1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,360 Speaker 1: Already, and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,640 --> 00:00:17,160 Speaker 2: Good morning, and welcome to the Daily OS. It is Thursday, 4 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,280 Speaker 2: the seventeenth of July. I'm Sam Kazlowski. 5 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:20,400 Speaker 1: I'm Lucy Tarsel. 6 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 2: Senior members of the Trump administration, including President Donald Trump himself, 7 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 2: facing growing criticism from their own supporters after the Justice 8 00:00:29,840 --> 00:00:34,360 Speaker 2: Department concluded that no document exists that lists every associate 9 00:00:34,479 --> 00:00:38,000 Speaker 2: or client of convicted pedophile Jeffrey Epstein and that the 10 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:42,239 Speaker 2: disgraced financier died by suicide in jail. The members of 11 00:00:42,240 --> 00:00:47,559 Speaker 2: Trump's party don't believe Attorney General Pam Bondi's findings. Instead, 12 00:00:47,640 --> 00:00:50,879 Speaker 2: they're calling on Trump to fulfill his campaign promise of 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:55,360 Speaker 2: releasing as much information as possible about Epstein's alleged high 14 00:00:55,400 --> 00:00:59,120 Speaker 2: profile clients. It's a story that has stretched over a decade, 15 00:00:59,240 --> 00:01:02,240 Speaker 2: and today we're going to break down what happened this week, 16 00:01:02,560 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 2: why it's causing such a stir within Trump's own party, 17 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: and what this means for his administration going forward. Before 18 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:11,240 Speaker 2: we get into all of that, here's a quick word 19 00:01:11,280 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 2: from our sponsor. 20 00:01:17,319 --> 00:01:20,640 Speaker 1: Sam, Before we get into the political fallout that you've outlined, 21 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:23,040 Speaker 1: let's start with the basics. If you've come in fresh 22 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,560 Speaker 1: to this story, who was Jeffrey Epstein and why are 23 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:28,679 Speaker 1: people so interested in documents about him? 24 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is a banker we're talking about. Jeffrey 25 00:01:31,880 --> 00:01:34,440 Speaker 2: Epstein was a banker who was arrested in twenty nineteen 26 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:39,360 Speaker 2: on federal sex trafficking charges. His former girlfriend, Gallaine Maxwell, 27 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 2: was charged with helping him abuse teenage girls over a 28 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 2: number of years. Now. Epstein was found dead in his 29 00:01:45,880 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 2: cell at a federal jail in New York City about 30 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: a month after he was arrested, and he was waiting 31 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:56,080 Speaker 2: sentencing for further sex crimes, and investigators concluded he died 32 00:01:56,120 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 2: by suicide. Now, Maxwell, the former partner, was later convicted 33 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:03,160 Speaker 2: that trial and sentence herself to twenty years in prison. 34 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:05,200 Speaker 1: So those are the two people at the center of 35 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,920 Speaker 1: this story. Obviously both of them had been convicted of 36 00:02:08,919 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: a crime at one point or another. But there's a 37 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 1: lot of other people associated with this story. Big famous 38 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,279 Speaker 1: names we've not been convicted of anything, but are attached 39 00:02:17,480 --> 00:02:18,560 Speaker 1: to this story. Right. 40 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:22,280 Speaker 2: It's a fascinating convergence of some of the biggest names 41 00:02:22,320 --> 00:02:25,080 Speaker 2: in the world, not just Hollywood. A list celebrities, but 42 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:29,519 Speaker 2: members of the royal family from different countries, presidents, billionaires 43 00:02:29,520 --> 00:02:32,360 Speaker 2: from all over the world, really people of power and 44 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:37,360 Speaker 2: of particular interest to observers is which of those people 45 00:02:37,520 --> 00:02:41,920 Speaker 2: joined Epstein at his infamous private island where many incidents 46 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 2: of sexual exploitation are proven to have taken place. And 47 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 2: in that is you know flight files from his private 48 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:53,720 Speaker 2: jet of who was accompanying him personally, It was dinner reservations, 49 00:02:53,760 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 2: it was vps to parties, and all of that makes 50 00:02:56,560 --> 00:02:59,399 Speaker 2: up what is referred to as the Epstein files. And 51 00:03:00,200 --> 00:03:04,080 Speaker 2: the theory is that within these files could be links 52 00:03:04,240 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 2: to some of the world's most prominent and powerful people 53 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,440 Speaker 2: who could then have some serious questions to answer for. 54 00:03:10,919 --> 00:03:13,960 Speaker 1: So when you say theory, who's theorizing. 55 00:03:13,639 --> 00:03:16,919 Speaker 2: This, Well, it's kind of evolved into what can only 56 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,400 Speaker 2: be described really as a conspiracy theory, and it is 57 00:03:20,560 --> 00:03:23,520 Speaker 2: mostly popular on the far right. And the theory here 58 00:03:23,680 --> 00:03:27,239 Speaker 2: is that Epstein was actually killed in prison as part 59 00:03:27,280 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 2: of a cover up, and they also believe in this 60 00:03:29,919 --> 00:03:32,720 Speaker 2: notion of the deep state, and that the deep state 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:37,440 Speaker 2: is guarding information about Epstein's rich and powerful friends, who 62 00:03:37,480 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 2: they say could also be implicated on sex trafficking charges. 63 00:03:41,280 --> 00:03:43,840 Speaker 1: What do they say this the deep state is? Is 64 00:03:43,840 --> 00:03:44,800 Speaker 1: it like the deep web? 65 00:03:45,160 --> 00:03:48,680 Speaker 2: Kind of? It's basically a level of power and a 66 00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:51,720 Speaker 2: level a group of people running the world and running 67 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 2: America which we as common citizens don't know about. Yeah, 68 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:58,840 Speaker 2: And it's probably one of the most well known and 69 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,520 Speaker 2: long standing conspiracy theories associated with the MAGA movement Make 70 00:04:02,600 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 2: America Great Again. And essentially Donald Trump positioned himself, especially 71 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:09,400 Speaker 2: in the lead up to his first term in office, 72 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:13,520 Speaker 2: as the person to deliver the reckoning and to rid 73 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,239 Speaker 2: America of this deep state, to expose those who abuse power, 74 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,360 Speaker 2: particularly in the democratic side of politics. 75 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,360 Speaker 1: Is that like the drain the swamp stuff. 76 00:04:22,440 --> 00:04:26,160 Speaker 2: Exactly, it's drained the swamp stuff, and it's particularly targeted 77 00:04:26,279 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 2: at say Bill and Hillary Clinton. There's been lots of 78 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,200 Speaker 2: implications that they were friends of Jeffrey Epstein, for example, 79 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,919 Speaker 2: And so there was this sense of Donald Trump basically 80 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,920 Speaker 2: saying to his supporter base, there's a really bad group 81 00:04:40,920 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 2: of people you don't know about, and they're all tied 82 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:45,600 Speaker 2: together essentially through this one person. 83 00:04:46,080 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: So Bill Clinton, former US President, his wife Hillary, who 84 00:04:49,680 --> 00:04:54,280 Speaker 1: was Trump's rival in the twenty sixteen presidential election, and 85 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:56,400 Speaker 1: then Trump is kind of feeding this idea to his 86 00:04:57,040 --> 00:05:00,520 Speaker 1: supporters that those people are somehow involved in a major 87 00:05:00,680 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 1: conspiracy that's also linked to this convicted sex offender. 88 00:05:05,440 --> 00:05:07,640 Speaker 2: And that you know, Jeffrey Epstein may have had evidence 89 00:05:07,680 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: he was going to deliver to incriminate the Clintons, for example, 90 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 2: was then not able to do so because he was 91 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:15,279 Speaker 2: dead killed in prison. 92 00:05:15,440 --> 00:05:18,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, but based on what we've been led to 93 00:05:18,240 --> 00:05:20,840 Speaker 1: understand by authorities, he died by suicide in prison. 94 00:05:21,040 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 2: Yes. So there's been a number of reports that have 95 00:05:22,839 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 2: been released by the FBI and the Department of Justice 96 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,919 Speaker 2: that have led to that conclusion. The gray area is 97 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,039 Speaker 2: around whether there are still documents that are yet to 98 00:05:32,040 --> 00:05:34,880 Speaker 2: be declassified and that we as the publicer, yet to 99 00:05:35,040 --> 00:05:38,080 Speaker 2: actually get our hands on. And that really brings us 100 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:39,040 Speaker 2: to this week. 101 00:05:39,360 --> 00:05:42,120 Speaker 1: So there's a lot of conversation around declassifying documents. Is 102 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,520 Speaker 1: that a specific promise that Trump has made. 103 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, it was really a core part of what he's 104 00:05:47,320 --> 00:05:50,600 Speaker 2: promised his supporters in the last two elections, that he 105 00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:53,000 Speaker 2: would drain the swamp, as you said, and uncover a 106 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 2: lot of this story that would keep people accountable who 107 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,880 Speaker 2: are in power. And Lucy The really interesting turn that 108 00:05:59,880 --> 00:06:02,800 Speaker 2: you need to know about to get to what we're discussing. 109 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:05,680 Speaker 2: Happened in the last couple of weeks. Is late last year. 110 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:09,240 Speaker 2: Trump was asked on Fox News whether he would declassify 111 00:06:09,360 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 2: documents about Epstein, presuming there are declassified documents, and he said, yeah, yeah, 112 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,680 Speaker 2: I would, But then he added, I think that less 113 00:06:16,720 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 2: so now because you don't want to affect people's lives 114 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:21,919 Speaker 2: if it's phony stuff in there. And that was the 115 00:06:21,920 --> 00:06:25,240 Speaker 2: first sense of us getting an idea that perhaps his 116 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,719 Speaker 2: view on the release of documents is changing. 117 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:31,359 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean there is a reason why organizations like 118 00:06:31,400 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: the FBI and the CIA won't release certain documents until 119 00:06:34,880 --> 00:06:38,000 Speaker 1: after everyone who was involved is dead, and even then 120 00:06:38,040 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 1: they might be redacted like the JFK files, which I 121 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 1: know was another thing that Trump was kind of trying 122 00:06:43,000 --> 00:06:44,960 Speaker 1: to push up Hill to say, like, we should release 123 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:48,240 Speaker 1: all these documents. So then we also know that there's 124 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:50,880 Speaker 1: a difference between what is promised in a campaign and 125 00:06:50,920 --> 00:06:54,280 Speaker 1: what actually happens in government. What did the Trump administration 126 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 1: do once he actually returned to office in January this year. 127 00:06:57,880 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: So in February, so only a couple of weeks after 128 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 2: he got resettled back in the Oval Office. A group 129 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: of far right influences were invited to the White House 130 00:07:06,680 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 2: and they were given these binders marked the Epstein Files 131 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 2: Phase one and declassified, and the binders contained documents that 132 00:07:14,480 --> 00:07:18,600 Speaker 2: had largely already been made available to the public online. 133 00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 2: And the idea was essentially to fulfill that campaign promise 134 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,800 Speaker 2: and to ensure that he was delivering on his word. 135 00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,840 Speaker 2: But then in May there was a key moment that 136 00:07:27,840 --> 00:07:32,080 Speaker 2: grabbed people's attention and Attorney General Pam Bondi, so the 137 00:07:32,120 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 2: Attorney General, the key lawmaker in Trump's administration. She said 138 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: there were quote tens of thousands of videos of Epstein 139 00:07:39,960 --> 00:07:41,680 Speaker 2: with children or child porn. 140 00:07:41,840 --> 00:07:42,360 Speaker 1: Whoa. 141 00:07:42,440 --> 00:07:45,400 Speaker 2: She even claims that the Epstein client list was quote 142 00:07:45,440 --> 00:07:49,040 Speaker 2: sitting on her desk. The White House then quickly denied 143 00:07:49,080 --> 00:07:52,640 Speaker 2: this and said everything that they had on Epstein had 144 00:07:52,680 --> 00:07:56,000 Speaker 2: already been released to the public and there was nothing more. 145 00:07:55,760 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: To be revealed. Okay, wow, that's a pretty big admission. 146 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,560 Speaker 1: The Attorney General, who's the top legal official in the US, 147 00:08:04,080 --> 00:08:08,320 Speaker 1: says I have this stuff, and then her boss effectively says, no, 148 00:08:08,560 --> 00:08:09,880 Speaker 1: you don't have anything. 149 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,559 Speaker 2: Exactly, and then her boss's ex best friend Elon Musk 150 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 2: after they go through a bit of a bromance breakup. Yes, 151 00:08:16,960 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 2: he takes to X formerly Twitter his app, and Musk tweeted, 152 00:08:21,320 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 2: time to drop the really big bomb. Donald Trump is 153 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:26,560 Speaker 2: in the Epstein files. That is the real reason they 154 00:08:26,600 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 2: have not been made public. Have a nice day, DJT. 155 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:31,680 Speaker 2: So there was really starting to be more of a 156 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:34,640 Speaker 2: sense of more to this story than initially thought. And 157 00:08:34,679 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 2: then last week the Justice Department stated that Epstein did 158 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 2: not have a list of clients and said no more 159 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 2: files related to Epstein's case would be made public. There 160 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 2: was this memo that was released by the FBI and 161 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: the Justice Department together and it made clear that no 162 00:08:49,559 --> 00:08:52,320 Speaker 2: further disclosure would be appropriate or warranted. 163 00:08:52,559 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: And the Justice Department is the department that Bondie heads 164 00:08:55,840 --> 00:08:57,720 Speaker 1: up as the attorney General exactly. 165 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:00,600 Speaker 2: So you have really a lack of essential message here 166 00:09:00,640 --> 00:09:03,319 Speaker 2: across an administration, which and you have to give credit 167 00:09:03,360 --> 00:09:07,040 Speaker 2: to the Trump administration, they've been relatively solid this term 168 00:09:07,360 --> 00:09:11,280 Speaker 2: on staying on message across key leaders of the administration. Yeah, 169 00:09:11,320 --> 00:09:14,000 Speaker 2: this was one of the really big moments where someone 170 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:16,720 Speaker 2: in Trump's inner circle has really deviated on quite a 171 00:09:16,720 --> 00:09:17,320 Speaker 2: big issue. 172 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:19,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, I mean, the attorney general's a very important job. 173 00:09:20,080 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: So that's very interesting. How did Trump's supporters react to 174 00:09:24,960 --> 00:09:27,920 Speaker 1: this kind of flip backflip, flip backflip. 175 00:09:28,120 --> 00:09:31,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is where this story really does get 176 00:09:31,520 --> 00:09:33,520 Speaker 2: even more interesting than it was a couple of weeks ago, 177 00:09:33,960 --> 00:09:36,679 Speaker 2: because we are seeing some cracks in the make America 178 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:41,400 Speaker 2: Great Again movement in the conservative side of the Republican Party. 179 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 2: Some key Trump allies are very unhappy, and the focus 180 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:47,520 Speaker 2: has shifted to whether Trump is blocking the release of 181 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:51,160 Speaker 2: the files because it is indeed incriminating for him. So 182 00:09:51,200 --> 00:09:55,800 Speaker 2: there's one side of the Republican and conservative ecosystem that 183 00:09:56,160 --> 00:09:59,880 Speaker 2: is basically saying that something sus is going on here 184 00:10:00,040 --> 00:10:03,240 Speaker 2: and that Panmbondi's files that she's talking about need to 185 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:05,240 Speaker 2: be produced to the public. But there's a whole other 186 00:10:05,320 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 2: side of the Maga ecosystem that's saying that Pambondi should 187 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:12,360 Speaker 2: lose her job because she's spoken out of turn, she's 188 00:10:12,400 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 2: thrown her boss potentially under the bus, or she's just 189 00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:16,719 Speaker 2: fabricating the entire thing. 190 00:10:16,840 --> 00:10:19,360 Speaker 1: Yeah wow, But it's not just kind of media and 191 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: the broader Maga ecosystem. What have we heard from inside 192 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: the White House. 193 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:26,160 Speaker 2: Well, a lot of the blow ups that we've heard 194 00:10:26,160 --> 00:10:28,120 Speaker 2: about from inside the White House over the last couple 195 00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 2: of days are in relation to Pambondi's handling of this case. 196 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:37,000 Speaker 2: So FBI director Cash Patel and his deputy Dan Bongino 197 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:42,040 Speaker 2: have apparently had this quote furious conversation. Dan Bongino hasn't 198 00:10:42,080 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 2: gone back to work since that conversation about whether Pambondi 199 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 2: should have released the files or not. Cash Patel has 200 00:10:48,800 --> 00:10:52,000 Speaker 2: said on x the conspiracy theories just aren't true, never 201 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:55,720 Speaker 2: have been, So he's remaining extremely loyal to the president, 202 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:58,760 Speaker 2: whilst clearly there's some splintering going on as well. 203 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,760 Speaker 1: I think the one whose reaction I don't yet know 204 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: is Trump himself. What's he said, Oh. 205 00:11:04,200 --> 00:11:07,320 Speaker 2: He's never short of a reaction. So firstly, it's important 206 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:09,600 Speaker 2: to say that Trump denies any wrongdoing at all, and 207 00:11:09,679 --> 00:11:13,920 Speaker 2: he has consistently downplayed any relationship he had with Epstein. 208 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 2: One thing I should also mention, though, is that there 209 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 2: are these photographs. There are these photographs of Epstein and 210 00:11:19,320 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: Trump together, and these have been around for many years, 211 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:26,640 Speaker 2: and Trump has always said that his photographed alongside thousands 212 00:11:26,679 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 2: of people all the time, and he has business associates 213 00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,360 Speaker 2: going back, you know, four or five decades. He can't 214 00:11:32,440 --> 00:11:34,840 Speaker 2: recall every person he's had an interaction with. 215 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,080 Speaker 1: And Trump was a New York real estate guy to 216 00:11:37,120 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: begin with. 217 00:11:37,679 --> 00:11:39,640 Speaker 2: It was his job to network. It was kind of 218 00:11:39,679 --> 00:11:42,120 Speaker 2: the lifestyle of the rich and famous, a powerful group 219 00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 2: of people. Of course they would have crossed paths. Is 220 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:48,520 Speaker 2: the Trump narrative, and so Trump has he has defended 221 00:11:48,559 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 2: his attorney general. It's been a little unusual. He said 222 00:11:52,040 --> 00:11:55,720 Speaker 2: at a cabinet meeting, it was unbelievable and a desecration 223 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:59,360 Speaker 2: that people were still talking about this creep being Epstein. 224 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:03,199 Speaker 2: And he basically said, we should be talking about much 225 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:07,040 Speaker 2: more important things. He referenced the Texas flash flooding, the 226 00:12:07,080 --> 00:12:10,360 Speaker 2: ongoing conflicts in Ukraine and across the Middle East as 227 00:12:10,440 --> 00:12:13,600 Speaker 2: the more important issues to be talking about. And then 228 00:12:13,640 --> 00:12:16,800 Speaker 2: he talked to Truth Social, his social media platform. On Saturday, 229 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:19,240 Speaker 2: he said, what's going on with my boys and in 230 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:23,240 Speaker 2: some cases gals. They're all going after Attorney General Pam Bondi, 231 00:12:23,320 --> 00:12:26,760 Speaker 2: who is doing a fantastic job. We're on one team MAGA, 232 00:12:26,840 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 2: and I don't like what's happening. So defending his attorney 233 00:12:29,840 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 2: general but clearly recognizing there's a bit of a splinter 234 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:33,240 Speaker 2: in the party. 235 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:34,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, criticizing his own base. 236 00:12:35,280 --> 00:12:37,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's kind of the first time he's really 237 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: been frustrated with his own supporters. And it's a very 238 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,440 Speaker 2: divisive topic because it was a major campaign promise that 239 00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,880 Speaker 2: helped mobilize the base, and it's led to a bit 240 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:50,440 Speaker 2: of a fixation by a lot of Make America Great 241 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:54,440 Speaker 2: Again influences over this deep state theory that we talked about, 242 00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:57,719 Speaker 2: that there's this hidden list and now that Trump may 243 00:12:57,720 --> 00:12:59,520 Speaker 2: be on the list, or the theory is that he 244 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:01,559 Speaker 2: might be on that list. He's gotten a bit of 245 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:04,240 Speaker 2: a trap here. He promised to expose corruption and is 246 00:13:04,240 --> 00:13:07,840 Speaker 2: now saying the evidence doesn't exist. And for those parts 247 00:13:07,840 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: who are genuinely interested in the conspiracy theory, and we 248 00:13:11,760 --> 00:13:14,079 Speaker 2: know how much of a whold conspiracy theories can have 249 00:13:14,400 --> 00:13:17,920 Speaker 2: on political followers and observers, it's caused a bit of 250 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 2: a credibility issue. 251 00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: So what do we think will be the long term 252 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:23,480 Speaker 1: effects of this? Do we think people will just move 253 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,880 Speaker 1: on or will it kind of continue to expand. 254 00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,960 Speaker 2: It's early days in this one, but one thing I 255 00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:32,160 Speaker 2: took note of yesterday was the Speaker of the House, 256 00:13:32,320 --> 00:13:35,000 Speaker 2: Mike Johnson. So this is one of the most senior 257 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 2: members of the Republican Party. He broke with the Trump 258 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:43,520 Speaker 2: administration's decision to keep the files secret. Slash say that 259 00:13:43,559 --> 00:13:46,120 Speaker 2: there aren't files to look at, and he called on 260 00:13:46,160 --> 00:13:49,439 Speaker 2: the DOJ to release the materials. Now, this is the 261 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:52,280 Speaker 2: first time that Mike Johnson has spoken out publicly in 262 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 2: opposition to the president. So there are some signs, Lucy 263 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:58,439 Speaker 2: that this story could be different to other chapters of 264 00:13:58,480 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: the Trump administration. 265 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:02,280 Speaker 1: Thanks for explaining that for us. Sam, all good and 266 00:14:02,440 --> 00:14:05,360 Speaker 1: thank you for joining us today. That's all for today's 267 00:14:05,360 --> 00:14:08,360 Speaker 1: Deep Dive. We'll be back again this afternoon with the headlines. 268 00:14:08,559 --> 00:14:15,040 Speaker 1: Until then, have a great day. My name is Lily 269 00:14:15,080 --> 00:14:18,480 Speaker 1: Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda Bungelung Kalkutin woman from 270 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:22,840 Speaker 1: Gadighl Country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast is 271 00:14:22,880 --> 00:14:25,360 Speaker 1: recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and pays 272 00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:28,600 Speaker 1: respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. 273 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:31,840 Speaker 1: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 274 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:33,160 Speaker 1: both past and present.