1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,520 Speaker 1: I think we can all agree that having more humor 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:07,760 Speaker 1: and levity in the workplace is a good thing. But 3 00:00:08,039 --> 00:00:11,799 Speaker 1: maybe you just don't think you're all that funny, or 4 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: maybe you think you're a bit funny, but you want 5 00:00:14,480 --> 00:00:18,439 Speaker 1: to be even funnier. I personally think a lot about 6 00:00:18,520 --> 00:00:22,119 Speaker 1: humor when I'm writing new keynote presentations. I feel like 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:25,240 Speaker 1: it's not enough to just have good content. You need 8 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: to be entertaining too, and often that means making people laugh. 9 00:00:30,680 --> 00:00:33,599 Speaker 1: But there are days when nothing comes to me and 10 00:00:33,640 --> 00:00:37,840 Speaker 1: I think to myself, how can I be funnier? Well, 11 00:00:38,080 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: it turns out that there are specific things that we 12 00:00:40,640 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 1: can all do to be much funnier at work and 13 00:00:44,080 --> 00:00:51,360 Speaker 1: in life. My name is doctor Amantha Imber. I'm an 14 00:00:51,440 --> 00:00:55,720 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium. 15 00:00:55,960 --> 00:00:58,960 Speaker 1: And this is how I work, a show about how 16 00:00:59,000 --> 00:01:02,800 Speaker 1: to help you do your best work. On Today is 17 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: my Favorite Tip episode, we go back to an interview 18 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:07,920 Speaker 1: from the past and I pick out my favorite tip 19 00:01:07,959 --> 00:01:12,560 Speaker 1: from the interview. In today's show, I speak with Naomi Bagdonis, 20 00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,320 Speaker 1: who teaches humor at the Stanford Graduate School of Business, 21 00:01:16,440 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: and she's also the co author of the best selling 22 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 1: book Humor Seriously, and in this extract of my chat 23 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,280 Speaker 1: with Naomi, she shares some really practical ways that we 24 00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:29,679 Speaker 1: can all be funnier at work. 25 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:33,520 Speaker 2: So there are some really basic principles of comedy that 26 00:01:33,680 --> 00:01:36,000 Speaker 2: I have found really accessible. And I should back up 27 00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,960 Speaker 2: for a second and say that we're sort of going 28 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:41,000 Speaker 2: at this backwards, because the thing that we say to 29 00:01:41,040 --> 00:01:44,120 Speaker 2: our students first and foremost is this is not about 30 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:47,480 Speaker 2: being funny. It's not about telling jokes, it's not about 31 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 2: writing jokes. It's about fundamentally shifting our mindset so that 32 00:01:51,600 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: we're navigating our lives on the precipice of a smile. 33 00:01:54,400 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: And we use this analogy in the book of the 34 00:01:57,440 --> 00:02:01,680 Speaker 2: difference between levity, humor, and comedy is similar to the 35 00:02:01,720 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 2: relationship between movement, exercise, and sports. So if you think 36 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 2: of those things like a pyramid, you've got on the 37 00:02:08,040 --> 00:02:11,520 Speaker 2: base floor, levity and movement, these are just the way 38 00:02:11,560 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 2: that we navigate our world. So, whether it's our mindset 39 00:02:15,080 --> 00:02:18,240 Speaker 2: or whether it's our physicality, we know that small shifts 40 00:02:18,320 --> 00:02:21,399 Speaker 2: in our you know, whether we're our shoulders are back 41 00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 2: or whether our shoulders are hunched, are going to change 42 00:02:23,800 --> 00:02:26,560 Speaker 2: how people interact with us and how we feel. And similarly, 43 00:02:26,560 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 2: if we navigate our lives on the precipice of a 44 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:30,560 Speaker 2: smile versus the precipice of a frown, it's going to 45 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:34,840 Speaker 2: change everything. So that first level of levity is really 46 00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:37,960 Speaker 2: what we're going for now. The reason that we spend 47 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:42,320 Speaker 2: an entire chapter and more focused on comedy, focused on 48 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:47,680 Speaker 2: the craft and the art of comedy, is that comedy 49 00:02:47,760 --> 00:02:49,800 Speaker 2: is like a sport. There are rules that you follow, 50 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 2: there are moves that you make to get the outcomes 51 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: you want, in this case laughter, and so our goal 52 00:02:54,840 --> 00:02:57,880 Speaker 2: there is to teach a few of these moves so 53 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:02,200 Speaker 2: that you can just feel more comfortable getting off the couch. 54 00:03:02,320 --> 00:03:04,480 Speaker 2: Like right, we're not playing sports. We just want to 55 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:07,160 Speaker 2: know what those moves are so that it comes more 56 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,440 Speaker 2: naturally to us, so that we can craft our humor 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: in a way that other people will find funny. So 58 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:14,760 Speaker 2: that's a long digression to say, we're going to talk 59 00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:16,799 Speaker 2: about comedy for a few minutes. But if you are 60 00:03:16,840 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 2: not a person who's inclined to comedy, Amantha, I know 61 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,720 Speaker 2: that you are, which is awesome, But for those who 62 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,799 Speaker 2: are listening who are not, there's so much more here 63 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: that's actually important outside of of that, just that comedy element. Okay, 64 00:03:31,680 --> 00:03:34,600 Speaker 2: So that being said, let's see a comedy. One oh one. 65 00:03:34,720 --> 00:03:37,200 Speaker 2: So the two principles I love to share first are 66 00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,400 Speaker 2: number one, at the heart of comedy is truth and 67 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:45,119 Speaker 2: number two, misdirection is key to getting laughs. So think 68 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:47,880 Speaker 2: about truth. You often laugh because you think, oh, I 69 00:03:48,200 --> 00:03:50,680 Speaker 2: do that, or I've seen people do that. Right, there's 70 00:03:50,720 --> 00:03:54,360 Speaker 2: a recognition that comes that often makes us laugh. And 71 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: then misdirection occurs when we think someone will zig and 72 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:01,480 Speaker 2: instead they ostriche right, Okay, so we think they'll go 73 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 2: one way and they go the other way. And so 74 00:04:03,440 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 2: one really simple example I give my students is imagine 75 00:04:06,480 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 2: that you are at a dinner party. Remember dinner parties, 76 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:14,720 Speaker 2: by the way, so such quaint times. So you're at 77 00:04:14,720 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 2: this dinner party and you're halfway through the second course 78 00:04:18,080 --> 00:04:21,400 Speaker 2: and one of your friends walks in late and she says, sorry, 79 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 2: I'm late, I didn't want to come. Now this is 80 00:04:25,080 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 2: potentially you know, she says it with a smile. We 81 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:30,680 Speaker 2: were like, okay, that's that's pretty funny. Now the truth here, 82 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 2: sorry I'm late, I didn't want to come. The truth 83 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,440 Speaker 2: is obvious. We've all felt this way where we don't 84 00:04:34,440 --> 00:04:39,440 Speaker 2: really want to get off the couch. The misdirection is in, Actually, Amantha, 85 00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:41,800 Speaker 2: where do you think the misdirection is in that Sorry 86 00:04:41,800 --> 00:04:43,400 Speaker 2: I'm late, I didn't want to come. 87 00:04:44,120 --> 00:04:46,279 Speaker 1: Well, I guess it's in the I didn't want to 88 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,120 Speaker 1: come because nobody expects you to say the truth in 89 00:04:49,120 --> 00:04:50,159 Speaker 1: that scenario. 90 00:04:50,240 --> 00:04:54,279 Speaker 2: Exactly right, So we expect a thinly veiled excuse. Sorry 91 00:04:54,279 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 2: I'm late, traffic was horrible. Sorry i'm late. The link 92 00:04:57,080 --> 00:05:00,280 Speaker 2: didn't work. Sorry i'm late. It's twenty twenty one. You're 93 00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,480 Speaker 2: into a pandemic. Does lateness even matter anymore? So what 94 00:05:03,520 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: this means is two things. Number One, comedy isn't about 95 00:05:07,520 --> 00:05:11,599 Speaker 2: making things up. It's really about being observant, about finding 96 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:14,359 Speaker 2: truth in our lives. And this is the most important 97 00:05:14,360 --> 00:05:17,680 Speaker 2: misperception we find with our students and executives is they'll 98 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:19,800 Speaker 2: come to us. You know, an executive will come to 99 00:05:19,839 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 2: me and say, Hey, I'm giving a talk. I want 100 00:05:22,400 --> 00:05:26,599 Speaker 2: to be funny. What joke should I tell? And I'll 101 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:29,680 Speaker 2: say fantastic. I'll push the papers to the side and 102 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,560 Speaker 2: I'll say, tell me about yourself. What is true for you? 103 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: What do you like more than other people? What do 104 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:38,960 Speaker 2: you dislike more than other people? What areas of contrast 105 00:05:39,080 --> 00:05:42,159 Speaker 2: or incongruity exist in your life? And we'll do this 106 00:05:42,279 --> 00:05:46,560 Speaker 2: sort of genuine truth finding where reminding their lives for 107 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,599 Speaker 2: authentic material that they can then turn into humor. And 108 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,320 Speaker 2: then the second thing that this tells us is that 109 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,760 Speaker 2: structure matters. A seed of an idea often isn't enough. 110 00:05:56,800 --> 00:05:58,599 Speaker 2: It needs to be encased in a way that leads 111 00:05:58,680 --> 00:06:01,680 Speaker 2: us in a different direction. So that's why in the 112 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 2: book we go through these techniques from comedians, first mining 113 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:10,560 Speaker 2: your life for observations and then second applying a couple 114 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:15,479 Speaker 2: really easy frameworks. So I'll give a fly through that 115 00:06:15,560 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 2: sort of process that I would go through. So first 116 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:20,960 Speaker 2: I'm going to make mundane observations about my life. Right, 117 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 2: it's not about inventing something from thin air. It's just 118 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,560 Speaker 2: about noticing what's true. So I might say, I might 119 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:29,119 Speaker 2: tell you that my dog is incredibly excited at dinner 120 00:06:29,160 --> 00:06:31,600 Speaker 2: time even though he's eating the same food he always eats, 121 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:36,120 Speaker 2: or how my kids never listen to me, or how 122 00:06:36,720 --> 00:06:39,440 Speaker 2: I go for a walk every day just to change 123 00:06:39,480 --> 00:06:42,320 Speaker 2: up the day a little bit. So I have these observations. 124 00:06:42,320 --> 00:06:45,320 Speaker 2: They're not funny, but they're just true. And then you 125 00:06:45,360 --> 00:06:48,080 Speaker 2: can apply one or more of the techniques that we 126 00:06:48,160 --> 00:06:49,719 Speaker 2: go over in the book, and the three most common 127 00:06:49,720 --> 00:06:53,720 Speaker 2: ones are exaggeration, contrast, and rule of three. So I'll 128 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:59,040 Speaker 2: use exaggeration contrast. For example, So Larry David said, I 129 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,520 Speaker 2: had a wonderful child, which is tough because it's hard 130 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 2: to adjust to a miserable adulthood. Right, So all he's 131 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:06,599 Speaker 2: doing here is he's creating contrast between how he felt 132 00:07:06,600 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 2: about his childhood and how he feels about his adulthood. 133 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 2: And then also using exaggeration because he probably doesn't have 134 00:07:12,120 --> 00:07:15,040 Speaker 2: a totally miserable adulthood, but you know, he's trying to 135 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:17,240 Speaker 2: create that. And then the other technique that people find 136 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 2: really easy is rule of three. So this is where 137 00:07:20,120 --> 00:07:21,920 Speaker 2: you make a really simple list where the first two 138 00:07:21,960 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 2: elements lead people in one direction and then the third 139 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:29,680 Speaker 2: reveals something unexpected. So I might say I miss so 140 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:33,240 Speaker 2: many things about in person office life. You know, I 141 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 2: miss the support of eye contact, I miss spontaneous lunches 142 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,600 Speaker 2: with colleagues, and I miss wearing pants. Right, so you're 143 00:07:42,600 --> 00:07:47,000 Speaker 2: sort of going ab and apple. So these are again 144 00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 2: these they seem like really simple hacks. But once you 145 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 2: start noticing the frameworks, you'll start seeing them everywhere in comedy, 146 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:56,640 Speaker 2: and then they'll start coming more naturally to you as 147 00:07:56,640 --> 00:07:59,320 Speaker 2: you're trying to turn your humor into something that feels funny. 148 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 1: And what about collbecks? Because I feel like people knowing 149 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,960 Speaker 1: about collbecks might think that's an opportunity for me to 150 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: be funny, even if I, you know, don't feel confident 151 00:08:11,440 --> 00:08:14,440 Speaker 1: constructing a whole joke. So can you talk about callbecks? 152 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:17,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's such a great one, so that the callback 153 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,200 Speaker 2: is the safest joke to make. And this is where 154 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:22,520 Speaker 2: you just make a reference to a moment that already 155 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,840 Speaker 2: got a laugh. So, as one example, I was in 156 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 2: a Zoom call the other day and it was a 157 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,640 Speaker 2: group of CFOs and retired CFOs, and they were all 158 00:08:32,679 --> 00:08:35,520 Speaker 2: going around the table introducing themselves, and it became clear 159 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:37,640 Speaker 2: that it was sort of a ridiculous thing to continue 160 00:08:37,640 --> 00:08:41,440 Speaker 2: introducing themselves as CFOs because everyone was a CFO. And so, 161 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 2: you know, one person says, I'm a CFO, the other 162 00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 2: person says, I'm retired CFO. The next person says I'm 163 00:08:46,880 --> 00:08:50,200 Speaker 2: a CFO, and then one woman introduces herself and says 164 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:54,040 Speaker 2: I'm a recovering CFO, indicating that she's like recovering from 165 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,439 Speaker 2: it rather than retired from it. You know, the whole 166 00:08:56,559 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 2: call laughs, everyone has this shared experience. Couple people later, 167 00:09:01,200 --> 00:09:06,760 Speaker 2: another woman says, I'm also a recovering CFO. Again everyone laughs, 168 00:09:06,760 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 2: and it's sort of this callback that makes the first 169 00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:13,360 Speaker 2: person feel good. A little bit later, a third person says, 170 00:09:14,040 --> 00:09:18,280 Speaker 2: I'm an aspiring recovering CFO. Right, so this is now 171 00:09:18,360 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 2: taking that callback and it's building upon it, and again 172 00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 2: everyone laughs. So it's really low risk because it's just 173 00:09:26,200 --> 00:09:29,000 Speaker 2: making reference to something that already got to laugh. It 174 00:09:29,320 --> 00:09:32,800 Speaker 2: makes the first joke teller feel valued and seen. So 175 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:36,360 Speaker 2: it's incredible relationship builder in that way, and in a 176 00:09:36,400 --> 00:09:40,120 Speaker 2: group of people, it can be a powerful tactic to 177 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:42,400 Speaker 2: create an in group, and create an in group in 178 00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:45,840 Speaker 2: a way that's that's powerful and safe and good for 179 00:09:45,880 --> 00:09:49,920 Speaker 2: the culture, rather than one that feels exclusive. 180 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: That is eatful today's show. If you are enjoying how 181 00:09:54,600 --> 00:09:59,000 Speaker 1: I would why not share each around with someone else 182 00:09:59,080 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: that you think could benefit. Maybe you know someone who's 183 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,480 Speaker 1: trying to be funnier, or maybe someone who's not that funny, 184 00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:08,000 Speaker 1: but they could do with an injection of humor in 185 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: their life. So maybe share this episode with them, or 186 00:10:10,720 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 1: just tell them about how I work in general. How 187 00:10:13,320 --> 00:10:16,240 Speaker 1: I Work is produced by Inventing with production support from 188 00:10:16,320 --> 00:10:19,760 Speaker 1: Dead Set Studios. Thank you to Martin Nimber who did 189 00:10:19,800 --> 00:10:23,520 Speaker 1: the audio mix and makes everything sound awesome. I'll see 190 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:24,120 Speaker 1: you next time.