Speaker 1: This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We
Speaker 1: urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline on
Speaker 1: thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen or visit them at
Speaker 1: lifeline dot org dot au. A twenty four year old
Speaker 1: devoted mother of two fleeing a violent relationship as a
Speaker 1: bags packed car running her daughters strapped into the backseat.
Speaker 2: Mom told me that she needed to go back inside
Speaker 2: to grab something.
Speaker 1: Panic. I Amy is dead, Sir, I am his dead?
Speaker 1: Eight Confusion World, about five minutes.
Speaker 3: Say sit not to suicide one hundred percent. This is Emercy.
Speaker 1: What do you think is really the honest truth about Amy?
Speaker 4: The Truth about Amy?
Speaker 5: Mum Episode eight.
Speaker 1: I'm Liam Bartlett.
Speaker 5: And I'm Alison Sandy one two.
Speaker 6: I love her lots and she loves me and mummy.
Speaker 5: This is a home video just before Amy died, showing
Speaker 5: a very excited and enthusiastic Tay and her prep class,
Speaker 5: singing and doing actions again when she gets to the
Speaker 5: park and she loves.
Speaker 7: Me and she loves me.
Speaker 5: Tay points to Amy, who's feeling on her phone. M
Speaker 5: At the end, Amy cheers and claps louder than anyone else.
Speaker 3: One man name.
Speaker 1: When this was recorded, Amy and Tay's father, David Simmons,
Speaker 1: had been together almost six years. A lot had happened
Speaker 1: in that time, and their relationship was coming to a
Speaker 1: critical juncture. But before we get to that, here's what
Speaker 1: we know about David simmons life to this point. He
Speaker 1: was born twenty sixth of January nineteen eighty four to
Speaker 1: Robert Simmons and Evelyn Foggerty, so when Amy died he
Speaker 1: was thirty. He had one sister and two half sisters,
Speaker 1: all younger than he is. Simmons is one hundred and
Speaker 1: seventy six centimeters tall, brown hair and brown eyes, and
Speaker 1: when he was with Amy, looks to have weighed about
Speaker 1: ninety kiloats. According to police records, he's known as a
Speaker 1: prohibited drug user who may be carrying a weapon such
Speaker 1: as a knife or a club, and suffers depression. Simmons
Speaker 1: has a lengthy record dating back to about two thousand
Speaker 1: and four. It'd take too long to go through all
Speaker 1: of his criminal and traffic violations, but the worst of
Speaker 1: it includes assault, threats to injure, en danger and harm
Speaker 1: any person, and drug possession. He's been in a number
Speaker 1: of fights, usually while intoxicated is considered violent and dangerous, and,
Speaker 1: like Larry said, quite the handful question is could he
Speaker 1: have killed Amy. Here's what David Simmons told police in
Speaker 1: his statement the night Amy died.
Speaker 8: I am thirty years of age and live in Serpentine.
Speaker 8: I am currently self employed. On Thursday, the twenty sixth
Speaker 8: of June, at about four pm, I was at my
Speaker 8: home address two seven eighty three Southwest Highway, Serpentine. I
Speaker 8: was in company with my two friends, Josh Brydon and
Speaker 8: Gareth Price. It was at this time that my partner,
Speaker 8: Amy Lee Wensley, arrived home with my two children, who
Speaker 8: she had just picked up from school. Amy came into
Speaker 8: the house with the kids and asked me what I
Speaker 8: had been doing all day. I told her that I
Speaker 8: had been cutting wood with my friends and I was
Speaker 8: about to go and look for some more. This quickly
Speaker 8: escalated into an argument between us. During the argument, we
Speaker 8: were in the master bedroom, where Amy knocked over a
Speaker 8: large mirror towards me. I stopped it from falling to
Speaker 8: the ground. Amy began to hit me several times, and
Speaker 8: when I tried to grab her to stop her, she
Speaker 8: head butted my lip, causing it to split. I managed
Speaker 8: to restrain Amy on the floor of the bedroom, where
Speaker 8: I held her until she calmed down. I held her
Speaker 8: there for a couple of seconds. After I let her go,
Speaker 8: Amy went out to the shed at the northwest side
Speaker 8: of the house. She was with my daughter Naya. I
Speaker 8: was still in the house when Naa came back inside
Speaker 8: crying and screaming. I gave Nea a cuddle, and she
Speaker 8: told me that Amy had smashed a fish tank in
Speaker 8: the shed. I went out to the shed and began
Speaker 8: to clean up the glass that had been smashed on
Speaker 8: the floor. Amy had already left the shed when I
Speaker 8: got there. I was cleaning in the shed for about
Speaker 8: two minutes.
Speaker 1: According to evidence provided by Price and Brdon, they were
Speaker 1: cleaning up the lizard tag, not Simmons.
Speaker 8: When I came back into the house, Amy had begun
Speaker 8: to pack her bags. I asked her what she was doing,
Speaker 8: and she said that she was going to stay at
Speaker 8: her mum's house. I helped her pack some items and
Speaker 8: then took the kids to the car at the front
Speaker 8: of the property. After the kids were in the car,
Speaker 8: I went back to see if Amy wanted anything else
Speaker 8: and if I could help her. Amy said she needed
Speaker 8: to calm down a little bit before she drove to
Speaker 8: her mum's. I went and got another bag full of
Speaker 8: kids clothes and took it out to the car as well.
Speaker 8: Not long after, I was waiting for Amy and the
Speaker 8: kids by the car and I heard a thud. I
Speaker 8: went back inside the house, straight to the bedroom and knocked,
Speaker 8: calling out to Amy. There was no answer, so I
Speaker 8: opened the door slightly again. When Price tells it, she said,
Speaker 8: just a minute, I could see Amy's foot just inside
Speaker 8: the bedroom. The next thing I saw was Amy laying
Speaker 8: on the floor of the bedroom with a shotgun next
Speaker 8: to her.
Speaker 1: So Simmons says, here she was laying down with the
Speaker 1: gun next to her, while Price said she'd been sitting
Speaker 1: up with the gun on her lap.
Speaker 8: I could see the back of her skull was missing.
Speaker 8: I went back to the car and told Gareth about Amy.
Speaker 8: Gareth had been waiting for Amy with the kids and myself.
Speaker 8: Neither myself nor Gareth have working mobile phones, so we
Speaker 8: drove to the petrol station nearby to call the ambulance.
Speaker 8: I did not want the children to find out, so
Speaker 8: I dropped Gareth at the house then took the kids
Speaker 8: to Amy's parents house. When I got back from Amy's
Speaker 8: parents house in Pinjarra, the police had arrived. Where the
Speaker 8: front of my address is. I provided them this statement there.
Speaker 8: Both myself and Amy have a current firearms license. I
Speaker 8: own a twenty two and a three to eight rifle,
Speaker 8: as well as the four ten and a twelve gage shotgun.
Speaker 8: Amy owns a twenty two rifle. All these guns are
Speaker 8: stored unsecured in the wardrobe of the master bedroom. The
Speaker 8: ammunition is also stored in the wardrobe, but high up
Speaker 8: on a shelf. The shotgun I saw next to Amy
Speaker 8: was my four ten boito shotgun. It was facing towards her,
Speaker 8: down by her legs, about a meter away. I drew
Speaker 8: a sketch of the room where I found Amy for
Speaker 8: the police. The statement is true to the best of
Speaker 8: my knowledge and belief. I have made this statement knowing
Speaker 8: that if it is tendered in evidence, I will be
Speaker 8: guilty of a crime if I have wilfully included in
Speaker 8: the statement anything that I know to be false or
Speaker 8: that I do not believe is true.
Speaker 5: Like Gareth, there are other statements David made, once to
Speaker 5: major Crime and again the cold case but none of
Speaker 5: these are available. However, information from them are referred to
Speaker 5: at the inquest. Now, you may recall that David didn't
Speaker 5: turn up to the Coroner's Court the day he was
Speaker 5: scheduled to appear. Counsel assisting the family requested a bench warrant,
Speaker 5: but this wasn't supported by WA Police and Deputy State
Speaker 5: Coroner Sarah Linton did not proceed with one. He does
Speaker 5: turn up the following day, but at Armadale Court and
Speaker 5: is heard via videolink. Counsel assisting the Coroner, Sarah Tyler,
Speaker 5: begins the questioning.
Speaker 7: Could you state your full name for the court please, David,
Speaker 7: Robert Simmons and David just for the benefit of the court,
Speaker 7: for everyone in the court. You contacted the Coroner's Court
Speaker 7: yesterday to explain that you were feeling a bit overwhelmed
Speaker 7: with this process, which is why you didn't come yesterday.
Speaker 7: Is that right, Yes, ma'am. Yes, you're feeling okay today
Speaker 7: and you're willing to tell the coroner what you remember
Speaker 7: about Amy's death.
Speaker 8: Yes, I can, yes.
Speaker 7: All right now, I understand that you've already given statements
Speaker 7: to the police and you've participated in police interviews about
Speaker 7: Amy's death. The first statement that you gave was on
Speaker 7: the twenty sixth of June twenty fourteen, and the night
Speaker 7: that Amy died. It was a seven page long statement
Speaker 7: and you wrote that while you were waiting on the
Speaker 7: roadside at the property belonging to your father. Is that right?
Speaker 8: I can't remember exactly, but yes, I do remember talking.
Speaker 7: Sorry I just interrupted you. What did you say?
Speaker 8: I do remember talking to them? Yes, yes, when.
Speaker 7: You spoke to the police on that occasion, would you
Speaker 7: have told everything that you told them then to be
Speaker 7: the truth?
Speaker 8: Yes? I can't see why not.
Speaker 7: Okay, Well, you were then interviewed by the police that Saturday.
Speaker 7: So on twenty eighth of June twenty fourteen, you were
Speaker 7: taken to the police station under arrest and you participated
Speaker 7: in a recorded interview. Do you remember that not as well?
Speaker 8: No? I yes, okay. Based do you remember being arrested
Speaker 8: and taking into Rockingham?
Speaker 7: Yes, yes, all right, based on what you do remember,
Speaker 7: do you think that everything you would have told the
Speaker 7: police in that interview would have been true?
Speaker 8: Yes, ma'am, all right.
Speaker 7: So there's nothing that you would want to change based
Speaker 7: on that interview with the police.
Speaker 8: Or a mend I can't really remember either of them,
Speaker 8: all right.
Speaker 7: And just the last interview that you did was on
Speaker 7: eighth of January twenty nineteen. Yes, Would everything that you
Speaker 7: said to police on that occasion have been true? Yes,
Speaker 7: to the best of your memory. Is there anything that
Speaker 7: you would want to change based on what you said
Speaker 7: to the police on that day?
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 1: Mss Tyler proceeds to the day of Amy's death.
Speaker 7: Can you picture that day in your mind?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: What do you remember about that day?
Speaker 8: Me and my partner having an argument and just yes.
Speaker 7: Yes, all right. Now, my understanding, we've heard evidence from
Speaker 7: a lot of different witnesses in the course of this inquest,
Speaker 7: and we've read a lot of statements that were given
Speaker 7: very closely after Amy died. Based on that information, my
Speaker 7: understanding is that Gareth and Rachel came over and stayed
Speaker 7: at your house the night before, everyone watched a movie,
Speaker 7: and then the next morning Gareth got up and went
Speaker 7: to work.
Speaker 8: Do you remember that vaguely? Yes?
Speaker 7: All right? On that day, twenty sixth of June, you
Speaker 7: had a plan to go out shopping with one of
Speaker 7: your friends, Josh Brydon. Is that right?
Speaker 8: I think so?
Speaker 1: Maybe?
Speaker 8: Yes? Cut a little bit of firewood to get by,
Speaker 8: all right, Goosh.
Speaker 7: Has given evidence that he went out with you that
Speaker 7: morning to chop some wood. Yes, and while you guys
Speaker 7: were out chopping wood, you didn't have access to your phone,
Speaker 7: so Josh was sending messages to Amy on your behalf.
Speaker 7: Do you remember that happening?
Speaker 8: I can very vaguely, but yes, yes. My phone was
Speaker 8: in Jaredale on the rubbish bin. I was staying there
Speaker 8: at night the night before. And remember that I left
Speaker 8: it because I couldn't find.
Speaker 7: It where in Jaredale at Gareth's.
Speaker 8: House because we went up there the night before or yeah,
Speaker 8: it was it was the night before. We went up
Speaker 8: there to get something from his place. I can't remember
Speaker 8: what it was, movies or something, and then we went
Speaker 8: back to the house. I'd left the phone on the
Speaker 8: rubbish bin and a pissed down rain that night, so
Speaker 8: the next day I didn't have a phone.
Speaker 7: We know that all the evidence we heard from Josh
Speaker 7: and garethe is that you went back to You went
Speaker 7: to Gareth's house with Joshua at around three o'clock, which
Speaker 7: is when Gareth would have finished work. You picked him up.
Speaker 7: Do you remember anything about that?
Speaker 8: No, no.
Speaker 7: Gareth gave some evidence that he jumped on the back
Speaker 7: of the ute and was drinking some beers from an eski,
Speaker 7: and that he was passing beers through the windows of
Speaker 7: the car for you and Josh to drink as well
Speaker 7: as you went back to your house. Does that ring
Speaker 7: any bells to you?
Speaker 8: I can't remember.
Speaker 7: No, that's all right. Do you know if you were
Speaker 7: drinking that day?
Speaker 8: I would usually have a couple, yes, but I'm not
Speaker 8: sure if I had any that day, I can't remember.
Speaker 7: I can't remember, that's all right. We know that at
Speaker 7: eleven forty six am, so just before lunchtime, Josh sent
Speaker 7: Amy a message saying, Simo wants to know where you are.
Speaker 7: That would have been after you had done some wood
Speaker 7: chopping in the morning, but around lunchtime. So whether you
Speaker 7: might have gone home or we don't really know where
Speaker 7: you were at that time. Do you know why you
Speaker 7: would have been asking after Amy at that time?
Speaker 8: Maybe so I could stop in and have some lunch
Speaker 8: or something. I'm not sure.
Speaker 7: Okay, we know that Amy said she was on her
Speaker 7: way home, and there was some conversation about going down
Speaker 7: to Gareth's house to pick up your phone. With Amy
Speaker 7: saying you know, does Simo want me to go down
Speaker 7: and pick up the phone, and asking Josh to get
Speaker 7: you to give her a call. Amy sent a message
Speaker 7: later on to say got his phone, and a message
Speaker 7: later saying where the fuck are you at twelve forty
Speaker 7: seven pm. Do you remember getting any of those messages?
Speaker 8: I remember, No, I don't know, all right.
Speaker 7: Do you remember there being any discussion that day between
Speaker 7: you and Josh about whether Amy was annoyed that you
Speaker 7: weren't home or whether there was anything else going on?
Speaker 8: No? Okay, no, yes, Like I said, I remember the
Speaker 8: phone was up there. I remember saying to her that's
Speaker 8: where it could be, and then I can't remember her
Speaker 8: telling me she went and got it.
Speaker 7: Okay. There were some later messages from Amy to Josh's
Speaker 7: phone that start at two forty three pm that talk
Speaker 7: about the wood buyer coming around, and it sounds to
Speaker 7: me in reading those messages that Amy was pretty stressed
Speaker 7: about the fact the wood buyer might be coming over
Speaker 7: and you weren't there, so she sent some messages saying
Speaker 7: does he know the woodbuyer is coming in fifteen minutes?
Speaker 7: Did he give the address to the wood buyer? And
Speaker 7: asking for a response. Do you remember Josh talking to
Speaker 7: you about anything about that?
Speaker 8: No, I don't know.
Speaker 7: Do you remember there being an arrangement for the wood
Speaker 7: buyer to come around?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 9: All right.
Speaker 7: In the course of your relationship, we know you were
Speaker 7: together for nearly six years. If you didn't respond to
Speaker 7: Amy for a couple of hours on text message, how
Speaker 7: would she normally react?
Speaker 8: Well, I always had a phone, so I would usually
Speaker 8: message back.
Speaker 7: But she was pretty good, okay, So it wasn't really
Speaker 7: something that came up before in your relationship, any tension
Speaker 7: if you didn't respond to her.
Speaker 8: No, carrying on like that? No?
Speaker 7: All right. Well, when you say carrying on like that,
Speaker 7: is that a reference to what happened later on or
Speaker 7: is there something else that happened?
Speaker 8: No, that's the words you were using just before.
Speaker 7: Whether something wouldn't normally send repeated messages saying where are you?
Speaker 7: What the fuck is going on? Things like that?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: Alright, we know from Amy's Facebook messenger that at three
Speaker 7: point fifty one PM, which is very shortly before I
Speaker 7: think you and Josh and Gareth say you got him
Speaker 7: Josh to send a message to Amy saying where are you?
Speaker 7: Do you know anything about that. Would that have been
Speaker 7: sent when you got home?
Speaker 8: Probably? I can't remember.
Speaker 7: Yes, all right, Well where would Amy? Where do you
Speaker 7: think Amy was just before at that time?
Speaker 8: In that time, she would have been picking the kids
Speaker 8: up from school because they used to catch the bus.
Speaker 8: They used to catch the bus every day.
Speaker 7: All right? What time would they normally get home?
Speaker 8: A half past three quarter to four?
Speaker 7: Yes, and Amy would have to go down to the
Speaker 7: bus to meet them. Is that right?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: Yes, After that message that Josh sent to Amy saying
Speaker 7: where are you, Amy sent a message back at three
Speaker 7: point fifty two pm, And it's the last message that
Speaker 7: we know that Amy sent, and that said gone crazy.
Speaker 7: Do you remember Josh telling you that?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: Do you know what that is in reference to?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 7: Is it your understanding that Amy was unhappy with you
Speaker 7: that day?
Speaker 8: Well, it was clear when when she got home.
Speaker 7: Yes, you didn't realize before she got home that she
Speaker 7: was unhappy with you?
Speaker 8: No? No, she Yes, the way she went off that day,
Speaker 8: I'm not sure how to describe it, but I've never
Speaker 8: seen her go like that ever before.
Speaker 7: All right, so you're at home. Do you remember Amy
Speaker 7: and the kids getting home?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: Roughly, not real Well, what do you remember about that?
Speaker 8: I don't know. My memory is not real good from that.
Speaker 7: Day, that's okay. Do you remember if Amy seemed upset
Speaker 7: or stressed or if she was her normal self? How
Speaker 7: did she seem?
Speaker 8: She was on edge? For sure? And I suppose from yes,
Speaker 8: well she I can't remember how it all started or
Speaker 8: where the kids were exactly and everything, but just but
Speaker 8: she went and started going off.
Speaker 7: All right, And we know that your police interview, you
Speaker 7: said that she was shitty, she was angry, She was
Speaker 7: asking what you had been doing, things like that, and
Speaker 7: you said that she asked you why you didn't wait
Speaker 7: for her or something, and you said that you went
Speaker 7: back out to cut some more logs. Yes, all right.
Speaker 7: Do you remember when your argument we the amysstarted? Do
Speaker 7: you remember where you were? Were you outside? Were you
Speaker 7: inside the house?
Speaker 8: I think it started outside. I'm not sure, but I
Speaker 8: remember telling her that I was going out somewhere, and
Speaker 8: she said, where have I been all day? Or something
Speaker 8: like that, because she hadn't been able to get a
Speaker 8: hold of me on the phone, and she knew where
Speaker 8: the phone was. And then I said, well, I went
Speaker 8: to Jaredale to pick it up, and she said, well,
Speaker 8: I already fucking did or something. And yeah, that's how
Speaker 8: it started, all right.
Speaker 7: And what happened after that.
Speaker 8: Well, I've said I'm going back out quickly. I'll be
Speaker 8: back in an hour or something, because I seen a
Speaker 8: big wild pig out there when I was cutting wood,
Speaker 8: and I never got told I wasn't allowed to go
Speaker 8: back out ever, Like if I seen a big boar
Speaker 8: or something and I grabbed my dogs and went out
Speaker 8: and got it, I would come back. And I asked
Speaker 8: her to go with me, and she said, I don't know.
Speaker 8: She was just going off, going off, and I didn't
Speaker 8: know what to do because I haven't seen her go
Speaker 8: off like that. There was something majorly wrong, and obviously
Speaker 8: I should have.
Speaker 7: Well, Gareth and Josh still there, do you remember when
Speaker 7: all this was happening?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: Yes, do you know where they were?
Speaker 8: They were sitting in the kitchen, I think we all were.
Speaker 8: And then Amy tried to throw a mirror at me.
Speaker 8: Was the mirror in the hallway, pulled it straight off
Speaker 8: the wall, and tried to throw it at me, straight
Speaker 8: at me, yes, straight at my head.
Speaker 7: And when you say throw it at you, did she
Speaker 7: let go of itsh or what happened.
Speaker 8: Yes, it smashed all over the place.
Speaker 1: You'll note this is inconsistent with what Price and Brydon said.
Speaker 1: The mirror was still intact according to them, and was
Speaker 1: moved away by Price so it wouldn't get smashed. Simmons
Speaker 1: makes no mention of him and Amy heading to the
Speaker 1: bedroom to argue, like Brydon said in his statement to police.
Speaker 1: Given that's in line with what Price said as well,
Speaker 1: it's more likely Brighton also witnessed the entire fight.
Speaker 7: It smashed, did it, yes?
Speaker 8: I think I've blocked it, hit it away from my.
Speaker 7: Arm and so bounced off your hand. Did this yes?
Speaker 8: Yes, well I yeah, hit me and then the wall
Speaker 8: and then smashed.
Speaker 7: What happened after she threw it at you?
Speaker 8: I realized that it was I don't know. I just
Speaker 8: grabbed her and I asked her what was wrong? What
Speaker 8: the hell's going on? Why are you doing this?
Speaker 7: Okay? What did she say?
Speaker 8: She says, I'm leaving you. I'm leaving you? And I said, well,
Speaker 8: all right, I don't know. Whatever. I said, Well, you're
Speaker 8: not driving anywhere like this with the kids in the car.
Speaker 8: The kids can stay here the night and you can
Speaker 8: come back and see them tomorrow. What did she say,
Speaker 8: She said, no, I'm taking the kids. I said, well,
Speaker 8: go in the room, pack your stuff up or whatever,
Speaker 8: and I'll pack up the car and put the kids
Speaker 8: in there, and you can go when you calm down.
Speaker 7: Yes, And what did she say to that?
Speaker 8: She said, yes, all right. So she was in the
Speaker 8: room there for I don't know, maybe half an hour,
Speaker 8: twenty minutes. Yes, and yes, yes, that's when I heard
Speaker 8: a noise.
Speaker 1: Now, remember, Price said, Amy went back and forth from
Speaker 1: the car about four times.
Speaker 8: And I was outside with the kids in the car.
Speaker 1: Naya recalls at the time she saw Simmons go back
Speaker 1: in the house. Miss Tyler returns to the argument they
Speaker 1: had prior.
Speaker 7: We've heard from Gareth and Josh about what they saw
Speaker 7: In terms of this fight between you and Amy. Gareth
Speaker 7: gave evidence in his interviews that there was a bit
Speaker 7: more of a physical part to the altercation between you
Speaker 7: and Amy. He made reference to Amy punching you. Do
Speaker 7: you remember that happening?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: He said that you had Amy in a headlock at
Speaker 7: one stage. Do you remember that I had to hold her? Yes, restrainer,
Speaker 7: but yes, it wasn't a headlock. I just had a hands.
Speaker 7: I can't remember, but it wasn't a headlock. I just
Speaker 7: like held her close and tried to stop her from
Speaker 7: carrying on bear hug action. How would you describe it?
Speaker 8: Well, I was in the hallway and she was on
Speaker 8: the floor, and I held her hands and just put
Speaker 8: on my weight on top of her and I just
Speaker 8: held her there.
Speaker 7: Gareth said that you grabbed or choked or something and
Speaker 7: then you went to the floor. Did you choke Amy
Speaker 7: in the course of this fight?
Speaker 8: I can't remember.
Speaker 7: Do you think you would have?
Speaker 8: I don't know. It was pretty pretty violent what she
Speaker 8: tried to do.
Speaker 7: We know that. Well, we've heard evidence from a forensic
Speaker 7: pathologist at this inquest who said Amy had bruises to
Speaker 7: her wrists. Do you think she she got those bruises
Speaker 7: from you holding her down? Yes, she also had some
Speaker 7: other bruises scattered across her body. Some of the bruises
Speaker 7: were fresh, some weren't tested to see whether they were fresh.
Speaker 7: Do you think Amy could have gotten bruises on other
Speaker 7: parts of her body in this fight with you?
Speaker 8: Well, she could have gotten bruises anyway. She was on motorbikes,
Speaker 8: playing with horses and lived on a farm.
Speaker 1: Notice there are no questions about Amy possibly having sustained
Speaker 1: those bruises in other altercations with him.
Speaker 7: In terms of going down to the floor and restraining
Speaker 7: her there. How did you end up on the floor,
Speaker 7: do you remember?
Speaker 8: I can't remember exactly. No, all right?
Speaker 7: And you said the fight effectively ended and Amy calmed down?
Speaker 7: Is that right?
Speaker 8: Yes, she went into the room and she was pretty angry.
Speaker 7: We've heard evidence from some of Amy's friends in the
Speaker 7: course of this inquest, and I think one of them
Speaker 7: is a person that you know from when you first
Speaker 7: started your relationship with Amy, miss Selsa. Miss Selsa asked
Speaker 7: about her view of your relationship with Amy and things
Speaker 7: that she observed, and miss Selsa expressed real surprise at
Speaker 7: the suggestion that you would be the one calming an
Speaker 7: argument down. Her understanding of you is that you would
Speaker 7: be very unlikely to react calmly if Amy was ever
Speaker 7: violent to you. Would you agree with that?
Speaker 8: No, I've never later had and on Amy in my life.
Speaker 1: Now, if Simmons is to be believed here, it begs
Speaker 1: the question why would Natasha Selsa make that up. He
Speaker 1: then goes on to say how Amy was the violent one,
Speaker 1: even recalling an incident where she once hog tied him.
Speaker 8: And I've been hit. I've been hit by her multiple times.
Speaker 8: And a couple of weeks before that, I got home
Speaker 8: from pig hunting. We were supposed to go to a
Speaker 8: kid's birthday party. I'd come home and I was buggered,
Speaker 8: and I went to sleep. I said, give me a
Speaker 8: couple of hours sleep and I'll get up and we'll go.
Speaker 8: And I woke up and my hands taped together behind
Speaker 8: my back, and my feet taped together, my mouth tape shut,
Speaker 8: and I was in bed and she was just laughing
Speaker 8: at me.
Speaker 2: When was this?
Speaker 8: This was about two weeks before well, I can't remember
Speaker 8: exactly before she killed herself.
Speaker 7: Did Amy untie you?
Speaker 8: Yes? Eventually?
Speaker 7: What did she say about that? Why did that happen?
Speaker 8: She said, we were supposed to go to this kid's
Speaker 8: birthday party. Blah blah blah blah. That's what you get
Speaker 8: for coming home and not doing what you said you
Speaker 8: were going to do.
Speaker 1: There is no one else who can verify this actually happened.
Speaker 1: We can only rely upon simmons word. Mss Tyler then
Speaker 1: asks about the incident Natasha witnessed of Simmons bending Amy's
Speaker 1: back over a table and grabbing her by the throat
Speaker 1: when she was nine months pregnant.
Speaker 8: No, not possible. Not possible, because we by the time
Speaker 8: Amy was three months pregnant, and we decide we're going
Speaker 8: to have it. Within two weeks, I had my own
Speaker 8: house and it furnished. No one lived with us at all.
Speaker 7: I've misunderstood. I'm sorry. Apparently miss Selsa was visiting Amy.
Speaker 8: No, I don't remember that.
Speaker 7: Are there any incidents in your relationship with Amy where
Speaker 7: you were the aggressor where you were violent towards her?
Speaker 8: Yes, I can remember one time that I was violent
Speaker 8: to her, but I didn't physical hurt her. I just
Speaker 8: restrained her again and just said, look, if you're going
Speaker 8: to keep carrying on like that, you're best off leaving
Speaker 8: instead of trying to make me upset.
Speaker 7: Okay, we know that Amy sent a message to Aaron Claybrook,
Speaker 7: who's another friend of hers, saying that she had an
Speaker 7: argument with you about your drinking and that she punched you.
Speaker 7: And after she punched you, you grabbed her, and she
Speaker 7: said the words chucked her around the room. Do you
Speaker 7: remember an argument like that?
Speaker 1: No, Missus Tyler is referring to Erin Gower, who has
Speaker 1: since married.
Speaker 7: Did Amy ever leave you?
Speaker 8: Well, I suppose if she was upset, I had to
Speaker 8: go because she had the house, had the kids, so
Speaker 8: I was only really No, she never but this that
Speaker 8: day she said she was leaving me. Yes, she done it.
Speaker 7: How did you react to that information? Were you worried
Speaker 7: about her about losing the kids?
Speaker 8: Well, of course, but she'd flown off the handle a
Speaker 8: few times before, so I just sort of thought she
Speaker 8: was just going to go and calm down and come back.
Speaker 8: And but this time she never.
Speaker 7: We know that. Very shortly before Amy died, Nancy called
Speaker 7: her and she spoke to her mom and she told
Speaker 7: her mom that she had had a big fight with you,
Speaker 7: that she had thrown a beer bottle at you and
Speaker 7: that and she had punched you, and she said that
Speaker 7: you then wrestled her to the ground and there had
Speaker 7: been a fight between you.
Speaker 8: Yes.
Speaker 7: Do you remember Amy throwing a beer bottle at you?
Speaker 8: I can't remember the beer bottle. No, I've never seen
Speaker 8: her go like that before, ever, like that angry.
Speaker 7: Were you yelling at her?
Speaker 8: Yes? I did yell at her.
Speaker 1: Yes, Now you might recall, Brydon said, Simo never yelled
Speaker 1: instead asking Amy calmly, have I ever hurt you? Have
Speaker 1: I ever hit you, with Amy replying.
Speaker 2: No, you have hurt me.
Speaker 4: You have never hit me.
Speaker 8: I said, there's no need to smash the fucking house up,
Speaker 8: and if you're going to leave, calm down and piss off.
Speaker 8: I said, yes, well like yes, it was not my house.
Speaker 8: I had to pay rent. Then you know, if she's
Speaker 8: going to smash the house up, she's going to I
Speaker 8: don't know.
Speaker 7: We just we heard from your dad that he let
Speaker 7: you stay there rent free.
Speaker 8: Well, I don't know, I can't remember. Yes.
Speaker 1: Miss Tyler asks if he's embarrassed about having the fight
Speaker 1: in front of Brydon and Price, to which Simmons replies yes.
Speaker 1: He's then asked if he tried to go into the
Speaker 1: main bedroom at any point.
Speaker 8: Yes. I knocked on the door about three or four times,
Speaker 8: asking if she was all right. She just just kept
Speaker 8: saying no, not yet, not ready.
Speaker 7: All right. Do you remember there being any problems with
Speaker 7: the door handle of that bedroom.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 2: One.
Speaker 7: Unusual thing that was noticed in the cold Case homicide
Speaker 7: review in twenty nineteen, I think is that the outside
Speaker 7: door handle in the hallway to the bedroom is attached,
Speaker 7: but inside, the door handle was missing, and we know
Speaker 7: that after Amy died and professional cleaners entered the room,
Speaker 7: that door handle was reattached. Do you know anything about
Speaker 7: that missing door handle?
Speaker 1: Not?
Speaker 8: In my I can't recall.
Speaker 7: No, you don't remember there being any ever problems with
Speaker 7: the door handle.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: Here he discusses the lizard tank incident.
Speaker 8: When I told her she wasn't driving anywhere, I think
Speaker 8: she walked out to the shed, went through the shed,
Speaker 8: flipped the well through, the bloody lizard tank smashed all
Speaker 8: over the floor.
Speaker 7: Did you see her do that?
Speaker 8: No, but I heard it.
Speaker 7: Do you remember anyone else telling you that?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: Do you remember the kids saying anything about the smashed
Speaker 7: lizard tank? No, So she Amy went out to the
Speaker 7: shed and smashed the lizard tank before she went back
Speaker 7: to the bedroom.
Speaker 8: Yes, I think so. Yes.
Speaker 7: One of the big concerns I think for the family
Speaker 7: is that Amy's clothes were packed in the car, as
Speaker 7: were Tay's birthday presents and belongings for the children, and
Speaker 7: the family find it really difficult to reconcile that Amy
Speaker 7: had packed up clothes ready to go with the kids
Speaker 7: in the car and then decided to go into the
Speaker 7: bedroom and commit suicide. Can you shed any light on
Speaker 7: why the car might have been packed up with her
Speaker 7: belongings like she was leaving.
Speaker 8: I just told you I packed it all in there
Speaker 8: for her. She was telling me what to put in there,
Speaker 8: and she didn't come out of the room.
Speaker 7: So Amy didn't do any trips out to the car
Speaker 7: to load stuff up.
Speaker 8: No, okay, well I can't remember. She might have.
Speaker 1: We moved to the part where the kids are in
Speaker 1: the car and Simmons and Price are with them.
Speaker 7: Was there any reason you put music on just so the.
Speaker 8: Kids weren't sitting there just without any music on? I
Speaker 8: don't know.
Speaker 7: Were you doing anything else outside the car?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: You know that?
Speaker 7: Nao was interviewed by police, Yes, and said that while
Speaker 7: you were at the car, she saw you use the
Speaker 7: twenty two shot gun to shoot at a tree. Do
Speaker 7: you remember anything about that?
Speaker 8: Yes? Yes, yeah, I did have the twenty two out.
Speaker 7: Yes, where was that? Where did you get it from?
Speaker 8: It was my rifle. I shot it. The parrots used
Speaker 8: to eat my olives off the olive tree, so I
Speaker 8: was trying to thin the parrots out.
Speaker 7: Did you go into the house to get your gun?
Speaker 8: No, it was in the it was in the gun
Speaker 8: safe in the shed.
Speaker 7: In the shed, right, Yes, So you went into the
Speaker 7: shed to get the gun.
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: And what did you do with the gun after you
Speaker 7: had shot at the parrots?
Speaker 8: Can't remember where it was where I put it.
Speaker 7: Did you take the gun into the bedroom at.
Speaker 8: Any point, No, not that I can remember. No.
Speaker 7: Did you go into the bedroom at any point before
Speaker 7: you heard the sound?
Speaker 8: Not that I can remember.
Speaker 1: So that's it. Simmons says he can't remember going back
Speaker 1: into the room or taking the gun into the bedroom.
Speaker 7: What can you tell me about the sound that made you?
Speaker 7: Where were you when you heard this sound that we've
Speaker 7: referred to.
Speaker 8: I was standing on the driver's side of the commodore
Speaker 8: and I heard this. It was a thud and I
Speaker 8: just ran. I ran into the bedroom. I knocked on
Speaker 8: the door, no answer, and that's when I opened the
Speaker 8: door and the door hit her leg and that's just
Speaker 8: the life come out of me. And I just couldn't
Speaker 8: believe what had happened. I ran outside bawling my eyes out.
Speaker 7: Yellen, why was anyone else around?
Speaker 8: Then Gareth came around the corner, asking what's going on?
Speaker 8: And I said, she shot herself don't go in there.
Speaker 8: Don't go in there.
Speaker 1: Remember. In Price's testimony, he recalls Simo asking is she alive? But,
Speaker 1: as one of the detectives pointed out, the discrepancies show
Speaker 1: an original line of thought, and rather than explain the
Speaker 1: ongoing inconsistencies, Simmons is asked again about where they were
Speaker 1: when they heard the thud.
Speaker 7: Again, So can you take me through that a bit
Speaker 7: more slowly? And I know it's not pleasant to talk about.
Speaker 7: You were at the commodore, Yes, were you talking to
Speaker 7: the kids?
Speaker 8: I remember hearing the noise and running inside and opening
Speaker 8: the door.
Speaker 7: Yes, where was garis.
Speaker 8: Standing at the boot? We were just putting stuff in.
Speaker 1: Again. In Price's testimony, he says Amy didn't want his
Speaker 1: help when he asked. All he recalls doing is holding
Speaker 1: the door open for her.
Speaker 7: Can you describe the noise for me?
Speaker 8: Just a thud, A loud thud.
Speaker 7: You're familiar with guns. Did it sound like a gunshot
Speaker 7: to you?
Speaker 8: It sounded close.
Speaker 1: It sounded close. Well, it's always been a thud, not
Speaker 1: a blast or even a crack. Simmons is again asked
Speaker 1: to clarify the thud as a gunshot.
Speaker 7: When you say you ran inside. Did you run at
Speaker 7: speed or did you walk? How fast were you moving?
Speaker 8: I ran as quick as I could.
Speaker 7: Is that because you knew it was a gunshot and
Speaker 7: sounded like a gunshot to you?
Speaker 8: I suppose yes, it was just yes.
Speaker 7: I know it's hard to think back on exactly what
Speaker 7: you were thinking at that point, but that's what I'm asking.
Speaker 7: Do you know what you were thinking when you heard
Speaker 7: that noise?
Speaker 8: Yes? I thought it was a gunshot.
Speaker 1: Simmons says he was in the door first and doesn't
Speaker 1: know where Gareth was at this time. He says he
Speaker 1: ran around to the back door, through the hallway to
Speaker 1: the room.
Speaker 7: Okay, And when you get to the hallway, you're at
Speaker 7: the room. Do you remember whether the door is open
Speaker 7: or closed?
Speaker 8: Closed?
Speaker 7: And you've gone to the door handle and pushed it open?
Speaker 7: Is that right?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: Did you push it open gently? Did you push it
Speaker 7: open forcefully? Do you remember?
Speaker 8: Yes? I pushed it open slowly, slowly.
Speaker 7: Did you go straight in or did you poke your
Speaker 7: head around the corner.
Speaker 8: I just looked around the corner. I didn't go in.
Speaker 8: I shut the door all right.
Speaker 7: When you looked around the corner, you've said the door
Speaker 7: hit Amy's leg. Do you remember which part of her
Speaker 7: leg it hit?
Speaker 8: Yeah, like a knee area about there somewhere, I think.
Speaker 7: And you've pointed to your left knee or her right knee.
Speaker 7: He left her left knee. Yes, we have photographs that
Speaker 7: were taken by the responding police. I don't want it,
Speaker 7: so I'm not going to show them to you, but
Speaker 7: they show her body in a particular position. And one
Speaker 7: of the main concerns at this inquest is that the
Speaker 7: position that Amy's body ended up in seems inconsistent with
Speaker 7: her pulling the trigger herself. One of the major issues
Speaker 7: is that her right hand was underneath her buttock or figh.
Speaker 7: Do you remember noticing anything about the position of her
Speaker 7: hands when you entered the room?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: Are you certain that the door hit Amy's left leg?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 7: Was Amy facing towards the door or away from the
Speaker 7: door when you entered the room towards the door? Was
Speaker 7: she leaning against the wall?
Speaker 8: I think so to the right. Yes, I come in
Speaker 8: the door. She was sitting the same angle as I'm
Speaker 8: on and I think she was leaning like that.
Speaker 7: Like facing you if you come through the door.
Speaker 8: I can't I can't remember, I can't remember.
Speaker 7: No, do you remember seeing the gun, Yes, where was
Speaker 7: it in between her legs? And I ask about the
Speaker 7: gun because again, the position that the gun ended up in,
Speaker 7: based on the descriptions given by Garrett and potentially yourself,
Speaker 7: isn't necessarily consistent with where the gun would land if
Speaker 7: she had pulled the trigger herself. So it's important if
Speaker 7: you can to give us as much information as possible
Speaker 7: about where the gun actually was when you saw her,
Speaker 7: given that you were the first person in the room afterwards.
Speaker 7: Is there any more detail that you can give than
Speaker 7: that I.
Speaker 8: Can't remember exactly.
Speaker 7: No, And just so you're clear, we obviously have had
Speaker 7: the chance to read your interviews with the police as well,
Speaker 7: and when you gave your description of where the gun
Speaker 7: was in those interviews, you said it was either across
Speaker 7: her legs, or between her legs, or to the side.
Speaker 7: So it seems that you weren't terribly clear when you
Speaker 7: spoke to the police about where the gun was. Is
Speaker 7: that's still consistent with your memory? You're not sure.
Speaker 8: Vaguely, I thought it was in the middle and across
Speaker 8: one leg, but I can't I can't say because I
Speaker 8: can't remember exactly right.
Speaker 7: Do you know how long you would have been in
Speaker 7: the room or looking in the room looking at Amy.
Speaker 8: A couple of seconds.
Speaker 1: Now, the fact that David had three different versions of
Speaker 1: where the gun was upon finding Amy's body should be
Speaker 1: enough to count his testimony as unreliable. But as we
Speaker 1: mentioned before, these discrepancies were just put down to trauma
Speaker 1: and or alcohol consumption, which seems to be the same
Speaker 1: excuse for why he didn't remember his dad was home.
Speaker 7: Okay, so did you think about going to your dad's Yes?
Speaker 1: I did.
Speaker 8: Yes, And the.
Speaker 7: Reason you didn't go up to your dad's is because
Speaker 7: you didn't know if he was at home or not. Yes,
Speaker 7: all right, so there has been a decision to go
Speaker 7: to the roadhouse.
Speaker 8: Yes.
Speaker 7: Do you remember Naya asking any questions about the bins
Speaker 7: or any comments being made about the No? No, did
Speaker 7: you drop anything off in the bins on the way
Speaker 7: in or out of the property?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Later, he's asked about drinking on the night Amy died.
Speaker 7: Do you think you were drunk the night that Amy
Speaker 7: died at any point before she died?
Speaker 8: I can't remember. I don't think so.
Speaker 7: Had you taken any drugs that day?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: Do you remember being taken to the police station having
Speaker 7: some forensic procedures after Amy died. The police took your
Speaker 7: clothes and did some things like that. Yes, did they
Speaker 7: ask you what you were wearing when Amy died?
Speaker 8: They probably would have. I can't remember.
Speaker 7: When you were interviewed in twenty nineteen, the police asks
Speaker 7: you if you knew why you were being interviewed, and
Speaker 7: you said to them it's because you's didn't do your
Speaker 7: job properly. Is that your perception of this?
Speaker 8: Most probably?
Speaker 1: Yes?
Speaker 7: What's your understanding if police had done in your words,
Speaker 7: what do you think they would have found?
Speaker 8: Well, it wouldn't have to carry on like this for
Speaker 8: many years and make me, you know, try not to.
Speaker 8: How can I move on until the shit disordered? You know,
Speaker 8: it's their fault, really, it's not mine. I haven't done
Speaker 8: nothing wrong.
Speaker 7: Just to be clear, you weren't in the room when
Speaker 7: the gunshot was fired that ended Amy's life.
Speaker 8: No, I was not in the room.
Speaker 7: And when you spoke to police, is everything you said truthful?
Speaker 8: Yes?
Speaker 1: Miss Tyler refers to a message Amy sent to Simmons
Speaker 1: on the twenty fifth of June twenty fourteen. The night
Speaker 1: before she died. Amy had gone to the cinema with
Speaker 1: Rachel that night to watch twenty two Jump Street.
Speaker 7: I want this to work this time, and I mean it.
Speaker 7: I know I've said it so many times, but this
Speaker 7: time it's going to be my aim to my girl
Speaker 7: and my girls.
Speaker 6: I want my family to stay together. I mean that.
Speaker 6: I'm going to give it my all to make it work.
Speaker 6: But it's all just words like you say. So it's
Speaker 6: up to you, babe. I'm over being a no hoper
Speaker 6: and I need change to save me and what I love,
Speaker 6: which is my little family. I just want to be happy.
Speaker 6: So we'll stand by you with whatever decision you make.
Speaker 6: Love you, my friend's going to die any second. Love
Speaker 6: you night.
Speaker 7: Did you ever get that message?
Speaker 8: Not that I can remember.
Speaker 1: No, that message was sent the night Gareth and Rachel
Speaker 1: were staying over. Well, David says he can't remember it.
Speaker 1: He certainly doesn't seem surprised by its contents.
Speaker 7: What's she talking about when she says she's over being
Speaker 7: a no hoper? What is she wanting to change?
Speaker 8: Well, it definitely wasn't me to change, you know. I
Speaker 8: don't everything too for that family, for them. I don't
Speaker 8: know whether she was on drugs or not. That's why
Speaker 8: I wanted to know if there was any illicit drugs
Speaker 8: in her system.
Speaker 7: We've done forensic testing. There were no illicit drugs in
Speaker 7: her system when she died.
Speaker 8: Yes, what about my medication?
Speaker 7: There was anti depression medication in her systems SI talipram
Speaker 7: because she was prescribed to her. Yes, why do you
Speaker 7: ask that? What are your concerns about that?
Speaker 8: A couple of days before I checked my tablets and
Speaker 8: I was low on them. I said to her, look,
Speaker 8: I need to go get my script done. I don't
Speaker 8: remember that it ran out that quick. And she said
Speaker 8: she'd been taken them.
Speaker 7: Taking your medication. Yes, I've asked you a lot of
Speaker 7: questions today. Is there anything else that you know about
Speaker 7: Amy's death that you think could assist the coroner to
Speaker 7: make the findings that she has to make.
Speaker 8: I don't think I can help her. I don't know.
Speaker 8: I just want it to be over.
Speaker 7: Thank you, mister Simmons. I have no further questions.
Speaker 1: Deputy State Coroner Sarah Linton then says this.
Speaker 10: Mister Simmons, I'm the coroner. Just before I pass you
Speaker 10: over to some lawyers. There's lawyers for the family, lawyers
Speaker 10: for the police, who might ask you some questions. I
Speaker 10: just wanted to ask you one thing, Miss Tyler, hasn't
Speaker 10: necessarily covered in full for my benefit. You keep saying
Speaker 10: was Amy on drugs? And we've clarified that she didn't
Speaker 10: have any drugs in her system? Were you using drugs
Speaker 10: around the time yourself illicit drugs?
Speaker 8: I don't think so.
Speaker 9: No.
Speaker 10: Gareth has given some evidence that the two of you
Speaker 10: did take drugs together.
Speaker 8: Yes, but not at that specific time.
Speaker 10: So you used illicit drugs prior to Amy's death with Gareth, yes, yes, right,
Speaker 10: and he says you hadn't taken drugs that day or
Speaker 10: he certainly hadn't and he didn't recall doing it with you.
Speaker 10: Had you taken any drugs that day?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 10: No, all right, but you say you had a beer
Speaker 10: or two. Yes, but you don't recall being intoxicated on
Speaker 10: the day.
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 10: When the police picked you up the next night to
Speaker 10: take you in for interviewing, had you been drinking then, yes,
Speaker 10: you had to kind of sober up before you could
Speaker 10: be interviewed. Do you remember that.
Speaker 8: Yes? Yes.
Speaker 5: For those of you who listened to the inquest into
Speaker 5: the disappearance of Marion Barter from the Lady Vanish's podcast.
Speaker 5: You'll notice how differently David Simmons was treated in this
Speaker 5: inquest compared to Rick Blum. The manner and approach of
Speaker 5: counsel assisting Adam Casselton and New South Wales Coroner Teresa
Speaker 5: O'Sullivan was sorely missed in Amy's inquest. Like the detectives
Speaker 5: at the start of this case, Deputy State Coroner Sarah
Speaker 5: Linton seems to be in a hurry at one stage,
Speaker 5: reprimanding council assisting the family Peter Ward for taking too
Speaker 5: much time pursuing a line of questioning designed to show
Speaker 5: the lack of credibility of Josh Brydon, saying this wasn't
Speaker 5: the right jurisdiction for that. Yes, it's not a criminal trial,
Speaker 5: but surely the responsibility of an inquest is to still
Speaker 5: realize the truth, also asking leading questions. By this, I
Speaker 5: mean providing Simmons the answers in her questions.
Speaker 1: Ol I totally agree David Simmons is being treated as
Speaker 1: a victim. This inquest was supposed to explore three possibilities
Speaker 1: that led to her death suicide, accident or homicide. Accept
Speaker 1: it seems they were only focused on suicide for example,
Speaker 1: the last message Amy sent to David, I want this
Speaker 1: to work this time, and I mean it. They honed
Speaker 1: straight in on the line about her no longer wanting
Speaker 1: to be a no hoper, not the line where she's
Speaker 1: basically giving him an ultimatum. It's up to you. What
Speaker 1: she's saying here is he has to step up, and
Speaker 1: if he doesn't, she's out of there. Obviously she's hoping
Speaker 1: he will. But in that conversation to her mum just
Speaker 1: before she died, when she's recovered from Simmons letting her
Speaker 1: down and violently assaulting her yet again, there's a steely
Speaker 1: determination that she's ready to move forward with her plan
Speaker 1: for a new life without him.
Speaker 6: I just want to be happy.
Speaker 1: It's very clear that this time she's leaving for good.
Speaker 5: Well available evidence backs that up. Yes, they always argued
Speaker 5: over his excessive drinking, but David said to Amy was
Speaker 5: going off more than usual. She was going off because
Speaker 5: of the message she sent in the night before. It
Speaker 5: wasn't about the wood buyer or the lack of communication.
Speaker 5: They were provocations, but the real issue was that Amy
Speaker 5: knew he had chosen his drinking and other bad habits
Speaker 5: over her and their fan Emily he didn't love her
Speaker 5: enough to change, and she had been young enough to
Speaker 5: think he could change. There are varying descriptions of what
Speaker 5: Amy did to provoke David, including throwing a beer bottle
Speaker 5: and mirror at him, as well as head butting him
Speaker 5: in the mouth, causing his lip to split. David initially
Speaker 5: denies the split lip, but later says he did respond
Speaker 5: to Amy being pretty violent by grabbing her wrists and
Speaker 5: forcing her to the ground. In his evidence, Gareth describes
Speaker 5: it as a headlock and says he sort of choked
Speaker 5: her and it's not the first time people claimed to
Speaker 5: see him being violent towards Amy. Natasha says she saw
Speaker 5: it happen too, when Amy was nine months pregnant, and
Speaker 5: Erin was sent to photo of bruises around her neck
Speaker 5: from when it happened another time. This is how their
Speaker 5: heated discussion went, according to what David says at the inquest.
Speaker 8: What's wrong? What the hell is going on? Why are
Speaker 8: you doing this?
Speaker 6: I'm leaving you.
Speaker 8: I'm leaving you well, all right, whatever, Well, you're not
Speaker 8: driving anywhere like this with the kids in the car.
Speaker 8: The kids can stay here the night and you can
Speaker 8: come back and see him tomorrow.
Speaker 4: No, I'm taking the kids.
Speaker 8: Well, go in the room, pack your stuff up or whatever,
Speaker 8: and I'll pack the car up and put the kids
Speaker 8: in there and you can go and calm down.
Speaker 4: Yes, all right.
Speaker 1: So, at some stage during their fight, Simmons says, Amy
Speaker 1: flips the lizard tank in the shed in response to
Speaker 1: him telling her she wasn't driving anywhere. Price says he
Speaker 1: sees Amy leaving the shed and entering the house with
Speaker 1: Simmo trailing behind, who says something to her.
Speaker 8: Like fuck off to your mother's.
Speaker 1: Then, while Amy's packing, Simmons says he speaks to Amy
Speaker 1: through the bedroom door, asking her to calm down before driving,
Speaker 1: before returning to the car where Price and the children are.
Speaker 1: So he was in that house alone with her. The
Speaker 1: Deputy State Coroner even acknowledges it in her findings.
Speaker 10: Gareth did give evidence that David shot a parrot with
Speaker 10: a twenty two rifle, which was later found in the bedroom,
Speaker 10: and he conceded David may have put it away there,
Speaker 10: but Gareth was clear in his evidence that David was
Speaker 10: near him outside at the time he heard the thud,
Speaker 10: and then followed David to the house and opened the
Speaker 10: door for him to enter.
Speaker 1: Now, there seems to be a bit of confusion over
Speaker 1: this because in at least one of the police statements
Speaker 1: it has Simmons' twenty two rifle being found in the
Speaker 1: back of his ute. However, in the coroner's findings, four
Speaker 1: of five firearms and ammunition were seized from the bedroom
Speaker 1: Amy was founding, excluding a Magnum crossbow recovered from the shed.
Speaker 1: There's specific mention of a high powered rifle located in
Speaker 1: the mirrored wardrobe. That high powered rifle is Simmons three
Speaker 1: to eight rifle bolt repeater fire five RUGA, which according
Speaker 1: to police documents, is the only one fitted with a
Speaker 1: telescopic sight. And that's the gun Naa describes she saw
Speaker 1: Simmons return to the room with. Now, Naya was very specific,
Speaker 1: she says, it was, and I'm quoting from documents here,
Speaker 1: black with a scope he can see through. She told
Speaker 1: the specialist child interviewer just a couple of days after
Speaker 1: her mum's death that it was really loud.
Speaker 4: Did daddy shoot at it one time or lots of times?
Speaker 3: Six?
Speaker 4: So he shot at it all right? Said that daddy
Speaker 4: put it away in the mirror cupboard and How did
Speaker 4: you see Daddy put it away in the mirror cupboard?
Speaker 3: Because I saw the window.
Speaker 4: Okay, tell me what could you see through the window?
Speaker 6: Dad?
Speaker 4: Okay? What could you see Dad doing.
Speaker 3: Putting the gun away in the mirror cupboard?
Speaker 4: And what else could you see?
Speaker 3: Nothing else? Just mum okay, trying to go to sleep.
Speaker 4: You could see Mom trying to go to sleep.
Speaker 3: What was she doing trying to go to sleep?
Speaker 4: Okay? What do you mean like she was trying.
Speaker 3: To go to sleep in her bed? When Tad wakes
Speaker 3: are up? She can drive us.
Speaker 1: Now, just a REMINDERR on this. Maya's evidence is inadmissible
Speaker 1: because she was only six years old at the time.
Speaker 1: But if what she says is true, Simmons did go
Speaker 1: back into the room, which makes sense because the firearm
Speaker 1: that Naa describes was found in the wardrobe. Now going
Speaker 1: back to this thud, of which the assumption has always
Speaker 1: been that it was the sound of Amy shooting herself
Speaker 1: with a four to ten. Now, for starters, it's a
Speaker 1: sound that only Simmons and Price here, so we only
Speaker 1: have their word it ever happened, And even if it
Speaker 1: did occur, there are plenty of things that could make
Speaker 1: a thud. Surely a fourteen going off would sound more
Speaker 1: like a blast or a crack than a thud. You'll
Speaker 1: hear what the shooting of a four ten buoyito shotgun
Speaker 1: sounds like in an upcoming episode, and that'll give you
Speaker 1: the chance to make up your own mind. Then, of
Speaker 1: course there's the crime scene experts who both rule out suicide,
Speaker 1: saying the evidence is highly consistent with her being shot.
Speaker 1: So there's the puzzle. How is the testimony of Simmons,
Speaker 1: both father and son, Price and Brighton even given more
Speaker 1: weight than the independent, unbiased experts.
Speaker 5: The only person who does treat David Simmons as a
Speaker 5: suspect during the proceedings is counsel assisting the family, Peter Ward.
Speaker 5: Here he questions David Simmons about the rubbish bins, specifically
Speaker 5: asking if police searched them that.
Speaker 8: Night, wouldn't have a clue.
Speaker 2: Now, you saw Gareth go out and put something in
Speaker 2: the bins? Do you remember that?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 2: Can you remember Gareth walking down the driveway to put
Speaker 2: stuff in the bins?
Speaker 8: I don't think so. I can't remember well when.
Speaker 2: Miss Tyler first asked you about that. You seem to
Speaker 2: have a bit of a smirk on your face, as
Speaker 2: if you were thinking something about the bins?
Speaker 8: Was is there any right the right of the bloody
Speaker 8: driveway right at the gate? That's I thought, and Nea
Speaker 8: asked when they mentioned na, it made me feel good.
Speaker 2: What So it wasn't because there was something put in
Speaker 2: those bins that you were glad the police didn't find.
Speaker 8: No, I don't know what you're on about.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: I want to ask you a couple of more questions
Speaker 2: about the incident Natasha Selsa described. So, that was the
Speaker 2: night before Tay was born. You came home and you
Speaker 2: had been drinking and you had a couple of tokes
Speaker 2: of iyes. Do you remember that?
Speaker 8: Where was where was Amy in that? At the hospital,
Speaker 8: at the unit in Kelmscott the night before Tay was born. Yes,
Speaker 8: we were in the hospital for two days, nearly she
Speaker 8: was in labor, in and out of labor.
Speaker 2: Did you take her to the hospital.
Speaker 8: I don't know. I can't remember. We had the cars impounded,
Speaker 8: so someone had to take us, so we walked.
Speaker 2: She walked to hospital, nine months pregnant and in labor.
Speaker 8: Yes.
Speaker 2: Isn't it the case that Natasha Celsa took her to
Speaker 2: the hospital.
Speaker 8: I don't know. I can't remember.
Speaker 2: Because you were still out of it, asleep from the
Speaker 2: night before. Pardon you were still out of it from
Speaker 2: the night before, weren't you.
Speaker 8: Well, if you're telling me this story, why are you
Speaker 8: asking all these questions?
Speaker 10: Just answer the questions the best that you can, recall,
Speaker 10: mister Simmons, and it'll go a lot quicker.
Speaker 8: Not that I remember.
Speaker 2: No, that night when you got home and you had
Speaker 2: an argument with Amy, you grabbed her around the throw, didn't.
Speaker 8: You, No, sir, I can't remember.
Speaker 5: At this point, David Simmons gets agitated and says he
Speaker 5: should have brought a lawyer. This prompts a Deputy State
Speaker 5: Coronet to say.
Speaker 10: You do have a right to say you don't want
Speaker 10: to answer questions on the grounds you might incriminate yourself.
Speaker 10: You haven't done this so far. I have the accounts
Speaker 10: you've given, and the account you've given today is consistent
Speaker 10: with that with the police, and that you had a
Speaker 10: right to have a lawyer and not give to talk
Speaker 10: to the police. Is that right back in the day, yes,
Speaker 10: all right, and even today if there's a question that
Speaker 10: you think might incriminate you, you've got the right to
Speaker 10: say that so far, everything you've said doesn't really point
Speaker 10: in that direction. But of course you have the right
Speaker 10: to say that, and we can have a discussion about it.
Speaker 7: If it gets to there.
Speaker 10: But the questions mister Ward's asking you, now, I wouldn't
Speaker 10: think would necessarily incriminate you in a particular way. But
Speaker 10: you've always got that at the back of your mind,
Speaker 10: and mister Ward's just going to keep asking questions in
Speaker 10: a reasonable way. If you don't understand them, just let
Speaker 10: him know. He will explain it and we'll all be
Speaker 10: able to keep on going. And you know, once we
Speaker 10: get through this, you'll be able to finish your evidence
Speaker 10: and go okay.
Speaker 2: So just yes, you told police you'd never hit Amy.
Speaker 2: That's not true, is it.
Speaker 8: I've never hit Amy. No.
Speaker 5: Mister Ward changes tack and instead asks about the car
Speaker 5: accident where he was driving and Amy sustained serious injuries
Speaker 5: and was forced to wear a halo.
Speaker 2: So she had the brace on for a few months.
Speaker 2: Even after she got it off, she had a soft
Speaker 2: brace on her neck for a while, didn't she, Yes,
Speaker 2: she got pain in it for How long did that
Speaker 2: last for quite a while, yes, pretty much. So even
Speaker 2: up to her death, she was still sometimes having problems
Speaker 2: with her neck.
Speaker 8: Yes, I think so. Well, it just wasn't comfortable, you know,
Speaker 8: she just wasn't comfortable with it.
Speaker 2: Did it affect how she could move her head?
Speaker 8: Yes. After she had the accident, she used to move
Speaker 8: a lot more like that than moving her neck.
Speaker 5: David Simmons is indicating moving from the waist up because
Speaker 5: Amy was unable to move just her neck, which is
Speaker 5: what she would have had to have done had she
Speaker 5: shot herself in the right temple. According to the trajectory,
Speaker 5: blood spatter and the gunshot wound.
Speaker 8: She used to move with the top half of her.
Speaker 2: Chest, so her neck was pretty stiff. It was the
Speaker 2: whole shoulders in everything moving.
Speaker 8: Yes.
Speaker 5: Peter Ward outlines to David the chain of events leading
Speaker 5: to Amy's debth and what he thinks could have occurred.
Speaker 2: You went back into the house. The kids are sitting
Speaker 2: in the cart, Gareth is outside or he's in the
Speaker 2: garage picking up the reptile tank. Yes, you've gone back in.
Speaker 2: You've gone to the bedroom door. You've tried to talk
Speaker 2: to Amy through the door. You're with me so far. Yes, okay.
Speaker 2: Now what you told please then, is that you're trying
Speaker 2: to open the door and that she physically blocked it.
Speaker 2: Was that true?
Speaker 8: I can't remember.
Speaker 2: But you told police that two days after this happened.
Speaker 2: Do you think you might have been telling the truth there?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 8: I can't remember exactly now, so whatever I said then
Speaker 8: would have been close. Yes, right.
Speaker 2: You told police that you thought she had put her
Speaker 2: foot behind the door to block it. Do you remember that?
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 2: I'm going to tell you what I think happened from
Speaker 2: that point, and I want you to tell me what
Speaker 2: your response to that is. You didn't like her pushing
Speaker 2: that door shut as you were trying to open it.
Speaker 2: You then pushed your way into the room and Amy
Speaker 2: was stuck behind the door. She was hiding behind the door.
Speaker 2: Did that happen?
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 2: After you entered the room, you picked up the buoyte rifle.
Speaker 2: You were arguing with her, and you pointed the rifle
Speaker 2: at her. Did that happen?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: She was hiding behind the door and you held the
Speaker 2: gun against her head. Did that happen? No? Amy tried
Speaker 2: to fend it off. She grabbed hold of the barrel
Speaker 2: with her left hand. Did that happen?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: And the gun went off and you just dropped the
Speaker 2: gun in her lap. Did that happened?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: She was sitting on the ground and you were holding
Speaker 2: the gun and I'm just going to demonstrate you were
Speaker 2: holding the gun down by your side in your right hand.
Speaker 2: Did that happen No? And the gun went off and
Speaker 2: you just dropped the gun in her lap. Did that happen?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: And then you ran outside and that was when Gareth
Speaker 2: saw you, saying oh fuck, oh fuck, oh fuck. Do
Speaker 2: you remember running out and saying that?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: You and Gareth then decided to tell people that she
Speaker 2: shot herself. Isn't that right?
Speaker 8: No.
Speaker 2: Gareth has given some evidence that you said the words
Speaker 2: why would she do that? Do you remember saying those words?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 2: I suggest to you you did say that, but you
Speaker 2: weren't referring to her shooting herself. You were referring to
Speaker 2: her locking you out and making you angry again.
Speaker 7: I don't know what you're trying to get at, but
Speaker 7: you're wrong.
Speaker 2: You were also referring to her being gutless after that.
Speaker 2: You weren't referring to her shooting herself. You were referring
Speaker 2: to her cowering behind the door.
Speaker 8: Weren't she I'm not sure where you're trying to go
Speaker 8: with this, mate, But you're way off track.
Speaker 2: Do you deny that you were holding the gun when
Speaker 2: Amy suffered the shotgun wound?
Speaker 8: Can you ask that again?
Speaker 2: You deny that you were holding the gun when Amy
Speaker 2: suffered the shotgun wounds?
Speaker 8: I was not holding the gun. No, I was outside
Speaker 8: when I heard the noise, and when I went inside
Speaker 8: she was dead.
Speaker 6: See.
Speaker 2: I said at the outset of these questions that I
Speaker 2: thought that almost everything you said about what happened on
Speaker 2: that day was true. I want to suggest this to you.
Speaker 2: Everything you said about what happened on that day was true,
Speaker 2: except for those questions we've just gone through about you
Speaker 2: pushing your way into the room, picking up the gun
Speaker 2: and holding it against her head when it went off
Speaker 2: because you were upset that she had shut the door
Speaker 2: when you tried to open it. Isn't that the case? No,
Speaker 2: So one of the reasons why the police believed you
Speaker 2: is because you were telling the truth almost about everything.
Speaker 2: There's only one thing that you and Gareth had to
Speaker 2: change that day in your stories, which was that you
Speaker 2: had to say that you were outside with him when
Speaker 2: the noise occurred, so therefore she must have shot herself.
Speaker 10: Well, I don't know if he can answer why police
Speaker 10: believed him. It's a matter for mission.
Speaker 8: Really, You've got to look at the evidence, don't you, mate,
Speaker 8: and all the other stuff. What you're trying to tell
Speaker 8: me is something that didn't happen. So I'm not lying
Speaker 8: and I'm not holding anything back. I know I've lost
Speaker 8: the best person in my whole life, and now I
Speaker 8: have to live with it and listen to people like
Speaker 8: you and whoever is trying to blame me for it
Speaker 8: because they can't have closure on themselves because they don't
Speaker 8: realize that, well, look in their own garden. It has
Speaker 8: nothing to do with them, either did it or me?
Speaker 8: Whose fault was it? The upbringing she had was it?
Speaker 8: Was it that she didn't want to go to our mums,
Speaker 8: that she didn't have anywhere to go. I offered the money,
Speaker 8: I gave her every opportunity she ever wanted, that girl,
Speaker 8: And then you're trying to say to me that I
Speaker 8: tried to get in the door and got upset. Mate.
Speaker 8: I've tried to move on with my life for the
Speaker 8: last six seven years and I have to put up
Speaker 8: with this. I don't get to see my kids. I
Speaker 8: didn't even get to go to the funeral. Now, I
Speaker 8: don't know how I'm supposed to answer your questions when
Speaker 8: you're trying to blame me for something I never done.
Speaker 10: Mister Ward, do you have any more questions?
Speaker 2: I have no further questions Your honor.
Speaker 5: Her honor then checks with counsel assisting WA police, who
Speaker 5: astonishingly or perhaps not, indicates there are no questions for
Speaker 5: David Simmons.
Speaker 10: All right, Thank you very much, David. I've heard what
Speaker 10: you've had to say. I'm the coroner, so I'm the
Speaker 10: one listening to your evidence and all the other evidence
Speaker 10: and bearing that in mind. Just to go back then,
Speaker 10: my understanding of what you're telling me is that you
Speaker 10: and Gareth had nothing to do with Amy being shot
Speaker 10: in the head that day. Is that right?
Speaker 8: That's right?
Speaker 10: And you were both standing outside the car and you
Speaker 10: heard a sound and you went into the house and
Speaker 10: found Amy behind the door with the shotgun injury. Is
Speaker 10: that right?
Speaker 1: Yes, that's correct, And that's pretty much it. There are
Speaker 1: just a few minor clarifications of information that has already
Speaker 1: been provided before, some housekeeping on what happens next, and
Speaker 1: a big thank you to David Simmons for turning up
Speaker 1: and then it's over.
Speaker 3: I love Loss and she loves me and mummy.
Speaker 5: And there's still more to go through in relation to
Speaker 5: what David Simmons has to say compared to other witnesses
Speaker 5: and experts, which will continue with in the next episode.
Speaker 5: In the meantime, we managed to catch up with him
Speaker 5: recently outside Perth Magistrate's Court, where he's facing four new
Speaker 5: char after allegedly assaulting a police officer. You'll recall he's
Speaker 5: already served nine months for assaulting Larry Blandford. When David
Speaker 5: first sees Liam and the TV crew, he gives him
Speaker 5: the finger. Simmons tries to enter, but the security guard
Speaker 5: won't let him in yet.
Speaker 1: Hey you go, mate, Liam, I just want to have
Speaker 1: a chat. Are you David's lawyer? No?
Speaker 9: No, no, Oh, just a friend Okay. We wanted to
Speaker 9: see if we canna have a chat with you. What
Speaker 9: it means about Amy?
Speaker 1: Everybody?
Speaker 2: No?
Speaker 1: Why is that? It's my life not yours? It's her
Speaker 1: life as well. Yeah, well we'll not telling him.
Speaker 9: Really, what have you got to hide?
Speaker 1: Are you trying to hide something? Are you hoping that
Speaker 1: it gets resolved or are you happy with the way
Speaker 1: it is? We're not talking you're fucking death. No, I'm
Speaker 1: not deaf. Well then I said, I don't want to
Speaker 1: talk to here. I like it and I don't want
Speaker 1: to talk here. Well, it was her life as well, David,
Speaker 1: what if you all got to do with you? Well,
Speaker 1: I'd like to find the truth in the interests of
Speaker 1: her family. Sorry, David. Well, it's not as easy as that,
Speaker 1: is it? Eight years? What does it matter? What does
Speaker 1: it matter? What do you mean?
Speaker 9: What does it matter? Come on, you don't want to
Speaker 9: talk about it at all. That's pretty pathetic, isn't it.
Speaker 5: I attended the court session with David Simmons, where I
Speaker 5: learned the older lady with him is named Debbie, who
Speaker 5: used to work as an aboriginal liaison at the Attorney
Speaker 5: General's Department. Simmons mother, Evelyn, is Aboriginal. Despite arriving there
Speaker 5: before anyone else, his matter is one of the last
Speaker 5: to be heard before lunch. During the proceedings, he pleads
Speaker 5: not guilty to assault a public officer and obstructing public officers,
Speaker 5: but guilty to breach a bail undertaking and disorderly behavior
Speaker 5: in public. The matter is adjourned for hearing at the
Speaker 5: end of October. We share a lift down to the
Speaker 5: ground floor, where Simmons is jubilant.
Speaker 8: That's good, he.
Speaker 5: Says, in relation to the case being adjourned for three months.
Speaker 5: While out, he says to Debbie, referring to jail by
Speaker 5: that he means he'll be a while out of prison now,
Speaker 5: as his case is adjourned until October. He now makes
Speaker 5: mention of the camera crew waiting for him outside court.
Speaker 8: Just got to deal with the fuck wits at the
Speaker 8: front door.
Speaker 5: Remember he's already served nine months in jail for assaulting
Speaker 5: Larry Blamford, who was still working for Wa Police at
Speaker 5: the time. Then he looks at me and says early
Speaker 5: knockoff and grins. I reply that I still have a
Speaker 5: lot to do. When Simmons exits at court, he's ready
Speaker 5: for Liam David, as is Debbie.
Speaker 1: How'd you go? She's us. Could you talk to us
Speaker 1: just a little bit please about Amy? No, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: don't provoke David. Don't I'm not provoking. You are face.
Speaker 1: I'm not in his face, David. Can you tell us
Speaker 1: where the gun was when you found Amy?
Speaker 5: Demie grabs his arm and pulls him away.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us what the position of the gun
Speaker 1: was Could you excuse us?
Speaker 5: At this point, Liam is only walking beside Debbie and
Speaker 5: David is on her other side.
Speaker 1: Can you tell us how you got out of that bedroom? David?
Speaker 1: Why won't you talk to us about it? David? Do
Speaker 1: you think any of your friends will use that million
Speaker 1: dollar reward? Do you think they have other information? Are
Speaker 1: you his mother?
Speaker 2: Yep?
Speaker 5: She isn't, though, as mentioned, David's real mum is called Evelyn.
Speaker 1: Would you like this soft or when you're out of
Speaker 1: his face? I'm not in his face. I'm just asking
Speaker 1: questions very respectfully.
Speaker 5: Again, this is true. Liam is still walking beside Debbie
Speaker 5: and David is on her other side.
Speaker 1: Talk to stop, well, David, won't you just you have
Speaker 1: no desire to work this out at all.
Speaker 2: You have nothing to get better to do.
Speaker 1: Than find the truth if you wouldn't be if the
Speaker 1: police did their job properly? Excuse us us? Why do
Speaker 1: you say that? Why do you say that? David?
Speaker 5: Debbie makes a flicking motion like she's throwing out some rubbish.
Speaker 1: David, Why God, do you think you think the police
Speaker 1: will let you down? Do you well? Is that what
Speaker 1: you think?
Speaker 5: David just stands there with his hands on his hips,
Speaker 5: eyes straight ahead. He's not looking at Liam, He's not
Speaker 5: looking at anything at all. He looks as though he's
Speaker 5: contemplating something. Then he turns, opens the passenger door and
Speaker 5: gets him.
Speaker 1: Surely you want to get to the bottom of this.
Speaker 5: Debbie is still there next to him, closing his door.
Speaker 5: She looks relieved and then waves her hand as if
Speaker 5: to dismiss Liam.
Speaker 1: Well, surely you do too, for his sake, don't you, David.
Speaker 1: Wouldn't you think it's worthwhile to work us out. Next episode,
Speaker 1: we hear from Amy's former boss, who saw Amy the
Speaker 1: night before she died.
Speaker 11: It was just absolute shock to be told that she'd
Speaker 11: committed suicide. I mean, no one talks about their plans
Speaker 11: for the rest of the week and the next day
Speaker 11: to then go and do that.
Speaker 1: And what Amy's daughters told the coroner at the inquest.
Speaker 3: So he waited in the car for a month and
Speaker 3: she never came back out of the house. So, Liser
Speaker 3: your c.
Speaker 11: So deretion.
Speaker 3: We both know the nasty un Jill mek.
Speaker 1: Hunt, if you knew Amy and have information, any information
Speaker 1: about her death, we'd love to hear from you. Just
Speaker 1: email us at the truth about Amy at seven dot
Speaker 1: com dot a U that's s E V e N
Speaker 1: The Truth about Amy at seven dot com dot au,
Speaker 1: or visit our website sevenews dot com dot au forward
Speaker 1: slash the Truth about Amy. You can also send us
Speaker 1: an anonymous tip at www dot the Truth about Amy
Speaker 1: dot com. If you're on Facebook or Instagram, you can
Speaker 1: follow us to see photos and updates relevant to the case,
Speaker 1: but for legal reasons, unfortunately, you won't be able to
Speaker 1: make any comments. And remember, if you like what you're hearing,
Speaker 1: don't forget to subscribe. Please rate and review our series
Speaker 1: because it really helps new listeners to find us. Presenter
Speaker 1: and executive producer Alison Sandy, Presenter and investigative journalist Liam Bartlett,
Speaker 1: Sound design Mark Wright, Assistant producer Cassie Woodward, Graphics Jason Blanford,
Speaker 1: and special thanks to Tim Clark and Brian Seymour. This
Speaker 1: is a seven News production.