agree, just got to nip in

193
00:09:24,840 --> 00:09:26,520
Speaker 2: the butt. You've got to make it really clear there's

194
00:09:26,520 --> 00:09:27,720
Speaker 2: a boundary, it's been crossed.

195
00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:28,520
Speaker 1: You can't do that.

196
00:09:29,120 --> 00:09:32,079
Speaker 2: But once emotions have settled, once everyone's feeling better, You're

197
00:09:32,120 --> 00:09:33,880
Speaker 2: exactly right. This is the kind of thing where we

198
00:09:33,880 --> 00:09:35,640
Speaker 2: sit down and say, hey, bud, where's this coming from?

199
00:09:35,679 --> 00:09:38,439
Speaker 2: Like this is not what any of your friends do,

200
00:09:38,480 --> 00:09:40,599
Speaker 2: this is not what other seven year olds.

201
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 4: Do, and you've seen other people doing this, Like, yeah.

202
00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:44,560
Speaker 1: Where is it coming from?

203
00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,920
Speaker 2: And by doing a really deep dive on this exploring,

204
00:09:48,679 --> 00:09:50,280
Speaker 2: that's where we're going to start to probably make the

205
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:54,560
Speaker 2: most progress and be more effective in long term limits setting.

206
00:09:55,760 --> 00:09:58,400
Speaker 2: The thing that you're probably going to come across here, though,

207
00:09:58,440 --> 00:10:00,040
Speaker 2: is you've got a someone who's going to say, I

208
00:10:00,080 --> 00:10:01,839
Speaker 2: don't know, going to shrug shoulder, is going to get

209
00:10:01,840 --> 00:10:04,280
Speaker 2: really defensive and going to be absolutely terrified of getting

210
00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:04,720
Speaker 2: in trouble.

211
00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,360
Speaker 1: So this is where I start to speculate.

212
00:10:07,400 --> 00:10:09,679
Speaker 2: Elizabeth hasn't given us any indication that is going on,

213
00:10:09,760 --> 00:10:11,640
Speaker 2: and it may not have been going on, but here

214
00:10:11,679 --> 00:10:16,640
Speaker 2: are my primary suspicions with this kind of behavior. Typically,

215
00:10:16,679 --> 00:10:18,880
Speaker 2: this has learned behavior. This is a model behavior. It's

216
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:20,760
Speaker 2: not the sort of stuff that kids just invent, although

217
00:10:20,840 --> 00:10:22,000
Speaker 2: sometimes they can.

218
00:10:22,440 --> 00:10:23,400
Speaker 1: So let's start with the.

219
00:10:23,400 --> 00:10:25,800
Speaker 2: Sometimes that they can, and then we'll go into, Unfortunately,

220
00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,320
Speaker 2: the darker things that could be going on. There are

221
00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,000
Speaker 2: some kids who are naturally more exploratory. They haven't learned

222
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,320
Speaker 2: appropriate limits, they don't know how to regulate, they're not

223
00:10:33,360 --> 00:10:37,720
Speaker 2: big on inhibition, they're curious, and they don't either understand

224
00:10:37,760 --> 00:10:41,360
Speaker 2: or respect personal boundaries. If this is your son, maybe

225
00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:44,000
Speaker 2: there's some kind of neurological challenge that's going on, some

226
00:10:44,040 --> 00:10:47,640
Speaker 2: sort of learning issue. Again we don't have details. Then

227
00:10:48,040 --> 00:10:52,840
Speaker 2: there is a different pathway to help than the one

228
00:10:52,880 --> 00:10:54,800
Speaker 2: that I'm focused on in terms of going and getting

229
00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,760
Speaker 2: professional help because there's some deviant behavior here. It may

230
00:10:57,760 --> 00:11:00,920
Speaker 2: simply be that there are inhibition and regular TIS concerns.

231
00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 2: I hope that's what it is. I really do. My

232
00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,000
Speaker 2: deeper concern is that we've got a seven year old

233
00:11:07,040 --> 00:11:12,720
Speaker 2: boy who has been exposed to troubling sexual behavior in

234
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:14,760
Speaker 2: one of a couple of ways. Either it's been modeled

235
00:11:14,760 --> 00:11:16,959
Speaker 2: by what he's seen on a screen, or it's been

236
00:11:17,000 --> 00:11:20,800
Speaker 2: modeled by what has been done to him. There are

237
00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,000
Speaker 2: all kinds of external influences that are out there. Kids

238
00:11:24,040 --> 00:11:27,000
Speaker 2: copy what they observe. If they've seen inappropriate touching in

239
00:11:27,040 --> 00:11:31,200
Speaker 2: the media or at home or elsewhere, then they might

240
00:11:31,360 --> 00:11:34,600
Speaker 2: replicate it without really understanding why it's wrong. They'll know

241
00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:37,920
Speaker 2: that it's wrong, but they won't understand why. We know

242
00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:40,800
Speaker 2: that the average age of exposure to explicit content pornography

243
00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:42,920
Speaker 2: is around the age of eleven in Australia. The data

244
00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,760
Speaker 2: is not strong, it's not good quality data. But even

245
00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,880
Speaker 2: if it's right, fifty percent of kids under the age

246
00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:53,320
Speaker 2: of eleven are being exposed to pornography. It shows unhealthy

247
00:11:53,320 --> 00:11:57,120
Speaker 2: power dynamics. It can normalize inappropriate behavior before kids have

248
00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,400
Speaker 2: any idea at all of what they're seeing that is

249
00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:04,920
Speaker 2: a problem. And there is the awful risk that maybe

250
00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,840
Speaker 2: somebody has touched him or modeled that behavior for him,

251
00:12:09,240 --> 00:12:11,240
Speaker 2: or even just talked about it because he's been hanging

252
00:12:11,280 --> 00:12:13,600
Speaker 2: around with big kids in the neighborhood, up the street,

253
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:17,920
Speaker 2: on camp, at school, on the bus, those kinds of things.

254
00:12:18,559 --> 00:12:21,040
Speaker 2: There's one more place that this could have come from, Kylie.

255
00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,120
Speaker 2: And again I'm uncomfortable sharing this, but it's a reality

256
00:12:25,160 --> 00:12:27,120
Speaker 2: that there are some kids who are just born with

257
00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,880
Speaker 2: what's known as a dark triad of personality traits. So

258
00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:37,439
Speaker 2: this is narcissism, machiavellianism, and psychopathy or sociopathy. It's pretty

259
00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:39,520
Speaker 2: rare that you see a seven year old sociopath, right,

260
00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:42,560
Speaker 2: but every now and again you'll find children who have

261
00:12:42,679 --> 00:12:46,600
Speaker 2: tendencies towards this. If this sort of behavior, not necessarily

262
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,200
Speaker 2: the sexual behavior, but if there's this narcissistic or aggressive

263
00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:53,440
Speaker 2: behavior or other people playing out across contexts.

264
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,200
Speaker 1: Then that's what it could be. Here's the reality.

265
00:12:55,280 --> 00:12:57,680
Speaker 2: Some boys test boundaries so that they can feel important

266
00:12:57,720 --> 00:13:01,080
Speaker 2: and feel in control, and what looks like actually explorative

267
00:13:01,080 --> 00:13:06,520
Speaker 2: behavior might actually be dominance behavior. So they're seeking status

268
00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:09,560
Speaker 2: through making other people feel uncomfortable and try to get

269
00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:10,520
Speaker 2: reactions that way.

270
00:13:11,000 --> 00:13:13,000
Speaker 4: So I don't want to make light of anything that

271
00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:16,360
Speaker 4: you've said. But my one concern for this little seven

272
00:13:16,440 --> 00:13:19,600
Speaker 4: year old boy is he number one gets labeled and

273
00:13:19,720 --> 00:13:24,559
Speaker 4: number two gets treated differently, which actually in essence makes

274
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,240
Speaker 4: him feel worse about himself, right, And therefore he will

275
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:33,680
Speaker 4: continue to act out in various ways because that's almost

276
00:13:33,679 --> 00:13:37,320
Speaker 4: become the expectation of who he is now. So the

277
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:41,720
Speaker 4: only thing as a mother I would be suggesting, it's

278
00:13:41,840 --> 00:13:45,120
Speaker 4: just be cautious about how you move forward with this

279
00:13:45,559 --> 00:13:47,600
Speaker 4: in relation to how other people deal with him. Like

280
00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:50,040
Speaker 4: in the school setting, I've just watched it too many times.

281
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:54,280
Speaker 4: This child gets ostracized from teachers, right, which then plays

282
00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:55,280
Speaker 4: out in the playground.

283
00:13:55,520 --> 00:13:59,040
Speaker 2: It just yeah, yeah, I was pretty soft on whether

284
00:13:59,120 --> 00:14:01,760
Speaker 2: or not you should or shouldn't get help. My initial

285
00:14:01,800 --> 00:14:04,160
Speaker 2: thought is address it, deal with it, and if it stops,

286
00:14:04,160 --> 00:14:07,319
Speaker 2: your good. But if there is repeated behavior, if you

287
00:14:07,360 --> 00:14:09,600
Speaker 2: find out that he's got an Internet search history, that's

288
00:14:09,640 --> 00:14:11,880
Speaker 2: problematic if you find out. But pretty much everything that

289
00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:17,120
Speaker 2: I've talked about the status seeking behavior, the challenges neurologically

290
00:14:17,240 --> 00:14:19,280
Speaker 2: if there are any of those. The external influence is

291
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:23,400
Speaker 2: the possibility that he's engaging in viewing explicit behavior or

292
00:14:23,440 --> 00:14:26,480
Speaker 2: has been touched. Every single one of those things makes

293
00:14:26,560 --> 00:14:28,320
Speaker 2: me think you need to get professional help.

294
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:33,000
Speaker 4: And that's an absolute like please, don't get me wrong,

295
00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,640
Speaker 4: this has to be addressed. But the way we address

296
00:14:36,680 --> 00:14:38,680
Speaker 4: it actually is more important.

297
00:14:39,520 --> 00:14:42,720
Speaker 2: Then It's not about putting a label on the Labels

298
00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:46,040
Speaker 2: belong on jars, not on people. So again the steps

299
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:48,440
Speaker 2: just to be clear. Address it in the home. Initially,

300
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,960
Speaker 2: do some exploratory work once you've just drawn that wine

301
00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:54,400
Speaker 2: in the sand. So make sure that he knows nothing

302
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:55,960
Speaker 2: he can tell you. Nothing he can tell he was

303
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:57,960
Speaker 2: going to make you stop loving him. You love him

304
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:00,320
Speaker 2: much more than anything that he could tell you will

305
00:15:00,320 --> 00:15:03,400
Speaker 2: be safe. He's got to know. The conversation literally goes

306
00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,760
Speaker 2: like this, I want to ask you some hard questions.

307
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:08,480
Speaker 2: I want you to know no matter what you tell me,

308
00:15:09,200 --> 00:15:11,600
Speaker 2: you can literally tell me absolutely anything and I will

309
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,360
Speaker 2: still love you. You are not in trouble, you are

310
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:17,400
Speaker 2: only surrounded by love and goodness, and we want to

311
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,080
Speaker 2: help you. But I've got to ask you these hard questions,

312
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,200
Speaker 2: and then ask questions about whether he's viewed pornography, whether

313
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:23,760
Speaker 2: somebody at school has shown it to himor whether he's

314
00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,160
Speaker 2: watching at home, whether somebody's ever touched him, whether the

315
00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:28,840
Speaker 2: kids at school are talking about sexually explicit things and

316
00:15:28,880 --> 00:15:34,080
Speaker 2: he's decided to act out on it. Ask the direct questions. Reassure, reassure, reassure,

317
00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:35,720
Speaker 2: you're not in trouble. We love you too much to

318
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:37,320
Speaker 2: get you in trouble, but we do need to help

319
00:15:37,360 --> 00:15:39,640
Speaker 2: you to stop doing this, And also ask him, how

320
00:15:39,640 --> 00:15:43,520
Speaker 2: do you feel about touching girls and lifting skirts and

321
00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:46,120
Speaker 2: doing these things? How does it make you feel so

322
00:15:46,120 --> 00:15:48,200
Speaker 2: that you can really get an understanding of what's going on?

323
00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:50,240
Speaker 4: And how do you think other people are feeling when

324
00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:53,520
Speaker 4: you're doing it to them or when they're watching right,

325
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,840
Speaker 4: they're watching this happen, How do they feel about you?

326
00:15:55,880 --> 00:15:59,200
Speaker 4: How are they going to interact with you in the future. Like, yeah,

327
00:15:59,320 --> 00:16:00,680
Speaker 4: perspective is huge.

328
00:16:00,720 --> 00:16:03,240
Speaker 2: If you can stop it here and now, then it

329
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:05,880
Speaker 2: doesn't need to go further. But if there is anything

330
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:10,200
Speaker 2: that comes up in terms of modeling, abuse, viewing explicit

331
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:16,800
Speaker 2: material in an ongoing way, status seeking, dominance, misogyny, or

332
00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:23,200
Speaker 2: a neurological challenge, then you absolutely need professional help. Tricky question, Elizabeth,

333
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:24,920
Speaker 2: We hope that was helpful. Thank you very much for

334
00:16:24,960 --> 00:16:27,280
Speaker 2: asking the question. If you would like to submit your

335
00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:30,760
Speaker 2: tricky question, we've got that super simple system at happy families.

336
00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:31,720
Speaker 1: Dot com dot you.

337
00:16:31,720 --> 00:16:34,280
Speaker 2: You literally press the record button and start talking, or

338
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:37,400
Speaker 2: send us a voice note to podcasts at happy families

339
00:16:37,600 --> 00:16:41,920
Speaker 2: dot com dot au. The Happy Families podcast is produced

340
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:44,640
Speaker 2: by Justin Ruland from Bridge Media. More information and more

341
00:16:44,680 --> 00:16:48,120
Speaker 2: resources for making your family happier are available at happy

342
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:49,440
Speaker 2: families dot com dot you