1 00:00:04,320 --> 00:00:06,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the technics 2 00:00:07,000 --> 00:00:09,280 Speaker 1: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 3 00:00:09,320 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 4 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:16,320 Speaker 1: organizational psychologist as the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: with finding ways to optimize my workday. This episode is 6 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: another my Favorite Tip episode. The title is probably pretty 7 00:00:23,920 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: self explanatory. It's about my favorite tip from each of 8 00:00:27,400 --> 00:00:30,680 Speaker 1: the interviews I conduct. I use this format because I 9 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 1: sometimes feel as a podcast listener that I just want 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: to get in, get the most amount of value from 11 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,919 Speaker 1: an episode, and then get out, So in this format, 12 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:39,559 Speaker 1: I try. 13 00:00:39,360 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: To do just that. 14 00:00:41,479 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 1: My guest today is Jocelyn k Gly, who is a 15 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: writer who is obsessed with how we can find more 16 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:51,560 Speaker 1: creativity and meaning in our daily work. She's the author 17 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:54,800 Speaker 1: of several books and was formerly the editor in chief 18 00:00:54,840 --> 00:00:57,960 Speaker 1: of ninety nine You. She also hosts the podcast Hurry 19 00:00:57,960 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 1: You Slowly, which is all about how you can be 20 00:01:00,120 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 1: more productive, creative, and resilient through the simple act of 21 00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:08,399 Speaker 1: slowing down. Now Justlyin literally wrote the book on good 22 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:13,000 Speaker 1: email habits. It's called Unsubscribed, So I was keen to 23 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: talk to her about her own email habits, especially after 24 00:01:17,120 --> 00:01:22,199 Speaker 1: writing that book. So on that note over to Jocelyn Well, at. 25 00:01:22,040 --> 00:01:23,800 Speaker 2: This point when I when I wrote the book, I 26 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,920 Speaker 2: was more in the world of you know, having lots 27 00:01:27,959 --> 00:01:30,160 Speaker 2: and lots and lots of email because I was, you know, 28 00:01:30,240 --> 00:01:32,800 Speaker 2: working sort of more well, I was working at a startup. 29 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:34,160 Speaker 2: I was going to say nine to five shop, but 30 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,400 Speaker 2: startup jobs aren't actually like that. So I had a 31 00:01:37,440 --> 00:01:39,520 Speaker 2: you know, a crazy amount of email. But now I 32 00:01:39,520 --> 00:01:42,280 Speaker 2: actually work for myself and it's it's it's quite a bit, 33 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:46,120 Speaker 2: quite a bit less. But you know, in terms of 34 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:50,400 Speaker 2: the stuff that I really use for myself from the book, 35 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:52,080 Speaker 2: I mean, I use everything that's in the book. But 36 00:01:52,160 --> 00:01:55,200 Speaker 2: I think that, you know, if people wanted to make 37 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:58,920 Speaker 2: one change, I mean, I think the most significant thing 38 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,440 Speaker 2: is to you know, switch from nibbling on your email 39 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 2: throughout the day to batch processing, right so picking you know, 40 00:02:06,720 --> 00:02:10,840 Speaker 2: a few maybe two or three discrete windows of time 41 00:02:10,880 --> 00:02:13,520 Speaker 2: throughout the day when you focus one hundred percent on 42 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:17,400 Speaker 2: your email and then otherwise you know, attempting to more 43 00:02:17,520 --> 00:02:20,600 Speaker 2: or less ignore your email and focus on other work. 44 00:02:20,800 --> 00:02:25,240 Speaker 2: And research has shown that, especially for people who have 45 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:27,799 Speaker 2: a high volume of email, that makes them feel more 46 00:02:27,840 --> 00:02:31,239 Speaker 2: productive and makes them feel less stressed, and it makes 47 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: them feel happier. So that's a pretty good argument in 48 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: favor of that. There's also some pretty interesting studies that 49 00:02:39,639 --> 00:02:42,000 Speaker 2: show that the more frequently you check your email, the 50 00:02:42,040 --> 00:02:45,560 Speaker 2: more stressed out you feel, so that kind of, you know, 51 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: backs up that notion as well. So I mean, I think, 52 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:51,919 Speaker 2: honestly that's the biggest shift. And I don't think it's 53 00:02:51,960 --> 00:02:53,600 Speaker 2: you know, sort of a crazy you know, it's not 54 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,679 Speaker 2: like people like, oh my god, like that's a such 55 00:02:55,720 --> 00:02:58,320 Speaker 2: a surprising tip, Like I think we try to do that, 56 00:02:59,040 --> 00:03:01,800 Speaker 2: but I think that there's a couple you know, aside 57 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,680 Speaker 2: from it making you feel less stressed, aside from it 58 00:03:04,720 --> 00:03:07,720 Speaker 2: actually making you more productive. I think also there's an 59 00:03:07,720 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: interesting layer to it that we don't think about a 60 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:12,560 Speaker 2: lot that kind of goes with that metaphor you were 61 00:03:12,560 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: talking about a physical mail, is that when you look 62 00:03:15,600 --> 00:03:17,520 Speaker 2: at your email, you know, sort of all at once, 63 00:03:17,600 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 2: as opposed to looking at it in a notification driven way, 64 00:03:21,320 --> 00:03:25,240 Speaker 2: it's much easier to prioritize, you know, when you're looking 65 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 2: at a chunk of twenty messages and you're trying to 66 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:31,080 Speaker 2: decide what's important. It's much easier to say, Okay, this 67 00:03:31,160 --> 00:03:34,000 Speaker 2: is important but not urgent. Okay, this is urgent, and 68 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 2: actually like this is someone who doesn't even really deserve 69 00:03:36,720 --> 00:03:39,280 Speaker 2: my time. When you're kind of chunking it like that, 70 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,240 Speaker 2: it makes it easier to make those decisions, Whereas when 71 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,280 Speaker 2: you're just kind of looking at every email as it 72 00:03:46,320 --> 00:03:49,920 Speaker 2: comes in, it's I think a lot harder to judge 73 00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 2: what's important and what's not important. And so you end 74 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,000 Speaker 2: up working in this really reactive way. And maybe you know, 75 00:03:55,120 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: giving a random stranger who shows up in your inbox 76 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 2: as much time as you know you might give one 77 00:04:00,600 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 2: of your most important clients. 78 00:04:03,080 --> 00:04:05,600 Speaker 1: I love that advice. And I think the batching of 79 00:04:05,640 --> 00:04:09,880 Speaker 1: email is so sensible. How do you personally apply that 80 00:04:09,920 --> 00:04:12,040 Speaker 1: in your own life, Like, what does the typical day 81 00:04:12,600 --> 00:04:15,240 Speaker 1: of email look like? And how do you then resist 82 00:04:15,240 --> 00:04:18,400 Speaker 1: the temptation of just sort of doing a just check 83 00:04:18,400 --> 00:04:20,800 Speaker 1: of email, maybe when you've hit a stuck point with something. 84 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:24,760 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, for me, well, I think the point that 85 00:04:24,839 --> 00:04:28,080 Speaker 2: email is really important, right that just to be conscious 86 00:04:28,120 --> 00:04:30,520 Speaker 2: that you often do it just when you're stuck, you know, 87 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,840 Speaker 2: sort of just at the moment when you are confronting 88 00:04:33,839 --> 00:04:36,440 Speaker 2: a really hard part of maybe a creative problem that 89 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:38,520 Speaker 2: you're trying to solve and that you won't be able 90 00:04:38,560 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: to push through it if you, you know, take one 91 00:04:40,520 --> 00:04:43,520 Speaker 2: of those breaks. But I think the other thing is, 92 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,400 Speaker 2: and this is what people really struggle with, is at 93 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:51,599 Speaker 2: different times, different messages from different people are you know, 94 00:04:51,760 --> 00:04:56,000 Speaker 2: very important or very pressing. Right, So for me, I 95 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 2: like to use I use Apple Mail on my phone 96 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,839 Speaker 2: and I use the VIP function, you know, where you 97 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:06,240 Speaker 2: can set different VIPs and then you can basically have 98 00:05:06,279 --> 00:05:09,000 Speaker 2: it sort of push to a text alert if you 99 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:11,279 Speaker 2: get an email from that person, which means that you 100 00:05:11,279 --> 00:05:13,680 Speaker 2: don't have to actually open up your inbox to know 101 00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 2: if you've gotten an email from one of these VIPs. 102 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:21,400 Speaker 2: And that's kind of a simple way to recognize, yes, 103 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 2: maybe I do really need to get an email from 104 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:27,719 Speaker 2: one or two or three different people, but I don't 105 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:30,680 Speaker 2: need to interrupt myself to give that attention to all 106 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:32,560 Speaker 2: of the other people who are going to show up 107 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 2: in my inbox who aren't those VIPs. So I think 108 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 2: figuring out some type of system where you're able to 109 00:05:39,040 --> 00:05:42,560 Speaker 2: and I constantly change those things based on project, you know. 110 00:05:42,600 --> 00:05:44,719 Speaker 2: So like when I was trying to get a book deal. 111 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:49,039 Speaker 2: My agent was a VIP because those messages were really important. 112 00:05:49,040 --> 00:05:52,680 Speaker 2: But once that moment of urgency ended, I took her 113 00:05:52,680 --> 00:05:56,119 Speaker 2: off the VIP list because, you know, those messages weren't 114 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:59,359 Speaker 2: pressing anymore. So I think kind of having a concept 115 00:05:59,360 --> 00:06:01,839 Speaker 2: of in your mind mind of you know, who is 116 00:06:01,920 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 2: important and who should be treated as urgent beast on 117 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:08,200 Speaker 2: the problems that you're and the projects that you're working on, 118 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:10,520 Speaker 2: makes that a little bit simpler. Hi. 119 00:06:10,640 --> 00:06:14,000 Speaker 1: There me again. I love the idea of having a 120 00:06:14,040 --> 00:06:18,240 Speaker 1: flexible VIP list. It's not something that I've thought about 121 00:06:18,240 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: doing before, but it makes so much sense. I think 122 00:06:21,400 --> 00:06:24,600 Speaker 1: I've always thought about my VIPs as fixed people are 123 00:06:24,640 --> 00:06:28,359 Speaker 1: important or they're not important. But after listening to this episode, 124 00:06:28,480 --> 00:06:32,240 Speaker 1: it made me really conscious of the most important projects 125 00:06:32,279 --> 00:06:34,159 Speaker 1: I have on the go at any point in time, 126 00:06:34,520 --> 00:06:38,279 Speaker 1: and actually adjusting my VIP list according to that. And 127 00:06:38,320 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 1: So for you, I wonder what you might take from 128 00:06:40,240 --> 00:06:43,880 Speaker 1: this episode. You someone who nibbles on their email throughout 129 00:06:43,920 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 1: the day, you know, I know? For me, well, I'm 130 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,400 Speaker 1: great at staying out of my inbox until late morning 131 00:06:49,440 --> 00:06:53,000 Speaker 1: or lunchtime. I can definitely be a Nibbler during the afternoon, 132 00:06:53,640 --> 00:06:57,360 Speaker 1: and the thing that helped me most was the Appfreedom 133 00:06:57,440 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 1: Dot two, which literally locks me out out of email, 134 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,479 Speaker 1: which is great for afternoons when will power is generally 135 00:07:03,600 --> 00:07:08,040 Speaker 1: pretty low. So good luckly thinking about your email approach today, 136 00:07:08,120 --> 00:07:10,920 Speaker 1: and please email me that's a joke, or you can 137 00:07:10,960 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: if you want to if you try to do something 138 00:07:13,400 --> 00:07:17,080 Speaker 1: and report back on how it works. And my email 139 00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:20,080 Speaker 1: is in the show notes. So that's it for today. 140 00:07:20,320 --> 00:07:22,560 Speaker 1: If you like this excerpt, you might want to listen 141 00:07:22,600 --> 00:07:24,960 Speaker 1: to my fool chat with Jocelyn, which I linked to 142 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,679 Speaker 1: in the show notes. And if you're enjoying how I work, 143 00:07:29,000 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: why not leave a review in Apple Podcasts or wherever 144 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:34,720 Speaker 1: you listen to your podcasts. I just love getting feedback 145 00:07:34,720 --> 00:07:38,800 Speaker 1: from listeners, so hugely appreciative if you do that. So 146 00:07:38,840 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: that is it for today and I'll see you next time.