1 00:00:00,280 --> 00:00:02,800 Speaker 1: What I found when I was trying to automate those 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: tasks that I was talking about in my old job. 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:07,720 Speaker 1: The first thing I did was like look up conferences 4 00:00:07,760 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: and people speaking about that exact issue, because I realized that, like, 5 00:00:11,360 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 1: if I'm seeing this as a total pain in my day, 6 00:00:14,320 --> 00:00:16,639 Speaker 1: that I'm spending way too much of my day doing this, 7 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,759 Speaker 1: someone else much smarter than me has already thought of 8 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:22,560 Speaker 1: that and has probably come up with solutions. So rather 9 00:00:22,640 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: than try to rebuild from scratch, I'm going to find 10 00:00:26,680 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: someone smarter out there who's already tackled this problem. So 11 00:00:30,080 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: I've never been afraid to kind of reach out to 12 00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 1: other people doing the similar job that I'm doing and 13 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: just quiz them, like, what do you do? 14 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,640 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 15 00:00:43,680 --> 00:00:46,000 Speaker 2: you used by the world's most successful people to get 16 00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:47,400 Speaker 2: so much out of their day. 17 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:49,839 Speaker 3: I'm your host, doctor Amantha Iver. 18 00:00:50,200 --> 00:00:55,040 Speaker 2: I'm an organizational psychologist, the founder of behavioral science consultancy Inventium, 19 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,600 Speaker 2: and I'm obsessed with finding ways to optimize my work day. 20 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,120 Speaker 2: Before we get to you today's show, I just want 21 00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:06,399 Speaker 2: to do a call out for listener questions, so as 22 00:01:06,400 --> 00:01:08,760 Speaker 2: you might have noticed if you're a regular listener of 23 00:01:08,959 --> 00:01:13,639 Speaker 2: How I Work, that I am now dedicating a few 24 00:01:13,840 --> 00:01:16,920 Speaker 2: episodes to answering questions that might be on your mind 25 00:01:16,959 --> 00:01:18,000 Speaker 2: about the world. 26 00:01:17,760 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 3: Of work and productivity. 27 00:01:19,400 --> 00:01:21,440 Speaker 2: So if anything's on your mind that you would like 28 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:26,479 Speaker 2: me to cover, please send it through to Amantha at 29 00:01:26,560 --> 00:01:29,319 Speaker 2: Inventium dot com dot au and my email is always 30 00:01:29,319 --> 00:01:30,959 Speaker 2: in the show notes as well. 31 00:01:32,040 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 4: So let's get onto today's guest. Who is Peter Wells. 32 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,440 Speaker 2: Now, if you've been listening to How I Work for 33 00:01:38,480 --> 00:01:41,800 Speaker 2: the last few weeks, you might recognize Peter from. 34 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:43,400 Speaker 3: The Meta podcast. 35 00:01:43,440 --> 00:01:46,280 Speaker 2: So Peter recently had me as a guest on one 36 00:01:46,319 --> 00:01:51,240 Speaker 2: of his podcasts, which is a podcast all about podcasters. 37 00:01:51,920 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 3: So I actually replayed that episode. 38 00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,240 Speaker 2: On How I Work, and I'm a big fan of 39 00:01:56,240 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 2: what Peter does with Meta. So when Peter is not 40 00:01:58,760 --> 00:02:03,040 Speaker 2: hosting that podcast, he is a technology journalist for the 41 00:02:03,080 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 2: Sydney Morning Herald and has been for many many years, 42 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:09,120 Speaker 2: where he writes about tech and podcasts, and he also 43 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:14,560 Speaker 2: now recently launched a daily tech podcast called The Help Desk, 44 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:16,560 Speaker 2: which is well worth checking out. 45 00:02:17,360 --> 00:02:20,639 Speaker 3: So I must say I'm a huge. 46 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: Fan of tech journalists because I feel like I'm in 47 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,400 Speaker 2: for a really geeky kind of chat, which I love. 48 00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:31,600 Speaker 3: And there were lots of great tips. 49 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:36,760 Speaker 2: That I got from Peter, especially around thinking about. 50 00:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,519 Speaker 3: Automating your job. 51 00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:43,040 Speaker 2: So Peter has a really interesting advice around this, which 52 00:02:43,080 --> 00:02:48,160 Speaker 2: actually inspired me to think about what more of my 53 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:52,800 Speaker 2: own job I could automate. So on that note, let's 54 00:02:52,880 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 2: head to Peter to hear about how he works. Peter, 55 00:02:56,440 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 2: welcome to the show. 56 00:02:58,000 --> 00:02:58,840 Speaker 5: Thank you for having me. 57 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:06,600 Speaker 2: We've been reviewing technology for many, many years, and I've 58 00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:09,320 Speaker 2: got to say I love talking to tech reporters because 59 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 2: I feel like they've got the best advice. So I 60 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:17,200 Speaker 2: want to know what your favorite gadgets that you've been 61 00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 2: using in twenty twenty. So no pressure, no pressure, and 62 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:24,440 Speaker 2: they don't have to have been released in twenty twenty. 63 00:03:24,480 --> 00:03:26,440 Speaker 2: That's the rules of the game, so just stuff that 64 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:26,880 Speaker 2: you're using. 65 00:03:27,160 --> 00:03:30,760 Speaker 1: I honestly think that the best bit of tech that's 66 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,360 Speaker 1: come out in the last couple of years has been 67 00:03:33,400 --> 00:03:37,000 Speaker 1: the Airpod's pro. So the original AirPods were great, but 68 00:03:37,600 --> 00:03:40,520 Speaker 1: the pro their magic. It blows my mind every time 69 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:44,200 Speaker 1: I put them in and turn on the little noise 70 00:03:44,240 --> 00:03:44,920 Speaker 1: canceling thing. 71 00:03:46,000 --> 00:03:48,240 Speaker 5: No, tiny, little earbuds that have no. 72 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,840 Speaker 1: Kind of seal around the ear should knock out the 73 00:03:50,920 --> 00:03:53,160 Speaker 1: sound of the world around you as well as they do. 74 00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:54,480 Speaker 5: And it just boggles my. 75 00:03:54,400 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 1: Mind every time you get really jaded after a certain 76 00:03:57,040 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: time as a tech reporter or a journalist, when you 77 00:04:00,520 --> 00:04:03,280 Speaker 1: get sent all of these things to play with and 78 00:04:03,760 --> 00:04:06,559 Speaker 1: you know, you have to sit through our long presentations 79 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,000 Speaker 1: about how this new gadget's going to change the world 80 00:04:09,040 --> 00:04:11,240 Speaker 1: and change how you see the world, and then you 81 00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 1: spend five minutes with it and go, eh, that's all right, 82 00:04:14,040 --> 00:04:17,239 Speaker 1: I guess. But for me, the Airpod's pro was still 83 00:04:17,279 --> 00:04:20,279 Speaker 1: that kind of like I don't know. I open them 84 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:22,000 Speaker 1: up and I'm like, wow, that's kind of magic. I 85 00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: don't know how they do that. 86 00:04:23,240 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 2: Is that fun? Just being sent free gadgets? I feel 87 00:04:28,200 --> 00:04:29,760 Speaker 2: like that would be living the dream. 88 00:04:30,080 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 5: Oh totally. 89 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,640 Speaker 1: Back when I was writing a weekly column tech column 90 00:04:33,680 --> 00:04:36,800 Speaker 1: for SMH, companies would actually just send me stuff without 91 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:39,480 Speaker 1: even telling me that they were going to so like 92 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,040 Speaker 1: I would just there was just this constant stream of 93 00:04:42,080 --> 00:04:45,760 Speaker 1: like brown boxes arriving on my doorstep and it was 94 00:04:45,760 --> 00:04:47,600 Speaker 1: like Christmas. Every day. I'm like, I wonder what's in this? 95 00:04:47,760 --> 00:04:50,599 Speaker 1: And yeah, so that was really really fun. I'm happy 96 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 1: for people to continue to do that. 97 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:54,520 Speaker 2: If you're listening, Oh my goodness, how do I get 98 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: a job as a tech reporter, Peter? You me? 99 00:04:59,279 --> 00:05:00,640 Speaker 5: It took a hell of long time. 100 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: Oh gosh, that tell me one other gud Because I've 101 00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:07,120 Speaker 2: got a pair of epop pros and I love them. 102 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:09,080 Speaker 2: But I feel like with my AirPods, and this is 103 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,239 Speaker 2: a running joke with my friends that I would speak 104 00:05:12,240 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 2: to quite regularly, that there's always just that moment of 105 00:05:15,600 --> 00:05:17,599 Speaker 2: hang on, hang on, wait, wait for the air pods 106 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:20,440 Speaker 2: to connect. How the AirPods aren't working? Oh, why aren't 107 00:05:20,440 --> 00:05:21,920 Speaker 2: they sinking? Let me call you back. 108 00:05:22,240 --> 00:05:23,680 Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I. 109 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:25,960 Speaker 2: Feel like there's that moment that would be my one 110 00:05:26,000 --> 00:05:30,599 Speaker 2: complaint with any like the air AirPods or the airpop pros. 111 00:05:31,040 --> 00:05:32,799 Speaker 5: I find Oh no, totally. 112 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:35,680 Speaker 1: And so I mean, I don't make a hell of 113 00:05:35,680 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: a lot of phone calls these days, so I never did. 114 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:41,520 Speaker 5: I guess I'm much more of a text and a 115 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:42,640 Speaker 5: chat kind of person. 116 00:05:43,360 --> 00:05:46,080 Speaker 1: But yeah, when I was at work, when I had 117 00:05:46,279 --> 00:05:48,560 Speaker 1: like the full time desk job, I would always just 118 00:05:48,600 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 1: have one of the earbuds in the whole time, so 119 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: that I'd never had that issue of waiting. 120 00:05:55,160 --> 00:05:57,200 Speaker 2: That's a great idea. I like that, And then the 121 00:05:57,240 --> 00:06:00,480 Speaker 2: other one can be charging and then you can swap 122 00:06:00,520 --> 00:06:02,080 Speaker 2: it out and you. 123 00:06:02,000 --> 00:06:03,640 Speaker 5: Can still hear everyone in the office. 124 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:05,920 Speaker 1: And yeah, yeah, it's just a nice way of kind 125 00:06:05,960 --> 00:06:08,440 Speaker 1: of keeping involved but also having just background noise. 126 00:06:08,480 --> 00:06:12,280 Speaker 2: And yeah, tell me some other gadgets that you're a 127 00:06:12,320 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 2: fan of. 128 00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,600 Speaker 1: I think anything that helps me get through my day 129 00:06:15,600 --> 00:06:18,600 Speaker 1: a little bit more is always something that I love, 130 00:06:18,640 --> 00:06:18,960 Speaker 1: and me. 131 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:19,800 Speaker 5: I really love. 132 00:06:20,080 --> 00:06:23,920 Speaker 1: I've got a house full of Google Assistant devices, and 133 00:06:24,080 --> 00:06:27,160 Speaker 1: you know, some of my friends are use Alexa instead. 134 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,720 Speaker 5: I really like Google's interface. 135 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: I've got one of the screen ones sitting in on 136 00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:36,320 Speaker 1: my kitchen bench, and you know, when I'm making dinner 137 00:06:36,320 --> 00:06:39,520 Speaker 1: for myself and it's just showing photos of my kids 138 00:06:39,600 --> 00:06:42,360 Speaker 1: go by. And then in the morning, I start every 139 00:06:42,360 --> 00:06:44,560 Speaker 1: morning by kind of making a cup of coffee and 140 00:06:44,600 --> 00:06:47,840 Speaker 1: just saying good morning to the device. And by the way, 141 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,760 Speaker 1: always thank you for digital assistants, because when the robots 142 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:53,360 Speaker 1: rise up against us, they'll remember the ones who say 143 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:56,560 Speaker 1: thank you. And it's just also nice to do in 144 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: front of your kids. But anyway, when I'm making my coffee, 145 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:04,360 Speaker 1: I say, you know, good morning, Assistant, and it will 146 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,320 Speaker 1: tell me what's on my calendar for the day, It'll 147 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:09,680 Speaker 1: tell me what the weather's going to be, and then 148 00:07:09,720 --> 00:07:12,720 Speaker 1: it plays a couple of those daily short podcasts for me, 149 00:07:13,480 --> 00:07:15,320 Speaker 1: and it's just a really nice routine to kind of 150 00:07:15,320 --> 00:07:19,400 Speaker 1: start the day, and that in itself is worth the price. 151 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:21,480 Speaker 5: I think it was about two hundred bucks. 152 00:07:21,200 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: For the Google Home Hub is the one I use, 153 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 1: but yeah, Amazon has a similar version if you prefer them. 154 00:07:28,640 --> 00:07:31,320 Speaker 1: It's when technology can kind of step in and fill 155 00:07:31,360 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 1: the gaps because my brain is always mushed most of 156 00:07:33,960 --> 00:07:36,520 Speaker 1: the time and I have seven hundred things to try 157 00:07:36,520 --> 00:07:40,280 Speaker 1: to remember. So anything I can offload to a gadget 158 00:07:40,360 --> 00:07:43,240 Speaker 1: or a device and then know that it's there and 159 00:07:43,280 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm going to be able to remember it later. 160 00:07:45,600 --> 00:07:46,840 Speaker 5: They're the gadgets I really. 161 00:07:46,680 --> 00:07:50,520 Speaker 2: Love so with the Google Assistant because I actually I 162 00:07:50,640 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 2: was given one for my birthday, which was a couple 163 00:07:54,320 --> 00:07:58,200 Speaker 2: of months ago, and I feel like the person that 164 00:07:58,240 --> 00:08:00,480 Speaker 2: gave it to me is often giving me tips on 165 00:08:00,520 --> 00:08:02,600 Speaker 2: what to do, but I just wouldn't have known how 166 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:04,760 Speaker 2: to get the most out of it. Like even this morning, 167 00:08:04,960 --> 00:08:08,840 Speaker 2: I was given the tip say to your Google Assistant, 168 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:13,720 Speaker 2: Hey Google, good morning, And then it told me all 169 00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,000 Speaker 2: this stuff that was quite helpful. It told me about 170 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,960 Speaker 2: the weather, it told me some news headlines. It started 171 00:08:20,280 --> 00:08:23,760 Speaker 2: playing something which I switched off pretty soon after. But 172 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:25,960 Speaker 2: it's like, I had no idea it could do that, 173 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 2: or that I would even enjoy that, and I did. 174 00:08:28,640 --> 00:08:30,440 Speaker 2: What do you find are some of the things that 175 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,680 Speaker 2: you use it for that improve your life even a 176 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 2: little bit? 177 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 1: Absolutely, those kind of routines and so that they're all 178 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:42,199 Speaker 1: found under routines within the Google Home app on iOS 179 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 1: or Android, So pop on in there. You'll find a 180 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,960 Speaker 1: bunch of stuff that you may not have thought about. 181 00:08:47,000 --> 00:08:52,240 Speaker 1: And discoverability of features is always a trick when it 182 00:08:52,240 --> 00:08:55,400 Speaker 1: comes to software. It's something that all of my friends 183 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,480 Speaker 1: who developed software for a living, it's the hardest thing 184 00:08:59,520 --> 00:09:02,680 Speaker 1: for them to to figure out how to present some 185 00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: of the cool stuff there apps too, because you don't 186 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:07,720 Speaker 1: want to like throw a whole bunch of did you 187 00:09:07,760 --> 00:09:10,480 Speaker 1: know this when you first launch an app, because most 188 00:09:10,480 --> 00:09:12,680 Speaker 1: people will just swipe through it because they want to 189 00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,920 Speaker 1: get to the app. So yeah, it's really hard to 190 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:17,480 Speaker 1: figure that kind of stuff out. But yeah, routines is 191 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:20,000 Speaker 1: what Google calls them. So for me, I've got a 192 00:09:20,040 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 1: bunch of different routines. I've got too many smart lights. 193 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:27,600 Speaker 1: I don't necessarily think they're a great purchase, but I 194 00:09:27,640 --> 00:09:29,719 Speaker 1: got sucked in and I'm a nerd, so I've got 195 00:09:29,720 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 1: a houseful of smart lights. Anyway, I can say TV 196 00:09:33,600 --> 00:09:36,480 Speaker 1: time to any of the little speakers around the house 197 00:09:37,360 --> 00:09:39,960 Speaker 1: and it will dim all of the lights except one 198 00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,360 Speaker 1: that's kind of behind the TV, and that one behind 199 00:09:43,360 --> 00:09:46,640 Speaker 1: the TV starts to glow purple, which just creates a 200 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:49,959 Speaker 1: really nice environment to watch movies and things like that. So, 201 00:09:50,360 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 1: and my daughter loves saying that. Actually, she's a big 202 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: fan of that. If I say goodbye as I'm leaving 203 00:09:55,480 --> 00:09:58,280 Speaker 1: the house, it turns off all the lights and turns 204 00:09:58,320 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: on the security camera outside. So yeah, just play around 205 00:10:02,000 --> 00:10:03,320 Speaker 1: with routine, see what you can find. 206 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:06,360 Speaker 2: Okay, I'm still going to do that. I'm excited. I 207 00:10:06,440 --> 00:10:10,280 Speaker 2: like the sound of your TV light setup. That's really cool. Yeah. 208 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 2: I haven't gone down the smart lights route, yet, but 209 00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:18,160 Speaker 2: maybe one day. How about software, Like, aside from the 210 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:23,839 Speaker 2: usual suspects, what do you find software or apps that 211 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:28,520 Speaker 2: help you work better and look help in any aspects 212 00:10:28,559 --> 00:10:29,280 Speaker 2: of life? Really? 213 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm going to say, actually, when we were chatting 214 00:10:33,840 --> 00:10:35,920 Speaker 1: last week, you mentioned to ever note and it was 215 00:10:35,960 --> 00:10:38,240 Speaker 1: almost like you mentioned a friend who had passed away, 216 00:10:38,400 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 1: like it was so sad to hear because I've just 217 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:43,600 Speaker 1: started a brand new business. 218 00:10:43,880 --> 00:10:45,720 Speaker 5: What I've found in the past is. 219 00:10:47,160 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 1: Humans always underestimate how long it takes to do anything, 220 00:10:50,840 --> 00:10:55,760 Speaker 1: and I'm especially guilty of that. And so whenever I've 221 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 1: changed roles, I've found that rescue time. 222 00:10:59,080 --> 00:10:59,880 Speaker 5: Are you familiar with that? 223 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,640 Speaker 2: I am familiar with rescue time, but I imagine a 224 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 2: lot of listeners are not so rescue time time tracking software, 225 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:09,560 Speaker 2: but can you maybe go into a bit of detailer 226 00:11:09,720 --> 00:11:13,040 Speaker 2: and also around like what makes it different as well 227 00:11:13,040 --> 00:11:14,520 Speaker 2: from other options out there. 228 00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 5: Yeah, so rescue Time. 229 00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:18,079 Speaker 1: Why I really like it is, first of all, the 230 00:11:18,360 --> 00:11:21,520 Speaker 1: free tier is pretty much good enough for most people. 231 00:11:22,160 --> 00:11:23,720 Speaker 1: Unless you're in a team and you really want to 232 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:28,360 Speaker 1: understand where everyone is working, then rescue the free tier 233 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:30,520 Speaker 1: of rescue time is absolutely fine. 234 00:11:30,600 --> 00:11:32,400 Speaker 5: And I've used it over the years. 235 00:11:32,559 --> 00:11:35,200 Speaker 1: I've never really kind of stuck with it, but whenever 236 00:11:35,240 --> 00:11:38,400 Speaker 1: I transition into a new role, I always started up 237 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 1: because I always realized that whatever I'm trying to do 238 00:11:41,559 --> 00:11:45,000 Speaker 1: takes way longer or maybe even shorter sometimes but rarely 239 00:11:45,679 --> 00:11:47,720 Speaker 1: than I expect. And so what I love about Rescue 240 00:11:47,720 --> 00:11:49,760 Speaker 1: Time it's just a very simple app that lives in 241 00:11:49,800 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 1: the menu bar of your Mac or your PC, and 242 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,400 Speaker 1: just all it does is just quietly, silently track what 243 00:11:56,440 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: you're spending your time in, and it does it in. 244 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:05,040 Speaker 5: A really good way. I trust the privacy of this service. 245 00:12:05,080 --> 00:12:08,960 Speaker 1: It's been around forever, and you know, there are certain 246 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:12,160 Speaker 1: apps that could do the same kind of time tracking 247 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:16,160 Speaker 1: that I'd feel less comfortable giving it access to see 248 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,280 Speaker 1: where I was, what I was doing on my computer 249 00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:21,920 Speaker 1: all day, whereas, yeah, risky your time. I've really trusted 250 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:24,600 Speaker 1: over the years. I think they're good people behind it. 251 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:27,600 Speaker 1: So the great thing about it is it's just really simple. 252 00:12:27,640 --> 00:12:31,079 Speaker 1: It doesn't intrude, It doesn't make you have to remember 253 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:33,160 Speaker 1: to set a time or I don't have to think 254 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 1: about it. It just sits there and records in the background. 255 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:38,200 Speaker 1: So you know, at the end of the day, when 256 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,760 Speaker 1: I was looking at how long it took me, for instance, 257 00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:44,040 Speaker 1: to edit a podcast, which is a new task that 258 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: I'm doing that I haven't done for a very long time. 259 00:12:46,720 --> 00:12:48,880 Speaker 1: First of all, it's been great to see how much 260 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:51,319 Speaker 1: faster I'm getting day by day. But also if you 261 00:12:51,360 --> 00:12:52,440 Speaker 1: get to the end of the day and you've got 262 00:12:52,440 --> 00:12:55,920 Speaker 1: twenty things on your to do list and you're disappointed 263 00:12:55,960 --> 00:12:58,600 Speaker 1: that you only knocked off three or four of them, 264 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:03,520 Speaker 1: that can create a real sense of anxiety for me, 265 00:13:03,559 --> 00:13:06,920 Speaker 1: at least when if I can look back and go, well, 266 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:11,480 Speaker 1: hang on a second. According to Rescue Time, seven hours today, 267 00:13:11,640 --> 00:13:15,040 Speaker 1: I was super productive and I was bouncing around between 268 00:13:15,080 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 1: email and logic, and that sounds to me like I 269 00:13:19,120 --> 00:13:22,200 Speaker 1: had a fairly busy day. So I'm going to give 270 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,160 Speaker 1: myself a pass for not ticking off all of the 271 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,839 Speaker 1: items of my to do list, and maybe tomorrow I'll 272 00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: write a more realistic to do list based on how 273 00:13:31,720 --> 00:13:34,960 Speaker 1: long it actually takes me to accomplish these tasks. 274 00:13:35,880 --> 00:13:38,960 Speaker 2: That's really interesting using it to give you feedback and 275 00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 2: help you become more accurate in estimating how long a 276 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 2: task takes. I yeah, I've never thought about using time 277 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:49,440 Speaker 2: tracking software that way. I did go through a Rescue 278 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:53,360 Speaker 2: time stage, I want to say, maybe six months ago. 279 00:13:53,440 --> 00:13:56,960 Speaker 2: I would like just running some experiments at Inventium around 280 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,720 Speaker 2: time tracking, and I think I've never found a time 281 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: tracking system that I've firstly got a lot of value 282 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,480 Speaker 2: out of and therefore like it hasn't changed my behavior 283 00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,439 Speaker 2: or And look, I do agree with you. Rescue time 284 00:14:11,520 --> 00:14:13,680 Speaker 2: is good because it does work in the background, so 285 00:14:13,679 --> 00:14:16,120 Speaker 2: it's relatively straightforward. But yeah, I feel like I haven't 286 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,200 Speaker 2: cracked that for myself yet, although I know that a 287 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 2: lot of guests that I've had on the show have 288 00:14:21,280 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 2: used time tracking in some way to gain insight. But 289 00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:28,040 Speaker 2: I like what you're saying there in terms of it 290 00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:31,000 Speaker 2: is good for just reminding you that even if you 291 00:14:31,040 --> 00:14:33,600 Speaker 2: don't feel like you've gotten through everything you wanted to do, 292 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:37,200 Speaker 2: it's still actually been a good and productive and valuable day. 293 00:14:37,640 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: And I think, especially when everyone is working from home, 294 00:14:40,600 --> 00:14:42,520 Speaker 1: you might not have the same kind of feedback that 295 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,040 Speaker 1: you would normally get in an office environment. I think 296 00:14:46,040 --> 00:14:48,440 Speaker 1: a lot of people are struggling to get through the 297 00:14:48,520 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: day and wonder did. 298 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 5: They actually accomplish anything? You know. It feels like that's. 299 00:14:54,360 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: Been a big concern for some of the friends I have. Yeah, 300 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:01,360 Speaker 1: just during these kind of isolation lockdown months of you know, 301 00:15:01,440 --> 00:15:02,880 Speaker 1: did I really accomplish a lot? 302 00:15:02,960 --> 00:15:04,440 Speaker 5: Do I get? You know? 303 00:15:04,720 --> 00:15:07,480 Speaker 1: How much more effective am I when say the kids 304 00:15:07,560 --> 00:15:11,200 Speaker 1: aren't at daycare versus when they are, Like, these are 305 00:15:11,240 --> 00:15:13,800 Speaker 1: really fascinating things for me to at least track so 306 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,440 Speaker 1: that I can then look forward and figure out, well, 307 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,720 Speaker 1: you know, my daughter's going to be home that day, realistically, 308 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:22,640 Speaker 1: what can I get done. The other way I used 309 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,800 Speaker 1: it actually was when I first started out as a 310 00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: macadmin at a university. Again, it was a job i'd 311 00:15:29,080 --> 00:15:33,520 Speaker 1: never done before. I understood kind of what was behind 312 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:35,560 Speaker 1: the job and like what the main tenants of the 313 00:15:35,640 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: job were, but I'd never done it, so I didn't 314 00:15:37,960 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: really know how long how long each task would take, 315 00:15:40,640 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: and so that's why I started to use rescue time. 316 00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,720 Speaker 1: But what I ended up finding was eighty percent of 317 00:15:45,760 --> 00:15:48,920 Speaker 1: my week was going to packaging apps, which is a 318 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,160 Speaker 1: boring thing and I won't go into it, but so 319 00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: like I just realized, like that is such a massive 320 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:58,600 Speaker 1: chunk of the week, and because of that, I thought, well, 321 00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:01,160 Speaker 1: that is something I need to learn how to automate. 322 00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:02,640 Speaker 5: And you know, I. 323 00:16:03,040 --> 00:16:06,880 Speaker 1: Gave myself, you know, a couple of weeks to not 324 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:09,600 Speaker 1: package anything, to give myself that eighty percent of the 325 00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:14,280 Speaker 1: time back and figure out a way to automate that task. 326 00:16:14,880 --> 00:16:18,120 Speaker 1: And you know, three weeks of hard work figuring out 327 00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,040 Speaker 1: how to automate it, I was able to do that, 328 00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:23,400 Speaker 1: and then suddenly I had eighty percent of my week 329 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:27,240 Speaker 1: freed up to do more interesting stuff and to yeah, 330 00:16:27,320 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: to look at all the other sections of the job. 331 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:31,720 Speaker 5: So for rescue time, I think that was the moment 332 00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,800 Speaker 5: where I really really. 333 00:16:33,640 --> 00:16:35,720 Speaker 1: Fell in love with that app because it was like, Okay, 334 00:16:35,760 --> 00:16:37,920 Speaker 1: you've actually given me eighty percent of my week back 335 00:16:38,920 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: for the rest of my time in this role. 336 00:16:41,880 --> 00:16:43,800 Speaker 5: So yeah, that was incredibly valuable. 337 00:16:44,320 --> 00:16:46,640 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's amazing. I want to come back to automation, 338 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,680 Speaker 2: But first, what other software are you finding really helpful? 339 00:16:49,920 --> 00:16:53,240 Speaker 5: I guess the one thing I would mention is if 340 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 5: this then that, which is. 341 00:16:57,040 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 1: Software that kind of pulls together like it it runs 342 00:17:00,640 --> 00:17:02,760 Speaker 1: in the background to kind of try to pull off 343 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:06,080 Speaker 1: that ever note idea of like the one spot to 344 00:17:06,119 --> 00:17:08,919 Speaker 1: look for. Basically you can set up if this then that, 345 00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:12,840 Speaker 1: And there's a couple of other similar software out there. 346 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,040 Speaker 1: Is that like ZPR Yeah, zebiers is is the kind 347 00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:19,080 Speaker 1: of the more polished version. 348 00:17:19,119 --> 00:17:19,400 Speaker 5: I guess. 349 00:17:19,440 --> 00:17:21,919 Speaker 1: So I've just been using this then that for so 350 00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,760 Speaker 1: long that that's where all my little formulas are so 351 00:17:25,800 --> 00:17:28,680 Speaker 1: for instance, going back to Rescue Time each evening, where 352 00:17:28,680 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: Rescue Time will send my report to Google Calendar, so 353 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:34,600 Speaker 1: I can. 354 00:17:34,480 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 5: See how I did that day. 355 00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,280 Speaker 1: And if I create something in to dost as you know, 356 00:17:40,480 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: this is a task that I need to do today, 357 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:46,320 Speaker 1: then it will pop that into my Google calendar as 358 00:17:46,359 --> 00:17:48,960 Speaker 1: a thirty minute chunk somewhere. But yeah, yeah, so little 359 00:17:49,000 --> 00:17:52,480 Speaker 1: things like that. So again it's it's automation. Really, it's 360 00:17:52,560 --> 00:17:54,760 Speaker 1: that same idea of like, I don't want to have 361 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: to do the you know, input the same data into 362 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,920 Speaker 1: multiple apps. I don't want to have to remind myself 363 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:06,840 Speaker 1: to track certain things, and so instead my to do 364 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:10,240 Speaker 1: list is talking to my calendar, My calendar is talking 365 00:18:10,240 --> 00:18:13,800 Speaker 1: to rescue time, Rescue Time is talking to whatever, and 366 00:18:14,359 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 1: so yeah, all of these things are kind of working 367 00:18:16,160 --> 00:18:17,800 Speaker 1: in the background so I don't have to think about it. 368 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 2: That's really cool. And so for listeners that maybe haven't 369 00:18:22,000 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 2: done much in the way of automation or haven't used 370 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,400 Speaker 2: Zapier or Zapier, is it zaper or Zapier, I. 371 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:29,720 Speaker 5: Have no idea. I think it's no idea. 372 00:18:30,040 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 2: Yeah, I call it Zapier. But if they haven't used 373 00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:40,119 Speaker 2: like software that essentially helps one application talk to another application. 374 00:18:40,359 --> 00:18:43,320 Speaker 2: How should people be thinking about this in terms of 375 00:18:44,080 --> 00:18:47,800 Speaker 2: automating some of the tasks and I guess regular things 376 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,120 Speaker 2: that they have to do. 377 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:51,879 Speaker 1: I guess the first thing I would say is don't 378 00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 1: over complicate things. I even though I've been using this 379 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,639 Speaker 1: and that for almost a decade, I would imagine I 380 00:18:58,680 --> 00:19:01,160 Speaker 1: only have like a couple of rules because you don't 381 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,800 Speaker 1: want to create an endless loop between applications. 382 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:06,679 Speaker 5: So just think of, like, what is the one. 383 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,800 Speaker 1: Or two things that you would love to see happening 384 00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: in whatever it is, whether it be to say, if 385 00:19:13,320 --> 00:19:16,120 Speaker 1: you want to see your to do items as all 386 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:19,720 Speaker 1: day events in your calendar, then combine those two services 387 00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,919 Speaker 1: and see. 388 00:19:21,640 --> 00:19:22,439 Speaker 5: If that works for you. 389 00:19:22,920 --> 00:19:26,199 Speaker 1: In terms of automation, though I would say more of 390 00:19:27,080 --> 00:19:29,359 Speaker 1: it's not just like software like if this then that, 391 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,160 Speaker 1: or like I don't want to get too nerdy here, 392 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:32,480 Speaker 1: even though obviously. 393 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:33,359 Speaker 3: No please get nerdy. 394 00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: Well, I just think that, like, no matter what the 395 00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:40,560 Speaker 1: role you're doing is, whether you're working as an academic, 396 00:19:40,880 --> 00:19:43,600 Speaker 1: you know, I previously worked at a university as tech support, 397 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:48,760 Speaker 1: and a lot of my day was trying to help 398 00:19:48,840 --> 00:19:53,320 Speaker 1: people automate their tasks and not using specific software, but 399 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: just like saying, okay. 400 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:56,280 Speaker 5: You need you know, if you. 401 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:01,119 Speaker 1: Need to prep for a lecture that you're get, what 402 00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: are the things that you need to do all the 403 00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,879 Speaker 1: time that you can just put into a bucket like 404 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: whatever it is, whether it's just a note, tapp or 405 00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,360 Speaker 1: a whatever, that you've got a list that you can 406 00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:13,399 Speaker 1: just always refer back to, so you never have to 407 00:20:13,440 --> 00:20:16,760 Speaker 1: have that mental energy of going through these tasks that. 408 00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,439 Speaker 5: You do every day. And so that's what I'd be 409 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 5: looking for. 410 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:23,119 Speaker 1: The other thing I would say, actually, and this is 411 00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:26,560 Speaker 1: probably not the answer you would expect from it like 412 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,639 Speaker 1: a nerdy person, But what I found when I was 413 00:20:29,680 --> 00:20:32,280 Speaker 1: trying to automate those tasks that I was talking about 414 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,560 Speaker 1: in my old job, the first thing I did was 415 00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:37,920 Speaker 1: like look up conferences and people speaking about that exact issue, 416 00:20:37,920 --> 00:20:40,280 Speaker 1: because I realized that, like, if I'm seeing this as 417 00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:43,120 Speaker 1: a total pain in my day, that I'm spending way 418 00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,080 Speaker 1: too much of my day doing this, someone else much 419 00:20:46,080 --> 00:20:48,560 Speaker 1: smarter than me has already thought of that and has 420 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: probably come up with solutions. So rather than try to 421 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,760 Speaker 1: rebuild from scratch, I'm going to find someone smarter out 422 00:20:55,800 --> 00:20:58,959 Speaker 1: there who's already tackled this problem. And that's where I 423 00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:01,520 Speaker 1: was able to find a whole bunch of resources on 424 00:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,440 Speaker 1: how to automate my day whatever your role is, whatever 425 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:07,919 Speaker 1: your day to day role is, go to YouTube and 426 00:21:07,960 --> 00:21:12,720 Speaker 1: look for previous conferences of your area and see if 427 00:21:12,760 --> 00:21:14,560 Speaker 1: someone else has kind of come up with that. For me, 428 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:17,399 Speaker 1: because I was working in a very nerdy area, you know, 429 00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,160 Speaker 1: GitHub was a great great resource there of so, GitHub, 430 00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:24,679 Speaker 1: if you don't know, is a website where people share 431 00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:29,000 Speaker 1: programming knowledge and skills and scripts that they've written. And 432 00:21:29,080 --> 00:21:31,720 Speaker 1: so I was able to find computer programs out there 433 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:34,560 Speaker 1: that were doing like eighty percent of what I wanted 434 00:21:34,560 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: them to do. And I guess being a journalist and 435 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,440 Speaker 1: on the one hand really helped in this that I 436 00:21:40,480 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 1: was never embarrassed to just like I find out what 437 00:21:45,080 --> 00:21:47,720 Speaker 1: their contact details were, and I'd just email them and say, hey, 438 00:21:47,880 --> 00:21:49,480 Speaker 1: I saw this thing that you did, and it's so 439 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: cool and it's so close to what I want, but 440 00:21:51,960 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 1: I would love it if it just did this as well. 441 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:55,800 Speaker 1: I have no idea how to make that happen, though, 442 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,639 Speaker 1: but wouldn't that be cool? And a lot of the 443 00:21:57,640 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 1: time they just replied back. I Oh yeah, I didn't 444 00:21:59,359 --> 00:21:59,639 Speaker 1: think of that. 445 00:21:59,560 --> 00:22:00,680 Speaker 5: That actually be cool. 446 00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,760 Speaker 1: Here's how you do it, and between the pair of us, 447 00:22:03,760 --> 00:22:07,119 Speaker 1: we would come up with this new system that would 448 00:22:07,440 --> 00:22:10,439 Speaker 1: make both our lives easier. So I've never been afraid 449 00:22:10,440 --> 00:22:12,560 Speaker 1: to kind of reach out to other people doing the 450 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: similar job that I'm doing and just quiz them and like, 451 00:22:15,400 --> 00:22:17,639 Speaker 1: what do you do? How do you use the you know, 452 00:22:17,720 --> 00:22:20,879 Speaker 1: before we started recording, we were chatting about how we 453 00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:24,200 Speaker 1: do backup audio recording. The amount of times I've sent 454 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,520 Speaker 1: my little screenshot of like, here's how I back up 455 00:22:27,560 --> 00:22:29,600 Speaker 1: the audio that I'm recording so I never lose it 456 00:22:30,480 --> 00:22:33,679 Speaker 1: to other podcasters out there, because I know what a 457 00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: pain it is. 458 00:22:34,440 --> 00:22:36,520 Speaker 5: I know how awful it is to lose audio, and. 459 00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:39,040 Speaker 1: So if I can share that and make someone's life 460 00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:40,919 Speaker 1: a little bit easier than I'm more than happy to. 461 00:22:41,680 --> 00:22:43,919 Speaker 2: That's cool. And I like the idea of just googling 462 00:22:43,960 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 2: how can I automate X? You know, whatever X is. 463 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:51,040 Speaker 2: I reckon, I'm actually going to do that for a 464 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 2: few things in my life. I do want to talk 465 00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:56,639 Speaker 2: about podcasting, and I am curious as to how you 466 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,000 Speaker 2: approach your podcast behind the scenes. So at the moment 467 00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:04,240 Speaker 2: and You've got a podcast called Meta, which is an 468 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:08,159 Speaker 2: interview style podcast where you talk to quite high profile 469 00:23:08,240 --> 00:23:12,720 Speaker 2: podcasters about podcasting, and that is how we originally connected. 470 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 2: And you've also recently launched a daily podcast to help 471 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,400 Speaker 2: desk And I want to know how are you thinking, 472 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:25,359 Speaker 2: like particularly with the daily podcast, Like what processes have 473 00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:28,320 Speaker 2: you got or like, you know, do you use batching 474 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,360 Speaker 2: for any task? Because I must say, like, even though 475 00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,840 Speaker 2: the irony is like I host a podcast How I Work, 476 00:23:33,880 --> 00:23:36,919 Speaker 2: which is all about productivity and being more efficient and 477 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:39,159 Speaker 2: optimizing your day and stuff, but I do feel a 478 00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,879 Speaker 2: bit disorganized around my processes with How I Work, Like 479 00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:47,080 Speaker 2: I don't batch where I should batch. I delegate some things, 480 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 2: but not enough. I'm currently thinking about, oh do I 481 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 2: actually get a producer to offload a lot of other 482 00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:59,960 Speaker 2: tasks that I'm doing, particularly now after starting a second podcast, 483 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 2: how to Date. So what can you teach me? How 484 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,080 Speaker 2: can you help me make my podcast world better? 485 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 3: Yeah? 486 00:24:08,359 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 5: Look, it's a tricky one. 487 00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: If you've never recorded a podcast before, you may not 488 00:24:14,440 --> 00:24:17,760 Speaker 1: understand just how much time and effort goes into it. Like, 489 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,200 Speaker 1: you know, I guess that forty minute show that you're 490 00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:24,000 Speaker 1: listening to probably has about three or four hours of 491 00:24:24,040 --> 00:24:28,000 Speaker 1: prep before it and maybe two three hours of post 492 00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:32,600 Speaker 1: production after it, and so yeah, so again I made 493 00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:35,840 Speaker 1: sure that I factored all of that in and before 494 00:24:35,880 --> 00:24:39,919 Speaker 1: I started the Daily Show, I emailed the squeaz Do, 495 00:24:40,000 --> 00:24:43,680 Speaker 1: a fantastic daily news podcast. I listened to a whole 496 00:24:43,720 --> 00:24:46,639 Speaker 1: bunch of different daily podcasts and kind of got an 497 00:24:46,720 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 1: idea of what works and what does and in terms 498 00:24:49,119 --> 00:24:51,520 Speaker 1: of structure, and then yeah, I just emailed a bunch 499 00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:54,840 Speaker 1: of them, like I emailed The Squeeze, emailed Corona Cast. 500 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:57,400 Speaker 1: I emailed the hosts of seven Am and just said, 501 00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:01,199 Speaker 1: am I insane for thinking of studying is by myself 502 00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:04,040 Speaker 1: without any kind of production behind it? 503 00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:06,320 Speaker 2: And what did they say? Did they say, yes, you 504 00:25:06,400 --> 00:25:07,199 Speaker 2: are insane? 505 00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,640 Speaker 1: Some did, some did, but no, no, I mean the Squeeze. 506 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 1: One of the reasons I keep mentioning them is that 507 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: they were super supportive and just said, look, you know, 508 00:25:15,600 --> 00:25:18,439 Speaker 1: the first couple of weeks will absolutely kill you, but 509 00:25:19,240 --> 00:25:21,480 Speaker 1: once you get past that, you'll be okay. And so 510 00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:25,560 Speaker 1: because of that, I made sure that we started actually 511 00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,880 Speaker 1: rehearsing the Daily Show about three weeks before we went 512 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:33,200 Speaker 1: live with it. And so we weren't doing it every day, 513 00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 1: but three times a week. We just I'd write up 514 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,040 Speaker 1: the show notes as if it was going to be 515 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:42,000 Speaker 1: a published show. We'd sit down, we'd record, and then 516 00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 1: I'd edit it as if it was going to go out, 517 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,280 Speaker 1: and just so again so I could have an understanding 518 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:50,440 Speaker 1: before we went live of how long is this actually 519 00:25:50,520 --> 00:25:51,000 Speaker 1: going to take? 520 00:25:51,040 --> 00:25:51,119 Speaker 2: Me? 521 00:25:51,320 --> 00:25:52,600 Speaker 5: Can I fit this into my day? 522 00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:54,879 Speaker 1: And so yeah, So it really was a lot of 523 00:25:55,359 --> 00:25:57,960 Speaker 1: I guess pre production a lot more than say Meta, 524 00:25:58,040 --> 00:26:01,000 Speaker 1: which I felt more comfortable with because it was more 525 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:02,639 Speaker 1: of a spin off of the column that I was 526 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:05,240 Speaker 1: already writing for SMH. So it just felt like a 527 00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: value add to the SMH column as opposed to the 528 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,639 Speaker 1: help disc which was its own giant thing. 529 00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:17,879 Speaker 2: With Meta, like you've had some great guests on Meta, 530 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:23,679 Speaker 2: How do you decide which podcasts to cover? How do 531 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 2: you discover new podcasts? 532 00:26:27,400 --> 00:26:29,159 Speaker 1: A lot of the way I discover them is opening 533 00:26:29,200 --> 00:26:32,159 Speaker 1: my email and seeing pictures. I get a lot of 534 00:26:32,160 --> 00:26:35,280 Speaker 1: pictures each week of there are so many new podcasts 535 00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:38,560 Speaker 1: coming out, and I wish just stop doing the interview 536 00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:40,840 Speaker 1: one for a while, let me matter find its audience, 537 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,639 Speaker 1: and then you can go back to you some the 538 00:26:44,680 --> 00:26:46,520 Speaker 1: amount of times I open on my email and it's like, oh, 539 00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:47,680 Speaker 1: that person from that. 540 00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:50,560 Speaker 5: Radio show has launched a brand new show just. 541 00:26:50,480 --> 00:26:56,719 Speaker 1: Like yours anyway, but yees. So for me, I mean, 542 00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,680 Speaker 1: I do love podcasts. That's that's why I make the show. 543 00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,200 Speaker 1: That's why I wrote the column to begin with, and 544 00:27:03,680 --> 00:27:06,240 Speaker 1: so I am always excited to find a new show 545 00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:09,760 Speaker 1: that I love, so a lot of the time it's 546 00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:12,040 Speaker 1: recommendations from friends things like that. 547 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:16,320 Speaker 5: In terms of how I. 548 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,879 Speaker 1: Structure the show, it's the same way I structured the column, 549 00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:21,840 Speaker 1: which was when I first started, I had no idea 550 00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: what I was doing, and then finally I just hit 551 00:27:23,920 --> 00:27:27,320 Speaker 1: me like, oh yeah, like podcasters are really good storytellers, 552 00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,520 Speaker 1: Like that's why they do it, so shut up, let 553 00:27:30,560 --> 00:27:33,159 Speaker 1: them talk and then pop their words into the paper. 554 00:27:34,800 --> 00:27:37,439 Speaker 1: And that's been my theory when it comes to editing 555 00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,679 Speaker 1: meta as well, is that as much as possible, I 556 00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:43,119 Speaker 1: take all of my stuff out, like all of my 557 00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:46,399 Speaker 1: arms and okay, yeah, tell me more about that. I 558 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,040 Speaker 1: cut all of that, and just as much as possible, 559 00:27:49,119 --> 00:27:54,200 Speaker 1: let the podcaster talk to the audience, because I think 560 00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:57,119 Speaker 1: that's the best way that someone listening will discover whether 561 00:27:57,160 --> 00:27:59,119 Speaker 1: they want to hear more from the show or not. 562 00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,760 Speaker 1: And I guess the overarching idea as well is just 563 00:28:04,840 --> 00:28:08,560 Speaker 1: to ensure that there's a really great mix of both 564 00:28:08,640 --> 00:28:12,439 Speaker 1: content and where the content comes from. So if I 565 00:28:12,480 --> 00:28:16,520 Speaker 1: interview someone from the ABC one day, then the next 566 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:21,960 Speaker 1: interview I want to be a completely independent podcast. The 567 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: next one after that might be someone from the New 568 00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:26,879 Speaker 1: York Times that I try my best to mix that 569 00:28:27,000 --> 00:28:29,679 Speaker 1: up as well, So I might have a productivity expert 570 00:28:29,720 --> 00:28:34,640 Speaker 1: on one day and then follow up with a Corona 571 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,520 Speaker 1: cast and then follow that up with a stand up comedian. 572 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: And what's your approach to interviewing people, because like my experience, 573 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,480 Speaker 2: so for context, you interviewed me on the show a 574 00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:50,440 Speaker 2: week ago. We just started talking and I could say 575 00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:52,360 Speaker 2: that it was recording, but in the back of my mind, 576 00:28:52,400 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 2: I was like, oh, have we started yet, So it 577 00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 2: was kind of like this really casual, like kind of okay, no, 578 00:28:57,960 --> 00:29:00,200 Speaker 2: I think we have I think this is it, And 579 00:29:00,240 --> 00:29:02,760 Speaker 2: so there was no like official, oh, welcome to the show, 580 00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,160 Speaker 2: kind of being like just my default with how I 581 00:29:05,200 --> 00:29:07,680 Speaker 2: work after I've had a little chat before I hit record, 582 00:29:08,040 --> 00:29:10,120 Speaker 2: And it was really it was very comfortable. It was 583 00:29:10,120 --> 00:29:13,120 Speaker 2: like a conversation and very easy, and I'm sure that 584 00:29:13,240 --> 00:29:15,880 Speaker 2: like a lot of thought goes into that. So I 585 00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:19,520 Speaker 2: was curious, how do you prepare for your interviews and 586 00:29:19,960 --> 00:29:22,680 Speaker 2: have that very natural kind of style which you do. 587 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,720 Speaker 1: In terms of how I prep what I've found over 588 00:29:28,760 --> 00:29:35,080 Speaker 1: the years is if I go into an interview either 589 00:29:35,200 --> 00:29:40,080 Speaker 1: over prepared or underprepared, it tends to be an interview 590 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:43,920 Speaker 1: that I don't really enjoy after the fact. So what 591 00:29:43,960 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: I tend to do now is a couple of days 592 00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: before I'm going to interview someone, I'll really deep dive 593 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: into what their podcast is or what their background is, 594 00:29:55,440 --> 00:29:59,520 Speaker 1: and I'll just open up the notes app in mac 595 00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: os by way, just because it sinks to everything. So 596 00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,840 Speaker 1: I'll open up a really simple note app and I'll 597 00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,240 Speaker 1: write as many kind of questions and thoughts that I 598 00:30:10,360 --> 00:30:13,800 Speaker 1: have as if I was, you know, interviewing the person 599 00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:15,960 Speaker 1: just then and there. And I find that that's a 600 00:30:15,960 --> 00:30:18,200 Speaker 1: really good way of putting down all of the thoughts 601 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,200 Speaker 1: that I have, thinking up all of the questions I 602 00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:23,840 Speaker 1: might want to ask, and then I rarely look at 603 00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:27,400 Speaker 1: those all of those notes, and you know, it could 604 00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:29,440 Speaker 1: be I could end up writing six hundred words in 605 00:30:29,560 --> 00:30:32,080 Speaker 1: terms of questions and things like that, and then I 606 00:30:32,200 --> 00:30:34,480 Speaker 1: might never refer to them in the in the chat 607 00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 1: that we have, but by thinking out loud about them 608 00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 1: and writing them down, they're kind of there in the 609 00:30:41,280 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 1: background if I need them. So the way I prefer 610 00:30:44,040 --> 00:30:46,680 Speaker 1: to do it is kind of be as prepared as 611 00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:50,760 Speaker 1: possible a couple of days beforehand, and then let that 612 00:30:50,880 --> 00:30:53,800 Speaker 1: kind of sink in and possibly even forget it. And 613 00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,320 Speaker 1: you know, it ends up being that sometimes I'll I'll 614 00:30:56,360 --> 00:30:58,600 Speaker 1: listen back and I'll think, oh, I can't wait till 615 00:30:58,640 --> 00:30:59,480 Speaker 1: I ask this question. 616 00:31:00,520 --> 00:31:02,120 Speaker 5: Oh, that's right. I didn't ask the question. I just 617 00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:03,400 Speaker 5: wrote it down, but I forgot to. 618 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,719 Speaker 1: But most of the time that's fine because instead I 619 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: asked a more interesting question because I let the conversation flow. 620 00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,880 Speaker 2: That's nice. I like that idea of not being over 621 00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:20,320 Speaker 2: or underprepared. Yes, I feel like I could learn something 622 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 2: from that. And I'm curious, because you must get pitched. 623 00:31:24,920 --> 00:31:26,480 Speaker 5: To a lot. 624 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:31,120 Speaker 2: How how do you decide? Because I could definitely relate 625 00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,320 Speaker 2: to that. I get pitches every single day of the 626 00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:37,840 Speaker 2: week for how I work, and multiple times a day. 627 00:31:38,440 --> 00:31:41,080 Speaker 2: Do you have any kind of quick rules of farmers 628 00:31:41,120 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 2: to how you kind of at least give a quick 629 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 2: no or a quick yes. 630 00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:48,720 Speaker 1: Even yeah, that's that's a really hard one, isn't it, 631 00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:50,800 Speaker 1: Because you don't want to You don't want to send 632 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: a no straight away, but then you also don't want 633 00:31:53,400 --> 00:31:56,240 Speaker 1: to leave someone hanging. So I use just to go 634 00:31:56,360 --> 00:31:58,920 Speaker 1: back to software for a second, I use Spark as 635 00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:04,239 Speaker 1: my email client, which most most modern email clients these 636 00:32:04,320 --> 00:32:08,000 Speaker 1: days have some kind of snooze function. And if it's 637 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 1: and so it has, it has snooze. I'm actually I'm 638 00:32:12,040 --> 00:32:14,360 Speaker 1: not one hundred percent behind Spark, And if you've never 639 00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,320 Speaker 1: used it before, I would say it's it is very 640 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,680 Speaker 1: confusing for new players. I've recommended it to a bunch 641 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:23,320 Speaker 1: of people, and I know that it either gels with 642 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: you or it doesn't. So take take that, you know, 643 00:32:27,160 --> 00:32:30,280 Speaker 1: as advanced warning. But anyway, it kind of works for me. 644 00:32:30,360 --> 00:32:34,560 Speaker 1: And so if someone sends through a pitch that either 645 00:32:34,760 --> 00:32:36,320 Speaker 1: it's a show I've never heard about, so I don't 646 00:32:36,360 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: want to answer straight away anyway until I've had a 647 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:41,720 Speaker 1: chance to at least listen to a little bit. Then 648 00:32:41,800 --> 00:32:45,000 Speaker 1: I'll hit snooze until I've got more time to ponder 649 00:32:45,320 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 1: whether that's a show that I think would work for 650 00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:51,720 Speaker 1: the format. But also, I mean the thing I've I've 651 00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,360 Speaker 1: had to say to many indies, and if you're listening 652 00:32:54,440 --> 00:32:57,600 Speaker 1: out there and you're an independent podcast, for the love 653 00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,320 Speaker 1: of God, have a trailer. You know the amount of 654 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:02,920 Speaker 1: times I get asked to listen to a show or 655 00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:05,440 Speaker 1: you know, oh you would love this show, blah blah blah, 656 00:33:05,480 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 1: and then I look at the website and there's like, 657 00:33:08,160 --> 00:33:11,640 Speaker 1: you know, six hundred episodes and where do you start there? 658 00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:13,840 Speaker 5: So, if you're going to pitch to me, please, first 659 00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:14,640 Speaker 5: of all, have a trailer. 660 00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:18,880 Speaker 1: Second of all, have not just a trailer, but say 661 00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:22,400 Speaker 1: if you're a discussion show like this one, then say, hey, 662 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,480 Speaker 1: I really love you to listen to the discussion we 663 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:28,480 Speaker 1: had with so and so, especially the seventeen minute mark. 664 00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:31,600 Speaker 1: I feel, really, you know, boils down what I try 665 00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:32,600 Speaker 1: to pull off on this show. 666 00:33:32,680 --> 00:33:37,120 Speaker 5: Like it's just a really great example of when myself 667 00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:39,440 Speaker 5: and a guest click and so, you know, give me 668 00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:44,160 Speaker 5: a call to action to help me kind of discover 669 00:33:44,240 --> 00:33:46,280 Speaker 5: your show and discover what's great about your show. 670 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,920 Speaker 2: I think that's very useful, just useful advice for people 671 00:33:48,960 --> 00:33:51,800 Speaker 2: that are trying to pitch an idea anywhere, like to 672 00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:56,160 Speaker 2: you know, to their boss, to client, a potential customer. 673 00:33:56,280 --> 00:33:59,600 Speaker 2: Just make it easy for the person and obviously put 674 00:33:59,600 --> 00:34:03,280 Speaker 2: yourself in their shoes, because I can imagine that, like gosh, 675 00:34:03,320 --> 00:34:06,400 Speaker 2: where do you start? Where there is that huge back catalog, 676 00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:09,000 Speaker 2: and I just get such a wide range of quality 677 00:34:09,120 --> 00:34:12,800 Speaker 2: in terms of pitches and how pr folk and guests 678 00:34:12,800 --> 00:34:17,920 Speaker 2: that are pitching themselves directly do things like where Like 679 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:20,279 Speaker 2: so a few I'm noticing will sort of open with 680 00:34:20,320 --> 00:34:23,480 Speaker 2: a bit of a context paragraph like you know, in 681 00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,160 Speaker 2: today's world blah blah blah, and it's like, no, no, no, 682 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:28,840 Speaker 2: I know today's Well, just please get on the guest 683 00:34:28,880 --> 00:34:32,920 Speaker 2: and what value they could add to listeners. So yeah, anyway, 684 00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:35,120 Speaker 2: we nearly at a time. I do want to know, though, 685 00:34:35,160 --> 00:34:39,799 Speaker 2: like what are your go to websites or newsletters that 686 00:34:39,840 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 2: you'll subscribe to, particularly just stay on top of the 687 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:45,960 Speaker 2: latest tech news and stuff that is going on in 688 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:46,400 Speaker 2: the world. 689 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:51,520 Speaker 1: Well, the help desk, if you want to hear just 690 00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:54,880 Speaker 1: ten minutes a day about technology, we'll do our best. 691 00:34:55,320 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: It depends, it depends what you're after. So a good 692 00:34:58,080 --> 00:35:01,479 Speaker 1: friend of mine writes a newsless called The Sizzle at 693 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,200 Speaker 1: the Sizzle dot Com tod au and it is the 694 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,919 Speaker 1: funniest look at technology that you will read. It's five 695 00:35:07,960 --> 00:35:10,520 Speaker 1: bucks a month. It has a lot of swearing in it. 696 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:14,680 Speaker 1: If that will put you off, but it is. It 697 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:20,120 Speaker 1: is just beautifully acerbic writing about technology and companies, and yeah, 698 00:35:20,320 --> 00:35:23,080 Speaker 1: I love it. It comes out every afternoon. I follow 699 00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:25,719 Speaker 1: a lot of people on Twitter, and the ones that 700 00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:31,600 Speaker 1: I trust. If I see those people talking about an issue, 701 00:35:31,880 --> 00:35:35,399 Speaker 1: then generally then that is something that I normally want 702 00:35:35,400 --> 00:35:38,520 Speaker 1: to follow up on. So yeah, a lot a lot 703 00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:41,400 Speaker 1: of it these days kind of comes from seeing what 704 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:44,640 Speaker 1: other people are talking about on Twitter and engaging reactions 705 00:35:44,640 --> 00:35:46,480 Speaker 1: that way, I guess, And. 706 00:35:46,480 --> 00:35:48,600 Speaker 2: Any noteworthy Twitter accounts that you want to mention. 707 00:35:49,160 --> 00:35:51,040 Speaker 5: Oh gosh, all right. 708 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:58,680 Speaker 1: I love John Syracusa is an American technology writer and reviewer. 709 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:02,279 Speaker 1: He's been doing a few year. I absolutely love his 710 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:05,560 Speaker 1: Twitter feed. I think it's one of the best. So 711 00:36:06,040 --> 00:36:08,319 Speaker 1: that is at Syracusa. I'll send you the link so 712 00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:10,399 Speaker 1: you can pop it in the show notes. But yeah, 713 00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:15,200 Speaker 1: he's wonderful. My colleagues at smah or are all very good, 714 00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:19,640 Speaker 1: So Tim Biggs and Alice Clark and Adam Turner are 715 00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,719 Speaker 1: all worth a follow and you'll see us every now 716 00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:26,279 Speaker 1: and again kind of work shopping an idea, you know, 717 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,920 Speaker 1: like in the lead up to the Apple event, you'll 718 00:36:29,080 --> 00:36:32,120 Speaker 1: you know, you might see us in a long thread 719 00:36:32,160 --> 00:36:34,200 Speaker 1: talking about what we think the prices are going to 720 00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:36,439 Speaker 1: be or how we think Apple are going to pitch 721 00:36:36,480 --> 00:36:39,680 Speaker 1: certain things. So, yeah, that could be interesting if you 722 00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:41,160 Speaker 1: if you want to see how the sausage is made. 723 00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 2: What are your favorite podcasts at the moment, given that 724 00:36:43,880 --> 00:36:45,640 Speaker 2: you sample so many. 725 00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: The one I always I always mention as as just 726 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:52,759 Speaker 1: a gem that I don't think enough people listen to 727 00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,440 Speaker 1: is Oer with Ross and Kerry, which is an indie 728 00:36:56,480 --> 00:37:01,920 Speaker 1: show out of the States, and they look at various 729 00:37:02,040 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 1: kind of fringe science and fringe you know, I don't 730 00:37:06,600 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: want to go into it too much, but anyway, they 731 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:12,480 Speaker 1: will look at for instance, they did a study on scientology. 732 00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,120 Speaker 1: Now that sounds very dry and boring, and you've heard 733 00:37:16,120 --> 00:37:18,280 Speaker 1: that one hundred times, but what makes this show different 734 00:37:18,840 --> 00:37:21,160 Speaker 1: is they actually go out and try to you know, 735 00:37:21,520 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: for the scientology one, they both signed up for scientology 736 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:28,440 Speaker 1: and both did like a four month course, spent a 737 00:37:28,440 --> 00:37:33,440 Speaker 1: lot of money going through every level of scientology and 738 00:37:33,480 --> 00:37:35,640 Speaker 1: then reporting back on it, and so it became this 739 00:37:35,760 --> 00:37:38,279 Speaker 1: ten part Yeah, it became these ten part series. And 740 00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:41,279 Speaker 1: they've also just got the greatest chemistry between them. They're 741 00:37:41,320 --> 00:37:44,600 Speaker 1: super funny, they're lovely people, and so they're as generous 742 00:37:44,640 --> 00:37:46,960 Speaker 1: and as fair as they can be about the subjects 743 00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: that they tackle, but then they do it in such 744 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,239 Speaker 1: an incredible deep dive way. And so they you know, 745 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:55,040 Speaker 1: they did another one where like a five part series 746 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:57,560 Speaker 1: on flat Earth where they just went to all the 747 00:37:57,600 --> 00:38:01,160 Speaker 1: different flat Earth conferences and spoke to people, you know, 748 00:38:01,280 --> 00:38:04,840 Speaker 1: as if they really wanted to believe this theory and 749 00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:06,080 Speaker 1: then reported back. 750 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:08,520 Speaker 5: But they're the long investigations they've done. 751 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,480 Speaker 1: But every week they'll do a great little one off 752 00:38:11,719 --> 00:38:14,520 Speaker 1: show as well about I think the latest one was 753 00:38:15,040 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: how would a scientist react to Donald Trump's reelection? Which 754 00:38:20,120 --> 00:38:21,759 Speaker 1: is fascinating on many levels. 755 00:38:22,360 --> 00:38:24,759 Speaker 2: That's awesome. I'm so going to link to that in 756 00:38:24,800 --> 00:38:27,799 Speaker 2: the show notes. And final question for you, Peter, if 757 00:38:27,840 --> 00:38:30,880 Speaker 2: people want to consume more of what you're doing and 758 00:38:30,920 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 2: producing in the world, what is the best way for listeners. 759 00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:34,560 Speaker 3: To do that? 760 00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:38,280 Speaker 1: Follow me on Twitter, I guess, or if you don't 761 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,000 Speaker 1: like Twitter, I promise the websites will be done by 762 00:38:41,040 --> 00:38:45,520 Speaker 1: the time you give this, so that would be metapodcast. 763 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,640 Speaker 5: Dot net and the Helpdesk podcast dot net. 764 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:50,640 Speaker 2: Fantastic and your Twitter handle. I want to say, is 765 00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:51,880 Speaker 2: at Peter Wells. 766 00:38:51,960 --> 00:38:55,359 Speaker 5: It is? It is. I'm very old and I got there. 767 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:59,120 Speaker 2: Early, so well I got at Amantha, So there you go. 768 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:00,479 Speaker 5: Oh no, it's nice. 769 00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:03,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I know, I know. Well, Peter, it has been 770 00:39:03,680 --> 00:39:07,360 Speaker 2: wonderful chatting. Thank you so much for coming on the show. 771 00:39:07,560 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 5: Oh, thank you so much. I really really enjoyed the show. 772 00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:10,520 Speaker 5: So thank you. 773 00:39:11,760 --> 00:39:15,160 Speaker 4: That is it for today's show. I hope you liked it. 774 00:39:15,160 --> 00:39:19,320 Speaker 2: It certainly inspired me to think about my whole processes 775 00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:25,400 Speaker 2: for doing this podcast, which are really not that efficient. 776 00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:29,439 Speaker 2: And yeah, literally, as a result of this interview, I've 777 00:39:29,440 --> 00:39:32,080 Speaker 2: listened out every single step that I go through for 778 00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:34,480 Speaker 2: this podcast, and I've thought about what can I automate, 779 00:39:34,520 --> 00:39:38,320 Speaker 2: what can I delegate, and what do I still do myself. 780 00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 2: So it's a work in progress, but it's definitely getting better. 781 00:39:41,320 --> 00:39:44,279 Speaker 2: And if you are enjoying how I work, why not 782 00:39:44,440 --> 00:39:47,640 Speaker 2: leave a review in Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen 783 00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:52,560 Speaker 2: to this show. And thank you to the four hundred 784 00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,720 Speaker 2: plus people that have left reviews. And mostly five stars. 785 00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,840 Speaker 2: You guys are awesome, so huge. Thank you and to 786 00:39:58,840 --> 00:40:02,359 Speaker 2: those who have written some love kind words. I do 787 00:40:02,480 --> 00:40:04,600 Speaker 2: read all of the reviews and it really does make 788 00:40:04,640 --> 00:40:05,640 Speaker 2: my day, so thank. 789 00:40:05,480 --> 00:40:06,120 Speaker 3: You so much. 790 00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 4: So that is it for today's show and I will 791 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 4: see you next time.