WEBVTT - The Truth About Amy Conversations Episode 10 0:00:00.680 --> 0:00:06.400 This podcast contains information and details relating to suicide. We 0:00:06.600 --> 0:00:11.960 urge anyone struggling with their emotions to contact Lifeline I'm 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:19.040 thirteen eleven fourteen thirteen eleven fourteen, or visit them at 0:00:19.360 --> 0:00:22.200 lifeline dot org dot au. 0:00:28.560 --> 0:00:32.479 Hello, Welcome to the tenth installment of Conversations and the 0:00:32.600 --> 0:00:34.040 last one for the year. 0:00:34.960 --> 0:00:38.159 Liam, Welcome Allison. It's been a long journey, hasn't it 0:00:38.159 --> 0:00:38.680 it has. 0:00:38.880 --> 0:00:41.120 I am in Perth with Liam and Tim. I saw 0:00:41.120 --> 0:00:44.239 Tim earlier, but unfortunately Tim has got stuck in that 0:00:44.280 --> 0:00:46.800 Rebello trial, which is fascinating, right. 0:00:48.080 --> 0:00:49.760 That is an interesting case Cracker. 0:00:50.080 --> 0:00:52.680 Also the fact that the friends were stuffed up in 0:00:52.720 --> 0:00:53.520 that case too. 0:00:53.680 --> 0:00:57.040 It's interesting, isn't it? But not as interesting as the 0:00:57.080 --> 0:00:59.280 case that we've been looking at for all these past 0:00:59.320 --> 0:01:04.000 weeks months. And we live in hope that the new team, 0:01:04.120 --> 0:01:06.479 as they call it, the new investigative Team, the task 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:10.080 force that they've put into place, looking at the new 0:01:10.160 --> 0:01:12.959 leads that they have. Now. I know there's been some 0:01:13.000 --> 0:01:17.080 conjecture on this, even from within police ranks. There are 0:01:17.120 --> 0:01:20.800 still some policemen I don't think police women, but I'm 0:01:21.160 --> 0:01:25.039 willing to bet that there are still some policemen in 0:01:25.160 --> 0:01:29.360 senior ranks who don't treat and are not treating, at 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:33.559 least mentally, some of these pieces of information as new 0:01:33.800 --> 0:01:37.399 leads on Amy's case. Now, whether or not that is 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.440 a mental block that they have because they don't want 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:44.240 to for various reasons over the course of the journey, 0:01:44.240 --> 0:01:47.880 because they're involved in the case on various levels, that's 0:01:48.120 --> 0:01:51.560 a matter of conjecture. But can I just say to 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:55.880 you anyone, anyone with an investigative background who is not 0:01:56.400 --> 0:01:58.840 treating the pieces of information that have been brought to 0:01:58.880 --> 0:02:01.640 light through this podcast and through some of our very 0:02:01.680 --> 0:02:05.200 loyal listeners and people who have been prepared to ring 0:02:05.240 --> 0:02:10.000 crime stoppers and do the right thing after all these years, 0:02:10.600 --> 0:02:13.520 give for whatever information they've had, whatever information they think 0:02:13.800 --> 0:02:17.520 could be valuable to police to consider. If there are 0:02:17.520 --> 0:02:22.639 still people who don't think they constitute solid new leads, 0:02:23.360 --> 0:02:25.240 I'm sorry, but they're living on another planet. 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:27.320 Well not just leads, but evidence. 0:02:27.560 --> 0:02:29.919 I'm treating that as the same thing. It's a lead, 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:34.320 it's evidence, it's you know, it's material information, Allison. 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.399 Yes, exactly. And I think it's just really important that 0:02:38.520 --> 0:02:42.240 we look at everything. Yeah, I mean, we talk about 0:02:42.440 --> 0:02:45.959 an open mind and open mind is an interesting conceptism 0:02:46.040 --> 0:02:50.360 that when people say open mind, because I think anybody 0:02:50.400 --> 0:02:54.040 who was involved with the case in the early stages 0:02:54.639 --> 0:02:56.560 shouldn't be working on it now. 0:02:56.880 --> 0:02:58.960 No, I agree with that. I agree with that. I 0:02:58.960 --> 0:03:01.040 think they have a lot of copy book in that sense. 0:03:01.080 --> 0:03:03.800 I mean they've shown that they have a very narrow 0:03:03.919 --> 0:03:08.400 view of what took place or the possibilities, permutations, combinations 0:03:08.400 --> 0:03:11.200 of what may have happened may not have happened. So 0:03:11.280 --> 0:03:14.840 I think let's just push them to the sideline. They 0:03:14.840 --> 0:03:18.520 can spend their time happily thinking about other things. But 0:03:18.560 --> 0:03:22.280 I think for Amy and for Amy's family, especially for 0:03:22.320 --> 0:03:27.080 her two girls, we have to have an open mind. 0:03:27.120 --> 0:03:29.359 As you say, it's an open book at this stage. 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.000 In fact, the coroner said it was an open finding, 0:03:32.639 --> 0:03:35.200 so I think that's pretty consistent. So we know that 0:03:35.240 --> 0:03:36.920 homicide is certainly on the table. 0:03:37.440 --> 0:03:41.000 Yes, absolutely, Look, I've been speaking to other people as well, 0:03:41.440 --> 0:03:44.720 legal people. One of them has talked about now and 0:03:44.760 --> 0:03:46.920 a lot of our listeners up to finding the wood buyer, 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.360 right the wood buyer who Amy was sending all these 0:03:50.360 --> 0:03:55.160 messages to David Simmons about getting back with the wood, 0:03:55.600 --> 0:03:58.360 so that they could sell the wood to the wood buyer. 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.520 He was coming at three fifteen pm on that day, yes, 0:04:03.040 --> 0:04:05.000 so she needed him to be home because that's when 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.440 she collects the kids, right, So the boys were home 0:04:08.480 --> 0:04:11.720 by then. What did this wood buyer see when he 0:04:11.800 --> 0:04:14.280 turned up? That's that's what I want to know. Because 0:04:14.320 --> 0:04:17.039 he couldn't communicate with David Simmons, or he or she 0:04:17.240 --> 0:04:19.800 it could have been a female couldn't communicate with him 0:04:19.800 --> 0:04:23.000 because his phone wasn't working. That's why he was communicating 0:04:23.040 --> 0:04:26.320 with Amy, and Amy's trying to get the message through. 0:04:26.360 --> 0:04:28.640 So I think I think police should be looking for 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:29.320 this wood buyer. 0:04:29.520 --> 0:04:32.039 Do you know if the wood buyer has ever been contacted? 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:33.840 I mean, has there ever been a statement, a formal 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:37.560 statement taken from the wood buyer? No? No, At the moment, 0:04:37.600 --> 0:04:38.839 it's a complete mystery figure. 0:04:38.960 --> 0:04:40.960 Yes, it is a complete mystery figure. But I think 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:43.400 that new task force, if they're going to be doing 0:04:43.440 --> 0:04:47.120 their job properly and comprehensively, they need to find this 0:04:47.160 --> 0:04:47.640 wood buyer. 0:04:47.839 --> 0:04:50.200 Wouldn't the wood buyer's number be on Amy's phone? 0:04:50.320 --> 0:04:53.240 Correct? I gather they still have it, I mean more 0:04:53.279 --> 0:04:55.599 the family have it, but maybe they should be getting 0:04:55.720 --> 0:04:58.520 hold of it because obviously, as you know, they missed 0:04:58.560 --> 0:05:00.400 the photo with the bruises too. 0:05:00.800 --> 0:05:03.840 Mainly they did they did that was in the case 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:07.680 of photos on her phone that we found and they 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:10.440 said they'd lost it. It's interesting, isn't it. There's a 0:05:10.480 --> 0:05:13.080 few different things, and to be fair, I mean, there 0:05:13.080 --> 0:05:16.440 may be different things. I'm hoping, fingers crossed, there maybe 0:05:16.520 --> 0:05:18.599 a lot of different things that this new team, this 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.240 new task for us, is looking at behind the scenes 0:05:21.279 --> 0:05:23.200 they don't want us to know about and they don't 0:05:23.200 --> 0:05:26.440 want other people to be aware of at all. And 0:05:26.480 --> 0:05:29.919 that's a good thing. That's you know, obviously an investigative 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.320 strategy that they may be employing that you know, you 0:05:33.360 --> 0:05:35.719 can't discuss every aspect of the case. And we hope, 0:05:36.120 --> 0:05:39.880 we hope there may be a range of initiatives that 0:05:39.880 --> 0:05:45.039 that team is performing at the moment that is way 0:05:45.120 --> 0:05:49.760 way beyond what our imagination can conjure up that would 0:05:49.760 --> 0:05:52.920 be helpful. I mean, we do know, for example, we've 0:05:52.960 --> 0:05:55.400 come into contact Allison, as you know, in the last 0:05:55.440 --> 0:05:57.080 couple of days, we've come into contact with a couple 0:05:57.120 --> 0:06:02.080 of people who were so of Amy's, were friends of Amy's, 0:06:02.839 --> 0:06:07.279 and they have told us that the police have taken statements, 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.240 been back to them again. This new team has been 0:06:10.279 --> 0:06:13.560 back to them, taken new statements from them because they 0:06:13.600 --> 0:06:17.720 had contact with Amy in literally in the days that 0:06:19.120 --> 0:06:23.279 before she died, and that was as late or as 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:27.840 recently as of second week as September, not that long 0:06:27.880 --> 0:06:31.120 ago at all, so that's very heartening. I was really 0:06:31.200 --> 0:06:33.680 heartened to hear that. I thought, Okay, well, they've been 0:06:33.720 --> 0:06:37.640 doing the footwork. They've been knocking on the doors, going 0:06:37.720 --> 0:06:40.760 to people, trying to get fresh background on what happened 0:06:40.800 --> 0:06:44.400 in the hours and days leading up to Amy's death. 0:06:44.640 --> 0:06:46.240 So that gives me some hope. 0:06:46.400 --> 0:06:49.600 Another bit of information that I've come across in Perth 0:06:50.000 --> 0:06:54.120 that I wasn't aware of until today is Shelley Stanley. 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:58.840 Them finding Shelley Stanley because she has more information. 0:06:59.040 --> 0:07:00.000 Who is Shelley's. 0:07:00.680 --> 0:07:05.160 Shelley Stanley is the or friend, an old friend of Amy's. 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:10.200 She only knew Amy because her former partner was friends 0:07:10.200 --> 0:07:14.680 with David Simmons. So what had happened is they used 0:07:14.680 --> 0:07:16.440 to go out and I remember I don't know if 0:07:16.480 --> 0:07:20.640 he recalled, but anyway, she remembers the way that he 0:07:20.760 --> 0:07:22.920 used to talk to her and was quite defensive. She 0:07:22.960 --> 0:07:25.920 put in a statement to police about that, and he 0:07:26.480 --> 0:07:30.880 accused her when she was trying to defend Amy, he 0:07:30.920 --> 0:07:33.640 accused her of being or lesbian or something, you know, 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.840 like it was that sort of yeah, she said, and 0:07:36.920 --> 0:07:40.280 I don't I'm going to tell you. I'm going to 0:07:40.280 --> 0:07:42.240 do it in two ways in cases legaled out. So 0:07:42.320 --> 0:07:45.360 first of all, she told a story about what the 0:07:45.400 --> 0:07:49.480 boys used to get up to involving hunting. Now, what 0:07:49.600 --> 0:07:50.960 I can tell you is that I used to go 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:53.880 pig hunting with it with just a knife, the three 0:07:53.920 --> 0:07:56.640 of them, so that that's already on the record. But 0:07:56.800 --> 0:08:00.320 what I wasn't aware of is that they would film 0:08:00.360 --> 0:08:03.160 themselves slaughtering the pigs and then head back home and 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:07.000 make the girls watch it with them while they bring beers. 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:08.760 Which is a bit their partners. 0:08:09.040 --> 0:08:11.040 Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's a bit strange, right. 0:08:11.440 --> 0:08:13.880 Yeah, I wouldn't think that's that sort of a normal 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.160 fraught autternoon fair for most blokes. 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.320 I think it's significant because we talked about domestic violence, right, 0:08:20.360 --> 0:08:24.120 And the reason I think it's significant is because they 0:08:24.200 --> 0:08:28.320 have evidence of domestic violence witnesses. Even on that day 0:08:28.480 --> 0:08:31.520 that Amy was being you know it was in a 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:36.080 violent physical altercation with David Simmons. 0:08:36.559 --> 0:08:38.880 Well, you know, again to be fair, I mean that's 0:08:38.920 --> 0:08:41.440 what police look at, don't they. That's what they in 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:45.560 their investigative sort of template. They look at patterns of 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:50.240 behavior and they can come from character as well as actions, 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:52.840 can't they. So you know, it's all part of that 0:08:53.160 --> 0:08:55.840 mosaic that makes up the you know, the whole, the 0:08:55.840 --> 0:08:58.000 whole case. There's no question mark is there that it 0:08:58.160 --> 0:09:01.839 was a coercive relationship. I mean we know that from 0:09:02.040 --> 0:09:07.760 first hand evidence given from Amy's mum, from her closest friends, 0:09:08.400 --> 0:09:10.680 from those people around her at various times over the 0:09:10.720 --> 0:09:15.040 sort of the one two preceding years. So I don't think, 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:18.000 I don't think, you know, that's not a question mark 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.760 at all. The question is is how far does that 0:09:20.880 --> 0:09:21.520 behavior go? 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.400 Speaking of David simmons behavior, we saw a bit of 0:09:24.400 --> 0:09:26.880 it this week because this was the week. The reason 0:09:26.920 --> 0:09:29.720 I am in Perth is I came to the court hearing. 0:09:29.800 --> 0:09:32.480 I was hoping to see the court hearing of the 0:09:32.520 --> 0:09:36.720 allegations or the charges against David Simmons, one being the 0:09:36.760 --> 0:09:41.040 most serious being assaulting a public officer, a police officer, 0:09:41.280 --> 0:09:44.120 which he's pleaded not guilty to, also obstruct, which is 0:09:44.280 --> 0:09:47.040 pleaded not guilty to. And there were two others which 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.679 he did I think was disorderly behavior and something else 0:09:50.800 --> 0:09:53.600 a bit more minor that he has pleaded guilty to. 0:09:54.320 --> 0:09:57.920 So lo and behold limb. We were down at the court. 0:09:57.920 --> 0:10:00.800 I was down at the court very early, ready because 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:04.720 obviously last time we were there, he didn't necessarily expect 0:10:04.720 --> 0:10:07.080 this last time, but he came quite early. So I 0:10:07.160 --> 0:10:09.800 was there from seven point thirty waiting for him, and 0:10:10.760 --> 0:10:12.600 he was due to be there by nine o'clock and 0:10:12.640 --> 0:10:13.320 he didn't show up. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:15.680 Didn't turn up, didn't turn up, no a no show. 0:10:15.840 --> 0:10:19.160 Yes, nobody is surprised about that, though. 0:10:19.280 --> 0:10:22.960 Well well, well yeah, okay, I'm still a bit surprised 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:25.560 because it's you know, it's a serious charge. It is 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.679 a serious charge, I mean, assaulting a public officer. And 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:32.560 last time he got a delay when we confronted him 0:10:32.600 --> 0:10:36.240 last time, so this appearance was supposed to be that, 0:10:36.360 --> 0:10:38.880 you know, sort of the ultimate appearance. So what happened 0:10:38.880 --> 0:10:40.800 he didn't front were they court there. 0:10:41.000 --> 0:10:43.760 Court doesn't like that, obviously. It's a waste of resources, time, money, 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:45.920 all that sort of thing. So they issued an arrest 0:10:45.960 --> 0:10:48.679 warrant for him, and that would have been I don't 0:10:48.720 --> 0:10:52.000 know about ten o'clock, eleven o'clock something like that. So 0:10:52.040 --> 0:10:54.000 that was that. It was just like, even if he 0:10:54.000 --> 0:10:56.560 did show up, it wouldn't proceed. So we were informed 0:10:56.600 --> 0:10:58.880 of that and that was the case. So I stuck 0:10:58.960 --> 0:11:05.800 around till about lunchtime, thinking, well, what's the point? I mean, yeah, 0:11:05.880 --> 0:11:07.880 and by that stage everyone had kind of cleared off. 0:11:08.600 --> 0:11:10.920 I wish I had stayed though, because it turns out 0:11:11.040 --> 0:11:14.560 that he did turn up about two fifteen two thirty 0:11:15.480 --> 0:11:20.440 that afternoon, and they just obviously withdrew the arrest warrant 0:11:20.480 --> 0:11:22.880 and rescheduled it for the sixth of January. 0:11:22.960 --> 0:11:25.839 For the sixth of January, so they just push it forward. 0:11:26.040 --> 0:11:27.600 Yeah, so he's got Christmas out. 0:11:27.640 --> 0:11:30.000 So what happens in the interim, as you say, I mean, 0:11:30.080 --> 0:11:32.920 very important. He's pled not guilty, But what happens to 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:37.040 public safety like this is, you know, forget David Simmons 0:11:37.080 --> 0:11:39.840 for a while. I mean, this is another issue. I guess. 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:42.240 I don't want to go too far down a rabbit hole, 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:47.560 but that's the bench warrants. I mean, we're just treating 0:11:47.600 --> 0:11:49.439 the court as a joke, isn't it. 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:53.640 Well, there's no real ramifications, is there. And funnily enough, 0:11:53.679 --> 0:11:55.640 I looked at some of his other charges which you 0:11:56.520 --> 0:12:00.000 would have seen on as well, and some of those 0:12:00.280 --> 0:12:06.000 include driving without a license, fraudulent number plates. You know, 0:12:06.160 --> 0:12:10.840 different cook pretty minor comparatively, like we're not talking about 0:12:11.720 --> 0:12:15.800 assault of public officer is a serious offense. But you know, 0:12:15.920 --> 0:12:18.280 just bearing in mind that he pleaded not guilty. We 0:12:18.400 --> 0:12:22.880 are aware that he has been convicted of assaulting a 0:12:22.920 --> 0:12:25.480 police officer before, and he served nine months for that. 0:12:25.600 --> 0:12:28.880 Certainly has well, let's just go through a few here 0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:32.840 we go, no authority to drive, disqualified from holding or obtaining, 0:12:33.679 --> 0:12:36.360 used an unlicensed vehicle on a road. See another offense. 0:12:36.840 --> 0:12:39.800 Drove caused or permitted a vehicle with a forged, replica 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.120 or false plate to be driven on a road, Breach 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:44.840 of bail. As you say, assaulting the public officer, that's 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:48.559 the current charge. He's pled, not guilty. Obstructing public officers 0:12:48.960 --> 0:12:53.440 not guilty, that's still to be decided. Disorderly behavior in public. 0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:57.199 Yes, we saw in the next day driving a vehicle. 0:12:57.520 --> 0:12:59.760 I don't know about the number plates, but we do 0:12:59.840 --> 0:13:03.640 not he doesn't have a license, So straight away he's backbreaking, 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.400 aw incredible in everything that I can see, he is 0:13:08.040 --> 0:13:09.359 untouchable incredible. 0:13:10.040 --> 0:13:11.680 So what do we got? Just coming back to the 0:13:11.840 --> 0:13:15.600 sort of important leads that have been given that we 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.280 know of, that we know of, and as I say, 0:13:18.320 --> 0:13:20.760 I hope there's some that we don't know of, but 0:13:21.040 --> 0:13:24.120 the things that have been also communicated to us, Well, 0:13:24.200 --> 0:13:27.720 let's go back to the Joshua Brdon information because surely 0:13:27.760 --> 0:13:30.560 that's going to be a focal point for the new 0:13:30.640 --> 0:13:34.760 team that's been put together to reinvestigate the case. Wouldn't 0:13:34.800 --> 0:13:36.080 you think, just off the top of your head, that 0:13:36.120 --> 0:13:39.319 information about Joshua Brdon that was given by a third 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.280 party is very interesting. 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.640 It is. There are a couple of things with that one. 0:13:44.240 --> 0:13:47.480 Joshua Brden maintains that he did not say anything like 0:13:47.520 --> 0:13:49.400 this and that he wasn't there on the. 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:51.880 Night, so he insists it's just rubbish. 0:13:51.920 --> 0:13:54.480 But in this case, there is also a message to 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:59.400 the person who remembers him saying this, which says in 0:13:59.480 --> 0:14:04.120 twenty eight says he recalls finding his best mate's wife, 0:14:04.480 --> 0:14:06.840 who was like a sister to him, with her quote 0:14:07.000 --> 0:14:07.760 head blown off. 0:14:07.960 --> 0:14:11.000 Everything he said to the coroner and the police. He 0:14:11.040 --> 0:14:12.960 wasn't supposed to be there. He's not there. 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.560 Yes, well, he maintains he wasn't there. But as we 0:14:16.800 --> 0:14:19.760 pointed out in the timeline, there is issues with the 0:14:19.760 --> 0:14:22.680 timeline because he says he recalls getting a message at 0:14:22.680 --> 0:14:25.400 four forty seven or four forty eight from his mate 0:14:25.440 --> 0:14:29.160 Kid when he was leaving, But then he also says 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:33.440 in his evidence that he saw David Simmons put the 0:14:33.440 --> 0:14:35.920 girls in the car, but that didn't happen until after five. 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:38.640 Amy died around ten past five. 0:14:39.040 --> 0:14:42.000 Yeah, the timeline doesn't make sense for him. But also 0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.400 if he writes that in a message, that doesn't make 0:14:44.440 --> 0:14:46.920 sense either. How can he not get that out of 0:14:46.920 --> 0:14:52.320 his head? That visual picture of Amy as he puts it, 0:14:52.440 --> 0:14:55.360 her head blown off if he's not there to see it. 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:00.360 There is a lot of inconsistencies with the evidence. And yeah, 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:04.080 as would be in a lot of cases, right, I mean, 0:15:04.080 --> 0:15:06.240 this isn't rare, no. 0:15:06.160 --> 0:15:07.920 No, this is where this is how cases go. 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.920 Well, that's right, but as you know, with briefs of evidence, 0:15:11.360 --> 0:15:13.680 they'll do up a whole brief and then they'll put 0:15:13.720 --> 0:15:16.480 a little cover sheet on the front and say dear 0:15:16.880 --> 0:15:21.000 Director of Public Prosecutions, we believe there's enough evidence to 0:15:21.000 --> 0:15:23.880 go forward, or we don't believe there's enough evidence to 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:29.360 go forward, and then that's it. How much power or 0:15:29.400 --> 0:15:33.000 influence does that little cover letter have do you think? 0:15:33.080 --> 0:15:34.920 Oh? I think a lot, Yeah, I think a lot. 0:15:43.080 --> 0:15:46.440 These to me are the indisputable facts, the factual based 0:15:46.440 --> 0:15:50.840 evidence not circumstantial by three biomechanical experts in Amy's death 0:15:51.240 --> 0:15:54.240 was highly consistent with her not killing herself and someone 0:15:54.280 --> 0:15:59.160 else shooting her. Every crime reconstruction has limitations, but this 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.520 is also based on her capacity to shoot herself with 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.640 either hand and the people that were actually there, which 0:16:04.920 --> 0:16:08.640 I still find quite troubling that more weight isn't given 0:16:08.720 --> 0:16:12.720 to those three uniform police officers who were there first 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:16.920 on scene had an argument with the detectives, saying that 0:16:16.960 --> 0:16:19.120 she wouldn't have been able to shoot herself like that 0:16:19.240 --> 0:16:22.080 was there, you know. So I just still think and 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:26.280 that's been backed up by the biomechanical experts. So that's 0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:30.160 new evidence that previously not considered. Photo of Amy with 0:16:30.200 --> 0:16:34.280 bruises around her neck crimary construction by Scott rohder Renee 0:16:34.400 --> 0:16:39.240 mckeirne's snitch message on Amy's anniversary with David Simmons, not 0:16:39.320 --> 0:16:41.640 as a couple, but in his presence when she posted 0:16:41.640 --> 0:16:45.160 on Rachel's Facebook page on the anniversary of Amy's death. 0:16:45.520 --> 0:16:49.080 Suicideologist evidence on how likely or unlikely Amy's death was 0:16:49.080 --> 0:16:51.560 a suicide, taking in all information of the pack car, 0:16:51.720 --> 0:16:53.960 daughter strapped in the backseat, where she was found, method 0:16:53.960 --> 0:16:57.760 of death, etc. A doctor or mental health expert providing 0:16:57.800 --> 0:17:01.720 evidence to discuss how extensive the use of cetellopran is 0:17:01.800 --> 0:17:04.760 and how common the docy Jamie was or uncommon. They 0:17:04.760 --> 0:17:07.600 should also discuss the side effects of someone who suddenly 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:11.640 stops taking cetelepran and the effects of methamphetamine and excessive 0:17:11.680 --> 0:17:15.920 alcohol use on a person's behavior. Statements from several witnesses 0:17:15.920 --> 0:17:19.320 saying Bridon says he never forgot and also his message 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:20.199 in relation to that. 0:17:20.600 --> 0:17:24.359 That's significant, right, Oh yeah, yeah, well absolutely you'd think so, 0:17:24.400 --> 0:17:26.919 will you? Now? Look, if people want to send us 0:17:26.960 --> 0:17:28.160 a letter, what's the address? 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:31.600 It is the Truth about Amy or one Word at 0:17:31.640 --> 0:17:33.560 seven dot com dot AU. 0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:37.760 Okay, So, Evelyn says, Hi, guys, I've been listening to 0:17:37.800 --> 0:17:42.040 the podcast as episodes are released each week. Everlyn says 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:46.720 I was home when my father killed my mum. Pretty 0:17:46.760 --> 0:17:47.480 horrific story. 0:17:47.480 --> 0:17:51.000 It is so that the home she's in is where 0:17:51.040 --> 0:17:52.160 her father killed her mum. 0:17:52.520 --> 0:17:54.360 She says. We are about to hit the twenty three 0:17:54.440 --> 0:17:57.720 year mark this Saturday, twenty third anniversary, and although a 0:17:57.720 --> 0:17:59.720 lot of time has passed, I can tell you my 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:05.280 mom wasn't fighting my dad. She was begging. My mum 0:18:05.400 --> 0:18:09.080 was pleading. She was offering the future graduations and weddings 0:18:09.080 --> 0:18:12.399 of their kids, grandkids that have one day, whatever she 0:18:12.440 --> 0:18:16.639 could to de escalate the situation. We know leaving is 0:18:16.640 --> 0:18:19.080 the most dangerous time for a woman, and not only that, 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:23.040 but my mum and Amy both had kids they needed 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:26.000 to protect too. And thank you Evelyn for sharing that 0:18:26.119 --> 0:18:29.720 with us. I can imagine it's been pretty difficult for 0:18:29.760 --> 0:18:29.919 you for. 0:18:30.080 --> 0:18:32.919 It's so sad. Oh, Evelyn, thank you so much for 0:18:32.960 --> 0:18:36.480 sharing that with us. And I am just horrified for 0:18:36.600 --> 0:18:39.919 what has happened. And I'm glad that you're okay, and 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:44.439 I feel my condolence is to your mom. It's just 0:18:45.240 --> 0:18:49.000 a horrible thing. And I find there's a bit of 0:18:49.000 --> 0:18:54.640 double standard sometimes when you're interpreting the evidence that in 0:18:54.680 --> 0:18:59.760 that case it's turned against Amy in a way that 0:19:00.320 --> 0:19:04.080 fits the narrative as opposed to just what is more likely. 0:19:04.119 --> 0:19:06.480 And that's why I think it's really really important that 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:10.880 you have external experts, you have people who are qualified 0:19:11.000 --> 0:19:14.320 in these areas rather than anyone, because it's not well 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:17.679 with everyone, right. Everyone has their own they're brought up 0:19:17.680 --> 0:19:21.200 in a culture or an environment, and they have, whether 0:19:21.200 --> 0:19:23.560 they like it or not, they have different ways that 0:19:23.600 --> 0:19:27.680 they interpret things based on their own upbringing. 0:19:27.720 --> 0:19:30.200 And the trouble is too, that a lot of people 0:19:30.240 --> 0:19:32.560 put themselves in this position. When they're thinking about it, 0:19:32.600 --> 0:19:35.439 they think about what they would do, and that's really 0:19:35.520 --> 0:19:40.320 that's tragically wrong, Alison, because that's the reason you need 0:19:40.320 --> 0:19:44.560 these experts is because they are trained and proficient at 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:49.359 thinking about what that particular person physically is capable of 0:19:49.560 --> 0:19:54.399 and also culturally mentally. You know, according to a lot 0:19:54.440 --> 0:19:58.320 of things gender included would potentially do not do you 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:00.239 know what I mean? Not put your own template us 0:20:00.640 --> 0:20:03.640 somebody externally. So there's a lot of different variables, isn't there, 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:06.600 Speaking of which you know, what I am looking forward 0:20:06.600 --> 0:20:08.480 to down the track is to have a chat to 0:20:08.680 --> 0:20:12.320 Laura Richards. She's a crime analyst of some note isn't 0:20:12.320 --> 0:20:15.520 she based overseas, But she's been following this case. 0:20:15.640 --> 0:20:18.439 Yes, very closely, as she did with Marion Barter. And 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:23.680 she is amazing and she's very good in the criminal 0:20:23.720 --> 0:20:28.720 behavioral and analytical sphere, in certainly with Rick Blum in 0:20:28.760 --> 0:20:31.679 Marion Barter's case. You know, just the way you'd answer 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.880 questions and things like that, and as you always say, 0:20:34.920 --> 0:20:38.040 no skin in the game, and that's really important too, write. 0:20:38.760 --> 0:20:43.800 I really do find the external analysts and you know, 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:46.600 they're putting their name, their reputation, everything on the line. 0:20:47.680 --> 0:20:49.720 They want to get it right and they have the 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:52.960 experience to do so that. You know, when I was 0:20:52.960 --> 0:20:57.399 talking about the suicidologists, right, we can talk about you know, 0:20:57.560 --> 0:21:00.399 police officers come across suicide all the time, right, so 0:21:00.560 --> 0:21:04.000 do lots of us in journalism. But the reality is 0:21:04.400 --> 0:21:08.600 these sociologists, like what Michael Barnes said, there are hundreds 0:21:08.600 --> 0:21:11.760 of thousands of cases that they look at and the 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:15.560 same with Laura. So Laura is going to be amazing. 0:21:16.160 --> 0:21:21.760 And you know her credibility, the involvement she's had with 0:21:22.840 --> 0:21:27.720 you know, implementing or getting implemented coercive control laws in Australia. 0:21:28.000 --> 0:21:30.760 I mean, she's just really a lot of influence. 0:21:30.880 --> 0:21:33.080 She's brilliant. I mean I think you know, she'd probably 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:38.600 be one of the best criminal behavioral analysts going around. Absolutely, So, No, 0:21:38.720 --> 0:21:41.800 that'll be fascinating. I'm really looking forward to that. We 0:21:41.800 --> 0:21:44.560 should mention again to that petition because it's really if 0:21:44.560 --> 0:21:47.360 someone's listening and they haven't signed it, well. 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:50.680 I was, I'm thinking maybe I was going to mention 0:21:50.920 --> 0:21:54.760 that now that it is going to the DPP. Depending 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:58.240 on what happens there, we may need to like if 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.240 the DPP, who knows what's going to happen, right, Well, 0:22:01.240 --> 0:22:04.240 that's the problem. Yeah, I mean, that's the thing that 0:22:04.280 --> 0:22:06.480 we still have. But but there are different things that 0:22:06.640 --> 0:22:11.200 will update on. What we do need to tell people about, though, 0:22:11.520 --> 0:22:14.680 is the Silent March coming up organized by the Center 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:18.440 for Women's Safety in Perth on the twenty fifth of November, 0:22:18.640 --> 0:22:21.800 the thirty fourth March against Domestic and Family Violence. 0:22:22.200 --> 0:22:26.120