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Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the

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Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.

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Speaker 2: Now, I believe that the world would be such a nicer,

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Speaker 2: more peaceful place if we actually were more respectful of

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Speaker 2: one another.

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Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, My mom

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Speaker 1: and Dad Good.

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Speaker 3: It's doctor Justin Colson, the author of six books about

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Speaker 3: raising happy families and the founder of happy Families dot

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Speaker 3: com dot A. I'm here with Kylie, my co host,

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Speaker 3: my wife Mum to our six daughters. Let's talk about

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Speaker 3: manners because we've had a question from someone saying, how

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Speaker 3: am I supposed to teach my kid's manners? My two

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Speaker 3: year old, my three year old, they've got such bad manners.

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Speaker 3: They scream and they shout, they throw their food. How

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Speaker 3: do we teach kids manners?

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Speaker 2: There is something so delightful about watching a two year

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Speaker 2: old say thank you well peace mom. And it can

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Speaker 2: be very challenging for families to deal with this, and

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Speaker 2: yet in so many ways it can be really, really easy.

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Speaker 3: So let's talk about why men are important. Because I

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Speaker 3: come across parents from time to time who say I

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Speaker 3: don't make my kids say please and thank you. I'm

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Speaker 3: not really that interested in teaching my kid's manners. I

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Speaker 3: think that they should just be who they want to be.

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Speaker 3: Purpose of manners, what springs to mind for you?

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Speaker 2: I think one of the most important things about manners

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Speaker 2: is it shows a respect for the other people that

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Speaker 2: are in our lives and our spaces. It's very easy

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Speaker 2: for us to become very self centered and see the

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Speaker 2: world through very narrow glasses.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I reckon manners. Not only demaners demonstrate gratitude, but

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Speaker 3: they also show a respect for the humanity in another person.

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Speaker 3: It's like, I'm considering you, I'm aware of you, I'm

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Speaker 3: being respectful of you. And when we teach our children manners,

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Speaker 3: what we actually do is we teach them to put

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Speaker 3: other people at ease. When you watch some of those

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Speaker 3: crazy talk shows on the Telly, there's no manners. There's

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Speaker 3: no respect for the other person. It's just I've got

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Speaker 3: to tell you what I think, blah, and how it

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Speaker 3: comes comes out horribly. The other thought that I had

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Speaker 3: about why manners are important is we're now talking about

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Speaker 3: on a national level, the importance of conversations around consent.

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Speaker 2: I think this is a really, really big one, and

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Speaker 2: I think one of the things that stands out to

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Speaker 2: me most about this is while we want to teach

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Speaker 2: our children to respect other people, and specifically as children

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Speaker 2: respect the adults in their world, one of the most

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Speaker 2: important things through this post process is that we don't

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Speaker 2: actually squash their voice. We don't stop them from having

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Speaker 2: a voice. You know, when you talk about consent, most

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Speaker 2: of these children who are in really just difficult situations

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Speaker 2: find that they don't they don't know how to use

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Speaker 2: their voice because they've been taught to, you know, respect

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Speaker 2: their elders, to do as they're told.

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Speaker 3: Well, so you're saying that they've been taught to have manners, I.

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Speaker 2: Don't think this is a manner's conversation, because you can

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Speaker 2: be respectful but still have an opinion. You can be

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Speaker 2: respectful and still say no. I don't want to do that.

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Speaker 3: I would even argue though, when we talk to our

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Speaker 3: kids about this topic, I explicitly tell them you don't

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Speaker 3: have to be polite when you're saying no to somebody

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Speaker 3: when it comes to issues of consent, when it comes

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Speaker 3: to issues of your body, when somebody's putting pressure on you.

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Speaker 3: I'm not interested in you having good maners and saying

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Speaker 3: to let's say that boy at that party, would you

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Speaker 3: please leave me alone? I don't feel good about this,

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Speaker 3: or I'm uncomfortable.

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Speaker 4: No, no, but this starts.

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Speaker 2: This starts way earlier than that, because if they can't

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Speaker 2: have those respectful conversations, no I don't want to play

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Speaker 2: with you right now, or no, I don't want to

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Speaker 2: share my toy with you.

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Speaker 4: Or whatever it is. As they get.

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Speaker 2: Older and they build into more difficult situations, they don't

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Speaker 2: actually know how to express that. I think we've got

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Speaker 2: to allow our children an opportunity to actually express what

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Speaker 2: they're feeling.

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Speaker 3: Why do you think that manners are important?

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Speaker 2: Like?

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Speaker 3: Why manners?

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Speaker 2: I believe that the world would be such a nicer,

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Speaker 2: more peaceful place if we actually were more respectful of

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Speaker 2: one another. The reality that we live in this space

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Speaker 2: of massive diversity, and the recognition that every one of

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Speaker 2: us has a right to be here and to do

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Speaker 2: life our way. If we could just be more respectful,

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Speaker 2: I think that the world would just be such a

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Speaker 2: better place.

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Speaker 3: Right, So, manas are about respect. I look at manners

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Speaker 3: as I'm considering you. I'm mindful that so I'm thinking

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Speaker 3: on a train, Right, You're get on a train and

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Speaker 3: some people have telephone conversations on trains or in public

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Speaker 3: places on speakerphone so that the whole world can hear

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Speaker 3: this conversation's going on. And it's just so I don't

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Speaker 3: know how to say, it's just so rude. I don't

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Speaker 3: care about what's going on in your world. Please don't

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Speaker 3: broadcast it to everyone in the train carriage, or in

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Speaker 3: the shopping center, or in whatever it is. There's a

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Speaker 3: lack of consideration of others. It's disrespectful, it's not good manners.

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Speaker 3: So I think aligned with your respect idea is this consideration.

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Speaker 3: It shows that we're not the only people on the planet.

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Speaker 3: We know it, and we're being considerate of others. That's

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Speaker 3: what maners are all about.

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Speaker 2: So let's come back after the break and we're going

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Speaker 2: to talk about what manners actually matter and how do

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Speaker 2: we teach them.

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Speaker 1: It's their Happy Families podcast For.

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Speaker 2: A happier family, Try a Happy Families membership, because a

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Speaker 2: happy family doesn't just happen.

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Speaker 4: Details at happy families dot com dot au.

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Speaker 2: It's the Happy Families podcast, the podcast with the time

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Speaker 2: poor parent who just wants answers now, And today we

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Speaker 2: are talking man is. We've obviously talked about why man

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Speaker 2: is matter, this idea that we are a considerate of

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Speaker 2: other people around us, But what manners actually matter.

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Speaker 3: Well, I've put the lists together. I know that you've

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Speaker 3: been working on your own little list as well. I'm

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Speaker 3: going to start with table manners. I reckon. Once our

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Speaker 3: children are young, we want to teach them to learn

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Speaker 3: to use utensils, not fingers. I know that fingers were

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Speaker 3: invented before forks, but at some point the kids have

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Speaker 3: got to learn how to use their utensils, I reckon

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Speaker 3: somewhere around the age of three or four, we definitely

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Speaker 3: want them using at least a fork and hopefully a knife.

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Speaker 3: Fork in the left hand, knife in the right hand.

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Speaker 3: Let's actually correctly, and by the time they're about five,

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Speaker 3: most of the time most kids should be able to

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Speaker 3: manage it when we insist. Once they get a bit

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Speaker 3: older again, we can insist a little more. Next thing,

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Speaker 3: we've got to teach them that they do not wipe

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Speaker 3: their face on their clothes. That's what napkins and serviettes

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Speaker 3: are for. And can we just teach them to pass

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Speaker 3: things rather than reaching across Dad's plate and then dragging

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Speaker 3: their clothes through dad's food, you know, like their sleeve

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Speaker 3: and dropping the sauce on Dad's plate. Not that that's

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Speaker 3: ever happened to me. I don't want to sound like

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Speaker 3: I'm having a winch here.

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Speaker 2: Well, while we're at the dinner table, and we might

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Speaker 2: want to talk about bodily functions as well.

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Speaker 3: Yes, yes, hey, now, don't look at me there, I

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Speaker 3: am polite. I can't believe some of the sounds. I

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Speaker 3: didn't know girls could make, some of the sounds that

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Speaker 3: our daughters are demonstrated that they can make. That's una.

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Speaker 3: It's not very good manners that you're bringing that up

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Speaker 3: in this podcast. I don't think our daughters are going

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Speaker 3: to consent to that conversation. So what matters did you

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Speaker 3: have other than bodily functions being kept to oneself, which

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Speaker 3: was not on my lid.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think that gratitude, an opportunity to express thank

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Speaker 2: you is probably at the top of my list. This

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Speaker 2: changes the world gratitude?

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Speaker 3: Yep, what else?

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Speaker 2: Please?

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Speaker 3: Actually, I'm going to interrupt you interrupting there's one we

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Speaker 3: need to teach kids not to interrupt. Manners are very important.

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Speaker 3: Just before you go on with please, when it comes

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Speaker 3: to thank you, Teaching them to say thank you is

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Speaker 3: one thing, but also teaching them to write thank you

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Speaker 3: and give thank you notes, those kinds of things that

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Speaker 3: takes man as to a whole new level. And it's

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Speaker 3: never too young to start. Okay, back to you, please.

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Speaker 4: Please please please?

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Speaker 2: Can I please go on? Yes?

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Speaker 3: Please do.

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Speaker 1: So?

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Speaker 2: Asking permission for things? Oh yeah, this is a really

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Speaker 2: tricky one, especially in a big household.

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Speaker 4: There are lots of people.

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Speaker 2: Using the same things, and often we'll go into the

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Speaker 2: fridge to cook something for dinner and somebody's had a

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Speaker 2: snack on what was supposed to be tonight's dinner.

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Speaker 3: We have had so many eruptions in our family about people.

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Speaker 3: That was my chocolate, that was my yoga, that was

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Speaker 3: my ice cream, that was the kids buy their stuff,

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Speaker 3: they keep in the fridge and someone else takes it, so, oh.

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Speaker 4: Who wait, all the mashed potato from last night's dinner.

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Speaker 4: I was going to use that tonight.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Interrupting is another one that's on my list.

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Speaker 3: I know we've just jokingly talked about it, but we've

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Speaker 3: got to teach our kids not to interrupt. It's just

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Speaker 3: agonizing when they do that and saying excuse me, Well.

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Speaker 2: I've got a good one, yep, knocking before you enter

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Speaker 2: a room.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and this can be more and more important as.

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Speaker 3: The children get older or the later at night that

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Speaker 3: it is.

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Speaker 2: But yes, I think that that's a really important one.

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Speaker 2: And I think with that one in particular, it's very

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Speaker 2: easy for us as adults to just storm into our

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Speaker 2: children's rooms when we need them, yep, without actually being

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Speaker 2: respectful of their space as well. And so this is

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Speaker 2: a wonderful opportunity for us to actually model that behavior.

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Speaker 2: When we're going to go to their room with their doorshut,

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Speaker 2: we need to give them the respect and have.

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Speaker 4: A little knock.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, great one. What about reading over someone's shoulder?

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Speaker 4: Oh, I hate that Yep.

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Speaker 3: When I was younger, we went on a school excursion

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Speaker 3: to a place where there was going to be a

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Speaker 3: fairly wide array of people that we may not have

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Speaker 3: met or come across before in terms of ethnicity, race,

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Speaker 3: et cetera, et cetera. The teacher told us before we

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Speaker 3: got out of the bus, guys, you're going to see

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Speaker 3: people who are dressed in ways that you're not used

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Speaker 3: to seeing. You're going to see people who are not

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Speaker 3: representative of what you're used to seeing. It's really important

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Speaker 3: that you don't make comments about people's appearance, and teaching

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Speaker 3: children to do that even when they're with their friends.

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Speaker 3: You don't make comments about what people are wearing, how

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Speaker 3: their hair is, what their teeth look like, the size

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Speaker 3: of their bodies, the color of their skin. We want

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Speaker 3: to teach our children to have manners when it comes

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Speaker 3: to those kinds of things, anything else pop into your head.

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Speaker 2: You talking about that just reminded me of a story

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Speaker 2: when I was younger. I was doubling my little sister.

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Speaker 2: She was on the back of my bike. There was

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Speaker 2: a family of Africans walking down the road. Now, I

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Speaker 2: have never seen such a dark skin in my life,

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Speaker 2: and as we rode past them at full tilt, my

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Speaker 2: sister says.

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Speaker 4: Why are those people so black?

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Speaker 3: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I was so mortified, But she.

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Speaker 3: Was just little and she didn't know. But it just

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Speaker 3: highlights why it's important we have those conversations. Highlighting to

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Speaker 3: somebody that they are different only exacerbates the difference. It

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Speaker 3: makes them feel more uncomfortable. Really really important. And by

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Speaker 3: the way, your sister, your family is Polynesian, You come

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Speaker 3: from a your mum has a Polynesian background. So it's

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Speaker 3: not like your family has the fairest of fair, fair skin,

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Speaker 3: you being a remarkable exception. And so isn't it ironic that,

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Speaker 3: even coming from a family of slightly darker skinned people,

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Speaker 3: your sister still noticed and made that comment unintentionally being

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Speaker 3: little because she hadn't been taught. I reckon. There's a

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Speaker 3: couple of others as well, just really good manners, like

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Speaker 3: when you go through a door, open it, hold it

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Speaker 3: open for other people. I reckon kids could learn that

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Speaker 3: offer to help, especially when you're at someone else's house.

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Speaker 3: Cover your mouth when you cough or sneeze for good,

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Speaker 3: or don't talk while you're eating, please keep it in

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Speaker 3: your mouth.

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Speaker 2: Slurping out of a straw.

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Speaker 3: I don't have a problem with it.

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Speaker 2: Oh I can't handle it.

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Speaker 3: You're going to tell me I'm not a lot to

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Speaker 3: lick the ball when I finish my ice cream too,

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Speaker 3: aren't you? You're so unfair.

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Speaker 2: I think that we need to have a lesson and manners.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about how to teach them, because we

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Speaker 3: could go on with the list. I guess what this highlights, though,

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Speaker 3: is that all of these things every family is going

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Speaker 3: to see it differently. But all of these things are

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Speaker 3: the manners that we want our kids to internalize. We

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Speaker 3: want them to be respectful of others and to be

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Speaker 3: considerate of how other people want to function in the world,

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Speaker 3: so that they're not intruding on them. So how do

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Speaker 3: we teach these manners.

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Speaker 2: Well, first and foremost example, if we want our children

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Speaker 2: to be you know, expressions of gratitude, to respect individuals,

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Speaker 2: and you know, acknowledge that there are differences in the

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Speaker 2: world and that's okay, then it has to actually start here.

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Speaker 3: To keep their bodily functions to them. Sells at the

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Speaker 3: dinner table be an example, be an example. That's probably

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Speaker 3: the number one thing. In fact, if there's a take

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Speaker 3: home message, it's be an example of manners. If you

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Speaker 3: want the kids to have good manus, you've got to

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Speaker 3: have good manners. Don't interrupt if you don't want them

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Speaker 3: to interrupt, Speak softly if you want them to speak softly.

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Speaker 3: I've got another one. What about role plays and practicing

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Speaker 3: good manners, especially before you go somewhere.

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Speaker 2: I think it's a really important part of the process,

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Speaker 2: especially for our younger children. We need to set them

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Speaker 2: up for success and that they are going into new environments.

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Speaker 2: You know, like your teacher said, you're going to see

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Speaker 2: things that you haven't seen before. And it's okay, but

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Speaker 2: this is what we expect moving forward.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So we call that process induction, where we teach

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Speaker 3: people what to do before they have to do it,

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Speaker 3: so that when it's time to do it, they do it. Well,

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Speaker 3: we can do that with our children, so.

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Speaker 2: You know, this opportunity to perspective take with our children

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Speaker 2: as well. You know, we're going to Nannie's house this afternoon,

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Speaker 2: and Nannie's got a lot going on on her plate,

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Speaker 2: or she's providing dinner for us. It'd be great if

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Speaker 2: we could actually be helpful to her at the other end.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, and she's got no teeth. Don't say anything about it. Yes,

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Speaker 3: I know she's got stinky.

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Speaker 4: Breath, but she's got hairy chin.

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Speaker 3: But we're not going to say anything at all about that,

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Speaker 3: are we. That that's it and the last thing I

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Speaker 3: thought of, So hang on. We've got be an example,

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Speaker 3: we've got role play and practice, we've got induction actually

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Speaker 3: explicitly teach, we've got perspective taking. And the last thing

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Speaker 3: is develop scripts actually teach the kids what to say

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Speaker 3: teach them how to say thank you, I appreciate that,

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Speaker 3: or may I help or excuse me? And give them

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Speaker 3: the scripts, give them the words. They're only little, they

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Speaker 3: don't know what to say. That hopefully will help them

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Speaker 3: to learn the kinds of manners that we want them

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Speaker 3: to have, so that they can be considerate, respectful people

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Speaker 3: who put others at ease and make the world a

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Speaker 3: nicer place.

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Speaker 2: Well, thank you, doctor Coulson for our conversation today. It's

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Speaker 2: been a pleasure spending time with you.

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Speaker 3: A delight. Missus Coulson, thank you so much for contribute

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Speaker 3: so willingly and so helpfully to the conversation. Hey, we

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Speaker 3: really hope that you've enjoyed the discussion today about teaching

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Speaker 3: kids manners. We want to know what manners do you

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Speaker 3: wish you could teach your kids. Let us know. Podcasts

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Speaker 3: at Happy families dot com dot au or you can

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Speaker 3: find us on Facebook. Dr Justin Colson's Happy Families. The

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Speaker 3: Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin Ruhland from Bridge Media,

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Speaker 3: and we also appreciate the work of Craig Bruce, our

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Speaker 3: executive producer. I want to make your family happier. You

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Speaker 3: can get all the info you need about our Happy

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Speaker 3: Families memberships at happy families dot com dot au