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Speaker 1: Put on your dance and shift.

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Speaker 2: Don't give me your best shot.

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Speaker 1: He is the deputy editor of the Daily Oz. Emma Gillespie,

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Speaker 1: Good morning, and what a morning it is, What a

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Speaker 1: beautiful morning. Enjoying the smells in here. The fumes are

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Speaker 1: little light headed. Actually, maybe like a match we can

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Speaker 1: dispel someone. I think I think this is done well.

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Speaker 2: Let's take some of the heat off Jones here where

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Speaker 2: you to talk about Bradley Cooper. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: you've seen this controversy, but he's been caught up over

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Speaker 2: this prosthetic nose that he's wearing in an upcoming film

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Speaker 2: called Maestro. Now. In this movie, he plays renowned composer

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Speaker 2: Leonard Bernstein, who's the son of Jewish Ukrainian immigrants to

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Speaker 2: the US, and he was best known for writing the

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Speaker 2: music for West Side Story, Amazing musical, and Bradley Cooper

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Speaker 2: directed it, he co wrote it, he stars in it.

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Speaker 2: And Leonard Bernstein was a Jewish man. Bradley Cooper is

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Speaker 2: not Jewish, and so when the trailer dropped on August fifteen,

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Speaker 2: we saw that they had decided to use a prosthetic nose,

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Speaker 2: and then this controversy kind of ensued where it was

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Speaker 2: described as an example of jew face. So we had

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Speaker 2: the Hollywood reporter calling it problematic, describing the film as

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Speaker 2: ethnic cosplay. Another actor said that if he needed to

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Speaker 2: wear a prosthetic nose, which is, to that person, the

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Speaker 2: equivalent of blackface or yellow face, that if he can't

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Speaker 2: play the role through the power of acting alone, then

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Speaker 2: don't cast him. Get a Jewish actor.

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Speaker 1: But you know with Nicole Kidman wore a prosthetic nose

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Speaker 1: to play Virginia Wolf. That's right, And I know that

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Speaker 1: this has more cultural implications than that this is seen

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Speaker 1: as as a stereotype. Yeah, exactly. So it's sort of this.

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Speaker 2: Idea that putting this big nose on a non Jewish

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Speaker 2: person to make them look Jewish is playing into this

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Speaker 2: caricature of a racist stereotype of Jewish people.

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Speaker 1: But the film would say, we've put a prosthetic nose

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Speaker 1: on him to make him look like the person he was.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I think an important distinction here. I've got

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Speaker 2: two good friends who are Jewish and we were chatting

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Speaker 2: about it, and they said to me, if this was

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Speaker 2: a fictional film and this was a non Jewish actor,

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Speaker 2: that they put this prosthetic on to make them look

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Speaker 2: Jewish to the rest of us, that that would be uncomfortable.

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Speaker 2: But because Leonard Bernstein's family have given this the or clear,

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Speaker 2: they say they were involved in the process with Bradley Cooper,

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Speaker 2: that if this is to make Bradley Cooper look more

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Speaker 2: realistically like a real person, someone who lived, to be

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Speaker 2: more convincing in a film about their life, that that's

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Speaker 2: sort of a different lens to kind of look at

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Speaker 2: it through.

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Speaker 1: It's hard, isn't it. And then you have the case

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Speaker 1: also of Hugh Grant, who in the New incarnation of

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Speaker 1: Willy Wonka plays an on Polumpa, and the criticism there

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Speaker 1: is that that job could have been given to someone

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Speaker 1: of short stature.

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Speaker 2: Well, this is really interesting, and I think kind of

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Speaker 2: quite different to the prosthetic because we've got Leonard Bernstein's

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Speaker 2: family who came out and said, you know, it broke

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Speaker 2: their heart to see this controversy, ensuing that they feel

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Speaker 2: so fortunate to have worked with Bradley and they're all

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Speaker 2: good with it. And then you've got the umpe lumpa thing,

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Speaker 2: and we've sort of heard a lot over the last

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Speaker 2: few years. You can't be what you can't see. And

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Speaker 2: when you've got a minority being represented in film or TV,

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Speaker 2: you know, should those opportunities be given to those minority groups?

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Speaker 2: You know how many opportunities are there for actors with

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Speaker 2: dwarfism in big films? And then you've got you Grant,

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Speaker 2: you know, the king of the rom com he could

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Speaker 2: do whatever he.

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Speaker 1: Wants, He's had a great career.

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Speaker 2: Should he be portrayed as an actor with Dwarfism?

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Speaker 1: But then I've heard someone else saying that Peter Dinklitch,

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Speaker 1: who's a very famous actor who has Dwarfism, is he

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Speaker 1: would probably get that role? And what about all the

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Speaker 1: other dwarf actors that don't get a looking because there's

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Speaker 1: one famous on what about me?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's definitely as a slippery slope and no one

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Speaker 2: really quite knows the aca.

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Speaker 1: Someone knows where to put themselves with it. What about

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Speaker 1: that wonderful performance by Daniel day Lewis in the film

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Speaker 1: My Left Foot where he played the writer, the poet,

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Speaker 1: the artist Christy Brown who had cerebral palsy. Daniel d Lewis,

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Speaker 1: I think one an oscar for that oscar. And you

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Speaker 1: think of gay actors playing straight straight actors playing gay,

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Speaker 1: which the role of an act that's what actors do. Well.

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Speaker 2: I know Eddie Redmain, who was in The Danish Girl,

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Speaker 2: played a trans woman and I think one an Oscar

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Speaker 2: for that and he has since come out and said

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Speaker 2: he regrets playing that role, that he wishes it had

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Speaker 2: gone to a transactor. I think you just have to

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Speaker 2: look at the privilege balance here and if there are

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Speaker 2: not only so many roles for so many actors in

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Speaker 2: that belong to minorities, you know, against a Hugh Grant

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Speaker 2: or a Bradley Cooper who can perhaps you know, put

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Speaker 2: their hand up and transform for any role, how fair

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Speaker 2: is that?

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Speaker 1: But can I say from a financial point of view,

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Speaker 1: would that film have been made with an would Eddie

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Speaker 1: Redmain's film have been made with an unknown actor? Well? Exactly?

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Speaker 2: Then there's that whole Is it going to be successful

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Speaker 2: if we don't attribute the big name to it? And

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Speaker 2: as soon as a strap on the prosthesis you win

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Speaker 2: an Oscar, That's what happens, exactly as soon as you

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Speaker 2: do that. There was a similar controversy with Killian Murphy

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Speaker 2: in Oppenheimer, you know, the Christopher Nolan blockbuster film Robert

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Speaker 2: Oppenheimer was a Jewish Man. Killian Murphy not a jewish Man,

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Speaker 2: and there were some articles at the time calling it

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Speaker 2: jewish erasier so.

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Speaker 1: Meaning what that it should have been played by Jewish actor?

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Speaker 1: Where do we draw the lot?

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Speaker 2: Think in art, that's the whole point of art, isn't

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Speaker 2: it that you know you're you're being someone you're not

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Speaker 2: acting as you know, pretend.

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Speaker 1: It's all about Wow, Emma, Emma, thank you, You're great.

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Speaker 1: Check her out of the Daily Eyes