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Speaker 1: Three six online at Mix one O four nine dot com.

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Speaker 2: It is just on nineteen minutes after eleven o'clock. Now

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Speaker 2: we know that thirty one principles are needed by the

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Speaker 2: start of the next school year, and there are currently

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Speaker 2: sixteen positions vacant, eleven of which are also teaching roles.

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Speaker 2: From what we can gather, another fifteen principles are expected

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Speaker 2: to resign before the end of the year.

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Speaker 1: Now joining us on the line to talk a little

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Speaker 1: bit more.

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Speaker 2: About this, but also talk about the announcement that the

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Speaker 2: government had made today or yesterday, I should say around

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Speaker 2: that attendance strategy is Jarvis Ryan, who is the head

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Speaker 2: of the Northern Territories Education Union. Good morning, Jervis, Hi,

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Speaker 2: are you Katie very well? Now, Jervis with these school

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Speaker 2: principles thirty one principles or the Education Minister set around

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Speaker 2: thirty this morning confirmed, is that something that's fairly normal

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Speaker 2: at this time of the year from your perspective.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, I would say it's it's not unusual, Achille in

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Speaker 3: those smaller bush communities where we do see unfortunately quite

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Speaker 3: high turnover in many of those schools. But the thing

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Speaker 3: I'd point out is this is a better situation than

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Speaker 3: we were at so a few years ago, where often

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Speaker 3: those school communities are going into the Christmas holiday period

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Speaker 3: not knowing who'd be at the helm of the school

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Speaker 3: in the following years. So the fact that the positions

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Speaker 3: are being advertised now means they can advertise, they can

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Speaker 3: run panels for those schools that typically involves a community member,

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Speaker 3: and that those schools have certainty about who will be

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Speaker 3: in the principal's chair at the beginning of next year.

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Speaker 3: So this sort of turnover is a normal part of

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Speaker 3: what goes on in the territory. And you know, I

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Speaker 3: guess the big thing for us is as much as possible,

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Speaker 3: we want to keep that expertise.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, So many of those they can see the cause

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Speaker 3: because someone has perhaps won a promotion in a bigger school,

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Speaker 3: which means that there's a knock on effect in terms

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Speaker 3: of another vay consider to be filled.

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Speaker 2: What is the biggest factor that's driving the shortage you're

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Speaker 2: driving that you know that thirty positions and this being

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Speaker 2: sort of a regular thing at this time of the year.

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Speaker 3: So some of what I hear is that a lot

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Speaker 3: of people who are in that sort of assistant principal

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Speaker 3: type level. They look at the big step up as

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Speaker 3: far as responsibility goes that it is a big job

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Speaker 3: that's growing all the time. There's a lot of stresses

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Speaker 3: associated with it. People are typically working more than sixty

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Speaker 3: hours a week, and there's you know that many people

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Speaker 3: just say, am I am I wanting to put myself through.

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Speaker 4: All of that.

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Speaker 3: One of the other big things that you know, we've

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Speaker 3: raised for quite a while is, particularly those smaller remote schools,

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Speaker 3: is that we used to have a structure that meant

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Speaker 3: there was a lot more support from regional office and

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Speaker 3: head office for those small school principles. They had a

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Speaker 3: group school model, there was more administrative support and so on.

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Speaker 3: A lot of that's been stripped back, and I know

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Speaker 3: there's an awareness now that the department needs to look

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Speaker 3: at putting in place more support for those principles so

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Speaker 3: if they can get on with doing the teaching and

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Speaker 3: learning work and not having to worry as much about

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Speaker 3: you know, budgets and compliance and all of this other

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Speaker 3: stuff that goes along with the job, but which you know,

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Speaker 3: for many principles they're a teaching principal, they're meant to

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Speaker 3: spend eighty percent of their time in the classroom.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Jarvis, did that?

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Speaker 2: Did the PayPhrase full principles or that pay you know,

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Speaker 2: the changes to the pay for principles?

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Speaker 1: Did it have much of an impact?

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Speaker 3: Well, it certainly hasn't helped. And I you know, some

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Speaker 3: of this is just to do with this, you know,

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Speaker 3: people are coming up to retirement age, but there's certainly

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Speaker 3: a much less of an incentive the people are looking

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Speaker 3: at a four year pay frees to come back and

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Speaker 3: sign a new contract, for example. And more broadly with

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Speaker 3: the teaching workforce, where we're obviously very concerned about the

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Speaker 3: message that's being sent out with a four year pay

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Speaker 3: freeze that people look around and they see what's on

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Speaker 3: offer and they're hearing okay, no pay rise until at

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Speaker 3: least twenty twenty five in the territory. That's not a

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Speaker 3: good sell.

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Speaker 2: Now, what about I know that the principle and teacher

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Speaker 2: retention is obviously it's an issue all the time, But

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Speaker 2: what kind of impact is COVID and the uncertainty I

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Speaker 2: guess around the borders and Christmas time?

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Speaker 1: What kind of impact is that having?

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Speaker 4: Do you think at the moment, Well, it's hard to say,

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Speaker 4: and I think we'll we'll see a bit further down

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Speaker 4: the track, but you know, we've been vocal on this

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Speaker 4: issue and.

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Speaker 3: I've spoken to you about it, and it's obviously really

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Speaker 3: welcome what we're starting to hear from the Chief Minister,

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Speaker 3: what we're hearing in Queensland other places, that we are

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Speaker 3: moving towards a different set of arrangements. That will mean

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Speaker 3: you've got family in New South Wales and Victoria and

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Speaker 3: those sorts of places there certainly looks like they'll be

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Speaker 3: far more likelihood about a different regime of travel, and

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Speaker 3: I know people are waiting to hear a bit more

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Speaker 3: on what that detail will be. But that's crucial, I think,

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Speaker 3: because for the remote teachers in particular, they won't be

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Speaker 3: able to do another year of being totally isolated and

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Speaker 3: cut off into state from those bigger jurisdictions. I think

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Speaker 3: that we would see a very high levels of attrition

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Speaker 3: if that were to continue.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and yeah, I agree with you. I think that

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Speaker 2: it would have an impact. Without obviously working in that industry,

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Speaker 2: but right across the board, I think that there's plenty

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Speaker 2: of people sort of wanting that certainty. Now, Jarvis, we

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Speaker 2: know that the government obviously has released their strategy aimed

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Speaker 2: at lifting school attendance across the territory. It's also been

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Speaker 2: backed up, they say, by that initial ten million dollar

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Speaker 2: action plan over the next three years.

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Speaker 1: What did you make of the strategy.

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Speaker 3: Well, look, you know there's some gratification in the sense

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Speaker 3: no I wrote about this after the election last year

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Speaker 3: and said the number one focus for education and the

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Speaker 3: minister needed to be around particularly remote schooling. And there's

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Speaker 3: an acknowledgment here and you don't hear this very often government,

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Speaker 3: you know, being honest and saying yes, we do have

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Speaker 3: a problem. These numbers are very poor. I think there's

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Speaker 3: a case of the system sort of playing catch up

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Speaker 3: that in my experience on the ground in schools, people

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Speaker 3: have generally been able to articulate very clearly what it

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Speaker 3: is they need. What's welcome in terms of what we've

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Speaker 3: heard yesterday from the minister from the Education Department is

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Speaker 3: getting them on the same page about working with communities,

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Speaker 3: listening to young people, listening to elders in communities, about

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Speaker 3: making sure they're able to shape the type of education

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Speaker 3: that fits for their kids. You know, with that set,

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Speaker 3: I think we also need to be honest that as

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Speaker 3: was outlined in the discussion paper. The problem is most

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Speaker 3: pronounced in remote but even in our urban areas. You know,

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Speaker 3: school attendance is not is not what we need, and

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Speaker 3: we've got to work harder on getting kids engaged and

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Speaker 3: getting them through school successfully. We know that that is

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Speaker 3: the absolutely most fundamental thing that people need to set

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Speaker 3: themselves up for a productive and a flourishing life. And

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Speaker 3: I think we've made some good gains in the territory.

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Speaker 3: We're getting more kids through year twelve, we're getting more

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Speaker 3: year twelve kids are Indigenous kids graduating year twelve. But

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Speaker 3: there's still such a long way for us to go.

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Speaker 3: And it was refreshing to hear the minister at least

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Speaker 3: knowledge some of those issues. And so we can't just

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Speaker 3: continue on doing the same thing.

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Speaker 1: Yep.

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Speaker 2: Now do you reckon that there's any Do you think

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Speaker 2: that there is any link between that principal and teacher

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Speaker 2: retention and also a school attendance rights.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, one of the things that is of concern. I

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Speaker 3: think that the high turnover in those Bush schools particularly

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Speaker 3: you think about from the perspective in community and they're

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Speaker 3: just seeing faces coming and going. The effort needs to

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Speaker 3: be there about a long term commitment about trust being

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Speaker 3: built about we don't see you as the person who's

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Speaker 3: just sort of flown in for this term, but building

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Speaker 3: strong connections between the teaching workforce the other public services

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Speaker 3: are there in the local community, and those things take

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Speaker 3: a lot of time to build. I remember, you know,

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Speaker 3: someone telling me long time ago about the first year

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Speaker 3: you go out and teaching community, you'll mainly be learning.

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Speaker 3: The second year you might be starting to break even.

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Speaker 3: In the third year would be when you'd really start

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Speaker 3: to be able to make great inroads. And the big

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Speaker 3: issue we've seen, particularly with remote is very high level

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Speaker 3: of contract employment, a real churn, and one of the

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Speaker 3: big shifts that we've got the department to agree to

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Speaker 3: doing is looking at how they're doing recruitment that we

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Speaker 3: should not be looking at so much at six and

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Speaker 3: twelve month contracts, but a more rigorous recruitment process to

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Speaker 3: try to recruit people to be here permanently for the

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Speaker 3: longer term, which doesn't just have benefits in schooling, but

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Speaker 3: I think will help the territory in terms of its

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Speaker 3: population and growth. Strategy is we need people here raising

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Speaker 3: families and being here for the long firm and teachers

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Speaker 3: can provide a great spense of stability in every community and.

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Speaker 2: Jervis I know that I touched on obviously the principal

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Speaker 2: paycast or pay freeze that was introduced. But then when

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Speaker 2: you look at more broadly the public service wage freeze,

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Speaker 2: is that making it any more difficult in terms of

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Speaker 2: teacher recruitment for the territory, Well.

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Speaker 3: We certainly think it clearly won't help. And certainly our

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Speaker 3: view is when we surveyed our own members that more

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Speaker 3: than a fifth of them said that if the freeze

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Speaker 3: is in force, they will be looking for work elsewhere.

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Speaker 3: And we have queries from people looking at so maybe

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Speaker 3: coming across from Queensland and other places, and their question

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Speaker 3: is enough and when's your next pay rise? Due just

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Speaker 3: to just to bear in mind, in other jurisdictions, they're

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Speaker 3: typically looking at pay rises in the realm of about

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Speaker 3: two percent per annum. And the point I've made is

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Speaker 3: we don't necessarily need the biggest pay rises, but we

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Speaker 3: do need to remain competitive on the national stage, and

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Speaker 3: if we don't do that, there will be serious consequences

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Speaker 3: not just in terms of recruitment but also retention of

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Speaker 3: our teachers here. And we've launched a major advertising campaign

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Speaker 3: to that effect on television, highlighting that parents understand that

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Speaker 3: you've got your kidsh've got good teachers in the classroom.

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Speaker 3: You want to keep those kids here. Understand ultimately this

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Speaker 3: is about keeping our teachers in the territory and making

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Speaker 3: sure every child has a suitably qualified teacher in front

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Speaker 3: of their classroom.

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Speaker 2: Well, Javis Ran, the head of the Northern Territory Education Union,

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Speaker 2: always appreciate your time. Thank you very much for having

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Speaker 2: a chat with us today.

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Speaker 3: My pleasure, Katie.

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Speaker 1: Thank you