WEBVTT - 08: Deep Impact 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:06.480 This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We 0:00:06.680 --> 0:00:11.840 urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:19.040 thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at 0:00:19.440 --> 0:00:29.440 lifeline dot org dot au. A twenty four year old 0:00:29.720 --> 0:00:35.960 devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a 0:00:38.520 --> 0:00:45.280 bags packed car running her daughters strapped into the backseat. 0:00:45.600 --> 0:00:49.120 Mom told me that she needed to go back inside 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:49.920 to grab something. 0:00:50.360 --> 0:00:53.320 Panic. I Amy is dead, Sir, I am his dead? 0:00:53.360 --> 0:00:55.480 Eight Confusion World, about five minutes. 0:00:55.520 --> 0:00:59.360 Say sit not to suicide one hundred percent. This is Emercy. 0:01:01.160 --> 0:01:05.400 What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy? 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:07.720 The Truth about Amy? 0:01:08.240 --> 0:01:17.000 Mum Episode eight. 0:01:20.200 --> 0:01:22.120 I'm Liam Bartlett. 0:01:22.959 --> 0:01:26.759 And I'm Alison Sandy one two. 0:01:27.640 --> 0:01:33.200 I love her lots and she loves me and mummy. 0:01:36.120 --> 0:01:39.360 This is a home video just before Amy died, showing 0:01:39.400 --> 0:01:43.120 a very excited and enthusiastic Tay and her prep class, 0:01:43.200 --> 0:01:49.680 singing and doing actions again when she gets to the 0:01:49.720 --> 0:01:51.360 park and she loves. 0:01:51.080 --> 0:01:53.880 Me and she loves me. 0:01:53.880 --> 0:02:01.920 Tay points to Amy, who's feeling on her phone. M 0:02:02.160 --> 0:02:06.240 At the end, Amy cheers and claps louder than anyone else. 0:02:06.400 --> 0:02:09.560 One man name. 0:02:15.480 --> 0:02:20.040 When this was recorded, Amy and Tay's father, David Simmons, 0:02:20.280 --> 0:02:24.680 had been together almost six years. A lot had happened 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.720 in that time, and their relationship was coming to a 0:02:27.760 --> 0:02:31.840 critical juncture. But before we get to that, here's what 0:02:31.880 --> 0:02:38.600 we know about David simmons life to this point. He 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:42.200 was born twenty sixth of January nineteen eighty four to 0:02:42.360 --> 0:02:47.080 Robert Simmons and Evelyn Foggerty, so when Amy died he 0:02:47.200 --> 0:02:51.119 was thirty. He had one sister and two half sisters, 0:02:51.560 --> 0:02:55.920 all younger than he is. Simmons is one hundred and 0:02:55.919 --> 0:03:00.280 seventy six centimeters tall, brown hair and brown eyes, and 0:03:00.320 --> 0:03:03.280 when he was with Amy, looks to have weighed about 0:03:03.480 --> 0:03:10.480 ninety kiloats. According to police records, he's known as a 0:03:10.520 --> 0:03:15.160 prohibited drug user who may be carrying a weapon such 0:03:15.160 --> 0:03:20.760 as a knife or a club, and suffers depression. Simmons 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:23.600 has a lengthy record dating back to about two thousand 0:03:23.600 --> 0:03:26.960 and four. It'd take too long to go through all 0:03:27.000 --> 0:03:30.120 of his criminal and traffic violations, but the worst of 0:03:30.160 --> 0:03:36.040 it includes assault, threats to injure, en danger and harm 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:41.840 any person, and drug possession. He's been in a number 0:03:41.840 --> 0:03:47.960 of fights, usually while intoxicated is considered violent and dangerous, and, 0:03:48.160 --> 0:03:54.560 like Larry said, quite the handful question is could he 0:03:55.080 --> 0:04:01.600 have killed Amy. Here's what David Simmons told police in 0:04:01.640 --> 0:04:04.000 his statement the night Amy died. 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:10.120 I am thirty years of age and live in Serpentine. 0:04:10.560 --> 0:04:14.240 I am currently self employed. On Thursday, the twenty sixth 0:04:14.240 --> 0:04:16.599 of June, at about four pm, I was at my 0:04:16.640 --> 0:04:22.200 home address two seven eighty three Southwest Highway, Serpentine. I 0:04:22.240 --> 0:04:25.120 was in company with my two friends, Josh Brydon and 0:04:25.160 --> 0:04:28.719 Gareth Price. It was at this time that my partner, 0:04:28.920 --> 0:04:32.000 Amy Lee Wensley, arrived home with my two children, who 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:35.000 she had just picked up from school. Amy came into 0:04:35.000 --> 0:04:37.120 the house with the kids and asked me what I 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:39.640 had been doing all day. I told her that I 0:04:39.640 --> 0:04:41.760 had been cutting wood with my friends and I was 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.600 about to go and look for some more. This quickly 0:04:44.680 --> 0:04:48.680 escalated into an argument between us. During the argument, we 0:04:48.680 --> 0:04:51.080 were in the master bedroom, where Amy knocked over a 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:54.359 large mirror towards me. I stopped it from falling to 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:57.760 the ground. Amy began to hit me several times, and 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.320 when I tried to grab her to stop her, she 0:05:00.400 --> 0:05:03.840 head butted my lip, causing it to split. I managed 0:05:03.839 --> 0:05:06.320 to restrain Amy on the floor of the bedroom, where 0:05:06.360 --> 0:05:09.320 I held her until she calmed down. I held her 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.479 there for a couple of seconds. After I let her go, 0:05:12.880 --> 0:05:15.120 Amy went out to the shed at the northwest side 0:05:15.120 --> 0:05:18.640 of the house. She was with my daughter Naya. I 0:05:18.760 --> 0:05:21.240 was still in the house when Naa came back inside 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:24.560 crying and screaming. I gave Nea a cuddle, and she 0:05:24.640 --> 0:05:26.800 told me that Amy had smashed a fish tank in 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.559 the shed. I went out to the shed and began 0:05:29.600 --> 0:05:31.599 to clean up the glass that had been smashed on 0:05:31.600 --> 0:05:34.479 the floor. Amy had already left the shed when I 0:05:34.520 --> 0:05:37.279 got there. I was cleaning in the shed for about 0:05:37.320 --> 0:05:37.880 two minutes. 0:05:38.800 --> 0:05:43.880 According to evidence provided by Price and Brdon, they were 0:05:43.920 --> 0:05:46.360 cleaning up the lizard tag, not Simmons. 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:49.440 When I came back into the house, Amy had begun 0:05:49.520 --> 0:05:52.599 to pack her bags. I asked her what she was doing, 0:05:52.800 --> 0:05:54.520 and she said that she was going to stay at 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.640 her mum's house. I helped her pack some items and 0:05:57.680 --> 0:05:59.520 then took the kids to the car at the front 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:02.120 of the property. After the kids were in the car, 0:06:02.320 --> 0:06:04.520 I went back to see if Amy wanted anything else 0:06:04.640 --> 0:06:07.440 and if I could help her. Amy said she needed 0:06:07.440 --> 0:06:09.560 to calm down a little bit before she drove to 0:06:09.600 --> 0:06:12.240 her mum's. I went and got another bag full of 0:06:12.320 --> 0:06:14.520 kids clothes and took it out to the car as well. 0:06:15.320 --> 0:06:17.240 Not long after, I was waiting for Amy and the 0:06:17.320 --> 0:06:19.800 kids by the car and I heard a thud. I 0:06:19.839 --> 0:06:22.680 went back inside the house, straight to the bedroom and knocked, 0:06:23.000 --> 0:06:26.160 calling out to Amy. There was no answer, so I 0:06:26.200 --> 0:06:30.479 opened the door slightly again. When Price tells it, she said, 0:06:31.160 --> 0:06:34.359 just a minute, I could see Amy's foot just inside 0:06:34.400 --> 0:06:37.679 the bedroom. The next thing I saw was Amy laying 0:06:37.680 --> 0:06:39.960 on the floor of the bedroom with a shotgun next 0:06:40.000 --> 0:06:40.279 to her. 0:06:40.680 --> 0:06:44.719 So Simmons says, here she was laying down with the 0:06:44.800 --> 0:06:48.680 gun next to her, while Price said she'd been sitting 0:06:48.760 --> 0:06:50.719 up with the gun on her lap. 0:06:51.120 --> 0:06:53.320 I could see the back of her skull was missing. 0:06:53.760 --> 0:06:56.200 I went back to the car and told Gareth about Amy. 0:06:56.720 --> 0:06:59.599 Gareth had been waiting for Amy with the kids and myself. 0:07:00.120 --> 0:07:03.880 Neither myself nor Gareth have working mobile phones, so we 0:07:03.960 --> 0:07:06.720 drove to the petrol station nearby to call the ambulance. 0:07:07.640 --> 0:07:10.160 I did not want the children to find out, so 0:07:10.240 --> 0:07:12.800 I dropped Gareth at the house then took the kids 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:15.840 to Amy's parents house. When I got back from Amy's 0:07:15.880 --> 0:07:18.880 parents house in Pinjarra, the police had arrived. Where the 0:07:18.880 --> 0:07:22.480 front of my address is. I provided them this statement there. 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:27.960 Both myself and Amy have a current firearms license. I 0:07:28.040 --> 0:07:30.560 own a twenty two and a three to eight rifle, 0:07:31.000 --> 0:07:34.000 as well as the four ten and a twelve gage shotgun. 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:39.040 Amy owns a twenty two rifle. All these guns are 0:07:39.080 --> 0:07:43.640 stored unsecured in the wardrobe of the master bedroom. The 0:07:43.720 --> 0:07:47.120 ammunition is also stored in the wardrobe, but high up 0:07:47.160 --> 0:07:50.320 on a shelf. The shotgun I saw next to Amy 0:07:50.480 --> 0:07:54.000 was my four ten boito shotgun. It was facing towards her, 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:57.440 down by her legs, about a meter away. I drew 0:07:57.480 --> 0:07:59.480 a sketch of the room where I found Amy for 0:07:59.560 --> 0:08:02.920 the police. The statement is true to the best of 0:08:02.960 --> 0:08:07.239 my knowledge and belief. I have made this statement knowing 0:08:07.320 --> 0:08:10.200 that if it is tendered in evidence, I will be 0:08:10.240 --> 0:08:13.160 guilty of a crime if I have wilfully included in 0:08:13.160 --> 0:08:16.520 the statement anything that I know to be false or 0:08:16.600 --> 0:08:20.680 that I do not believe is true. 0:08:22.840 --> 0:08:25.880 Like Gareth, there are other statements David made, once to 0:08:26.000 --> 0:08:28.920 major Crime and again the cold case but none of 0:08:28.960 --> 0:08:33.120 these are available. However, information from them are referred to 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.959 at the inquest. Now, you may recall that David didn't 0:08:37.000 --> 0:08:38.960 turn up to the Coroner's Court the day he was 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:44.439 scheduled to appear. Counsel assisting the family requested a bench warrant, 0:08:44.679 --> 0:08:48.320 but this wasn't supported by WA Police and Deputy State 0:08:48.360 --> 0:08:53.319 Coroner Sarah Linton did not proceed with one. He does 0:08:53.360 --> 0:08:56.360 turn up the following day, but at Armadale Court and 0:08:56.520 --> 0:09:02.880 is heard via videolink. Counsel assisting the Coroner, Sarah Tyler, 0:09:02.960 --> 0:09:04.520 begins the questioning. 0:09:06.120 --> 0:09:09.360 Could you state your full name for the court please, David, 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:12.440 Robert Simmons and David just for the benefit of the court, 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:16.120 for everyone in the court. You contacted the Coroner's Court 0:09:16.200 --> 0:09:19.479 yesterday to explain that you were feeling a bit overwhelmed 0:09:19.520 --> 0:09:22.840 with this process, which is why you didn't come yesterday. 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:26.840 Is that right, Yes, ma'am. Yes, you're feeling okay today 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:29.840 and you're willing to tell the coroner what you remember 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:31.000 about Amy's death. 0:09:31.559 --> 0:09:33.439 Yes, I can, yes. 0:09:33.480 --> 0:09:36.800 All right now, I understand that you've already given statements 0:09:36.840 --> 0:09:40.400 to the police and you've participated in police interviews about 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.679 Amy's death. The first statement that you gave was on 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.840 the twenty sixth of June twenty fourteen, and the night 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:50.720 that Amy died. It was a seven page long statement 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:53.000 and you wrote that while you were waiting on the 0:09:53.080 --> 0:09:56.080 roadside at the property belonging to your father. Is that right? 0:09:56.559 --> 0:09:59.640 I can't remember exactly, but yes, I do remember talking. 0:10:00.360 --> 0:10:02.760 Sorry I just interrupted you. What did you say? 0:10:02.800 --> 0:10:05.960 I do remember talking to them? Yes, yes, when. 0:10:05.760 --> 0:10:08.400 You spoke to the police on that occasion, would you 0:10:08.440 --> 0:10:12.240 have told everything that you told them then to be 0:10:12.320 --> 0:10:12.760 the truth? 0:10:13.120 --> 0:10:14.480 Yes? I can't see why not. 0:10:14.640 --> 0:10:17.959 Okay, Well, you were then interviewed by the police that Saturday. 0:10:18.040 --> 0:10:21.120 So on twenty eighth of June twenty fourteen, you were 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.080 taken to the police station under arrest and you participated 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.120 in a recorded interview. Do you remember that not as well? 0:10:28.880 --> 0:10:32.240 No? I yes, okay. Based do you remember being arrested 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:33.559 and taking into Rockingham? 0:10:33.880 --> 0:10:37.760 Yes, yes, all right, based on what you do remember, 0:10:38.080 --> 0:10:40.280 do you think that everything you would have told the 0:10:40.280 --> 0:10:42.360 police in that interview would have been true? 0:10:42.559 --> 0:10:43.760 Yes, ma'am, all right. 0:10:44.040 --> 0:10:46.920 So there's nothing that you would want to change based 0:10:46.960 --> 0:10:48.840 on that interview with the police. 0:10:48.640 --> 0:10:51.199 Or a mend I can't really remember either of them, 0:10:51.400 --> 0:10:52.160 all right. 0:10:52.320 --> 0:10:54.600 And just the last interview that you did was on 0:10:54.800 --> 0:10:58.240 eighth of January twenty nineteen. Yes, Would everything that you 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.959 said to police on that occasion have been true? Yes, 0:11:01.200 --> 0:11:03.600 to the best of your memory. Is there anything that 0:11:03.640 --> 0:11:05.920 you would want to change based on what you said 0:11:05.960 --> 0:11:07.480 to the police on that day? 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:08.040 No. 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:11.960 Mss Tyler proceeds to the day of Amy's death. 0:11:12.280 --> 0:11:14.520 Can you picture that day in your mind? 0:11:14.720 --> 0:11:14.960 Yes? 0:11:15.160 --> 0:11:16.720 What do you remember about that day? 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.800 Me and my partner having an argument and just yes. 0:11:19.880 --> 0:11:24.440 Yes, all right. Now, my understanding, we've heard evidence from 0:11:24.559 --> 0:11:27.520 a lot of different witnesses in the course of this inquest, 0:11:27.559 --> 0:11:30.000 and we've read a lot of statements that were given 0:11:30.160 --> 0:11:34.000 very closely after Amy died. Based on that information, my 0:11:34.120 --> 0:11:37.439 understanding is that Gareth and Rachel came over and stayed 0:11:37.480 --> 0:11:41.080 at your house the night before, everyone watched a movie, 0:11:41.120 --> 0:11:43.600 and then the next morning Gareth got up and went 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:44.079 to work. 0:11:44.280 --> 0:11:47.080 Do you remember that vaguely? Yes? 0:11:47.240 --> 0:11:50.280 All right? On that day, twenty sixth of June, you 0:11:50.360 --> 0:11:52.480 had a plan to go out shopping with one of 0:11:52.520 --> 0:11:54.920 your friends, Josh Brydon. Is that right? 0:11:55.200 --> 0:11:55.640 I think so? 0:11:56.120 --> 0:11:56.400 Maybe? 0:11:56.559 --> 0:11:58.800 Yes? Cut a little bit of firewood to get by, 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:00.559 all right, Goosh. 0:12:00.320 --> 0:12:02.320 Has given evidence that he went out with you that 0:12:02.480 --> 0:12:05.120 morning to chop some wood. Yes, and while you guys 0:12:05.160 --> 0:12:08.520 were out chopping wood, you didn't have access to your phone, 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:12.520 so Josh was sending messages to Amy on your behalf. 0:12:12.600 --> 0:12:13.840 Do you remember that happening? 0:12:14.880 --> 0:12:18.920 I can very vaguely, but yes, yes. My phone was 0:12:18.960 --> 0:12:21.320 in Jaredale on the rubbish bin. I was staying there 0:12:21.320 --> 0:12:24.680 at night the night before. And remember that I left 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:25.920 it because I couldn't find. 0:12:25.760 --> 0:12:28.439 It where in Jaredale at Gareth's. 0:12:28.040 --> 0:12:31.840 House because we went up there the night before or yeah, 0:12:31.960 --> 0:12:34.120 it was it was the night before. We went up 0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.760 there to get something from his place. I can't remember 0:12:37.320 --> 0:12:41.199 what it was, movies or something, and then we went 0:12:41.240 --> 0:12:43.360 back to the house. I'd left the phone on the 0:12:43.440 --> 0:12:46.840 rubbish bin and a pissed down rain that night, so 0:12:47.480 --> 0:12:50.040 the next day I didn't have a phone. 0:12:50.520 --> 0:12:52.880 We know that all the evidence we heard from Josh 0:12:52.960 --> 0:12:55.240 and garethe is that you went back to You went 0:12:55.280 --> 0:12:58.200 to Gareth's house with Joshua at around three o'clock, which 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:01.160 is when Gareth would have finished work. You picked him up. 0:13:01.480 --> 0:13:02.840 Do you remember anything about that? 0:13:03.640 --> 0:13:04.320 No, no. 0:13:04.840 --> 0:13:07.320 Gareth gave some evidence that he jumped on the back 0:13:07.320 --> 0:13:09.800 of the ute and was drinking some beers from an eski, 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:12.319 and that he was passing beers through the windows of 0:13:12.360 --> 0:13:14.360 the car for you and Josh to drink as well 0:13:14.440 --> 0:13:16.880 as you went back to your house. Does that ring 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:17.719 any bells to you? 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:19.520 I can't remember. 0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:22.360 No, that's all right. Do you know if you were 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:23.240 drinking that day? 0:13:23.520 --> 0:13:26.240 I would usually have a couple, yes, but I'm not 0:13:26.280 --> 0:13:29.120 sure if I had any that day, I can't remember. 0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:31.560 I can't remember, that's all right. We know that at 0:13:31.640 --> 0:13:35.920 eleven forty six am, so just before lunchtime, Josh sent 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:39.319 Amy a message saying, Simo wants to know where you are. 0:13:40.160 --> 0:13:42.640 That would have been after you had done some wood 0:13:42.720 --> 0:13:45.960 chopping in the morning, but around lunchtime. So whether you 0:13:46.040 --> 0:13:48.600 might have gone home or we don't really know where 0:13:48.640 --> 0:13:51.040 you were at that time. Do you know why you 0:13:51.080 --> 0:13:53.200 would have been asking after Amy at that time? 0:13:53.600 --> 0:13:55.400 Maybe so I could stop in and have some lunch 0:13:55.520 --> 0:13:56.959 or something. I'm not sure. 0:13:57.080 --> 0:13:59.560 Okay, we know that Amy said she was on her 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.319 way home, and there was some conversation about going down 0:14:02.360 --> 0:14:04.760 to Gareth's house to pick up your phone. With Amy 0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:07.640 saying you know, does Simo want me to go down 0:14:07.640 --> 0:14:10.160 and pick up the phone, and asking Josh to get 0:14:10.200 --> 0:14:13.080 you to give her a call. Amy sent a message 0:14:13.160 --> 0:14:17.000 later on to say got his phone, and a message 0:14:17.080 --> 0:14:21.200 later saying where the fuck are you at twelve forty 0:14:21.200 --> 0:14:24.600 seven pm. Do you remember getting any of those messages? 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:29.960 I remember, No, I don't know, all right. 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:33.360 Do you remember there being any discussion that day between 0:14:33.400 --> 0:14:36.040 you and Josh about whether Amy was annoyed that you 0:14:36.080 --> 0:14:38.400 weren't home or whether there was anything else going on? 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:43.080 No? Okay, no, yes, Like I said, I remember the 0:14:43.120 --> 0:14:45.320 phone was up there. I remember saying to her that's 0:14:45.320 --> 0:14:48.200 where it could be, and then I can't remember her 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:49.520 telling me she went and got it. 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:53.760 Okay. There were some later messages from Amy to Josh's 0:14:53.840 --> 0:14:56.360 phone that start at two forty three pm that talk 0:14:56.440 --> 0:14:59.520 about the wood buyer coming around, and it sounds to 0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:03.800 me in reading those messages that Amy was pretty stressed 0:15:03.800 --> 0:15:06.080 about the fact the wood buyer might be coming over 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:09.520 and you weren't there, so she sent some messages saying 0:15:10.000 --> 0:15:12.840 does he know the woodbuyer is coming in fifteen minutes? 0:15:12.880 --> 0:15:15.600 Did he give the address to the wood buyer? And 0:15:15.720 --> 0:15:19.040 asking for a response. Do you remember Josh talking to 0:15:19.080 --> 0:15:20.560 you about anything about that? 0:15:21.320 --> 0:15:23.160 No, I don't know. 0:15:23.600 --> 0:15:26.040 Do you remember there being an arrangement for the wood 0:15:26.080 --> 0:15:27.200 buyer to come around? 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:27.800 No? 0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:29.000 All right. 0:15:29.320 --> 0:15:31.920 In the course of your relationship, we know you were 0:15:31.960 --> 0:15:34.920 together for nearly six years. If you didn't respond to 0:15:34.960 --> 0:15:37.720 Amy for a couple of hours on text message, how 0:15:37.720 --> 0:15:39.680 would she normally react? 0:15:39.960 --> 0:15:42.720 Well, I always had a phone, so I would usually 0:15:42.720 --> 0:15:43.360 message back. 0:15:43.520 --> 0:15:47.360 But she was pretty good, okay, So it wasn't really 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:50.600 something that came up before in your relationship, any tension 0:15:50.960 --> 0:15:52.480 if you didn't respond to her. 0:15:52.800 --> 0:15:54.640 No, carrying on like that? No? 0:15:54.920 --> 0:15:58.320 All right. Well, when you say carrying on like that, 0:15:58.600 --> 0:16:01.360 is that a reference to what happened later on or 0:16:01.560 --> 0:16:03.120 is there something else that happened? 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.680 No, that's the words you were using just before. 0:16:05.920 --> 0:16:11.040 Whether something wouldn't normally send repeated messages saying where are you? 0:16:11.520 --> 0:16:14.120 What the fuck is going on? Things like that? 0:16:14.640 --> 0:16:14.840 No? 0:16:15.160 --> 0:16:19.280 Alright, we know from Amy's Facebook messenger that at three 0:16:19.320 --> 0:16:22.960 point fifty one PM, which is very shortly before I 0:16:22.960 --> 0:16:25.800 think you and Josh and Gareth say you got him 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:29.400 Josh to send a message to Amy saying where are you? 0:16:30.040 --> 0:16:32.320 Do you know anything about that. Would that have been 0:16:32.400 --> 0:16:33.800 sent when you got home? 0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:35.600 Probably? I can't remember. 0:16:36.320 --> 0:16:39.320 Yes, all right, Well where would Amy? Where do you 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.760 think Amy was just before at that time? 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.240 In that time, she would have been picking the kids 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:48.160 up from school because they used to catch the bus. 0:16:48.920 --> 0:16:50.400 They used to catch the bus every day. 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:53.200 All right? What time would they normally get home? 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.640 A half past three quarter to four? 0:16:56.920 --> 0:16:59.560 Yes, and Amy would have to go down to the 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:01.360 bus to meet them. Is that right? 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:01.960 Yes? 0:17:02.400 --> 0:17:05.840 Yes, After that message that Josh sent to Amy saying 0:17:06.000 --> 0:17:08.840 where are you, Amy sent a message back at three 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:11.719 point fifty two pm, And it's the last message that 0:17:11.760 --> 0:17:16.359 we know that Amy sent, and that said gone crazy. 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:18.320 Do you remember Josh telling you that? 0:17:19.240 --> 0:17:19.520 No? 0:17:19.800 --> 0:17:21.960 Do you know what that is in reference to? 0:17:22.400 --> 0:17:22.520 No? 0:17:22.920 --> 0:17:25.679 Is it your understanding that Amy was unhappy with you 0:17:25.760 --> 0:17:26.240 that day? 0:17:26.520 --> 0:17:29.480 Well, it was clear when when she got home. 0:17:29.600 --> 0:17:32.600 Yes, you didn't realize before she got home that she 0:17:32.760 --> 0:17:33.879 was unhappy with you? 0:17:34.000 --> 0:17:39.200 No? No, she Yes, the way she went off that day, 0:17:39.720 --> 0:17:41.840 I'm not sure how to describe it, but I've never 0:17:41.880 --> 0:17:43.520 seen her go like that ever before. 0:17:43.600 --> 0:17:46.560 All right, so you're at home. Do you remember Amy 0:17:46.680 --> 0:17:47.920 and the kids getting home? 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:48.359 Yes? 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:52.520 Roughly, not real Well, what do you remember about that? 0:17:53.119 --> 0:17:55.760 I don't know. My memory is not real good from that. 0:17:55.760 --> 0:18:00.000 Day, that's okay. Do you remember if Amy seemed upset 0:18:00.359 --> 0:18:03.280 or stressed or if she was her normal self? How 0:18:03.320 --> 0:18:04.240 did she seem? 0:18:04.680 --> 0:18:08.440 She was on edge? For sure? And I suppose from yes, 0:18:08.560 --> 0:18:12.560 well she I can't remember how it all started or 0:18:12.600 --> 0:18:17.119 where the kids were exactly and everything, but just but 0:18:17.200 --> 0:18:20.040 she went and started going off. 0:18:20.000 --> 0:18:23.439 All right, And we know that your police interview, you 0:18:23.520 --> 0:18:26.480 said that she was shitty, she was angry, She was 0:18:26.560 --> 0:18:29.320 asking what you had been doing, things like that, and 0:18:29.359 --> 0:18:32.120 you said that she asked you why you didn't wait 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:34.840 for her or something, and you said that you went 0:18:34.920 --> 0:18:38.399 back out to cut some more logs. Yes, all right. 0:18:38.720 --> 0:18:42.399 Do you remember when your argument we the amysstarted? Do 0:18:42.440 --> 0:18:45.600 you remember where you were? Were you outside? Were you 0:18:45.960 --> 0:18:46.879 inside the house? 0:18:47.400 --> 0:18:51.560 I think it started outside. I'm not sure, but I 0:18:51.600 --> 0:18:54.399 remember telling her that I was going out somewhere, and 0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:57.040 she said, where have I been all day? Or something 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.040 like that, because she hadn't been able to get a 0:18:59.080 --> 0:19:01.360 hold of me on the phone, and she knew where 0:19:01.400 --> 0:19:04.439 the phone was. And then I said, well, I went 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.359 to Jaredale to pick it up, and she said, well, 0:19:07.560 --> 0:19:11.640 I already fucking did or something. And yeah, that's how 0:19:11.640 --> 0:19:12.840 it started, all right. 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:14.359 And what happened after that. 0:19:14.480 --> 0:19:17.960 Well, I've said I'm going back out quickly. I'll be 0:19:18.080 --> 0:19:20.600 back in an hour or something, because I seen a 0:19:20.600 --> 0:19:22.520 big wild pig out there when I was cutting wood, 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:24.919 and I never got told I wasn't allowed to go 0:19:24.960 --> 0:19:27.480 back out ever, Like if I seen a big boar 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:29.200 or something and I grabbed my dogs and went out 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:32.400 and got it, I would come back. And I asked 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:35.639 her to go with me, and she said, I don't know. 0:19:35.760 --> 0:19:38.200 She was just going off, going off, and I didn't 0:19:38.240 --> 0:19:41.080 know what to do because I haven't seen her go 0:19:41.119 --> 0:19:45.720 off like that. There was something majorly wrong, and obviously 0:19:46.000 --> 0:19:46.439 I should have. 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:49.080 Well, Gareth and Josh still there, do you remember when 0:19:49.119 --> 0:19:50.120 all this was happening? 0:19:50.280 --> 0:19:50.560 Yes? 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:52.800 Yes, do you know where they were? 0:19:53.119 --> 0:19:55.960 They were sitting in the kitchen, I think we all were. 0:19:56.760 --> 0:19:59.399 And then Amy tried to throw a mirror at me. 0:20:00.280 --> 0:20:03.520 Was the mirror in the hallway, pulled it straight off 0:20:03.560 --> 0:20:06.080 the wall, and tried to throw it at me, straight 0:20:06.119 --> 0:20:08.040 at me, yes, straight at my head. 0:20:08.119 --> 0:20:10.639 And when you say throw it at you, did she 0:20:10.760 --> 0:20:12.399 let go of itsh or what happened. 0:20:12.440 --> 0:20:14.240 Yes, it smashed all over the place. 0:20:14.840 --> 0:20:20.560 You'll note this is inconsistent with what Price and Brydon said. 0:20:21.119 --> 0:20:24.359 The mirror was still intact according to them, and was 0:20:24.400 --> 0:20:29.600 moved away by Price so it wouldn't get smashed. Simmons 0:20:29.640 --> 0:20:32.560 makes no mention of him and Amy heading to the 0:20:32.560 --> 0:20:37.720 bedroom to argue, like Brydon said in his statement to police. 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.679 Given that's in line with what Price said as well, 0:20:42.400 --> 0:20:46.639 it's more likely Brighton also witnessed the entire fight. 0:20:54.800 --> 0:20:56.480 It smashed, did it, yes? 0:20:56.600 --> 0:20:58.480 I think I've blocked it, hit it away from my. 0:20:58.600 --> 0:21:02.560 Arm and so bounced off your hand. Did this yes? 0:21:03.400 --> 0:21:07.200 Yes, well I yeah, hit me and then the wall 0:21:07.440 --> 0:21:08.240 and then smashed. 0:21:08.359 --> 0:21:10.400 What happened after she threw it at you? 0:21:10.680 --> 0:21:13.399