1 00:00:00,200 --> 00:00:03,640 Speaker 1: I'm one of those people that needs to do it, 2 00:00:03,680 --> 00:00:06,440 Speaker 1: needs hard and fast rules. Yeah, otherwise I find myself 3 00:00:06,480 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 1: negotiating with myself and that's exhausting. 4 00:00:12,800 --> 00:00:15,240 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 5 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,720 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 6 00:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,800 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, Doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 7 00:00:20,840 --> 00:00:24,520 Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 8 00:00:24,560 --> 00:00:27,880 Speaker 2: finding ways to optimize my work day. For the month 9 00:00:27,920 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 2: of January, I'll be dipping into the archives of twenty 10 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:35,559 Speaker 2: eighteen to replace some of my favorite episodes. First up, 11 00:00:35,760 --> 00:00:38,400 Speaker 2: it's a chat I had with Mia Friedman midway through 12 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 2: last year. Mea Friedman is the co founder and creative 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,360 Speaker 2: director of The Mom and mea women's network, Australia's largest 14 00:00:45,360 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 2: digital women's media company. They reach four million women per 15 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,960 Speaker 2: month and also have the world's largest podcast network, with 16 00:00:53,120 --> 00:00:57,040 Speaker 2: eight shows that reach millions of women. As many Australian 17 00:00:57,080 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 2: listeners would know, Mia was the youngest editor of Australian 18 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,680 Speaker 2: Cosmo at twenty four years old back in the mid nineties, 19 00:01:04,120 --> 00:01:07,119 Speaker 2: and because I was one of many loyal Cosmo readers 20 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:10,280 Speaker 2: as a teenager, I feel like I've grown up with Mia. 21 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: I've also lapped up all of her books, and I 22 00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,920 Speaker 2: just love how she speaks so honestly and in a 23 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:20,240 Speaker 2: way that is so raw about her life. I personally 24 00:01:20,280 --> 00:01:23,000 Speaker 2: found it fascinating to sit down with Mea and learn 25 00:01:23,080 --> 00:01:26,360 Speaker 2: more about how she structures her days and the routines 26 00:01:26,360 --> 00:01:29,399 Speaker 2: that she had, And I particularly loved hearing about her 27 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:33,000 Speaker 2: methods for overcoming procrastination, which I think every listener can 28 00:01:33,040 --> 00:01:35,800 Speaker 2: benefit from. If you want to learn more about Mia, 29 00:01:35,840 --> 00:01:39,200 Speaker 2: you can find her at Miafreedman dot com and now 30 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:41,960 Speaker 2: over to Miya to find out about how she works. 31 00:01:42,560 --> 00:01:44,160 Speaker 2: So Maya, it's so good to be sitting down and 32 00:01:44,240 --> 00:01:44,920 Speaker 2: chatting with you. 33 00:01:44,959 --> 00:01:45,720 Speaker 3: Thanks for having me. 34 00:01:46,160 --> 00:01:48,960 Speaker 2: I would love to start by you thinking about the 35 00:01:49,040 --> 00:01:50,720 Speaker 2: last day that you had where you got to the 36 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:53,560 Speaker 2: end of it and you're like, oh my goodness, I 37 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,280 Speaker 2: got so much done today. Can you think of a 38 00:01:56,360 --> 00:01:56,960 Speaker 2: day like that? 39 00:01:59,120 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: Maybe in the nineties. One of the exhilarating but exhausting 40 00:02:05,560 --> 00:02:08,040 Speaker 1: things about working in digital media is that you are 41 00:02:08,120 --> 00:02:11,840 Speaker 1: never done with digital media, both as a consumer and 42 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:15,040 Speaker 1: as a creator. You never get to the end of 43 00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:17,920 Speaker 1: scrolling through your Facebook feed, you never look at all 44 00:02:17,919 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 1: the pages on the internet and read all the articles 45 00:02:19,880 --> 00:02:21,160 Speaker 1: and watch all the videos and listen to all the 46 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,000 Speaker 1: podcasts that you want to listen to, and as a creator, 47 00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,080 Speaker 1: you never finish creating all the content. Like if I 48 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:30,760 Speaker 1: could sort of stretch time, there are a thousand things 49 00:02:30,760 --> 00:02:32,920 Speaker 1: I'd like to do and complete today which I won't, 50 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,320 Speaker 1: And I guess all I can ever see is all 51 00:02:35,360 --> 00:02:37,440 Speaker 1: the things that I didn't get to do each day. 52 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 3: So I think that that's something that is a little 53 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,919 Speaker 3: bit rare in my world. And certainly when you're running 54 00:02:46,919 --> 00:02:49,639 Speaker 3: a business, there's always more to do. 55 00:02:50,080 --> 00:02:50,840 Speaker 2: There, absolutely is. 56 00:02:50,880 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 3: There's always more to do. 57 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,160 Speaker 1: So that feeling of sad itself, you know, wow, I 58 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: had a great day to I often have a great day, 59 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:59,560 Speaker 1: but I got so much to do today I don't 60 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 1: That's not a feeling I'm familiar with. 61 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:05,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I'm curious how that works because you're wearing 62 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:08,160 Speaker 2: a lot of different hats here. You're a business owner, 63 00:03:08,240 --> 00:03:10,560 Speaker 2: you are the content director of Mum and Me. You're 64 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 2: a writer, you're a podcaster, and I'm curious, like you're 65 00:03:14,400 --> 00:03:17,600 Speaker 2: you're balancing I guess a lot of creative work with 66 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:21,440 Speaker 2: also just trying to make a business run with one 67 00:03:21,520 --> 00:03:24,480 Speaker 2: hundred people in it. And I'm really curious with your 68 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: creative work, and particularly when you've got a book on 69 00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:30,280 Speaker 2: the go. And I loved work Strife, Balance, you loved 70 00:03:30,320 --> 00:03:31,000 Speaker 2: all your books. 71 00:03:31,400 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 3: I'm not sure at least had an end. Yes, books 72 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:35,480 Speaker 3: like that. 73 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, pressing send to my publisher, that was probably the 74 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:41,240 Speaker 1: last time I felt complete. But then you know there 75 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:42,720 Speaker 1: are going to be corrections, and then you've got to 76 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,480 Speaker 1: be out there spreaking it. And so even that wasn't finished. 77 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:47,240 Speaker 1: But at least I did get a finished book that 78 00:03:47,360 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: sort of landed at one point. Yeah. 79 00:03:49,520 --> 00:03:51,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, And I'd love for you to go back in 80 00:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: time to when you're writing that book and plus wearing 81 00:03:54,160 --> 00:03:57,160 Speaker 2: all these other hats, like how does that work? How 82 00:03:57,200 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 2: do you carve out writing time? What does that look 83 00:03:59,280 --> 00:03:59,960 Speaker 2: like in your world? 84 00:04:01,280 --> 00:04:07,400 Speaker 1: You calve literally, you carve time out from people and 85 00:04:07,440 --> 00:04:09,560 Speaker 1: things in your life, and they all suffer. 86 00:04:10,840 --> 00:04:11,760 Speaker 3: To write a book. 87 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 1: You know that there are some people who can take 88 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:17,200 Speaker 1: time from their day job. There are some people that 89 00:04:17,240 --> 00:04:19,160 Speaker 1: it is their day job, but for most of us, 90 00:04:19,160 --> 00:04:21,040 Speaker 1: we write it around the edges of our lives. 91 00:04:21,160 --> 00:04:23,919 Speaker 2: And so then when you're sitting at your laptop to 92 00:04:24,640 --> 00:04:27,480 Speaker 2: write like, how do you get in the zone as 93 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 2: quickly as possible? Can you describe what does that look 94 00:04:30,240 --> 00:04:31,400 Speaker 2: like when you sit down to write? 95 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:32,200 Speaker 3: Great question. 96 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 1: So what it looks like at first is downloading a 97 00:04:34,839 --> 00:04:38,000 Speaker 1: lot of productivity apps. Then there's making sure you've got 98 00:04:38,000 --> 00:04:40,000 Speaker 1: everything backed up, Then there's buying a lot. 99 00:04:39,880 --> 00:04:40,799 Speaker 3: Of post it notes. 100 00:04:41,240 --> 00:04:45,880 Speaker 1: Then so basically I did what I always do and 101 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,680 Speaker 1: a lot of people who are procrastinators do, which is 102 00:04:50,520 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 1: convince yourself that doing all of that stuff is the 103 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:57,920 Speaker 1: same as actually writing the book, but actually it's just 104 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: delaying the writing of the book. So I love writing, 105 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 1: but I hate starting. I love all the projects that 106 00:05:04,320 --> 00:05:06,920 Speaker 1: I do, but I don't like starting many of them. 107 00:05:07,240 --> 00:05:09,919 Speaker 1: I don't even like starting podcast interviews very much. My 108 00:05:10,000 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: favorite part is when i'm a little bit as an interviewer, 109 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,200 Speaker 1: when I'm a little bit through it, like about fifteen 110 00:05:16,240 --> 00:05:18,800 Speaker 1: minutes in, and I'm like, okay, good. 111 00:05:18,839 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 3: Right, we're there. I find starting things very very difficult. 112 00:05:24,040 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 2: So how do you do that? Do you remember how 113 00:05:25,520 --> 00:05:27,600 Speaker 2: you did end up starting work? Strife? Balance? 114 00:05:27,680 --> 00:05:31,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, I think, And the advice that I always give 115 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:36,240 Speaker 1: writers and anyone creative is that you just got to 116 00:05:36,279 --> 00:05:39,720 Speaker 1: do the thing like downloading the apps is not doing 117 00:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,720 Speaker 1: the thing, you know, setting up a vision board and 118 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,040 Speaker 1: setting up your desk or your workspace, that's not doing 119 00:05:46,080 --> 00:05:48,640 Speaker 1: the thing now. For creative people and for writers, that 120 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,320 Speaker 1: is an important part of it because it gives you 121 00:05:51,360 --> 00:05:53,919 Speaker 1: thinking time. My friend Caroline Overington, who's a journalist and 122 00:05:53,920 --> 00:05:56,880 Speaker 1: an author, and she's written I don't know, fifteen books 123 00:05:57,200 --> 00:05:59,800 Speaker 1: while having at least one or two day jobs. As 124 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,960 Speaker 1: a journalist, she has a Monday and she writes every Monday, 125 00:06:05,000 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: and she starts in the morning, and she's to start 126 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:08,480 Speaker 1: when her kids go to school, and she used to 127 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:11,240 Speaker 1: finish when they would come home from school. And she 128 00:06:11,320 --> 00:06:16,760 Speaker 1: was very disciplined about it, but she was always just like, 129 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 1: you just got to do the thing, and you can't 130 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:23,359 Speaker 1: be precious. You've got to not let perfectionism be the 131 00:06:23,480 --> 00:06:28,480 Speaker 1: enemy of done. And I always also say to writers, 132 00:06:30,839 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 1: put some words on a page. Put some words on 133 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:34,600 Speaker 1: a page. But back to Caroline, she would say that 134 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:38,280 Speaker 1: unstacking the dishwasher for a writer is an important part 135 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: of writing because it's when we have so little time 136 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:44,720 Speaker 1: to think anymore. Because every little gap that we used 137 00:06:44,760 --> 00:06:47,520 Speaker 1: to have to think, we now fill with our phones 138 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 1: and distraction. So sometimes doing menial things, whether it's buying 139 00:06:52,279 --> 00:06:54,480 Speaker 1: the post it notes or unstacking the dishrusher, there's an 140 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:56,880 Speaker 1: aspect of procrastination to that, but there's also an aspect 141 00:06:56,920 --> 00:06:59,280 Speaker 1: of thinking time that's really really important, so that when 142 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,200 Speaker 1: you do come down to actually doing the writing, you've 143 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:04,160 Speaker 1: already done some of the thinking. And I think that 144 00:07:04,240 --> 00:07:11,320 Speaker 1: in our modern lifestyles we've lost that ability. But I'm 145 00:07:11,480 --> 00:07:14,160 Speaker 1: always very much of a view that you can edit 146 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:16,119 Speaker 1: words on a page, but you can't edit nothing. 147 00:07:17,320 --> 00:07:20,440 Speaker 3: So just vomit onto a page. Just vomit onto the page. 148 00:07:20,640 --> 00:07:25,000 Speaker 1: And Elizabeth Gilbert, who is a wonderful writer and author, 149 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:32,800 Speaker 1: she says that the way she describes it is that 150 00:07:33,200 --> 00:07:36,200 Speaker 1: you have to just accept that it's not going to 151 00:07:36,200 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: be perfect, and you've got to you know, it's a 152 00:07:38,080 --> 00:07:40,520 Speaker 1: lovely time when you're just imagining the perfect book you're 153 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 1: going to write. Then you've actually got to write the 154 00:07:42,320 --> 00:07:44,080 Speaker 1: book and it's never going to be as good as 155 00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:45,560 Speaker 1: you imagine that it's going to be, and you've got 156 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:46,760 Speaker 1: to be okay with that. 157 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 2: That's interesting, what with the with the getting the word 158 00:07:49,800 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 2: vomit onto the screen, Like what does that look like? 159 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,440 Speaker 2: Do you lock yourself away and go, Okay, I'm here 160 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 2: for an hour. I'm going to crank out this many 161 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 2: words like you like, do you have a goal in mind? 162 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:03,280 Speaker 2: How do you get rid of all the digital distractions? 163 00:08:03,320 --> 00:08:03,840 Speaker 2: What does that look like? 164 00:08:03,880 --> 00:08:04,840 Speaker 3: I wish I could say I did. 165 00:08:05,320 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 1: I think that sometimes I have to sneak up on 166 00:08:08,640 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: myself to write. So I think that by going, oh, 167 00:08:14,440 --> 00:08:17,960 Speaker 1: I've only got fifteen minutes before I have to be 168 00:08:18,640 --> 00:08:20,800 Speaker 1: at work or go out to dinner or whatever it is, 169 00:08:21,160 --> 00:08:23,560 Speaker 1: and you just go, I'll just quickly write it and 170 00:08:23,560 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: then it doesn't feel so daunting. I think that a 171 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:28,360 Speaker 1: big mistake that people make is going I'm going to 172 00:08:28,400 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: write every day for eight hours. 173 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:30,280 Speaker 2: You know. 174 00:08:30,280 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: Elizabeth Gilbert says you shouldn't be writing for more than 175 00:08:33,040 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 1: a couple of hours every day. Now. Some people don't 176 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:37,280 Speaker 1: have that luxury, Like my friend Caroline. She had a 177 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:39,440 Speaker 1: day a week to write and she had to write 178 00:08:39,520 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: in that day, and sometimes it would be a good 179 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:43,600 Speaker 1: day and sometimes it would be not a good day. 180 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,679 Speaker 3: But that's all she had. So it's creativity is. 181 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,280 Speaker 1: What you want to what you want to say in 182 00:08:54,320 --> 00:08:57,080 Speaker 1: the time you have to say it, and that's crucial 183 00:08:57,120 --> 00:09:00,000 Speaker 1: because had I had more time, I could have written 184 00:09:00,080 --> 00:09:01,920 Speaker 1: better book. But I didn't have more time. That was 185 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:03,480 Speaker 1: the time that I had. And I think that one 186 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:05,600 Speaker 1: of the hardest things about writing a book is long deadlines. 187 00:09:05,640 --> 00:09:07,600 Speaker 1: For me, I'm very bad with long deadlines. I'm better 188 00:09:07,640 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: with shorter deadlines. And I'm working on a new project 189 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: at the moment at Mum and Me are called Lady Startup, 190 00:09:13,360 --> 00:09:16,560 Speaker 1: where I'm putting together courses for women who either are 191 00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,000 Speaker 1: running their own businesses or want to be running their 192 00:09:19,000 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: own businesses. And because I've only got a self imposed deadline, 193 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:24,880 Speaker 1: I don't have an external deadline of a publisher or 194 00:09:24,920 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 1: a newspaper deadline or anything like that, it's on me. 195 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:35,200 Speaker 1: So I'm finding that really hard to motivate myself to 196 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:36,520 Speaker 1: get to get it done. 197 00:09:36,920 --> 00:09:40,800 Speaker 2: Do you have most like daily habits. I've heard that 198 00:09:40,840 --> 00:09:45,080 Speaker 2: you love a good ritual routine. What are some of 199 00:09:45,120 --> 00:09:47,079 Speaker 2: the things that you do, maybe on a daily or 200 00:09:47,120 --> 00:09:50,600 Speaker 2: weekly basis that you feel just help you get through 201 00:09:50,640 --> 00:09:54,280 Speaker 2: the day, better, achieve more, and overcome some of the 202 00:09:54,679 --> 00:09:59,719 Speaker 2: hurdles like starting things and hitting it like internally driven deadlines. 203 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, so a lot. 204 00:10:01,880 --> 00:10:04,320 Speaker 1: Of it for me is just about making sure my 205 00:10:04,400 --> 00:10:05,880 Speaker 1: mental health is good and that I'm in a good 206 00:10:05,920 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: frame of mind. So I need tea Almost as soon 207 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:13,120 Speaker 1: as I wake up. My husband brings me tea, and 208 00:10:13,400 --> 00:10:15,640 Speaker 1: I drink that I used to like. Most people just 209 00:10:15,640 --> 00:10:18,240 Speaker 1: reach for my phone. I'm finding a bit of an 210 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,880 Speaker 1: intuitive desire not to do that anymore. I'm finding that 211 00:10:22,000 --> 00:10:24,959 Speaker 1: filling my brain, particularly since I veer toward news about 212 00:10:25,400 --> 00:10:28,719 Speaker 1: American politics. I'm finding that I just to start my 213 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:30,920 Speaker 1: day pissed off with Donald Trump is not very good 214 00:10:30,960 --> 00:10:35,480 Speaker 1: for my mental health. So I'm sort of looking at 215 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: change every so often, and it doesn't happen often. I 216 00:10:38,120 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 1: can feel a habit shifting, and I can feel a 217 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:42,160 Speaker 1: habit shifting. I don't know what's going to replace that 218 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,680 Speaker 1: grabbing my phone. Something has to do. But at the moment, 219 00:10:45,760 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 1: I still do look at my phone, have my tea, 220 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:49,200 Speaker 1: and then I have to exercise. That's the first thing 221 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,520 Speaker 1: that I have to do. I have to go for 222 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,800 Speaker 1: We've got a treadmill at home and an elliptical trainer, 223 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 1: and I exercise on those for about minimum half an 224 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 1: hour a day. If it's a good day, I've got 225 00:10:57,960 --> 00:11:01,839 Speaker 1: forty minutes to spare, and then I will either my 226 00:11:01,920 --> 00:11:03,679 Speaker 1: husband or I will take the kids to school. I'll 227 00:11:03,679 --> 00:11:06,840 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts while I'm getting ready. My kids are 228 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 1: old enough to get themselves ready and get themselves up 229 00:11:09,040 --> 00:11:12,079 Speaker 1: in the morning, so all of that's great. So I'll 230 00:11:12,080 --> 00:11:17,400 Speaker 1: listen to podcasts and then I will drive them to school, 231 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:19,280 Speaker 1: listen to more podcasts on the way into the. 232 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:22,400 Speaker 3: Office, and then I'll come in. And I'm kind of. 233 00:11:24,360 --> 00:11:27,400 Speaker 1: A little bit at the behest of the schedule of 234 00:11:27,440 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: my work and the schedule of other people. So we've 235 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: got certain management meetings that we have each week, you know, 236 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 1: whips that we have on a regular basis. 237 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:40,400 Speaker 3: I've got I host three podcasts. 238 00:11:39,760 --> 00:11:45,360 Speaker 1: So and we make from those four podcasts a week. 239 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,000 Speaker 1: So I've got to record four podcasts episodes every week. 240 00:11:48,520 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: So recently I was feeling pretty burnt out because we 241 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: just had a run of doing a whole heap of 242 00:11:53,480 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: podcast interviews for No Filter in a row, and I 243 00:11:55,960 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: was like, oh, my head's about to fly off because 244 00:11:58,640 --> 00:12:01,640 Speaker 1: I love podcasting, but in the studio where we are 245 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:05,240 Speaker 1: now for too long can do your head in a 246 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:07,920 Speaker 1: little bit, and it's intense. It's also intense, you know, 247 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,000 Speaker 1: sitting down and having an intense conversation, particularly with no filter, 248 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:13,960 Speaker 1: and there's a lot of pressure to get on me 249 00:12:14,040 --> 00:12:16,120 Speaker 1: to get that story out, and in many cases the 250 00:12:16,160 --> 00:12:20,120 Speaker 1: story is really emotional, like it's a little be someone's 251 00:12:20,200 --> 00:12:24,360 Speaker 1: life story or something that's happened to them, and you know, 252 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,720 Speaker 1: that'll I've got to hold it together in there. And 253 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:28,440 Speaker 1: it's not like I come out and burst into tears, 254 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:31,560 Speaker 1: but I will feel drained because I'm so present for 255 00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:36,240 Speaker 1: that hour or so that we spend together that that 256 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:40,160 Speaker 1: can drain my energy. And then you know, sometimes I'll leave. 257 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:42,560 Speaker 1: Usually i haven't been able to pick up the kids 258 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,960 Speaker 1: after school, but I'm usually in the office till five 259 00:12:46,200 --> 00:12:50,600 Speaker 1: or so and then go home, spend time with the family, 260 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:54,439 Speaker 1: have dinner, and at the moment I'm now getting back 261 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:56,840 Speaker 1: on my computer and working again. I've sort of given 262 00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:59,000 Speaker 1: up on trying to make progress with ladies startup too 263 00:12:59,040 --> 00:13:01,560 Speaker 1: much during a workday because I'm kind of here for 264 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,640 Speaker 1: everyone else than I have to be. That's kind of 265 00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,840 Speaker 1: my job. But then when I go home there are 266 00:13:06,920 --> 00:13:09,880 Speaker 1: less distractions. So between about nine o'clock after the kids 267 00:13:09,880 --> 00:13:13,880 Speaker 1: are in bed and eleven thirty, that's when I'll try 268 00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:15,760 Speaker 1: to make some forward progress. And that is the most 269 00:13:15,760 --> 00:13:18,199 Speaker 1: satisfied I feel probably at about eleven thirty at night, 270 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:20,680 Speaker 1: when I haven't had those distractions. I can't get up 271 00:13:20,679 --> 00:13:24,319 Speaker 1: and make myself one hundred cups of tea, or wander 272 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:26,200 Speaker 1: over it to someone's desk and talk to them, or 273 00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,560 Speaker 1: reply to an email or in a Slack channel, and 274 00:13:29,640 --> 00:13:31,600 Speaker 1: I just tick things off. 275 00:13:31,960 --> 00:13:33,400 Speaker 2: I want to come back to what you were saying 276 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 2: about your phone in the morning, and you realize that 277 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 2: you're starting to break that habit of the phone being 278 00:13:38,040 --> 00:13:40,199 Speaker 2: the first thing that you go to and then getting 279 00:13:40,200 --> 00:13:43,199 Speaker 2: depressed by what's going on in America, as I think 280 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:46,239 Speaker 2: a lot of us are. And was that a conscious 281 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,280 Speaker 2: decision to break that habit or have you just found 282 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:51,040 Speaker 2: things are changing? No? 283 00:13:51,760 --> 00:13:54,439 Speaker 1: Very If I have one superpower, it's that I really 284 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,760 Speaker 1: follow my intuition and my curiosity, and I just, I 285 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: guess I follow my gut, and it, you know, is 286 00:14:00,559 --> 00:14:02,520 Speaker 1: what caused me to start Mama Meir in the first place. 287 00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: It's what caused me to start our podcast network. It's 288 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:08,880 Speaker 1: what caused me to start Lady Startup as a kind 289 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,000 Speaker 1: of a new platform and any movement for us. And 290 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:16,880 Speaker 1: so I just generally find myself doing things and I'm 291 00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: always I guess the writer in me is always standing 292 00:14:19,080 --> 00:14:22,360 Speaker 1: outside and observing a little bit. So I'm just becoming 293 00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: aware that I don't think it's normal for us as 294 00:14:25,120 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: humans to sort of open our eyes and be bombarded 295 00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:29,520 Speaker 1: by a thousand pieces of information. 296 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:30,920 Speaker 3: It's too much. 297 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:35,800 Speaker 1: And I also just find that, you know, you wake 298 00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:37,600 Speaker 1: up and everyone in the families on their phones and 299 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:38,760 Speaker 1: no one's even going Hi. 300 00:14:38,680 --> 00:14:39,640 Speaker 3: Good morning, how are you. 301 00:14:41,720 --> 00:14:45,520 Speaker 1: So yeah, I am making more of a conscious effort 302 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,200 Speaker 1: to sort of talk to my kids and not just 303 00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:52,280 Speaker 1: sort of bury myself in the work. I've just noticed, interestingly, 304 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,520 Speaker 1: I'm kind of starting to resist it in the same 305 00:14:55,560 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: way that I noticed myself moving off Facebook about a 306 00:14:57,800 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: year ago. 307 00:14:58,760 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 3: Didn't want to look at Facebook a more. What's that about? 308 00:15:01,240 --> 00:15:01,880 Speaker 3: That's interesting? 309 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:03,320 Speaker 2: And so I thought, Oh, and what do you go 310 00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:06,640 Speaker 2: to sites or sources of content? Like if you could 311 00:15:06,680 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 2: only have, say a handful in a day, where would 312 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:10,000 Speaker 2: you go? 313 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, I have to. 314 00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:14,880 Speaker 1: I do genuinely go to Mama Mea because I'm not 315 00:15:15,240 --> 00:15:18,200 Speaker 1: involved in the I'm not involved in so. 316 00:15:18,240 --> 00:15:19,560 Speaker 3: Much in the website anymore. 317 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:24,200 Speaker 1: We've got a team of content creators, and I find 318 00:15:24,200 --> 00:15:27,040 Speaker 1: that they do I'm a consumer now of Muma Mea 319 00:15:27,080 --> 00:15:29,560 Speaker 1: as a woman who wants to know about, who wants 320 00:15:29,560 --> 00:15:31,480 Speaker 1: a thin slice of everything that's going on, from pop 321 00:15:31,480 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: culture to politics. And I find that Muma Mea packages 322 00:15:34,600 --> 00:15:36,960 Speaker 1: that still better than anyone. And I can say that 323 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,400 Speaker 1: because it's not my responsibility anymore in terms of I 324 00:15:39,400 --> 00:15:43,240 Speaker 1: don't do that day to day, so Muma Mea would 325 00:15:43,240 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: be my go to. And then, of course I'm super interested, 326 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:49,440 Speaker 1: as I said, in US politics, So I look at 327 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:51,120 Speaker 1: the New York Times, I subscribe to the New York 328 00:15:51,160 --> 00:15:56,680 Speaker 1: Times and the Washington Post, and then a lot of podcasts, 329 00:15:56,840 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 1: you know. I find that I'm more and more looking 330 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: to podcasts for all kinds of information, and I subscribe 331 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:10,680 Speaker 1: to some edms, some daily newsletters as well. I'm finding 332 00:16:10,720 --> 00:16:14,000 Speaker 1: that what's most interesting to me about my change behavior 333 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:15,720 Speaker 1: is where I don't go, which is Facebook. And I 334 00:16:15,720 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: haven't gone to Facebook for about two years. I don't 335 00:16:17,720 --> 00:16:20,440 Speaker 1: mean i've never visited Facebook for two years, because groups 336 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: is something that's certainly been more active and more growing. 337 00:16:24,440 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: But I found that Facebook was just it felt like 338 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 1: walking into a casino in terms of being assaulted my eyes, 339 00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:36,880 Speaker 1: my ears, my senses. 340 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:38,960 Speaker 3: I didn't know what I was going to get. 341 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:43,120 Speaker 1: I'm starting to return to homepages now, much much more 342 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:45,440 Speaker 1: than I ever did. I'm not relying on Mark Zuckerberg 343 00:16:45,480 --> 00:16:49,080 Speaker 1: to decide what I want to see every day, because 344 00:16:49,160 --> 00:16:51,800 Speaker 1: what the hell does he know? So I'm going back 345 00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:58,160 Speaker 1: to my trusted brands New York Times, Mamma Mia, Washington 346 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:03,080 Speaker 1: Post to see what they have curated for me, and 347 00:17:03,120 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: some of my email newsletters as well. 348 00:17:05,440 --> 00:17:07,640 Speaker 2: Okay, cool, we might come back to some of your favorites. 349 00:17:07,680 --> 00:17:11,200 Speaker 2: Still at the end of the interview, I'm curious about 350 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:13,879 Speaker 2: email as well. I know you use slack here for 351 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:16,680 Speaker 2: internal met too, is that right? Yeah, but you're still 352 00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,560 Speaker 2: gonna get emails from the outside world. What is your 353 00:17:19,600 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 2: approach to managing your inbox? 354 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: It's terrible because I've read recently that email is someone 355 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:29,080 Speaker 1: else's to do list for you. 356 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: Oh that's so true. 357 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 3: And it's true. 358 00:17:32,280 --> 00:17:34,640 Speaker 1: It's like this person wants an answer on this, this 359 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:37,359 Speaker 1: person wants to invite you to this, this person wants 360 00:17:37,359 --> 00:17:41,040 Speaker 1: you to read this. It's like, that's none of that 361 00:17:41,240 --> 00:17:45,040 Speaker 1: is what I plan to do today. And I I've 362 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: just I'm sort of cogitating on that at the moment, 363 00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,520 Speaker 1: and I'm looking at my email in a different way 364 00:17:49,640 --> 00:17:55,760 Speaker 1: because I think that what we've confused, we've confused immediate 365 00:17:55,840 --> 00:17:58,560 Speaker 1: with important, and so that everything that comes to the 366 00:17:58,560 --> 00:18:00,439 Speaker 1: top of our email box we think we've got to 367 00:18:00,440 --> 00:18:03,200 Speaker 1: deal with that because it's interrupted us. And just because 368 00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:05,399 Speaker 1: someone's interrupted, I mean, any mother will tell you this, 369 00:18:05,480 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: any parent, just because someone interrupts you does not mean 370 00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,919 Speaker 1: that they've got the most important thing to say. And 371 00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:15,640 Speaker 1: I'm really aware that you spend your whole day reacting 372 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:20,080 Speaker 1: to what other people want rather than saying, you know, 373 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:21,760 Speaker 1: I wish I was disciplined enough to say I look 374 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:23,720 Speaker 1: at my emails for twenty minutes twice once a day 375 00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:25,880 Speaker 1: or twice a day. But no, I'm just the same 376 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:27,800 Speaker 1: as anyone else. I just check check, check, check check. 377 00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:33,040 Speaker 3: But yeah, a girl friend of mine, I was. 378 00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:35,280 Speaker 1: Trying to encourage her to subscribe to a newsletter, but 379 00:18:35,320 --> 00:18:37,440 Speaker 1: I didn't just subscribe to and she said, no, I'm 380 00:18:37,440 --> 00:18:40,320 Speaker 1: pretty protective of my email box. I don't think I'm 381 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: going to my inbox. I'm not going to subscribe to that. 382 00:18:42,480 --> 00:18:44,199 Speaker 1: And I thought, wow, that's a really interesting way of 383 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,639 Speaker 1: looking at it, that your inbox is like the time 384 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:51,120 Speaker 1: that you have to spend, and you should be careful 385 00:18:51,119 --> 00:18:52,600 Speaker 1: of who you allow to come into it. 386 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:55,000 Speaker 3: I thought that's very interesting. 387 00:18:56,960 --> 00:18:58,760 Speaker 2: That's so true what you said about email being just 388 00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:02,200 Speaker 2: other people's priorities. And I'm curious because you must get 389 00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:05,000 Speaker 2: so many requests on your time, like obviously you've got 390 00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 2: one hundred staff here, but all of the everyone else 391 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,800 Speaker 2: in the whole wide world wanting like a piece of you. 392 00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 2: How how do you decide what you say yes to 393 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:15,840 Speaker 2: and what you say no to? 394 00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 3: What a good question. I'm very good at saying no. 395 00:19:21,560 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 3: I used to be always could not say. I used 396 00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 3: to be very bad at it. 397 00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,879 Speaker 1: Like most women, I wanted people to like me and 398 00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:28,840 Speaker 1: I wanted to not disappoint anybody. 399 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 3: And so what I would do is because I. 400 00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:33,440 Speaker 1: Would not want to have I would not want to 401 00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,320 Speaker 1: make someone feel bad for the ten seconds that it 402 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:38,560 Speaker 1: would take them to read that I was turning down 403 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:40,200 Speaker 1: whatever they wanted me to do. 404 00:19:40,680 --> 00:19:43,320 Speaker 3: I would say okay, just to put that off. 405 00:19:43,840 --> 00:19:45,840 Speaker 1: But then what I would do is buy a whole 406 00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:50,439 Speaker 1: problem for future me, which was I've promised to go 407 00:19:50,480 --> 00:19:53,000 Speaker 1: to Brisbane or do this, or go somewhere after work, 408 00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 1: and then that time would come around and I would 409 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:58,840 Speaker 1: really really really not want to do it, and it 410 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: would really, you know, take a toll on me or 411 00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,119 Speaker 1: my family or whatever it is. And what I found 412 00:20:04,320 --> 00:20:11,359 Speaker 1: really helped is having having rules and not saying I can't, 413 00:20:11,560 --> 00:20:15,320 Speaker 1: but saying I don't. So it sounds really subtle, but 414 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:19,199 Speaker 1: it's really relevant. So, like I have a thing, I 415 00:20:19,280 --> 00:20:22,639 Speaker 1: don't do black high functions, So I don't do balls, 416 00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,000 Speaker 1: I don't do dinners. I don't do you know, I 417 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,760 Speaker 1: don't do lunches. I don't do lunches during the week. 418 00:20:30,480 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: What else? I don't do premieres. I don't do. 419 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: Speaking engagements or charity things on weekends. So once you 420 00:20:42,920 --> 00:20:46,159 Speaker 1: have those don't it takes the should I should I not? 421 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:49,160 Speaker 1: And that's even I find that those kind of hard 422 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:52,320 Speaker 1: and fast rules help so much in all aspects of life. 423 00:20:52,359 --> 00:20:55,679 Speaker 1: So I exercise every day because that's easier than exercising 424 00:20:55,680 --> 00:20:58,240 Speaker 1: two or three times a week. It's less mental stress 425 00:20:58,240 --> 00:21:00,919 Speaker 1: on me because it's just a non negotiable. Cleaning your teeth, 426 00:21:01,160 --> 00:21:03,119 Speaker 1: imagine if you only have to clean your teeth two 427 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,280 Speaker 1: or three days a week, and then every night. 428 00:21:05,160 --> 00:21:07,760 Speaker 3: You'd go, should it be tonight? Oh, I don't know. 429 00:21:07,880 --> 00:21:09,800 Speaker 3: But then tomorrow night, I'm going to be tigs. I've 430 00:21:09,800 --> 00:21:11,199 Speaker 3: got to go to that thing and I don't know. 431 00:21:11,440 --> 00:21:13,679 Speaker 1: But instead you just do it every You know, that 432 00:21:13,760 --> 00:21:16,119 Speaker 1: part of your brain doesn't have to think should I 433 00:21:16,119 --> 00:21:18,040 Speaker 1: brush my teeth tonight or not, because you brush your 434 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:20,840 Speaker 1: teeth every day. Same with having a shower, same with 435 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:23,760 Speaker 1: any habit that you have. I'm one of those people 436 00:21:24,000 --> 00:21:27,720 Speaker 1: that needs to do it, needs hard and fast rules. Yeah, 437 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:31,240 Speaker 1: otherwise I find myself negotiating with myself and that's exhausting. 438 00:21:31,440 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 1: So Obama when he was in office, wore the same 439 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,440 Speaker 1: He had ten versions of the same blue suit, and 440 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 1: he wore it every day because he said, that's one 441 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,119 Speaker 1: less decision I have to make every day, and it 442 00:21:40,160 --> 00:21:42,600 Speaker 1: frees up my mind to make other decisions. 443 00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 2: Absolutely. Decision fatigue is such a big thing. Yeah, And 444 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: if we can reduce the decisions that we're making, then 445 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:48,600 Speaker 2: we're going to make better quality decisions. 446 00:21:48,640 --> 00:21:49,240 Speaker 3: Absolutely. 447 00:21:49,400 --> 00:21:51,440 Speaker 2: And it's interesting what you say about don't and cart 448 00:21:51,720 --> 00:21:55,000 Speaker 2: I read some research about that recently where they had 449 00:21:55,040 --> 00:21:59,080 Speaker 2: a group of people that said I can't eat unhealthy food, 450 00:21:59,119 --> 00:22:01,000 Speaker 2: for example, and then there was another group that said 451 00:22:01,040 --> 00:22:03,919 Speaker 2: I don't eat unhealthy food. And in this experiment. They 452 00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:05,760 Speaker 2: were then offered a snack as they were leaving. One 453 00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:08,320 Speaker 2: was healthy, one was unhealthy, and those that said I 454 00:22:08,359 --> 00:22:11,639 Speaker 2: don't eat unhealthy food just even to themselves, with fifty 455 00:22:11,680 --> 00:22:14,879 Speaker 2: percent more likely to get the healthy snack. 456 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:17,120 Speaker 1: So, and people won't argue with you when you say 457 00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:19,760 Speaker 1: I don't. I'm so sorry I don't do lunches. Then 458 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:22,640 Speaker 1: that's very clear. It's like I can't have lunch on Tuesday? 459 00:22:22,680 --> 00:22:23,560 Speaker 1: What about Wednesday? 460 00:22:23,960 --> 00:22:24,120 Speaker 2: Oh? 461 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:26,760 Speaker 1: What about you know? And it's like how that never 462 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,480 Speaker 1: is never good for you? And it's a clear line 463 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: in the sound. And the other thing I do is 464 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:33,399 Speaker 1: that I'm just very honest, and so I say, thanks 465 00:22:33,400 --> 00:22:36,200 Speaker 1: so much for the invitation, but the demands of running 466 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:40,479 Speaker 1: a business and having a young family means that I 467 00:22:40,600 --> 00:22:45,280 Speaker 1: just can't do anything except those two things, and no 468 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:49,280 Speaker 1: one all lot. What I find people are incredibly appreciative 469 00:22:49,280 --> 00:22:51,879 Speaker 1: if you respond quickly, because what most people do is 470 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:53,480 Speaker 1: go oh, I want to disappoint them. So I just 471 00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,720 Speaker 1: will just ignore that, and they might they don't mind, 472 00:22:56,720 --> 00:22:59,000 Speaker 1: and know I mean, they prefer yes, but they'll deal 473 00:22:59,040 --> 00:23:01,000 Speaker 1: with a no. But the it's always thank you so 474 00:23:01,080 --> 00:23:01,919 Speaker 1: much for getting back to me. 475 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,040 Speaker 3: Quickly. At least I know I can move on now. 476 00:23:04,359 --> 00:23:06,840 Speaker 1: Yeah, And no one can argue when you say work 477 00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:09,760 Speaker 1: in family, no one can go oh but please. But 478 00:23:10,080 --> 00:23:12,240 Speaker 1: I was listening to an interview with Oprah actually on 479 00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 1: Gwyneth Paltrow's podcast Goup, and Oprah was saying talking about 480 00:23:17,520 --> 00:23:21,639 Speaker 1: saying no, and she said, you know, people will become insistent. 481 00:23:22,160 --> 00:23:24,960 Speaker 1: And she said, first they'll say to you, oh, but 482 00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:28,840 Speaker 1: it's for the children. And She's like, well, that, don't 483 00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:32,200 Speaker 1: try to manipulate me. And then she said finally she'll 484 00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:34,080 Speaker 1: just say are you not hearing my no? 485 00:23:35,560 --> 00:23:38,760 Speaker 3: And I was like, oh, that's interesting. I don't tend 486 00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 3: to find that. 487 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,200 Speaker 1: I tend to find people are pretty respectful and generally 488 00:23:43,280 --> 00:23:44,439 Speaker 1: just just like an answer. 489 00:23:44,440 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 3: But I say yes to a lot as well. But 490 00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 3: I have to be. 491 00:23:50,520 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 1: Conscious that my time and my energy is a finite resource, 492 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: and who and what are my priorities? 493 00:23:57,200 --> 00:24:02,320 Speaker 2: Absolutely, and obviously like paringings everything. You've got three kids. 494 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:06,560 Speaker 2: I think your youngest is nine. Yeah. Yeah. What are 495 00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 2: your tips for parents, particularly working parents? What are your 496 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 2: best time hacks? 497 00:24:12,760 --> 00:24:16,720 Speaker 1: Yeah, make them do as much for themselves as possible 498 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: so my kids will make their own lunches, I can't 499 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: be bothered. And also it's good for them to learn that, right, 500 00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:25,520 Speaker 1: It's good for them to learn that. And my parenting 501 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:28,119 Speaker 1: philosophy very much ties in with me being lazy. 502 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:30,720 Speaker 3: So the less I have to do, the better. 503 00:24:31,040 --> 00:24:34,679 Speaker 1: Yeah, And what I always say, my one piece of 504 00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:39,520 Speaker 1: advice is lower your standards for yourself and raise your 505 00:24:39,520 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: standards for other people around you in your life. And 506 00:24:43,160 --> 00:24:45,480 Speaker 1: I think that's such a thing for women because we 507 00:24:45,520 --> 00:24:47,160 Speaker 1: always feel like, oh, I. 508 00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:48,840 Speaker 3: Have to do everything. 509 00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,040 Speaker 1: And the studies show that the women who work full 510 00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:54,200 Speaker 1: time tend to do more housework. 511 00:24:55,320 --> 00:24:59,640 Speaker 3: Because they feel guilty. So it's like, just. 512 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:04,720 Speaker 1: Lower your standards for yourself, whether it's the less tidy house, 513 00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:12,920 Speaker 1: not making every soccer game, you know, having your kids 514 00:25:12,960 --> 00:25:14,200 Speaker 1: eat baked beans out of a can. 515 00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:15,719 Speaker 3: Sometimes it's all okay. 516 00:25:16,359 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 1: And you know, I think that this idea of that 517 00:25:21,160 --> 00:25:24,040 Speaker 1: being a good parent means always putting your children first. 518 00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:25,600 Speaker 3: I say bollocks to that. 519 00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:29,040 Speaker 1: And I think it's such a trap because that's not 520 00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:31,880 Speaker 1: a standard that we put out there for men. It's 521 00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:33,879 Speaker 1: a standard that we only have out there for mothers. 522 00:25:34,560 --> 00:25:37,280 Speaker 1: And I feel that as an employer of a lot 523 00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: of millennials and post millennials. Every time you put your child. 524 00:25:41,800 --> 00:25:43,280 Speaker 1: I don't mean when they really need you, like if 525 00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:46,840 Speaker 1: they're bleeding, or if they're like distressed, or you know, 526 00:25:47,040 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: or three years old. I'm not talking about that, but 527 00:25:49,640 --> 00:25:53,200 Speaker 1: I'm talking about all the times that society tells us 528 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,440 Speaker 1: that we should drop everything and put our children's needs 529 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 1: above our own and above everyone else's. As an employer 530 00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,080 Speaker 1: of a lot of young people, I would say you 531 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,200 Speaker 1: are doing a disservice to your child's future employer if 532 00:26:03,200 --> 00:26:05,600 Speaker 1: you teach them that they are the center of every universe, 533 00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:07,919 Speaker 1: every minute of the day. There are times when they 534 00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:10,679 Speaker 1: need to know. You know what, Mum can't come to 535 00:26:10,800 --> 00:26:14,480 Speaker 1: see you in your ballet concert because she's got to 536 00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:18,399 Speaker 1: take Auntie Jane to chemo, or she's got to go 537 00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:22,680 Speaker 1: for a run because it helps her feel positive about 538 00:26:22,720 --> 00:26:26,359 Speaker 1: the day. Or she has to work late because she's 539 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,480 Speaker 1: got to work late a boss asked her to work late. 540 00:26:28,760 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: So that idea of you are not always going to 541 00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: be on the top of everybody's pile is a crucial 542 00:26:35,000 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 1: lesson for kids to learn, Like it's a crucial lesson, 543 00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:41,000 Speaker 1: And I think, you know, I think the pendulum swung 544 00:26:41,040 --> 00:26:43,600 Speaker 1: so far. Our parents were very free range. I was 545 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,680 Speaker 1: raised by Boomers, and I think Boomers were pretty free 546 00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:47,560 Speaker 1: range in their parenting, which was just kind of, you know, 547 00:26:47,680 --> 00:26:49,840 Speaker 1: go out and play until it gets dark and then 548 00:26:49,840 --> 00:26:53,280 Speaker 1: come inside. And then our generation exs. We kind of 549 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:55,960 Speaker 1: were the first generation to treat parent as a verb, 550 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,600 Speaker 1: you know, to parent and and I think there's a 551 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:03,400 Speaker 1: happy medium in there somewhere, and that's what I would 552 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:07,920 Speaker 1: encourage people to try to find, you know, promoting resilience 553 00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 1: in your children by making them a self sufficient as possible. 554 00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,920 Speaker 2: Yes, good advice, Good advice. One other thing I wanted 555 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:15,359 Speaker 2: to ask about before we sort of move on to 556 00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,800 Speaker 2: some rapid fire questions to finish it off, is your 557 00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:22,400 Speaker 2: approach to taking breaks, like during the day. I've heard 558 00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,760 Speaker 2: that you're you're not like you so you don't do lunches. 559 00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:27,720 Speaker 2: I hear that loud and clear. So what do you 560 00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,600 Speaker 2: do to re energize during the day. 561 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,600 Speaker 3: I drink a lot of team. That's a really good question. 562 00:27:39,000 --> 00:27:40,680 Speaker 3: I have gone through phases. 563 00:27:41,359 --> 00:27:43,560 Speaker 1: I've been in sort of open we have an open 564 00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:47,879 Speaker 1: plan office, and because our space is limited, my husband 565 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:49,480 Speaker 1: and I used to have offices and then we gave 566 00:27:49,520 --> 00:27:51,680 Speaker 1: them up because we needed more meeting rooms, and I've 567 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:55,480 Speaker 1: just commandeered one again because I found that being in 568 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:57,359 Speaker 1: open plan is a big drain of my energy. And 569 00:27:57,400 --> 00:27:59,600 Speaker 1: I think a lot of people find that in open 570 00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:01,920 Speaker 1: plan off. And I'm lucky enough that I'm the boss 571 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,440 Speaker 1: and I can go and go. I'm going to take 572 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:09,480 Speaker 1: back this office now. But what do I do to reenergize? 573 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:14,800 Speaker 3: Oh, I don't know. I find that consuming content is 574 00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 3: reanergizes me. 575 00:28:16,920 --> 00:28:18,560 Speaker 1: And just like the mental break of getting up and 576 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,760 Speaker 1: going and making a cup of tea, like I always 577 00:28:21,680 --> 00:28:23,959 Speaker 1: make my own. You know, I've got an assistant, but 578 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 1: she very very very rarely makes me a cup of tea. 579 00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: I always do that myself because I find that that's 580 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:30,359 Speaker 1: a bit of a mental break. 581 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,600 Speaker 3: Tea in a way. Combined it too, It's efficient. 582 00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:38,800 Speaker 2: It's a great motto for a break, exactly. Love it, 583 00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,840 Speaker 2: love it. I'd love to finish off with some rapid 584 00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 2: fire questions. You mentioned that you've got some go to 585 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:47,000 Speaker 2: podcasts and use letters that you subscribe to. I wanted 586 00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: to drill into, like what are your favorite ones, because 587 00:28:49,360 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 2: I think it can be really overwhelming for people. There's 588 00:28:51,440 --> 00:28:54,360 Speaker 2: so much out there, and it's really interesting to know 589 00:28:54,760 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 2: what are people like yourself consumed. So podcasts, what are 590 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,800 Speaker 2: your go to podcast us right now? 591 00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 3: I listen a lot. 592 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,520 Speaker 1: To a podcast called Pod Save America, which is about Trump, 593 00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:08,520 Speaker 1: so I'm going to be a little bit Trump heavy. 594 00:29:09,440 --> 00:29:11,360 Speaker 1: I find The Daily by the New York Times a 595 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,480 Speaker 1: really great podcast, although I haven't been listening to it 596 00:29:13,520 --> 00:29:14,920 Speaker 1: so much for the last couple of weeks. And there's 597 00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,160 Speaker 1: an interview podcast called Fresh Air that is on NPR 598 00:29:20,160 --> 00:29:22,160 Speaker 1: and it's hosted and has been for many, many years 599 00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:26,040 Speaker 1: by a wonderful woman called Terry Gross, and her interviews 600 00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: are just so interesting, so so interesting, just the way 601 00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:31,720 Speaker 1: she does interviews. 602 00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,440 Speaker 3: So I listen. I really like all of those. 603 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:38,440 Speaker 2: Podcasts, fantastic. What about the newsletters? What are your What 604 00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:40,520 Speaker 2: are the ones that you look forward to actually receiving? 605 00:29:40,680 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, well there's one from CNN. I'm called Reliable Sources 606 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 1: by Brian Selter. 607 00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:49,800 Speaker 3: It's about the media. I get that every day and 608 00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:50,440 Speaker 3: I love that. 609 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:53,280 Speaker 1: That's what I really look forward to reading. And I 610 00:29:53,280 --> 00:29:56,640 Speaker 1: consume Mama Maya a lot by our adms. We do 611 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:58,880 Speaker 1: a morning and an evening one. I really enjoy that 612 00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: because it's a good thin slice. I mean, we create 613 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,480 Speaker 1: about forty pieces of content a day, but we have 614 00:30:06,560 --> 00:30:09,920 Speaker 1: about ten in each of those newsletters, and it's a 615 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:11,840 Speaker 1: good way to sort of thin slice what's going on, 616 00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:13,280 Speaker 1: even if you just skim the headlines. 617 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:16,600 Speaker 2: Excellent. And finally, books, what is a good book that 618 00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:17,959 Speaker 2: you have read in recent months? 619 00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,920 Speaker 1: I'd really recommend Cheryl Sandberg's most recent book. It came 620 00:30:22,920 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 1: out about a year ago, so it's not that recent, 621 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,960 Speaker 1: but my goodness, it's brilliant. It's called Option B. And 622 00:30:28,000 --> 00:30:30,520 Speaker 1: I was such a fan of Leaning, and I still 623 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:33,720 Speaker 1: recommend Leaning. I think it's a fantastic book. But Option 624 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:36,120 Speaker 1: B is the book that she wrote a couple of 625 00:30:36,160 --> 00:30:38,640 Speaker 1: years ago after her husband died very unexpectedly, and it's 626 00:30:38,680 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 1: that idea of sometimes Option A is not available to you, 627 00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:44,040 Speaker 1: and so then what you've got to kick the shit 628 00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: out of Option B. And that's not just about losing 629 00:30:48,600 --> 00:30:50,640 Speaker 1: someone to death. It could be losing your job, it 630 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:55,680 Speaker 1: could be losing a pregnancy, losing a relationship. It's really 631 00:30:55,720 --> 00:31:01,160 Speaker 1: all about coping after something happens to you in that sense. 632 00:31:02,000 --> 00:31:04,960 Speaker 1: And a bit of a companion book that I've been 633 00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,880 Speaker 1: reading that's going to be out later in this year, 634 00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:11,560 Speaker 1: I think October. The first is Lee Sale's new book 635 00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:16,560 Speaker 1: called Any Ordinary Day, and it is about it's interview 636 00:31:16,600 --> 00:31:19,240 Speaker 1: a series of interviews that she's done with people who 637 00:31:19,280 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: have been essentially blindsided by tragedy, you know, a crime 638 00:31:23,560 --> 00:31:27,680 Speaker 1: or a sudden death of someone they love, or someone 639 00:31:27,720 --> 00:31:30,800 Speaker 1: who is in the Linp Cafe siege. And it's about 640 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:34,120 Speaker 1: the name of the book applies. It refers to the 641 00:31:34,120 --> 00:31:35,880 Speaker 1: fact that they all woke up and thought that it 642 00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:39,200 Speaker 1: was just an ordinary day and it was an absolutely 643 00:31:39,280 --> 00:31:41,760 Speaker 1: extraordinary day that would change the course of their life forever. 644 00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: And it's about what happens the day after the worst 645 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:49,200 Speaker 1: day of your life. And she's such a wonderful writer, Lee, 646 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: which is something that a lot of people might not 647 00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:52,560 Speaker 1: know about her if they know her as host of 648 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: seven point thirty and the formidable political interview. 649 00:31:55,960 --> 00:31:56,400 Speaker 3: That she is. 650 00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,960 Speaker 1: But it sounds like it's a horrific thing to write about, 651 00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,959 Speaker 1: but she's got a lovely, chatty, engaging style that she 652 00:32:03,000 --> 00:32:06,160 Speaker 1: brings to it, and it's just, yeah, it's a wonderful read. 653 00:32:06,280 --> 00:32:09,800 Speaker 3: So those two as companion pieces are my recommendation. 654 00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:13,120 Speaker 2: Awesome, Thank you so much, Maa. It's been so nice 655 00:32:13,160 --> 00:32:16,840 Speaker 2: talking to you my pleasure. Thanks for having me. Hello there, 656 00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,640 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening to today's episode. I 657 00:32:19,680 --> 00:32:23,040 Speaker 2: hope you got some really useful tips and insights that 658 00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,880 Speaker 2: you can apply in your own life. And before you go, 659 00:32:26,280 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 2: I just have one more thing to ask. I would 660 00:32:30,520 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 2: love it if you're enjoying How I Work if you'd 661 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:36,000 Speaker 2: like to give it a review in iTunes or wherever 662 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: you listen to your podcast might be a star rating 663 00:32:38,960 --> 00:32:41,800 Speaker 2: or writing some words on what you think about How 664 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:46,520 Speaker 2: I Work. I read every single review and they've all 665 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,640 Speaker 2: been delightful so far and bring a huge smile to 666 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,560 Speaker 2: my face. And also, if you're enjoying How I Work, 667 00:32:51,800 --> 00:32:53,720 Speaker 2: make sure you let other people know about it that 668 00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:55,920 Speaker 2: you think could also benefit from some of the tips 669 00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:58,920 Speaker 2: that my guests share. So that is it for today, 670 00:32:59,000 --> 00:33:00,440 Speaker 2: and I'll see you next time.