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Speaker 1: Joining me in the studio right now. Well is the

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Speaker 1: Minister for Veterans Affairs and also Police Brent Potter.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: Now, Brent, I understand you've already been at some of

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Speaker 1: the commemorations this morning for the bombing of Darwin.

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Speaker 2: There is a lot planned for this morning.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, it is, and it's a very special day for

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Speaker 3: the territory and it should be a national day of remembments,

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Speaker 3: I believe. So I was at the uss Pirie Memorial

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Speaker 3: this morning and then we'll go down to the waterfront,

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Speaker 3: not the Esplanade, the waterfront for the Bombing of Darwin

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Speaker 3: ceremony at about nine point thirty.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, there had been a bit of confusion.

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Speaker 1: We did have the mayor on on Friday outlining exactly

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Speaker 1: where it's going to be happening and what's going on,

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Speaker 1: but there was still a bit of confusion this morning.

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Speaker 1: So definitely going to the waterfront, that is where it's

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Speaker 1: happening today.

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Speaker 3: Going to the waterfront for your listeners, do.

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Speaker 2: You reckon it should be a public holiday?

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Speaker 1: Oh?

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Speaker 3: Listen, I'm not going to be one to advocate because

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Speaker 3: I know as soon as you say public holiday, business

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Speaker 3: small business and it hurts them. I do think though,

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Speaker 3: when we look at some of the public holidays, this

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Speaker 3: would have a justification to be one. At the very least,

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Speaker 3: it needs to be a nationally recognized day and it

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Speaker 3: does need to be taught in our schools because I

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Speaker 3: think we talk about a lot of other try's military history,

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Speaker 3: we don't talk about enough of our own.

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Speaker 1: As a former defense member, how important do you think

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Speaker 1: today is and how important do you think it is

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Speaker 1: that we do pause and remember the lives lost, but

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Speaker 1: also you know the impact that the bombing of Darwin

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Speaker 1: had on our great city. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, And for those that don't know, I did serve

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Speaker 3: and I did go to Afghanistan, and I think being

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Speaker 3: based in Darwin and seeing the bombing of dah and

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Speaker 3: ceremonies and living that history, it makes it even more

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Speaker 3: special when you get the chance to put your uniform

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Speaker 3: on and serve your country. But I think it's for

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Speaker 3: every territory and we know how special it is. I

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Speaker 3: think the rest of the country needs to understand how

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Speaker 3: important it is. You know, more bombs were dropped on

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Speaker 3: Northern Australia than was dropped on Pearl Harbor. It's just

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Speaker 3: that we were so dispersed, and we obviously had the

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Speaker 3: USS period their whole crew go down here in Darwen,

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Speaker 3: and we had two hundred and forty three. I could

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Speaker 3: be wrong with a two hundred and forty three territorians

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Speaker 3: lose their life on that day, so quite significant and

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Speaker 3: the first time that the mainland had ever been attacked.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, it is such an important day and I

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Speaker 1: know that there'll be a lot of people listening this

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Speaker 1: morning who have different ways that they would like to

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Speaker 1: commemorate this morning. So if you do want to send us,

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Speaker 1: you'll give us a call. We always love hearing from you.

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Speaker 1: But look, a week is certainly a long time in politics,

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Speaker 1: as they say, and that was very evident last week.

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Speaker 1: Now the Chief Minister started the week outlining her vision

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Speaker 1: for the Northern Territory in her year ahead speech, before

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Speaker 1: headlines were dominated by Chancey Paike Shares scandal and calls

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Speaker 1: for the Deputy Chief Minister to stand down now.

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Speaker 2: He's dug his heels in.

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Speaker 1: Despite revelations on Friday that Matt met Cash was one

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Speaker 1: of seventeen Panel contractors to win tenders with a combined

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Speaker 1: title of up to seventy million dollars to deliver and

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Speaker 1: supply products to hospitals and correctional facilities across the Northern Territory. Now,

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Speaker 1: while that tender is managed by the Department of Health,

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Speaker 1: the tender itself says that the Department of Health and

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Speaker 1: Department of Attorney General and Justice have a requirement for

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Speaker 1: the supply and delivery of food products to hospitals and

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Speaker 1: correctional facilities. Now, just when you thought things couldn't get

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Speaker 1: much worse for the government, though, we learned on Friday

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Speaker 1: that the colp's member for Braitlang was involved in a

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Speaker 1: car crash in August last year and is now facing charges. Minister,

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Speaker 1: the situation with the Member for Brakling is sounding more

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Speaker 1: serious by the day. The leader of the Opposition on

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Speaker 1: Friday confirmed that she knew about the incident when it happened,

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Speaker 1: but for some reason they chose to keep it quiet.

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Speaker 1: What's your understanding of this incident?

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Speaker 3: Obviously I only know what is in the public domain,

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Speaker 3: and I think that is the point. Leah says one thing,

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Speaker 3: she has a set of standards and rules that she

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Speaker 3: lives by, and then she has another set for territorians.

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Speaker 3: Been close to four days and she's not come out

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Speaker 3: and spoken to your show, she's not front of the media,

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Speaker 3: she's not got an ABC Josh Bergorn has not come

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Speaker 3: out and spoken about it. They release a paper statement

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Speaker 3: only after the ABC initially questioned them. Territorians deserve her

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Speaker 3: to come out and tell us what the actual information

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Speaker 3: and truth of it is. But if it is something

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Speaker 3: like dangerous driving, alleged dangerous driving that causes harm, that's

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Speaker 3: a serious offense. And the fact that we're talking about

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Speaker 3: going to court proceedings means he has something to potentially

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Speaker 3: answer for. And obviously it's alleged until proven otherwise. But

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Speaker 3: why didn't they just come out and say that.

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Speaker 1: Well, that's what I can't wrap my head around. I

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Speaker 1: think to myself. You know, sometimes things like this are unavoidable.

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Speaker 1: I don't know exactly what has gone on with this crash,

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Speaker 1: but what I do know is that when you're opening

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Speaker 1: up front, and when you're on the front foot with

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Speaker 1: something going on, you're certainly gonner. I think a lot

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Speaker 1: more sympathy or a lot more understanding from the public.

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Speaker 1: So I can't understand why they've not been opening up frontier.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think, and you can acknowledge this that chance.

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Speaker 3: He obviously last week had some issues that he had

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Speaker 3: to talk through. We came out Monday morning, the Chief

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Speaker 3: Minister myself. Then he came out that afternoon and did

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Speaker 3: the press gallery, and then the next day he was

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Speaker 3: on your show and ABC and then on the Friday again,

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Speaker 3: you've got another chance to have a chat to him.

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Speaker 3: Not once has Leah or Josh Burgoyne come out and

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Speaker 3: spoken to territories and answered the questions. They are hiding

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Speaker 3: something from us, Why not just come out and own it?

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Speaker 1: Well, do we need a request to get him on

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Speaker 1: the show today? We were told that wasn't going to happen.

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Speaker 1: We are due to have Leo Finocchiaro on the show

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Speaker 1: tomorrow morning, so I certainly host for six days. There

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Speaker 1: is going on be some questions answered. I mean at

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Speaker 1: the end of the day here, like even I've got

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Speaker 1: somebody messaging through saying Katie, it's interesting that it's that

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Speaker 1: there is only now looking like charges are going to

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Speaker 1: be laid six months later.

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Speaker 2: Why is that? Why would that be the case.

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Speaker 3: I suspect police were investigating over that period of time,

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Speaker 3: and I know nothing more than the public does. But

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Speaker 3: what I can tell is if police have been investigating

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Speaker 3: that whole time, there would have been back and forward

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Speaker 3: conversations between police and Josh Burt are burgling, and then

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Speaker 3: there would have absolutely surely been discussions between Josh's talking

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Speaker 3: to Leah, and Lea and her team have made conscious

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Speaker 3: decision not to tell Terrritoriins. This is the twenty twelve

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Speaker 3: to twenty sixteen.

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Speaker 2: Polas do you first find out about it?

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Speaker 3: I found out on Thursday night on ABC. That was

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Speaker 3: the first time.

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Speaker 2: First Jude heard of it as well.

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Speaker 3: I was shocked, and to be honest, they all seemed

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Speaker 3: a bit flat that afternoon on the other side, and

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Speaker 3: we thought maybe end of sittings that was why. But

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Speaker 3: I suspect it's now now because the ABC HADOK questions

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Speaker 3: to me.

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Speaker 1: So, what do you think needs to happen here? I mean,

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Speaker 1: as the Minister for Police, what do you think needs.

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Speaker 2: To happen here?

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Speaker 3: Well, let me tell you what I would if this

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Speaker 3: was me and his position, I would have come out

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Speaker 3: on day DOT. I would have put a post out

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Speaker 3: on Facebook or a media statement saying I've been involved

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Speaker 3: in a car accident. I will keep Territoriins abreast of

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Speaker 3: what has occurred and I'll work with police. He didn't

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Speaker 3: do that then she and then Leah f Andociarra has

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Speaker 3: not done that once since then until last. So what

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Speaker 3: she needs to do is come out front the media,

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Speaker 3: put everything on the table, talk about the timeline from

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Speaker 3: when she was told to now. It needs to be

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Speaker 3: very clear and transparent and easy for territoriins to understand

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Speaker 3: and let territorians be the judge of what needs to

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Speaker 3: happen going forward.

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Speaker 2: Do you think he can stay in his position?

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Speaker 3: Listen? I think if there is criminal charges and alleged

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Speaker 3: criminal to activity, If there is charges and found guilty,

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Speaker 3: then I would be questioning his ability to remain as

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Speaker 3: a public So I.

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Speaker 1: Mean the thing is, though, this is potentially going to

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Speaker 1: be a long drawn out process. I mean the fact

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Speaker 1: that he's not been charged for sort of six months

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Speaker 1: indicates just how drawn out this process could be. We

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Speaker 1: know the courts are incredibly busy at the moment, so

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Speaker 1: this could be very drawn out. If once if because

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Speaker 1: have the charge has actually been laid.

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Speaker 3: Yet, well that's again we all need Lee to come

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Speaker 3: out and tell us what has actually occurred, because I

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Speaker 3: don't get that information regardless of being the Minister for Police.

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Speaker 3: We're not involved, and rightly so they keep us separate.

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Speaker 3: She needs to come out and answer these questions. But

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Speaker 3: what I would say, if he is charged, or he's

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Speaker 3: going to be charged momentarily and there is a court

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Speaker 3: date set, the best thing he can do is temporarily

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Speaker 3: take a leave of absence. Take a leave of absence,

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Speaker 3: let it run its course. Let's get this separate from him.

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Speaker 3: The responsibility of someone to represent the members in Brakling

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Speaker 3: or the constituents of Brakling. She's called for many people

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Speaker 3: to resign, many people over time, and I reckon you

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Speaker 3: could go through the media of articles and pull up

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Speaker 3: recording she calls for everyone to resign when there's something Well,

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Speaker 3: now the shoes on the other foot, is she going

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Speaker 3: to live by what she says?

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Speaker 2: So are you saying that he should.

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Speaker 3: I'm saying you should at least consider and come out

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Speaker 3: and talk to territoriins and then let you know from

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Speaker 3: once we know the information will call for more. But

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Speaker 3: I suspect that the very least take a period of

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Speaker 3: absence so that we get an understanding of what's occurring

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Speaker 3: and ultimately to allow the judicial process to run its course.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Look, I think that I think that there is

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Speaker 1: definitely a lot of questions that remain unanswered here that

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Speaker 1: we need to get to the bottom.

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Speaker 3: I think the difference, and you don't get wrong with

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Speaker 3: obviously spoken about Chancey Paiker a week there is a

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Speaker 3: difference between a conflict of interests and potentially criminal outcomes,

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Speaker 3: like they are very different.

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Speaker 2: They are very different.

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Speaker 1: But look, I do want to go to the Chancey

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Speaker 1: Paik Shares scandal because looks it's not over either as far.

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Speaker 2: As I'm concerned.

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Speaker 1: You know, and we know now that it has been

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Speaker 1: revealed that met Cash was one of seventeen panel contractors. Well,

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Speaker 1: they were obviously one of those that we were set

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Speaker 1: to deliver or they were certainly given the contract one

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Speaker 1: of the contracts to deliver and supply food to correctional

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Speaker 1: facilities and health facilities across the Northern Territory. Now the

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Speaker 1: combined contracts worth up to seventy million dollars. Chancey said

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Speaker 1: on Friday that ministers are not involved in procurement. But

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Speaker 1: does this muddy the waters even further?

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Speaker 3: Well, let's be really clear minas, like you said, ministers

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Speaker 3: are not involved in any contract negotiations. They are not

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Speaker 3: involved in any procurement, so that was completely done by

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Speaker 3: the Department. Now I appreciate that doesn't look great in

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Speaker 3: the context of what we're talking about, and if anyone

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Speaker 3: has any indications of something else, and they can go

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Speaker 3: to the IKA because we established it for that reason.

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Speaker 3: But what I can tell you is chance he has

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Speaker 3: been very clear and coming forward and answering questions. Like

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Speaker 3: I said, he's come on your show, ABC, came back

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Speaker 3: on week that was he'll continue to front the media

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Speaker 3: and answer any questions.

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Speaker 1: Where a lot of people, though I was still calling

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Speaker 1: it out as BS myself, included.

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Speaker 3: Well, I can only I can only tell you what

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Speaker 3: I know, which is that the Department never engaged the

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Speaker 3: ministry in relation to contracts. That doesn't happen.

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Speaker 1: But I mean in terms of the shares scandal, in

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Speaker 1: terms of the purchasing of those shares, we know that

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Speaker 1: they've now been sold. Like a lot of questions still

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Speaker 1: remain unanswered about whether he truly did declear that conflict

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Speaker 1: of interest when he was walking into those cabinet meetings.

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Speaker 3: And obviously I wasn't in cabinet at the time, I

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Speaker 3: was a backbencher. But what I can tell you is

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Speaker 3: that the cabinet process, when you sit in the room,

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Speaker 3: the very first discussion that comes out of the chief ministries.

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Speaker 3: Are there any conflicts in relation to what's being discussed,

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Speaker 3: and so you go through that. But just to put it, being.

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Speaker 1: Able to answer that yes or no, that must be

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Speaker 1: getting frustrating for you guys, for the rest of the

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Speaker 1: team going this is just hanging over us.

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Speaker 3: This is the question would be was there ever a

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Speaker 3: discussion around younger futures. It wasn't our legislation.

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Speaker 1: I understand that, but there is definitely alcohol legislation, and

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Speaker 1: there is other legislation.

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Speaker 3: And I guess what I would say, is there And

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Speaker 3: I think this has raised a wider issue around conflicts

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Speaker 3: of interest. You know, the opposition had shares in the

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Speaker 3: gas companies and they were voting on the floor of

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Speaker 3: Parliament in support.

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Speaker 2: Of Look I'm talking about you, guys.

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Speaker 3: I'm going to bring it back just because you have

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Speaker 3: shares in a company that he disclosed for two years.

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Speaker 3: Like it wasn't like randomly popped up. He had disclosed

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Speaker 3: them for two years on the registrar.

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Speaker 1: But two months before the stronger futures legislation was ending,

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Speaker 1: he purchased those. It's like you can understand rights.

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Speaker 3: Shying away from this. I absolutely understand how it looks

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Speaker 3: to Territorians. What I'm telling Territorians is we don't get

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Speaker 3: involved in contracts as the minister, and he's made it

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Speaker 3: very clear that he there was no discussion around stronger future.

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Speaker 1: Can you see though, how some listening might be thinking

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Speaker 1: to themselves, well, he was privy to more information than

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Speaker 1: what a normal person would be.

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think even as backbench as you are

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Speaker 3: privy to more information, and as the opposition you get

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Speaker 3: you get briefs from all these companies as the opposition,

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Speaker 3: so they knew, for example, the opposition would know that

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Speaker 3: Santos is putting money into Brosso, that other businesses were

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Speaker 3: putting money into gas. So it is something we have

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Speaker 3: to manage as a parliament and either has committed to

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Speaker 3: a full review and change in the way we do it.

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Speaker 1: Look Caroline from Catherine's dismissaged through, she said, mister Potter

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Speaker 1: Chancey only came out and fronted after he was called

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Speaker 1: out by the NT Independent.

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Speaker 3: That's my whole point I'm saying here that when you

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Speaker 3: are asked to come and answer questions you come and

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Speaker 3: answer questions, and that's what he's done. I mean, he's

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Speaker 3: not going to come out three weeks ago when because

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Speaker 3: they were declared they were. The reason the NT Independent

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Speaker 3: was able to find the shares is because Chancey Paig

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Speaker 3: had them on his disclosure form that anyone in the

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Speaker 3: public can go on accent.

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Speaker 1: So I suppose the point that you were trying to

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Speaker 1: make though with the Josh Bergoin situation is that he's

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Speaker 1: not come out in front foot at it.

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Speaker 3: Not once. He's not come out once. And I mean,

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Speaker 3: like I said, if I was in his position, I

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Speaker 3: would have done an immediately, done a Facebook post or

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Speaker 3: a public statement says I've been in a car accident.

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Speaker 3: I owned it early. It's the standard you live by.

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Speaker 3: And he could have done that and then for six

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Speaker 3: months nothing more would have had to have been said

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Speaker 3: because there was no potentially charges. Now we know there's charges,

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Speaker 3: and only because there's now potentially charges and a court hearing,

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Speaker 3: he's come out and given a written statement, not once

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Speaker 3: front of the media.

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Speaker 1: Look, like I said, there are questions still that remain unanswered.

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Speaker 1: But I don't think that things are over either for

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Speaker 1: the Labour Party at this point in time in terms

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Speaker 1: of the chance he paid shares scandal.

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Speaker 3: And I'm cognizant right now territories have probably had a

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Speaker 3: gutfull of s some scans like this is why I'm

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Speaker 3: sitting here going we'll own our mistakes from day I've said,

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Speaker 3: that's what I'll do as a minister. I own the

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Speaker 3: mistakes that I haven't and collectively she just needs to

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Speaker 3: come out and known it because he is a taste

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Speaker 3: of what you get with the CLP government where they

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Speaker 3: just won't front the media.

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Speaker 1: Well, I guess though others will be listening thinking, hang

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Speaker 1: on a sec. You've got a minister who's purchased shares

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Speaker 1: in a company that thinn is winning fairly large tenders

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Speaker 1: and they're feeling as though, you know, there could be

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Speaker 1: conflicts there as well.

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Speaker 3: And I get the perception now is that that people

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Speaker 3: think that there was a conflict or there's some undertones

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Speaker 3: there and hence why they've now sold it. Or what

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Speaker 3: I would say is four hundred dollars in shares he

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Speaker 3: sold them. He sold them when he became chief deput

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Speaker 3: Chief Minister and the reason for that is the deputy

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Speaker 3: chief you sometimes have to cover off other portfolios, and

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Speaker 3: he made a cognizant decision and said, there is a

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Speaker 3: real chance of a conflict by me having these shares,

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Speaker 3: and he sold his portfolio.

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Speaker 1: All right, I'm going to have to move it frong

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Speaker 1: because on Friday you're out having a look at this

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Speaker 1: new police case management system sir PRO, which has been

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Speaker 1: rolled out to police across the Northern Territory. The new

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Speaker 1: system indeed replaces promise which was well, it was certainly old.

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Speaker 2: It was outdated.

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Speaker 1: When I worked in the Police Media unit, I know

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Speaker 1: that it was very clunky, and that was twenty years ago.

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Speaker 1: How has the rollout of that system gone.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, listen, no digital transformation is without its barriers, hurdles

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Speaker 3: and frustrations because you're changing twenty five years of people

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Speaker 3: the way they've worked. But what it will do is

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Speaker 3: that it will create a more efficient and true reflection

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Speaker 3: of crime statistics. And to give you one example, when

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Speaker 3: we talk about offenses against the person, offenses against the

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Speaker 3: person are very high in the Northern Territory, but that

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Speaker 3: included like alcohol offenses, firearm offenses, traffic offenses and on

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Speaker 3: the old system you would have to put in the

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Speaker 3: victim being the Crown that would then create an offense under,

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Speaker 3: for example, offense against the person. So, as I said

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Speaker 3: the other day, because the system's changed and the way

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Speaker 3: that it categorizes information, you're going to see a decline

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Speaker 3: in crimes against the offenses against the person. It doesn't

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Speaker 3: mean crime isn't occurring. It's just the way that the

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Speaker 3: system identifies information. And that's where I came out last

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Speaker 3: week owning it early to say we're not hiding anything,

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Speaker 3: just a different system records.

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Speaker 1: It is going to mean though, that that data collection

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Speaker 1: is different, like you've just touched on, and that we're

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Speaker 1: no longer able to do the year on year with

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Speaker 1: the crime stats.

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Speaker 3: You will be able to do month or months since

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Speaker 3: we've taken over, and then in twelve months time you'll

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Speaker 3: be able to do year on year. Just because the

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Speaker 3: way it records the offense has changed, doesn't mean the

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Speaker 3: offense is not recorded. It's just recorded.

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Speaker 2: I guess it.

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Speaker 1: Means that you know you're not able to go all right, well,

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Speaker 1: the crime stats this quarter are the worse they've been

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Speaker 1: in fifteen years.

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Speaker 3: No, but we have other mechanisms to identify. That's a

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Speaker 3: cause for assistance to police and how many jobs they

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Speaker 3: attend and then register as an offense the court system,

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Speaker 3: and I understand people will be going, well, we want

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Speaker 3: to be able to compare and guess what I absolutely

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Speaker 3: want to as the Minister as we because I'm justifying

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Speaker 3: resources in cabinet for police based on need and I

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Speaker 3: can't compare that now. What I can compare is from

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Speaker 3: November through to now and then come November this year

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Speaker 3: we'll be able to compare a year.

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Speaker 1: On you a couple of really quick ones because I

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Speaker 1: know you've got to get to the bombing of Darwin commemorations.

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Speaker 1: But the Association has said that the new system's clunky

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Speaker 1: and it's slowing offices down.

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Speaker 2: How's that going to be worked through?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so we need to get more equipment into the

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Speaker 3: cars so that people don't have The whole point is

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Speaker 3: so they don't actually have to go back to the

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Speaker 3: office to do the work. And I was in Army

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Speaker 3: when we went from paper and pins on a board

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Speaker 3: to digital. It took us twelve months to get there.

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Speaker 3: And the only way to do it is more technical

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Speaker 3: support when the officers need it. And we've extended that

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Speaker 3: provision in the call center for for another six months.

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Speaker 3: I believe to support them.

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Speaker 1: Are you're potentially going to be able to lift different

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Speaker 1: data though from this system, ie youth crime, absolutely.

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Speaker 3: Well in specific ones. I'm unsure of youth crime specifically,

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Speaker 3: but I know that we will get a better reflection.

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Speaker 3: Like I said, I'll give you an example assault. Previously

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Speaker 3: there was one assault in the system, for promise, but

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Speaker 3: now there are multiple categories of assaults, so we'll get

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Speaker 3: a better undering of the types of assaults as an example,

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Speaker 3: which then means we actually can probably target the root

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Speaker 3: causes better.

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Speaker 1: So would we be able to search through and go, Okay, well,

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Speaker 1: this property offense has occurred, the people arrested were youths

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Speaker 1: and be able to break down some of that.

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Speaker 3: I would assume so, because I'm already getting percentage data

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Speaker 3: around youth crime versus adult etc. For property. But I'm

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Speaker 3: more than happy to take you through and have a

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Speaker 3: look at serpra yourself. You want to come in so

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Speaker 3: you can talk to listeners about what it's like.

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I don't know that that's going to help

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Speaker 2: in much way.

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Speaker 1: It's probably more going to be useful if they actually

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Speaker 1: get the data this thereafter, you know, to find out

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Speaker 1: where the stats, whether whether there are actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: an increase in youth crime or not. And look, I

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Speaker 1: do want to talk to you further about youth crime,

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Speaker 1: but we've run out of time. I'm keen to catch

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Speaker 1: up with you again very soon about that though, particularly

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Speaker 1: with these changes that the government announced when it comes

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Speaker 1: to the review of youth crime, but also some of.

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Speaker 2: What's going on in Queensland. So I might say that

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Speaker 2: for another time If that works.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we'll see how we go. Brent Potter, good to

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Speaker 1: speak with you this morning. Appreciate your time.