1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the Daily This is 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: the DAILI OS. 3 00:00:05,120 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 2: Oh, now it makes sense. 4 00:00:14,680 --> 00:00:17,479 Speaker 1: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Monday, 5 00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: the sixteenth of February. I'm Zara Seidler. 6 00:00:19,960 --> 00:00:21,000 Speaker 2: And I'm Sam Kelowski. 7 00:00:21,360 --> 00:00:25,040 Speaker 1: Today we are diving into allegations that some athletes at 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:28,680 Speaker 1: the twenty twenty six Winter Olympics could be using penis 9 00:00:28,760 --> 00:00:32,760 Speaker 1: enlarging injections to gain a competitive advantage in ski jumping. 10 00:00:33,120 --> 00:00:35,120 Speaker 3: I know that that sentence sounds. 11 00:00:34,880 --> 00:00:38,199 Speaker 1: Absolutely ridiculous, Sam, but stay with me because this is 12 00:00:38,240 --> 00:00:41,440 Speaker 1: a real story that the Anti Doping Agency has said 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: it will investigate further. The claims are that athletes might 14 00:00:44,479 --> 00:00:48,080 Speaker 1: be manipulating their body measurements to access biggest suits, giving 15 00:00:48,120 --> 00:00:50,040 Speaker 1: them an advantage in competition. 16 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,400 Speaker 2: Zara, this is a wild topic. 17 00:00:56,680 --> 00:01:00,040 Speaker 3: I just can't believe those sentences left my mouth on my. 18 00:01:00,400 --> 00:01:02,400 Speaker 2: I mean, the challenge is always to come up with 19 00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,800 Speaker 2: new angles so that people getting into their cars or 20 00:01:04,800 --> 00:01:10,000 Speaker 2: getting onto the bus this morning invigorated to listen to TDA. 21 00:01:10,160 --> 00:01:12,960 Speaker 2: So let's talk about penis enlargements at the Winter Olympics. 22 00:01:13,640 --> 00:01:15,520 Speaker 3: Before you get in why we started the company, I. 23 00:01:15,480 --> 00:01:19,000 Speaker 2: Actually totally this is the pinnacle. So you know, we joke, 24 00:01:19,080 --> 00:01:21,600 Speaker 2: but there is a real story here, and there is 25 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:25,720 Speaker 2: a very interesting doping angle to all of this. Before 26 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 2: we get into the allegations and why it is made 27 00:01:28,959 --> 00:01:31,920 Speaker 2: such a stir in the world of professional sport, can 28 00:01:31,959 --> 00:01:35,440 Speaker 2: you explain first how ski jumping works as an event 29 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 2: and why suit size is so important here? 30 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 1: Okay, so I'll take your first question first about ski jumping, 31 00:01:42,880 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: because I feel like it's one of those things that 32 00:01:45,200 --> 00:01:47,240 Speaker 1: we see a lot. I don't know the name for. 33 00:01:47,720 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: So in ski jumping, athletes ski down a curved ramp 34 00:01:51,440 --> 00:01:55,000 Speaker 1: and launch themselves into the air. They are judged on 35 00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:58,040 Speaker 1: how far they jump and their style while doing it. 36 00:01:58,360 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: I've got to say, it's kind of a want to 37 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:03,440 Speaker 1: describe with words. So if you just pause this podcast now, 38 00:02:03,760 --> 00:02:07,160 Speaker 1: go search ski jumping on Google images, you will have 39 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:08,839 Speaker 1: a very good idea of what we're talking about. 40 00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,960 Speaker 2: They're like flying through the air arms at the sides. 41 00:02:13,880 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: It's quite graceful. I think it's quite a graceful jump. 42 00:02:16,400 --> 00:02:18,640 Speaker 2: They're flying as fast as they can trying to stick 43 00:02:18,639 --> 00:02:19,160 Speaker 2: the landing. 44 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,239 Speaker 1: I'm just going to quickly mention though, that my favorite 45 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,440 Speaker 1: tweets throughout this entire Winter Olympics has been how did 46 00:02:24,440 --> 00:02:27,440 Speaker 1: these people figure out they were good at these specific sports? Like, 47 00:02:27,520 --> 00:02:28,840 Speaker 1: how did you figure out you were good at this? 48 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:32,160 Speaker 1: Just like trilling yourself off things and realize that you're 49 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:33,080 Speaker 1: very talented at it. 50 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:35,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I should try it sometimes you should. 51 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,079 Speaker 1: But it was the finals last night yesterday, and that's 52 00:02:39,080 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: why we're talking about it because it's back in the news. 53 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:42,760 Speaker 3: We had all eyes on it. 54 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:44,640 Speaker 1: If you were watching the Winter Olympics, you would have 55 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: seen what it is we are trying to describe. And 56 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:49,400 Speaker 1: it turns out that the ski suits that you would 57 00:02:49,400 --> 00:02:53,400 Speaker 1: have seen them wearing are really heavily regulated because of 58 00:02:53,440 --> 00:02:56,880 Speaker 1: how much they impact performance. This reminds me a lot 59 00:02:56,919 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: of the Michael Phelps what are those things called the 60 00:03:00,320 --> 00:03:03,160 Speaker 1: swimming suit suits? Yeah, that how much you know, piece 61 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:06,440 Speaker 1: of apparel can impact you. This is one of those cases. Okay, 62 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:10,000 Speaker 1: So there are really strict rules around the fit, fabric 63 00:03:10,160 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: and even where the zipper can go in these suits. 64 00:03:12,960 --> 00:03:16,200 Speaker 1: Suits must conform to the body, with some small exceptions 65 00:03:16,240 --> 00:03:19,639 Speaker 1: for extra fabric. Now, for men, there's an allowance of 66 00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,720 Speaker 1: an additional three centimeters of material in the crutch area 67 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:27,480 Speaker 1: and before athletes compete they undergo a three D body 68 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:30,840 Speaker 1: measurement scan in their underwear, which is then compared to 69 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:33,200 Speaker 1: the suit to make sure everything's compliant. 70 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,600 Speaker 2: And so why is it that having a bigger suit 71 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 2: impacts performance? 72 00:03:39,240 --> 00:03:41,600 Speaker 1: Well, it turns out that the bigger the suit, the 73 00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:46,000 Speaker 1: more surface area, which creates more lift and more drag. Essentially, 74 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:49,960 Speaker 1: you can fling yourself further, right with a bigger suit, 75 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:53,680 Speaker 1: kind of like parachuting, right right, Okay, So the International 76 00:03:53,680 --> 00:03:58,600 Speaker 1: Ski and Snowboard Federation's men's race director that's mouthful, says 77 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 1: that if your suit has a five percent bigger surface area, 78 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,800 Speaker 1: you fly further. And so there was a study published 79 00:04:05,840 --> 00:04:08,960 Speaker 1: earlier this year in the academic journal Frontiers that looked 80 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:12,800 Speaker 1: into this, and it showed that drag increased by around 81 00:04:12,840 --> 00:04:16,600 Speaker 1: four percent and lift by five percent for every two 82 00:04:16,680 --> 00:04:19,920 Speaker 1: centimeters increase in what they call tolerance, which is how 83 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:23,479 Speaker 1: much a garment differs from its pattern. Suit with an 84 00:04:23,520 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: extra three centimeters of fabric could see an athlete traveling 85 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:30,440 Speaker 1: about five point eight meters further. And in a sport 86 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:34,920 Speaker 1: where fractions of a meter matter quite significantly, that's pretty huge. 87 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,400 Speaker 2: I mean, one way to think about it, that's been 88 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:41,240 Speaker 2: helpful for me is think about somebody who does the 89 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:43,840 Speaker 2: kind of free diving world and they've got a suit 90 00:04:43,920 --> 00:04:46,080 Speaker 2: that is massive and you can kind of see it 91 00:04:46,120 --> 00:04:49,560 Speaker 2: almost parachuting and ballooning, and they go through the air 92 00:04:49,640 --> 00:04:53,080 Speaker 2: quite gracefully. It's kind of heading in that direction. And 93 00:04:53,880 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 2: the manufacture and design of ski jump suits is taken 94 00:04:58,120 --> 00:04:59,599 Speaker 2: really seriously, right, Yeah, I. 95 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,479 Speaker 1: Mean for that very reason that it can influence so 96 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:06,320 Speaker 1: many different factors. At the twenty twenty two Winter Olympics, 97 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 1: five female ski jumpers were disqualified for having non compliance suits. 98 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:14,600 Speaker 1: Then last year, three Norwegian ski jumping team officials were 99 00:05:14,600 --> 00:05:18,120 Speaker 1: banned for eighteen months for manipulating their athletes suits ahead 100 00:05:18,120 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 1: of an event. What they had done was sewn in 101 00:05:20,480 --> 00:05:25,760 Speaker 1: an extra stiffer thread and that had impacted the performance. 102 00:05:26,240 --> 00:05:29,599 Speaker 1: And you know, that was one example of consequences for 103 00:05:30,000 --> 00:05:32,200 Speaker 1: altering or playing with this suit. 104 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,599 Speaker 2: I want to get into not necessarily suits altering, but 105 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 2: altering of something else. Let's go quickly to an ad break, Czarah. 106 00:05:42,880 --> 00:05:45,040 Speaker 2: We've talked about the kind of laid the land here 107 00:05:45,080 --> 00:05:47,440 Speaker 2: in the ways in which athletes have historically tried to 108 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,360 Speaker 2: gain an unfair advantage in this particular ski jump event, 109 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,040 Speaker 2: that brings us to these new allegations. What are athletes 110 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: accused of doing? In twenty twenty. 111 00:05:55,720 --> 00:06:00,960 Speaker 1: Six, so German newspaper Build was the to report this, 112 00:06:01,120 --> 00:06:04,559 Speaker 1: but in February the paper reported that athletes were using 113 00:06:04,760 --> 00:06:10,119 Speaker 1: hyaluronic acid injections to enlarge their penises before the three Sorry, 114 00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:12,520 Speaker 1: I don't know why I'm laughing, Just an obscene sentence 115 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:15,279 Speaker 1: to be saying out loud before the three D body scan. 116 00:06:15,920 --> 00:06:18,000 Speaker 1: The theory, of course, based on what we were talking 117 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: about before, is that if their measurement is bigger during 118 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: the scan, they'll be allowed more room between their crotch 119 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,680 Speaker 1: and ski suit when it comes time to compete, and 120 00:06:25,720 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: as we ran through, that could help them at the 121 00:06:28,279 --> 00:06:28,760 Speaker 1: end of the day. 122 00:06:28,920 --> 00:06:32,360 Speaker 2: So it sounds like the scrutiny that they've placed on 123 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 2: the suits themselves had gotten to such a stage where 124 00:06:35,760 --> 00:06:37,680 Speaker 2: they had to look at different ways to get an 125 00:06:37,760 --> 00:06:43,719 Speaker 2: unfair advantage. You mentioned something called hydrolokaluronic acid. Is that 126 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,320 Speaker 2: something that is actually used medically. 127 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,360 Speaker 1: Apparently so, so for any skincare girls out there, you 128 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,680 Speaker 1: would be well familiar with hyaluronic acid. A lot of 129 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:54,920 Speaker 1: us use it as a serum on our face. It's 130 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 1: meant to lock in moisture. But medically, injections of hyaluronic 131 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,359 Speaker 1: acid are commonly used to treat joint pain in areas 132 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:07,440 Speaker 1: like the knee, especially for things like osteoarthritis, And so 133 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:10,800 Speaker 1: there is a medical usage for this which I didn't 134 00:07:10,800 --> 00:07:13,600 Speaker 1: know before I started looking into this story. And if 135 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:17,160 Speaker 1: we go into the specific use in this case, a 136 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: twenty twenty two study with a small group of participants 137 00:07:20,240 --> 00:07:24,600 Speaker 1: found that injections of the substance actually increased penis length. 138 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: So doctor Aaron Stains, who performed these injections to Australian clinics, 139 00:07:29,640 --> 00:07:33,120 Speaker 1: said size gains are proportional to the extent of treatment. 140 00:07:33,400 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: The more extensive the treatment, the more size is gained. 141 00:07:37,120 --> 00:07:41,119 Speaker 2: Okay, so this is a real medical procedure. What is WATER? 142 00:07:41,320 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 2: So the World Antidoping Authority, what are they saying about it? 143 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:44,840 Speaker 3: Well? 144 00:07:44,880 --> 00:07:47,920 Speaker 1: At a press conference last week, The Guardian reported that 145 00:07:47,960 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: Water's president said that he promised to look into it. 146 00:07:52,560 --> 00:07:55,040 Speaker 1: Water had said that it was not aware of the details, 147 00:07:55,080 --> 00:07:57,400 Speaker 1: but if anything was to come to the surface, that 148 00:07:57,440 --> 00:08:01,160 Speaker 1: they would look at anything if it actually was doping related. 149 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 1: Right added that their committee would look into whether this 150 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,040 Speaker 1: would fall into the category of doping in interesting eils because 151 00:08:07,040 --> 00:08:10,160 Speaker 1: it's not like a clean cut example of, for example, 152 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 1: taking steroids or something like that. There is a bit 153 00:08:13,640 --> 00:08:15,920 Speaker 1: more nuance to this topic, and I guess that's why 154 00:08:15,960 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 1: we've chosen to talk about it today, even though this 155 00:08:18,160 --> 00:08:20,360 Speaker 1: has been the weirdest record we've ever done, SAM. 156 00:08:20,480 --> 00:08:24,040 Speaker 2: It is a very interesting gray area because I guess 157 00:08:24,120 --> 00:08:28,240 Speaker 2: you could say that the injections themselves aren't performance enhancing 158 00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,440 Speaker 2: drugs in the tribaluronic acid. Yeah, so they're being used 159 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,480 Speaker 2: to manipulate equipment that is then issued with its own 160 00:08:34,920 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 2: totally legitimate kind of specifications and allowances. 161 00:08:39,000 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I can't really compare it to anything other than 162 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:46,520 Speaker 1: those swimming costumes. But again, that wasn't body manipulation, it 163 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:48,760 Speaker 1: was the material on that suit. 164 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,559 Speaker 2: I don't know. Well, it's a really interesting one. We're 165 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:54,800 Speaker 2: going to have to wait and see what what it's 166 00:08:55,040 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: almost livetime investigation finds out whether there's any new rules 167 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 2: that come out of this. And it has though put 168 00:09:02,440 --> 00:09:05,000 Speaker 2: a spotlight I think also in the context of the 169 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:09,720 Speaker 2: enhanced Games and a more kind of open discussion of 170 00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: the ways in which athletes are trying to get those 171 00:09:12,120 --> 00:09:15,280 Speaker 2: one centimeter advantages or in this case, up to five 172 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:21,520 Speaker 2: boys six meters the jump not the artillery, but it 173 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:24,040 Speaker 2: definitely has put a spotlight on just how fast some 174 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:27,960 Speaker 2: athletes would go to gain a competitive advantage. 175 00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,360 Speaker 1: Everyone, thank you so much for joining us with this 176 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:31,839 Speaker 1: episode of The Daily os. 177 00:09:31,960 --> 00:09:34,080 Speaker 3: If you learned something, I know, I did, share it 178 00:09:34,120 --> 00:09:34,680 Speaker 3: with a friend. 179 00:09:34,960 --> 00:09:37,360 Speaker 2: It's this kind of coverage that makes our sports coverage 180 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,840 Speaker 2: a bit unique. 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