1 00:00:10,669 --> 00:00:14,869 Speaker 1: My Heart podcasts, hear More Kids podcasts, playlists, and listen 2 00:00:14,909 --> 00:00:16,268 Speaker 1: live on the Free Hard. 3 00:00:17,829 --> 00:00:19,549 Speaker 2: It feels like there couldn't be a more point in 4 00:00:19,589 --> 00:00:22,909 Speaker 2: time to be talking about mental health. With the passing 5 00:00:23,069 --> 00:00:29,509 Speaker 2: of another cell Wood brother in the AFL recently last week, 6 00:00:29,549 --> 00:00:33,429 Speaker 2: it was really full on if you're not across that obviously, 7 00:00:33,469 --> 00:00:36,949 Speaker 2: Troy Sellwood passed away and then Adam Selwood's twin brother 8 00:00:38,668 --> 00:00:41,308 Speaker 2: most recently, and it's just shocking, and I think everybody 9 00:00:41,388 --> 00:00:44,829 Speaker 2: is shocked. I think scared is starting to be the 10 00:00:44,869 --> 00:00:46,629 Speaker 2: word that sort of creeps in and around this at 11 00:00:46,668 --> 00:00:47,028 Speaker 2: the moment. 12 00:00:47,069 --> 00:00:49,509 Speaker 3: I'm suicide at this level. 13 00:00:49,269 --> 00:00:51,188 Speaker 1: I think people might have had the same experience as me. 14 00:00:51,269 --> 00:00:54,429 Speaker 1: When I saw the news pop up on Saturday, I 15 00:00:54,469 --> 00:00:57,188 Speaker 1: assumed there was a typo with the news because you know, 16 00:00:57,309 --> 00:01:01,469 Speaker 1: that was months ago that Troy Sellwood passed away. But 17 00:01:01,589 --> 00:01:05,389 Speaker 1: to think that his twin brother also goes months later, Yep. 18 00:01:05,909 --> 00:01:10,029 Speaker 1: It's really hard to put words too how devastating it is. 19 00:01:10,429 --> 00:01:15,109 Speaker 2: Yeah, and almost nonsensical for people that on the outside 20 00:01:15,109 --> 00:01:17,349 Speaker 2: this is the great tragedy with suicide, and people on 21 00:01:17,349 --> 00:01:20,509 Speaker 2: the outside who look happy, you know, healthy, have had 22 00:01:20,549 --> 00:01:23,469 Speaker 2: a lot in their lives they've been successful, they've known success, 23 00:01:23,869 --> 00:01:27,029 Speaker 2: they've got families. The idea of ending your life prematurely 24 00:01:27,069 --> 00:01:28,829 Speaker 2: seems like the most foreign thing in the world, and 25 00:01:28,909 --> 00:01:31,749 Speaker 2: yet tragically, for a lot of these people in this position, 26 00:01:31,829 --> 00:01:33,989 Speaker 2: that is the only opportunity, that's the only thing they 27 00:01:33,989 --> 00:01:36,069 Speaker 2: have left to do, which just doesn't make a lot 28 00:01:36,069 --> 00:01:38,349 Speaker 2: of sense. I don't think it's worth exploring why and 29 00:01:38,389 --> 00:01:41,869 Speaker 2: how people at that point get here, and hence how 30 00:01:41,909 --> 00:01:43,749 Speaker 2: for everyone listening right now you can think a little 31 00:01:43,749 --> 00:01:47,188 Speaker 2: bit more about how something like suicide might impact your life. Look, 32 00:01:47,229 --> 00:01:49,109 Speaker 2: the lifeline number is thir ten eleven fourteen. If you 33 00:01:49,109 --> 00:01:50,589 Speaker 2: want to talk to somebody and you need to speak 34 00:01:50,589 --> 00:01:52,349 Speaker 2: to someone right now, that's a great service we've got 35 00:01:52,349 --> 00:01:55,669 Speaker 2: in Australia. We've got Hugh Van Kyleenberg from the Resilience 36 00:01:55,709 --> 00:01:57,789 Speaker 2: Project and The Imperfects who joins us right now. 37 00:01:58,109 --> 00:02:00,909 Speaker 3: Hugh, great to have you back on, Will and Woody. 38 00:02:01,269 --> 00:02:03,069 Speaker 2: So the reason we've got you on today obviously you've 39 00:02:03,069 --> 00:02:05,709 Speaker 2: got a wealth of experience in the mental health space. 40 00:02:06,069 --> 00:02:09,429 Speaker 2: Anyone listening to The Imperfects would know that. But specifically 41 00:02:10,228 --> 00:02:12,828 Speaker 2: you've worked with a lot of elite sports teams. Mate, 42 00:02:12,869 --> 00:02:14,388 Speaker 2: could you give us a bit of a layer of 43 00:02:14,389 --> 00:02:15,668 Speaker 2: the land there who you've worked with. 44 00:02:16,269 --> 00:02:20,429 Speaker 4: Yeahs, thanks for having me on. Yeah, it's so sad. 45 00:02:20,469 --> 00:02:23,469 Speaker 4: I just feel so sad today and have for the 46 00:02:23,509 --> 00:02:25,909 Speaker 4: last couple of days on this. But I yeah, I 47 00:02:25,949 --> 00:02:30,149 Speaker 4: have been so so lucky to work with I guess 48 00:02:30,189 --> 00:02:32,589 Speaker 4: like twelve of the AFL teams, all of every one 49 00:02:32,589 --> 00:02:35,029 Speaker 4: of the NRL teams, every one of the I League teams, 50 00:02:36,429 --> 00:02:39,589 Speaker 4: Australian Cricket team, men and women and materialism. But yeah, 51 00:02:39,589 --> 00:02:43,109 Speaker 4: I just just a lot and I do I do 52 00:02:43,669 --> 00:02:46,389 Speaker 4: when I work with them. I mean, they're like we 53 00:02:46,469 --> 00:02:50,109 Speaker 4: see them on TV and they look physically they're so 54 00:02:51,869 --> 00:02:55,029 Speaker 4: strong and resilient, and you know, I worked with a 55 00:02:55,029 --> 00:02:56,909 Speaker 4: lot of stuff at the coueens downstud of Orizon team. 56 00:02:57,109 --> 00:03:00,589 Speaker 4: You can't get a stronger looking group of people. When 57 00:03:00,709 --> 00:03:05,309 Speaker 4: something else happens, it reminds you they Yeah, they're human 58 00:03:05,429 --> 00:03:07,629 Speaker 4: like the rest of us, and they have their struggles. 59 00:03:07,829 --> 00:03:12,269 Speaker 4: And I remember when the first of the twins passed away, 60 00:03:12,469 --> 00:03:15,589 Speaker 4: I remember just looking at the photo of the family 61 00:03:16,509 --> 00:03:19,269 Speaker 4: at the funeral, standing there and I was just fixated 62 00:03:19,309 --> 00:03:21,589 Speaker 4: on the other twins. I come and begin to imagine 63 00:03:21,789 --> 00:03:24,509 Speaker 4: what that pain is and so yeah, to hear that 64 00:03:24,589 --> 00:03:26,869 Speaker 4: news on the weekend just utterly devastating. 65 00:03:27,589 --> 00:03:29,429 Speaker 3: Yeah, it really is, mate. 66 00:03:29,349 --> 00:03:32,229 Speaker 4: It's hard to talk about. It's just so unbelievably sad. 67 00:03:33,149 --> 00:03:35,989 Speaker 1: What would your if you were working with a football 68 00:03:35,989 --> 00:03:40,109 Speaker 1: club and not necessarily talking specifically about the Sellwood brothers now, 69 00:03:40,149 --> 00:03:42,549 Speaker 1: but there's a player in that club who is struggling 70 00:03:42,549 --> 00:03:45,909 Speaker 1: with their mental health and you've noticed that or picked 71 00:03:45,989 --> 00:03:48,629 Speaker 1: up on that. What kind of things are you doing 72 00:03:49,469 --> 00:03:52,909 Speaker 1: with that player to work through that if they do 73 00:03:53,029 --> 00:03:56,349 Speaker 1: have the elite sport to grapple with at the same time. 74 00:03:56,789 --> 00:03:58,549 Speaker 4: But I can give you an example, and I can 75 00:03:58,589 --> 00:04:01,909 Speaker 4: talk about this because this player went actually he wrote 76 00:04:01,909 --> 00:04:03,669 Speaker 4: an article about this that was in the paper. This 77 00:04:03,709 --> 00:04:05,469 Speaker 4: is about five or six years ago now, so this 78 00:04:05,549 --> 00:04:09,629 Speaker 4: is not speaking without his permission here. But Charlie Dixon, 79 00:04:09,629 --> 00:04:12,909 Speaker 4: when I was at Port Adelaid Football Club, we would 80 00:04:12,949 --> 00:04:15,109 Speaker 4: talk a lot about the battles he was having with 81 00:04:15,669 --> 00:04:18,709 Speaker 4: his mental health, more specifically depression. And I remember saying 82 00:04:18,709 --> 00:04:20,308 Speaker 4: to him, who do you talk to at the cop 83 00:04:20,349 --> 00:04:23,988 Speaker 4: about this? And he said no one, And I said, oh, 84 00:04:24,589 --> 00:04:26,709 Speaker 4: why is that? And he said, well, my role is 85 00:04:26,749 --> 00:04:28,989 Speaker 4: to be really tough and strong, and I don't want 86 00:04:29,029 --> 00:04:30,868 Speaker 4: to appear to be not that way. And I said, 87 00:04:30,869 --> 00:04:32,989 Speaker 4: if one of your teammates, if one of your teammates 88 00:04:33,029 --> 00:04:35,229 Speaker 4: spoke to you about their depression, which you think that 89 00:04:35,269 --> 00:04:36,469 Speaker 4: was weak? And he said, no, I think it was 90 00:04:36,549 --> 00:04:38,189 Speaker 4: very strong. And I said, why is it any different 91 00:04:38,229 --> 00:04:40,349 Speaker 4: for you? And he just kind of nodded and he 92 00:04:40,469 --> 00:04:42,789 Speaker 4: just he could tell his understood. And over the next 93 00:04:42,869 --> 00:04:45,269 Speaker 4: six months, he wrote a letter to his teammates to 94 00:04:45,349 --> 00:04:48,069 Speaker 4: tell them what he was going through, but also thanking 95 00:04:48,109 --> 00:04:49,748 Speaker 4: them because they were the ones who kept him going 96 00:04:50,029 --> 00:04:52,229 Speaker 4: the whole time. And I was there when he read 97 00:04:52,229 --> 00:04:53,308 Speaker 4: it out to them. I was there when he read 98 00:04:53,309 --> 00:04:56,109 Speaker 4: the letter out to them to explain in detail what 99 00:04:56,269 --> 00:04:58,189 Speaker 4: he was going through, and it was, to this day 100 00:04:58,229 --> 00:05:00,109 Speaker 4: one of the most moving things I've ever seen. I 101 00:05:00,109 --> 00:05:01,989 Speaker 4: accidentally booked a very small room, so it's a very 102 00:05:01,988 --> 00:05:05,669 Speaker 4: tight quartis and there were forty men all hugging him 103 00:05:05,669 --> 00:05:07,909 Speaker 4: at the end and said, he said, that was the 104 00:05:07,909 --> 00:05:10,669 Speaker 4: start of his recover. Sorry, so it's a long story, 105 00:05:10,709 --> 00:05:14,709 Speaker 4: but I share that story because I do think that 106 00:05:15,069 --> 00:05:18,189 Speaker 4: being vulnerable and sharing what you're going through is the 107 00:05:18,229 --> 00:05:20,029 Speaker 4: only answer there. Because I think when you send a 108 00:05:20,029 --> 00:05:22,628 Speaker 4: message to the world or at least the people around 109 00:05:22,629 --> 00:05:25,469 Speaker 4: you that I'm not coping. The world wraps its arms around. 110 00:05:25,229 --> 00:05:29,269 Speaker 2: You for somebody who is struggling right now from your 111 00:05:29,389 --> 00:05:31,549 Speaker 2: experience and all the stuff that you guys do on 112 00:05:31,589 --> 00:05:36,109 Speaker 2: the imperfects and stuff where vulnerability is breathed and cherished 113 00:05:36,149 --> 00:05:39,229 Speaker 2: and loved and made into such a wonderful space. How 114 00:05:39,269 --> 00:05:42,349 Speaker 2: does somebody who listens to the imperfect or here's a 115 00:05:42,389 --> 00:05:46,229 Speaker 2: story just then about Charlie Dixon, when that language seems 116 00:05:46,229 --> 00:05:49,389 Speaker 2: so foreign to them. What's the first step somebody could 117 00:05:49,429 --> 00:05:52,428 Speaker 2: maybe take to start trying to crack their heart open 118 00:05:52,429 --> 00:05:54,068 Speaker 2: a little bit and share a bit of the load. 119 00:05:55,029 --> 00:05:58,589 Speaker 4: I would say, as the first step, I would say, 120 00:05:58,629 --> 00:06:01,389 Speaker 4: write down what's in your head. Because I feel like 121 00:06:01,469 --> 00:06:04,149 Speaker 4: saying go and see a health professional, go and see 122 00:06:04,149 --> 00:06:06,269 Speaker 4: a doctor, or going people aren't really doing that. It 123 00:06:06,309 --> 00:06:10,149 Speaker 4: feels like such a monumental step. I would say, very realistically, 124 00:06:10,669 --> 00:06:13,069 Speaker 4: the first thing you could probably do is just write 125 00:06:13,509 --> 00:06:15,068 Speaker 4: right down what is in your head, right down, how 126 00:06:15,109 --> 00:06:17,349 Speaker 4: are you feeling, right down, why you think you feel 127 00:06:17,349 --> 00:06:19,989 Speaker 4: like that, Write down why you feel lost, right down, 128 00:06:19,988 --> 00:06:22,269 Speaker 4: why you feel stuck, and when it's on the page 129 00:06:22,269 --> 00:06:24,789 Speaker 4: in front of you, just give it some time and 130 00:06:24,829 --> 00:06:27,069 Speaker 4: then just look at it and think, Okay, it's out 131 00:06:27,069 --> 00:06:29,829 Speaker 4: of my head. Who is someone in my life that 132 00:06:29,909 --> 00:06:34,549 Speaker 4: I could maybe start to talk to, Who's someone I trusted, 133 00:06:34,589 --> 00:06:36,389 Speaker 4: I love, I know loved me that I could say 134 00:06:36,429 --> 00:06:39,428 Speaker 4: this stuff too, Because when you start to share it, 135 00:06:39,789 --> 00:06:41,749 Speaker 4: the end goal we want is for people to say 136 00:06:41,749 --> 00:06:44,429 Speaker 4: a psychologists and to say a therapist and work through it. 137 00:06:44,469 --> 00:06:46,709 Speaker 4: But I mean the amount of families I speak to. 138 00:06:47,269 --> 00:06:49,069 Speaker 4: I spoke to a woman up in Mildua last week 139 00:06:49,109 --> 00:06:52,709 Speaker 4: who has been through her partner took his life when 140 00:06:52,709 --> 00:06:55,109 Speaker 4: they were pregnant with their third child eight and a 141 00:06:55,149 --> 00:06:57,949 Speaker 4: half months, and she said she just didn't see it 142 00:06:57,988 --> 00:07:00,549 Speaker 4: coming at all. I think so often men will keep 143 00:07:00,589 --> 00:07:03,109 Speaker 4: it all inside because they're just too afraid to talk 144 00:07:03,109 --> 00:07:04,308 Speaker 4: about it. So get it out of your head on 145 00:07:04,349 --> 00:07:06,429 Speaker 4: the paper and then who can I share this with? 146 00:07:06,829 --> 00:07:10,029 Speaker 1: Hey Hue goadvice, what are the signs to pick up on, 147 00:07:10,149 --> 00:07:13,229 Speaker 1: maybe on if there's a man in your life, whether 148 00:07:13,269 --> 00:07:16,029 Speaker 1: it's a friend or partner, Are there any signs you 149 00:07:16,069 --> 00:07:18,949 Speaker 1: can pick up on to kind of kind of twig 150 00:07:18,989 --> 00:07:20,229 Speaker 1: that maybe they're not right? 151 00:07:21,509 --> 00:07:24,509 Speaker 4: Sometimes? Yeah, there are sometimes, but sometimes that's not And 152 00:07:24,509 --> 00:07:26,949 Speaker 4: I just for anyone listening who has lost someone to suicide, 153 00:07:26,669 --> 00:07:29,189 Speaker 4: You know, you probably didn't miss anything. I think a 154 00:07:29,189 --> 00:07:32,309 Speaker 4: lot of men are really holding inside. But I think 155 00:07:32,749 --> 00:07:36,549 Speaker 4: you know, things like irritability or maybe in much shorter 156 00:07:36,629 --> 00:07:38,749 Speaker 4: temper penny of my life. If you're listening, that's not me. 157 00:07:38,869 --> 00:07:44,469 Speaker 4: I'm just terrible. But yeah, I think change of sleep 158 00:07:44,509 --> 00:07:46,989 Speaker 4: patterns are really big one as well, strut struggling to sleep, 159 00:07:47,229 --> 00:07:49,989 Speaker 4: feeling like they're a bit more reclusive, a little bit 160 00:07:49,989 --> 00:07:52,229 Speaker 4: more distant. They are other things, but they're not. It's 161 00:07:52,269 --> 00:07:54,909 Speaker 4: not always, unfortunately, that is you're to spot. 162 00:07:55,309 --> 00:07:58,069 Speaker 2: No, that's the issue. That's the that's why this is 163 00:07:58,589 --> 00:08:02,349 Speaker 2: such an epidemic. Is it's nearly impossible. 164 00:08:02,589 --> 00:08:03,189 Speaker 3: It's a spot. 165 00:08:03,429 --> 00:08:07,429 Speaker 2: Hugh, thanks so much for joining us, mate, and for sharing, 166 00:08:07,469 --> 00:08:09,469 Speaker 2: as always your insights and you is you can listen 167 00:08:09,469 --> 00:08:12,069 Speaker 2: to You and the Imperfect podcast, so you can. I mean, 168 00:08:12,109 --> 00:08:14,389 Speaker 2: you can see this guy anyway. Honestly, I saw a 169 00:08:14,429 --> 00:08:17,349 Speaker 2: Resilience Project poster taped up at my daughter's daycare on 170 00:08:17,389 --> 00:08:18,149 Speaker 2: the weekend. 171 00:08:17,829 --> 00:08:20,029 Speaker 3: And I was like, Jesus, we can leave me alone. 172 00:08:20,349 --> 00:08:20,949 Speaker 3: Kylin Berg. 173 00:08:21,789 --> 00:08:24,029 Speaker 4: I'm running around down. 174 00:08:25,029 --> 00:08:27,149 Speaker 1: He's doing the kindergartens, he's expanding. 175 00:08:27,869 --> 00:08:30,469 Speaker 2: He's also a wonderful man with a great message who's 176 00:08:30,549 --> 00:08:33,149 Speaker 2: already touched a lot of hearts and continues to break barriers. 177 00:08:33,189 --> 00:08:35,228 Speaker 3: So, Hugh, thank you so much for joining us. Mate. 178 00:08:35,228 --> 00:08:37,388 Speaker 3: We love you and thanks for your wise words. 179 00:08:37,629 --> 00:08:39,029 Speaker 4: Love you very much, boys, Thank you. 180 00:08:38,988 --> 00:08:42,429 Speaker 2: Thanks, see you later, Hugh Van Kyleenberg. There on Will 181 00:08:42,468 --> 00:08:46,108 Speaker 2: and Woody Lifeline thirteen eleven fourteen is the number to 182 00:08:46,149 --> 00:08:46,549 Speaker 2: call there. 183 00:08:46,868 --> 00:08:47,949 Speaker 3: It's a big problem, guys. 184 00:08:47,949 --> 00:08:50,189 Speaker 2: It's a problem with not a lot of answers, and 185 00:08:50,228 --> 00:08:52,949 Speaker 2: it really is reliant on the people who are suffering 186 00:08:53,029 --> 00:08:55,628 Speaker 2: to start finding ways to get in touch with how 187 00:08:55,669 --> 00:08:57,149 Speaker 2: they're suffering and communicate that. 188 00:08:57,228 --> 00:09:00,669 Speaker 1: Because great step to write it there, and I think 189 00:09:00,789 --> 00:09:02,988 Speaker 1: take away the pressure of showing someone as well. I'd 190 00:09:03,029 --> 00:09:05,228 Speaker 1: like it's just first step, write it down and you 191 00:09:05,268 --> 00:09:06,228 Speaker 1: don't have to get it twenty one. 192 00:09:06,309 --> 00:09:08,228 Speaker 3: But I think that's so good from you. 193 00:09:08,748 --> 00:09:11,229 Speaker 2: Absolutely see your thoughts and then maybe you can find 194 00:09:11,228 --> 00:09:13,468 Speaker 2: some space between them and away from them.