Speaker 1: Good a, Peter Helly here, welcome to you Ain't Seen
Speaker 1: Nothing Yet the movie podcast, where our chat to a
Speaker 1: movie lover about a classical beloved movie they haven't quite
Speaker 1: got around to watching until now. And today's guest comedian
Speaker 1: Zoe koomsm Ever Dance with the Devil in the vale Light.
Speaker 1: I'm walking ahead. I'm walking ahead of all the gin
Speaker 1: joints in all the towns in all the world.
Speaker 2: She walks into mine.
Speaker 3: Happening right so you don't seen nothing here.
Speaker 1: Zoe Kuzmh has in the past six years announced herself
Speaker 1: as one of the funniest and most interesting comedians on
Speaker 1: the Australian comedy scene. Dave Her comedy Creation, in which
Speaker 1: you took on the persona and embodiment of a straight
Speaker 1: male comedian, won her the Best Show at the Melbourne
Speaker 1: International Comedy Festival in twenty sixteen and a couple of
Speaker 1: green Room Awards as well. The awards kept coming for
Speaker 1: her follow up show, Bossy Bottom, in which she took
Speaker 1: home a Helpman Award for Best Comedy Performer. She recorded
Speaker 1: it as a special for Amazon Prime and I wholeheartedly
Speaker 1: encourage you to check it out. It's brilliant and very
Speaker 1: very funny. What I love about Zoe konz Mar is
Speaker 1: her comedy braces both the cerebral and the silly. I
Speaker 1: got the hang out with Zoe a bit in Montreal
Speaker 1: and the just for the last festival, just before the
Speaker 1: world turned the shit. Zoe is modest, smart, inventive kind
Speaker 1: and of course bloody hilarious. And I'm bloody stoked to
Speaker 1: have her hanging with meet today.
Speaker 3: I'm Zoe Koombsma and my favorite movies are dumb and dumber,
Speaker 3: Book Book, you guysen adaptation.
Speaker 1: I don't have any bloody use for.
Speaker 3: It, and heart beats.
Speaker 2: Robots cannot be criminals because we are bounded by a robots.
Speaker 3: Didn't But until this week, I've never seen Taxi driver.
Speaker 4: Weliness is following my whole life. Everywhere, bars and cars, sidewalks, stores, everywhere.
Speaker 4: There's no excpe. God's only man. June eighth, my life
Speaker 4: has taken another turn again. The days move along with regularity,
Speaker 4: all inn orb one day in distinguished perform, the next
Speaker 4: long continuous chaine, and suddenly there is a change.
Speaker 1: Yes, out of all the movies set in New York City,
Speaker 1: Taxi Driver feels like possibly the most New York ex
Speaker 1: marine now insomniac taxi driver Travis Biggel drives a dirty
Speaker 1: streets of pre Juliani's New York City in Martin Scorsese's
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six classic Biggle Nos, society is broken but
Speaker 1: doesn't know how to fix it or even articulate it.
Speaker 1: When Sybil Shepherd's political campaign worker Betsy captures his eye,
Speaker 1: and when Trav makes a bad choice for a date,
Speaker 1: it sparkses descent into violence and madness. From a script
Speaker 1: by Paul Schrader with a cracking performance by a twelve
Speaker 1: year old Jodi Foster. Taxi driver is peaked in Hero.
Speaker 1: It's peak Scorsese, It's peak New York, Zoe Kuzmar. Are
Speaker 1: you talking to me? Are you talking to me?
Speaker 3: I guess I am.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: It's podcast is the medium for really I am talking
Speaker 3: to you? Do you know? I didn't when when I knew,
Speaker 3: obviously I hadn't seen taxi driver I was, but I
Speaker 3: in my head taxi driver was say hello to my
Speaker 3: little friend. But are you talking to me? Say hello
Speaker 3: to my little friend?
Speaker 1: Is sc Scarfacecino?
Speaker 3: So got my Italians mixed up?
Speaker 1: That's not as bad as Georgie Tani thought Planes, Trains
Speaker 1: and Automobiles was Train Spot.
Speaker 3: They couldn't be further apart those movies.
Speaker 1: Thank you for joining us. And why why did you
Speaker 1: choose Taxi Driver? I know there was, I know we spoke.
Speaker 3: I chose Taxi Driver because I wanted to see Robert
Speaker 3: de Niro get shot in the bar. But sorely disappointed.
Speaker 3: That's not that's not true. Sorry, I'll cut you off there.
Speaker 1: No, no, we did have Elma and Luis. I think
Speaker 1: you nominated on one drunk night back in the pre
Speaker 1: COVID world in the lad Fringe. I think I wrote
Speaker 1: it in my notes, and then I kind of lost
Speaker 1: that note and then found it again. But Alex Edelman
Speaker 1: had taken the Delvin Luis. That's another one. You can
Speaker 1: obviously doing your own time.
Speaker 3: So damn you, Edmond. I've never seen it and.
Speaker 1: I never will now, So we got under Tati driver.
Speaker 1: How did you watch it? We should point out we
Speaker 1: are in Lockdown six at the moment. How did you
Speaker 1: watch it? Was it? Was it a good film to
Speaker 1: watching Lockdown? Or was it? Was it rather painful?
Speaker 3: It was? I literally I watched it this morning. I
Speaker 3: got up and I watched it on my laptop on
Speaker 3: my lap on my bed, while my partner, who is
Speaker 3: a film programmer for the Melbourne Film Festival, watched a
Speaker 3: real movie on the This isn't a real movie. It's
Speaker 3: like proper Prestige's real movie. But she she had the
Speaker 3: television downstairs. She was watching her film for work. So
Speaker 3: I was watching Little Little Mini DeNiro excellent and it
Speaker 3: was you know what, it was so good. I loved it.
Speaker 3: It's you know what, I think it's a good movie.
Speaker 3: I'm probably the first person to say that, but I
Speaker 3: reckon it's.
Speaker 1: Okay, It's okay. There you go that say, if you're listening,
Speaker 1: rite that. On the thirtieth anniversary release, which would be
Speaker 1: come this even that's gone. Actually this is what thirty
Speaker 1: five years old. So we'll come back to talk about
Speaker 1: more why you love Taxi Drive. I want to talk
Speaker 1: about your three favorite films.
Speaker 3: It's so hard to choose three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you're You're not the first to make that point.
Speaker 1: And I had no idea. It was just a fun
Speaker 1: way to kick off the podcast. I had no idea
Speaker 1: of the torment I was imposing on my guess what
Speaker 1: was what was your Are these genuinely your your top
Speaker 1: three films? And did you try to choose like films
Speaker 1: that represents your tastes?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I tried to pick form. I mean there are
Speaker 3: a few dumb and Dumber and adaptation are probably They're
Speaker 3: definitely some of my favorite films. I love them both
Speaker 3: and could watch them anytime. Heart Beats I put in
Speaker 3: there because I just think more people should know about it.
Speaker 1: I'm embarrassed. I it su possibly is the first film,
Speaker 1: and maybe Tommy Deslo had one film that I hadn't
Speaker 1: heard of that this is the second one. I don't
Speaker 1: know this film, yeah.
Speaker 3: No one does. Its Heartbeats represents probably my favorite genre
Speaker 3: of film, which is big budget turkeys, right, Like you
Speaker 3: know when you find a movie and you're like, that's
Speaker 3: got a big budget and an all star cast, and
Speaker 3: I have never heard of it. It must be a shocker,
Speaker 3: and it is. It's heart Beats? Is it Stares? Bernadette
Speaker 3: Peters and Andy Kaufman Matchmaker Heaven? What casting? Bernadett Peters
Speaker 3: and Andy Kaufman play humanoid robots who are in love
Speaker 3: and they go on a journey through like kind of
Speaker 3: futuristic apocalyptic type of landscape. Christopher Guest is in it.
Speaker 3: It's like, it's terrible, it's totally unwatchable, and they have
Speaker 3: obviously spent so much money on it. It's amazing.
Speaker 1: It's it's just it's just the one.
Speaker 3: Who knows it's anyone's guest. Really, I think it was
Speaker 3: sort of at the peak of like I think it's
Speaker 3: aiming to be a quirky Andy Kaufman vehicle, but it's
Speaker 3: also like a Disney Kids movie almost, and it's just yeah,
Speaker 3: it's just bizarre. It just was like one hundred bad
Speaker 3: decisions all encapsulated in one movie. It's a love story.
Speaker 3: It's meant to be a rom com is the thing,
Speaker 3: but it's just considering.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it takes one bad decision to make a film
Speaker 1: not work. One hundred bad decisions is a lot.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's how you end up on Coombs Mars doctory lists.
Speaker 3: You really have to lean into those bad decisions.
Speaker 1: And where can people see it? Nowhere?
Speaker 3: Really, I don't think it's I own the DVD, so
Speaker 3: if anyone wants to borrow, I feel it, but I
Speaker 3: highly recommend even just do a Google image search. Heart
Speaker 3: beats Heart, Yeah, it's how you'd imagine heart Beats, Andy Kaufman,
Speaker 3: have a look. It's pretty funny. Just the images from.
Speaker 1: It screening at Comedy Republic. Might might be on the
Speaker 1: cards potentially.
Speaker 3: Hell yeah, yeah people. It's one of those ones where
Speaker 3: you're like, oh, this is funny, and then sort of
Speaker 3: twenty minutes and you're like, this is not I can't
Speaker 3: do this. I can't, I can't stay with this.
Speaker 1: Well, let's waiting the ship up a little bit. With
Speaker 1: the Dumb and Dumber. I can't believe I just said that.
Speaker 1: It took me a long time to swatch Dumb and Dumber.
Speaker 1: I was not a Jim Carrey, early Jim Carrey fan.
Speaker 1: It wasn't until Cable Guy that I jumped on the
Speaker 1: Jim Carrey as a lot of people were jumping off
Speaker 1: the Jim Carrey Express.
Speaker 3: I wasn't Cable Guy the first Jim Carrey.
Speaker 1: No. So, Dumb and Dumber and the Mask ace Ventura
Speaker 1: I think all proceed well. Certainly Ace Venturer and the
Speaker 1: Mask predated the Cable Guy. Dumb Dumber may have come afterwards.
Speaker 3: I think it's maybe I feel I think they were
Speaker 3: in the same year for him. I think he did
Speaker 3: like the Mask. Ace Ventura and Dumb and Dumber in
Speaker 3: the sat like he had three top box office movies
Speaker 3: in the one year. I think it's it might not
Speaker 3: have been that, but yeah, it was, like it's a
Speaker 3: sort of peaked Jim Carrey moment. I love Dumb and
Speaker 3: Dumber because Jeff Daniels is so fantastic in it, and
Speaker 3: it's just so funny. It's just I think it's the
Speaker 3: I think it's a perfectly perfect funny movie. Yeah, Jump
Speaker 3: and Dumber two, however, abysmal, like, not not a laugh
Speaker 3: in the whole thing, horrible.
Speaker 1: Soumb two was the one that just came out kind
Speaker 1: of recently.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, yeah, it's terrible.
Speaker 1: Did you go into that with any kind of expectations
Speaker 1: that that could be good?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Pete, I was so excited. I was
Speaker 3: so excited. I went to I saw it premiered at
Speaker 3: like so as soon as I could, my partner and
Speaker 3: I went to the Moonlight Cinema to watch it on
Speaker 3: a big screen. And it was so bad. But halfway
Speaker 3: through the movie, the screen started. It was one of
Speaker 3: those inflatable ones and it started deflating. That was the
Speaker 3: funniest thing that happened in the whole film, and it
Speaker 3: was if they if they managed to do that in
Speaker 3: every screening, good on them, well done.
Speaker 1: That was a good It felt like it feels like
Speaker 1: a choice, Yes, and it was.
Speaker 3: It kind of happened at exactly the point when everyone
Speaker 3: in the audience had realized that the movie was bad,
Speaker 3: and then it sort of started melting in on itself. Great.
Speaker 1: How could these Jeff Daniels like, like, considering the actor
Speaker 1: who he is, he is, and he has become sense
Speaker 1: doing that that, Like, I'm not sure if any as
Speaker 1: good an actor, like a drama actor has given a
Speaker 1: better comedy got pure comedy performance.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think you'd be pretty hard pressed to find
Speaker 3: anything that would that would match. It's because he's such
Speaker 3: a good actor, Like you really feel for that character,
Speaker 3: you really like him. All the lines are like perfectly delivered.
Speaker 3: When the they kill the parish, just the line his
Speaker 3: head fell off is so funny. His head fell off,
Speaker 3: like it's just the whole the whole thing is just
Speaker 3: so funny. I love it. I love it so much.
Speaker 1: It seems like that alongside your other film adaptation, Charlie
Speaker 1: Kaufman brilliant. Just to thick about Spike Jones Nick Age
Speaker 1: in multiple roles Mill Street. But it seems like an
Speaker 1: odd choice. But if I think about your comedy, it's
Speaker 1: actually it kind of makes sense. Like you think outside
Speaker 1: the box. You're very cerebral, but there's silliness in your
Speaker 1: comedy as well. It kind of seems like it does
Speaker 1: make sense adaptation.
Speaker 3: I love how kind of meta it is, Like it's
Speaker 3: it's such it's so beautifully done, and it's meta on
Speaker 3: so many different levels. Like I also really like The
Speaker 3: Orchard Thief, which is the book that it's based on
Speaker 3: but so not based on, like, and it's so beautiful
Speaker 3: the way it folds in on itself, And there's this
Speaker 3: moment where the moment when you realize that the movie
Speaker 3: that you're watching is the movie that he's writing, is
Speaker 3: like incredible. Like it's so that sort of thing where
Speaker 3: you're like, oh my god, this is I remember when
Speaker 3: I was watching it for the first time, was like,
Speaker 3: oh this is this is my favorite movie. So yeah,
Speaker 3: I love it. But also and that obviously speaks to
Speaker 3: my sort of comedy. What I do, what I what
Speaker 3: I find interesting. But at the same time, like the
Speaker 3: Jeff Daniels and I want to say ace Ventura. Jim
Speaker 3: Carrey like squirting tomato sauce into their faces because they've
Speaker 3: eaten too much chili equally tickles me.
Speaker 1: So you have you read The Orchid Thief before you
Speaker 1: went into the Sea adaptation?
Speaker 3: No? I read The Orchid Thief after. I don't know
Speaker 3: if many people read The Orcadif and then when do
Speaker 3: you know what? I want to see? Adaptation? I don't
Speaker 3: think that's how it works.
Speaker 1: I just would love somebody to have read they thinking
Speaker 1: and hearing that they've either've adapted it now thinking that's
Speaker 1: what they're going to see, And I would love a lot.
Speaker 1: I would love a camera set on their face as
Speaker 1: they're watching a movie, as they realize this is not
Speaker 1: this is not the movie at all.
Speaker 3: It's an unadaptable It's such a fun it's a really
Speaker 3: funny premise as well, because it's a totally unadaptable book.
Speaker 3: It's about flowers, like and so the idea that he's
Speaker 3: this tortured writer trying to write like it's so it's
Speaker 3: it's actually really funny. It's like the whole movie is
Speaker 3: like I feel like that sort of made of stuff.
Speaker 3: And the reason I quite like Charlie Kaufman is because
Speaker 3: it's like, really, they're like really good jokes, those kind
Speaker 3: of sort of surreal well not really surreal, but yeah,
Speaker 3: the kind of absurd stuff that he does is like
Speaker 3: well written jokes.
Speaker 1: Yes, Chris Cooper's also real good in that movie?
Speaker 3: Is he?
Speaker 1: Which one's Chris Cooper is the he.
Speaker 3: Is the Yes? Yes, yeah, he's great. He's so great
Speaker 3: and that whole Meryl Streets sort of descent. And also
Speaker 3: I love like Susan Orlean, like what a good sport
Speaker 3: to agree to be portrayed like that. But also did
Speaker 3: you see recently she had this mad drunken Twitter right, No, oh,
Speaker 3: it was like on Twitter recently. It was just like
Speaker 3: Susan Orlean just got really drunk during lockdown and was
Speaker 3: just like tweeting about how like she like was falling
Speaker 3: over and she her husband would stopped talking to her.
Speaker 3: Like It's just really funny. She's like, I want more Rose.
Speaker 1: I'm like my cat.
Speaker 3: I think my cat hates me. It's great. She's a
Speaker 3: loose unit Susan.
Speaker 1: I wonder if because at that time comes after being
Speaker 1: John Malkovich, and I wonder if she was in Bold
Speaker 1: and to kind of take a chance on Charlie Kaufman,
Speaker 1: knowing that John Malkovich also did a similar kind of
Speaker 1: roll of the dice and take it, you know, take
Speaker 1: his chance on this readson me unknown kind of screenwriter
Speaker 1: and to staggering success that she thought, yeah, why not?
Speaker 3: Why not? She seems cool, susan Oline like, she seems
Speaker 3: like a fun kind of like she's in on the joke.
Speaker 3: But also apparently I don't know if this is a
Speaker 3: myth or something, but I heard that John Malkovich heard
Speaker 3: about the script before being John Malkovich. He wasn't originally involved,
Speaker 3: and he heard about it and he wanted to get
Speaker 3: it shut down. He was like, these people can't just
Speaker 3: use my name. Who's this Charlie Caaufman guy using my name?
Speaker 3: And then he looked at the script. He read the
Speaker 3: script as part of trying to get it shut down,
Speaker 3: and then he went, Okay, you can do it, but
Speaker 3: I have to be in it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that's right. Yeah, I love that story.
Speaker 1: That's great. Have you have you read his book and
Speaker 1: kind No, I haven't. It came out last year. I
Speaker 1: bought it and it's on my bookshelf. It's big, it's
Speaker 1: very big and I need some time. And yes, it's yes,
Speaker 1: it's very big.
Speaker 3: What a recommendation.
Speaker 1: I also, I'm concerned though, that if I don't read
Speaker 1: it in lockdown, when actually am I going to read it.
Speaker 3: You may never read it. It might just be one
Speaker 3: of those ones. Is this Kaufman's book or Calvin's book?
Speaker 3: So right, for a second, I was like, do you
Speaker 3: mean malcol No, he probably does have a book, so doesn't.
Speaker 1: Everyone's got a book. Let's have a chat about this
Speaker 1: nineteen seventy six classic. I was one years old when
Speaker 1: it came out, so I didn't see it in the cinema,
Speaker 1: but I caught it, I think in my late teens
Speaker 1: when I was going through you know, let's watch the
Speaker 1: classics and learn a bit about a cinema that is
Speaker 1: not necessarily a modern day cinema. And I've always loved it,
Speaker 1: and you mentioned earlier you loved it too.
Speaker 3: Yeah it's yeah, I reckon, good job, Marty, you did,
Speaker 3: you did, good mate. It's it's a great it's a
Speaker 3: great little film, really going places. No, I loved it.
Speaker 3: It was it's so I mean, I love that you
Speaker 3: said it before, but it's like so New Yorky and
Speaker 3: that anything that's sort of filmed in that pre Giuliani
Speaker 3: New York where it's like just seedy and but so
Speaker 3: beautiful as well, like all the neon and the kind
Speaker 3: of bars in the streets. It's just so exciting and great.
Speaker 3: So that's and it's all so beautifully captured. And then yeah,
Speaker 3: de Niro just spiraling. De Niro loved it.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I watched it last last lock last year's
Speaker 1: lockdown with my kids, my two older kids, sixteen and eighteen.
Speaker 1: You know, we went through, you know, similar to what
Speaker 1: I was doing when I was their age. You know,
Speaker 1: I showed them good failures and we watched ex Driver Godfather,
Speaker 1: and they loved it. They really loved it. And what
Speaker 1: amazed me so much when I watched it last year
Speaker 1: for the first time in quite a while, was just
Speaker 1: how good it still looks like. And I shouldn't have
Speaker 1: been surprised, but it just it is so beautifully shut.
Speaker 1: The fact that Matain scores at does not get nominated,
Speaker 1: you know, famously, this is one of the Oscars, the
Speaker 1: most famous Oscar snubs. He doesn't get nominated for Best Director.
Speaker 1: He does get four nominations, And we'll go through what
Speaker 1: it lost you know who got nominated and and and
Speaker 1: what one and what who lost? And Paul Schrader does
Speaker 1: not get nominated for Best Screenwriting, which is also just ridiculous.
Speaker 3: It's I mean, yeah, what I'm I'm mad on their behalf. No,
Speaker 3: I'm late to the party.
Speaker 1: What a snub.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna write a placard right to the Academy.
Speaker 1: Right to the Academy, and let's get a hashtag in
Speaker 1: front of it, and let's get something going.
Speaker 3: But it did? Did it win the Palm?
Speaker 1: Dor you won the Palm New York Khan? Yeah, nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy seven.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so, I mean, yeah, it's so it is so beautiful,
Speaker 3: but I love like so weird as well, Like the
Speaker 3: character the story and the character is just so odd actually,
Speaker 3: Like it's just it's quite a bizarre film. I think
Speaker 3: That's what I really enjoyed about is like, what the yeah,
Speaker 3: what is what's like the it feels like the storyline,
Speaker 3: the whole plot is this isn't going to end well,
Speaker 3: like that's the arc.
Speaker 1: Yes, and you've got this kind of that you know,
Speaker 1: you've got this political rally and in the end it's
Speaker 1: almost acting as a red herring. Really it's it's I mean,
Speaker 1: you know, he does go there with bad intentions and
Speaker 1: he gets it gets foiled, but it just you just
Speaker 1: don't like even when even when that all happens, it
Speaker 1: kind of feels like you might be closing and on
Speaker 1: the end that you know, towards the end of the film,
Speaker 1: and you've still got like Jodie Foss's barely even in
Speaker 1: it at that point.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I know, it's sort of it's really I
Speaker 3: just thought it was so great the way it just
Speaker 3: slowly like it's just this really weird slow burn where
Speaker 3: you know that it's not going to end well, even
Speaker 3: though it's sort of kind of does as well. Like
Speaker 3: it's got that last scene where he gets where Civil
Speaker 3: Shepherd is in his taxi or is she like maybe
Speaker 3: she's not even there perhaps, Like it's quite odd the
Speaker 3: way that it ends, and you're like, oh, is this
Speaker 3: just like a happy.
Speaker 1: End the whole thing. I mean, I think that the
Speaker 1: line that Civil Shepherd says about your contradiction, based on
Speaker 1: that Chris Christopher and song, it's kind of exactly kind
Speaker 1: of stunt up the whole thing, the whole character he is,
Speaker 1: is this walking contradiction he's talking about the seediness and
Speaker 1: a scum. Yet he's going to watch you know porno's. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, he's taking drugs, he's popping pills. You know,
Speaker 1: he is part of that system, you know, and he
Speaker 1: he basically he's just he wants to be He wants
Speaker 1: to be an insider in that system, I think, as
Speaker 1: opposed to an outsider in that system.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I love all the sort of like when
Speaker 3: he when he goes to sort of hook well, when
Speaker 3: he pays for well, he doesn't actually pay her though.
Speaker 3: That was one thing that really stuck out to me.
Speaker 3: When he goes to Jodie Foster's pimp and essentially he
Speaker 3: wants to like save her, but he goes to the
Speaker 3: pimp and when they're like, oh you a cop, you're
Speaker 3: a nark, and he's quite sort of offended by that,
Speaker 3: where but at the same time has this sort of
Speaker 3: fantasy that maybe he works for the government. Is Yeah,
Speaker 3: it's that sort of contradiction is really nice, I think,
Speaker 3: But I was so annoyed at him when he does
Speaker 3: spend the time with her, he doesn't have sex with her,
Speaker 3: but he still doesn't pay her the fifteen dollars. Yeah, hey, man,
Speaker 3: give her fifteen bucks.
Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, we know you got this big plan.
Speaker 1: You can still execute that plan. But give her the
Speaker 1: fifteen bucks.
Speaker 3: She's still working, like you know, her time is valuable.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, absolutely. Harvey Kytel perhaps is the creepiest character in
Speaker 1: this film.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. I didn't know Harvey Kytel was in
Speaker 3: this film. So when that character popped up, it was
Speaker 3: so weird, especially because they're so young. It's like it
Speaker 3: was really it was like seeing your dad pop up
Speaker 3: in a whole movie or something like. It was really
Speaker 3: really odd. I kind of was like, who is that?
Speaker 4: Who?
Speaker 3: Oh my god, Harvey Cattell.
Speaker 1: No, no, what are you doing?
Speaker 3: Man?
Speaker 1: There is I Whenever I see Harvey Kaietel with long hair,
Speaker 1: I my brain and can't quite fathom it, Like it
Speaker 1: doesn't work, Like, no, he should never have had long hair.
Speaker 1: Long hair does not suit him whatsoever.
Speaker 3: No. Yeah, And again it's like a dad thing. You're like, oh,
Speaker 3: seeing a photo of your dad in the seventies or something.
Speaker 3: My dad, my dad has a mustache and has my
Speaker 3: whole life, But he didn't any photo of him like
Speaker 3: pre seventies when he was a Catholic priest. Actually, so
Speaker 3: when he left the priest or, he grew a mustache. Wow,
Speaker 3: when you see him before that, it's like, oh, look
Speaker 3: at your top lip.
Speaker 1: Was he aware that Catholic priests were allowed to have mustaches.
Speaker 3: Yeah, they let them in when they the Second Vatican
Speaker 3: Council was like, and you know, we'll turn the altar around.
Speaker 3: The Mass. Isn't in Latin anymore? Priests can have mustaches.
Speaker 1: One of the first things I noticed, you want to
Speaker 1: watch it last year with the kids, was just how
Speaker 1: I quite enjoyed how antiquated and remembering the old taxi
Speaker 1: system it was when he at first see when he's
Speaker 1: applying for the job, and you see, you know, the
Speaker 1: mechanics of people being called out and the taxes coming
Speaker 1: in and out. We're so you know, we've gotten so
Speaker 1: used to uber so quickly that yeah, they'd take me
Speaker 1: back to an idea of like, you know, that's right.
Speaker 1: We had to call cabs and we had to wait
Speaker 1: in lines, and we can never find cabs when we
Speaker 1: wanted them, and you have to hail them on the street.
Speaker 1: Like it's weird how quickly our minds have just gone
Speaker 1: that doesn't that doesn't happen anymore, and we move on. Yeah.
Speaker 3: The bit that got me about that was the guy
Speaker 3: who was like on the microphone, Yeah, sort of corraling
Speaker 3: all the like got that guy just sitting there on
Speaker 3: a mic just doing like M seeing the cabs. That's
Speaker 3: not a job anymore.
Speaker 1: Is it? No? No, not at all. What did you
Speaker 1: think of Travis's diary entries?
Speaker 3: I thought, look, I thought they were great. I thought
Speaker 3: he had a real way with words. No, I thought
Speaker 3: it was really nice. He's subtly done. I think sometimes
Speaker 3: those like in a monology type of things, can be
Speaker 3: really on the nose in a movie. And it felt
Speaker 3: like so organic and good, and and him writing to
Speaker 3: his parents as well was great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I felt like I completely agree. It felt authentic
Speaker 1: because we learned early on that you know, he's got
Speaker 1: he's not highly educated. Like he can't even say where
Speaker 1: he was educated. He says, I a little bit here,
Speaker 1: a little bit there. And it feels to me those letters,
Speaker 1: those diary entries are like a year nine student who's
Speaker 1: trying really hard to be a good writer.
Speaker 3: There's a self consciousness today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, like there's no there's no natural flair or talent,
Speaker 1: but he's but he wants to be a good writer.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, and I think it's Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 3: I mean it's such He's such an interesting character because
Speaker 3: he's kind of horrible the whole time, and he's obviously
Speaker 3: not only not educated, but he's not a smart guy.
Speaker 3: He makes weird it like the way that he relates
Speaker 3: to women. I think that shows up the most where
Speaker 3: it's just like when he takes Sivil Shepherd to the
Speaker 3: porno It's like, dude, she's actually going on a date
Speaker 3: with you, Like you could actually do this. It's just
Speaker 3: really interesting to see all those little decisions that he makes,
Speaker 3: and when he goes to the porno theater on his
Speaker 3: own and is like asking that woman for her name,
Speaker 3: he's just not His logic is all off, and it's
Speaker 3: really interesting to see someone who's logic is off in
Speaker 3: that way because I think so often were used to
Speaker 3: especially now, a lot of narratives are very neat and
Speaker 3: the characters are really clear, and where I think the
Speaker 3: writers are really conscious of making us as the viewer
Speaker 3: know what's going on at all times, whereas with this
Speaker 3: you don't. And I love that. I love not knowing
Speaker 3: what's going on, Yeah, in something, which is why I
Speaker 3: Love Adaptation and heart Beats.
Speaker 1: I really, I really will be watching Heartbeats later on
Speaker 1: this afternoon. Let's talk about Betsy played by Simble Shepherd.
Speaker 1: Were you surprised? So we meet her and she's in
Speaker 1: the Litle campaign office talking to Albert Brooks, first film
Speaker 1: role for Albert Brooks, and she notices that Travis Pickle
Speaker 1: is in his cab outside staring at her.
Speaker 3: Yep, great way to get a goal.
Speaker 1: Feel free to any tips to any fellas listening that
Speaker 1: where Travis went wrong along along the way and then
Speaker 1: and it's making her feel uncomfortable sable Brooks goes out
Speaker 1: and shoes him away basically, but then he approaches her.
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if she makes the connection that was
Speaker 1: the taxi driver because he's not in his uniform and
Speaker 1: not in his cab.
Speaker 3: I think she does, I reckon she does, Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're probably I think you're probably right. But he
Speaker 1: comes in. He's neatly dressed, but he is. So she
Speaker 1: has made that. And what's what is she seeing? What's
Speaker 1: why she go on a date with you? Why is
Speaker 1: she agreed to this date?
Speaker 3: I don't know. I feel like this I'm probably the
Speaker 3: wrong person to ask because as a les, I like,
Speaker 3: why would you ever? Like, why would you? Why would
Speaker 3: you go on a date with any guy? Not just
Speaker 3: that guy, any guy. But I think it did really
Speaker 3: make me think, well, I was watching it the way
Speaker 3: that it's like pre internet and stuff, right, it's pre
Speaker 3: any of that. I kind of feel like that the
Speaker 3: idea of like picking up women, that's just sort of
Speaker 3: what people had to do. Like I feel like every
Speaker 3: film has that in it, like every kind of if
Speaker 3: a guy comes up to you and goes like, Hey,
Speaker 3: what's your name? Should we have a coffee sometime? And
Speaker 3: then sometimes the woman says yes, which I find just
Speaker 3: absolutely confounding because I would be like, no, I'm calling
Speaker 3: the police, even if even if he hadn't been like
Speaker 3: sitting sitting there in the cab. But I guess she's
Speaker 3: kind of like flatted. She's attracted to him. He's intriguing.
Speaker 3: You know, he's a good looking guy.
Speaker 1: He's confident. He is good looking. Isn't he like young DeNiro?
Speaker 3: I think so. I think he is. Yeah, he's got
Speaker 3: a great bod.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not sure if the Chevis pickle exercise
Speaker 1: app is going to be going off anytime soon. That
Speaker 1: that moment where he's got his arm over the blue
Speaker 1: flame is just.
Speaker 3: What the hell is that.
Speaker 1: I'm sure what exercise routine that is, but Jesus.
Speaker 3: He's bloody ripped. Yeah he is. Good on him? Well
Speaker 3: well done de Niro. You really I did, especially because
Speaker 3: we're in lockdown and all going a bit soft at
Speaker 3: this stage. I was just like, oh, man, Like I
Speaker 3: was really thinking about his pre movie, like diet, what
Speaker 3: it must.
Speaker 1: Have been.
Speaker 3: His regime, Like he knew that's a guy who knows
Speaker 3: he's gonna have his shirt off in front of a camera. Yes,
Speaker 3: Like that's he's put effort into that.
Speaker 1: Well, and Danio does put the effort in. I mean
Speaker 1: he famously put on the kgs for Raging Ball and
Speaker 1: for this movie. He was shooting a film in Italy,
Speaker 1: I think called nineteen hundred and he would fly back
Speaker 1: to New York on weekends to drive cabs and then
Speaker 1: fly back to Europe on the monday to shoot.
Speaker 3: That's madness. Yeah, that's I've kind of feel you know,
Speaker 3: when you see you hear stuff like that and you're
Speaker 3: like did you need to I don't know if you
Speaker 3: needed to do that? Like you can drive right, like
Speaker 3: what what are you learning by driving cabs? It's just
Speaker 3: it feels to me like it's they do that so
Speaker 3: that they can say, you know, when I was making
Speaker 3: that move, like it's for the anecdote. It doesn't actually
Speaker 3: make the thing the performance better, does it?
Speaker 1: Because basically you're driving and looking into review the review mirror.
Speaker 1: That's basically what's going on that you that you would
Speaker 1: need to be in a cab or need to be
Speaker 1: in a car to kind of like if you wanted
Speaker 1: to nail that, yeah, there you could.
Speaker 3: You don't you don't have to drive a real cab.
Speaker 1: Do you drive a cab?
Speaker 3: If if Paul Schrader was doing that, I'd be like, okay, yeah,
Speaker 3: I see why you're riding the move Yeah yeah that
Speaker 3: who write it.
Speaker 1: Isn't And I think he did a lot of that,
Speaker 1: and I think he recorded conversations that he heard, you know,
Speaker 1: with cab drivers and where the cabbines would hang out
Speaker 1: and kind of studied and that I can understand as
Speaker 1: opposed to just driving a cab. He actually but already
Speaker 1: when you already won the oscar, I think for Godfather
Speaker 1: parts two. But still so he was driving in the cab,
Speaker 1: he was and it wasn't Fame was different back then.
Speaker 1: It took it took a long time for people to
Speaker 1: be famous as opposed to now where you know, you were,
Speaker 1: you know, your dog pissing on the carpet away from
Speaker 1: you know, being world famous. And so you know, he
Speaker 1: wasn't necessarily getting recognized all the time. And he was
Speaker 1: driving this cab and another actor recognized him and kind
Speaker 1: of said kind of a little bit down about it,
Speaker 1: thinking that, Wow, you've won an oscar and you still
Speaker 1: have to drive cabs, man, Like this is tough.
Speaker 3: Yeah, imagine that. Imagine if he I would like it,
Speaker 3: if he were to start driving cabs now, like that
Speaker 3: would be wouldn't that be great? Imagine if you've got
Speaker 3: an Uber and it was like Robert Dinnio driving the cab.
Speaker 1: I can't believe. Actually, Uber Eats haven't done that as
Speaker 1: one of their commercials. I'm sure that's been often.
Speaker 3: Oh what it should be?
Speaker 1: Wouldn't that be? You have sibilis, ye, but jumping in
Speaker 1: the cat at an Uber and it's robbed the driving it?
Speaker 3: Yeah, I feel like that's an ad against like because
Speaker 3: that's like a deterrent. Like watching this movie, I was
Speaker 3: like I'm never getting in another cap again, Like this
Speaker 3: is horrifying.
Speaker 1: He's a hero, isn't he a hero?
Speaker 3: Yeah? How that shoot him up scene? Though at the
Speaker 3: end totally different vibe to the whole rest of the movie,
Speaker 3: Like it feels like a different genre all of a sudden,
Speaker 3: like it's quite funny. I found myself laughing through that.
Speaker 3: It's so schlocky. All of a sudden, it becomes like
Speaker 3: like all the blood and the kind of mechanisms, like
Speaker 3: it's it's very schlocky. It suddenly becomes like, yeah, funny
Speaker 3: they did.
Speaker 1: He did decolorate. He saturated the blood to get the
Speaker 1: to avoid the R rating. That was one of the
Speaker 1: things he did to to soften it a little bit.
Speaker 1: So it's kind of a brown. It's a brown.
Speaker 3: It doesn't look it doesn't look like real, but it
Speaker 3: looks like tomato sauce.
Speaker 1: Outside of laughing even more barbecue, I would suggest that's zoey.
Speaker 1: But outside of laughing through it. Were you surprised when
Speaker 1: he got shot? Like when I remember when I first
Speaker 1: watched it, even when I watched it last year, I
Speaker 1: kind of forgot that he got shot quite early. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the neck first, you think jeez, he's dying here. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I was. I was more.
Speaker 3: I was more fixated on the guy, like the the
Speaker 3: timekeeper hotel guy who gets shot in the hand and
Speaker 3: then just does the most bizarre performance. Have just been
Speaker 3: like I'm gonna kill you, like while like all that
Speaker 3: blood is spurting out of his hand. It's just kind
Speaker 3: of you can see that actor going like all right,
Speaker 3: like he's been loaded up with all the sort of
Speaker 3: the blood mechanics and all of that sort of special facts,
Speaker 3: and he's like, this is my moment, Like he's there,
Speaker 3: he's loaded, he's locked and ready to go, and he
Speaker 3: just he's really acting harder than anyone in the whole world.
Speaker 1: I agree. And I wonder when that actor was going
Speaker 1: through his motivations, if he had a conversation with Scorsees
Speaker 1: he said, Okay, so why why am I taking this
Speaker 1: guy on who clearly is a maniac, clearly has a gun,
Speaker 1: And I don't why why would I be doing this?
Speaker 3: I feel like his motivation is get the hand in shot,
Speaker 3: Like get the hand in the shot that through the thing.
Speaker 3: He's like, I'm going to cut. He's waving his hand
Speaker 3: at the camera basically just.
Speaker 1: To remind Travis people, this is what you did. In
Speaker 1: case you forgot you did this step.
Speaker 3: It's like he's using to get like a weapon like that.
Speaker 3: He's wants to like, I'm going to get some blood
Speaker 3: on your shirt at the very least. But who shoots him?
Speaker 3: Does he shoot? Does he shoot Travis in the neck?
Speaker 1: No, it's a Harvey Kaytel.
Speaker 3: Oh, Harvey Kaytel.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Who we think is dead?
Speaker 1: The old classic, I think he's dead. They're never dead.
Speaker 1: You gotta shoot them twice, three times.
Speaker 3: If possible to do, especially if they've got long hair
Speaker 3: like that.
Speaker 1: It doesn't work. Harvey, did you the one thing I
Speaker 1: met outside of say hello to my little friend? Were
Speaker 1: you aware that you know you're talking to me? Was
Speaker 1: in this film at all?
Speaker 3: Yes? I was. I worked out pretty I did work
Speaker 3: it out before I watched it. I said to my partner,
Speaker 3: is taxi driver say hello to my little friend? Or
Speaker 3: is it are you talking to me?
Speaker 1: Or is it both?
Speaker 3: And she said it's are you talking to me?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I never actually seen that.
Speaker 1: Let's actually have a quick quick listen to that scene.
Speaker 1: This is Deneio improvising these lines.
Speaker 4: You're talking to me, You're talking to me, talking to me?
Speaker 2: Who the hell are.
Speaker 4: You talking talking to me? Well, I'm the only one here.
Speaker 2: The fuck do you think you're talking to.
Speaker 1: Oh? Yeah, m hmm, okay, h h yeah. So he
Speaker 1: improvises a lot of that, and he got it from
Speaker 1: apparently he went and saw Bruce Springsteen in concert and
Speaker 1: the crowd was yelling out, you know, the boss, the boss,
Speaker 1: and kind of you know, kind of feigning humility. Springsteen
Speaker 1: was doing a bit of what you're talking to me?
Speaker 1: You're talking about? Am I the boss? You're talking to me?
Speaker 1: And that's and that's where DeNiro takes it.
Speaker 3: That's really funny. That's wow. I wonder how Springsteen feels
Speaker 3: about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I reckon he's I mean, as if.
Speaker 3: He needs more like if he's like, you know what,
Speaker 3: I'm a the boss and b are you talking to me?
Speaker 3: That's me?
Speaker 1: Yeah. I wonder how many times actually he tells people that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, you'd have a lot of if you
Speaker 3: were Springsteen and he's Springsteen seems to me like a
Speaker 3: like a kind of cool guy.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: You'd hope he doesn't brag too much because he's got
Speaker 3: too much to break it down.
Speaker 1: You'd hope you get to the point and I'm not
Speaker 1: there yet where where you don't have to brag anymore,
Speaker 1: Like it's just you know, there's enough, there's enough gold
Speaker 1: records on your wall.
Speaker 3: Yeah, talking because you don't want to be like, hey,
Speaker 3: I'm Springsteen. You may know me as the Boss. Did
Speaker 3: you know Robert de Niro copied me. People would be like.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we know, we know that you told us. You
Speaker 1: told us last dinner party, Bruce, Yeah, we know, we know.
Speaker 1: I mean, I do love. You've got to spoken about
Speaker 1: the ambiguity of this Travis's motives in a way like
Speaker 1: we just don't really know what his plan is. It's
Speaker 1: even a bit murky when his plan even really begins,
Speaker 1: Like the turning point seems to be that the date
Speaker 1: when he's completely shocked that Betsy didn't want to go
Speaker 1: see a porno on their first date. It feels like
Speaker 1: a third date thing to me.
Speaker 3: And it also looks like one of those films that
Speaker 3: were like, it's not really a porno either likes. It's
Speaker 3: like one of those like nineteen seventies to get around
Speaker 3: the ratings thing. It's like an educational film or something. Yes,
Speaker 3: like he could have maybe if he'd taken it to
Speaker 3: a proper good porner. I would like it.
Speaker 1: That's what kind of grinded her gears, just like, yes,
Speaker 1: it's not real porn. This isn't doing it for me, mate,
Speaker 1: he does, because he says, you know, there are other couples.
Speaker 1: I've seen other couples here. So it's interesting where he's
Speaker 1: taking these social cues from. It's not from nowhere like
Speaker 1: he does. He has seen them, but not realizing that
Speaker 1: these are probably people in long term relationships who or
Speaker 1: you know, he's.
Speaker 3: Seen men taking hookers in there. I think that's probably that, right.
Speaker 3: Like the thing I like about it feels like this
Speaker 3: character is like an alien who's come to Earth and
Speaker 3: doesn't know how anything works, and it's just sort of
Speaker 3: like working it out. Like it feels like a very weird,
Speaker 3: sort of fish out of water type of thing where
Speaker 3: he doesn't pick up any social cues. He's sort of
Speaker 3: just floating around. He's not attached to anyone or anything
Speaker 3: in any way, and he's just bizarre, That's what I
Speaker 3: really So it's untethered, so it has this kind of
Speaker 3: like chaotic energy to it.
Speaker 1: And he really sees himself as a master people reader,
Speaker 1: like he like, he like, and he's he's kind of
Speaker 1: the opposite kind of It is kind of fun to
Speaker 1: watch like that. He's that he kind of knows, he
Speaker 1: knows what's going on. He's he's almost a he's a prophet,
Speaker 1: you know, he can he can understand the people's motives,
Speaker 1: why they're doing this, the energy between us. We have
Speaker 1: a connection. You don't have a connection with that guy.
Speaker 3: And yeah, and he's totally wrong.
Speaker 1: He's totally wrong.
Speaker 3: Totally wrong all the time. But who the person who
Speaker 3: is a good read? Who is Jodie Foster? She's such
Speaker 3: a great interesting I mean, she's so talented, she's so
Speaker 3: amazing in this movie, that scene where they're talking in
Speaker 3: the cafe and she's sort of like she is reading him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, let's have a listen to that scene. Actually is
Speaker 1: Jodie Foster and Robert de Niro.
Speaker 3: Why do you want me to go back to my parents?
Speaker 3: I mean they hate me. Why do you think I
Speaker 3: spot in the first place? There are at nothing there?
Speaker 4: Yeah, but you can't live like this, It's a hell.
Speaker 4: The girls you'll live at home?
Speaker 3: Can you ever hear of Women's Live?
Speaker 1: What do you mean Women's Live?
Speaker 3: You you're a young girl.
Speaker 4: You should be at home now, you should be dressed up,
Speaker 4: you should be going out with boys, you should be
Speaker 4: going to school. You know what, that kind of stuff. God,
Speaker 4: he's square. Hey, I'm not square.
Speaker 1: You're the one that square.
Speaker 4: You're full of ship, man, What are you talking about?
Speaker 4: And you can walk out with those fucking creeps and
Speaker 4: low lives and degenerates out on the street and you
Speaker 4: sell you sell you a little pussy for nothing man,
Speaker 4: for some low life pimp stands in a hall.
Speaker 1: I'm I'm square. You're the one that's square.
Speaker 4: Man. I don't go school and fuck with a bunch
Speaker 4: of killers and junkies.
Speaker 1: The way you do you call that being hip?
Speaker 3: What were you from?
Speaker 1: The one thing that really seems to a friend Travis
Speaker 1: is being accused of not being hip and being square
Speaker 1: like sport sport happy Cartel accused him of not being hip,
Speaker 1: and he kind of is offended by and then again
Speaker 1: there it seems to really really get up in the grille.
Speaker 3: Yeah it really, Yeah, it really does. It's so interesting
Speaker 3: because he's such a like vigilante wants to clean up
Speaker 3: the streets. It's all that kind of weird like like
Speaker 3: from the start, it's like the scum of the streets
Speaker 3: come out Queen's fairies. I want to just clean up
Speaker 3: the streets. But then it's like, well, he kind of is.
Speaker 3: He's kind of casting himself. He is a bit of
Speaker 3: a cop. He is an arc because in the end
Speaker 3: he comes in and tries to well, he shoots them all.
Speaker 3: But it's yeah, which is I think, pretty unhip thing
Speaker 3: to do, but it's yeah, it's so. That's such. It's
Speaker 3: such a weird conversation, isn't it. Where he's like, you're square.
Speaker 3: You're the one who's a twelve year old prostitute. That's
Speaker 3: really unhip. What is your logic there? Man?
Speaker 1: And you and you're those green glasses. They are weird.
Speaker 1: They're not hip. They're hip. My my ray bands are hip.
Speaker 1: Jodie Foster is so good in this. She had done
Speaker 1: some acting before she comes to this movie, not as
Speaker 1: an amateur. She's been in quite a bit, but she's
Speaker 1: twelve years old playing a a sex worker. It's a
Speaker 1: pretty phenomenal performance.
Speaker 3: It is. It is questionable, but phenomenal. She's so amazing
Speaker 3: because she even in that way, the way that she
Speaker 3: speaks like she's such a little adult she's so amazing,
Speaker 3: Like her acting chops is just like incredible. The tone,
Speaker 3: it's like she's pitch perfect. I think had she just
Speaker 3: come off doing Freaky Friday, Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think she'd done Freaky Friday and a couple of
Speaker 1: other things as well.
Speaker 3: Bugs Him Alone, Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Bugs Him Alone. So they used her sister, who's basically
Speaker 1: the same height and shapes her as a body double
Speaker 1: in the scenes. I imagine that quite creepy scene when Harvey
Speaker 1: Kaittell is they're dancing and then they kiss. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: so she's I think she would have been age twenty,
Speaker 1: so I think they would have used her there in
Speaker 1: some of those shots.
Speaker 3: Some of those shots, Yeah, I was. I knew that
Speaker 3: they used her sister. And I mean because it's not
Speaker 3: super explicit anything that she does, it's sort of I mean,
Speaker 3: she's twelve, so it's pretty wild. It makes me think
Speaker 3: of what was the one? Was it Brookshields in Blue Lagoon?
Speaker 3: Blue Lagoon. But then there's one that she was in
Speaker 3: before that called like Baby Doll. She plays a child
Speaker 3: prostitute as well. It's like a French period film thing.
Speaker 3: It's grim. I thought that it was quite well treated,
Speaker 3: like it didn't feel too like titillating and salacious the
Speaker 3: way that she you know, it's grim. It's a horrible
Speaker 3: sort of scenario, but it doesn't. And Harvey Hotel is
Speaker 3: totally creepy. But I thought the way that it sort
Speaker 3: of handled is kind of good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think with Jody Fash, like you said,
Speaker 1: you can see that the little adult in her, but
Speaker 1: you've still always seen this child and that conversation. You know,
Speaker 1: the fact she's always coming back to she's putting so
Speaker 1: much importance in horoscopes to make life decisions.
Speaker 3: Classic lesbian.
Speaker 1: The robbery kind of also is quite quite interesting. You know,
Speaker 1: it happens, it's like nothing. Yeah, and that's what's kind
Speaker 1: of what makes it bit full on that there's no consequences.
Speaker 1: It almost allows him to think, okay, I got away
Speaker 1: with that. That was easier then I thought. It kind
Speaker 1: of emboldens him. I guess it's pretty tragic watching that,
Speaker 1: you know. I imagine it was probably hard in nineteen
Speaker 1: seventy six to watch it, but you know, to watch
Speaker 1: it now and the sea oh, you know, a black
Speaker 1: man shot down and then just nothing happened. In fact,
Speaker 1: he gets beaten even in that yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a pretty weird. I thought that scene was
Speaker 3: so it's so shocking because it's just not shocking at all,
Speaker 3: Like there's no drama at all in it. It's so
Speaker 3: different to the shoot him up at the end, which
Speaker 3: is so like it reminded me of you know, like
Speaker 3: those rule kind of big grady like Kung Fu type
Speaker 3: of movies where they'll have like all prosthetics and stuff
Speaker 3: like that's what that end felt like. It felt like
Speaker 3: a totally different thing, whereas that scene in the bodega
Speaker 3: where he yeah shoots that guy is like so it
Speaker 3: just feels very real, feels almost pedestrian, like he's just like.
Speaker 1: Well, originally one of the earliest scripts, all of these
Speaker 1: the people he killed were all going to be black,
Speaker 1: so it was all like, I love it was going
Speaker 1: to be racially. I'm really glad. I'm glad that didn't happen.
Speaker 1: Same well, yeah, I mean and not just you know,
Speaker 1: not just for obvious reasons, but I think it's just
Speaker 1: it kind of I like the murkiness of how we've
Speaker 1: spoken about a lot already, the murkiness of how we're
Speaker 1: supposed to feel towards Travis and I like the fact
Speaker 1: that his target, like I'm not sure if he knows
Speaker 1: who he's angry at. We think it's going to be
Speaker 1: the politician.
Speaker 3: Well, and it is. He's fully going to shoot the politician.
Speaker 1: Even though he's mad. Politician was actually quite nice of him,
Speaker 1: I think by politician standards, like he genuinely seemed to
Speaker 1: listen to him and I want feedback. So he's going
Speaker 1: he's going to basically kill him as a result. Nothing
Speaker 1: to do with politics or any kind of policy or platform.
Speaker 1: It's just because he's been rejected by civil Sibil Shepherd,
Speaker 1: by Betsy and I and then and then and then
Speaker 1: basically he's getting back at you know, this gum who
Speaker 1: had their way with Iris. But I think if you
Speaker 1: add a racially motivated a gender into that, it kind
Speaker 1: of it's not as it's not as interesting.
Speaker 3: No, I mean, there's certainly a lot of racism in
Speaker 3: the movie, and there's certainly a lot of that horrible
Speaker 3: that Martin Scorsese is the guy in the in the
Speaker 3: cab who's watching his spying on his wife who's having
Speaker 3: an affair with the black man. That's one of the
Speaker 3: most disturbing scenes in the movie. I think that really
Speaker 3: horrifying Mark Scorsese talking about how he's going to kill
Speaker 3: his worfe Yeah, I think that the murkiness the strangest
Speaker 3: is because we don't really know what he's motivated by.
Speaker 3: And I think it's almost like I don't know if
Speaker 3: he's killing the gangsters at the you know, sex Hotel
Speaker 3: and Harvey Cartel because they're trafficking all because he called
Speaker 3: him unhip, Like I think it's it might be he's
Speaker 3: like kills Harvey Cartel because he's like a bit disrespectful
Speaker 3: to him. Like that feels like as much the motivation.
Speaker 3: I mean, obviously he's kind of like I'm going to
Speaker 3: clean up these mean streets sort of in like a
Speaker 3: but also I'm not a cop, man, I'm so not
Speaker 3: a cop. I'm going to shoot you. It's like really weird.
Speaker 1: With my mayork, which is pretty bloody hip so hip. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's he's got some some balls with the When he
Speaker 1: goes up to the security guard, it's almost like a
Speaker 1: little almost just a seeing get away, like a practice run, Steve,
Speaker 1: he can get away with being having this gunn contraption
Speaker 1: kind of shakes hands with his left hand and like
Speaker 1: had this conversation with a security guard. It's pretty ballsy.
Speaker 3: It is ballsy, but it's also so stupid. I think
Speaker 3: that he kind of thinks that he's like, oh, they
Speaker 3: don't like I can just fly under the radar, and
Speaker 3: he's so obviously like a terrorist like that. He couldn't
Speaker 3: be more obvious about it. But then yeah, and then
Speaker 3: he comes back with the mohawk. I like it. I
Speaker 3: think there's something about you're like, I don't know what
Speaker 3: you're doing or why, and I don't think you do either.
Speaker 3: It's nice, yeah, to see that like murkiness.
Speaker 1: Did you get ahead of yourself as far as trying
Speaker 1: to work out what was going to happen, like when
Speaker 1: he goes back to that second rally with the mohawk,
Speaker 1: Did you play that play out in the scenarios in
Speaker 1: your own head?
Speaker 3: Not really. I kind of had his sense and probably
Speaker 3: I think maybe I just knew this biosmost that he
Speaker 3: was gonna he was going to shoot the pimp, Like
Speaker 3: I think that was this that I had a sense
Speaker 3: that that's where it was heading. I think I knew
Speaker 3: that there was I think maybe i'd read like an
Speaker 3: interview with Jodie Foster talking about like she had enjoyed
Speaker 3: making the film, especially that scene, the violent scene, because
Speaker 3: there's not a controversy about it, right, people were like, oh,
Speaker 3: very violent. Yeah, And I think that she. I knew
Speaker 3: that she had been interested in the fake blood, so
Speaker 3: I knew there was fake blood, and I knew it
Speaker 3: was going to be around Jodie Foster. Yeah, So I
Speaker 3: was like, Oh, that politician's fine.
Speaker 1: I wanted to talk about the oscars, who got nominated,
Speaker 1: who won. This is nineteen seventy seven, so it's a
Speaker 1: good year for movies. I mean, I think that Your
Speaker 1: Driver was snub particularly in the directing mistakes. The best
Speaker 1: director that year was John G. Evilson, who won for
Speaker 1: a little film called Rockie, which won Best Picture that year.
Speaker 1: I had this discussion with Chris Walker. Actually we did Network,
Speaker 1: which is also this year, and Peter Finch and Aussie
Speaker 1: won Best Actor that year, and he said to me,
Speaker 1: do you feel ripped off that networkause we love Network?
Speaker 1: That Network didn't win over Rocky, And I said, surprisingly,
Speaker 1: I'm not. And in a way, I don't even have
Speaker 1: a massive issue with Rockie winning over Taxi Driver.
Speaker 3: Rookie is great, Rocky is great, He is great.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's lasted a test of time. It's at all
Speaker 1: these It became a franchise, but without you know, like,
Speaker 1: I'm not sure if that was part of the plan
Speaker 1: or not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Where's Taxi Driver too? Huh So.
Speaker 1: Jodie Foss is nominated for Best Supporting Actress loses out
Speaker 1: The Beaches Straight from Network. Patty Jayevsky wins the Best
Speaker 1: Writer for for Network. Don't have a problem with that,
Speaker 1: but Poorstraders should have absolutely been nominated. And the score,
Speaker 1: Bernard Herman was nominated twice that year, the Taxi Driver
Speaker 1: and another film called Obsession. The score goes A guy
Speaker 1: called Jerry Goldsmith did the score for the Omen.
Speaker 3: I love that soundtrack. I listened to it. I listened
Speaker 3: to it while I run.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I listened to it when I work. It's my
Speaker 1: working soundtrack. Whenever I write Frankie Fish, I'm always listening
Speaker 1: to the score. Yeah, yep, you got kids something to
Speaker 1: think about. But Herman, Bernard Herman, who's the composer, and
Speaker 1: he composed Citizen Kane, he did Psycho, did north By Northwest.
Speaker 1: He composed the recording sessions on the twenty third of
Speaker 1: December nineteen seventy five and goes back to his hotel
Speaker 1: room and goes to sleep, passes away in his sleep,
Speaker 1: literally hours after finishing the score of Taxi Dripman.
Speaker 3: Wow, what was he old?
Speaker 1: He was in the early sixties. I don't think there's
Speaker 1: anything salacious or suspicious about it. He died and they
Speaker 1: still don't give him the oscars and it's a good
Speaker 1: it's a fantastic it's a good score.
Speaker 3: Well, I guess they were like, well, we want most
Speaker 3: of it on the dead guy. He won't even show
Speaker 3: after the ceremony.
Speaker 1: He's gonna be the in the in memorium package. That's enough.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's that's recognition enough.
Speaker 1: We don't want to become bird of herme and conscious.
Speaker 3: That's weird. Wow, that's so bizarre.
Speaker 1: Some other fun facts for years before we wrap this
Speaker 1: up is this may make you hate Portrader. Okay, but
Speaker 1: he didn't He didn't see a movie until he was
Speaker 1: twenty one.
Speaker 3: Why did he not see a movie till he was
Speaker 3: twenty one?
Speaker 1: Was he he had strict parents of the religious type,
Speaker 1: and so.
Speaker 3: Then he saw And when how old was he when
Speaker 3: he wrote his first movie?
Speaker 1: So he was born in nineteen forty six. Let's do
Speaker 1: the side to see his first film in nineteen sixty seven.
Speaker 1: So basically, this movie comes out nine years after he's
Speaker 1: seen his first film, which means he's probably written it.
Speaker 1: I heard that Scores says he maybe saw this scripts
Speaker 1: in seventy three, it couldn't quite get it made, had
Speaker 1: the wait a couple of years. So he's basically written
Speaker 1: Taxi Driver about six years after seeing his first film.
Speaker 3: Yeah, that makes sense. I think that's why it's so good.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna I think it's he's not been clouded with
Speaker 3: the you know, everything that we've been saying that we
Speaker 3: like about it. It's like quite murky. You don't really
Speaker 3: know what his motivations are. It's very weird. He's a
Speaker 3: very strange character who doesn't kind of make sense. What
Speaker 3: I'm saying is you never get Taxi Driver made.
Speaker 1: Now I completely agree agree.
Speaker 3: This guy doesn't make sense at all. What's the ark?
Speaker 3: The arc is just something bad's gonna happen, and then
Speaker 3: it sort of does but also doesn't, and then he's
Speaker 3: fine in the end.
Speaker 1: That's not a movie. The Letter from the Dad is
Speaker 1: a nice touch. Every time I've watched it. I still
Speaker 1: don't know how to feel about Travis people, which is
Speaker 1: like amazing.
Speaker 3: It's great. Well, it's a it's a really weird portrait.
Speaker 3: It's like a kind of it's this. It makes sense
Speaker 3: to me that Paul Traiter hadn't seen a movie till
Speaker 3: he was twenty one, because it feels like it's approaching
Speaker 3: character and narrative in a quite fresh different way where
Speaker 3: it's just like, let's spend some time with this really
Speaker 3: weird guy and just paint that very odd portrait.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He he also writes Raging Ball of years after that,
Speaker 1: So he's a legend. There's no doubt about that. Knows
Speaker 1: what he's doing, knows what he's doing. What did you
Speaker 1: think when Civil Shepherd's in a cab at the end,
Speaker 1: when Betsy's in the cab basically the final shot, What
Speaker 1: did you take out of that? Well?
Speaker 3: I thought it was weird because all of a sudden
Speaker 3: it was like the last scene of a rom com
Speaker 3: or something where it's like, oh and then she is
Speaker 3: like I read about you in the paper. It's like, yeah,
Speaker 3: it was a really weird, like well happy ending. But
Speaker 3: then there's a shot like sort of just after she
Speaker 3: gets out where he does this. Really you'd kind of
Speaker 3: quick look at the rearview mirror and then it's like, well,
Speaker 3: neon and stuff, and it's like it made me feel
Speaker 3: a bit like crazy, and I think that's the thing.
Speaker 3: It's like, maybe he's just nuts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, is she there? There's been theories over the years
Speaker 1: about whether it was either a dream or visions in
Speaker 1: Travis's own head, but Scorsese has said I think, and
Speaker 1: Schrader has said no, that this all happens he's alive,
Speaker 1: because some of them thought he actually has a theory
Speaker 1: that he actually did die and this is all you know,
Speaker 1: dream stuff afterwards, which I don't like that, you know,
Speaker 1: And I woke up and.
Speaker 3: It was all a dreams classic ending.
Speaker 1: Classic ending.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: Taxi Driver actually ends in the same way as Wizard was.
Speaker 1: It is a fun fact. Scorsese fills in for another
Speaker 1: actor who heard his back in another production. That's why
Speaker 1: he's in that because actually he's in it twice because
Speaker 1: he's in is sitting when Sybil Sheper we first see
Speaker 1: Sybil Shepherd and she walks into the building. When Travis
Speaker 1: first sees him in slow motion, he is sitting with
Speaker 1: his back to the wall, looking at her as she
Speaker 1: walks in. It kind of makes sense that he's in
Speaker 1: it twice, because then he probably didn't know who's going
Speaker 1: to play the troll. I have to say, he knocks
Speaker 1: that little performance out of the park. He's at sturbing scene.
Speaker 1: It's really great.
Speaker 3: He's really good. Yeah, he's great. Well, he knows exactly
Speaker 3: what he's trying to do. I guess he's in a
Speaker 3: lot of his films, isn't he.
Speaker 1: I think he does pop up a bit. He's not
Speaker 1: quite to the same way as Hitchcock. No, but he
Speaker 1: does doesn't mind jumping in.
Speaker 3: Yeah, doesn't mind mucky in if he needs to.
Speaker 1: He did say he did have the world's best acting
Speaker 1: coach in the front seat when he did that scene,
Speaker 1: which is you know, a fair point. One last little
Speaker 1: fun fact, and that is that there actually was a
Speaker 1: garbage strike in New York City when they shot this,
Speaker 1: so that ad it nicely to the aesthetic of New
Speaker 1: York City and the griminess of the streets. It was,
Speaker 1: it was. It came up a treat beautiful.
Speaker 3: It made me miss New York. It's still like that, well,
Speaker 3: last time I was there, it's sort of still like that.
Speaker 3: There's no real garbage system in New York. They're just like, yeah,
Speaker 3: just chuck it on the chuck it on the sidewalk. Yeah,
Speaker 3: someone will pick it up at some point.
Speaker 1: It's a great city. It's a fun city. It's a
Speaker 1: bit of a stinky city. Yeah, yeah, there's there's wafts.
Speaker 1: There's no doubt about that. Hey, Zoe koons Mart, thank
Speaker 1: you this podcast country homework. I appreciate you doing it,
Speaker 1: and you know, thank thank you so much for for
Speaker 1: hanging out with us.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for having me.
Speaker 1: That was fun. Thanks to Zoe kuns Mart. She's fantastic
Speaker 1: and you can patch it also at the Grapes of
Speaker 1: Mirth in Settlesfield on the twenty third and twenty fourth
Speaker 1: of October. It's a wine, comedy and podcast festival where
Speaker 1: we will be doing our very first live you Ain't
Speaker 1: Seen Nothing Yet podcast. That is the plan. I will
Speaker 1: I will confirm the movie and the guest asap, asap.
Speaker 1: That's as soon as possible. I'm sure you knew that
Speaker 1: Derek Myers from Castaways Studios is the man who puts
Speaker 1: all the bits together for this podcast. Derek, you hadn't
Speaker 1: seen Taxi Driver this week. I'll believe you watched it
Speaker 1: last night. I did.
Speaker 2: I watched it last night, and oh my god, I
Speaker 2: got Yeah, I felt like I got ambushed, probably by
Speaker 2: my own preconceptions, because I thought it was an interesting
Speaker 2: bio on a guy's observations driving a cab around New
Speaker 2: York and that was it. So put about halfway through
Speaker 2: things changed a little bit from my expectations. It was amazing. Wow,
Speaker 2: what a film.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it moves it this really quitely unique pace, particularly
Speaker 1: in nineteen seventy six. It's very European feel to it.
Speaker 1: But stuff does happen. I've seen films like this where
Speaker 1: it is the internal monologue of the protagonist, but it
Speaker 1: doesn't feel like it goes anywhere. This actually stuff does happen,
Speaker 1: and it really does get to a place. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: love it. I think it's a masterpiece.
Speaker 2: Oh and I've been watching Godfather of Harlem and I've
Speaker 2: been watching and I watched the get Down, so these
Speaker 2: kind of new stylized sort of versions and this was
Speaker 2: then and there. Yeah, this was New York in seventy six.
Speaker 2: It wasn't a period, no, no, it was just an
Speaker 2: amazing thing to see after these other shows I've been
Speaker 2: watching about that yeah.
Speaker 1: It was beautifully made. Reach out to us at yasny
Speaker 1: podcast at gmail dot com. Lots of love coming in
Speaker 1: and also you can help us by jumping on iTunes
Speaker 1: and giving us a rating. We recommend five stars, but
Speaker 1: also leaving a review. We got one from Jojo Mack
Speaker 1: which is the melicaly Young episode is the best. Love her,
Speaker 1: love this chat, love this movie, Love, Love Love five
Speaker 1: stars lasted Leon did when Harry met Sally. She is wonderful.
Speaker 1: She will also be at the Grapes of Mirth. Everyone's
Speaker 1: going to be at the Grapes of Mirth Festival. And
Speaker 1: then it's on one by I Trance as well, who
Speaker 1: says five stars. Absolutely love this podcast. Thank you to
Speaker 1: Pete for the amazing research you do when you're putting
Speaker 1: the show together. Thank you. It's a pleasure, not a
Speaker 1: sure he or she says, I have always or they say,
Speaker 1: I've always been a fan of planes, trains, and automobiles.
Speaker 1: So I really enjoyed the recent episode, especially all of
Speaker 1: the fun facts and behind the scenes info that you shared.
Speaker 1: I watched the film two nights in a row after
Speaker 1: listening to the episode. Do you have a top three
Speaker 1: worst films you've ever seen, and that is by at
Speaker 1: least from Hillside. Thank you a lease. I don't have
Speaker 1: three worst films. I try to be positive and kind
Speaker 1: of just put my efforts and energies into the things
Speaker 1: I like, so I don't necessarily have a worse film.
Speaker 1: I can tell you the one film I've walked out of,
Speaker 1: and that was in Bed with Madonna. Couldn't couldn't get
Speaker 1: through it, So I walked out of that one. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I couldn't tell you what my worst film is. But
Speaker 1: my top three films, as I've shared a few times,
Speaker 1: is to Go f Other Part two, Sideways and Playing
Speaker 1: Strains and Automobiles, which we cover with Georgia Towney a
Speaker 1: couple of weeks ago. Lots of love, lots of love
Speaker 1: of that episode and Georgia Toney, So keep them coming
Speaker 1: next week on the show we are staying in the seventies.
Speaker 1: We have a very funny comedian. She has been bringing
Speaker 1: so much joy to a lot of people during this
Speaker 1: hard lockdown with her Zoom shows. It is Kirsty Webeck.
Speaker 1: She is, like I said, hilarious and joyce. That's all
Speaker 1: you need to know. Follow her on Twitter at Kersey
Speaker 1: Webeck w E b E c K and you get
Speaker 1: a taste of what curse is like. And next week
Speaker 1: she'll be joining us. I'm really excited by this. We
Speaker 1: will be watching Alien for nineteen seventy nine Ridley Scott
Speaker 1: Sigourney Weaver in one of the most iconic film roles
Speaker 1: of any time, playing Ripley. I can't wait to revisit
Speaker 1: it against Minna Wiles as I've watched it, and I
Speaker 1: can't wait for Curty to see it. And it's gonna
Speaker 1: be a lot of fun. So join us. Then, if
Speaker 1: you are in lockdown, stay happy, stay healthy, or get
Speaker 1: happy or get healthy, reach out to people, family friends,
Speaker 1: any services that might be able to help. It is
Speaker 1: extremely tough on everyone, and I hope you're all doing okay.
Speaker 1: There will be another side to this shitty situation. And
Speaker 1: in the meantime, watch movies in a weird way. They
Speaker 1: can help. I know they put me in pretty good headspace.
Speaker 1: Thanks a lot until next time. Next week, Kirsty Weebeck
Speaker 1: and Alien and you ain't see nothing yet, babe. And
Speaker 1: so we leave all Pete Sae Mansel and to our
Speaker 1: friends of the radio audience, we've been a pleasant, good
Speaker 1: day