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Speaker 1: Now. A bit earlier this morning, we were talking to

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Speaker 1: the Shadow Minister for Housing, Bill Yam, because we learned

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Speaker 1: yesterday during instruments that some public housing weightlists have blown

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Speaker 1: out up to ten years apparently for units. The weightlists

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Speaker 1: probably aren't a huge surprise though, to my next guest,

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Speaker 1: who's joined me on the show previously to talk about

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Speaker 1: this very topic, it is Peter McMillan, the CEO or

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Speaker 1: the executive officer I should say, of NT Shelter.

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Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Peter, Good morning Katie.

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Speaker 1: How are you not too bad? Peter? As I say,

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Speaker 1: I reckon, these weightlists are probably not a huge surprise

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Speaker 1: to you. It's something you've been concerned about for an

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Speaker 1: awfully long time.

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Speaker 2: Unfortunately not Katie. You know, these numbers are an absolute shocker.

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Speaker 2: We're now up to basically five six thousand people rather

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Speaker 2: on the weight list, which is three times a number

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Speaker 2: we had back in two thousand. So what we've really

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Speaker 2: seen over the last twenty odd years is stock completely

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Speaker 2: being sold off or knocked down, all repurposed. We used

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Speaker 2: to have over nine thousand urban public housing assets back

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Speaker 2: in ninety three, and today we've got in terms of

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Speaker 2: government owned buildings that they control just around five thousand,

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Speaker 2: so it's a twenty nine percent reduction in stock. So

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Speaker 2: a little wonder I think that we've seen homelesses continue

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Speaker 2: to rise and wait lists continue to rise. I mean,

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Speaker 2: we used to have just two thousand applications on the

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Speaker 2: public housing weightlists back in ne year two thousand and

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Speaker 2: now it's it's six thousand. It's balloooning, completely out of control.

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Speaker 2: It So it really is a growing crisis that has

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Speaker 2: no end insight and it's completely got away.

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Speaker 1: And I think the tough thing at the moment is that,

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Speaker 1: you know, quite often when people think of public housing,

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Speaker 1: they you know, I don't know exactly what they think

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Speaker 1: in terms of who may need public housing. But we've

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Speaker 1: got inflation rising dramatically, We've got the cost you know,

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Speaker 1: like the cost of living across so many different areas

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Speaker 1: is rising so dramatically that I think that there's potentially

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Speaker 1: more territories on the cusp of actually needing public housing

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Speaker 1: and actually needing support them.

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Speaker 2: What a lot of us realize, you know, it's hurting

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Speaker 2: a lot of Australians at the moment, but it's hurting

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Speaker 2: Northern Territory territorians are particularly hard. Each year. For the

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Speaker 2: last ten years, we've seen a number of people that

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Speaker 2: present for help from our member organizations grow by four percent.

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Speaker 2: In the last twelve months there's been a four and

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Speaker 2: a half percent increase, and nationally that number has been

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Speaker 2: pretty stagnant. Some states have seen a decline. We're on

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Speaker 2: the up and up here and we simply don't have

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Speaker 2: anywhere enough housing four people who need permanent housing. It's

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Speaker 2: been a long standing problem and there hasn't been a

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Speaker 2: plan really to address that. We hear about announcements where

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Speaker 2: there might be ten houses here or five houses there.

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Speaker 2: I mean any additional house Katie is welcome, of course,

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Speaker 2: can make a difference to a family, but we talk

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Speaker 2: him at hundreds and thousands of houses we need and encouragingly,

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Speaker 2: the new Housing and Homelessess Minister, Minister Llans has confirmed

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Speaker 2: that the new government will develop a national Housing and

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Speaker 2: Homeless of strategy. I mean, the need for that can't

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Speaker 2: be underestimated, can't be overstated, is a huge need. I mean, really,

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Speaker 2: the situation is like watching a ship that's drifting off

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Speaker 2: further out and a tide and getting further and further

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Speaker 2: away from us without a plan as to how we're

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Speaker 2: going to salvage it, and the further it gets away

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Speaker 2: from us, the more expensive it's going to be to

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Speaker 2: tackle it.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well this is the thing. You've got to see

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Speaker 1: some action in this space. But it's pretty unbelievable to think,

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Speaker 1: you know that we're now in twenty twenty two and

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Speaker 1: public housing stocks have reduced, you know, twenty nine percent

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Speaker 1: on what they were around around the year two thousand. Yes,

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Speaker 1: you know, the demand is increasing and I think that

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Speaker 1: as well, Peter. You know, I've spoken before about you know,

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Speaker 1: about the need for housing too when it comes to

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Speaker 1: people moving to the Northern Territory for work and people

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Speaker 1: looking for rental properties, the cost of rent going up.

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Speaker 1: So even when you step away from that public housing

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Speaker 1: situation and look more at our workforce shortage and the

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Speaker 1: impact that it could have.

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Speaker 2: Then absolutely it's really dire with such a huge lift

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Speaker 2: in the cost of living almost overnight, with inflation now

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Speaker 2: upon us, with rising prices for petrol at the bows,

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Speaker 2: or with rising fuel costs and other costs for individuals,

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Speaker 2: for families that we're already doing it tough, it really

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Speaker 2: is a terrible situation also for homeowners, for that matter,

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Speaker 2: that those who are trying to pay off a mortgage

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Speaker 2: with rising interest rates and levels of debt, that's also

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Speaker 2: a group that can potentially be vulnerable. So there are

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Speaker 2: a lot of Australians in a range of situations. They

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Speaker 2: are not all people that we see sleeping rough They

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Speaker 2: can be people that are sleeping in a caravan park,

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Speaker 2: or in a neighbor's house, or in a tent or

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Speaker 2: in a car. There's a range of situations and all

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Speaker 2: we're really calling for is to get a plan. Get

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Speaker 2: a plan for our urban areas because we're watching it

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Speaker 2: blow out. I mean, I've been on this program with

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Speaker 2: Ukadie before we talked about this as a growing problem.

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Speaker 2: It's showing those signs of abating and little wonder until

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Speaker 2: we get a plan that's really owned by the territory

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Speaker 2: government in conjunction with the federal government and other partners

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Speaker 2: who can bring money to the table to get houses

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Speaker 2: built that we need. I mean, we're not even having

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Speaker 2: the conversations yet around what our communities look like and

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Speaker 2: how public housing will be built and done better because

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Speaker 2: we haven't even got a plan to meet the gap,

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Speaker 2: which the NT government itself says is ten thousand to

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Speaker 2: twelve thousand houses, So what is the plan? You can

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Speaker 2: identify the problem. You need to have a plan or

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Speaker 2: it's not going to happen.

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Speaker 1: And so then we've also had a situation obviously where

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Speaker 1: our Minister for Housing has changed was Kate Warden. It's

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Speaker 1: now moved on to I believe Selena Rubo's portfolio of

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Speaker 1: you had the opportunity to meet with her and you know,

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Speaker 1: talk about some of this.

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Speaker 2: I'm really looking forward to meeting with Selena Ubo tomorrow morning.

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Speaker 2: And we do have a new Chief Minister as well

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Speaker 2: and a new Federal minister, so we are always encouraged

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Speaker 2: when there's I guess a change in brigade. We really

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Speaker 2: enjoyed working with Minster Warden and she really did kick

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Speaker 2: along the community housing strategy, which was very positive. But

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Speaker 2: that's not going to deliver houses at the scale that

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Speaker 2: we need anytime soon. So we need a plan for

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Speaker 2: our urban communities and until we get that, we're just

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Speaker 2: going to continue to see a rise and rise and

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Speaker 2: rise in numbers on these lists. And these are all

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Speaker 2: families that are waiting, as you point out, up to

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Speaker 2: ten years for a house. Just not good enough.

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Speaker 1: No, it's an awfully, awfully long time and it will

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Speaker 1: mean you know, ultimately that if people can't find those times,

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Speaker 1: we will probably lose them from the territory. So it's

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Speaker 1: a tough one.

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Speaker 2: It is tough, and we need to be creative with solutions.

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Speaker 2: And at the moment down in Ola Springs, we're seeing

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Speaker 2: services that are having a big rise in people coming

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Speaker 2: forward because of cold weather. And there are currently sixty

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Speaker 2: seven vacant properties down in our springs, sixty seven public

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Speaker 2: housing properties that are sitting empty while people are out

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Speaker 2: in the river beds without enough blankets and clothing. It's

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Speaker 2: just disgraceful. A South Australia they have a code Blue

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Speaker 2: where they bring people inside when it gets to five

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Speaker 2: degrees or less over a number of nights. We have

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Speaker 2: nothing like that in the Northern territory. So even if

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Speaker 2: we don't have enough permanent housing, we need to think

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Speaker 2: about people who are homeless and waiting for housing to

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Speaker 2: put them in a safe position.

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Speaker 1: Peter, what do you reckon it is that some of

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Speaker 1: these public housing, you know, these homes that are sitting

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Speaker 1: waiting for repairs, are waiting astronomical periods of time.

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Speaker 2: In some cases, it's a it's a culture that's continued

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Speaker 2: to grow over the last twenty years. So back around

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Speaker 2: the turn of the century, the Department of Housing was

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Speaker 2: able to turn around vacant properties around thirty days to

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Speaker 2: forty days. That's what the data shows they could do that,

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Speaker 2: and it's just steadily blown out to one hundred and

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Speaker 2: thirty days now on average. And I know there can

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Speaker 2: be challenges with getting trade sometimes and there's a lot

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Speaker 2: of work going on. I get that, but they could

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Speaker 2: do it before and with a bit more will and

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Speaker 2: effort and urgency and focus, they should be able to

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Speaker 2: get that down. They have got a target of seventy

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Speaker 2: five days, which they're nowhere near achieving at the moment.

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Speaker 2: And we've got to remember for people who are working

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Speaker 2: in that area what it actually means. As a family

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Speaker 2: that's waiting another couple of months, three months for a

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Speaker 2: place to get the keys of our home, it's simply

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Speaker 2: I couldn't have Well.

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Speaker 1: Peter McMillan, I always appreciate your time, always appreciate you

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Speaker 1: coming in and having a chat to us. The Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory or NT Shelter Executive Officer, thank you so much

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Speaker 1: for speaking with me today, thank you Katie