Speaker 1: Get a pete here before you start today's episode. Just
Speaker 1: a quick trigger warning. There are conversations based on the
Speaker 1: film about racism, sexual violence, and rape, so if those
Speaker 1: things are triggering for you, may be best to.
Speaker 2: Skip this episode. Goodday.
Speaker 1: This is Peter Hellier, Welcome to you Ain't Seen Nothing Yet?
Speaker 1: In the Movie podcast, where our chat to a movie
Speaker 1: lover about a classic or beloved movie they haven't quite
Speaker 1: got around to watching until now. And today's guests comedian
Speaker 1: Extraordinary and bloody great mate Rove McManus.
Speaker 2: The first rule of fake Club is you do not
Speaker 2: talk about fake.
Speaker 3: Club now always your friend up. You broke my heart.
Speaker 4: I admire your luck.
Speaker 2: Mister Bond James Bond having a right now?
Speaker 5: Have you An't Seen Nothing year?
Speaker 1: Much like the movie we are about to discuss today,
Speaker 1: Rove McManus barely needs and introduction. Anyone familiar with me
Speaker 1: and my history would be well aware of the impact
Speaker 1: Robe has had on my career and so many careers
Speaker 1: around Australia, bringing me along for the ride. Back in
Speaker 1: nineteen ninety nine, Rove caught the nation's attention, or at
Speaker 1: least insomniac uni students, with his late night self titled
Speaker 1: series Rove on Channel nine. We had a lot of
Speaker 1: fun on that show, ten whole episodes at eleven thirty
Speaker 1: at night, but sadly Channel nine didn't renew the series.
Speaker 1: But luckily we found a home on Channel ten, where
Speaker 1: Rove Live was born and we had a bloody wonderful
Speaker 1: decade there.
Speaker 2: At Channel ten, Roe became an instant sensation.
Speaker 1: A late night talk show that catapult Robe into the
Speaker 1: Australian showbized stratosphere.
Speaker 2: A hat trick of gold logis anyone.
Speaker 1: Rove to this day has been one of the most
Speaker 1: generous hosts I've ever worked with. There were times when
Speaker 1: something would happen in the studio and we would share
Speaker 1: a look, come half knowing we had the same thought,
Speaker 1: and Rob always gave me right of way.
Speaker 2: I cannot stress how rare that is in a TV host. Personally,
Speaker 2: Rove is.
Speaker 1: Incredibly loyal, forever curious, acutely observant and I'm bloody stoked
Speaker 1: to be hanging with one of my best mates. Quite literally,
Speaker 1: he was in my wedding party today.
Speaker 6: Hello, my name is Rope McManus and my three favorite
Speaker 6: films are It's a Wonderful Life.
Speaker 2: You're at the moon. Just say the word and I'll
Speaker 2: draw a pull down.
Speaker 6: The Wizard of Oz give me that much spot And
Speaker 6: because I can't say, the Princess Bride finding Nemo.
Speaker 2: Sharks the machine.
Speaker 6: But until this week I had not seen the seminal
Speaker 6: classic Gone with the Wind.
Speaker 1: The most profitable film of all time still, Gone with
Speaker 1: the Wind is considered possibly the greatest epic ever made,
Speaker 1: released in nineteen thirty nine, possibly the greatest movie year ever.
Speaker 2: Apologies to nineteen ninety nine.
Speaker 1: Upon release, they couldn't print in technical fast enough to
Speaker 1: get reels into cinemas.
Speaker 2: People wanted the wat's Gone with the Wind.
Speaker 1: This four hour movie over and over and over again,
Speaker 1: based on Margaret Mitchell's nineteen thirty six novel. It was
Speaker 1: nominated for thirteen Oscars and one eight of them, including
Speaker 1: a historical nod for Haddie McDaniel, the first African American
Speaker 1: to win an oscar.
Speaker 2: The daughter of a plantation owner in.
Speaker 1: The Deep South, Scarlett O'Hara, played by Vivian Lee in
Speaker 1: a role that jags her her.
Speaker 2: First of two Oscars. The second was for street car name.
Speaker 1: Desiah attempts to navigate a civil war the burning of
Speaker 1: her precious Atlanta, a shit run of marriages, leaving her
Speaker 1: widowed as she waits for the.
Speaker 2: Love of her life, Ashley to come to his senses.
Speaker 1: But it's the Roguis blockade running womanizer rat Butler who
Speaker 1: longs or at least demands Scarlet's heart.
Speaker 2: A much loved yet problematic movie.
Speaker 1: Gone with the Wind is undoubtedly one of the most
Speaker 1: ambitious movies ever made. McManus, Have you ever drunk cologne
Speaker 1: to cover up your boozing?
Speaker 2: More than you would think?
Speaker 6: I mean, how good is retz Nos Because he's like,
Speaker 6: I can smell boats. I know you have drunk literal cologne. Yeah,
Speaker 6: but I can still smell the whiskey on.
Speaker 1: Your breath and for a memory you're always a jupeman
Speaker 1: where you always cover up whiskey with the boot.
Speaker 6: Now I just use Links Africa as a restaurant, so
Speaker 6: that's great. It's really it's on the go. You can
Speaker 6: get those pocket travel sized ones.
Speaker 7: Very handy, very handy.
Speaker 1: It was a while ago, obviously, I you one of
Speaker 1: the early people I courted for this podcast, and you
Speaker 1: said Gone with the Wind. At what point did you
Speaker 1: regret it, if any, if any point, did you regret
Speaker 1: it look.
Speaker 6: It seems now that I'm such a good person. I
Speaker 6: knew my entire life that this was probably not a
Speaker 6: film that I needed to see, that it had problems,
Speaker 6: it would not date well. But there before the furor
Speaker 6: where the world kind of woke up to some of
Speaker 6: the problems that have sat in a lot of our
Speaker 6: media and film and television stories in literature over the years,
Speaker 6: this was the film that I knew when you had
Speaker 6: this idea was the one that I would leap on.
Speaker 2: And I couldn't do this podcast without doing Gone with
Speaker 2: the Wind.
Speaker 1: I hadn't seen it either, so I was I was
Speaker 1: actually really excited when you nominated it, and then it
Speaker 1: felt like a little bit like something that was just
Speaker 1: hanging over I think both of us sometimes we're speaking
Speaker 1: are we ready to do it?
Speaker 8: Yet?
Speaker 1: We wanted to be in the same room doing it,
Speaker 1: which obviously with borders has been hard to do. But
Speaker 1: when we finally when you said, you said, I'm in
Speaker 1: town for the Melbourne International Comedy Festival is at time,
Speaker 1: and I was like, it took a deep breath.
Speaker 2: I go, yeah, let's do it.
Speaker 6: And we were on the phone at the time and
Speaker 6: we both looked up where we could watch it and
Speaker 6: saw the running time of four hours and you could
Speaker 6: hear the collector of sigh over the phone as we
Speaker 6: both had all right, because this is this is probably
Speaker 6: part of it. I remembered distinctly back when there were
Speaker 6: video shops and my sister was over staying with me
Speaker 6: in Melbourne and we had we had a civic video
Speaker 6: that was just at the end of the street, and
Speaker 6: we went down to pick a movie to watch that night,
Speaker 6: and she had not seen Gone with the Wind either,
Speaker 6: so this would have been, you know, early mid nineties,
Speaker 6: and we went in and we saw it on the
Speaker 6: shelf and it was.
Speaker 2: Two Boxers Pete.
Speaker 6: It was and a weird like you know, later later
Speaker 6: in life they would release like double box like you
Speaker 6: get two VHS tapes and they were stacked one on
Speaker 6: top of each other like a big plastic sandwich. This
Speaker 6: one that for some reason they packaged it side by
Speaker 6: side so it was wide. It was double bide like
Speaker 6: an open book, so they could get the big beautiful
Speaker 6: wide screens that are poster on the on the packaging.
Speaker 7: And we just looked at it and just went that
Speaker 7: feels like a commitment.
Speaker 2: It's two tapes.
Speaker 7: Who's ever done two tapes.
Speaker 2: This is what matter of Maverick call is this must
Speaker 2: go for two and a half hours. Don't have enough
Speaker 2: time left on the two tapes.
Speaker 7: So, and I think that's probably been ever since then.
Speaker 6: I've always known this is a long film, even by
Speaker 6: film standards, and nowadays, if you can see anything that's
Speaker 6: that's two hours, let alone under thank goodness. So I
Speaker 6: think that's always been one of those things. I've never
Speaker 6: really felt the pull to watch it. I get that
Speaker 6: it's a classic I you know, you know the lines.
Speaker 6: I think the fact that whether we can probably bring
Speaker 6: it up now, I don't know of any other film
Speaker 6: in history where what it's most known for is the ending.
Speaker 7: It's like the most famous spoiler in history.
Speaker 6: As you're watching this film, you're like, I know how
Speaker 6: this ends, as far as I am left to believe,
Speaker 6: I know what the fire final line of this movie is,
Speaker 6: which says to me, this is this is where it's
Speaker 6: going to end.
Speaker 2: So did you know that that line came basically right
Speaker 2: at the end. I didn't know.
Speaker 6: The very very final line of the film, but the
Speaker 6: classic Rep Butler two scarlet, I don't give a damn Yes, Yes.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Yeah, it's interesting. There's so much to chat about
Speaker 1: about Gone with the Wind. Obviously, there's a whole bunch,
Speaker 1: and we'll try to cover we won't be able to
Speaker 1: cover everything, but we'll cover some of the problems, but
Speaker 1: also some of the things that are great about this film.
Speaker 1: And I'm busting to know what you thought of it.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about your three favorite films. If I was
Speaker 1: a guest, I had in my mind I was I
Speaker 1: think Wizard of Oz would be in there. Yes, I
Speaker 1: did have Princess Bride in there, yes, And I thought
Speaker 1: the other one may be and I kind of I
Speaker 1: thought maybe not, because Princess Bride might be like your
Speaker 1: your comedy that you go for.
Speaker 2: I thought planes, trains and automobiles in mind.
Speaker 6: So, look, this is the problem. Like to go a
Speaker 6: top five, I think is easier than a top three.
Speaker 6: Top three, like first two are pretty easy. Like you've
Speaker 6: got your top favorite that's safe to say, and then
Speaker 6: you've got your one that's your emotional comfort that you
Speaker 6: like to wrap around yourself. One of those ones. At
Speaker 6: any time it's on, you'll happily watch it. Like for
Speaker 6: Wizard of Oz, one of the first ones. I was
Speaker 6: like I can't wait to show that to my daughter
Speaker 6: type of thing. And then you start to go, well,
Speaker 6: what's number three when there's usually a bit of a
Speaker 6: tussle in that spot? And I did, I did think
Speaker 6: about it hard, and I was like, yeah, like Planes,
Speaker 6: Trains and Automobiles is a funny film. Like just the
Speaker 6: performances from from Steve Martin and John Candy are just amazing,
Speaker 6: so many wonderful lines that I still quote today, Like
Speaker 6: you are if you are.
Speaker 7: Telling one of these stories of yours, just have a
Speaker 7: point to it.
Speaker 6: The very first Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles movie was floats
Speaker 6: around there and as you are and bring up on
Speaker 6: the show, it's because it's like that was the first
Speaker 6: VHS I had.
Speaker 7: We watched it incessantly, so I know it word for words.
Speaker 1: I still remember the feeling I have when Narnie Carmel
Speaker 1: gave me Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles as a Christmas gift.
Speaker 7: Oh, as you know, Raphael very famously said to Casey Jones, cricket,
Speaker 7: no one understands cricket. You got to know what a
Speaker 7: crumpet is to understand cricket.
Speaker 2: That's great. Would have been the first Turtles.
Speaker 4: I know, but.
Speaker 6: I felt it would be remiss of me not to
Speaker 6: have some kind of animated film on this. I love animation.
Speaker 6: Have you know Disney Pixar, I love every dream Works.
Speaker 6: There's just so many wonderful films and if to narrow
Speaker 6: it down, it would have to be something from the
Speaker 6: Pixar family. Toy Story three is almost a perfect film
Speaker 6: for me. However, I feel there's something in it about
Speaker 6: I might be wrong, but I feel you kind of
Speaker 6: have to know.
Speaker 7: One and two a little bit.
Speaker 6: To put a sequel in there is very difficult, even
Speaker 6: though as a film, I think it's just perfection.
Speaker 7: So I think one of those ones just to go.
Speaker 6: And I would happily watch this and recommend it to
Speaker 6: anyone's finding Nema And it's a beautiful film and for
Speaker 6: what they were trying to do visually at the time
Speaker 6: as well, you forget how an entire film set underwater
Speaker 6: and how they get the different tones from when they're
Speaker 6: in open ocean to the harbor in Sydney. The cast
Speaker 6: is incredible, it's yeah, it'll it's a brilliant and beautiful yeah,
Speaker 6: and the script is amazing.
Speaker 1: Craig Maze and I mentioned this podcast occasion if you're
Speaker 1: interested in screenwriting. Script Notes is an amazing podcast to
Speaker 1: listen to, and Craig Mason does basically he wrote more
Speaker 1: recently Chernobyl, but prior to that was writing Hangover movies
Speaker 1: and the scary movies, the parody movies. And he does
Speaker 1: this like episode where he just gives a talk that
Speaker 1: he gives when he goes to universities about how basically
Speaker 1: how to write a screenplay, and he uses finding Nemo
Speaker 1: as as an example of how good that is to
Speaker 1: find all the pressure points to put on on Marvin
Speaker 1: and and to make make those odds insurmountable against like
Speaker 1: it's not it's not enough that his kid's missing. He's
Speaker 1: got the backstory. And then and he's got this injured
Speaker 1: he's basically disabled. He's got this injured foot. But it's
Speaker 1: it's like they don't stop it, like, oh, this is
Speaker 1: this is tricky. This is gonna be a tricky thing,
Speaker 1: that this is going to be impossible for Marlon, and
Speaker 1: it is it is.
Speaker 6: And also because as as a parent, like he is
Speaker 6: justified in his concerns, like his son does get into
Speaker 6: trouble and at the very very end when he's like,
Speaker 6: Nemo's like, you know, let me fix this, and he's like, no,
Speaker 6: you can't do this. And he's like, look, look at
Speaker 6: what's happened. You've got stolen and taken to the other
Speaker 6: side of the world and I had to come find you.
Speaker 6: But then also the redemption story that Marvin gets from
Speaker 6: him being such a overprotective father in going to rescue
Speaker 6: his son out of pure love. His child out of
Speaker 6: pure love then goes on this incredible journey that shows
Speaker 6: how brave he is as well. And just the learning
Speaker 6: that they have and together is one of those things
Speaker 6: that even as a parent, I know that the time
Speaker 6: will come when I will have to let my Nemo
Speaker 6: swim on her own as well, And it's a very
Speaker 6: beautiful thought for a parent to have.
Speaker 1: Is that great line from Dory is it if nothing
Speaker 1: ever happens, nothing will happen something like that. Maybe that
Speaker 1: was a cut scene that I just gravitated towards, but
Speaker 1: she's just saying nothing's gonna happen.
Speaker 2: It's a beautiful sentiment.
Speaker 1: If you're allowed nothing to happen, if you adventure not
Speaker 1: to happen, sure, then nothing's going to happen. And then
Speaker 1: what's the point of that. It is a great one
Speaker 1: to happen. One we haven't discussed from memory. It's a
Speaker 1: wonderful life. We discussed with Broden Kelly, and I mean
Speaker 1: the impact this has had on cinema, you know the
Speaker 1: Simpsons of he covered it parody.
Speaker 6: Look, yeah, that was It was late in life that
Speaker 6: I saw that one and then just deep dived into
Speaker 6: the world of Jimmy Stewart, who is I would say,
Speaker 6: is my favorite actor, Like just the way he can
Speaker 6: go from beautiful, heartfelt pieces like this or amazing tour
Speaker 6: de force roles like mister Smith goes to Washington.
Speaker 2: You know, he's great in.
Speaker 6: Comedy like Harvey He's playing alongside an giant invisible rabbit,
Speaker 6: and then kind of went into thriller stuff, doing a
Speaker 6: lot of stuff with Hitchcock, and then it became a
Speaker 6: Wild West star in his later years. Like he's just
Speaker 6: so versatile as an actor and just so effortless to
Speaker 6: watch and in this film and him and Donna Read
Speaker 6: together are just so beautiful and charismatic.
Speaker 2: And another one of those ones that.
Speaker 6: Similar to Gone with the Wind, I knew so much
Speaker 6: about it beforehand. It's one of those ones it's an
Speaker 6: American staple, and I guess living in Australia, we weren't.
Speaker 6: We didn't really get it every year like the Americans
Speaker 6: do as a Christmas special that's put on TV all
Speaker 6: the time.
Speaker 2: But i'd seen it.
Speaker 6: I want to say, it's in Gremlins. There's a it's
Speaker 6: in the background of a couple of scenes where you
Speaker 6: know it's the shot of Jimmy running down the street
Speaker 6: and yelling and waving to everybody, and then watching it.
Speaker 6: It's such a beautiful sentiment about someone who foregoes everything
Speaker 6: that his dreams so he thinks in his own life
Speaker 6: to help other people around him. And how as an
Speaker 6: individual you don't realize how many lives you touch in
Speaker 6: your day to day with what you do in the
Speaker 6: ripple effect, that every good deed you do has to
Speaker 6: those around you, and then and so on and so on,
Speaker 6: So that if you were to find yourself in your deepest,
Speaker 6: darkest hour thing thinking what's the point and what's the
Speaker 6: point of me?
Speaker 7: And what's the point of going on?
Speaker 6: To think about all those people that if you had
Speaker 6: never existed, how their lives wouldn't have been better for
Speaker 6: all the things that seemed Inconsequential to You is such
Speaker 6: a beautiful sentiment. There's a bit of weirdness with talking
Speaker 6: animated stars that turn out to be God and an angel.
Speaker 6: If you can get past that weird hurdle in the
Speaker 6: first five minutes, we're like, what is actually happening.
Speaker 1: In the start a little bit? Monty Python, doesn't it?
Speaker 1: It doesh does You're absolutely right. The messaging in that
Speaker 1: film is I guess why it is still much loved
Speaker 1: and it is aged. I mean, I think when you
Speaker 1: look at films, of course you can you look at
Speaker 1: the esthetic, and it's hard for films not to age,
Speaker 1: obviously because it advances in film and you know it's
Speaker 1: a black and white film and acting style changes and
Speaker 1: what we can do with cameras.
Speaker 2: But the messaging in that film is just ageless. Yeah, timeless, yea, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1: Great and great and Frank Capper as well, who they
Speaker 1: week together. Of course in Missus Smith goes to Washington,
Speaker 1: which you mentioned nineteen thirty nine, incredible year for film,
Speaker 1: like it is considered the best film year ever. Gone
Speaker 1: with the Wind was made night as well. Yeah, Miss
Speaker 1: Smith goes to Washington. Stage CoA I think is the
Speaker 1: absolutely Wuthering Heights of Mice and Men, Goodbye Mister Chips Stark,
Speaker 1: Victory Destry Rides Again. I think assumes Stuart and Hunchback
Speaker 1: of not your darm like it.
Speaker 7: Is original long Chainey, No, I wouldn't be maybe.
Speaker 1: Not sure if it's the original one. But that's just
Speaker 1: an incredible list of films that have lasted the test
Speaker 1: of time. And I bring it up now because you
Speaker 1: mentioned in your three favorite films, and before we speak
Speaker 1: about Gone with the Wind the Wizard of Ours. So
Speaker 1: even the fact the fact that Gone with the Wind
Speaker 1: and The Wizard of Oz has made the same year
Speaker 1: is kind of mind blowing.
Speaker 6: It is well, I think Wizard of Oz came out
Speaker 6: obviously being in Technicolor was their big thing. And as
Speaker 6: I'm sure we'll get into with Gone with the Wind,
Speaker 6: I think Gone with the Win was the first to
Speaker 6: win and Oscar as a color film the best Picture,
Speaker 6: so color was a big thing.
Speaker 2: So even by today's stand it's the creative decision to.
Speaker 6: Depict the first section of The Wizard of Oz in
Speaker 6: black and white, and then when she steps off out
Speaker 6: of the house it turns to color. When you look
Speaker 6: at how that would have been done in the nineteen thirties.
Speaker 6: Is quite an incredible undertaking and just the spectacle of it.
Speaker 6: I mean, you talk about budgets for films now and
Speaker 6: how a lot of that is done. I guess in
Speaker 6: post production, green screen special effects, what these films were
Speaker 6: doing on huge sound stages. But then to sort of
Speaker 6: make the Wicked Witch of the West disappear, there's a
Speaker 6: trap door that even if you look closely now you
Speaker 6: can't see it. You can't see I know how it's done,
Speaker 6: and every time I'm watching, like how she disappears so.
Speaker 7: Quickly under this puff of smoke. It's so wonderfully done.
Speaker 6: And apparently it was Snow White and sn Dwarves, which
Speaker 6: came out I think two years before, gave MGM the
Speaker 6: idea of, oh, well, people like family films, so we
Speaker 6: should do a family film, like kids film. So they
Speaker 6: decided to do Wizard of Oz and you know, quickly
Speaker 6: snapped up the rights to the book. But then they
Speaker 6: had concerns that sending this girl into a fantasy world
Speaker 6: with a talking scarecrow and a witch people might find
Speaker 6: as a bit of elite, which is why the film
Speaker 6: added the well maybe it was all the dream part,
Speaker 6: which isn't technically part of the book, so they have
Speaker 6: given themselves a little bit of a get out of
Speaker 6: jail card in case people go, well, that doesn't make
Speaker 6: any sense.
Speaker 2: That is, I never knew that. I never knew that all.
Speaker 6: Apparently the lady who played the Wicked Witch of the
Speaker 6: West was delightful and for the rest of her life
Speaker 6: had kids running and screaming from there in the street.
Speaker 2: But apparently it was very nice.
Speaker 1: At least David Prowse got the wear a uniform in Beta,
Speaker 1: so nobody got scared.
Speaker 6: And when I was living in the States, I got
Speaker 6: to go see the Culver City studios, which were the
Speaker 6: old MGM studios, and walk around there and just that
Speaker 6: idea of I mean, they're just buildings, but to go, wow,
Speaker 6: the Wizard of Oz was shot here. And actually, now
Speaker 6: that I think of it, I might be wrong, but
Speaker 6: I'm pretty sure the studio that we shot rove La
Speaker 6: and had gone with the wind in it, because they'd
Speaker 6: have a plark.
Speaker 2: I'd like to have a look at it.
Speaker 6: I've got a photo of it somewhere, but there's a
Speaker 6: plaque out the front of every sound stage to say
Speaker 6: what was shot there? And I remember thinking Jesus a
Speaker 6: lot of g things. So it's Gone with the Wind, Goonies,
Speaker 6: the Gilmore Girls, and then Roll.
Speaker 2: Great the trend of it. But yeah, that incredible history
Speaker 2: that that movies hold.
Speaker 6: In your life, to sort of get to sort of
Speaker 6: step you know, on those footprints that they've left behind,
Speaker 6: I think is always a wonderful thing.
Speaker 2: I love it whatever.
Speaker 1: A handful of times I've been on the Warner Brothers
Speaker 1: lot and the sea. Yeah, the list of films made
Speaker 1: in those stages is this. It's it's very exciting. It's
Speaker 1: very exciting, and we are discussing one of the most
Speaker 1: exciting films certainly upon release. That the excitement surrounding Gone
Speaker 1: with the Wind that was massive. It was based on
Speaker 1: Margaret Mitchell's novel, which if you think basically the excitement
Speaker 1: around Harry Potter, that's probably the closest thing in contemporary
Speaker 1: terms as far as oh they're making X into a
Speaker 1: movie like I can't think of it, you know one
Speaker 1: recently that would compare to the excitement that would have
Speaker 1: been around Gone with the Wind. Also, the fact that
Speaker 1: it was in color, like you say, the first you know,
Speaker 1: like a very early color film, was was the excitement
Speaker 1: was palpable and.
Speaker 2: Like the book was like the year before or something.
Speaker 6: As soon as the book was written, it was such
Speaker 6: a massive success that they snatched up the rights to it.
Speaker 6: Like you think that that seems like a very modern
Speaker 6: day idea. Yeah, you can turn around that quickly. Yeah,
Speaker 6: or that anyone is looking at a book as a
Speaker 6: source for well, you know, as soon as you're even
Speaker 6: writing a book, the idea that you could sell the
Speaker 6: rights to it for a film or TV franchise I
Speaker 6: thought was more of a contemporary idea. But you know,
Speaker 6: with this, it was like, yeah, soon it was on
Speaker 6: the shelves, they snatched it up, and we're going to
Speaker 6: turn this into a film.
Speaker 1: Now, this is a complicated, maybe more complicated question than
Speaker 1: I've asked. You know, it seems like a very simple question,
Speaker 1: but I feel with this film potentially it's complicated.
Speaker 2: But did you enjoy it? That is a complicated question.
Speaker 2: Did I enjoy it?
Speaker 6: Look, I got through it. I I don't know that
Speaker 6: I would watch it again. I would say no, I
Speaker 6: didn't enjoy it. There were things I enjoyed about it,
Speaker 6: but apart from the very obvious problems subject matter wise,
Speaker 6: just at its core, it's one of those stories that
Speaker 6: I just don't resonate with. It's got those Brian prejudice
Speaker 6: kind of tones to it, that idea of, you know,
Speaker 6: there's a there's a female protagonist who's you know, kept
Speaker 6: protected from the world and needs a man, just a
Speaker 6: guy to come in and rougher up. And and whether
Speaker 6: it's that kind of you know, James Dean style bad
Speaker 6: boy thing that is actually the attraction or not. I
Speaker 6: just find that, Yeah, it's it's like men need to
Speaker 6: come in and show women how to have a good time,
Speaker 6: and that's kind of the basis of this film. And
Speaker 6: I found most of the characters to be quite unlikable,
Speaker 6: apart from any kind of racial overtones that that run
Speaker 6: through this film and misogyny and all of that as
Speaker 6: well just as individual characters like Scarlet in particular, trying
Speaker 6: to steal everybody's partner and just being like flirtatious for
Speaker 6: the sake of being disruptive is how I took it.
Speaker 2: And being.
Speaker 6: A bit of an egotist, I found as well that
Speaker 6: in like when they do end up together, it was
Speaker 6: part of me like, well, good, like you two go
Speaker 6: over there and let everyone else just have a good
Speaker 6: time because I don't know what the two of you want,
Speaker 6: but you can go look for it together. So that
Speaker 6: part of it was at its core tough for me
Speaker 6: to get through. The visuals were incredible, which we can
Speaker 6: get to, but on the whole I would say, no,
Speaker 6: I didn't enjoy it.
Speaker 2: Well, it is and I had like a rocky road
Speaker 2: kind of experience with this.
Speaker 4: It was.
Speaker 1: A bit of a rollercoaster with sometimes I was really
Speaker 1: impressed with what I was seeing, and I was enjoying
Speaker 1: elements still, both with character and with what I was
Speaker 1: visually seeing. Like you said, some of the visuals are
Speaker 1: absolutely stunning, but I agree that my first thing was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this Scarlet O'Hara is.
Speaker 2: It's tough to warm to. Yes, she is.
Speaker 1: Yeah, really, well, it's hard to like to begin with.
Speaker 1: And you know, the first thing we know is is
Speaker 1: really that she is wanting to she loves Ashley.
Speaker 6: She loves Ashley technically her cousin or Ashley's marrying his
Speaker 6: cousin his cousin.
Speaker 2: Sure, that's fine. Yes, Melanie who who I think was?
Speaker 6: You know?
Speaker 2: That was much?
Speaker 7: She was by far my favorite.
Speaker 2: Yes, I needed her a life, but in a movie.
Speaker 1: And what I think was realizing later on in the
Speaker 1: film is Melanie is lovely and she's a saint. But
Speaker 1: if the film was about hurt and it's not a
Speaker 1: very interesting film. I did get to the point where
Speaker 1: I go, no, you need and I kind of almost
Speaker 1: admired that Scarlett O'Hara was such a complicated woman in
Speaker 1: this time. I really thought when I thought of Gone
Speaker 1: with the Wind, that it was all romance.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I thought of that, the poster with you know, Red
Speaker 1: Butler and Scarlett Oharat and almost like looking down for
Speaker 1: the kiss, and I thought, this is a big sweeping romance.
Speaker 1: And when this idea that Ashley was on on on
Speaker 1: the on the scene, I thought, okay, early on, he'll
Speaker 1: be on the scene and then he'll get he'll die
Speaker 1: or something, and then he's the whole thing is like
Speaker 1: she's waiting for Ashley. I thought, well, hang on, So
Speaker 1: this is almost like a this is a non you know,
Speaker 1: like a non rum. It's not, but it's it's it's
Speaker 1: an anti romance in a way, like and you're right
Speaker 1: when when they kind of when they were together, I
Speaker 1: wasn't I why, but why are you together outside of
Speaker 1: maybe sexual attraction, which I think maybe red.
Speaker 2: Red Scarlett, yeah.
Speaker 1: Written scarlet Let's ever listen actually to when ret first
Speaker 1: meets Scarlet. There Scarlet's actually just had is a bit
Speaker 1: of a chat with Ashley and actually is trying to
Speaker 1: push her away, and she she throws I think a
Speaker 1: glass at a painting and disturbs Retty's been there listing
Speaker 1: there on the couch.
Speaker 3: As a war stne.
Speaker 2: Sir you you should have made your presence known in.
Speaker 3: The middle of that beautiful love scene. That wouldn't have
Speaker 3: been very tactful with it. But don't worry. Your secret
Speaker 3: is safe with me. Say you are no gentleman and
Speaker 3: you miss our no lady. We don't think that I
Speaker 3: hold that against you. Ladies have never held any job
Speaker 3: for me.
Speaker 7: First you take a low common advantage of me, then
Speaker 7: you insert me.
Speaker 8: I meant it as a compleman, and I hope to
Speaker 8: see more of you when you're free of the spell
Speaker 8: of the elegant mister Wilkes. He doesn't strike me as
Speaker 8: half good enough for a girl of your What was
Speaker 8: it your patient for a living?
Speaker 4: How dare you? You aren't his book?
Speaker 8: And you were going to hate him for the rest
Speaker 8: of your life.
Speaker 1: So that's the start of their, you know, their journey together.
Speaker 1: I'm just I was never quite sure when the point.
Speaker 1: I guess Rhet dislikes her immediately whatever you know he
Speaker 1: sees in her both but maybe physical and also what
Speaker 1: he gleans from her. But I'm just wondering, when did
Speaker 1: Scarlet fall for Rhett and did that ever really happened?
Speaker 1: That does that only happen right at the end when
Speaker 1: she when she knows that he's left, and it's almost
Speaker 1: what she can't have is what she desires the most.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's it's tricky because you've got Ashley, who she's
Speaker 6: pining for for the whole film. And then right at
Speaker 6: the very very end, when he's heartbroken over the loss
Speaker 6: of Melanie, that he has his moment of confession where
Speaker 6: he says it's it's her, It's always been her, and
Speaker 6: how I'm going to live without her? And then it
Speaker 6: feels Scarlet quite abruptly suddenly lets go of what seems
Speaker 6: like it has been years and years and years of
Speaker 6: holding a flame for him, that this unrequited love, that
Speaker 6: one day he will leave Melanie for me, and that's
Speaker 6: enough to snap her out of it and then she
Speaker 6: goes running to RHTT.
Speaker 2: It's not like.
Speaker 6: I couldn't quite make the connection between how suddenly the
Speaker 6: trigger point of Ashley doesn't love me after all, Okay,
Speaker 6: I can now let go of him. I won't keep
Speaker 6: fighting for him even though now he's available. So there's that,
Speaker 6: and then the domino effect of okay, well Ashley doesn't
Speaker 6: love me, Well, I can let go of that now.
Speaker 6: Oh and well there's Rhett. Oh I love RHTT just
Speaker 6: happened in the blink of an eye. That was too
Speaker 6: quick for me when the whole film was based around
Speaker 6: this push pull of Scarlet can't get over Ashley Ashley,
Speaker 6: and then.
Speaker 2: Especially because she said, why didn't you tell me? I'm
Speaker 2: pretty sure he has told you.
Speaker 6: You keep coming back and not letting him just walk
Speaker 6: away from things, and whether it's because you believe deep
Speaker 6: down he does Ashley does love you more than Melanie.
Speaker 6: You won't just let them be as a couple in
Speaker 6: the same way that you go. So then same thing
Speaker 6: with Rhett when he finally says, no, I have loved you.
Speaker 6: I've always loved you from the moment I first saw
Speaker 6: you at twelve oks at the party.
Speaker 7: And let's say as a rule. I think it's great.
Speaker 6: I think Mammy has the exact right advice of never
Speaker 6: show your bosom before three o'clock.
Speaker 2: I think that's a good Let's get a life. Let's
Speaker 2: get back to that everyone. Let's get back to that.
Speaker 2: I mean from three o'clock onwards. It's past.
Speaker 7: Get them out, enjoy men, women, everybody.
Speaker 2: Let's go for it.
Speaker 6: But yeah, like I hadn't found that connection from Rhett
Speaker 6: that he was the one who loved Scarlett. He was
Speaker 6: always this push pull thing. I think one of his
Speaker 6: first lines to her is that's your problem. You need
Speaker 6: to be kissed and kissed often. And I can see
Speaker 6: what he's trying to say, or what the undertones are,
Speaker 6: which is you look the part of the Southern bell,
Speaker 6: but I know you would rather be riding around on
Speaker 6: horses and swinging and whiskey and cologne and not having
Speaker 6: to give off all these airs and graces that a
Speaker 6: lady of the South has to give. And I see
Speaker 6: the real you underneath. And he's obviously shown himself to
Speaker 6: not be one of the Southern sympathizers. He's a bit
Speaker 6: of a rebel when it comes to his way of thinking,
Speaker 6: and he can see both sides and has been a
Speaker 6: bit of a deserter because he doesn't think war's a
Speaker 6: good thing. So he's trying to say, you're like me.
Speaker 6: We're mavericks here, we're outlaws. Let's the two of us
Speaker 6: go and be the real us together. That's fine, But
Speaker 6: this idea of you're the greatest thing. And ever since
Speaker 6: I first laid eyes on you wasn't quite there. And
Speaker 6: when he made that announcement at the end, that to
Speaker 6: me was a bit of a revelation because I hadn't
Speaker 6: quite seen that yet.
Speaker 1: And then when they would get together, it seemed like
Speaker 1: it seemed like a pretty something tenuous would then usually
Speaker 1: lead to a slap of the face. I mean, Will
Speaker 1: Smith had a field day and a remake of Going
Speaker 1: with the Wind because the slapping that goes on, they're together, kissing,
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, they're getting back to getting together
Speaker 1: now finally, and then.
Speaker 7: Yeah, they slap and then she's like, what are you
Speaker 7: talking about?
Speaker 2: Yeahous, your hands are dirty, you've been working. Do you
Speaker 2: need money? Slap your hand while I'm in prison. And
Speaker 2: in the end, it's like he knows that money is
Speaker 2: part of his attraction. He almost uses it.
Speaker 1: In the end, they go on the boat and they
Speaker 1: like So I just felt whenever they got together it
Speaker 1: was something that seemed to me pretty flimsy that then
Speaker 1: drove him apart really quickly.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and I get that there's a lot of that.
Speaker 6: It's almost like royalty as you've got like cousins marrying cousins.
Speaker 6: It's the south and the integrity of keeping bloodlines, you know,
Speaker 6: like something out of Game of Thrones or something.
Speaker 2: It's this real.
Speaker 6: Okay, Well, this is an important person, This is a portant,
Speaker 6: important person, and if we marry together, then we've got
Speaker 6: two big pieces of land.
Speaker 7: So let's get you two together. So I could see
Speaker 7: how Rhet was a catch.
Speaker 6: And Scarlet comes from a family that at the time
Speaker 6: had wealth taras an amazing you know, plantation, So it
Speaker 6: would make sense that they would sort of be there
Speaker 6: for each other, that that attraction was there, that idea
Speaker 6: of look, you know, as far as arranged marriages go,
Speaker 6: which is kind of how this works. You and I,
Speaker 6: you know, we don't hate each other, but we don't
Speaker 6: love each other, but at least we can get along,
Speaker 6: unlike maybe many other people. But there wasn't I didn't
Speaker 6: see that spark of chemistry. They just it was like
Speaker 6: two magnets. Every time they would get super close to
Speaker 6: each other, they would just repel. But I will say
Speaker 6: this as actors, though, I don't think i'd ever seen
Speaker 6: Clark Gable in anything before.
Speaker 2: No, I was the same. Actually, he was one of.
Speaker 6: Those guys for all that era, you know, James Stewart,
Speaker 6: Carrie Grant, Catherine Hepburn, all these actors of that era.
Speaker 6: I'd seen a lot of their work and enjoyed it,
Speaker 6: and it wasn't until I watched this I don't actually
Speaker 6: think as iconic because he is. I've actually ever seen
Speaker 6: a Clark Gable film either, and I thought he was fantastic.
Speaker 2: I really enjoyed him.
Speaker 1: By the same thought, and he was like the biggest
Speaker 1: movie star. When the book came out, there's a lot
Speaker 1: of conjecture and a lot of you know, speculation of
Speaker 1: who would play Rhett and who would play Skull, And
Speaker 1: it was almost a no brainer. Is nobody else can
Speaker 1: play Rhet Butler other than Clark Gable. The search for
Speaker 1: Scull O'Hara was a more complicated search. Betty Davis desperately
Speaker 1: one of the Lana Turner one to the Katherine Hepburn
Speaker 1: one of that Lucia ball I wanted it.
Speaker 2: Wouldn't that have been fascinating? Yeah, it obviously worked.
Speaker 1: Vivian Lee wins the Oscar, Clark Gable misses out on
Speaker 1: the Oscar. It goes to the actor from Goodbye Mister Chips,
Speaker 1: Roger Barratt.
Speaker 2: I think I'd like to think, my wi, but the
Speaker 2: chemistry works. They didn't.
Speaker 1: They didn't necessarily get along on off camera. In fact,
Speaker 1: Vivian lely hated kissing Clark Gable because he had apparently
Speaker 1: bad breath.
Speaker 6: Well I wasn't aware. He his amazing teeth apparently false
Speaker 6: talse from smoking. And there's a couple of times when
Speaker 6: he laughs you can hear that guttural rattle in his
Speaker 6: chest that they probably all had back then when they
Speaker 6: were just in.
Speaker 2: The same way.
Speaker 1: A lot of the Ossie actors who you know, I
Speaker 1: think succeeded in going Russell and Hugh and Hamsworth they said,
Speaker 1: and Mel Gibson, they like that they feel like men,
Speaker 1: you know, like where I think I had a lot
Speaker 1: of commentary about American actors softening over the years, like
Speaker 1: the male actors.
Speaker 2: So I think when you go back and see.
Speaker 1: Oh this is what they probably were talking about, that
Speaker 1: that type of the old Hollywood Yes men, you know,
Speaker 1: men and men, kind.
Speaker 6: Of mustaches, impeccable must Apparently I'd heard a rumor that
Speaker 6: he would eat garlic.
Speaker 4: Yes.
Speaker 1: I think when Lee was start complaining about his breath,
Speaker 1: he was, Okay, watch this space, would.
Speaker 2: Colets cologne? Here we go?
Speaker 6: Yeah, But he seemed like he was also like a
Speaker 6: decent guy, like the actor who the actress who won
Speaker 6: Supporting Actress for playing Mammy wasn't actually allowed to attend
Speaker 6: the Oscars because there was segregation in the hotel that
Speaker 6: they were holding the oscar, So even though she was nominated,
Speaker 6: she wasn't allowed to attend, and Clark Gable in protest,
Speaker 6: said well, I'm not going to go to the awards
Speaker 6: either if she's not allowed to go. She ended up saying,
Speaker 6: please don't boycott on my account. But I appreciate what
Speaker 6: you did. And I thought that was that's a nice
Speaker 6: thing to have in your mind when you're you're watching
Speaker 6: you know, these characters on screen.
Speaker 1: And they were Haddie McDaniel, who played Mammy was they
Speaker 1: were friends as well, and she would always have house
Speaker 1: parties and apparently Clark Gable almost never missed a party
Speaker 1: and he was more than happy to watch the Oscars.
Speaker 1: So he's at the premiere. Sorry, be at the premiere
Speaker 1: with Hattie and her friends, but she convinced him to be.
Speaker 2: You know, it's your movie. You need to be at
Speaker 2: the premiere.
Speaker 1: Hadi McDaniel also then at the Oscars, was was made
Speaker 1: to sit I think at the back of the room
Speaker 1: or on a side table. Wins becomes becomes the first
Speaker 1: African American to win the Oscar. It's a complicated role
Speaker 1: for her because it is and I guess we should
Speaker 1: maybe talk about some of that stuff now, you know,
Speaker 1: you watch and there's some very clear racism. There's there's
Speaker 1: the slapping and the pressy cops. It a lot pressy
Speaker 1: cops it well, even to start with Pressy played by
Speaker 1: Butterfly mc McQueen, Like it's just this idea, like that
Speaker 1: the look at slavery is so one sided, Like there's
Speaker 1: no everyone seems happy to be doing their part and
Speaker 1: be working on the plantation. There's no kind of like
Speaker 1: disgruntled slaves and like that's obviously not the you know,
Speaker 1: not the case. And Prissy is seen as it's like
Speaker 1: this childlike this high squeaky kind of voice, almost like
Speaker 1: she has a mental disability, you know. And they're portraying
Speaker 1: slaves like they need that, they need their wide owners.
Speaker 1: They wouldn't even be able to survive in the outse world.
Speaker 1: They are better off.
Speaker 2: Yeah yeah here yeah.
Speaker 6: And even the whole opening is shots of slaves in
Speaker 6: the fields, as the text over the top is saying
Speaker 6: it's Margaret Mitchell's Song of the Old South, and there's
Speaker 6: all these wonderful flowing terms as you see images of
Speaker 6: slavery underneath. And the big thing that kind of blew
Speaker 6: my mind within the first few minutes is that the
Speaker 6: name of the film and the novel Gone with the Wind,
Speaker 6: is talking about how this wonderful life we had before
Speaker 6: this Civil War took it all away, and it was
Speaker 6: quote gone with the Wind, this wonderful life where we
Speaker 6: there was segregation and we could make people work for nothing,
Speaker 6: and then we could treat them horribly so that we
Speaker 6: could live like kings. What a time, What a shame
Speaker 6: that it's gone the good old day? And that was
Speaker 6: when I went, I had choked in my cologne.
Speaker 2: I was like, I know the racism was coming. I
Speaker 2: didn't expect it in the opening.
Speaker 6: It's there in the title, isn't. I'd never thought of
Speaker 6: that at all. I was not aware of it anyone.
Speaker 2: No, and then you got You got.
Speaker 1: Had him at McDaniel who played Mammy, which I must say,
Speaker 1: I did not know that this was kind of a
Speaker 1: thing in movies. But once it's kind of a point
Speaker 1: of that, it becomes quite you know, kind of clear.
Speaker 1: I think this idea, the whole idea of the Mammy character,
Speaker 1: which is like a maid and it's a bit of
Speaker 1: a nanny.
Speaker 6: It's like a living nanny, maide looks after the kids.
Speaker 6: Oh pay a type of idea and.
Speaker 1: The design basically, and it's almost a Hollywood construct where
Speaker 1: you have African American women portraying these maternal maids. Often
Speaker 1: they're quite large and there's no there's no kind of
Speaker 1: sense of sexual danger as far as like oh or
Speaker 1: maybe she's you know, she's having an affair with the husband.
Speaker 1: They're never so they're always like bigger, bigger women, and
Speaker 1: they have these characters, you know, they're like they're running
Speaker 1: the house. They're very content to be running the house.
Speaker 1: They have a voice in the house. And it's all
Speaker 1: designed to make it easier for Americans to basically to
Speaker 1: accept slavery, to go go, oh, well, they're happy, not
Speaker 1: that they get that, they get to live in the
Speaker 1: you know, in the house or in spect, they get long.
Speaker 1: You know, they're giving advice to each other. You know,
Speaker 1: just look how happy they are. So it became a
Speaker 1: really complicated thing for Haddie McDaniel, who was a working actress,
Speaker 1: and she got, you know, criticized by her own community
Speaker 1: for taking the role. But she said, well, I'd rather
Speaker 1: make I think it was seven hundred dollars a week
Speaker 1: tending to be a maid as opposed to seven dollars
Speaker 1: a week actually being a maid.
Speaker 7: And it's it's it's tough because you do look at
Speaker 7: the cast, and you know, the.
Speaker 6: Unfortunate argument being you could make about, well, look how
Speaker 6: many African Americans are cast in this film, probably a
Speaker 6: lot more than were cast at any other point in
Speaker 6: that in that era. Yet the reason they're being cast
Speaker 6: is to play these roles of subjugation, which you know
Speaker 6: is problematic in its own right, but what you know,
Speaker 6: what choice do you have at the time?
Speaker 1: Those are the real dilemma, certainly, not just like Hany mcdannely,
Speaker 1: you said, and Butterfalo McQueen said, she barely didn't.
Speaker 2: She basically didn't work after that, she was just like
Speaker 2: seen as.
Speaker 6: Also there was a she was I think Vivianly was
Speaker 6: told to actually the directors actually slap her in the
Speaker 6: scene because it needs to look there's a couple of
Speaker 6: times where you know, hands are flying thick and fast,
Speaker 6: and she was told like, actually slap her. We want
Speaker 6: it to look real, right, so feel free to actually
Speaker 6: slap her. And and yeah, Butterfly, I like at one
Speaker 6: point at one point was like, I if you if
Speaker 6: she keeps actually hitting me, I'm not going to be
Speaker 6: able to do this scene anymore because she was so distraught.
Speaker 6: So then Vividly kind of pulled the punch as that
Speaker 6: were on the next take so they could get it right.
Speaker 6: But that's also what was happening on camera as well.
Speaker 6: It's interesting when you watch it because you take that
Speaker 6: in mind and think, and then the Academy is awarding
Speaker 6: her hattie for her performance, so there's something in that
Speaker 6: to go, well, okay, at least is there some kind
Speaker 6: of silver lining in the fact that they can look
Speaker 6: at a good performance and award it. And I don't
Speaker 6: know about you, but when I watch a film like this,
Speaker 6: if I haven't seen it before, sometimes I do look,
Speaker 6: especially if this one, like knowing it's going to be
Speaker 6: four hours, I'll do my homework on it beforehand, so
Speaker 6: if there's anything to look out for, I can keep
Speaker 6: an eye on it, rather than get to the end
Speaker 6: and go look it up and then go, oh, that's interesting.
Speaker 6: Now I have to go back and wak so knowing
Speaker 6: that I did go into it knowing that she had
Speaker 6: won the Oscar. So then you start watching the performance going,
Speaker 6: let's I wonder if there's any glimpse of where it is.
Speaker 6: And that's the scene where Melanie has come in because
Speaker 6: we've lost Bonnie.
Speaker 7: Bonnie's stacked it on the horse and.
Speaker 6: They're on their way up the stairs and Mammy is
Speaker 6: telling Melanie, bringing her up to speed on here's what's happening,
Speaker 6: and the horring things that are happening, where Rhett has
Speaker 6: got this deceased child in the room and he's not
Speaker 6: letting anyone in. He's telling everyone he's not even going
Speaker 6: to bury her. He's just at this absolute low.
Speaker 2: It is one shot.
Speaker 6: I don't think one take us in its take number
Speaker 6: one and then walked away. But certainly it's all done
Speaker 6: in one take, and Mammy has to just info dump
Speaker 6: on what's happening and how distressing it is for the house.
Speaker 6: It had been bliss, it was Phoenix from the ashes
Speaker 6: stuff almost literally, where the Tara is back to its
Speaker 6: glory days, everybody's happy again, and then boom, it's all
Speaker 6: been taken away and they've all been crushed once more.
Speaker 6: And she is now feeling that for the household. And
Speaker 6: as she's going up the stairwell, it starts from the
Speaker 6: bottom where she's upset, and it builds and builds and
Speaker 6: bills and she's got tears streaming down her eyes and
Speaker 6: it's one shot following her.
Speaker 2: We don't cut back to Olivia at all.
Speaker 7: To Melanie, we don't do that.
Speaker 6: We stay on her and she holds the scene the
Speaker 6: whole way up the staircase. It's incredible, Yeah, just incredible.
Speaker 1: There were little things like those long takes and also
Speaker 1: some little crash zooms that I wasn't expecting, like it's.
Speaker 7: A lot of eye lines out of place.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah.
Speaker 6: At one point, Madmy's talking to Rhett, who is on
Speaker 6: a horse, saying shouldn't let kids on horses.
Speaker 7: I'm just telling you it's bad news kids on horses.
Speaker 6: And you cut to him and it looks like she
Speaker 6: has suddenly climbed a ladder because he's not looking down.
Speaker 6: You go to the two shot her the back of
Speaker 6: her head is almost on her neck looking up. They
Speaker 6: cut to the close up of her and it's like
Speaker 6: suddenly she's decided she needs to really take in his
Speaker 6: groin or something, because her eye level is like straight.
Speaker 7: On and there's and that happens a lot in the
Speaker 7: film where they're just like just look ahead. The two
Speaker 7: shots not important of where you are. That doesn't need
Speaker 7: to match it.
Speaker 2: The line was crossed a couple of times.
Speaker 1: I think we can safely say that before we move
Speaker 1: on from all the heady McDaniel and all the race off,
Speaker 1: there's also she lost when she lost, so she won
Speaker 1: the Oscar. She was up against Olivia de Havlin, who
Speaker 1: was Malni and she was magnificient. She was magnificent and
Speaker 1: I thought almost gave a more modern performance than anyone
Speaker 1: else in the Like you know, sometimes you watch older
Speaker 1: films and they look like these are actors who look
Speaker 1: like they're from the golden age of Hollywood and they
Speaker 1: you know, there's something about Olivia the have.
Speaker 2: One that looked thoroughly modern. I don't know. I can't.
Speaker 2: I can imagine her in a in a movie that
Speaker 2: was made this year. I really cool.
Speaker 1: But when she lost to Harriet, there's conflicting stories. But
Speaker 1: apparently there's stories that she she stormed out, that she
Speaker 1: broke down in tears and said, like, my god, how
Speaker 1: can this happen. A relative of Haddie McDaniel has said
Speaker 1: that he had heard that she was upset initially, but
Speaker 1: then she actually said why not, Haddi McDaniel, Sure, why not?
Speaker 2: Which you know, you can be disappointed, you know, I want.
Speaker 1: To read too much into it was because Haddie was
Speaker 1: African American. It might have been that her own disappointment
Speaker 1: for losing. I like the thing that it was that
Speaker 1: I really did.
Speaker 6: Plenty of people who have been nominated for awards alongside
Speaker 6: cast members, and it's tough.
Speaker 2: It's very tough.
Speaker 6: And then when the other person wins, it's not that
Speaker 6: you're mad that they won, it's you're disappointed that you lost. Yes,
Speaker 6: And I would say that's probably what this is on
Speaker 6: a film of this scale, and the amazing job that
Speaker 6: Olivia de Haviln does in this too, she's well within
Speaker 6: her rights to go. I think I've got a good
Speaker 6: shot at this. Yeah, and then when she loses, that
Speaker 6: would be upsetting. Of course, no one likes to lose,
Speaker 6: and I would like to think that it's any any
Speaker 6: reason for her being upset is more on that than
Speaker 6: who won over her.
Speaker 2: Let's go with that, let's get well.
Speaker 1: Another positivity was it was an extra, an African American
Speaker 1: extra who was quite experienced as well, like he's probably
Speaker 1: almost playing below himself to be an extra on the film.
Speaker 1: He had some other credits and he noticed during the
Speaker 1: barbecue scene they were basically portoloo set up which had
Speaker 1: signs you know, whites and color and this is you.
Speaker 2: Know, it wasn't at this stage of segregated area.
Speaker 1: So he he kind of really he tried to get
Speaker 1: the older black actors, who I think had speaking past,
Speaker 1: to kind of say this is you know, this is
Speaker 1: not good enough. You know, this is we won't stand
Speaker 1: for this, and they were like, well, the others replace us.
Speaker 1: So then he I think got a couple of the
Speaker 1: other extras and said let's you know, let's say something,
Speaker 1: and they were like, oh, how about you say something?
Speaker 1: And he stormed into Carry Grant's trailer and they said,
Speaker 1: I need give me a minute and Carry Grant. Like
Speaker 1: he said earlier, he was he seemed like a good
Speaker 1: guy and I'm sure a complicated guy.
Speaker 4: But he.
Speaker 1: Went with him and followed him out and saw the
Speaker 1: portaloos and then went to the producer, David L. Selznak
Speaker 1: and said, this is this. If you an't take our
Speaker 1: science down, you don't have a rep Butler.
Speaker 6: So there were some good things happening, yeah, I mean,
Speaker 6: but it's also I mean, quite clearly there's terminology that
Speaker 6: I even sometimes struggled to understand how even in the
Speaker 6: nineteen thirties that was some thing that you could words
Speaker 6: that you could say on screen, or adjectives or descriptions
Speaker 6: like you know, they are inferior. And but for me,
Speaker 6: one of the and of course the slavery issue is there,
Speaker 6: and you go into it knowing it's there. Obviously we're
Speaker 6: watching it now that has a warning beforehand, and we
Speaker 6: can get to some of the other warnings that should
Speaker 6: maybe have beforehand.
Speaker 4: We will.
Speaker 6: But for me that the bit that I found most striking,
Speaker 6: I guess, was the strange scene of all the.
Speaker 7: Girls having a nap.
Speaker 2: Oh.
Speaker 6: Yes, and so they're at the party at twelve olks.
Speaker 6: All the men are going to go have a smoke
Speaker 6: and a drink and talk about the world. The girls
Speaker 6: will go for a nap. They all have a little
Speaker 6: afternoon rest almost, and as they're all lying in this
Speaker 6: huge room, there's just a shot of one small African
Speaker 6: American girl fanning them all with a peacock feather ostrich
Speaker 6: feather fan and I just thought that's probably what it
Speaker 6: was like, this kid, you know, having to do that
Speaker 6: for all these well to do white women sleeping in
Speaker 6: their very comfortable beds, and she's just sitting there in
Speaker 6: her you know, dirty little dress. Was to me one
Speaker 6: of the most impacting scenes in the whole film.
Speaker 2: It was something that I wasn't aware that and I
Speaker 2: can't imagine that happened.
Speaker 1: I don't think they're adding details like that into this
Speaker 1: movie because we can watch this movie and think, oh,
Speaker 1: how racist was everybody and how clueless were they to
Speaker 1: actually portray this like this. Surely they knew, but the
Speaker 1: fact was they were completely aware of the problems or
Speaker 1: some of the problems in the script, and they actually
Speaker 1: did try. There was an effort made, There was consult
Speaker 1: consultation with African American people. And the fact is the
Speaker 1: ku Kux Klan is in the book and it's not
Speaker 1: represented at all in the movie. There's talk of the
Speaker 1: gentleman being part of a political party or a political meeting,
Speaker 1: and that is the ku Klux Klan I see, which
Speaker 1: I think is a good thing because you look at
Speaker 1: a birth of a nation which is basically a celebration
Speaker 1: of the South and white supremacy. And there's from and
Speaker 1: I haven't seen it, but I'm told from a film
Speaker 1: a cinema point, there's so much to admire for it.
Speaker 2: But it's a celebration of the ku Klux Klan and
Speaker 2: white you know, empowerment.
Speaker 1: So I'm glad, you know, I'm glad we can watch
Speaker 1: Gone with the Wind, recognize its problems, understand how we
Speaker 1: have evolved since then, and how we still need to
Speaker 1: continue to evolve. Back to Melanie, because she is the
Speaker 1: light in this In this film, they want to play
Speaker 1: a scene involving Melanie and the local Madam Bell. While
Speaker 1: Madam Bell, Madame Bell who tried to donate money earlier,
Speaker 1: and they would not accept her dirty money, and only
Speaker 1: only Melanie accepted.
Speaker 2: And it came later on. Oh, come is a good thing.
Speaker 4: How can I thank you enough for what you did first?
Speaker 3: How can any of us thank you enough?
Speaker 4: I got your note saying he was going to call
Speaker 4: on me and thank mess. You must have lost your mind.
Speaker 4: I come up here as soon as it was dark
Speaker 4: to tell you mustn't even think of any such thing.
Speaker 4: Why I'm well, You're wouldn't be fitting at all. It
Speaker 4: wouldn't be fitting for me to call and thank a
Speaker 4: kind woman who saved my husband's life.
Speaker 3: Miss Wilkes.
Speaker 4: There ain't never been a lady in this town nice
Speaker 4: to be like you?
Speaker 9: Was?
Speaker 4: I mean about the money for the hospital, you know?
Speaker 4: And I don't forget a kindness. And I got to
Speaker 4: thinking about you being left a widow with a little boy.
Speaker 4: Mister Willikes got home and he's a nice little boy.
Speaker 4: Your boy's Ms Wilkes. I got a boy myself, so I,
Speaker 4: oh you have does he live? Oh no, he ain't here.
Speaker 4: In that letter.
Speaker 3: He ain't never been here.
Speaker 4: He's off at school.
Speaker 2: I ain't seen him since he was little.
Speaker 4: Oh well, anyways, I would have been that Miss Kennedy's
Speaker 4: husband by herself, I wouldn't have lifted her finger no
Speaker 4: matter what Captain Butler said. She's a mighty cold woman,
Speaker 4: Prance and Nevada Lanta by herself she killed her husband,
Speaker 4: saying as if she shot him.
Speaker 3: You mustn't say any kind of things about my sister love.
Speaker 4: Oh please don't reason, Miss Works. I forgot how you liked,
Speaker 4: but she just ain't in the same plans with you.
Speaker 4: And I can't help it if I think so.
Speaker 1: I mean, I wouldn't disagree with Bell Wantley there, but
Speaker 1: but I mean, how good is Melanie to Bell Whatley's
Speaker 1: has basically saved her husband, so she you know, they
Speaker 1: think she thanks her for doing that.
Speaker 2: And and Bell Whatley's very.
Speaker 1: Thankful and gracious towards Melanie for what she's done and
Speaker 1: has she has treated her. But when Bell crosses the
Speaker 1: line and says about, you know, about Scarlet, she draws
Speaker 1: a line like she goes, no, you can't say that about.
Speaker 2: My Yeah, that's when she knows full well that's what
Speaker 2: was going on.
Speaker 6: Yes, you know there Scarlet was literally coolling over Ashley,
Speaker 6: and oh, Ashley's back and isn't that great? Everything's fine
Speaker 6: when her own husband at that point, her second one
Speaker 6: has died or die off screen as well.
Speaker 2: I mean the first one.
Speaker 6: First one, Hamilton, we get a letter saying he's died
Speaker 6: in the war. Oh hey, before you think he's a hero,
Speaker 6: let's be very clear. He got pneumonia after getting the measles,
Speaker 6: so I don't even think he's getting a heroes welcome here.
Speaker 6: There is no flag draped over this coffin measles and
Speaker 6: pneumonia and so you.
Speaker 1: Know, ps, just so you know that musical that is
Speaker 1: going to take place, it's got nothing to guy.
Speaker 2: It's not him.
Speaker 6: Apparently the actor who played that role was very unhappy
Speaker 6: with how soppy the character was because he was a
Speaker 6: bit of an action saw himself as a bit of
Speaker 6: an action star, or the roles that he'd done before
Speaker 6: were very manly men, and he is this sort of
Speaker 6: quoft guy who dies from measles in the war.
Speaker 2: Very good, What did you so?
Speaker 1: While we're on Melanie, Before we move on Scarlet and Melanie,
Speaker 1: did you did you get it?
Speaker 9: Like?
Speaker 6: Even Scarlet welcomes her to the party. After Scarlet has
Speaker 6: been seen in the arms of her husband and she's
Speaker 6: the one who and you know, again this is rhet
Speaker 6: saying you have to take your medicine. You were seen
Speaker 6: with another man. Her husband. The daughter has seen you.
Speaker 6: She's told everyone in town. Everyone's shitcanning you. And now
Speaker 6: you have to take your medicine and turn up to
Speaker 6: that party. And when she kicks you out, that's the
Speaker 6: punishment you have to take when you were publicly shamed.
Speaker 7: That serves you right. What a lovely husband he is.
Speaker 6: And then she turns up and Melanie's like, welcome, Scarlet,
Speaker 6: what an amazing dress. Do you look beautiful? Do you
Speaker 6: know the Harsford meet my sister in law? Come on in, Well,
Speaker 6: don't just stand there, doctor, get her a drink, like
Speaker 6: just what a saint?
Speaker 2: A saint?
Speaker 1: And you kind of expect that at some point if
Speaker 1: it was a modern movie, you feel at some point
Speaker 1: Melanie leans in to Scarlet and says.
Speaker 2: I'll never forgive you. You'll say something this sea.
Speaker 6: I know what you did, and I think it feels
Speaker 6: like all of this has come from back when Atlanta
Speaker 6: was burning. The baby's coming, and Scarlet actually runs in
Speaker 6: to get Melanie and drags her out of the house,
Speaker 6: pluts her in the wagon and takes her to safety.
Speaker 6: That that is something that Melanie for the rest of
Speaker 6: her life just never forgets, no matter what else happens.
Speaker 6: Myself and my daughter are here because of Scarlet. And
Speaker 6: that's actually one of Scarlet's redeeming moments, slowly, very quickly
Speaker 6: undercut by the fact she literally whips a horse, the
Speaker 6: horse to death right outside.
Speaker 2: We're nearly there quick, Let's let's just stop down on
Speaker 2: this because I wrote, did Scarlett just kill a horse?
Speaker 2: Kill the horse? Because I thought, like, I think you
Speaker 2: just killed the horse was dead way outside. Surely they've
Speaker 2: just arrived at Tara, so they're not this traveling.
Speaker 10: The horses has been like it's just down the hill,
Speaker 10: roaming from the mouth, coming from the mouth. Maybe get
Speaker 10: in a bucket of water and reward the horse. Drag
Speaker 10: Thory fire hidden under a bridge basically got you to
Speaker 10: where you are now, did its job one. I was
Speaker 10: hoping what she had done a in a and I
Speaker 10: I really didn't want to whip.
Speaker 2: The horse to death. So what I thought was she
Speaker 2: she had like a stick where you're kind of like
Speaker 2: released it, you know, I got got the.
Speaker 6: Horse got away, So she's released the reins and the
Speaker 6: horse got away, both running.
Speaker 2: Over and falling down.
Speaker 6: It was it was that was shocking to me. It
Speaker 6: was it was quite shocking. It wasn't one of her
Speaker 6: finest money.
Speaker 1: And also it's a weird I know, we treat animals
Speaker 1: far better now, certainly on screen and hopefully off screen
Speaker 1: as well, than than the US.
Speaker 2: I'm not sure there's the No.
Speaker 1: I didn't I didn't spot that up. But a weird
Speaker 1: choice to make to make the the heroine of your
Speaker 1: film kill a horse that has only done its job.
Speaker 6: Hero horse heroes, where's the horse of statue? Where's the
Speaker 6: whe's the memories of the horse? Do we have any
Speaker 6: kind of mention of the horse latter on? No, I
Speaker 6: mean there's another horse that when the father is trying
Speaker 6: to chase the carpetbagger off, he goes to jump the
Speaker 6: fence and falls off and dies.
Speaker 7: People can't survive horse falls back in the day.
Speaker 1: Well, seriously, I think, to be honest, I think the
Speaker 1: horse killed Bonnie. I think the horse was revenge. That
Speaker 1: was revenge killing.
Speaker 6: Well, when the dad died, that horse at least licked
Speaker 6: him on the cheek afterwards as he's lying on the ground,
Speaker 6: like a like a very loyal dog.
Speaker 2: Has licked him on the cheek.
Speaker 6: And I don't know whether that was to cover his tracks,
Speaker 6: like oh he was he was like this when I
Speaker 6: found him or not. But that horse was almost MVP
Speaker 6: for the film is like, well, look, I was texting
Speaker 6: back and forth with comedian Dave Camen, who knew that
Speaker 6: we were going into this. He said, keep me up
Speaker 6: to date with how things are going, and he said,
Speaker 6: how was? I said, look, the horse was nice. There
Speaker 6: was there's a nice horse.
Speaker 2: I can give it that.
Speaker 6: But yeah, one of Scarlet's lines, even when she's rebuilding Tara,
Speaker 6: was she's like, yes, I can rebuild Tara. So everyone
Speaker 6: who was ever mean to me is p green with envy,
Speaker 6: like what a motivation for doing it? Not because yes,
Speaker 6: my family home.
Speaker 2: I can do this. And even at one point when she.
Speaker 6: Says to Ashley, let's run away together, you and I
Speaker 6: and he's like, could you just like leave your sisters
Speaker 6: and your father and she's like, yeah, absolutely I could.
Speaker 7: I could leave all of them and they're fun.
Speaker 2: Let's go.
Speaker 6: So there's there's all of that that makes her quite unlikable.
Speaker 6: But then like there's the Yankee soldier who breaks into
Speaker 6: the house, and then Tarantina didn't man, I have in
Speaker 6: my notes in all caps, she shot him in the face,
Speaker 6: like that was shot.
Speaker 2: In the face.
Speaker 6: This is just me in the face, in the face,
Speaker 6: all camps, exclamation mark. But that moment, there's Melanie, who
Speaker 6: is incredibly ill at that point, and she's making her
Speaker 6: way downstairs and the two of them are like, we
Speaker 6: have to fix this. And that's another moment where everybody
Speaker 6: suddenly outside is like what was that sound? And Melanie
Speaker 6: calls out to the girls and to the dad and says, ah, Scarlett,
Speaker 6: we're just mucking around with a gun and it accidentally
Speaker 6: went off. Everything's fine, no one panic. You stay out there,
Speaker 6: you know, we'll we'll fix it. It's nothing to worry about.
Speaker 6: And Scarlett looks at her and says like, essentially, thank you,
Speaker 6: and why did you do that? And then it was like,
Speaker 6: we gotta we got to get rid of this guy.
Speaker 6: Let's let's let's do it. That's amazing.
Speaker 1: And I really love this for Melanie because she is
Speaker 1: such a saint and it's you know, like I said,
Speaker 1: the film can't be about Melanie because she's too good.
Speaker 1: But I like this this moment, because she actually even
Speaker 1: says I'm glad you killed him. Like it's the first
Speaker 1: little bit of a dark aside to Melanie that we see.
Speaker 1: I do love the line which I wrote down. Scarlet says,
Speaker 1: I guess I've done murder. I won't think about that now.
Speaker 1: I'll think about that tomorrow, which kind of it kind
Speaker 1: of sums up how Scarlett thinks is it's like I'll
Speaker 1: think that stuff tomorrow. It's not for today. I'm going
Speaker 1: to put things off tomorrow. Her motivations are very may
Speaker 1: We do know her motivator motivation is to find a
Speaker 1: man and to be well kept.
Speaker 2: But I think she.
Speaker 1: Evolves under Melanie's tutorage, if you like, Melanie in a
Speaker 1: weird way becomes her mentor without I think Scarlett kind
Speaker 1: of realizing that, you know, she starts working in the hospitals,
Speaker 1: the military hospitals. You know, you do see her incrementally
Speaker 1: become a better person.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and I can see how, you know, remembering again
Speaker 6: the umbrella under which this is set, so it's civil war,
Speaker 6: especially going into it, they're all like, well we're going
Speaker 6: to win this. Let's go in typical fashion, They're like,
Speaker 6: we'll be back in a couple of weeks. What are
Speaker 6: you talking about as long as we going to.
Speaker 2: Get pneumonia on the measles?
Speaker 7: I mean, come, what's the likely got of that happening
Speaker 7: or how old it might.
Speaker 6: And so I think there's also for Melanie, there's a
Speaker 6: little bit of like if if we don't have each other,
Speaker 6: what do we have?
Speaker 7: You know, the men are doing their things.
Speaker 6: We as women, you know, we obviously have our own
Speaker 6: role that we are forced to play in this society.
Speaker 6: And everything that we hold deer has been completely decimated.
Speaker 6: This is obviously shown through the lens of the South
Speaker 6: and how they interpret the war, and as they're going
Speaker 6: through a lot of the beats, historical beats of what
Speaker 6: has happened, the descriptions of what's happening in the invaders,
Speaker 6: and you know Sherman, who's the Yankee general, the general
Speaker 6: from the North, the terms that they used to describe him,
Speaker 6: and how he's attacking and they're coming and they're burning
Speaker 6: and pillaging, and look, that probably happened. Just because I
Speaker 6: think it's very easy for us to look at a
Speaker 6: war as a binary thing. These guys were against a
Speaker 6: bad thing, so therefore they were the bad guys. So
Speaker 6: all of those fighting for Lincoln and the North, they
Speaker 6: were the good guys because they were fighting on the
Speaker 6: right side of history. Doesn't mean they fought in any
Speaker 6: kind of moral way. Not everybody. But there's always going
Speaker 6: to be bad apples. It's even happening in the modern day.
Speaker 6: There's a lot of scandals that are sort of coming
Speaker 6: out about how things are being fought. So as this
Speaker 6: story is being told, you realize, yeah, it was horrible.
Speaker 2: It's war.
Speaker 6: Of course, life is pretty tough anyway. And then when
Speaker 6: it's just destroyed, if you then turn on the one
Speaker 6: potential ally you could have in life, is that really
Speaker 6: worth it in the grand scheme of things. I don't
Speaker 6: think Scarlett thinks about that too much. I think she's
Speaker 6: thinking more of how do I get through tomorrow. But
Speaker 6: I think Melanie's thinking long term. She's thinking long game,
Speaker 6: and I think she realizes, sure, you may have the
Speaker 6: hots for my husband. I think she's aware of it.
Speaker 6: I don't see it as her being naive. She's just like, look,
Speaker 6: we just need to be better than and if we're
Speaker 6: in this together is better than us being on our own.
Speaker 1: I think that's an excellent sormation of that. I mean
Speaker 1: the it could have been. I expected it's more of
Speaker 1: a celebration of war. I knew the war played obviously
Speaker 1: a big part of it civil war, but it really isn't.
Speaker 1: It's quite an anti war film. There's no battle scenes,
Speaker 1: there's no glorified battle scenes. It's you've seen the result
Speaker 1: of war. And even I think rat or ashually talk
Speaker 1: about earlier about you.
Speaker 6: Know, actually most of the miseries of the world were
Speaker 6: caused by war, and when the war was over, no
Speaker 6: one ever knew what the war was about.
Speaker 2: Exactly right. And it's Ashley and.
Speaker 1: Rats who out of two dissenting voices and almost saying,
Speaker 1: you guys are silly. And I think a lot of
Speaker 1: a lot of the Southerners are portrayed as us. This
Speaker 1: is silly, this is this is it's not smart what
Speaker 1: you're doing, and it's not you're not thinking about what's
Speaker 1: going You just want war for war's sake. I mean
Speaker 1: the very first scene of those those two, you know,
Speaker 1: it's Richie Cunningham and and Superman.
Speaker 2: It's two redheads talking to us.
Speaker 6: One of which George Reeves who plays Superman in the
Speaker 6: television series The Old black and white television as soon
Speaker 6: as that was my first because I.
Speaker 2: Know my Superman.
Speaker 1: I was thinking Ralph Richie from Happy Days, but who
Speaker 1: were not portrayed by those actors.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's just this why don't you want war? Scarlet?
Speaker 1: You know, like what we see, like those those scenes
Speaker 1: with the bodies, which, oh my god, when you when
Speaker 1: you stop and think there's no c g I going
Speaker 1: on here like that, they were, there's bodies.
Speaker 2: Actually they've they've made this shot work.
Speaker 6: I think it's But even coming from that is the
Speaker 6: scene where Scarlet acting as a as a nurse. There's
Speaker 6: the soldier, the wounded soldier who needs his leg amputat
Speaker 6: and then like we have no more anesthetic. Yeah, and
Speaker 6: if you want to live, you've got to lose the leg.
Speaker 6: And he's like just okay, well just we've got to
Speaker 6: cut it off. And she can't bear to hear his
Speaker 6: screams and watch this happen in this rudimentary hospital, and
Speaker 6: so she leaves to flee that scene, that image, and
Speaker 6: doing so walks out into just you know, bodies strewn everywhere,
Speaker 6: and that incredible, which I now think is an iconic
Speaker 6: shot that gets parody quite a bit, although I think
Speaker 6: there's another film, is a Platoon or something where there's
Speaker 6: a similar sort of shot. I don't know, but that
Speaker 6: idea of the crane shot that pulls up and you
Speaker 6: just see, like you say, it's all bodies. Some of
Speaker 6: them I think were because of paying extras to lie
Speaker 6: on the ground. Some of them are actually just mannequin's dummies,
Speaker 6: but still they are all physically there. And that's just
Speaker 6: a very impacting shot. And going into this film, I
Speaker 6: didn't think there would be like any dark tones like that.
Speaker 6: I thought it was all going to be, you know,
Speaker 6: isn't life grand down here in the South on our wonderful,
Speaker 6: beautiful plantations and life, and it's all going to be
Speaker 6: love triangles and who's with who and a bit pride
Speaker 6: and prejudice.
Speaker 7: And it's not that at all.
Speaker 1: No, Like I said earlier when I had this rocky
Speaker 1: roller coaster reaction to the film is almost even aesthetically
Speaker 1: there are these amazing shots. So those the burning of
Speaker 1: Atlanta and the silhouettes behind them, these burning buildings, apparently
Speaker 1: the King concepts they were.
Speaker 2: They literally set things on fire.
Speaker 6: Yeah, and to the point where residents in Burbank were
Speaker 6: calling the fire department saying the MGM studio is on fire.
Speaker 7: You need to go because the place is burning down.
Speaker 2: Incredibles.
Speaker 1: So you go from these shots and that sequence in
Speaker 1: the in the horse and cart with Rhett and Scarlet
Speaker 1: with the baby and Melanie in the back.
Speaker 2: Is it almost becomes like a zombie movie for a
Speaker 2: little while.
Speaker 1: You got people that's trying to clamor onto and and
Speaker 1: grab their guns, and it's it's amazing.
Speaker 2: But then yeah, there's really beautiful shots.
Speaker 1: But then you'll go to a shot where it's maybe
Speaker 1: a close up of the two shots of Rett and
Speaker 1: Scarlet and there's clearly like a green screen behind them.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's just it's just one of those like
Speaker 2: old school.
Speaker 6: It's like just a screen that's moving, a moving image
Speaker 6: behind them, and they're just jumping, tostling up and down.
Speaker 7: On a horse to make it look like they're trotting.
Speaker 6: But all that, all that sort of silhouetted imagery of
Speaker 6: even the big climax at the end of part one,
Speaker 6: because we should stress if you've never seen this movie before,
Speaker 6: it comes with a literal opening overture yep, which just
Speaker 6: has the word overture and you hear music as if
Speaker 6: you were headed into the theater. There's a literal intermission
Speaker 6: where the word intermission is on screen for like twenty minutes,
Speaker 6: and then there's a I forget the word, but there's
Speaker 6: a basically an exit tune to get you out. So
Speaker 6: end of Act one, Part one, two hours in is
Speaker 6: the scene of Scarlet. She's finally back at tar. It's
Speaker 6: been burned to the ground and she's like, you know
Speaker 6: you will, this will not end me. I will rise
Speaker 6: up and she is running across the plantation. There's nothing
Speaker 6: left and it's just her in complete silhouette and this
Speaker 6: like red orange skyes imagery they use quite a bit,
Speaker 6: but man, it looks sensational visually. It looks that for
Speaker 6: me was the big takeaway that I went, I can
Speaker 6: see why this one best picture that on a big
Speaker 6: screen incredible, and there's a lot of it, and a
Speaker 6: lot of even the interiors, a lot of the lighting
Speaker 6: is casting these huge looming shadows up the walls as
Speaker 6: people are going up and down these staircases, and it
Speaker 6: kind of adds to the sense of sort of harrowing
Speaker 6: nature that was going on and foreboding that's happening within
Speaker 6: the movie.
Speaker 1: The ambition in this film, starting with the way it
Speaker 1: was shot, is staggering. Let's have a listen to Scale
Speaker 1: O'Hara with that famous scene as which, like you say,
Speaker 1: it takes us to intermission, there'll be no intimission on
Speaker 1: the podcast. You're listening for as long as we have you.
Speaker 1: This is the famous line as God is my witness.
Speaker 7: God is my witness.
Speaker 4: God is my witness, and not going to live me.
Speaker 4: I'm going to live through this and when it's all over,
Speaker 4: I'll never be hungry again.
Speaker 8: No, not any of my book.
Speaker 4: If I have a lies to cheat, dog kill, God
Speaker 4: is my witness, I'll never be hungry again.
Speaker 1: Now let's go to the candy barn, gets some popcorn
Speaker 1: and some chop tops. And what's actually really what I
Speaker 1: love when we watch these films is knowing what was
Speaker 1: happening in the world when this was released. So there's
Speaker 1: coming off the Great Depression and we had to go
Speaker 1: into a war like the war was breaking out, you know,
Speaker 1: when this film gets released. So there is a lot
Speaker 1: of I think talk about hunger in this film, and
Speaker 1: I think this scene sets it up the most. And
Speaker 1: also just the idea of women keeping houses and lives
Speaker 1: going as the men go off to battle.
Speaker 6: Like even when the soldiers coming into the house and
Speaker 6: he sees Scarlet and his first question is, oh, you
Speaker 6: here by yourself? Where's the man of the house? And
Speaker 6: if there is no man of the house, then obviously
Speaker 6: that makes you vulnerable. So there's a lot of that
Speaker 6: in there as well, And it's good to play that
Speaker 6: clip to remind us that that's this is what Scarlet's saying.
Speaker 6: Like her motivation and drive for getting out of Atlanta
Speaker 6: and taking Melanie with her with the baby was to
Speaker 6: get back to Tara. That's all she could think. If
Speaker 6: I can get back to Tara, everything's going to be okay.
Speaker 6: She gets there, kills a horse along the way, and
Speaker 6: then and then let's it go with the magic stick.
Speaker 2: You've got to keep bring in enough whatever.
Speaker 6: And then she sees that it's it hasn't been destroyed,
Speaker 6: but there's nothing left. All the food's been gone, the
Speaker 6: horses have gone, stables have been burnt down, And this
Speaker 6: is her saying like, I will never ever let this
Speaker 6: happen again. So to then you can't fault her for
Speaker 6: having ambition and maybe making some questionable choices along the way,
Speaker 6: but it's self preservation and that's the era that she
Speaker 6: was in, and I guess the world was kind of
Speaker 6: in at the time.
Speaker 1: She wants to win at life, you know, and whatever
Speaker 1: that takes. And she's not the first person in cinema
Speaker 1: or off screen to want to do that. Why do
Speaker 1: you think Rhett enlisted in the end. Let's have a
Speaker 1: listen to when he tells Scarlet that he actually is
Speaker 1: joining the war effort.
Speaker 7: You won't hold me like that, got it?
Speaker 3: Look at me of you more than I've ever loved
Speaker 3: any woman. And I've waited longer for you than I've
Speaker 3: ever waited for any woman.
Speaker 9: Let me alone.
Speaker 3: He is a soldier in the South who loves you. Scunner,
Speaker 3: wants to feel your arms about him, wants to carry
Speaker 3: the memory of your kisses into battle with him. Never
Speaker 3: mind about letting me. You're a woman sending a soldier
Speaker 3: to his death with a beautiful memory it kiss me,
Speaker 3: kiss me.
Speaker 9: You.
Speaker 2: No down party tells anything. You never right. Everybody was
Speaker 2: right you.
Speaker 11: You are a gentleman, a minor point in such a moment. Yeah,
Speaker 11: if anyone lays a hand on that, nag, shoot him.
Speaker 11: But don't make a mistake and shoot.
Speaker 4: The nag Oh go on, I want you to go.
Speaker 4: I hope we cant of all land leap on you.
Speaker 5: I hope a million.
Speaker 3: Pieces time the rest.
Speaker 8: I follow your general idea, and when I'm dead on
Speaker 8: order by country, I hope your conscience surgery.
Speaker 3: Goodbye's comment.
Speaker 6: Yeah, it's well, look, it's simple to look at it
Speaker 6: face value, which is he's like, I'm off to fight
Speaker 6: the war and she says, how dare you. He's also like, well,
Speaker 6: you've got to kiss me, and she's like, no, I
Speaker 6: don't want to kiss you. And you can sit there
Speaker 6: going what is this? But in the context of when
Speaker 6: that scene happens, so Rhett has swept in just at
Speaker 6: the right moment when everything was going belly up in Atlanta,
Speaker 6: to take the girls and rescue them, get them out
Speaker 6: of Atlanta, and they finally are on their way to Tara.
Speaker 6: It's now the worst of it is behind them. He
Speaker 6: I took it as has seen now what this war
Speaker 6: actually is. As a man who is who has left
Speaker 6: the army gone awol before has now decided, you know
Speaker 6: what I need to I can't just let this happen.
Speaker 7: I can't sit idly by I need to do my bit,
Speaker 7: because this is it.
Speaker 6: Everything's going to be gone, and what's the point of saying, well,
Speaker 6: I'll just stay out of it if there's if there's
Speaker 6: nothing at the end. At the same time, Scarlet's like,
Speaker 6: finally Rhett is here, I'm back. I feel safe, and
Speaker 6: right in that moment, he's like, I need to go
Speaker 6: fight the war. I just need to go fight the war.
Speaker 2: And she's like, what are you talking about.
Speaker 6: We're just we're home and host now Tara over there,
Speaker 6: dead horse on the way and we're good to go, mate,
Speaker 6: And he's like, no, I can't do that. Now give
Speaker 6: me a kiss before I go, so I've at least
Speaker 6: got something to hang on to. She's like, I'm not
Speaker 6: giving you a kiss.
Speaker 2: Now, you're just going to throw this at my face.
Speaker 6: Right when I think once again everything's coming up, Scarlet,
Speaker 6: you have to go and pull the rug out.
Speaker 2: So no, I'm not going to give you a kiss.
Speaker 2: And I can understand how you get it. You do, oh,
Speaker 2: and I understand.
Speaker 1: But the way through the movie, rehtt is manipularly, there's
Speaker 1: no doubt about that, Like that that say you need
Speaker 1: to kiss me because I'm going off the war like.
Speaker 1: I mean, I can understand if I was going off
Speaker 1: the wall. Yeah I want to, I want to peck,
Speaker 1: you know. But at that point it did remind me,
Speaker 1: you know that as I was kind of, I guess
Speaker 1: warming the scarlet. At some point I was also going
Speaker 1: to go, oh, rat's actually in a bit of a douche.
Speaker 2: She says, you're no gentleman.
Speaker 6: Yeah, And then I don't know if it's at that
Speaker 6: point or somewhere else, and he says, well, that's a
Speaker 6: fine thing coming from a woman like you.
Speaker 2: Just well, don I'm being the better person here. I
Speaker 2: do feel that.
Speaker 1: Early on, more so, I could see that Rep. Butler
Speaker 1: is almost a prototype for Han Solo Weirdley. I had
Speaker 1: this feeling like, is that kind of brogue because he's
Speaker 1: a blockade run that's it, And he was going a
Speaker 1: rogue ish, you know, he was quick with a joke.
Speaker 2: He goes into darker territories.
Speaker 1: Ever, didn't let's maybe talk about that other problem problem
Speaker 1: with the film, or one of the other problems is
Speaker 1: just the well, well it's called of I guess I
Speaker 1: would call it marital rape.
Speaker 6: It's non consensual sex, that's for sure. Where a very
Speaker 6: drunken Brett. We should point out as well. I'm not justifying.
Speaker 6: I'm just saying that, you know, we're doubling down on
Speaker 6: how bad it is.
Speaker 1: And it's so interesting because I I before, actually where
Speaker 1: the scene kind of almost ends, I thought, wow, this
Speaker 1: is this just feels almost like a different film, and
Speaker 1: almost felt like quite a modern dark film. When they're
Speaker 1: at the table and let's have it listen to a
Speaker 1: drunken rat and he's got to put his hands on scarlet.
Speaker 4: If you want a drunken and selling I could explain everything.
Speaker 3: You get out of that chair once more.
Speaker 5: Of course, the comic figure and all this is the
Speaker 5: long suffering mister Wilkes, mister Wilkes who can't be mentally
Speaker 5: faithful to his wife and won't be unfaithful to it.
Speaker 3: Technically that doesn't he make up his mind? What you.
Speaker 9: Observe? My hands, my dear, I gotta tear you to
Speaker 9: pieces with him, And I'd do it if it'd take
Speaker 9: anything out of your mind forever, but it wouldn't.
Speaker 3: So I'll remove him from your mind forever.
Speaker 2: This way.
Speaker 3: I'll put my hands so one not.
Speaker 9: And I sp sure go between them like a warner
Speaker 9: that'll block him out.
Speaker 8: Take your hands off me.
Speaker 3: You're drunken food. You know I've always admired your spirit,
Speaker 3: my dead, never more than now when you're cornered. I'm
Speaker 3: not cornered, You'll never can any red. Butler, Oh, frightened.
Speaker 2: You've lived in dirt so long you.
Speaker 8: Can't understand me.
Speaker 4: You're jealous of something you can't understand.
Speaker 3: Good Night.
Speaker 2: I mean it's it's so dark. And it gets to
Speaker 2: a darker place.
Speaker 6: And when he says, yeah, I've got my hands, you
Speaker 6: should point out he comes around behind her. She's sitting
Speaker 6: in a chair, very dark and sin He comes around
Speaker 6: behind her and essentially places a hand either side of
Speaker 6: her head, like huge hands, like a melon, and is
Speaker 6: pushing his fingers in and insinuating, I will, yeah, crush
Speaker 6: as he says, I will crush your skull with in
Speaker 6: my bare hands.
Speaker 2: And Scarlet doesn't barge on it.
Speaker 1: She she holds her ground like she's she's she's frightened,
Speaker 1: but she's you can see, she's she's brave, like she's
Speaker 1: you know, she's.
Speaker 2: She tells him that you know that the stop.
Speaker 1: Then they get and and and then it goes to
Speaker 1: even in a more problematic area where he forces a
Speaker 1: kiss on her and then he basically says, you can't
Speaker 1: stop me taking what's mine ton idols or something.
Speaker 6: I'm going to take you upstairs and essentially, for the
Speaker 6: first time, you're not going to say no to me,
Speaker 6: and you're going to give me what I want.
Speaker 1: Because before this scene he has discovered she's been longing
Speaker 1: after this photo, she's been hiding in the inner or
Speaker 1: keepsake of Ashley. So what even follows is problematic because
Speaker 1: we cut to the next month. He goes up the
Speaker 1: stairs and I got to say, beautifully shot the shadows.
Speaker 2: It's in the shadows.
Speaker 6: Again, it's like, at least to an extent there, they're
Speaker 6: not being you know. It starts with them seemingly taking
Speaker 6: this as serious as the scene is because it's very
Speaker 6: darkly lit. Like you say, he takes her upstairs, and
Speaker 6: the way the stairs are lit, as they get to
Speaker 6: the top, they just disappear into shadow and it's very ominous.
Speaker 1: Cut two cut to Scarlet waking up almost almost bright peppy,
Speaker 1: like it's her birthday and she's yeah, great, great sleep,
Speaker 1: And so that idea that oh rat was right, that's
Speaker 1: actually what she needed is what's I find or just
Speaker 1: that it's.
Speaker 7: Been shrugged off even you know that.
Speaker 6: I wasn't sure how to interpret that, whether it was yes,
Speaker 6: that has fixed things, or whether it didn't impact her
Speaker 6: in any way. But how whichever way you slice that,
Speaker 6: it doesn't it doesn't stack up. That was a real issue,
Speaker 6: and again one of those things in a film that
Speaker 6: you go into knowing, Okay, we've got some very tricky
Speaker 6: issues we're going to face. That's one of those ones
Speaker 6: too that I sit there thinking, you know, if we're
Speaker 6: going to be acknowledging before a film, Hey, there are
Speaker 6: some triggering aspects to this.
Speaker 7: I think that's one of them. Like that's that you know,
Speaker 7: domestic abuse and.
Speaker 6: Sexual abuse is part of it, and it's it's addressed
Speaker 6: in a or approached in a similar way where yes
Speaker 6: we show it, but we're not actually giving it the
Speaker 6: same weight and similar to the way that slavery is
Speaker 6: depicted to among others.
Speaker 2: Yeah, he came as a surprise.
Speaker 1: I was expecting the racial stuff and was shocked and
Speaker 1: wanted to understand that a little bit more. And there's
Speaker 1: plenty of articles online and videos you can watch to
Speaker 1: learn more more than you will even learn.
Speaker 6: And also and you know this should almost come with
Speaker 6: the trigger warning itself. But then there's a scene towards
Speaker 6: the end of the film where from that night, Scarlett
Speaker 6: gets pregnant again, which they didn't want to do. They
Speaker 6: were saying, we don't want to have another baby at
Speaker 6: this point and Rhett, at this point they've decided they
Speaker 6: will take some time apart technically separated. Rhet goes away
Speaker 6: with their daughter Bonnie Bonnie missus mum. So Rhett says, okay,
Speaker 6: maybe I should come back, and that's when Scarlet says
Speaker 6: to him, Hey, I'm going to have a baby, and
Speaker 6: they both sort of acknowledge that's not necessarily the best
Speaker 6: news in the world, and Rhett says to her, cheer up,
Speaker 6: maybe you'll have an accidents, at which point they struggle
Speaker 6: and she does this is not because of him. He
Speaker 6: doesn't do this intentionally. However, she does then fall down
Speaker 6: the stairs and loses the baby. So even just that
Speaker 6: line beforehand is it's like a slap to the face
Speaker 6: when he says that, you're like, whoa. There's there's a
Speaker 6: lot of these types of moments in the film. Yeah,
Speaker 6: that you do need to strap yourself in for when
Speaker 6: when you sign up to sit through it.
Speaker 1: And there's so much happening. I feel like it does
Speaker 1: sag a little bit in the in the in the final,
Speaker 1: the third act, or he's.
Speaker 7: At the fourth fifth, so many but VHS tape two.
Speaker 1: You know, and yet Bonnie dies and Molly dies and
Speaker 1: there's so much kind of going on. The one thing
Speaker 1: I did find quite unbelievable was when HTT went to
Speaker 1: London and wanted to take Bonnie with her. What goes
Speaker 1: to an oversea street and wants to take a three
Speaker 1: year old with him.
Speaker 2: It's not plausible in nineteen thirty nine. It's not plausible
Speaker 2: in twenty twenty two.
Speaker 6: Let's be very honest. There was no euro Disney then,
Speaker 6: there was no Harry Potter World.
Speaker 2: You know, it was an amazing quick trip as well.
Speaker 2: They went there and went there like they're on the shirt.
Speaker 2: She has a nightmare. He goes, okay, we betta go back.
Speaker 6: That came and he's been out, he's been out that
Speaker 6: night and he's yelling at he's yelling at the nanny
Speaker 6: that they have there.
Speaker 2: Yeh know, it's like under the light of Big Ben,
Speaker 2: what are you doing leaving her in this room? In
Speaker 2: the dark, But where have you been?
Speaker 1: Let's get to the famous final before we wrap this up,
Speaker 1: because we're in danger of going longer than the movie.
Speaker 1: Let's get let let's let's get to the final, the
Speaker 1: final classic line that he's uttered by the wonderful Clark Gable.
Speaker 9: You got.
Speaker 3: Frankly made here. I don't give a damn.
Speaker 1: So sorry, Scart, my apologies. So I knew this happened
Speaker 1: late in the film, that it might have been been
Speaker 1: the last line. What what I did not know was
Speaker 1: I always imagined this line as a sweeping romantic moment
Speaker 1: as far as like, I almost imagine the poster like
Speaker 1: that this line happened when we the poster is of
Speaker 1: Clark Gable almost dipping scull of the horror. I was
Speaker 1: gonna say, you're handsome. I'm sure if visory makes you
Speaker 1: would be up for the role. But it really is
Speaker 1: a it's not a romantic moment of all. It's the
Speaker 1: opposite of that, is like, no, I've had enough. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'm at the end of my tether. I'm out, I'm out.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 6: I think it's always been overshadowed by the idea that
Speaker 6: in nineteen thirty nine, saying damn on screen. This is
Speaker 6: considered the first wad word massive was massive, and there's
Speaker 6: a lot of rumor and scufflebut over you know that
Speaker 6: they were fined for putting it out there, and I think,
Speaker 6: is I don't know how much of that is true.
Speaker 6: I think it's more to the point of it's a
Speaker 6: big deal to say the word damn on screen massive,
Speaker 6: So I think that kind of overshadows the context of it.
Speaker 6: So I think I'd never I think I'd always seen
Speaker 6: it as there was this unrequited love he at the
Speaker 6: end like he was I don't know, playing hard to
Speaker 6: get or she was, you know, she was somewhat of
Speaker 6: a villainous in the film or something, and that's him
Speaker 6: walking I over the years knew that that's him walking
Speaker 6: away from her. I did not know that it came
Speaker 6: with well, they had sort of this on again, off
Speaker 6: again relationship for so long. So this just for all
Speaker 6: the push and pull that they've had in a four
Speaker 6: plus four hour film that right at the very end,
Speaker 6: in a manner of matter of literal minutes, Scarlett goes Ashley,
Speaker 6: I'm done.
Speaker 7: Oh my god, htt Why did I not see it before?
Speaker 6: And she marches in and goes Raht, and he goes, no,
Speaker 6: you know what, I've had enough now, I've literally had enough.
Speaker 2: I'm done.
Speaker 6: Right at that moment, the timing that they both tipped
Speaker 6: to where she says I'm in and he says I'm
Speaker 6: out after so long was really.
Speaker 2: Hard for me to get on board with. He does
Speaker 2: feel like things really right now, just like that, Thank you,
Speaker 2: This is how it is. Thank I Bridge. Did you
Speaker 2: watch it with me? Because she would have been.
Speaker 1: This is seriously four hours, four hours and they can't
Speaker 1: where they're shit out.
Speaker 2: We expected them to where there's shit out come on.
Speaker 7: But my my big thing afterwards was like, okay, then
Speaker 7: I've never known that.
Speaker 2: Then what and to see? So Scarlet goes, she falls
Speaker 2: on the stairs.
Speaker 7: She looks up and then she says, well, I'll you know,
Speaker 7: I'll do what I always do.
Speaker 6: I'll get back, lift myself up by my bootstraps, and
Speaker 6: I'll keep on fighting and rebuild and maybe one day
Speaker 6: I'll find you, Reht, and we'll we'll go through this
Speaker 6: again and we'll and we'll get back together. And then
Speaker 6: she looks up almost barrels the camera and she says,
Speaker 6: because tomorrow is another day, and I suddenly realized that's
Speaker 6: where the saying comes from. Right, it comes from the book,
Speaker 6: which gets put in the film, which now has become
Speaker 6: almost a cliche that everybody uses.
Speaker 7: That was where, that's where it's it's up.
Speaker 6: I don't give a damn yeah. And yet I've never
Speaker 6: connected it to the movie at all. No, because at
Speaker 6: first I went, oh, that's an odd way to sort
Speaker 6: of and she delivers it with such gravitas.
Speaker 7: I did a quick google to go, is that where
Speaker 7: the line comes from? And sure enough it was.
Speaker 1: That's that's really interesting because you watch it and go
Speaker 1: it's a bit of a meek line to end a
Speaker 1: movie on. But if you're hearing that as a new
Speaker 1: concept for the first time, that tomorrow is a new day,
Speaker 1: that's that's very poetic.
Speaker 2: That's beautiful. That is beautiful. It's not like, yeah, she
Speaker 2: looks up there.
Speaker 6: There's a couple of old versions where she says and
Speaker 6: a rolling stone gathering.
Speaker 2: And curiosity will kill the kill the cat or a
Speaker 2: horse man climbing the stairs. No, my horse killing days
Speaker 2: are over because Red has taught me.
Speaker 7: So what do you think happened to the pony that
Speaker 7: threw Bonnie?
Speaker 2: By the way, Scarlet had away with it.
Speaker 1: That's gone, that has gone, that is that's been put
Speaker 1: in their rayer.
Speaker 2: Just quickly before we wrap up.
Speaker 1: Lee has a fascinating life, like she kind of made
Speaker 1: the two big films she made with the two oscars.
Speaker 2: She one was Gone with the Wind and Street made
Speaker 2: des I. She didn't have a as a.
Speaker 1: Massive a career as when you hear the name Vivian
Speaker 1: Lee that you think she only I think she even
Speaker 1: maybe made less than twenty films. She had quite a
Speaker 1: tragic kind of last She dated whilst she was Sir
Speaker 1: Lawrence Olivier was married. They started an affair and then
Speaker 1: they I think maybe Lee might have been married as well.
Speaker 1: Then they left their partners and they got together. She's
Speaker 1: kind of been kind of written up as to be honest,
Speaker 1: the term nyphomaniac comes up a lot like her and
Speaker 1: Lawrence Olivier would have it an on and off again
Speaker 1: relationship a lot.
Speaker 2: So she was she had other other lovers.
Speaker 1: But what the kind of the sad thing about the
Speaker 1: way I think she's been portrayed is we only probably
Speaker 1: realized more recently that she was bipolar.
Speaker 2: I see.
Speaker 1: So I just want to make that point if you
Speaker 1: if you're reading stuff about Vivian Lee on the surface,
Speaker 1: you may read you know a lot of affairs and
Speaker 1: all that. I think it's good to know for context.
Speaker 1: They believe looking back at various things about her behavior
Speaker 1: and who she was, that she was probably undiagnosed bi polar.
Speaker 2: Well.
Speaker 6: Also, she fought hard for the character in this as well.
Speaker 6: So you've got a female author writing a female character
Speaker 6: por trade obviously by a female actor, with a male
Speaker 6: director who said, I just see Scarlet as quote a
Speaker 6: cold bitch.
Speaker 7: That's right, that's how she needs to be played. And
Speaker 7: Vivian was trying to say, well there's other.
Speaker 2: Character.
Speaker 7: Yeah, yeah, And so they buttered heads over that quite
Speaker 7: a bit.
Speaker 2: I did well. I ended up warming to Scarlett.
Speaker 1: I guess I thought by the time we got to
Speaker 1: the end, her evolution would have maybe had her a
Speaker 1: little further down the path.
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, she would have learned more and maybe.
Speaker 1: Put that what she had learned from Melanie and from
Speaker 1: her own experience two use. And I I'm not sure
Speaker 1: if I felt that, Oh yeah, because most movies are
Speaker 1: about somebody a protagonist who wants something and then they
Speaker 1: may not get what they want, but they get what
Speaker 1: they need, and I'm just not sure if I saw Scar.
Speaker 2: O'Hara get what she needed. And I think for hours
Speaker 2: is a long time to sit through just.
Speaker 6: For someone to get some sort of redemption, Yes, especially
Speaker 6: when we've just lost the one redeeming character in Melanie
Speaker 6: right towards the end, and a horse the big one
Speaker 6: and the little one so and the last remaining chicken
Speaker 6: in the south apparently earlier.
Speaker 2: From Christmas Dinner.
Speaker 6: So yeah, But then that the iconic final shot of
Speaker 6: once again and her in silhouette looking over the plantation
Speaker 6: sunset behind her as she kind of looks forward to
Speaker 6: her future, And then that made me realize that's what
Speaker 6: they did. A sequel, and I remember, yes, Timothy Dalton, yeah, big.
Speaker 6: I don't know if it was made from whether there
Speaker 6: was a novel or whether they just went the film
Speaker 6: leaves does leave itself open to what happened next, and
Speaker 6: if her character's journey was I will once again rise
Speaker 6: up and bring myself back to where I was before,
Speaker 6: and I'll find you, Rep. Butler, and you go, well, yeah,
Speaker 6: did that ever happen? But there's a part of me
Speaker 6: that feels like there's no way that sequel could work,
Speaker 6: and I gather it didn't.
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, the fact that we don't even know what's
Speaker 2: called I think it's just called scarlet. Yes, yes, actually
Speaker 2: it is, yes, but I'll put.
Speaker 7: That down for next time.
Speaker 6: But you can see why. Yeah, this film, there's no
Speaker 6: way you can match it. Like on the it's scale
Speaker 6: everyone uses the bigger than Ben Her. This was only
Speaker 6: just under Ben Her for scale budget. What they put
Speaker 6: on screen, they're literally setting things on fire. It's it's incredible,
Speaker 6: and I think in that regard, I can see why
Speaker 6: it wins Best Picture. It always will be listed as
Speaker 6: one of the greatest of all time for what it
Speaker 6: is as a piece of cinema.
Speaker 2: Absolutely it deserves to be there, for sure.
Speaker 8: It was.
Speaker 6: And performances, characters aside, performances across the board just amazing.
Speaker 1: And Clark Gable gives that he always invented that leading
Speaker 1: man look at the furrow of the brow and the
Speaker 1: kind of the squinting of the eyes.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I was like, oh, that's too much, I
Speaker 2: can't but just when he invented that, he invented surmizing.
Speaker 2: He did absolutely mate.
Speaker 1: I always thank everybody into the podcast saying I'm aware
Speaker 1: that this podcast comes with homework, but you have gone
Speaker 1: above and beyond. Sampang should be ashamed of himself a
Speaker 1: choosing an eighty six minute movie in the castle, but
Speaker 1: obviously there are reasons why he needed to see that.
Speaker 1: But thank you so much that has been and.
Speaker 6: To you as well, because you know you too have
Speaker 6: to go through each of these every time as well
Speaker 6: I do.
Speaker 2: But I am glad this is a big one.
Speaker 1: It's an experience, but it's also good to say, as
Speaker 1: you know, as somebody who loves cinema, and I've always
Speaker 1: been slightly embarrassed, but now I can say I've seen
Speaker 1: Gone with the Wind, and I can tell what quotes
Speaker 1: if I'm Gone with the Wind and what quota of Casablanca.
Speaker 2: So I played against Sam No, thank you, mate, and
Speaker 2: we'll catch up again. I do give a damn.
Speaker 1: That was a lot of fun with my great mate
Speaker 1: Roving Matters talking about the epic Gone with the Wind.
Speaker 1: Hopefully we jammed a bit of fun in there amongst
Speaker 1: all the other stuff that needs to be spoken about
Speaker 1: when we are talking about such a film with a
Speaker 1: tricky content and subject matter. So I hope you enjoyed
Speaker 1: that as much as you could really a big thanks
Speaker 1: to Rowe for sitting down and watching a four hour
Speaker 1: movie that is above and beyond.
Speaker 2: Also quick thanks to Alex Tye at iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: We actually recorded this one in their studios this week
Speaker 1: just for availability, and I want to thank Alex for
Speaker 1: pressing the buttons. Also Derek from Casaways Studios for finalizing
Speaker 1: everything and getting it out there. Next week on the show,
Speaker 1: we go from a four hour movie to the shortest
Speaker 1: movie where I've done. I think it comes in even
Speaker 1: less than The Castle at about eighty four movies, an
Speaker 1: anamated classic for nineteen ninety five toy story. And then
Speaker 1: I'll be joined by a great made of mine, a
Speaker 1: New Zealand comic actor.
Speaker 2: You may have seen him on.
Speaker 1: How to Stay Married. He did a great episode with
Speaker 1: us there. He's on the New Zealand Project and he's
Speaker 1: in a new movie called How to Please a Woman.
Speaker 1: How to Please a Woman starring him self, starring Tasma Walton,
Speaker 1: Ross Hammond, Sally Phillips, plenty a great cast, and he'll
Speaker 1: be joining me next week. Josh Thompson a very FRIENNYSH.
Speaker 1: Thompson talking about the Pixar nine ninety five classic toy
Speaker 1: story to infinity and beyond, and so we leave old Pete,
Speaker 1: save fan soul, and to our friends of the radio audience,
Speaker 1: we've been a pleasant good night