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Speaker 1: Job mission with Jones and Amanda. Well, it's an election

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Speaker 1: year and with all eyes on our politicians, it's very

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Speaker 1: timely we look at a new biography of arguably arguably

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Speaker 1: the most loved prime minister Australia has seen. That's Bob Hawk.

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Speaker 1: This book has been written by Troy Bramston, the only

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Speaker 1: journalist that Bob cooperated with after leaving his prime ministership.

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Speaker 1: Joins us.

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Speaker 2: Now, Hello, Troy, good morning, great to talk to you

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Speaker 2: about Troy.

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Speaker 1: To talk to you.

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Speaker 3: The big question would be how would Hawky go as

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Speaker 3: a prime minister now in the social media world.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, look, well he had throughout his whole life great

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Speaker 2: demons that he was chasing, you know, the drink or

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Speaker 2: the womanizing. He could give up a drink when he

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Speaker 2: was Prime minister. But I think he would find it

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Speaker 2: much much tougher today, twenty four hour news, social media,

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Speaker 2: everyone's got a phone on their camera. He would find

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Speaker 2: it tougher today. But I think he still had those

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Speaker 2: great political skills in terms of being able to run

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Speaker 2: a government. Are two things in government and communicate with

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Speaker 2: the voters. You know, he had a great rapport with

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Speaker 2: every day Australia. So it'd be tougher, but it's still

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Speaker 2: go okay.

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Speaker 1: It's interesting he's sort of got a touch of the

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Speaker 1: warnings that people almost laughed when he stuffed up, whereas

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Speaker 1: a modern politician would not get the same generosity.

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Speaker 2: I think that's right. And one of the sixth to

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Speaker 2: understanding Bob is that he never pretended to be someone

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Speaker 2: that he wasn't. He never lied about anything. It was

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Speaker 2: quite open and honest about his floors, you know, the

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Speaker 2: womanizing or drinking. And in the nineteen sixties and seventies,

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Speaker 2: people saw that upfront, up close, you know. They saw

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Speaker 2: it on TV, they heard about it on radio, and

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Speaker 2: saw it in the newspapers. He was a terrible drunk

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Speaker 2: and was a notorious chaser of women. Now that is significant,

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Speaker 2: but he never lied about it. He had the flaws

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Speaker 2: and everybody knew that that's what it was.

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Speaker 1: How did he get away with all of the women?

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Speaker 1: Because I was reading that in your book that there

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Speaker 1: were like four or five on the go at the time.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's right. A lot of people think that the

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Speaker 2: woman eysing kind of ended when he became Prime minister,

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Speaker 2: but he did still chase a number of women, and

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Speaker 2: he had a number of long term affairs that even

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Speaker 2: took place at the lodge. Now, this is not acceptable

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Speaker 2: in that period in the nineteen eighties or early nineteen nineties,

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Speaker 2: and it's certainly not acceptable now. So I think that

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Speaker 2: the Australian people and the media as well have a

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Speaker 2: different standard when it comes to politicians. But I think

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Speaker 2: it's also keep worth keeping in mind that Bob, as

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Speaker 2: I say, always open about his flaws, and so with

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Speaker 2: Shamed Warren actually, and there's a similarity there. I think

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Speaker 2: Australians who respected that authenticity, that openness, that the fact

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Speaker 2: that they could identify with them and sort of see

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Speaker 2: themselves in aspects of their lives.

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Speaker 1: You have a treasure tribe of interviews that you've done

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Speaker 1: and accessed, as well as access to personal papers. What

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Speaker 1: was the thing that really surprised you?

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Speaker 2: Well, look, I mean, I think he was a much

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Speaker 2: more deeply flawed person than we realized. But I think

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Speaker 2: he was also a much better prime minister than we realized.

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Speaker 2: You know, he was a very very effective runner of

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Speaker 2: the government, of managing a cabinet, looking after the public service,

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Speaker 2: welcoming Franklin Feeler's advice putting the nation first, and the

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Speaker 2: achievements of his government are very significant, whether it's the

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Speaker 2: land mark economic reforms of turbots are productivity and competitiveness,

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Speaker 2: or things like many Care or the six Discrimination Act,

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Speaker 2: or saving the day Tree or cat to Do. These

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Speaker 2: are landmark achievements. And in the book, it's been great

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Speaker 2: to look at some of Bob's personal notes, cabinet papers,

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Speaker 2: conversations he had with world leaders at the end of

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Speaker 2: the Cold War. So we get I think, a new insight,

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Speaker 2: our fresh approach to Bob and we can see how

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Speaker 2: some of these big decisions are made and how he

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Speaker 2: ran a government.

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Speaker 3: But so charismatic whenever you saw him do something, from

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Speaker 3: getting out on the cricket pitch and all being confronted

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Speaker 3: by that old bloke in the shoppings that remember, the

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Speaker 3: silly old bugger thing, it just always worked for him.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Look, he had a real connection with everyday Australians.

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Speaker 2: They identified with him, they liked him, they respected him.

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Speaker 2: You know, in nine point eighty four his approval rating

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Speaker 2: was a staggering seventy eight percent. We haven't had a

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Speaker 2: Prime minister come within kue of that sense or even before.

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Speaker 2: So he had a great connection with people, And Bob

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Speaker 2: told me that one of the two to understanding his

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Speaker 2: popularity was that he actually liked people. He liked meeting them.

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Speaker 2: He loved them, They loved him. They knew that he

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Speaker 2: was interested in them, so he could never drag him

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Speaker 2: away from a crowd of people or a rope, wine

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Speaker 2: or anything like that.

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Speaker 3: And he loved some more than others as well, love

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Speaker 3: some more than he should have.

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Speaker 2: He certainly loved the women, There's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 3: Well, Troy. It's a great book, Bob Hawk, Demons and Destiny.

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Speaker 3: It's in good bookstores now and online. Troy Bramston, thank

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Speaker 3: you for joining us.

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Speaker 2: That's a great pleasure to talk to you both. Thank you,

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Speaker 2: Thank you, Troy Jonesy and Amanda's