1 00:00:00,640 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: The situation with public drunkenness, and people are obviously returning 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,600 Speaker 1: to country, but more so you know some of that 3 00:00:08,640 --> 00:00:12,360 Speaker 1: behavior that we are seeing around public intoxication and what 4 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:15,000 Speaker 1: we're doing in this space to try to make some change. 5 00:00:15,040 --> 00:00:16,680 Speaker 2: Now. I know that the. 6 00:00:16,640 --> 00:00:21,240 Speaker 1: Property Council of the Northern Territory's executive director, Ruth Palmer, 7 00:00:21,280 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: had written an opinion piece for the Northern Territory News 8 00:00:24,040 --> 00:00:27,280 Speaker 1: over the weekend about this, but also the decline in 9 00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,960 Speaker 1: population that we saw in the latest Bureau of Statistics. 10 00:00:30,280 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 2: And she joins me on the line right now. Good 11 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:33,640 Speaker 2: morning to you, Ruth. 12 00:00:34,400 --> 00:00:35,920 Speaker 3: Good morning Katie. Thanks for having me. 13 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:37,520 Speaker 2: Ruth, great to have you on the show. 14 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:41,040 Speaker 1: We know that those recent Australian Bureau of Statistics population 15 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:44,880 Speaker 1: report for March this year, it painted a pretty sad picture. 16 00:00:44,920 --> 00:00:47,479 Speaker 1: I think that we have yet again returned to negative 17 00:00:47,600 --> 00:00:51,520 Speaker 1: population growth. You pend a piece for the Sunday Territory 18 00:00:51,560 --> 00:00:53,840 Speaker 1: and outline some of the things that you do think 19 00:00:53,880 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 1: at this point are contributing to that population decline. 20 00:00:58,000 --> 00:00:59,360 Speaker 2: Talk us through your concerns. 21 00:01:00,280 --> 00:01:02,840 Speaker 3: That's right, Katie. We you know, we're sort of hearing 22 00:01:02,880 --> 00:01:04,679 Speaker 3: that we are to come back capital, but we're not 23 00:01:04,720 --> 00:01:07,000 Speaker 3: going to be to come back capital unless we have 24 00:01:07,840 --> 00:01:10,399 Speaker 3: a big change to some of the issues that are 25 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,039 Speaker 3: detracting people from wanting to live in the territory, but 26 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,640 Speaker 3: also people who actually live here who are leaving, And 27 00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 3: people are leaving for various reasons, but one of the 28 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 3: ones we are seeing recently, which we've been talking about before, 29 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:27,040 Speaker 3: is this antisocial behavior and the public intoxication and also 30 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:30,319 Speaker 3: crime that's occurring, and that is becoming a real issue. 31 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:33,479 Speaker 3: But it's not just in Darwin, it's obviously now all 32 00:01:33,520 --> 00:01:37,520 Speaker 3: across the territory. And frightening now is they're sort of 33 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,760 Speaker 3: becoming physical sort of assaults to which is which is 34 00:01:40,760 --> 00:01:43,360 Speaker 3: something that is very concerning when you're trying to entract 35 00:01:43,400 --> 00:01:44,480 Speaker 3: people to want to come here. 36 00:01:44,920 --> 00:01:47,319 Speaker 1: Well, what sort of you know what has sort of 37 00:01:47,360 --> 00:01:50,920 Speaker 1: prompted you to write this piece, but to also speak 38 00:01:50,960 --> 00:01:53,320 Speaker 1: publicly about it and some of the concerns that the 39 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: Property Council have got and you know, ways that you 40 00:01:56,560 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 1: think this needs to be worked out. 41 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,320 Speaker 3: We've been involved with the sort of attraction of people 42 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 3: wanting to come here. We've always been strong supporters of 43 00:02:06,200 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 3: growing the Northern Territory, but we can't do that unless 44 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 3: we sort of really looked out at the key reasons 45 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:14,360 Speaker 3: as to why people want to come here, but also 46 00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,919 Speaker 3: why people are leaving. There's three main things that will 47 00:02:16,960 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: always bring people somewhere. It's people, it's jobs, but it's 48 00:02:21,080 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 3: lifestyle and amenity. So you know, those are three things 49 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:25,680 Speaker 3: that go hand in hand and these are things we 50 00:02:25,760 --> 00:02:28,880 Speaker 3: addressed in our report we also released this year. So 51 00:02:28,919 --> 00:02:30,680 Speaker 3: we just know that we need to keep the pressure 52 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,480 Speaker 3: on that this situation isn't going to change unless some 53 00:02:33,520 --> 00:02:37,240 Speaker 3: real action is taken and unfortunately the government's current policy 54 00:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,920 Speaker 3: around the any social behavior and their five point plan 55 00:02:40,560 --> 00:02:42,120 Speaker 3: has failed to our belief. 56 00:02:42,560 --> 00:02:42,840 Speaker 2: Bruce. 57 00:02:42,880 --> 00:02:44,840 Speaker 1: We did catch up with the Chief Innessty yesterday and 58 00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:47,520 Speaker 1: we spoke a little bit more about this and certainly 59 00:02:47,560 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 1: spoke about the return to Country program. He said that 60 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:53,079 Speaker 1: in the month of March we've now seen four hundred 61 00:02:53,080 --> 00:02:56,079 Speaker 1: people return to country through that program, which is more 62 00:02:56,120 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 1: than what we've seen in the three months prior. There 63 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:01,440 Speaker 1: is no doubt we've heard it from the Northern Territory 64 00:03:01,440 --> 00:03:03,480 Speaker 1: Police as well. There is a lot more people in 65 00:03:03,520 --> 00:03:06,120 Speaker 1: town at the moment. The reasons that the Chief min 66 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: Ister gave with things like COVID having an impact do 67 00:03:09,680 --> 00:03:12,840 Speaker 1: you think that you know what from your perspective, do 68 00:03:12,919 --> 00:03:14,639 Speaker 1: you think that we need to have a closer look 69 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:17,160 Speaker 1: in this space as to you know, what people are doing, 70 00:03:17,200 --> 00:03:20,600 Speaker 1: why they're in town, you know, and why then I 71 00:03:20,639 --> 00:03:22,560 Speaker 1: guess they're not wanting to go home. 72 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:25,640 Speaker 3: That's right. I mean, it is a complex social problem, 73 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 3: and we believe that people that do come into town, 74 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:30,639 Speaker 3: they don't usually have a place to stay, so they 75 00:03:30,639 --> 00:03:33,679 Speaker 3: are homeless, they are in the on the streets, or 76 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 3: they're out which may then turn into unacceptable behavior. So 77 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: that is what we're seeing. But we know that through 78 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 3: our wet seasons as well, people can't get back to country. 79 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:45,880 Speaker 3: Our roads are closed and it's very difficult for people 80 00:03:45,880 --> 00:03:48,960 Speaker 3: to get in and out of around the territory, especially 81 00:03:49,000 --> 00:03:51,400 Speaker 3: to those remote communities. So that is something that needs 82 00:03:51,440 --> 00:03:53,720 Speaker 3: to be to be looked out of how those people 83 00:03:53,760 --> 00:03:57,320 Speaker 3: can get home safely or how people in the territory 84 00:03:57,360 --> 00:03:59,440 Speaker 3: have a home to sleep in. So we're not seeing 85 00:03:59,480 --> 00:04:01,560 Speaker 3: people out two or three am in the morning, but 86 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,960 Speaker 3: we know now that it is something that is occurring 87 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:06,280 Speaker 3: also through the day. So we need to make sure 88 00:04:06,320 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 3: that we have a collective group together, we have all 89 00:04:09,240 --> 00:04:13,200 Speaker 3: the councils or the land councils, the traditional owners, because 90 00:04:13,320 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 3: it isn't just segregated to a certain amount of certain 91 00:04:17,160 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 3: people either, So it is everybody in the territory that 92 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:22,200 Speaker 3: has this responsibility and there are other people that are 93 00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:25,640 Speaker 3: obviously involved in this unacceptable behavior. So we need to 94 00:04:25,680 --> 00:04:28,440 Speaker 3: make sure we have a collective group around how we 95 00:04:28,520 --> 00:04:32,320 Speaker 3: can deal with these issues that are a real detractor 96 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 3: to wanting to grow our population but also to have 97 00:04:35,240 --> 00:04:37,520 Speaker 3: our economy boosting and have Darwin as the place that 98 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:39,960 Speaker 3: we know and love. And I know that's some miritry really. 99 00:04:40,000 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, well, absolutely right around the territory. I know. 100 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,200 Speaker 1: That's something that you did point out in that piece 101 00:04:45,240 --> 00:04:47,680 Speaker 1: that you wrote on the weekend was not only you know, 102 00:04:48,040 --> 00:04:51,040 Speaker 1: you looked at those crime statistics, which we've reported on 103 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:54,400 Speaker 1: this show on numerous occasions, about some of those crime 104 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 1: stats going right up, but then you also questioned, you know, 105 00:04:58,000 --> 00:05:00,600 Speaker 1: why don't we have some of those statistics on antisocial 106 00:05:00,640 --> 00:05:02,760 Speaker 1: behavior and public intoxication. 107 00:05:03,839 --> 00:05:06,880 Speaker 3: That's correct, We see the statistics coming around on the 108 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,159 Speaker 3: crime on property damage, on assault, but one thing that 109 00:05:10,279 --> 00:05:13,200 Speaker 3: is not clear and is not reported on is any 110 00:05:13,200 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 3: social behavior and public intoxication. And we believe to be 111 00:05:17,080 --> 00:05:20,039 Speaker 3: able to provide some greater transparency. The government needs to 112 00:05:20,080 --> 00:05:23,200 Speaker 3: release these figures because once we have those details, it 113 00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 3: gives us more opportunity to be able to put together 114 00:05:26,040 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: a framework or work with the government maybe so they 115 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,360 Speaker 3: can get some kind of vision in place to how 116 00:05:32,400 --> 00:05:35,479 Speaker 3: this situation can be reverted, how we can sort of 117 00:05:35,560 --> 00:05:38,919 Speaker 3: lower that trend because at the moment, the current policies 118 00:05:38,960 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 3: are failing. And you know, that's an eight point nine 119 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:44,159 Speaker 3: million dollar plan that went in and it's not working. 120 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:46,679 Speaker 3: We have no doubt Return to the Country is doing 121 00:05:47,120 --> 00:05:49,480 Speaker 3: what it was aimed to do, but unfortunately the other 122 00:05:49,520 --> 00:05:52,120 Speaker 3: policies around it simply aren't good enough. I know. 123 00:05:52,600 --> 00:05:54,960 Speaker 1: The Health Minister also said on the show this morning 124 00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: that they're going to be introducing a policy change when 125 00:05:57,400 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: it comes to alcohol in some of those communities. It 126 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:04,080 Speaker 1: is something that had previously fallen under the federal realm, 127 00:06:04,160 --> 00:06:08,000 Speaker 1: but they're going to be introducing this policy change to 128 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,320 Speaker 1: allow some in some communities. If it is something that 129 00:06:11,360 --> 00:06:15,560 Speaker 1: those communities want alcohol licenses or liquor licenses, it is 130 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,080 Speaker 1: going to have to go through the approvals process. But 131 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,000 Speaker 1: that's something that they're looking at doing pretty well straight away. 132 00:06:22,000 --> 00:06:23,800 Speaker 1: I did question, though, is that just going to be 133 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: moving some of the issues that we see on the 134 00:06:25,480 --> 00:06:27,760 Speaker 1: streets in Darwen out to communities. 135 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:30,360 Speaker 3: Oh, a lot of the things in the city at 136 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:32,799 Speaker 3: the moment. With Darwin City and especially down in our springs, 137 00:06:32,839 --> 00:06:35,360 Speaker 3: you do have access to alcohol in a very close 138 00:06:35,520 --> 00:06:38,320 Speaker 3: proximity to certain area. So I know in the Dahin 139 00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:40,719 Speaker 3: city alone, there's about six or seven bottle shops within 140 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 3: almost arms for each of each other. So you know, 141 00:06:43,040 --> 00:06:45,960 Speaker 3: it is minimizing that risk. We've got to remember that 142 00:06:46,000 --> 00:06:48,040 Speaker 3: when people are back in their home country, when they 143 00:06:48,080 --> 00:06:50,479 Speaker 3: are back on country, they're in their own space, so 144 00:06:50,520 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: they have access to the healthcare. They've also got access 145 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 3: to shelter and access to a safer environment. So when 146 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 3: they are out of their zone, if it may then 147 00:06:59,560 --> 00:07:03,039 Speaker 3: occur to be seen as they might turn into some 148 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 3: unacceptable behavior. So that's the sort of conversations we need 149 00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 3: to start having, and we need to start making sure 150 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 3: that there are services available and that we do provide 151 00:07:11,760 --> 00:07:16,080 Speaker 3: the right environment for people, because everybody deserves somewhere safe 152 00:07:16,120 --> 00:07:17,840 Speaker 3: and everyone deserves a home right. 153 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,000 Speaker 1: So I know there'll be people listening this morning thinking 154 00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:22,480 Speaker 1: how come the property councils sort of involving themselves in 155 00:07:22,520 --> 00:07:25,320 Speaker 1: this discussion. But I guess from your perspective, it's looking 156 00:07:25,360 --> 00:07:28,880 Speaker 1: at things in terms of that population decline and some 157 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,080 Speaker 1: of the issues that we've got that people are raising. 158 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:33,800 Speaker 3: Well, that's right, and a lot of it, Katie, is 159 00:07:33,840 --> 00:07:37,200 Speaker 3: property crime. So we obviously look after the entire property industry. 160 00:07:37,560 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 3: Anything sort of that we're in is a property related thing. 161 00:07:41,240 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 3: So you know, this is obviously something that affects our industry, 162 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,000 Speaker 3: but it affects the retailers, it affects landlords, it affects everyone. 163 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 3: So we all love the territory and we all want 164 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,520 Speaker 3: to stay and remain here and make it the best 165 00:07:53,520 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 3: place that we can. But if we want to encourage 166 00:07:55,720 --> 00:07:58,120 Speaker 3: people to come here, and if we want to encourage 167 00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 3: people to stay here, these are a key This is 168 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,760 Speaker 3: the key part of that transition. So we do all 169 00:08:03,800 --> 00:08:07,280 Speaker 3: need to collectively get together, everybody gets involved, and there 170 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:09,640 Speaker 3: really needs to be some change because at the moment 171 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:12,800 Speaker 3: we are going downwards and we're not going to see 172 00:08:12,800 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 3: this reverse until there's some bigger changes that are made, 173 00:08:16,640 --> 00:08:19,040 Speaker 3: and it has to be immediate, and the government really 174 00:08:19,120 --> 00:08:21,520 Speaker 3: needs to sort of step on that and get that 175 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 3: action in well. 176 00:08:23,040 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 1: Ruth Palmer, the executive director of the Property Council of 177 00:08:26,520 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 1: Australia's Northern Territory branch, we appreciate your time, thanks for 178 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:30,360 Speaker 1: having a chat. 179 00:08:30,160 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 2: With us this morning. Thanks a lot, Katie, thank you.