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Speaker 1: The Environment Center has unveiled a report that outlines alternatives

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Speaker 1: to the Middle Arm precinct for a clean energy future

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Speaker 1: in the Northern Territory using the one point five billion

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Speaker 1: dollars committed to Middle Arm from the federal government. The

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Speaker 1: Recharging the Territory Report its pitch to tackle the cost

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Speaker 1: of living crisis while creating energy security and jobs. Now

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Speaker 1: joining us on the line to talk us through the

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Speaker 1: details is one of the report's authors, clean energy analyst

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Speaker 1: and Spring Mountain Advisory Managing Director Tom Quinn.

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Speaker 2: Good morning, Tom, Hey Katie, how are you going?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, really good. Great to have you on the show. Now, Tom,

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Speaker 1: what does this report include?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Well, look, straight up, I think it's good. The

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Speaker 2: federal government's investing one and a half billion dollars in

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Speaker 2: the Northern Territory. They should probably do more. And I

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Speaker 2: guess this report though, is showing that it's not just

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Speaker 2: about the money. Territories should have a choice in how

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Speaker 2: that money is spent, and this kind of ways out

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Speaker 2: a different way we could spend it. They would create

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Speaker 2: more jobs, particularly more local jobs rather than five bow jobs.

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Speaker 2: They would slash the cost of living, and you know,

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Speaker 2: really set the territory up for future, So Jim to

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Speaker 2: give you a quick run through then we can.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that'd be good, definitely.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. It's basically cut into three sections. The first is

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Speaker 2: really looking at the foundation industry needs. If we want

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Speaker 2: to build like a vibrant industry manufacturing sector here in

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Speaker 2: the territory, we really need two things. One is energy security,

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Speaker 2: and as we saw with the blackout the other week,

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Speaker 2: you know, we need our energy system to be more secure.

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Speaker 2: And the way we can do that is look what

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Speaker 2: w A is doing and basically build a big battery

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Speaker 2: that can soak uple that solar power in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the day. Let those solar farms connect into the

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Speaker 2: grid and provide the lowest cost of energy that we

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Speaker 2: know of that we've ever created. Next to that, it's

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Speaker 2: also we've got to make sure we've got the skilled workers.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: Part of the proposer is building out this center of

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Speaker 2: excellence in Darwin Catherine ten in our Springs to basically

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Speaker 2: build up the next generation of energy workers, you know,

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Speaker 2: so that kids in the territory can train to become

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Speaker 2: electrician and line workers and all the rest and really

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Speaker 2: fill these jobs locally. And once you get that foundation built,

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Speaker 2: you can start to do more exciting things. And so

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Speaker 2: the second step of this plan is to really focus

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Speaker 2: on east Ham. You know where the porta Dale currently is.

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Speaker 2: It's got all the facilities you need to make industries scalable.

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Speaker 2: You've got the rail line going in there, you've got

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Speaker 2: the common facilities, you've got wolves that can export pretty

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Speaker 2: much anything. But you've got strategic land there. And what

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Speaker 2: we should be doing is developing that strategic land holding

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Speaker 2: and turning them into common use and manufacturing facilities. You know,

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Speaker 2: Queensland just last week announced one hundred and five million

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Speaker 2: dollar investment into a battery industrialization center that's going to

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Speaker 2: create nine thousand jobs by twenty thirty over there. You know,

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Speaker 2: we should be doing the same thing here. If we

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Speaker 2: look to the West coast, they've got a similar initiative,

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Speaker 2: except it's called the Australian Marine Industry Center. You know,

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Speaker 2: these government owned but industry bids in. It means we

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Speaker 2: can get those industries located here and dar when we

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Speaker 2: dixisting facilities and not duplicate services across two locations, which

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Speaker 2: is pretty mad, you know, in a small population like

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Speaker 2: the territory.

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Speaker 1: So Tom, do you reckon we're able to do all

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Speaker 1: of this. I mean, you reckon, we're able to have

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Speaker 1: you know, a middle Arm being an industrial precinct without

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Speaker 1: going down the gas pass.

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Speaker 2: Look, my view is East Arm is where industry makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Like I try to get economies of scale happening, and

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Speaker 2: East Arm is already well set up. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of potential industries that I think make sense in the

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Speaker 2: territory that that particularly will help grow the SME sector

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Speaker 2: because you know, if we want a vibrant economy, having

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Speaker 2: massive international corporations come in and just suck a resource

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Speaker 2: seven send overseas, that doesn't actually grow your local economy much.

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Speaker 2: You've got to get the SMEs stood up because they

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Speaker 2: buy from each other, they employ locally, and the money

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Speaker 2: keeps going around in our local economy more. There's things

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Speaker 2: that we could be doing, particularly, like you know, we

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Speaker 2: should be looking at building the micro good energy systems.

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Speaker 2: We know we need to start deploying throughout the territory.

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Speaker 2: We should be building them locally, not importing them Provacas.

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Speaker 2: And if we can start building them here, we can

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Speaker 2: also export them to our neighbors in the Pacific and stuff.

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Speaker 2: We should be looking at modular housing manufacturing. You know,

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Speaker 2: we've got very high remote housing costs. One way you

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Speaker 2: can get that down is you start building modular housing

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Speaker 2: here in the territory. And of course, you know, we

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Speaker 2: should also be looking at turning our like lithium exports,

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Speaker 2: which you know, Core is obviously in a bit of

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Speaker 2: trouble at the moment, but we are pulling high quality

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Speaker 2: lithium out of the ground here in the territory, but

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Speaker 2: we're exporting it just as a raw product for you know,

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Speaker 2: two thousand, two five hundred US dollars a ton. If

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Speaker 2: we just did one step more and turn to the

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Speaker 2: lithium hydroxide, we'd get twenty five thousand dollars a ton.

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Speaker 2: It would make a hell of a lot more dense

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Speaker 2: and again, build that value chain, build that complexity in

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Speaker 2: the anti economy that will create good quality local jobs.

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Speaker 1: Just looking back at I suppose you know, looking at

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Speaker 1: solar for ex you know, we've already got a number

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Speaker 1: of those renewable projects in the Northern Territory, but they're

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Speaker 1: still not connected to the grid. You know, some people

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Speaker 1: are going to be asking how we can develop more

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Speaker 1: if we're not able to sort of utilize the ones

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Speaker 1: that we've.

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Speaker 2: Got yeah, or I've got to say I've worked in Queensland, WA,

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Speaker 2: down South. I've never seen a situation where you've got

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Speaker 2: completed solar farms that can't connect to the grid. It

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Speaker 2: isn't and that is why part of this report it's

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Speaker 2: very much the way you fix this is you put

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Speaker 2: in a big battery. It's what WA is doing. They've

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Speaker 2: installed a big battery in Collie about the same side

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Speaker 2: of what we're putting the report, and it is contracted

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Speaker 2: to soak up four hours of solar in the middle

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Speaker 2: of the day and then sell it in the evening.

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Speaker 2: We need to do that here because if you increase

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Speaker 2: that demand through the batter in the middle of the day,

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Speaker 2: those solar farms be able to connect in get those

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Speaker 2: low cost electrons. Going. A big battery also stop us

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Speaker 2: having you know, blackouts or stuff like we did the

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Speaker 2: other week. By stabilizing the system and providing back up

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Speaker 2: for when the guest term and fail, you know, we

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Speaker 2: don't even have to innovate. We can just look to

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Speaker 2: what WA is doing, what's what South Australia is doing,

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Speaker 2: and just copy their solutions and apply them here.

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Speaker 1: Tom, how much does a big battery cost. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I know the federal government have earmarked I think it's

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Speaker 1: one point five billion dollars for middle arm. But you

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Speaker 1: know how much does something like a big battery cost.

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Speaker 2: Well, the big battery've got in our report and this

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Speaker 2: is going to get a little bit technical now, we're

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Speaker 2: costed in three hundred move in for a big battery,

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Speaker 2: which is pretty equivalent to what they've putting Collie. And

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Speaker 2: just for contrast, so the little big battery that's currently

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Speaker 2: being built out is a thirty five thirty five mega

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Speaker 2: what our size battery, which basically provides you know, one

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Speaker 2: hour of backup power. That's equivalent to I haven't one

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Speaker 2: gas turbine. Look, it's good that it's tiny. We're proposing

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Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty six hundred, which is basically a

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Speaker 2: battery big enough to soak up power for four hours

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Speaker 2: and discharge it for four hours continuously. At one hundred

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Speaker 2: and fifty megal, that is big. That would solve pretty

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Speaker 2: much the majority of the grit issues we're facing up here.

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Speaker 2: Because it's equivalent to our demand higher than low Tom.

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Speaker 1: Some people listening are going to be thinking as well,

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Speaker 1: you know, one of the things that the government's touted

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Speaker 1: is that, you know, with the Middle Arm precinct is

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Speaker 1: that it would mean jobs. You know, like they're saying

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Speaker 1: that it would mean jobs and potential opportunities for young

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Speaker 1: people in the territory. I mean, with what you're talking

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Speaker 1: about in the environment center, are there going to be jobs?

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Speaker 1: Are they going to be the same level of jobs?

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Speaker 2: There's going to be more? Like our modeling shows this.

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Speaker 2: By doing this hoping we got thirty which is basically

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Speaker 2: upgrading housing, where we can send those things that I've

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Speaker 2: just running through, You've still got more than six hundred

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Speaker 2: million change left of that one and a half billion

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Speaker 2: dollars that we can use to basically put more soul

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Speaker 2: on houses, upgrade every single low income house old of

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Speaker 2: a territory, upgrade every single public housing, and build more houses.

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Speaker 2: What our proposal does it creates a lot of jobs

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Speaker 2: for trade from the constructions through to the electrical. It

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Speaker 2: creates jobs for educators as well. You know, these are

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Speaker 2: all good quality local jobs that we can create a

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Speaker 2: long forward thing of demand for the challenge with big

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Speaker 2: projects with like middle Arm, like we've seen previously, the

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Speaker 2: impacts is they have a lot of workers during the

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Speaker 2: construction phase and then they get laid off and they

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Speaker 2: have a very small operational workforce. You know, we're pretty

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Speaker 2: much just ten years from when Impacts laid off, you know,

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Speaker 2: half one and a half thousand people before Christmas because

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Speaker 2: they were done with construction phase and now they just

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Speaker 2: employ a few hundred people down there. You know, if

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Speaker 2: we want to create vibrant to cure jobs, we've got

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Speaker 2: to grow the SME sector. The big gas giants, you know,

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Speaker 2: they're not going to create those long term jobs that

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Speaker 2: we need. They're not going to create the diversity of jobs.

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Speaker 2: They're going to create a lot of jobs in a

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Speaker 2: very short space of time. That'll be you know, a

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Speaker 2: huge amount of fiphos, which we know has big impacts

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Speaker 2: and rents, which is fine, but then they go and

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Speaker 2: you know, we just end up in the same situation

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Speaker 2: where the terrace is today.

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Speaker 1: So, Tom, are you going to be taking i mean,

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Speaker 1: with the you know, with this report that has been

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Speaker 1: put together, are you going to be taking it to

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Speaker 1: the federal government, this plan or are you also going

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Speaker 1: to be pitching it to the major parties ahead of

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Speaker 1: the Northern Territory election, like where to from here?

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Speaker 2: Look, we're in lots of active, constructive discussions like I'm

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Speaker 2: not here to hit out, let's more to say, how

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Speaker 2: do we get better outcomes to the NT And so yeah,

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Speaker 2: we are chatting with the with the federal government, with

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Speaker 2: the NT government to go, well, how do we You know,

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Speaker 2: you don't have to adopt everything this report, it's just

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Speaker 2: an idea showing you can get a lot of bang

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Speaker 2: for your buck for one and half billion dollars in

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Speaker 2: the territory. You know, the option on the table at

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Speaker 2: the moment is basically subsidizing the business expansion plans of

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Speaker 2: very pofitable gas companies. You know, could we spend it

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Speaker 2: in a better way that will give better outcomes of territories,

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Speaker 2: create more jobs and cut across the living And I

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Speaker 2: think yes. And that's really the discussions we're having with

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Speaker 2: governments of all persuasions to make sure, you know, we

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Speaker 2: get the best outcome for the territory.

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Speaker 1: Well, Tom, think it is important to you know, to

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Speaker 1: have those discussions, and of course everybody will have differing opinions,

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Speaker 1: but I think it's important to have those discussions. So

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Speaker 1: I really appreciate you coming on the show this morning and.

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Speaker 2: Having a chat with me absolute pleasure. Thank thank you,