1
00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:03,560
Speaker 1: If you're anything like me, your inbox is cluttered with

2
00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:07,280
Speaker 1: E newsletters that you don't read. I sometimes feel like

3
00:00:07,320 --> 00:00:10,200
Speaker 1: I'm playing a game of whack a mole, unsubscribing to

4
00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:12,520
Speaker 1: several every day while new.

5
00:00:12,400 --> 00:00:15,960
Speaker 2: Ones sneak in. But there are a handful of E.

6
00:00:16,040 --> 00:00:19,439
Speaker 1: Newsletters that I actually look forward to reading, and one

7
00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,640
Speaker 1: of them is called Recommendo, which is co written by

8
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:24,680
Speaker 1: Wired co founder Kevin Kelly.

9
00:00:25,440 --> 00:00:27,480
Speaker 2: Now, as you would expect.

10
00:00:27,000 --> 00:00:31,600
Speaker 1: From someone who founded arguably the most influential tech magazine

11
00:00:31,640 --> 00:00:35,839
Speaker 1: on the planet, Kevin epitomizes the phrase finger on the pulse.

12
00:00:36,640 --> 00:00:39,200
Speaker 1: I was lucky enough to be able to interview Kevin

13
00:00:39,440 --> 00:00:44,040
Speaker 1: last year, and he's kindly offered to come back on again. Now.

14
00:00:44,040 --> 00:00:45,720
Speaker 2: If you're interested as I.

15
00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:50,880
Speaker 1: Was, in Kevin's favorite apps, websites, E newsletters and predictions

16
00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:53,400
Speaker 1: for the next big thing, then I think you'll love

17
00:00:53,600 --> 00:00:56,400
Speaker 1: this chat. And if for anything like me, you'll probably

18
00:00:56,440 --> 00:00:59,240
Speaker 1: want to set aside some time after this interview to

19
00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:03,280
Speaker 1: explore some of the amazing things that he recommends.

20
00:01:07,600 --> 00:01:09,200
Speaker 2: My name is doctor Amantha Imber.

21
00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:12,880
Speaker 1: I'm an organizational psychologist and the founder of behavioral science

22
00:01:12,920 --> 00:01:16,640
Speaker 1: consultancy Inventium, and this is how I work, a show

23
00:01:16,760 --> 00:01:19,920
Speaker 1: about how to help you do your best work. So

24
00:01:20,000 --> 00:01:24,600
Speaker 1: my chat with Kevin starts with talking about his latest project,

25
00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,920
Speaker 1: Vanishing Asia. So let's head on over to Kevin to

26
00:01:28,000 --> 00:01:32,880
Speaker 1: learn about why he chose Kickstarter to fund his latest project.

27
00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:37,280
Speaker 3: I was trying to avoid self publishing this book, which

28
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:41,479
Speaker 3: is a very very large we'll call it an art book.

29
00:01:41,680 --> 00:01:45,600
Speaker 3: There is one thousand pages, it's divided up into three volumes.

30
00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:51,080
Speaker 3: There are nine thousand photographs, and I was hoping that

31
00:01:52,120 --> 00:01:55,840
Speaker 3: a big art book publisher will take it on, and

32
00:01:55,880 --> 00:02:00,120
Speaker 3: I was unable to convince them. I got rejected, and

33
00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:07,240
Speaker 3: so I'm going Kickstarter now. Kickstarter, which is a crowdfunding platform.

34
00:02:07,600 --> 00:02:12,280
Speaker 3: Actually it's economically better, but it's a full time job,

35
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:14,760
Speaker 3: which is why I was sort of avoiding it. So

36
00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:20,880
Speaker 3: in the end, it's a very viable method, very rewarding

37
00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:25,359
Speaker 3: because you have direct contact with your audience. But it's

38
00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:29,280
Speaker 3: a lot of work. And so far the campaign has

39
00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:30,080
Speaker 3: been going very well.

40
00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:33,840
Speaker 1: Yes, I hopped on literally about half an hour ago,

41
00:02:33,919 --> 00:02:36,200
Speaker 1: and I could see that you've got just over one

42
00:02:36,240 --> 00:02:38,079
Speaker 1: thousand backers as of today.

43
00:02:38,200 --> 00:02:39,200
Speaker 2: Congratulations.

44
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,959
Speaker 3: Yes, well, I have long been preaching the virtues of

45
00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,120
Speaker 3: one thousand true fans. And when I first wrote the

46
00:02:47,240 --> 00:02:50,280
Speaker 3: essay in two thousand and eight or so, it was

47
00:02:50,360 --> 00:02:53,919
Speaker 3: a theory that I had, and this was before Kickstarter

48
00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:57,960
Speaker 3: even existed, and now after all these years, it's no

49
00:02:58,040 --> 00:03:00,920
Speaker 3: longer a theory. It's sort of like a reality, and

50
00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:04,120
Speaker 3: I have personal experience of it with my own thousand

51
00:03:04,160 --> 00:03:05,720
Speaker 3: true fans right now.

52
00:03:05,760 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 1: And for those that haven't read your essay, around one

53
00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,400
Speaker 1: thousand true fans, which I must say, is one of

54
00:03:11,440 --> 00:03:12,880
Speaker 1: my favorite things that you've written.

55
00:03:13,120 --> 00:03:15,679
Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit more about that concept.

56
00:03:16,520 --> 00:03:19,560
Speaker 3: It's a bit of arithmetic, really, and it says that

57
00:03:19,639 --> 00:03:26,600
Speaker 3: what the new technology brings us, and that includes things

58
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:32,320
Speaker 3: like social media, email, YouTube, and Google search, all these things,

59
00:03:32,919 --> 00:03:36,560
Speaker 3: what they deliver to people who make things, what they

60
00:03:36,640 --> 00:03:39,560
Speaker 3: all get for the first time is a way to

61
00:03:39,640 --> 00:03:45,000
Speaker 3: have direct contact with their audience at a large scale.

62
00:03:45,920 --> 00:03:50,360
Speaker 3: Previous to that, the means of production and the means

63
00:03:50,400 --> 00:03:54,320
Speaker 3: of distribution. We're sort of bound up into large companies,

64
00:03:54,360 --> 00:03:55,920
Speaker 3: and so if you want to have a book and

65
00:03:56,120 --> 00:03:58,640
Speaker 3: reach people, you to have a publisher. If you're a

66
00:03:58,720 --> 00:04:01,800
Speaker 3: musician had to have a late ball. For you're a movie,

67
00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,720
Speaker 3: you had a studio, and so they did that work,

68
00:04:06,120 --> 00:04:09,400
Speaker 3: but they also acted as gatekeepers and costs. They also

69
00:04:09,440 --> 00:04:14,040
Speaker 3: took a little chunk, quite a substantial chunk of the money. Well,

70
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:17,480
Speaker 3: if you could bypass them, if you could have direct,

71
00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:25,680
Speaker 3: constant contact with your audience, then you don't need as

72
00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:30,119
Speaker 3: many of them to make a living because you're getting

73
00:04:30,160 --> 00:04:35,000
Speaker 3: all the money directly. So the arithmetic of that is, well,

74
00:04:35,040 --> 00:04:39,039
Speaker 3: if you could get one hundred dollars a year from

75
00:04:39,080 --> 00:04:43,360
Speaker 3: your true fans, which I defined simply as those fans

76
00:04:43,400 --> 00:04:46,920
Speaker 3: that will buy anything that you produce. They'll drive two

77
00:04:46,960 --> 00:04:50,400
Speaker 3: hundred miles to see you sing. They'll get the hardcover

78
00:04:50,480 --> 00:04:52,880
Speaker 3: and the paperback and the digital and audible version whatever.

79
00:04:53,160 --> 00:04:56,760
Speaker 3: They're diehard true fans. If you could find a thousand

80
00:04:56,839 --> 00:04:59,000
Speaker 3: of them and they're paying you one hundred dollars a year,

81
00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:01,560
Speaker 3: that's one hundred thousand dollars year, which sure is a

82
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:03,240
Speaker 3: very good living for most people.

83
00:05:03,880 --> 00:05:08,440
Speaker 1: I think it's such an inspiring concept for creators. Now,

84
00:05:08,480 --> 00:05:12,400
Speaker 1: you mentioned that running a Kickstarter campaign is like a

85
00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:16,280
Speaker 1: full time job, and for those that have never had

86
00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,719
Speaker 1: a Kickstarter campaign, can you explain why is.

87
00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:20,640
Speaker 2: It so much work?

88
00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:25,839
Speaker 3: So One of the misconceptions that people have about to

89
00:05:26,080 --> 00:05:29,280
Speaker 3: using a platform like Kickstarter is that they're going to

90
00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,680
Speaker 3: find their audience on Kickstarter, but that's not really what

91
00:05:33,720 --> 00:05:39,479
Speaker 3: it's about. You have to use Kickstarter to reach or

92
00:05:39,760 --> 00:05:44,479
Speaker 3: ignite your followers into action, but you still have the

93
00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:49,200
Speaker 3: hard work of finding all those thousand true fans. So

94
00:05:49,279 --> 00:05:51,960
Speaker 3: you don't find them on Kickstarter. You use Kickstarter to

95
00:05:52,080 --> 00:05:57,640
Speaker 3: put them into action, and that work is emailing, social media,

96
00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,160
Speaker 3: it's promotion, it's marketing. It's the kinds of things that

97
00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,560
Speaker 3: you do, but you're doing it first rather than later on.

98
00:06:04,640 --> 00:06:09,080
Speaker 3: I mean, the normal procedure for say, introducing a book

99
00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:12,359
Speaker 3: is to write the book. Then you are going to

100
00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:14,039
Speaker 3: sell the book, and then when it's printed, you're going

101
00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,200
Speaker 3: to do the marketing. Well, here're reversing that you're doing

102
00:06:17,240 --> 00:06:22,440
Speaker 3: the marketing first, but it's still the same kind of

103
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,720
Speaker 3: work that needs to be done had you pund it

104
00:06:25,760 --> 00:06:27,760
Speaker 3: in the other traditional order and made it and then

105
00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:30,719
Speaker 3: you want to sell it. My advice to others is

106
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,640
Speaker 3: that this is a full time job for that month

107
00:06:33,800 --> 00:06:37,120
Speaker 3: that you are running these things. And I say that

108
00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,960
Speaker 3: ties back to thousand true fans, because that is the

109
00:06:41,000 --> 00:06:46,200
Speaker 3: cost of that thousand true fans model. The cost is

110
00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:50,080
Speaker 3: that you have another job, and that job is tending

111
00:06:50,120 --> 00:06:56,160
Speaker 3: the fans, and I don't think everybody is suited for

112
00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,520
Speaker 3: that or want to do it. They're artists who say,

113
00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:01,120
Speaker 3: I don't want to deal with fans. I just want

114
00:07:01,160 --> 00:07:04,960
Speaker 3: to paint, and I'll pay for the benefits of having

115
00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:09,200
Speaker 3: a gallery and agents and other people involved and the

116
00:07:09,279 --> 00:07:13,240
Speaker 3: intermediates because I don't want to deal with that now.

117
00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:16,920
Speaker 1: One of my favorite things that you put out in

118
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:20,800
Speaker 1: the world in terms of content is your recommendo E newsletter,

119
00:07:21,080 --> 00:07:24,960
Speaker 1: which is something that I read religiously every week, and

120
00:07:25,840 --> 00:07:28,880
Speaker 1: you also do a podcast about cool tools. You have

121
00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,920
Speaker 1: a website. I feel like if something is released into

122
00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:35,320
Speaker 1: the world, you probably know about it. And I'd love

123
00:07:35,400 --> 00:07:38,679
Speaker 1: to start with newsletters because I know that you don't

124
00:07:38,720 --> 00:07:39,600
Speaker 1: subscribe to.

125
00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,160
Speaker 2: Many, so what are the ones that you look forward

126
00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:42,600
Speaker 2: to reading.

127
00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:49,440
Speaker 3: There is Tim Ferriss's legendary five Well It Friday, which

128
00:07:49,760 --> 00:07:54,920
Speaker 3: was partly inspiration for recommendo in that he had five

129
00:07:55,400 --> 00:08:00,880
Speaker 3: things that he basically recommended every week, and I, you know,

130
00:08:00,920 --> 00:08:04,920
Speaker 3: I will always look at that. There's a guy, David Perell,

131
00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:11,200
Speaker 3: who has Monday Musings where he kind of lists things

132
00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:18,040
Speaker 3: that he enjoyed that week. Austin Kleon who does a

133
00:08:18,080 --> 00:08:25,520
Speaker 3: weekly ten Things that he enjoyed that week. He's always surprising.

134
00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,240
Speaker 3: I think the thing that I look for when I

135
00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:34,480
Speaker 3: was a magazine subscriber and a newsletter subscriber and a

136
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,559
Speaker 3: web RSS feed reader is I like to be surprised.

137
00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:47,199
Speaker 3: There is a newsletter called The Browser that I highly recommend.

138
00:08:47,960 --> 00:08:52,480
Speaker 3: It's a paid newsletter, but the editor is somehow rather

139
00:08:52,640 --> 00:08:57,520
Speaker 3: read the entire web every day and they report on

140
00:08:58,000 --> 00:09:05,480
Speaker 3: the most reads, and it's I find it dangerous because

141
00:09:06,320 --> 00:09:09,079
Speaker 3: they find so much good stuff. Every one of them

142
00:09:09,120 --> 00:09:10,760
Speaker 3: is sister jam and you wind up pretty in it.

143
00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:13,360
Speaker 3: So actually I went for the weekly version because I

144
00:09:13,440 --> 00:09:17,480
Speaker 3: just couldn't take the daily version. It was just like

145
00:09:17,840 --> 00:09:20,160
Speaker 3: kind of the New Yorker. It was like too much

146
00:09:20,240 --> 00:09:21,959
Speaker 3: good stuff. I just can't keep up.

147
00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,760
Speaker 2: How about apps and software?

148
00:09:25,800 --> 00:09:29,120
Speaker 1: What are some things that you're loving at the moment,

149
00:09:29,160 --> 00:09:31,360
Speaker 1: because I remember last time you were on the show,

150
00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:36,800
Speaker 1: you mentioned an awesome app for the mobile phone, which

151
00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:39,120
Speaker 1: I think from memory was called sat where you could

152
00:09:39,120 --> 00:09:43,079
Speaker 1: scan any kind of plant and find out what its

153
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:43,679
Speaker 1: name was.

154
00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:47,560
Speaker 3: Just to remind listeners who maybe with those who don't

155
00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 3: know about it. It's a map for your phone and

156
00:09:50,280 --> 00:09:53,560
Speaker 3: it uses I won't say AI, but it uses machine

157
00:09:53,640 --> 00:09:58,680
Speaker 3: learning to recognize the species of plant that you pointed

158
00:09:58,720 --> 00:10:02,120
Speaker 3: out with your camera, and it's pretty good. I would

159
00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:04,959
Speaker 3: say ninety five percent of the time it can identify

160
00:10:05,080 --> 00:10:09,160
Speaker 3: what it is. There is amazingly some people don't know

161
00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:15,160
Speaker 3: about Google Translate, but when we resume traveling one of

162
00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:20,599
Speaker 3: these years, it has changed travel in foreign countries tremendously

163
00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:25,440
Speaker 3: because you can use it to translate kind of like

164
00:10:25,480 --> 00:10:29,480
Speaker 3: in real time with another person, back and forth and

165
00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:34,480
Speaker 3: a huge number of different language combinations. You're speaking into

166
00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:37,400
Speaker 3: the phone in one language and it repeats it in

167
00:10:37,440 --> 00:10:41,080
Speaker 3: another language in the host language, and back and forth

168
00:10:41,960 --> 00:10:45,160
Speaker 3: in a conversation, and it just really makes it travel

169
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:50,640
Speaker 3: possible to places that you might hesitate in going. Now

170
00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,240
Speaker 3: you have a translator with you.

171
00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:58,120
Speaker 1: Anything else on your computer even that you're finding really useful.

172
00:10:59,040 --> 00:11:01,680
Speaker 3: There isn't a lot in terms of like an app,

173
00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:05,599
Speaker 3: but but websites there are some cool places I like

174
00:11:05,679 --> 00:11:10,400
Speaker 3: to visit. I've been become more interested in generative art.

175
00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:17,200
Speaker 3: So my my thesis is that AIS robots AIS can

176
00:11:17,280 --> 00:11:19,440
Speaker 3: be creative and will be creative, but they'll be creative

177
00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:21,360
Speaker 3: in a very they won't have a kind of a

178
00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:25,120
Speaker 3: human kind of creativity. It'll be like watching aliens work,

179
00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:28,520
Speaker 3: like you know, aliens from another planet. And so there

180
00:11:28,559 --> 00:11:32,679
Speaker 3: are some sites already that are doing like art Breeder,

181
00:11:33,080 --> 00:11:36,360
Speaker 3: where some people use them to breed characters for games,

182
00:11:36,520 --> 00:11:39,920
Speaker 3: and you can do album covers and fonts and stuff,

183
00:11:39,960 --> 00:11:42,400
Speaker 3: and you kind of have to manage this like a gardener,

184
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:45,080
Speaker 3: where this stuff is literally breeding and you're trying to

185
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 3: direct it. It's a co creation. And that's again the

186
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:51,800
Speaker 3: model that I think we're going to have in AI

187
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:54,120
Speaker 3: for a very long time is this kind of partnership

188
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,560
Speaker 3: where it's suggesting kind of like how about this, how

189
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,280
Speaker 3: about this, and it's like, well that's what we've strained.

190
00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,160
Speaker 3: Maybe that's good, that's a good idea, let's go that way,

191
00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:05,560
Speaker 3: or that's you know, And a lot of it is

192
00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:07,800
Speaker 3: just stuff you're going to throw away and don't pay

193
00:12:07,800 --> 00:12:09,320
Speaker 3: attention to it. But every now and then there's this

194
00:12:09,360 --> 00:12:12,920
Speaker 3: thing I was like, that's interesting, that's good. And so

195
00:12:14,160 --> 00:12:18,520
Speaker 3: art Breeder is a site that you can breed art

196
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:23,000
Speaker 3: with and there's Soda right which will breed texts for

197
00:12:23,160 --> 00:12:27,079
Speaker 3: writers as kind of as prompts, and it can write

198
00:12:27,080 --> 00:12:30,320
Speaker 3: a scene, it can't write anything. It doesn't it's attention

199
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,160
Speaker 3: span is not enough to go beyond that. And I'm

200
00:12:33,160 --> 00:12:35,400
Speaker 3: sure there's one for music, but I'm not that familiar

201
00:12:35,440 --> 00:12:35,719
Speaker 3: with it.

202
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:41,520
Speaker 1: Wow, that's an absolutely fascinating Now on the topic of computers,

203
00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,000
Speaker 1: I know that occasionally in Recommendo you'll talk about keyboard shortcuts,

204
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:49,240
Speaker 1: and I must say I'm a little bit obsessed with

205
00:12:49,320 --> 00:12:52,360
Speaker 1: them at the moment. I had raccolv Laura, who's the

206
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,800
Speaker 1: co founder of Superhuman, on the show a few months ago,

207
00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:59,000
Speaker 1: and one of the pieces of advice he had is

208
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:03,280
Speaker 1: to really obsess over keyboard shortcuts so that you don't

209
00:13:03,320 --> 00:13:06,480
Speaker 1: have to use your mouse as much because mice slow

210
00:13:06,559 --> 00:13:11,280
Speaker 1: down productivity. So do you have any particular, less well

211
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,400
Speaker 1: known keyboard shortcuts that you would like to share.

212
00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:20,480
Speaker 3: There is one keyboard shortcut which I wish I had

213
00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:22,840
Speaker 3: known about many many years before, because it was something

214
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:26,360
Speaker 3: that I was always struggling with. And it is when

215
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:34,040
Speaker 3: you're pasting text from one document, one website, one something

216
00:13:34,080 --> 00:13:38,120
Speaker 3: to another. Oftentimes you're copying the formatting, and this is

217
00:13:38,240 --> 00:13:42,720
Speaker 3: a version of paste where you are pasting it stripped

218
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:47,000
Speaker 3: laws formatting and on the Mac it's shift option command

219
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,840
Speaker 3: V of course, the command V is normal paste, but

220
00:13:50,880 --> 00:13:52,199
Speaker 3: you're adding two other.

221
00:13:52,920 --> 00:13:53,920
Speaker 2: I love that shortcut.

222
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,240
Speaker 1: I remember when I first discovered it, and it is

223
00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,559
Speaker 1: it's life changing. Although funnily enough, in the latest version

224
00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:01,920
Speaker 1: of a note it doesn't work.

225
00:14:02,240 --> 00:14:03,880
Speaker 2: You have to go It's bizarre.

226
00:14:03,880 --> 00:14:07,160
Speaker 1: You have to go shift command Z, which does my

227
00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:11,280
Speaker 1: head in very annoying. If anyone from Evanoe is listening now,

228
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,720
Speaker 1: I know that you're like the epitome of a lifelong learner.

229
00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,320
Speaker 1: I feel like and I remember when I had you

230
00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,600
Speaker 1: on last time. You talked about how YouTube is your

231
00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,080
Speaker 1: main search engine for when you're trying to learn something,

232
00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:23,000
Speaker 1: but I know that you also dip into quite a

233
00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 1: few different online learning resources. What are your favorites?

234
00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I hate to say it, but really

235
00:14:30,600 --> 00:14:33,880
Speaker 3: it's hard to go deeper than YouTube. These days, even

236
00:14:33,960 --> 00:14:36,800
Speaker 3: in kind of the academic world, there's more and more

237
00:14:37,520 --> 00:14:43,320
Speaker 3: papers and talks that are put up, and there's something

238
00:14:43,320 --> 00:14:47,000
Speaker 3: called journal clubs that I have known about in the

239
00:14:47,080 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 3: scientific community. So the way journal club works in science

240
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,760
Speaker 3: is that researchers in a particular area have trouble like

241
00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:56,600
Speaker 3: areas keeping up, and so what they would do is

242
00:14:56,640 --> 00:14:59,240
Speaker 3: they have like a weekly or monthly journal club meeting,

243
00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,360
Speaker 3: and there are a group of them, and what they

244
00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:06,120
Speaker 3: basically do is they split up the task of reading

245
00:15:06,280 --> 00:15:10,360
Speaker 3: a journal paper and then reporting it back to the

246
00:15:10,360 --> 00:15:13,360
Speaker 3: rest of the group. And so let's say in a

247
00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:16,120
Speaker 3: year they do it monthly. They have twelve papers that

248
00:15:16,160 --> 00:15:18,400
Speaker 3: they can read deeply, because one of them will read

249
00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:21,280
Speaker 3: one of the papers and really understand it and then

250
00:15:21,320 --> 00:15:24,400
Speaker 3: make a presentation to the other eleven about what it

251
00:15:24,440 --> 00:15:28,640
Speaker 3: means and more and more of those are on YouTube,

252
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:30,960
Speaker 3: and if you can watch one of those, that's really

253
00:15:30,960 --> 00:15:34,520
Speaker 3: the best way to understand a paper, I would say.

254
00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:36,400
Speaker 3: The other place you want to look at is something

255
00:15:36,440 --> 00:15:43,320
Speaker 3: called sy hub. Si hub is a site that's sort

256
00:15:43,320 --> 00:15:47,120
Speaker 3: of a gray maybe pirate site. It's very hard to

257
00:15:47,200 --> 00:15:49,000
Speaker 3: agree on what it is, but it's a site that

258
00:15:49,040 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 3: basically offers you access to scientific papers in PDF form

259
00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,880
Speaker 3: outside of the journals. So a lot of the science

260
00:15:57,360 --> 00:16:00,640
Speaker 3: produced around the world is kept behind the very high

261
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:03,560
Speaker 3: price journals, which even if you're willing to pay a

262
00:16:03,560 --> 00:16:06,680
Speaker 3: little bit of money for, often not even available to

263
00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,080
Speaker 3: the individual and so sihab has basically scarfed all this

264
00:16:11,240 --> 00:16:13,760
Speaker 3: up and offers it. It's a little hard to use

265
00:16:13,760 --> 00:16:16,440
Speaker 3: because you can't really browse or even search. You have

266
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 3: to give it an address and then it will bring

267
00:16:19,320 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 3: forth the PDF.

268
00:16:21,240 --> 00:16:23,520
Speaker 2: I got to say, I love Sihab.

269
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,320
Speaker 1: I became quite obsessed with that site when I found

270
00:16:26,360 --> 00:16:29,800
Speaker 1: out about it. And it's sometimes down, like sometimes it

271
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,480
Speaker 1: doesn't work or you get error messages, and that is

272
00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:36,920
Speaker 1: enough to ruin my morning when sihab it's not working.

273
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,080
Speaker 1: I'm intrigued by these journal clubs. I haven't come across

274
00:16:40,120 --> 00:16:43,280
Speaker 1: that concept. Are there any go to or favorite people

275
00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:45,360
Speaker 1: that you follow for that concept?

276
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:48,480
Speaker 3: Well, well, there is one professor that he's not quite

277
00:16:48,520 --> 00:16:51,280
Speaker 3: a journal club, but he calls it two Minute Papers,

278
00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:55,360
Speaker 3: and he has a little YouTube channel called two Minute Papers,

279
00:16:55,400 --> 00:16:58,840
Speaker 3: and he takes scientific papers and does a two minute

280
00:16:58,920 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 3: and it's often more than two in it, but it's

281
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:04,359
Speaker 3: a short explanation of the papers. Most of the papers

282
00:17:04,400 --> 00:17:11,040
Speaker 3: are kind of in the AI CG computer graphics arena,

283
00:17:11,280 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 3: so it's very kind of exciting, cutting edge material. But

284
00:17:15,840 --> 00:17:20,960
Speaker 3: he does this job of kind of deconstructing the paper

285
00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:22,800
Speaker 3: and what's really cool about it. And most of the

286
00:17:22,800 --> 00:17:25,400
Speaker 3: time you can find these by just adding the word

287
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:29,960
Speaker 3: journal club in your search. That will often resurrect them.

288
00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,760
Speaker 1: Who are some of your other favorite people to follow

289
00:17:34,040 --> 00:17:36,640
Speaker 1: on various social media channels.

290
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,359
Speaker 3: A newsletter and a Twitter feed that I've recommended recently

291
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,520
Speaker 3: is an economist named Noah Smith. I follow him because

292
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:49,080
Speaker 3: he is very wide ranging, and he'll talk about the

293
00:17:49,080 --> 00:17:55,840
Speaker 3: economics of cities, to immigration to the restaurants of Japan.

294
00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 3: It's a very wide interest and I would say his

295
00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 3: in some ways of parallel person is Taylor Cohen, who

296
00:18:04,320 --> 00:18:08,439
Speaker 3: has a blog and he's also an economist with a

297
00:18:08,600 --> 00:18:12,040
Speaker 3: very very wide ranging interest in his He does it

298
00:18:12,080 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 3: every day, has readings he's read. He reads like a

299
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:18,800
Speaker 3: book a day, and I'm not joking, and so he

300
00:18:19,119 --> 00:18:25,440
Speaker 3: just uncovers all kinds of very unusual, odd but interesting

301
00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:29,239
Speaker 3: stuff from all over the web. And that's the kind

302
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,000
Speaker 3: of people I like to follow.

303
00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,439
Speaker 1: Right, it is just about time for a short little

304
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:36,120
Speaker 1: ad break.

305
00:18:36,320 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 2: If you are enjoying how I work.

306
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 1: You maybe maybe maybe want to hit pause and leave

307
00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:42,760
Speaker 1: a review.

308
00:18:43,119 --> 00:18:46,719
Speaker 2: Reviews awesome. I love reading them.

309
00:18:46,760 --> 00:18:49,080
Speaker 1: They just bring a huge smile to my face and

310
00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:52,680
Speaker 1: make my job even more rewarding. And they also help

311
00:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,000
Speaker 1: other people find out about the show. So after this

312
00:18:56,119 --> 00:19:00,080
Speaker 1: ad break, we will learn about Kevin's predictions for the

313
00:19:00,119 --> 00:19:04,159
Speaker 1: next big thing. Now, I know that you're someone that

314
00:19:04,240 --> 00:19:07,000
Speaker 1: is always on the lookout for the next new thing.

315
00:19:07,480 --> 00:19:09,840
Speaker 1: What are some of the things that are catching your

316
00:19:09,960 --> 00:19:11,000
Speaker 1: attention at the moment.

317
00:19:12,920 --> 00:19:18,640
Speaker 3: Well, I think everybody in the world will have a

318
00:19:18,680 --> 00:19:23,600
Speaker 3: migration from gasoline petrol fueled cars to electric cars will

319
00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 3: happen very fast because the electric cars are just superior

320
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,200
Speaker 3: in almost every dimension. We have an electric car that's

321
00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,600
Speaker 3: not a Tesla, it's a Chevy. It's a first American

322
00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,119
Speaker 3: owned car that we've ever owned. We've been in Japanese

323
00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:42,719
Speaker 3: Toyota all along, including the hybrid, but this car is

324
00:19:42,760 --> 00:19:47,200
Speaker 3: just the best performance car that we've ever had, and

325
00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,760
Speaker 3: there's nothing inside. It's just a big battery. We haven't

326
00:19:51,800 --> 00:19:55,960
Speaker 3: been to the gas station forever. We just plug in

327
00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:02,800
Speaker 3: at home. Gets pretty good range to forty miles. And

328
00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:06,520
Speaker 3: I think electric cars are poised to become the next

329
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:11,840
Speaker 3: big thing that everybody realizes and wants. And we're going

330
00:20:11,920 --> 00:20:14,000
Speaker 3: to start making pickup trucks where they are right now,

331
00:20:14,080 --> 00:20:16,840
Speaker 3: Rivian and others, and they're going to become just kind

332
00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:22,520
Speaker 3: of like people will realize that they're just superior in

333
00:20:22,560 --> 00:20:27,600
Speaker 3: every way except this range issue, which will be slowly

334
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:32,760
Speaker 3: resolved in charging stations, etc. I think that's the next

335
00:20:32,800 --> 00:20:35,760
Speaker 3: new thing. And I'm not talking about autonomous driving right now.

336
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:38,280
Speaker 3: I'm talking about just the electric car. I think the

337
00:20:38,320 --> 00:20:43,320
Speaker 3: autonomous is going to be ten years fifteen years away.

338
00:20:44,400 --> 00:20:47,680
Speaker 3: There'll be little parts of it driving, maybe on parts

339
00:20:47,680 --> 00:20:51,280
Speaker 3: of the highway or self parking, but I'm mostly just

340
00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:55,879
Speaker 3: talking about the movement to fully electric vehicles.

341
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:59,560
Speaker 1: Something you write about and recommendo recently in relation to

342
00:20:59,720 --> 00:21:01,919
Speaker 1: being one of the next new things that you're saying

343
00:21:01,960 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 1: of thetuber is can you talk about what that is?

344
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:09,199
Speaker 3: In the world of YouTube entertainment, people who are amusing

345
00:21:09,680 --> 00:21:15,960
Speaker 3: and interacting, et cetera, which is a part of what

346
00:21:16,040 --> 00:21:19,479
Speaker 3: people get. So there's instructions and then there's kind of

347
00:21:21,840 --> 00:21:27,200
Speaker 3: playing playfulness, people watching games, watching other people play games,

348
00:21:27,240 --> 00:21:29,560
Speaker 3: play games, and then watch other people play and et cetera.

349
00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:33,240
Speaker 3: In that kind of arena, there were virtual characters, people

350
00:21:33,240 --> 00:21:36,440
Speaker 3: who were not just making a persona but they actually

351
00:21:37,320 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 3: had a virtual character that they the human owner, was

352
00:21:46,000 --> 00:21:50,320
Speaker 3: manipulating with motion capture technology, the kinds of things they

353
00:21:50,320 --> 00:21:53,600
Speaker 3: would use to make a movie. So they would put

354
00:21:53,600 --> 00:21:57,480
Speaker 3: the apparatus on in their bedroom, say, and they would

355
00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:02,760
Speaker 3: project into a virtual student udio a version of them

356
00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:04,879
Speaker 3: that did not not look like them, maybe have a

357
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:08,080
Speaker 3: different voice, and they would sometimes adopt a different personality.

358
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:12,560
Speaker 3: And they yet they could live stream and interact with

359
00:22:12,920 --> 00:22:16,200
Speaker 3: fans like many of the people on Twitch do. So

360
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:20,160
Speaker 3: these were called YouTubers, like virtual YouTubers, and they had

361
00:22:20,359 --> 00:22:25,320
Speaker 3: started to get followings because they were characters and that

362
00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:27,520
Speaker 3: the interaction or of the you know, right now, there's

363
00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,720
Speaker 3: a little bit at the uncanny valley where you can

364
00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:34,400
Speaker 3: definitely tell that these are not real people. But we're

365
00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:38,240
Speaker 3: going very quickly to the through the uncanny canny valley

366
00:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,320
Speaker 3: where it will become more and more difficult to perceive

367
00:22:42,640 --> 00:22:48,640
Speaker 3: of these characters as not a real person. And the

368
00:22:48,720 --> 00:22:51,960
Speaker 3: major advantages it's like a mask for people. They can

369
00:22:52,160 --> 00:22:55,840
Speaker 3: play a character or more than one character and do

370
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,880
Speaker 3: things or be in sets that it would be impossible.

371
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,480
Speaker 3: So it's a fiction world. And I think this will

372
00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 3: be a whole new genre of entertainment that's not a movie,

373
00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:11,480
Speaker 3: and it's not like Twitch we're just watching someone play

374
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 3: a game. It's something else. And I think there'll be

375
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,320
Speaker 3: many versions of this, and we'll have other names synthetic

376
00:23:18,400 --> 00:23:22,680
Speaker 3: characters or whatever. But it's definitely something that's begun right now.

377
00:23:23,200 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 2: It's fascinating.

378
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:28,400
Speaker 1: Now, Kevin, my final question for you is, people who

379
00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:32,359
Speaker 1: want to connect with you and your Vanishing Asia project,

380
00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:33,679
Speaker 1: what is the best way to do that.

381
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,399
Speaker 3: I can be found at a website that's based on

382
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 3: my initials, kk dot org kk dot org, where my

383
00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,880
Speaker 3: books and articles and everything else is at least centralized

384
00:23:47,680 --> 00:23:52,120
Speaker 3: in the social media world. I'm Kevin two Kelly, Kevin

385
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:56,920
Speaker 3: number two Kelly on Twitter, Instagram, all that kind of

386
00:23:56,920 --> 00:24:03,440
Speaker 3: stuff at Kevin two Kelly and this project right now,

387
00:24:03,520 --> 00:24:07,439
Speaker 3: Vanishing Asia is a Kickstarter probably search for Vanishing Asia,

388
00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,840
Speaker 3: you'll see it. The book itself is based on still images.

389
00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:17,840
Speaker 3: It's an exuberant celebration of the disappearing traditions of Asia

390
00:24:18,000 --> 00:24:20,639
Speaker 3: and the ways in which they did things differently, so

391
00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:26,479
Speaker 3: it kind of celebrates difference and otherness. It's a thousand pages,

392
00:24:26,880 --> 00:24:31,359
Speaker 3: weighs twenty seven pounds. It's way too big, but it

393
00:24:31,440 --> 00:24:34,600
Speaker 3: represents this vast continent and the stuff that's in it.

394
00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:40,159
Speaker 3: There's discounts available, but they're going very fast. And I

395
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,080
Speaker 3: will say categorically that there is simply no other book

396
00:24:43,080 --> 00:24:45,960
Speaker 3: in the world like it, and I have all the

397
00:24:45,960 --> 00:24:48,280
Speaker 3: photo books and especially all the photo books of Asia

398
00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:50,320
Speaker 3: they have ever been printed, and there's nothing like it,

399
00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:54,879
Speaker 3: so I can guarantee you that that's it. Vanishing Asia,

400
00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 3: I Kickstarter amazing.

401
00:24:56,680 --> 00:24:59,560
Speaker 1: I will link to all that in the show notes. Kevin,

402
00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:02,399
Speaker 1: it has been absolutely fascinating.

403
00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:04,680
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for your time.

404
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:08,639
Speaker 3: It's been a delight. I really really treasure the opportunity

405
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:11,720
Speaker 3: to chat with you again, and I appreciate your interest

406
00:25:11,760 --> 00:25:12,639
Speaker 3: in my work. Thank you.

407
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:17,359
Speaker 1: That is it for today's show. If you are not

408
00:25:17,440 --> 00:25:19,359
Speaker 1: a subscriber to How I Work, you might want to

409
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: hit subscribe because next week I have got co founder

410
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:26,960
Speaker 1: and CEO of book Topia, Tony Nash on the show,

411
00:25:27,040 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 1: and we will be talking about all sorts of things,

412
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: including his diagnosis that he recently received for adult ADHD

413
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:38,520
Speaker 1: and how that has changed the way he approaches his work.

414
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 1: How I Work is produced by Inventing Him with production

415
00:25:42,119 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: support from.

416
00:25:42,720 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 2: Dead Set Studios.

417
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:47,360
Speaker 1: The producer for this episode was Jenna Coda, and thank

418
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 1: you to Matt Nimber, who does the audio mix for

419
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:53,560
Speaker 1: every episode and makes everything sound awesome.

420
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:55,040
Speaker 2: See you next time.