1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:16,040 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. Good morning, and welcome to the 3 00:00:16,120 --> 00:00:19,080 Speaker 1: Daily OS. It's Wednesday, the nineteenth of March. I'm Billy, 4 00:00:19,400 --> 00:00:24,439 Speaker 1: I'm zara. Last week TDA exclusively reported that Coalition Senator 5 00:00:24,520 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 1: Matt Canavan is proposing a policy to offer couples a 6 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,320 Speaker 1: low interest loan of one hundred thousand dollars once they 7 00:00:31,400 --> 00:00:34,519 Speaker 1: have a child. Now, this loan would only apply to 8 00:00:34,600 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: families buying their first home, and it would be wiped 9 00:00:37,960 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: completely if they have three children. While Canavan has put 10 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,440 Speaker 1: forward the idea, the Coalition hasn't formally adopted this policy, 11 00:00:46,840 --> 00:00:51,400 Speaker 1: but it has kickstarted a fascinating conversation about Australia's declining 12 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:54,880 Speaker 1: birth rate. So today we are here to explain why 13 00:00:54,920 --> 00:00:57,840 Speaker 1: a declining birth rate is an issue, and we will 14 00:00:57,880 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: break down Canavan's idea to So. 15 00:01:03,720 --> 00:01:05,560 Speaker 2: All right, so Billy, there's a lot there. It's a 16 00:01:05,600 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 2: big idea and it certainly generated a lot of interest 17 00:01:08,560 --> 00:01:11,160 Speaker 2: among our audience. But I do just want to start 18 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:13,760 Speaker 2: with the person, I guess at the center of this story, 19 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:18,039 Speaker 2: Senator Matt Canavan. If listeners aren't familiar, what do we 20 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 2: need to know about him. 21 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:23,600 Speaker 1: So, Matt Canavan has been a Queensland Senator since twenty thirteen, 22 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: so he's from the state of Queensland, but he is 23 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,480 Speaker 1: a federal Senator in the Federal Parliament. Now in the Senate, 24 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 1: Canavan is part of the National Party, which is led 25 00:01:32,720 --> 00:01:36,600 Speaker 1: by David Little Proud and federally, the National Party has 26 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 1: a formal alliance with the Liberal Party which is led 27 00:01:40,120 --> 00:01:43,039 Speaker 1: by Peter Dunton, and they have this formal alliance to 28 00:01:43,240 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: form a government together if they win enough seats together 29 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,920 Speaker 1: at an election, and that is what we call the coalition. 30 00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,640 Speaker 1: So whenever we're referring to the coalition, we're referring to 31 00:01:52,680 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 1: the National Party and the Liberal Party. 32 00:01:54,800 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 2: Good Civics education, great civicxegutiy. One minute in, I've learned 33 00:01:58,080 --> 00:01:59,120 Speaker 2: everything I need to know. 34 00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:03,640 Speaker 1: In terms of where Canavan stands within the coalition. He 35 00:02:03,880 --> 00:02:07,600 Speaker 1: was a minister under Turnbull's government under Malcolm Turnbull when 36 00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:11,720 Speaker 1: he was Prime Minister. He was Resources Minister then. But 37 00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:15,079 Speaker 1: now as the Liberal Party is led by Peter Dudden, 38 00:02:15,240 --> 00:02:19,520 Speaker 1: Mat Canavan doesn't currently hold any shadow ministry position, so 39 00:02:19,560 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: that would probably suggest to us that if the coalition 40 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: does get into government, at the next election, which as 41 00:02:25,320 --> 00:02:27,960 Speaker 1: we've said many times, is due by the seventeenth of May. 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: If the Coalition does win, he probably won't be a 43 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:34,400 Speaker 1: minister again, just based on the fact that he's not 44 00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:38,240 Speaker 1: a shadow minister at the moment. Now. That could partly 45 00:02:38,240 --> 00:02:40,240 Speaker 1: have something to do with the fact that he often 46 00:02:40,320 --> 00:02:46,120 Speaker 1: speaks out against the coalition's official position on multiple policy areas. So, 47 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: for example, one area that he feels quite passionate about 48 00:02:49,760 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: is climate change. 49 00:02:50,760 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: Which is why it's so interesting that he was the 50 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:56,760 Speaker 2: Resources Minister under Mountain Turmpule, who is famously quite a 51 00:02:56,800 --> 00:02:59,440 Speaker 2: strong character when it comes to climate Matt Canavan sitting 52 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:01,880 Speaker 2: on the opper end of the spectrum, ye too, Termbull. 53 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, So, for example, he suggested that Australia should withdraw 54 00:03:05,280 --> 00:03:08,120 Speaker 1: from the Paris Agreement, which is not an official stance 55 00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:10,520 Speaker 1: of the Coalition or of the National Party or of 56 00:03:10,560 --> 00:03:14,160 Speaker 1: the Liberal Party. So he's kind of considered often like 57 00:03:14,320 --> 00:03:17,680 Speaker 1: a rogue backbencher. I feel like that's the term that 58 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:20,160 Speaker 1: is often used to describe him in the media, but 59 00:03:20,520 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: he does hold weight. He is a Queensland Senator. 60 00:03:24,440 --> 00:03:26,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, And just to give everyone a visual if you 61 00:03:26,320 --> 00:03:28,639 Speaker 2: still don't know who we're talking about. Anytime you turn 62 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:31,200 Speaker 2: on the news and there is a member of Parliament 63 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,640 Speaker 2: who has a TV on behind him with a message, 64 00:03:35,720 --> 00:03:38,720 Speaker 2: that's Mat Canavan. That has become his kind of signature 65 00:03:38,920 --> 00:03:42,160 Speaker 2: thing when it comes to media interviews. Okay, so, Billy, 66 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 2: let's turn out to this policy idea that mac Canavan 67 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: has put forward. I'm keen to understand the context in 68 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:53,840 Speaker 2: which his policy of trying to incentivize people to have children, 69 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 2: the context of where that policy really comes from. 70 00:03:57,040 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: Yeah. So Australia's birth rate has been falling for a 71 00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:02,600 Speaker 1: number of decades, and when I was looking into this 72 00:04:02,680 --> 00:04:06,000 Speaker 1: with tda's political journalist Harry Seculitch last week, I was 73 00:04:06,040 --> 00:04:09,240 Speaker 1: fascinated to learn just how much it has dropped. So 74 00:04:09,280 --> 00:04:11,520 Speaker 1: if we go back to the nineteen fifties, a long, 75 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:15,200 Speaker 1: long time ago, the birth rate was three point five 76 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:20,280 Speaker 1: babies per woman, So for every woman in Australia, on average, 77 00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:23,840 Speaker 1: she was producing three point five children. Now, in two 78 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: thousand and eight, the birth rate had dropped to two 79 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 1: point zero two, about two children per woman. In twenty 80 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,080 Speaker 1: twenty three, which is the most recent data we have, 81 00:04:34,640 --> 00:04:37,960 Speaker 1: it was down to one point five children per woman. 82 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:43,120 Speaker 1: So it's been dropping significantly for decades, and the fact 83 00:04:43,160 --> 00:04:45,720 Speaker 1: that the current birth rate is one point five children 84 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:49,840 Speaker 1: per woman means that we're not meeting the replacement rate, 85 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:53,040 Speaker 1: which would be two children. So if we just take 86 00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,960 Speaker 1: a very average family and say that's two parents, the 87 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: replacement rate would then be two children. But at moment 88 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 1: on average, we are not meeting that, and just purely 89 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:09,040 Speaker 1: in terms of economic forecasts, that is considered an issue. 90 00:05:09,440 --> 00:05:11,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I am keen to unpack this idea of it 91 00:05:11,440 --> 00:05:14,599 Speaker 2: being an issue because we know that there is so 92 00:05:14,960 --> 00:05:18,400 Speaker 2: much that goes into the decision of having children not 93 00:05:18,480 --> 00:05:22,840 Speaker 2: having children. Of course, then infertility is a conversation alongside 94 00:05:23,000 --> 00:05:28,000 Speaker 2: everything else. But you said, just on purely economic terms 95 00:05:28,120 --> 00:05:32,320 Speaker 2: that a falling birth rate has implications. What are those implications, like, 96 00:05:32,360 --> 00:05:34,560 Speaker 2: why is it such an issue for the economy. 97 00:05:34,760 --> 00:05:36,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, and again I want to really emphasize that we're 98 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,440 Speaker 1: just talking about economic pros and cons We're not talking about, 99 00:05:40,720 --> 00:05:43,880 Speaker 1: you know, why women are often having less children than 100 00:05:43,880 --> 00:05:46,440 Speaker 1: they were fifty years ago. So in terms of this 101 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,320 Speaker 1: declining birth rate and the reason why economically it is 102 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:52,560 Speaker 1: considered an issue, it's basically because it means that we 103 00:05:52,640 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: have an aging population at the same time as we 104 00:05:56,160 --> 00:06:00,320 Speaker 1: have a shrinking working population. So that puts lot of 105 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 1: economic pressure on governments because it means that we have 106 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,400 Speaker 1: less people being able to work and pay taxes, which 107 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:09,360 Speaker 1: is the main way that governments get money. And at 108 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:12,159 Speaker 1: the same time as that, we have more people requiring 109 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: assistance from the government when it comes to health services 110 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: and the pension, which obviously costs money. 111 00:06:18,960 --> 00:06:21,560 Speaker 2: And that's because, of course, people are now living longer 112 00:06:21,640 --> 00:06:24,280 Speaker 2: because we have medical interventions. There's so much that goes 113 00:06:24,320 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 2: into the fact that for a number of different things, 114 00:06:27,120 --> 00:06:29,840 Speaker 2: and of course it's great news for those we love, 115 00:06:30,120 --> 00:06:33,760 Speaker 2: but people are living longer and do require government services 116 00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 2: as an older. 117 00:06:34,320 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: Population exactly, and it means that there is now a 118 00:06:37,680 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 1: lot of pressure on younger generations to care for older 119 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 1: generations now. At the same time, I don't want to 120 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,320 Speaker 1: just keep having caveats, but I do also just want 121 00:06:48,360 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: to mention that at the same time that this conversation 122 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:55,200 Speaker 1: is happening, there's also a conversation about overpopulation and the 123 00:06:55,240 --> 00:06:58,760 Speaker 1: issues with that. But I think just for this podcast, 124 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 1: I don't want to get into the debate between those 125 00:07:01,240 --> 00:07:03,880 Speaker 1: two things, and I think we just stick to the 126 00:07:03,960 --> 00:07:06,520 Speaker 1: declining birth rate. But I do just want to mention 127 00:07:06,640 --> 00:07:10,320 Speaker 1: that there are all of these different conversations around this topic, 128 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,200 Speaker 1: that it's really dense and complex, but an important thing 129 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:14,800 Speaker 1: to talk about. 130 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:18,000 Speaker 2: Okay, So you've said the scene there we have an 131 00:07:18,000 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: aging population at the same time as fewer babies are 132 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 2: being born and therefore fewer people going on to help 133 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:29,320 Speaker 2: with that aging population. So that is the one economic 134 00:07:29,360 --> 00:07:31,720 Speaker 2: issue that we're focusing on today, and certainly the context 135 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:36,160 Speaker 2: in which Senator Matt Canavan has proposed this new idea. 136 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:41,119 Speaker 2: Canavan spoke directly to tda's journalist Harry. As you mentioned earlier, 137 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 2: I walked past him on the phone saying Hi, Matt, 138 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:44,720 Speaker 2: and I was wondering whether that was who he was 139 00:07:44,760 --> 00:07:48,280 Speaker 2: speaking to. It turns out was Harry is sick today. 140 00:07:48,440 --> 00:07:50,760 Speaker 2: So we've jumped on to explain the story. But really 141 00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:53,440 Speaker 2: he has done so much of the heavy lifting here. 142 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,560 Speaker 2: What did Matt Canavan tell Harry? 143 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,360 Speaker 1: Okay, So, in his chat with Harry, Canavan explained this 144 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 1: propose policy, or this big idea that he has, which 145 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 1: is to give first time parents a one hundred thousand 146 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:09,720 Speaker 1: dollar government loan, and this would only apply to families 147 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:12,240 Speaker 1: buying their first home. So it's kind of attempting to 148 00:08:12,280 --> 00:08:16,280 Speaker 1: solve two issues. One is the affordability of homes in 149 00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:19,480 Speaker 1: Australia and the second is the declining birth rate and 150 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 1: trying to incentivize families to have more children. Now, this 151 00:08:23,480 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: one hundred thousand dollar government loan, the idea that Matt 152 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 1: Canavan put forward is that the loan would decrease by 153 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,400 Speaker 1: thirty percent after a second child and then would be 154 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: wiped all together after a third child. So essentially what 155 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,760 Speaker 1: that means is that families would basically receive one hundred 156 00:08:40,760 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to spend on a home if you have 157 00:08:43,840 --> 00:08:45,960 Speaker 1: three kids, because you wouldn't need to pay back the 158 00:08:46,000 --> 00:08:47,800 Speaker 1: loan if you have three kids. 159 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 2: When we saw this come across our desks on a 160 00:08:50,840 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: Friday afternoon, it was certainly one of the more unique 161 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,880 Speaker 2: policy propositions that I've seen. But I do want to 162 00:08:57,960 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 2: just highlight again, as you say said at the top, 163 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:04,720 Speaker 2: that this isn't the coalition's formal policy position, is it No? 164 00:09:04,960 --> 00:09:07,920 Speaker 1: Okay, it's just an idea that is being put forward 165 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:11,800 Speaker 1: by Canavan. We do know that he has raised the 166 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,559 Speaker 1: policy in the National's party room and he told Harry 167 00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: that he does have the support of some MPs and senators. 168 00:09:19,520 --> 00:09:23,240 Speaker 1: Harry asked if he could know who those party members were, 169 00:09:23,320 --> 00:09:27,839 Speaker 1: and Matt Canavan said no. Canavan also did admit that 170 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:30,840 Speaker 1: the issue wouldn't be high on the agenda at the 171 00:09:30,880 --> 00:09:34,560 Speaker 1: upcoming federal election, so he's clearly saying this isn't a top, 172 00:09:34,640 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: top priority of the coalition. But he said that if 173 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:40,840 Speaker 1: the Coalition did win government, it would be an idea 174 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,000 Speaker 1: that he would advocate for. And he kept saying it. 175 00:09:44,200 --> 00:09:48,120 Speaker 1: He wasn't necessarily wedded to this exact policy, but what 176 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,240 Speaker 1: he feels really strongly about is that we should be 177 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,840 Speaker 1: having a bigger conversation about the declining birth rate in Australia. 178 00:09:56,120 --> 00:09:59,160 Speaker 1: And so he said, perhaps not this exact one, but 179 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,560 Speaker 1: we need to be having this conversation now. 180 00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 2: Yeah, Australia isn't unique in the situation that finds itself. Certainly. 181 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:10,040 Speaker 2: I know, I've read a lot about Japan's aging population, 182 00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:12,920 Speaker 2: for example. I was interested to know that there is 183 00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 2: actually a precedent for this policy elsewhere in the world. 184 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, So this whole policy proposal that Matt Canavan is 185 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:22,280 Speaker 1: putting forward, he said he was inspired by a similar 186 00:10:22,320 --> 00:10:25,280 Speaker 1: scheme that has happened in Hungary. Now when I learned 187 00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:28,439 Speaker 1: about this, it genuinely blew my mind. Let me take 188 00:10:28,480 --> 00:10:31,360 Speaker 1: you through the steps of it. So in twenty nineteen, 189 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,959 Speaker 1: the Hungarian government introduced a loan scheme to encourage more 190 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,559 Speaker 1: women to have children. So I'm going to go through 191 00:10:37,600 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 1: each of the phases of this loan scheme. So phase one, 192 00:10:40,840 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 1: if you are a woman who got married in Hungary 193 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 1: and twenty nineteen, you would receive the equivalent of about 194 00:10:47,080 --> 00:10:51,120 Speaker 1: forty three thousand Aussie dollars in a loan, and that 195 00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,080 Speaker 1: could be spent on anything. So this wasn't specifically two homes. 196 00:10:55,400 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: And again that's just if you get married. That's got 197 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,199 Speaker 1: nothing to do with children yet. But then phase two, 198 00:11:00,760 --> 00:11:03,560 Speaker 1: if you have a child, so your first child, you 199 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,720 Speaker 1: then didn't need to pay off the loan for three years. 200 00:11:07,440 --> 00:11:09,240 Speaker 1: The next step the next child. If you have a 201 00:11:09,280 --> 00:11:13,200 Speaker 1: second child, then one third of the loan would be white. 202 00:11:13,960 --> 00:11:16,920 Speaker 1: And then a third child would mean that the loan 203 00:11:17,160 --> 00:11:18,160 Speaker 1: was completely white. 204 00:11:18,880 --> 00:11:20,360 Speaker 2: But then there's more. 205 00:11:20,480 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: There's still more, Okay. The fourth one is the one 206 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:27,000 Speaker 1: that blew my mind. If you had four children in Hungry, 207 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: it would mean that you would pay no income tax 208 00:11:31,600 --> 00:11:32,679 Speaker 1: for the rest of your life. 209 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:38,240 Speaker 2: Well, my Hungarian mother with four children would be listening 210 00:11:38,280 --> 00:11:41,720 Speaker 2: to this with great interest. That's crazy, isn't that crazy? 211 00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: So if you think like of your income and how 212 00:11:44,240 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: it gets taxed every month or whenever your pay cycle 213 00:11:46,920 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: is in Hungry, if you had four children, that means 214 00:11:49,440 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 1: that you would never have to pay that income tax. 215 00:11:52,640 --> 00:11:55,640 Speaker 2: I'm so interested to know if it worked, Like, if 216 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:58,960 Speaker 2: the idea was to bring up the birthrate, did it work? 217 00:11:59,000 --> 00:11:59,560 Speaker 2: Did it do that? 218 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:02,199 Speaker 1: This is where it kind of gets murky, and Harry 219 00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:04,320 Speaker 1: and I were looking at this and trying to figure 220 00:12:04,320 --> 00:12:08,200 Speaker 1: out what the analysis says. Essentially, the birth rate in 221 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:11,080 Speaker 1: Hungary has been rising for over a decade. 222 00:12:10,760 --> 00:12:13,280 Speaker 2: So before this league came into effects. 223 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 1: Exactly, even before this policy came into effects, the birth 224 00:12:15,800 --> 00:12:19,520 Speaker 1: rate was rising, and since his policy came into effect, 225 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,960 Speaker 1: it has continued to rise, but not by a considerable amount. 226 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 1: There hasn't been this huge jump that you can look 227 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:30,959 Speaker 1: at twenty nineteen and say, at that moment there has 228 00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: been a drastic change in the birth rate, but it 229 00:12:34,840 --> 00:12:38,880 Speaker 1: has increased since twenty nineteen. So again, there hasn't been 230 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: a lot of analysis that we could find, but there 231 00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:42,800 Speaker 1: has been an increase. 232 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 2: Yeah, so interesting, and maybe you know, in the years 233 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:48,080 Speaker 2: to come, we'll be able to see a clearer picture 234 00:12:48,120 --> 00:12:50,559 Speaker 2: of what that looks like over there. I do want 235 00:12:50,600 --> 00:12:54,160 Speaker 2: to come back to Australia now because one of the 236 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:57,239 Speaker 2: things that I'm reminded of when we have this conversation 237 00:12:57,559 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 2: about Matt Canavan's policy is that this isn't new conversation. 238 00:13:01,240 --> 00:13:05,400 Speaker 2: Australia has been having this same conversation across the political 239 00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: aisle for decades. 240 00:13:07,200 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 1: Yeah. Do you remember that quote, one for mum, one 241 00:13:10,040 --> 00:13:12,040 Speaker 1: for dad, and one for the country. Yeah. 242 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:13,920 Speaker 2: I remember that quote because we made it our caption 243 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:17,120 Speaker 2: saying one for one for dad and one for Matt Canavan. 244 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 1: One of our best captions for all. That is a 245 00:13:19,640 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: famous quote though, One for mom, one for dad, and 246 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 1: one for the country. It was said in two thousand 247 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: and four by the former Liberal Treasurer of Peter Costello, 248 00:13:26,920 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 1: who at the time was trying to encourage families to 249 00:13:29,160 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: have more children, and he said that quote as he 250 00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:35,360 Speaker 1: was introducing a program to give parents three thousand dollars 251 00:13:35,480 --> 00:13:39,240 Speaker 1: for each new child born, the baby bonus, the baby bonus. 252 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:42,200 Speaker 1: So that was a massive conversation then, and clearly it 253 00:13:42,200 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 1: hasn't gone away in the twenty years since that was announced. 254 00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 1: The other big time, I mean recently. The other big 255 00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: time that this has come up is last year ahead 256 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:54,920 Speaker 1: of the budget, when Labor Treasurer Jim Chalmers told nine 257 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 1: newspapers that quote it would be better if birth rates 258 00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,439 Speaker 1: were higher. He did quite a lot of slack when 259 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: he said that you know a lot of people saying 260 00:14:03,160 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: that that comment ignores the reason why. I know, for 261 00:14:06,720 --> 00:14:08,200 Speaker 1: a lot of women it's not a choice to have 262 00:14:08,280 --> 00:14:10,880 Speaker 1: less babies, but for those families where they are choosing 263 00:14:10,920 --> 00:14:13,160 Speaker 1: to have less babies, it's because of the cost of 264 00:14:13,200 --> 00:14:16,520 Speaker 1: living crisis. He did say in that that there are 265 00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:19,440 Speaker 1: a whole range of reasons people's preferences are changing, and 266 00:14:19,480 --> 00:14:22,920 Speaker 1: he acknowledged that it is expensive to raise kids. But 267 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:25,720 Speaker 1: again that comment saying that it's an issue that there 268 00:14:25,760 --> 00:14:29,119 Speaker 1: is a declining birth rate did reignite that conversation. 269 00:14:29,840 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: I mean speaking of Jim Chalmers is the current treasurer. 270 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:35,960 Speaker 2: He's handing down the budget next week. Can we expect 271 00:14:36,240 --> 00:14:38,480 Speaker 2: anything from Labor on this. Have they responded to Matt 272 00:14:38,520 --> 00:14:39,880 Speaker 2: Canavan's proposal? 273 00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:44,800 Speaker 1: Great question. They haven't announced anything specifically about the declining 274 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:46,880 Speaker 1: birth rates. But I guess you would say everything that 275 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:49,920 Speaker 1: they've done in the childcare space is to make it 276 00:14:50,000 --> 00:14:53,760 Speaker 1: easier for families to have more children. So they haven't 277 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,160 Speaker 1: specifically said that this is attached to the declining birth rate, 278 00:14:57,400 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 1: but they've definitely announced policies to make it it easier 279 00:15:00,960 --> 00:15:04,960 Speaker 1: for families. Now, Harry did speak to Labour's Minister for Women, 280 00:15:05,200 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 1: Katie Gallaher, about Matt Canavan's specific policy proposal, and she 281 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:14,160 Speaker 1: told TDA I'm not entirely surprised that Canavan is linking 282 00:15:14,200 --> 00:15:18,120 Speaker 1: financial incentives to a woman's reproduction of children, and she 283 00:15:18,200 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: said the key to reversing declining birth rates is to 284 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:24,520 Speaker 1: support people and their choices. And she said, this is 285 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:27,480 Speaker 1: a specific quote. I don't think imposing these kinds of 286 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: nineteen fifties views about the role of women and their 287 00:15:30,640 --> 00:15:34,320 Speaker 1: reproductive capacity is the right way to go. So she's 288 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: saying she's not in favor of this policy at all. 289 00:15:37,760 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, So certainly no strong science there from the government 290 00:15:40,160 --> 00:15:42,840 Speaker 2: that they would ever support anything like that. We did 291 00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:45,160 Speaker 2: also ask our audience on Instagram what they thought about 292 00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 2: the proposal. Sixty six percent of respondents rejected the ideas 293 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:52,120 Speaker 2: so that they wouldn't support something like that, the rest 294 00:15:52,240 --> 00:15:55,720 Speaker 2: obviously confirming that they would so by no means an 295 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: overwhelming rejection. And we had all sorts of responses coming 296 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,520 Speaker 2: in as to why people either or reject the idea, 297 00:16:01,600 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: but certainly one that got the conversation started. 298 00:16:04,240 --> 00:16:06,760 Speaker 1: I would always say, that's a pretty good reception to 299 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,280 Speaker 1: a policy. You've got one in three people saying that 300 00:16:09,640 --> 00:16:12,560 Speaker 1: they would feel encouraged to have more children if this 301 00:16:12,640 --> 00:16:15,880 Speaker 1: policy came into effect. Yeah, that's pretty high. One in three. 302 00:16:16,080 --> 00:16:18,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, and especially given that our audience is young and 303 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:21,240 Speaker 2: likely the target of that policy. 304 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's all I got for you. That's our exclusive, 305 00:16:24,040 --> 00:16:27,480 Speaker 1: a TDA exclusive, Go Harry. We're so sorry that he's 306 00:16:27,520 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: sick today and wasn't here to explain it himself, but 307 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: it's just been the most fascinating chat in the TDA office. 308 00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,360 Speaker 1: It generated such an interesting conversation with the audience as well, 309 00:16:37,880 --> 00:16:41,800 Speaker 1: and we will keep those exclusives coming. Thank you so much, Zara, 310 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:44,960 Speaker 1: thanks for listening to me yap, and thank you Old 311 00:16:45,160 --> 00:16:47,920 Speaker 1: also listening to me Yap. We'll be back again this 312 00:16:48,040 --> 00:16:51,560 Speaker 1: afternoon with your evening headlines. But until then, have a 313 00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,520 Speaker 1: great day. 314 00:16:56,360 --> 00:16:58,640 Speaker 3: My name is Lily Madden and I'm a proud Aarunda 315 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 3: bunge lung Kalkutin from Gadigol Country. The Daily oz acknowledges 316 00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 3: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the 317 00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,760 Speaker 3: Gadigol people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torrestrate 318 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 3: island and nations. We pay our respects to the first 319 00:17:12,720 --> 00:17:15,240 Speaker 3: peoples of these countries, both past and present.