Speaker 1: On a quiet June night in two thousand and two
Speaker 1: in an affluent suburb of Salt Lake City, settled into
Speaker 1: the ordinary rituals asleep, lights, dimmed, doors locked, the regular
Speaker 1: traditions of a family turning in for the night, fourteen
Speaker 1: year old Elizabeth Smart opened her eyes to see a
Speaker 1: man standing in her room that she shared with her sister.
Speaker 1: The man was not a stranger. In fact, he knew
Speaker 1: exactly where he was going. Elizabeth's sister went to their
Speaker 1: parents to tell them that a man had taken Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: What followed would become one of the most harrowing and
Speaker 1: closely watched kidnapping cases in modern American history. This, Georgia Love,
Speaker 1: is a harrowing case of Elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 2: I've seen that there's a docor on Netflix about this,
Speaker 2: and I haven't watched.
Speaker 1: As Oh great, Okay, you are in for an absolute doozy.
Speaker 1: Hey there, everybody, Welcome to Not Now the Crime Podcast.
Speaker 2: I'm Georgia Love, I'm Sammy Peterson, I'm a journalist.
Speaker 1: I am not. But tell you what, if you want
Speaker 1: to skip ahead and just listen to the story, the
Speaker 1: time codes are in the show notes, and I'll tell
Speaker 1: you another little thing. We are recording a spontaneous podcast today.
Speaker 2: Well, yes, for the listeners, it's not spot Regularity's good
Speaker 2: for you. Yeah, correct, Because I'm very bad at keeping
Speaker 2: my calendar and i'm particularly abaud it.
Speaker 1: As you showed me before, you're going to five in May.
Speaker 2: You're going to had a memory that I might be
Speaker 2: going to see five, So I searched the word in
Speaker 2: my calendar, and I am going.
Speaker 1: The band, not just find things.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we'll probably going to five things the same day
Speaker 2: because I forgot I was going there, and I don't
Speaker 2: know who I'm going with anyway. So if you're listening
Speaker 2: to this and I'm going with.
Speaker 1: You, just let me know.
Speaker 2: Alex comment below you please comment below.
Speaker 1: Like comment subscribe to let me know where I'm going.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I'm I'm really bad at putting things in
Speaker 2: my diary if they' booked really far in advance. But
Speaker 2: somehow there's a musical I'm going to that I put
Speaker 2: in twice on two different dates, so I thought I
Speaker 2: was going to it tonight. Turns out I'm not not
Speaker 2: going for two weeks. So I had a spontaneous night off.
Speaker 2: You didn't you had a gig. I had a gig,
Speaker 2: but you got home at nine pm and said, why
Speaker 2: don't you come on over?
Speaker 1: When you come on dawn over, we'll record a podcast
Speaker 1: episode because I've written a couple of episodes with cases
Speaker 1: that I've seen recently that I've been really just really
Speaker 1: kind of mesmerized by. And I will say before how
Speaker 1: I mispronounced mesmerized. Was nothing on the intro which you
Speaker 1: didn't hear. Maybe I'll put it in here, but I
Speaker 1: couldn't pronounce Elizabeth. I think I said this Georgia Love
Speaker 1: is the harrowing case of Elizabeth. So I'll play that here,
Speaker 1: so you know, the blue Puff, some of the hilarious
Speaker 1: that we take out of the podcast, the gig tonights
Speaker 1: and then and then let's record a good book.
Speaker 2: Hey, how was the gig fine?
Speaker 1: Okay, it wasn't amazing. It was just that there's a
Speaker 1: there's a certain thing I think in when I stopped
Speaker 1: doing stand up for six years, and then when I
Speaker 1: came back, I went, if I ever feel that aren't
Speaker 1: fit for stage again, it is the scariest thing to do.
Speaker 1: So I promised myself that I would just do one
Speaker 1: gig a week and I would always kind of keep
Speaker 1: up that fitness. It's like exercise if you just kind
Speaker 1: of keep moving and do something, you work that muscle
Speaker 1: and you're not worried at all, Like someone calls out,
Speaker 1: I like crowded work with that. Yeah, but it's like
Speaker 1: but first going back into it was terrifying, and so
Speaker 1: I was like, I'll just do it once a week.
Speaker 1: And so someone offered me these two gigs unpaid. Two gigs.
Speaker 1: I've got a parking ticket, unpaid. Two gigs are in Collingwood.
Speaker 1: It's a great little place. It's an absolute bunker of
Speaker 1: a place, like it's down two flights well down two
Speaker 1: flights of stairs, but it kind of feels like an
Speaker 1: American like I imagine an America. I haven't been to America,
Speaker 1: but I imagine like a New York club. And so
Speaker 1: you walk down these two flights of stairs and it's
Speaker 1: like this little bun up and it's just it's always
Speaker 1: like backpackers there. It's really interesting because I think it
Speaker 1: kind of feels like a cool like different comedy club
Speaker 1: or a comedy club that they used to and it
Speaker 1: was so funny because it wasn't huge. But I always
Speaker 1: if I can, I'll go and watch all the comedians
Speaker 1: on before me, but none of the other comedians did that.
Speaker 1: So all of them asked where the front row were from,
Speaker 1: and they were all from England. And halfway through the
Speaker 1: third guy, I wanted to go they're all from the UK.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and just listen to the people just it was.
Speaker 1: Pretty embarrassing actually for not that many people there, but yeah,
Speaker 1: it was. It was fun.
Speaker 2: Did you make a joke about that when you went
Speaker 2: on them?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I did, yeah, yeah, yeah, And I just kept
Speaker 1: saying with my friends from Brazil and they laughed at yeah,
Speaker 1: and that show baby, the old Razzle Dazzle. That's right.
Speaker 2: Well, I want to go back to New York this year.
Speaker 1: I mean.
Speaker 2: That's the end of the sentence anyway. But they announced
Speaker 2: today that the new cast of Little Shop of Horrors,
Speaker 2: which is one of our fates.
Speaker 1: That's so good.
Speaker 2: Andy Carl, who is a Broadway legend but is also
Speaker 2: performed in two shows right here in Little Old Australia,
Speaker 2: Groundhog Day and Beetlejuice, and he has been cast as
Speaker 2: the dentist in Little Shop of Horrors.
Speaker 1: He's born to play that role.
Speaker 2: We watched the movie recently and watching it we were
Speaker 2: like Andy Cole needs to play this.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, he's got the comic timing and also like
Speaker 1: he just he just looks like that kind of character
Speaker 1: with a leather jacket. I can just see him do it.
Speaker 1: It's so cool. Like not because he's a monster dentist,
Speaker 1: I will say that.
Speaker 2: I don't think he's even a dentist at all.
Speaker 1: Oh really, not even qualified. And you can play the role. Yes, interesting,
Speaker 1: I guess the plant might not even be a real plant.
Speaker 1: Do you know who's playing Audrey too?
Speaker 2: Audrey two is a plant.
Speaker 1: Ah, they're getting a real plant for it. A fern lady.
Speaker 1: How exciting, a beautiful lady fern. But that's so fun.
Speaker 1: So you're planning on going back to New York just
Speaker 1: to see Andy Carl.
Speaker 2: That's the excuse. There's never it's not ever just for
Speaker 2: one thing. But that's going to be the excuse.
Speaker 1: Can I say this? Because we went to go and
Speaker 1: see Beetlejuice the Musical when Eddie Perfect was on and
Speaker 1: Andy Carl was in the audience watching, Yes, and you
Speaker 1: introduced me to Andy Carl and he couldn't have me
Speaker 1: like been more down to worth and nice. So I thought,
Speaker 1: like kind of I don't know. There's something about like
Speaker 1: an American star where he's usually Broadway star, where you're like,
Speaker 1: or they might be a bit intense or a bit
Speaker 1: like or maybe he just kind of wants to just
Speaker 1: talk to the famous people in the room or something.
Speaker 1: It was so lovely, like a really down to worth
Speaker 1: nice guy.
Speaker 2: And then we saw him again at Tim Minchin.
Speaker 1: Yeah remember, Yeah, of course I had a good chat then.
Speaker 2: Like, it will never not blow my mind that a
Speaker 2: Broadway star, yes, has just chats to me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I know. Actually thought Meryl Streek did that as well.
Speaker 1: She does the famous musical Meryl Straight movie. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: good improv. Don't worry about it. It might be late,
Speaker 1: but we're firing at all cylinders.
Speaker 2: I think we're doing really well. I think we're going
Speaker 2: to keep doing really well. We've got our jams. And
Speaker 2: one of my friends who listens to the pod said
Speaker 2: to me today, sometimes I can tell when you're drinking
Speaker 2: jams because I can hear when you because I can't
Speaker 2: hear the burp, but I can hear mid sentence when
Speaker 2: you kind of go like stop a bit. I was like, well,
Speaker 2: it's actually carbonated drink.
Speaker 1: It's actually carbinated drink. But yeah, so this this documentary
Speaker 1: rights so Elizabeth Smart documentary which which I just are
Speaker 1: watch recently, I've been so I don't know what it is,
Speaker 1: but I think the Lucy let Be documentary has just
Speaker 1: come out, and the Elizabeth Smart one. Elizabeth Smart was
Speaker 1: not someone And we always talk about this that we
Speaker 1: don't know all the crimes.
Speaker 2: We can't know all the crimes, but we will after
Speaker 2: a few more years of this podleam.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, asolutely. But this story in particular was something
Speaker 1: that I was surprised not to know about.
Speaker 2: I don't know about it either. Yeah, And my friend Frannye,
Speaker 2: who's obsessed with true crime, said like message me the
Speaker 2: other day, going, I'm watching the Elizabeth Smart documentary, but
Speaker 2: I'm not loving it. I think I just know the
Speaker 2: case too. Well, Yes, that's interesting, so it must Oh god,
Speaker 2: this is going to be one of those embarrassing ones
Speaker 2: we say we don't know it.
Speaker 1: That's the thing, though, There's so many different crimes that
Speaker 1: I think you and I have been fascinated with over
Speaker 1: the years, and you know, like when you did Peter
Speaker 1: Do Pass and the Joe Chinqua episode. For me, it's
Speaker 1: like it's you have these episodes that you go, I'll
Speaker 1: do that one because I know about that one.
Speaker 2: Something there just stick in your mind, stick in.
Speaker 1: Your mind, and everyone has one of those, and I
Speaker 1: kind of think when when we go through this story,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart is definitely one of those.
Speaker 2: For a lot of well, one of the stories that
Speaker 2: we've done before. There's actually been an update on Oh wow, okay, yes,
Speaker 2: so it was. The episode was titled The wood Chipper.
Speaker 1: Oh yes, of course. Yeah. So a man well very
Speaker 1: excited on that episode because you just got back from
Speaker 1: New York City. Were chit chatting away and look, we
Speaker 1: got lots of complaints on an episode about how chit
Speaker 1: chatty you are. It's fine, go back.
Speaker 2: And so a man named this is This is an
Speaker 2: Australian Bruce Saunders was murdered by his here we go.
Speaker 1: He was in a love triangle.
Speaker 2: It was in a love triangle. He didn't particularly know
Speaker 2: that he was his fiance and slash kind of x.
Speaker 2: She says they had split up. She was string him along.
Speaker 2: Her name is Sharon and she was with another man
Speaker 2: called Gregory Rosa. Gregory Rosa and his friend murdered Bruce
Speaker 2: and put his body through a wood chipper to make
Speaker 2: it look like it had been a terrible industrial accident, such.
Speaker 1: A brutal and horrifying death. Yeah, awful.
Speaker 2: Well. Gregory Rosa was sentenced to life in prison, but
Speaker 2: appealed the sentence. Oh actually, sorry, appealed the conviction. The
Speaker 2: appealed grounds were that his lawyers.
Speaker 1: Argued that he didn't want to go to jail.
Speaker 2: Yes, exactly, So he and Sharon were tried separately, and
Speaker 2: his argument was that they shouldn't have been tried separately
Speaker 2: because then that impact negatively impacted his trial because Sharon
Speaker 2: had been found guilty.
Speaker 1: Take the heater. Ah right, okay, And just this.
Speaker 2: Week at the time of recording, the appeals court went, nah,
Speaker 2: so he's officially going to spend life in prison.
Speaker 1: Oh and good yes, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, wow, Okay,
Speaker 1: that's really interesting. And also the Philip Island murder, there's
Speaker 1: been no real update.
Speaker 2: There on has been an update, there's no final answer.
Speaker 2: The update is and so if you haven't heard, when
Speaker 2: we discussed this before, a skull and vertebrae were found
Speaker 2: in the backyard in Philip Island. Yes, yeah, that we
Speaker 2: got very excited that that might be the body or
Speaker 2: the remains of Vivian Cameron. That episode is called the
Speaker 2: Philip Island Murder if you want to go back and
Speaker 2: listen to that. Police have said that the forensic testing
Speaker 2: on the remains is still ongoing, but they do not
Speaker 2: believe it's linked to quote any active missing persons cases. Yes, yeah,
Speaker 2: which is interesting. You know what I've been thinking about
Speaker 2: it since? Is Vivian Cameron an active missing person's case?
Speaker 2: Because it didn't, haven't they ruled that? Yeah, I guess
Speaker 2: she's not suicide. Yeah, Oh my god, I've just realized this. Yeah,
Speaker 2: maybe that's interesting.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like they Yeah, I
Speaker 1: feel like they didn't stop anyone from talking about it.
Speaker 1: I don't know, can't get we can't get too into
Speaker 1: this because who knows, but it would be really interesting.
Speaker 1: We have to have Vicki Patritis on to talk about it,
Speaker 1: who wrote the book with Paul Delaney, The Philippilo Murderers,
Speaker 1: has called that and it's fascinating and I've had a
Speaker 1: few conversations with Vicky there in the last few weeks.
Speaker 2: There's been another thing in the news today. So we
Speaker 2: haven't discussed this before because it hasn't been considered a
Speaker 2: crime yet.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: A four year old boy in South Australia called Gus
Speaker 2: Lamont went missing back in September. He was at a
Speaker 2: family like a rural property of sheep farm with family
Speaker 2: members and he wandered off and went missing. There's been
Speaker 2: extensive searchers and no trace of him has been found
Speaker 2: at all. Just today. So that was in September. Now
Speaker 2: in January, police have revealed that they do believe there
Speaker 2: was foul play. Oh wow, and that the owner of
Speaker 2: that property is their one and only suspect. Now it's
Speaker 2: not the parents. They're very very very parents that they
Speaker 2: had no involvement, but a family member is their one
Speaker 2: and only suspects.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Okay, that's so fascinating.
Speaker 2: When we find it, When or if we find out
Speaker 2: more about that, we will be updated. But I just
Speaker 2: thought if anyone, you know, our listeners have known that
Speaker 2: from the news or anything, that was a big story
Speaker 2: today because they were really adamant earlier saying it's not
Speaker 2: any foul play, but today they've said yes, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: And sorry, I'm just going to stop because as we're
Speaker 1: as we're doing this, we've had a speak pipe come
Speaker 1: through from someone we know, and also I wanted to
Speaker 1: do this before we actually really get into the podcast
Speaker 1: today because we always do mailbag at the end. I
Speaker 1: think that's I think that's great, but I just want
Speaker 1: to kind of read a couple of things just quickly
Speaker 1: because I really really kind of love this that came
Speaker 1: in from someone called Wilm that came in late today
Speaker 1: and I just wanted to read this. Hi, Sammy and Georgia.
Speaker 1: After recently discovering your podcast from the Epsamy did on
Speaker 1: Miss New Body, I can confirm I am obsessed. Much
Speaker 1: like Miss Previous bang on. It feels like I'm having
Speaker 1: a veno with my mates. Your friendship is electric and
Speaker 1: brings such lightness to heavy topics. I just listened to
Speaker 1: your Joe Chinkway episode. Being from Canberra, I was drawn
Speaker 1: to it immediately to provide a take on the title
Speaker 1: of Helen Ghana's book, which was Joe Chinway's Consolation. I
Speaker 1: think Joe's Consolation is the book itself. With all the
Speaker 1: media focus on a new in a state of mind,
Speaker 1: the book sheds light on Joe and his family and
Speaker 1: ensures he's known and not forgotten. And I absolutely love that.
Speaker 1: I love that as a small consolation in a senseless act.
Speaker 1: Thanks for giving me something new to obsess over. Vilma.
Speaker 1: I love Vilma as a name.
Speaker 2: So that's a beautiful name.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I want to say the last name, but we're
Speaker 1: beautiful full name. And I'm like, oh my god, I'm
Speaker 1: not saying that people don't have full names, but don't
Speaker 1: don't know me for that. Actually, you're right.
Speaker 2: Before youve doesn't God?
Speaker 1: You all right? Well? Because this person we just spoke about,
Speaker 1: so I thought it'd be really funny that they've actually
Speaker 1: sent in a speak pipe an hour ago. This is
Speaker 1: someone that you know very well.
Speaker 3: Hello, Sammy and Georgia. It's Alex friend here, long time listener,
Speaker 3: first time call up. We've up the great work. I
Speaker 3: love listening to your two episodes each week, usually when
Speaker 3: i'm writing to work or from work, or out in
Speaker 3: the garden when i'm doing some watering like i'm doing
Speaker 3: right now. I just finished listening to an episode and
Speaker 3: your poor dry peeved to which are where you complained
Speaker 3: about not being able to complete an electronic declaration that
Speaker 3: you have to use the pen and paper. Yes, I've
Speaker 3: got some good news for you. Recently came back from
Speaker 3: an overseas trip in Paloo and was pleased to see
Speaker 3: on the Quantus app I could complete a custom was declaration.
Speaker 3: You then take a screenshot of it and then use
Speaker 3: that when you coming back through customs. So something you
Speaker 3: probably weren't aware of and you'll be excited to be
Speaker 3: able to use when your next travel speak to you.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Alex, I love you.
Speaker 1: Isn't that great?
Speaker 2: Leave another speak pipe and let me know if I'm
Speaker 2: going to five?
Speaker 1: Did you? Can you let me know my plans over
Speaker 1: the next few weeks. I want to say as well
Speaker 1: before we get into it, because also if you want
Speaker 1: to leave a beautiful speak pipe for us a voicemail,
Speaker 1: we would absolutely love that. The link is below to
Speaker 1: do that, or you can write in like Filmer did
Speaker 1: to Semi at just another company, dot com, dot you.
Speaker 1: We will do the mail bag at the end. But
Speaker 1: I thought that was fun to do those at the front.
Speaker 2: I'm my god, that's great. How funny that I brought
Speaker 2: up Alex, And I also love that he didn't just
Speaker 2: text me that.
Speaker 1: Well, No, I thought I thought that was funny because
Speaker 1: I thought because we had to reschedule dinner with him
Speaker 1: next week, I've texted him to I thought it might
Speaker 1: have been a message about that anyway. So Alex is
Speaker 1: a beautiful friend of yours. Yes, and Alex, I've never
Speaker 1: really hung out with one on one before until until
Speaker 1: Alex came over here to check out my new place
Speaker 1: and was so lovely and supportive about it. He brought
Speaker 1: Digs a Christmas gift and like me, a housewarming gift,
Speaker 1: and it was just so nice. And Alex is just
Speaker 1: one of those people that you're just like you immediately
Speaker 1: just like them, You just like you're drawn to them.
Speaker 1: He's beautiful, He's so funny as well, and just like
Speaker 1: the loveliest person around.
Speaker 2: Can I tell a great Alex story? So I had
Speaker 2: news Eve at his house. Yeah, yeah, yeah, And I
Speaker 2: was talking to one of his friends who we were
Speaker 2: talking about Halloween. And his friend is a gay guy
Speaker 2: and I was talking to him about Halloween, said what
Speaker 2: did you dress up as? And then I showed him
Speaker 2: a picture of my costume and I didn't say what
Speaker 2: it was. I just showed him the picture, yes, and
Speaker 2: he didn't know what it was.
Speaker 1: And I dressed up as Rankenstein.
Speaker 2: No, that was h I'm so sorry I dressed up
Speaker 2: as Nicole Sheer as normal Desmond in the Broadway remake
Speaker 2: of Sunset Boulevard, so very niche. But I thought, you
Speaker 2: know audience. Yeah, he didn't know, and I went, oh no,
Speaker 2: I'm so disappointed. And he said, whose party was it?
Speaker 2: And I named the friends whose party was who were
Speaker 2: who were all gay guys, very like kind of big
Speaker 2: in the Melbourne scene. Do you know drag shows? And
Speaker 2: I was like, you know, listing off the names and
Speaker 2: I said, you know, you know not No Thomas Jasper,
Speaker 2: It's no calm now. No, do you know dog Crazy? No? Well,
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, Granny Bingo, you know Granny Bingo?
Speaker 2: And He's like no, And I said, oh, you and
Speaker 2: I moving different, very different gay circles. And Alex was
Speaker 2: walking past and heard just that sentence and stopped and
Speaker 2: said to me, gee, how many times do I have
Speaker 2: to tell you you're not a gay?
Speaker 1: Man's so funny? He showed me some of the funniest
Speaker 1: video that night as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I had a little MENTI bee. Well, I had
Speaker 2: a huge, big mentib that day during the afternoon and
Speaker 2: then went to his house that night and was just
Speaker 2: a little bit a lot of bit drained from my
Speaker 2: big MENTIB and it was only maybe quarter past midnight,
Speaker 2: and I was like, you know what, I think I'll
Speaker 2: go home. My friend was driving, and so I was like,
Speaker 2: I'll go with her and Alex's partner, my other very
Speaker 2: good friend, Eugene said no. I was like no, no, no,
Speaker 2: don't go.
Speaker 4: Oh no.
Speaker 2: So Alex was saying, don't go, don't go, and Eugene disappeared,
Speaker 2: and I started packing up my stuff and Eugene had
Speaker 2: left to put on the Chicago soundtrack, knowing exactly what,
Speaker 2: and so Eugene and I performed like full blown, performed
Speaker 2: four different numbers from Chicago, and my friends would taking
Speaker 2: like videoing me saying she was literally leaving two minutes
Speaker 2: ago and was on the couch having a full blown
Speaker 2: anxiety attack three hours ago.
Speaker 1: Well, what I love about it as well is you
Speaker 1: get quite angry in all of the videos when people
Speaker 1: aren't doing the white choreography. He sits in your head. Yep.
Speaker 2: Well, because my best friend Arbor, he and I have
Speaker 2: we've known each other for so long, our brains have
Speaker 2: like SYNCD up, So there have been multiple times that
Speaker 2: we've been and again like that, performing for our friends
Speaker 2: and we'll just look at each other and know exactly
Speaker 2: what we're going to do next. And we've done like
Speaker 2: lifts and dips and stuff without ever practicing them or
Speaker 2: discussing them. So I thought that Eugene would be the same.
Speaker 1: But apparently not.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, his soul mate is in fact Alex, not me.
Speaker 1: Now we're going to get into the episode this week,
Speaker 1: but I just want to say quickly. I've said you
Speaker 1: know how to contact us, but another great thing is
Speaker 1: follow us on the social Media's Not Another Crime.
Speaker 2: Podcast on TikTok, Instagram and YouTube, and please leave us
Speaker 2: a five star review and five star rating. The best
Speaker 2: thing is on Spotify. You can actually comment and engage
Speaker 2: with us on every single episode.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we love that. The nice ones we love. But
Speaker 1: also it's Oliver Clark's birthday today recording this. He does
Speaker 1: the theme song for this podcast, Hams and Hayes does
Speaker 1: the artwork. We are very excited. We love doing this
Speaker 1: bloody podcast.
Speaker 2: I say happy birthday to Oliver in the style of Oliver,
Speaker 2: of course, happy birthday to you.
Speaker 1: That's very good. It also just sounds like you're doing
Speaker 1: a newsreader voice.
Speaker 2: So that would be happy birthday to you.
Speaker 1: That's great as well, little bit ready for this as
Speaker 1: who can't. Yeah, Well, they say, danger announces itself, that
Speaker 1: it crashes through doors, raises its voice, leaves unmistakable signs behind.
Speaker 1: But some of the most devastating crimes do the opposite.
Speaker 1: They arrive quietly in familiar spaces and disappear before anyone
Speaker 1: understands what has occurred. Elizabeth Smart was taken from under
Speaker 1: their noses, from our own home, from a room where
Speaker 1: she should have been the safest, from a family sleeping
Speaker 1: just feet away. There was no dramatic chase, no immediate alarm,
Speaker 1: only the slow dawning realization that a child was gone.
Speaker 1: By the time the house woke up to the absence,
Speaker 1: the moment to stop at it all already passed. What
Speaker 1: followed was a search filled with fear, urgency, anger, and
Speaker 1: unanswered questions, shadowed by unbearable truth that the crime had
Speaker 1: occurred not in isolation, but in plain proximity to those
Speaker 1: who loved her most. What more could have been done.
Speaker 1: This is a story of how a life can be
Speaker 1: stolen without warning, how evil can move silently through ordinary spaces.
Speaker 1: In fact, maybe the evil person is known, And how
Speaker 1: a girl was taken not from some distant place, but
Speaker 1: from right there under their noses. This case was defined
Speaker 1: by brazen, cruel, haunting, near misses, and a family's strength
Speaker 1: that would later rewrite the story. It's the moment the
Speaker 1: unthinkable happened through the long, agonizing months that followed, months
Speaker 1: punctuated by hope, dread, and a series of cliff edge
Speaker 1: turns that repeatedly suggested the truth was just one step
Speaker 1: away and then snatched it back again. The Smart family
Speaker 1: home sat in a leafy Salt Lake City neighborhood, comfortable, safe,
Speaker 1: and unremarkable.
Speaker 2: Can I just say, you've been running some really beautiful
Speaker 2: intros to your stories, ain't they? We just start with
Speaker 2: so and say was born in You've been running really
Speaker 2: beautiful trying harder for love, Georgia, Love.
Speaker 1: In the safest way. Security often is a little Smart
Speaker 1: was fourteen years old at the time, Bright, musical, conscience,
Speaker 1: conscientious consciences, nearly nearly her family went to bed on
Speaker 1: the fourth of June two thousand and two, acting nothing
Speaker 1: more than routines of a weekday morning.
Speaker 2: Can I just ask, just because I'm trying to kind
Speaker 2: of just put in my mind, you said they're from
Speaker 2: Sole City. Yes, are they Mormon or.
Speaker 1: They are y? Yeah. Sometime after two am a man
Speaker 1: entered the house. He carried a knife. Oh, he knew
Speaker 1: where he was going. Elizabeth was sleeping. Elizabeth was sleeping
Speaker 1: in a bedroom she shared with her younger sister.
Speaker 2: We do have a friend called Elizabeth that everyone calls Bamy.
Speaker 1: She with her younger sister, Mary Catherine. What happened next
Speaker 1: will be remembered in fragments, terror whispers, the cold certainty
Speaker 1: of a threat. The intruder pressed the knife to Elizabeth
Speaker 1: and told her he would kill her family. If she
Speaker 1: made a sound. She froze. He ordered her to come
Speaker 1: with him. Mary Catherine, half awake, witnessed the unthinkable, her
Speaker 1: sister being taken in the strain, in the dark by
Speaker 1: a stranger who seemed to vanish into the night. It
Speaker 1: seemed unbelievable. The door closed, silence returned, and the clock
Speaker 1: kept dicking. By the time anyone realized Elizabeth was even missing,
Speaker 1: the darkness had already swallowed her footsteps. Whatever chance there
Speaker 1: was to stop this had slipped silently into the night.
Speaker 1: Corey Lyman, a police captain, got the call. He thought
Speaker 1: that a kidnapping in Federal Heights where they were would
Speaker 1: be solved really quickly. It was very uncommon and just
Speaker 1: not a thing that ever happened. Federal Heights is a
Speaker 1: very affluent place, a place that is described in the
Speaker 1: Netflix documentary as a place you just wouldn't think crime happened.
Speaker 1: Corey thought that Elizabeth would be returned within forty eight hours.
Speaker 1: When Corey arrived at the scene, it was both ordinary
Speaker 1: and catastrophic. There was no obvious signs of forced entry,
Speaker 1: no ransom note, no witnesses beyond a traumatized child. There
Speaker 1: was a chair outside that being propped up against a window,
Speaker 1: so did someone break in? Well, investigators started to think
Speaker 1: that maybe this was all staged. Mary Catherine told officers
Speaker 1: that she what she had seen a tall man, long hair,
Speaker 1: a beard, wearing a robe.
Speaker 2: Thank god that she was there. I assume they're sharing
Speaker 2: a bedroom. Thank god she was to at least be
Speaker 2: able to ye. It's reminding me a little bit of
Speaker 2: Eloise Woolich that we've done a story. Well, mal Wolden
Speaker 2: was one of my guests and told that story, and
Speaker 2: that's a local Melbourne. One girl went missing from her
Speaker 2: bedroom in the middle of the nine has never been found,
Speaker 2: and you're part of the reason of that is because
Speaker 2: no one saw anything. So I'm hoping, well, yeah, I
Speaker 2: maw a shadow, but I'm hoping this has a better
Speaker 2: ending than that.
Speaker 1: Well. The interesting thing as well was she saw it,
Speaker 1: but then she just froze because what do you do?
Speaker 1: You know, like it's so little thing.
Speaker 2: At least she was able to say, yeah, a man
Speaker 2: came into the bedroom, like, you know, at least that's
Speaker 2: a start. So straight away they're not looking at it
Speaker 2: as a you know, that she's run away or something.
Speaker 1: No, no, but also like you know, the dad kind
Speaker 1: of thought at the time, is this just a nightmare?
Speaker 1: You know? So they're searching for her, but kind of
Speaker 1: going maybe this it's a nightmare. Who knows. So the
Speaker 1: man who was in the room spoke in a very
Speaker 1: soft but commanding voice, and he had a knife. This
Speaker 1: is what Mary Catherine told the police. The description was
Speaker 1: unsettling and vague, with no physical evidence and only a
Speaker 1: child's terrified memory, Investigators were sprinting after a shadow, one
Speaker 1: that may already have crossed a line they could never reach.
Speaker 1: Police received about forty thousand tips right away, Sorry how
Speaker 1: many forty thousand tips.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: They assembled a team of hundreds of investigators. They interviewed teachers,
Speaker 1: friends and everyone they could think of. Search teams mobilize immediately.
Speaker 2: Do you know what kind of tips like that they'd
Speaker 2: seen her, or that there's in my area exactly how
Speaker 2: you meant to go through forty thousand and work out what?
Speaker 1: And also wild like, you know, it's a thing if
Speaker 1: you know, if you see something, say something, but not
Speaker 1: if you just see something for a car that's not Yeah,
Speaker 1: it would be really hard because it's like maybe people
Speaker 1: are trying their best to go I did see something,
Speaker 1: but it might not be connected. And that's like the
Speaker 1: resourcing alone. Canvases went door to door, roadblocks were established,
Speaker 1: Helicopters scanned nearby foothills. Foothills if you don't know, it's
Speaker 1: just a term that always comes up in this story,
Speaker 1: foothills if you don't know, a low hills at the
Speaker 1: base of a mountain or mountain range.
Speaker 2: I always kind of just thought it meant like the
Speaker 2: bottom of a mountain.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I think that the base, but like at the
Speaker 1: start of a mountain, it might be like, you know,
Speaker 1: just a small mountain that then becomes a large mountain.
Speaker 1: I think yeah, the Smart family had a good reputation,
Speaker 1: and so neighbors all came to their aid very quickly.
Speaker 1: To aid in the search, investigators focused on one crucial tale.
Speaker 1: The intruder appeared to know the layout of the house
Speaker 1: that suggested prior contact. Mary Catherine knew that she recognized
Speaker 1: the man's voice, but she just couldn't place it. It
Speaker 1: would be a long time before the truth would reveal
Speaker 1: itself and Mary would know exactly who this person was.
Speaker 1: But would it all be too late? But you have
Speaker 1: kind of started in the thick of it today. We
Speaker 1: need to step back to really look at the Smart
Speaker 1: family and particularly Elizabeth Smart.
Speaker 2: It was that we're using that as a proper noun
Speaker 2: or is it an adjective? As a verb? Are they smart?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: Not a verb?
Speaker 2: An adjective is great? Are they a smart family?
Speaker 1: By name and by no Chase Elizabeth Smart was born
Speaker 1: on November third, nineteen eighty seven, in Salt Lake City, Utah.
Speaker 1: She was born into a loving Mormon family who took
Speaker 1: a lot of pride in their Mormon beliefs, and it
Speaker 1: was a big family too. Elizabeth was the second eldest
Speaker 1: child of four brothers and one sister, so six children
Speaker 1: all up. You can we see in the documentary which
Speaker 1: I quite like the documentary that are recently released on Netflix.
Speaker 1: And there's a great family photo of all the Smart family.
Speaker 1: Mormon families are always quite big, but this one was
Speaker 1: quite nice to see. Like, you know, they look like
Speaker 1: they're quite a bit of character, these people. You can
Speaker 1: kind of see their personalities coming through.
Speaker 2: I'm being so good in not quoting Book of Mormon
Speaker 2: right now.
Speaker 1: Just wanted to say yourself, you do it later, Elizabeth.
Speaker 1: So each of the children were loved by Ed and
Speaker 1: Lowers Smart. They were each cared for equally, with each
Speaker 1: child love just as much as the next. No favorites here,
Speaker 1: Georgia love.
Speaker 2: No. I don't believe that. They always say if you
Speaker 2: if your parents says they don't have a favorite, it
Speaker 2: just means it's not you.
Speaker 1: That's a joke. Oh is that?
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I've always just like known that, Joe.
Speaker 1: Yeah, she says, yeah, exactly that it's if she says
Speaker 1: you're not a favorite, you know, that means it just
Speaker 1: wasn't you. Yeah. Yeah, But I'm not all bad.
Speaker 4: I really am not all bad. I've got a favorite child.
Speaker 4: That's nice. That freaks people out because mothers have this
Speaker 4: policy line, you know, we don't have any favorites.
Speaker 2: We love you all the same.
Speaker 4: God, that's not actually true. So your mom said that
Speaker 4: to you, So you know, she said to you that
Speaker 4: she didn't have any favorites, she loved you all the same,
Speaker 4: pretty much, just meant you weren't it.
Speaker 2: I know I was my mom's favorite. It's all right,
Speaker 2: because Katie's my dad, You're my favorite.
Speaker 1: Cac ay. She did that after that big blow. At fourteen,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth was looking forward to a middle school graduation from
Speaker 1: Bryant Middle School and moving into East High School in
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City. Salt Lake City, cussiity sorry though Georgia
Speaker 1: love She was sporty, musical, she played the harp, oh wow,
Speaker 1: and a much person at school. She was a pretty
Speaker 1: picture perfect fourteen year old. She was pretty quiet, reserved.
Speaker 1: She had a small group of tight knit friends and
Speaker 1: wasn't a member of any chat rooms or the online
Speaker 1: world at all. She kind of stayed away from that
Speaker 1: where she might meet someone nefarious. So that was kind
Speaker 1: of you know, that was like, oh well, she could
Speaker 1: have on line, It couldn't have been someone in chat room. Also,
Speaker 1: she didn't have a boyfriend. It seemed bizarre that Elizabeth
Speaker 1: would be the target of such a crime. Was it
Speaker 1: someone close to home or perhaps a robbery gone horribly wrong.
Speaker 1: Maybe Elizabeth saw the person's face and they had to
Speaker 1: take her so that she wouldn't identify them all. Now,
Speaker 1: let's kind of meet the family really quickly. Here, We've
Speaker 1: got ed Smart, Elizabeth's father, edm former real estate agent
Speaker 1: and mortgage broker who became a public advocate for missing
Speaker 1: persons safety after his daughter's abduction. We've got lowest Smart,
Speaker 1: Lois is now a speaker and author who has drawn
Speaker 1: on her family's experiences to raise awareness about child safety
Speaker 1: and trauma recovery.
Speaker 2: Well, God, none of this is giving away whether.
Speaker 1: She was found, but at this stage of the story,
Speaker 1: she was a stay at home mother who cared for
Speaker 1: six children and lived the ways of the Mormon life.
Speaker 1: Charles Smart is Elizabeth's older brother. He has really maintained
Speaker 1: a really private life, much like Andrew Edward Edward Junior Smart,
Speaker 1: William Smart, and of course Mary Catherine, who was the
Speaker 1: younger sister who shared the room with Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: Okay, I'm going to say something here. You said there
Speaker 2: were no favorites.
Speaker 1: One of the children I know well, the father statement
Speaker 1: of the members. Mary Catherine was Elizabeth's younger sister who
Speaker 1: played a pivotal role and heroic role in this case.
Speaker 1: She later identified her abductors are so her sister's abductors
Speaker 1: voice to investigators. It was a familiar voice to her.
Speaker 1: There was a lot of pressure on her to remember
Speaker 1: the name, which she later spoke.
Speaker 2: Out about, and how old was she at the time.
Speaker 1: She was nine. Oh my god, I'm so young. In
Speaker 1: the early hours of June fifth, two thousand and two,
Speaker 1: Mary Catherine, who shared a room with Elizabeth, would make
Speaker 1: her way into her parents' bedroom. She walked over to
Speaker 1: her mum, Lois's side, and woke her up, saying, Mum,
Speaker 1: somebody has taken Elizabeth. Both parents first didn't understand the
Speaker 1: severity of the situation. As Ed started searching the girl's room,
Speaker 1: They were brushing it off at first, thinking perhaps Mary
Speaker 1: Catherine was having a nightmare. Lois soon came down with
Speaker 1: Mary Catherine a few moments later, so Ed was kind
Speaker 1: of searching downstairs, where she said that they wouldn't find
Speaker 1: her and that a man had taken her. So while
Speaker 1: they're searching me, Catherine says that heartbreaking. They then turned
Speaker 1: on the light in the kitchen and saw the kitchen
Speaker 1: window had been opened and the fly screen had been
Speaker 1: sliced large enough for someone to fit through. That's exactly
Speaker 1: when they realized what Mary Catherine was saying was true.
Speaker 2: God, you can't even imagine, my God.
Speaker 1: Police were called immediately and the neighborhood was locked down
Speaker 1: as officers focused on the immediate area. When they arrived
Speaker 1: at the home, they noticed a damaged window screen that
Speaker 1: had been cut with a knife. Beneath the window were
Speaker 1: actually two chairs so you kin see a photo, usually
Speaker 1: just one chair in the photo, but it was two
Speaker 1: chairs placed back to back our position to give an
Speaker 1: intruder enough height to actually climb into the kitchen. It
Speaker 1: was a brazen break, and investigators was struck by the
Speaker 1: audacity of someone was entering home with six people inside.
Speaker 2: Yes.
Speaker 1: As a result, attention initially turned inward. Could Elizabeth's parents
Speaker 1: Ed and Lois have been involved and if so, what
Speaker 1: possible motive there be? No DNA was recovered, there were
Speaker 1: no usable fingerprints. Search dogs tracked Elizabeth sent from the
Speaker 1: house to the woods behind it. It's always the woods.
Speaker 1: But when the trail ran kind of abruptly ended, it
Speaker 1: raised a possibility that maybe she was taking in a
Speaker 1: vehicle from the back of the house. There were later
Speaker 1: suggestions that the crime scene may have been contaminated, though
Speaker 1: little detail has ever been publicly.
Speaker 2: Clarified because of people searching.
Speaker 1: This is straight away, yeah, and not really making that
Speaker 1: I guess the proper precautions.
Speaker 2: And it's so hard not to do that because of
Speaker 2: course you've got to go looking. But then yet it
Speaker 2: can contaminate.
Speaker 1: Exactly, and if you've got dogs in there and everything,
Speaker 1: it's just going to not offense digs.
Speaker 2: But yeah, computers actually never be offended by anything.
Speaker 1: No computers were seized from the home, and investigators conducted
Speaker 1: in exhaustive search. Due to the overwhelming stress, devastation, and
Speaker 1: the psychological tool of being considered a suspect while his
Speaker 1: daughter was missing, ed Smart was actually admitted to a
Speaker 1: psychiatric ward in a hospital for a period of.
Speaker 2: Time he was considered a suspect.
Speaker 1: Yeah. He described shaking uncontrollably and crying throughout the night
Speaker 1: due to distress.
Speaker 2: In the end, well, hang on, I'm saying, oh, I don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, in the end, the only direct evidence came
Speaker 1: from the single witness, Elizabeth's younger sister, Mary Catherine.
Speaker 2: So why were they considering the data suspect because they
Speaker 2: could have an inside things and they I mean, I
Speaker 2: suppose could have told her to say that all.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, and they weren't taking that as the only thing.
Speaker 1: She was also interrogated Paul Mary Catherine. She told investigators
Speaker 1: a consistent story, though she said she woke to find
Speaker 1: a man creeping into their bedroom. Terrified, she froze and
Speaker 1: pretended to be asleep. She watched as the intruder approached
Speaker 1: Elizabeth and threatened her with what she initially believed was
Speaker 1: a gun but later identified as a knife. He warned
Speaker 1: her not to make a sound and to come with him.
Speaker 1: He then led Elizabeth out of the room. Moments later
Speaker 1: they were gone. Only then did Mary Catherine wake her parents.
Speaker 1: Hers was the sole eyewitness account of what happened in
Speaker 1: the room that night. Police asked Mary Catherine whether she
Speaker 1: recognized the intruder's voice. She said she couldn't identify him visually,
Speaker 1: the room had been far too dark, but she did
Speaker 1: recognize the voice. It was familiar to her, though she
Speaker 1: couldn't a place kind of where she knew it from.
Speaker 1: A reward of two hundred and fifty thousand dollars was
Speaker 1: offered for any information leading to Elizabeth's return, and police
Speaker 1: were convinced this was not a ransom attack. So ransom
Speaker 1: attack or indeed a random attack. You know, they hadn't
Speaker 1: left a ransom note or.
Speaker 2: But they knew that someone knew, that someone knew.
Speaker 1: The investigators moved quickly, knowing the first seventy two hours
Speaker 1: were critical. With every hour that passed, the risk to
Speaker 1: Elizabeth being found dead increased. Oh god. The community response
Speaker 1: was overwhelming. Nearly one eight hundred people joined the search. Wow,
Speaker 1: and the case soon drew international attention. So the family
Speaker 1: and the community were very loved and everything, and everyone
Speaker 1: just kind of rallied around. And when this doesn't happen
Speaker 1: in Federal Heights, we're all going out to search at once.
Speaker 1: Police began by eliminating the most immediate suspects. The parents
Speaker 1: ed smart became the initial focus. One of the first
Speaker 1: detectives on the scene noted the absence of scuff marks
Speaker 1: on the wall near the window, marks that would typically
Speaker 1: be expected if someone had actually climbed it inside and
Speaker 1: kind of dragged their body a bit inside.
Speaker 2: Oh so maybe the chair was placed there as.
Speaker 1: A ruse exactly. Yeah, this raised an unsettling question, was
Speaker 1: the break in actually staged. Attention then turned to Ed's
Speaker 1: brother brothers, Dave and Tom. Dave passed a polygraph test. Tom, however,
Speaker 1: s fision after making what some perceived as odd comments
Speaker 1: to the media, reporting.
Speaker 2: Sorry, is that is this one Elizabeth's brothers?
Speaker 3: No?
Speaker 1: These are these are Ed's brothers?
Speaker 2: All right?
Speaker 1: So yes, repeatedly calling is Elizabeth a sweet girl and
Speaker 1: emphasizing how much he loved her. To the outsiders, his
Speaker 1: behavior seemed unusual. Tom later explained that he hadn't slept
Speaker 1: for days and was under extreme stress, so he just
Speaker 1: he just kind of focused on Elizabeth a lot in
Speaker 1: that and that was just a bit weird the way
Speaker 1: she's a weak girl.
Speaker 2: And because she's a fourteen year old, like calling her
Speaker 2: beautiful at the time sounded a bit creepy.
Speaker 1: Again, in the documentary does talk about it is I
Speaker 1: was just so stressed, and you know, he was in
Speaker 1: a world of her as at that time.
Speaker 2: So spoiler spoiler alert, it wasn't him.
Speaker 1: No, it wasn't him. But at one point human remains
Speaker 1: were discovered, but they did not belong to Elizabeth.
Speaker 2: Oh god, oh god, imagine that moment.
Speaker 1: Despite the setbacks and false leads, the family never gave
Speaker 1: up hope. All of the brothers of Ed's underwent polygraphs tests,
Speaker 1: which ultimately came back inconclusive. Given the immense pressure they
Speaker 1: were under, the shock, the grief, the lack of sleep,
Speaker 1: it all seems pretty unsurprising. Course, the Smart family questioned
Speaker 1: the validity of the tests, pointing out that the sessions
Speaker 1: lasted for hours and were conducted while they were exhausted
Speaker 1: and highly stressed. In the end, the brothers were officially
Speaker 1: ruled out.
Speaker 2: Oh thank god.
Speaker 1: During this time, Mary Catherine felt profoundly isolated. Police asked
Speaker 1: that she not speak to anyone in order to preserve
Speaker 1: her memory of that night. Oh she's nine, leaving her
Speaker 1: alone in a room for around nine hours. She wasn't
Speaker 1: allowed to watch television or even talk to her parents.
Speaker 2: I feel like, I mean, I don't know, don't know
Speaker 2: psychology or police tactics or child psychology or anything, but
Speaker 2: as a layman, I would think.
Speaker 1: It seems very cruel.
Speaker 2: It's cruel, but that I also kind of look at
Speaker 2: that and go, that could kind of convince a child
Speaker 2: to go, I'll just say something said, they let me go.
Speaker 1: Exactly, And I think that's when you get a lot
Speaker 1: of false confessions and things. Yeah. Eventually officers permitted her
Speaker 1: grandma's sit with her. Investigators repeatedly interviewed Mary Catherine an
Speaker 1: even attempted hypnosis, but she was never able to identify
Speaker 1: the intruder by name. But that's not little girl. Still,
Speaker 1: other suspects emerged. A local milkman reported seeing a suspicious
Speaker 1: man a few blocks from the Smart family home. That
Speaker 1: individual was identified as twenty six year old Brett Michael Edwards,
Speaker 1: who was already known to police due to an outstanding
Speaker 1: warrant for fraud and for assaulting a police officer the
Speaker 1: previous month. However, after questioning, investigators ruled him out. The
Speaker 1: physical description simply didn't match. Edwards was far taller and
Speaker 1: heavier than the man described by Mary Catherine.
Speaker 2: God has so much pressure on Mary Catherine's memory.
Speaker 1: It's all on that. Really, there's no evidence. Lead investigator
Speaker 1: Mick Fennety was able to soon find their next suspect.
Speaker 1: The Smart family were having renovations on their home, and
Speaker 1: under the list of contractors was a man by the
Speaker 1: name of Richard Reesi. He had a criminal record including
Speaker 1: burglary an attempted homicide, so no surprises there that some
Speaker 1: alarm bells started ringing. There was some kind of blow
Speaker 1: up at one point between Richard, who was a contractor
Speaker 1: on the house at the time, and a trade yeah
Speaker 1: at the house one day over money, and after this
Speaker 1: Lowest reported that had she had stolen jewelry, so it
Speaker 1: was like where are they? These items were actually later
Speaker 1: recovered at Richard's house, So the theory was that Richard
Speaker 1: knew the inside of the Smart family home pretty well
Speaker 1: since he had actually worked.
Speaker 2: There and potentially had beef with the dun.
Speaker 1: And this plan was to break in and steal jewelry,
Speaker 1: but then he realized that Elizabeth had seen him and
Speaker 1: that she would identify him, so he took Elizabeth to
Speaker 1: cover it up. While in custody, Richard admitted to stealing
Speaker 1: from the Smart family home and acknowledged that he had
Speaker 1: learned about Elizabeth's kidnapping through the news. He was adamant, however,
Speaker 1: that he had nothing to do with the disappearance. During
Speaker 1: police interviews, Richard grew increasing increasingly angry and distressed. He
Speaker 1: insisted the real perpetrator was still out there and repeatedly
Speaker 1: denied any involvement. Despite this, investigators became convinced they had
Speaker 1: their guilty man case closed in their minds. But according
Speaker 1: to the only eyewitnesses, Mary Catherine, Richard was not the
Speaker 1: man that they were looking for. Richard's face was actually
Speaker 1: on TV on the news at the time released they released, yeah,
Speaker 1: that he was a suspect, and Mary Catherine turned to
Speaker 1: her dad and said, it wasn't him. Why do they
Speaker 1: have him?
Speaker 2: But didn't she not see his face?
Speaker 1: Yeah? But she knew his voice.
Speaker 2: He was a training in the You assume it's not
Speaker 2: him if you're.
Speaker 1: Saying this, yeah, yeah, no, no, no, So she knew right
Speaker 1: away it wasn't him. Wow, Okay, okay, the investigators the investigating.
Speaker 1: The investigation kind of continued after that, but you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't as thorough because they thought they had.
Speaker 2: Their Yeah okay, Well you hear about that a lot,
Speaker 2: don't you, Where people say they had all their eggs.
Speaker 1: In one basket exactly because of that.
Speaker 2: Oh god, it was almost if.
Speaker 1: You're going to pin it on him no matter what.
Speaker 1: Then on July twenty fourth, something chilling happened.
Speaker 2: July twenty fourth, So that's like, what kind of almost Yeah?
Speaker 1: What's that like? Yeah, I mean nearly two months later, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth's cousin woke in the night to a loud bang.
Speaker 1: Moments later, she saw a knife cutting through her window screen.
Speaker 1: She screamed, and the intruder fled. When the police arrived,
Speaker 1: they found a cut screen and two chairs positioned outside
Speaker 1: the window, just as they had seen at the Smart
Speaker 1: family home. Was it a copycat, a prank? The detail
Speaker 1: about the chairs had never been released publicly, strongly suggesting
Speaker 1: it was the same person, but police remained fixated on
Speaker 1: Richard Reesi. Investigators noted significant mileage on his carver night
Speaker 1: of the abduction, and even offered him immunity for unrelated
Speaker 1: crimes if he would explain it. Richard refused.
Speaker 2: I mean, what's the point offering immunity for other crimes,
Speaker 2: because if you're done for.
Speaker 1: Exactly As time passed, pressure mounted, but he continued to
Speaker 1: deny any involvement over and over again until the day
Speaker 1: he died, just two months after Elizabeth's disappearance. Oh shit.
Speaker 1: In August two thousand and two, while being held at
Speaker 1: Utah State Prison, Reese suffered a sudden brain hemorrhage and
Speaker 1: collapsed in his cell. He was rushed to hospital and
Speaker 1: placed in a coma. Spite emergency surgery, doctors determined his
Speaker 1: brain injuries were irreversible. On August thirty, two thousand and.
Speaker 2: Two, that's her birthday, is.
Speaker 1: Reese's family made the decision to remove him from life support.
Speaker 1: He died at the age of forty eight.
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. I just said, excitedly, that's my birthday.
Speaker 2: This is sorry, that's awful.
Speaker 1: It has since been suggested that the extreme stress he
Speaker 1: was under contributed significantly to his death. In fact, his widow,
Speaker 1: Angela Reese, publicly defended him after his death, saying he
Speaker 1: was wrongly suspected and known by family and friends as
Speaker 1: a kind person.
Speaker 2: Well, hang on, didn't you see he was done for
Speaker 2: ten exactly?
Speaker 1: But you know that he was under this for I
Speaker 1: think I think I put an undue amount of stress
Speaker 1: on him.
Speaker 2: Okay.
Speaker 1: She spoke about the toll the intense scrutiny took.
Speaker 2: On him, which of course it would if you're not
Speaker 2: guilty of something. But yeah, still tried to kill someone
Speaker 2: another time.
Speaker 1: Well, yes, yeah. Years later, some reports noted that Reese's
Speaker 1: widow struggled emotionally after his death, including a reported suicide
Speaker 1: attempt many years later, and I think she actually did
Speaker 1: end up taking her own life, although details about her
Speaker 1: passing are limited through these accounts. In later years, Reese
Speaker 1: has sometimes been referred to indiscussions about investigative errors and
Speaker 1: the emotional cost of high profile cases, but official records
Speaker 1: and police conclusions confirmed that his death ended any direct
Speaker 1: link he might have had to Elizabeth Smart's actual abduction,
Speaker 1: So it was ruled out obviously that he wasn't the
Speaker 1: person after all of that.
Speaker 2: Sorry, what do you mean after he died?
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, because.
Speaker 2: He died or just they ended up clearing him.
Speaker 1: They ended up clearing him, but yeah, but it was
Speaker 1: sadly too late. Elizabeth's family did not believe that Richard
Speaker 1: Reese was ever the person.
Speaker 2: Because they just had so much faith in their daughter's recounted.
Speaker 1: Exactly one day in October two thousand and two. It October,
Speaker 1: Mary Catherine approached her dad and said she knew who
Speaker 1: it was. She knew who had taken Elizabeth.
Speaker 4: What?
Speaker 1: Yeh? Mary? Catherine was reading a copy of the Guinness
Speaker 1: Book of World Records.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, two thousand and two is the Guinness
Speaker 2: World Records book that I have. It was something like,
Speaker 2: I don't know if it was that age, because I'm
Speaker 2: about the same age as Elizabeth. I don't know if
Speaker 2: it's that age or if it's maybe just that time
Speaker 2: in the world. I was upset, like, that's all I
Speaker 2: wanted for Christmas.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's so cooled. Mary Catherine was actually reading a
Speaker 1: book of Guinness World Records when the memory suddenly came
Speaker 1: rushing back. What she realized She had recognized the voice
Speaker 1: that night, and now at last she could put a
Speaker 1: name to it. She turned to her father and said,
Speaker 1: Emmanuel ed. Her father was confused of he didn't immediately
Speaker 1: recall anyone by the name of Emmanuel. Then it hit
Speaker 1: him and the realization stunned him. He called his brother
Speaker 1: and told him what Mary Catherine had said. His brother
Speaker 1: was equally shocked. Mary Catherine had remembered a name, but
Speaker 1: the question remained, who was Emmanuel?
Speaker 2: How would you just remember the name? Had she seen
Speaker 2: that name in the.
Speaker 1: Book memory memory? Yeah, either from zinga faith, I don't
Speaker 1: know a name in the book or whatever it was.
Speaker 1: She just triggered, you know how that can work. It's
Speaker 1: whatever whatever triggers your brain that in that time, Manuel
Speaker 1: was a homeless, deeply religious preacher who had previously been
Speaker 1: to the Smart's family home. One of the out of kindness,
Speaker 1: Lois had given him some money and offered him some
Speaker 1: renovation jobs, believing he was harmless and wanting to give
Speaker 1: him an opportunity. Mary Catherine had only encountered him briefly,
Speaker 1: but his voice had somehow stayed with her. Despite this revelation,
Speaker 1: police continued to focus their attention on Richard Reesi at
Speaker 1: the time that this came up, and largely dismissed Emmanuel
Speaker 1: as a serious suspect.
Speaker 2: So they were kind of saying it was Richard Reese.
Speaker 2: That almost makes it even easier.
Speaker 1: Exactly to pin it on him. Months later, with no
Speaker 1: movement from investigators on this lead, the family took matters
Speaker 1: into their own hands. Believing their daughter, they went to
Speaker 1: the media pleading for public help.
Speaker 2: The family went to the media.
Speaker 1: A sketch was released, though it wasn't an exact likeness.
Speaker 1: Emmanuel's appearance had changed significantly since then, and Emmanuel turned
Speaker 1: out it wasn't even his real name.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Still, the description of a wandering religious preacher caught the
Speaker 1: attention of a crucial person, his sister, Emmanuel. System she
Speaker 1: recognized him as Brian David Mitchell.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, my god, my god. Hang on, wait,
Speaker 2: So this homeless preacher has rocked up smart stool one day,
Speaker 2: and then being a beautiful family gave him money and
Speaker 2: offered him some odd jobs to give him money.
Speaker 1: Yes, and then.
Speaker 2: Mary Catherine has remembered his voice and his name has
Speaker 2: popped into her head one day. Yep, And so they've gone.
Speaker 2: We believe the family has gone. We believe it's this
Speaker 2: person called Emmanuel. Yes, done a sketch of this person
Speaker 2: they knew as Emmanuel. That sketch has gone on the news,
Speaker 2: and Emmanuel's sister has seen it and called police and said,
Speaker 2: he's not a Manuel.
Speaker 1: His Ye, his name is Brian David Mitchell.
Speaker 2: Holy shit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So it's actually Bonker's the way this happened, because
Speaker 1: that's so unheard of to ever happen like that.
Speaker 2: It could also be like that could be a false memory.
Speaker 1: That's so exactly exactly, But I don't think he had
Speaker 1: gone to the house to ask for work. I think
Speaker 1: she had actually seen him out preaching, and I can't
Speaker 1: asked him back. Brian had grown up in a strict
Speaker 1: religious household. From a young age, he displayed troubling sexual
Speaker 1: behaviors that followed him into adult boy.
Speaker 2: No, I don't like where this is going.
Speaker 1: He began abusing substances, and while in counseling, met a
Speaker 1: woman named Wander Elaine Barzi, whom he later married. Together,
Speaker 1: they embraced extreme religious beliefs. Brian rejected mainstream church teachings
Speaker 1: and began to see himself as a savior, one who
Speaker 1: believed he was entitled to take multiple wives.
Speaker 2: Oh, Sammy, I don't like where this is going. I
Speaker 2: would like to end it here.
Speaker 1: He and Wander adopted a cult like appearance, often wearing
Speaker 1: white robes, with Wander covering her face. Because of his
Speaker 1: striking appearance, Brian was relatively easy to spot.
Speaker 2: What did he look like?
Speaker 1: Well, he had hit a big beard and he had
Speaker 1: a white robe, like white robe yeah one, so yeah,
Speaker 1: so act.
Speaker 2: You just said them all long white robes And I'm
Speaker 2: just like, why was he?
Speaker 1: Yeah? Yeah, yeah, I don't understand. Together they embraced it. Oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: so because of his yeah, the white robe and everything
Speaker 1: quite easier. Spot Reports of sightings actually flooded in at cafes, restaurants,
Speaker 1: and on city streets, but each lead ended in frustration.
Speaker 1: At one point, Brian even attended a house party to
Speaker 1: preach with him cool house buddy man. With him were
Speaker 1: Wander and a very young girl.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: One man at the party noticed the girl and tried
Speaker 1: to speak to her, but Brian abruptly shut him down,
Speaker 1: insisting she was not to be of dressed. Was she
Speaker 1: Brian's daughter or was she Elizabeth Smart?
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: As the weeks turned into months, Salt Lake City held
Speaker 1: its breath. Elizabeth face was everywhere on television screens, posters,
Speaker 1: and flies. Thousands of tips poured in. Everyone had to
Speaker 1: be followed, Everyone carried the fragile hope of finally bringing
Speaker 1: her home. As a search dragged on, psychological profiles were
Speaker 1: drawn up and investigators began asking the most painful question
Speaker 1: of all, was Elizabeth still alive? In truth, Elizabeth had
Speaker 1: been seen multiple times during her captivity. On one occasion,
Speaker 1: police officers encountered her in a public space a library.
Speaker 1: Brian Mitchell claimed she was his wife. Wait, actually her, Yeah,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth stood silent, paralyzed by fear of what would happen
Speaker 1: if she spoke. The officers accepted the explanation and let
Speaker 1: him go.
Speaker 2: And they didn't recognize her.
Speaker 1: No, she was actually wearing a robe and covered her
Speaker 1: face a lot of the time. Oh she The moment
Speaker 1: would haunt the investigators for years.
Speaker 2: Oh god, it would for your life.
Speaker 1: Days are After a sketch of the suspect was released,
Speaker 1: the San Diego Police Department arrested Brian Mitchell for breaking
Speaker 1: into a church at the time. Yeah, he appeared in
Speaker 1: court on charges related to property damage and was released.
Speaker 1: What At the time, San Diego authorities were unaware that
Speaker 1: a person of interest in a major abduction case in
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City.
Speaker 2: No, God, we hear about this so often, particularly in America.
Speaker 2: Feels like a thing.
Speaker 1: They just don't apartments.
Speaker 2: Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Later there was another sighting, this time again in Salt
Speaker 1: Lake City. The young girl with Mitchell was clearly disguised,
Speaker 1: wearing a gray wig and sunglasses. Mitchell provided false names
Speaker 1: for all three of the people.
Speaker 2: So him wandering, so him.
Speaker 1: Wander, and this person. Yeah, and officers immediately suspected something
Speaker 1: was wrong. One officer pulled out a flyer with Elizabeth
Speaker 1: photo and asked.
Speaker 2: If it was her, No, when she's there?
Speaker 1: Elizabeth denied it at first, insisting she wasn't a girl
Speaker 1: they were looking. She'd be missing for nine months.
Speaker 2: Oh no.
Speaker 1: When she was briefly alone with an officer, he continued
Speaker 1: to press her, gently, asking who she really was. Eventually
Speaker 1: Elizabeth gave her name. Even then, she worried what would
Speaker 1: happen to her captors. Oh my god, Elizabeth Smart had
Speaker 1: been found. Ah, Elizabeth was finally safe home and reunited
Speaker 1: with her family. What Only then did she begin to
Speaker 1: tell what happened?
Speaker 2: Oh, I don't think I want to know. So they
Speaker 2: were walking down the street, and then someone called in
Speaker 2: and said he looks like the guy on the news.
Speaker 1: On the night she was taken, Elizabeth was held at
Speaker 1: knight point by Brian. He forced her up into the
Speaker 1: mountains behind her family home. They walked for miles, climbing
Speaker 1: to the ridge and descending down the other side. In
Speaker 1: the documentary, Elizabeth later recalled repeatedly asking if he was
Speaker 1: going to rape and kill her. If she was, she
Speaker 1: hoped it would be close to home, so her parents
Speaker 1: would actually be able to find her.
Speaker 2: Don't she had that thought? That is absolutely horrendous, properent,
Speaker 2: that's harrowing.
Speaker 1: Brian eventually led her to a small grove of trees
Speaker 1: where he and his wife were living. A small clearing
Speaker 1: had been made with a tent pitch there. Inside, Elizabeth
Speaker 1: was forced to remove her clothes and was washed with
Speaker 1: a sponge as part of what Brian described as a
Speaker 1: cleansing ritual. She was then made to put on a
Speaker 1: white robe. She was brought before Brian, who told her
Speaker 1: they were now married and that she was his wife.
Speaker 1: He said the marriage would be consummated.
Speaker 2: No no, no, no no.
Speaker 1: That night, inside the tent, Elizabeth was sexually assaulted while
Speaker 1: being threatened. She later said she wished it would all
Speaker 1: end in that moment. In the Netflix documentary Kidnapped Elizabeth Smart,
Speaker 1: she speaks about how young and innocent she was at
Speaker 1: the time, only fourteen, with little understanding of sex or
Speaker 1: what was happening to her. From that point on, survival
Speaker 1: became her only goal. Elizabeth later explained that something inside
Speaker 1: her shifted. She would do whatever it took to stay alive.
Speaker 1: She followed orders, endured, and focused on outlasting her captors.
Speaker 2: Oh God, I just I can any of these stories
Speaker 2: I hear. I cannot imagine that strength.
Speaker 1: My God, day in, day out, not knowing when it's
Speaker 1: going to end. Brian David Mitchellan's partner Wanda Barzi, forced
Speaker 1: Elizabeth into kind of a nomadic existence, moving through foothills,
Speaker 1: sleeping raft and isolating her from the world. Mitchell used fear, religion,
Speaker 1: and ritual to maintain control, preaching a distorted belief system
Speaker 1: and convincing Elizabeth that escape would result in death hers
Speaker 1: and her families. She was renamed her identity, he was
Speaker 1: stripped away. Freedom flickered in front of her like a
Speaker 1: mirage time and time again, but reaching for it could
Speaker 1: mean death, not just for her, but for everyone she
Speaker 1: ever loved. Months past, leeds dried up, media attention faded,
Speaker 1: and the case edge closer to becoming a cold case.
Speaker 1: All the while Brian's plans grew darker. He spoke of
Speaker 1: taking other children as his wives, even Elizabeth's cousin, which
Speaker 1: he attempted to.
Speaker 2: Do so that was real.
Speaker 1: It was actually him, It was actually him. He'd even
Speaker 1: talked about returning for Mary Catherine, Elizabeth's younger sister. Behind
Speaker 1: the scenes, detectives remained deeply unsettled. The image of the
Speaker 1: roadman refused to leave them. Then came the call. At
Speaker 1: one point, Brian decided to leave Salt Lake City and
Speaker 1: traveled with them to San Diego. He begged for money
Speaker 1: to buy three bus tickets for all of them. While there,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth began to fear she would never be found. Drawing
Speaker 1: on extraordinary strength, she convinced Brian to return to Salt
Speaker 1: Lake City, telling him that God had spoken to her
Speaker 1: and said they needed to go back.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's so smart. Brian accepted this because
Speaker 2: she thought they'd be more likely to be recognized.
Speaker 1: Yea, praising her for finally embracing what he believed was
Speaker 1: his divine authority. So yeah, so he'd actually when he
Speaker 1: was in prison, so he got he was arrested in
Speaker 1: San Diego. And yeah, he was in prison for a
Speaker 1: few days and they had nothing to eat, nothing, and
Speaker 1: they were just Lawanda and her together, which is waiting
Speaker 1: for him to return.
Speaker 2: Oh my god. And how scared she must have been
Speaker 2: to not even like kind of take that opportunity to run.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, and she was quite malnourished and everything as well,
Speaker 1: like she'd never strength. When they returned, a sighting was
Speaker 1: reported a road man traveling with two women Elizabeth Smart
Speaker 1: had been found the nation exhaled.
Speaker 2: And they're just walking through the street. Yeah yeah, So
Speaker 2: he'd got this level of.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, quite delusional and believed he was
Speaker 1: the savior. So he's walking around in these robes and everything.
Speaker 1: It's just it's just nuts.
Speaker 2: And then she's Elizabeth has convinced him that she's now
Speaker 2: on the same pith.
Speaker 1: She understands what he's talking about. She's so smart and smart. Yeah,
Speaker 1: she goes, can we we need to go back to
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City And he was like, thank god, you're understanding.
Speaker 1: If that's the plan, we'll go there.
Speaker 2: And then he got confident enough he was walking a
Speaker 2: down the street.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well he was doing that anyway, like I mean,
Speaker 1: the whole time. He went to parties and stuff like
Speaker 1: it was. But the question lingered, how had it taken
Speaker 1: so long? How had she been seen and not saved?
Speaker 1: What harm had been done that could never be undone?
Speaker 1: Her rescue had closed one nightmare but opened another. Justice
Speaker 1: Justice would move slowly, unfolding in ways that were stranger
Speaker 1: and more painful than any one anticipated.
Speaker 2: Why this should be open and closed.
Speaker 1: Mitchell's behavior in court was erratic, theatrical, and deeply disturbing.
Speaker 1: Repeated competency are competency evaluations delayed the trial for years,
Speaker 1: Avenge because he couldn't talk in in normal ways, like
Speaker 1: when they interviewed him time and time again. He just
Speaker 1: talked about God and the Savior, and he wouldn't give
Speaker 1: any information because he was so delusional and was not
Speaker 1: a well person. Eventually, Elizabeth testified, coming face to face
Speaker 1: with the man who had stolen her childhood and her identity, that.
Speaker 2: Is so unfair that she was made to do that.
Speaker 1: And so strong, oh so strong. Her composure actually stunned
Speaker 1: the court room.
Speaker 2: Oh wow.
Speaker 1: She spoke clearly and courageously about her captors and the
Speaker 1: years of abuse that had become her life. Her parents,
Speaker 1: of course, stood by her.
Speaker 2: Years.
Speaker 1: Yeah well, I mean the abuse didn't like I mean,
Speaker 1: it lasted nine months, but the abuse and the yes, yeah, god,
Speaker 1: her whole life, Oh my god. Time had passed, memories
Speaker 1: had solidified, and hanging over the courtroom was a heavy question.
Speaker 1: Could justice still be delivered or had time already taken
Speaker 1: its toll?
Speaker 2: No, I don't understand any of these. Why is this
Speaker 2: not clear cut?
Speaker 1: He was so nuts and not fit to stand trial?
Speaker 2: Oh that are right?
Speaker 1: Okay, But Mitchell was ultimately convicted and sentenced to life
Speaker 1: in prison without the possibility of parole.
Speaker 2: So sorry, was the kind of question mark over it?
Speaker 2: Whether he was mentally unstable so couldn't be found guilty?
Speaker 1: That's right? Yeah. Wanda Barzi received a separate sentence after
Speaker 1: pleading guilty. Oh she did. Yeah, wow. Yeah. For the
Speaker 1: Smart family, the verdicts brought resolution, but not closure. The
Speaker 1: case may have closed on paper, but for Elizabeth Smart's
Speaker 1: survival was not the end of the story. She emerged
Speaker 1: not only as a survivor, but as an advocate, challenging
Speaker 1: cultural myths about victimhood, silence, and shame, and redefining what
Speaker 1: survival truly means. Her voice became louder, and the fear
Speaker 1: that once controlled her was gone. She founded the Elizabeth
Speaker 1: Smart Foundation, helping to promote the National Amber Alert, the
Speaker 1: Adam Walsh Child Protection and Safety Act, and other legislation
Speaker 1: to help to prevent abductions in the future. She is
Speaker 1: actually a strong advocate for change.
Speaker 2: Oh what an incredible woman.
Speaker 1: The case reshaped how kidnappings were investigated, how victims were understood,
Speaker 1: and how near misses were analyzed. She attended Brigham Young University,
Speaker 1: studying music as a heart performance majoro. In twenty twelve,
Speaker 1: she married her husband, Matthew, and they now have two
Speaker 1: beautiful children together. She is an inspiration that there is
Speaker 1: life after tragedy. Elizabeth's parents, Ed and Lowis Co wrote
Speaker 1: a book about their trauma called Bringing Elizabeth Home, A
Speaker 1: Journey of Faith and Hope. The Kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart Shit.
Speaker 1: The kidnapping of Elizabeth Smart is remembered not only for
Speaker 1: its terror before, it's unlikely and unheard of ending. It's
Speaker 1: a story mark by systematic failures and extraordinary resilience, of
Speaker 1: how justice came periously close to slipping away, and how
Speaker 1: in the end a survivor ensured that that would not
Speaker 1: be the final word. The final word would in fact
Speaker 1: be her own. It's not just about captivity and escape,
Speaker 1: It's about what survives after unimaginable loss. She was taken
Speaker 1: in the dead of night, carried through fear, silence, and belief,
Speaker 1: twisted into nightmares. When she came home, the world wanted
Speaker 1: a neat ending, but trauma does not obey timelines. Her
Speaker 1: life became proof that survival is not a single moment
Speaker 1: of rescue, but a long crossing, like emerging from deep water,
Speaker 1: lungs burned, learning how to breathe again, heavy lungs almost
Speaker 1: impossible to breathe, and a heavier heart to carry with you.
Speaker 1: The cage was opened, but healing took years, and yet
Speaker 1: she strongly and bravely kept moving forward. In the end,
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart did not simply escape the wolf or outrun
Speaker 1: the darkness. She carried the weight of what was stolen
Speaker 1: and chose to live anyway, turning a story meant to
Speaker 1: end in silence into one that speaks loudly and forever
Speaker 1: for others. Some cases end with answers, and it gives
Speaker 1: family hope even today. She was found, but the girl
Speaker 1: who has taken never fully came home. Childhood and innocence
Speaker 1: were ripped away without warning. This one ends with a
Speaker 1: voice that would not be silenced, and that voice is
Speaker 1: Elizabeth Smart. The end. Oh my god.
Speaker 2: Oh I just I don't know what to think or feel.
Speaker 2: I know how I feel. What an incredibly strong and
Speaker 2: brave woman to be.
Speaker 1: Able to fourteen as well, to redirect your captor to
Speaker 1: say that, to go back to Salt Lake City that but.
Speaker 2: I mean even since as well too, to use that
Speaker 2: to then be an advocate, and I just what an
Speaker 2: incredible person And to then go on and you know,
Speaker 2: get married and have children, you know, and I hope
Speaker 2: that means she's got a lovely, happy life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, oh, I.
Speaker 2: Just this whole story is just.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, like it really does prove you
Speaker 1: know that you can, Like I mean that the tragedy
Speaker 1: in the trauma is such a huge part of it,
Speaker 1: but I kind of think that if your first sexual
Speaker 1: experience as well was right, imagine having like the level
Speaker 1: of not knowing anything about sex, not knowing anything about
Speaker 1: tenderness or love or whatever, and then actually having, you know,
Speaker 1: going on to having two kids and a partner, like
Speaker 1: the strength that she has to overcome everything daily and
Speaker 1: to just be in society like religion, belief, like all
Speaker 1: of that.
Speaker 2: Every go to bed, like how do you ever fall asleep?
Speaker 1: How do you feel safe in a place where you
Speaker 1: once felt safe.
Speaker 2: I know that this isn't the case, but right now
Speaker 2: I can't think of a kidnapping case that's not had
Speaker 2: a ransom or anything attached that's resulted in someone coming home.
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, And I remember they were kind of you know,
Speaker 1: the story was kind of likened early days before they
Speaker 1: found out anything to John Benet Ramsey. They were about
Speaker 1: that side job when you see somewhere in the house
Speaker 1: or whatever. Like they did think that.
Speaker 2: When you very first said they were treating the dad
Speaker 2: as a suspect, That's what I first thought of. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I can't I mean, tell me if I'm wrong,
Speaker 2: or I'll think of ones afterwards, but I can't think
Speaker 2: right now of a case of a child kidnapped that's
Speaker 2: then come home for ransom.
Speaker 1: And also like they walked, so they walked miles from
Speaker 1: the house to the woods, and at one point she
Speaker 1: was she could hear her name being cold, and she
Speaker 1: wanted to scream out. She wanted to do something, but
Speaker 1: she couldn't, And so they were searching around the area.
Speaker 1: They were, Yeah, I guess in that in that circumstance,
Speaker 1: because they thought, you know, the dogs actually found the trail.
Speaker 1: You know, the dogs found the trail, and then they thought, oh, no,
Speaker 1: it's ended here or something, because obviously it went into
Speaker 1: the woods. But maybe the scent broke or something or
Speaker 1: whatever it was.
Speaker 2: Maybe that's when they bathed her and changed her.
Speaker 1: Perhaps, Yeah, but like the dogs lost the sense, so
Speaker 1: they thought, oh were cars taken aways? But the dogs
Speaker 1: were like onto the dogs, like, no, she's here, she's here,
Speaker 1: And if they kept going they would have found her.
Speaker 1: But they would walk miles through the woods to find her.
Speaker 2: But yeah, okay, so I have some questions why her.
Speaker 1: The only explanation really is that he met her and
Speaker 1: saw her.
Speaker 2: Just got a fascination with her or something.
Speaker 1: Oh god.
Speaker 2: Another question is.
Speaker 1: I've been well? Thank you?
Speaker 2: Have you been well?
Speaker 1: Well?
Speaker 2: I don't know. This probably was an answered if he
Speaker 2: rapid fire, sorry, if he had, if he pleaded not guilty,
Speaker 2: I suppose. We probably don't know. But did he ever
Speaker 2: explain whether he was looking for a wife and chows her,
Speaker 2: or if he met her and got a fascination with her.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't Yeah, please please write in
Speaker 1: if you know that he was looking for wives. He
Speaker 1: was looking, he was going, that's why I went to
Speaker 1: the cousin's house. Like he was. He was going to
Speaker 1: take as many women as he wanted.
Speaker 2: Another question, wander did she end up pleading guilt, Like,
Speaker 2: did she kind of come out and say I was
Speaker 2: brainwashed as well, and I was coerced.
Speaker 1: I don't know. I think she was brainwashed, but she
Speaker 1: also went along with his belief I think kind of
Speaker 1: fell in love with him for his savior like beliefs.
Speaker 2: If she pleaded guilty, that.
Speaker 1: It kind of means she's napped out of it, doesn't it. Yes?
Speaker 2: But also, I mean we've talked about like Fred and
Speaker 2: Rosemary West and like the Barbie and Ken Killers, the
Speaker 2: females in both of those stories ended up saying I'm
Speaker 2: not guilty because I was coerced and brain life, And
Speaker 2: if she's pleaded guilty, that kind of I mean that
Speaker 2: goes against at least with those two.
Speaker 1: Sure, Yeah, I don't really know. I found it really interesting.
Speaker 1: I didn't want to go into too many of the
Speaker 1: details of like the those two because I didn't really
Speaker 1: want to talk about those two so much, But more
Speaker 1: about Elizabeth because I just think, you know, her story
Speaker 1: is quite incredible, and also Mary Catherine. Like you think
Speaker 1: about Mary Catherine, you go, holy shit. Her younger sister
Speaker 1: nine years old that one day just went I know
Speaker 1: who it.
Speaker 2: Was, and that her family believed her wholeheartedly. Yeah, because
Speaker 2: far out there, like the memory of a nine year old,
Speaker 2: Like we were saying, it could be that she's just thought,
Speaker 2: I just need to say someone so they stop asking me,
Speaker 2: or so I look. How incredible for her to have
Speaker 2: remembered that, but also for them to go, yes, we
Speaker 2: are believing you.
Speaker 1: Yes, Yeah, And it's just such an unheard of story
Speaker 1: to be that she comes back nine months later, and
Speaker 1: you know, it just has to Like there's footage of
Speaker 1: her when she says her dad for the first time,
Speaker 1: you know, and it's heartbreaking. That's in the documentary. The
Speaker 1: documentary is worth watching. It's not the best documentary for time,
Speaker 1: but it's interesting to watch.
Speaker 2: Is she in it?
Speaker 1: Yes, she's wow. Yes, that's what's incredible about it. She's
Speaker 1: interviewed Mary Catherine's interviewed in her Dad. Her mum is
Speaker 1: not interviewed in it. But I think she's kind of
Speaker 1: stepped away as far as I know, she's kind of
Speaker 1: stepped away from media and everything.
Speaker 2: I did find it interesting when you said the mom
Speaker 2: and dad wrote wrote a book about their experience. Yeah,
Speaker 2: you know, people have their ways of healing. But that
Speaker 2: makes me feel a little bit icky about like, let's
Speaker 2: use our daughter's.
Speaker 1: You know, you know, Elizabeth is an advocate, you help
Speaker 1: with the book, you know. Yeah, so you know there's
Speaker 1: a photo of those three on the front, like now,
Speaker 1: so it's like, yeah, I think I think it was
Speaker 1: a way of them talking about and that might.
Speaker 2: Be a way of them getting out their feelings and
Speaker 2: healing Exactually, yeah, I just always feel just a little
Speaker 2: bit icky when people profit off something awful that's happened
Speaker 2: not too mean wealth.
Speaker 1: So no, that's wrong.
Speaker 2: I was going to say not to them because happened
Speaker 2: to Elizabeth, but of course happened to them. Yeah, I
Speaker 2: feel like she's the advocate. I don't know, it just
Speaker 2: makes me feel a little bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah.
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, they all reports are a great
Speaker 1: family and they're really supportive and everything. So they were
Speaker 1: with her for the whole thing. I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: they've written this book with her about experience to promote.
Speaker 2: It also could be very much for their healing as well.
Speaker 1: Yeah, well I imagine those two like and also like the
Speaker 1: fact that it was turned inwardly so quickly, and it
Speaker 1: was like the dad and his brothers are the ones
Speaker 1: to blame. Tom and day, they're the ones to blame,
Speaker 1: Like it seems like it was really they were pointing
Speaker 1: the fingers at them until they you know, racy, and
Speaker 1: then they kind of went, no, no, he's the guy.
Speaker 1: He's the guy.
Speaker 2: And then which like it kind of does sound it
Speaker 2: did sound like it was.
Speaker 1: Oh exactly, and the fact that it was.
Speaker 2: A random, fucking crazy ass could person that's never where
Speaker 2: you would think, like, that's not where you would put
Speaker 2: your mind.
Speaker 1: But like a contractor in the house that had been
Speaker 1: he'd like, you know, attempted homicide.
Speaker 2: And yeah, exactly, of course he would.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and burglary like they're going, okay, you know, totally
Speaker 1: checks out. So you can kind of see where the
Speaker 1: police were going with that. And then they found like
Speaker 1: the stolen jewelry in the house from oh my god,
Speaker 1: that easily goes together, but it feels like the scene
Speaker 1: was just contaminated. Early on, there would have been fingerprints
Speaker 1: probably sure, yeah, but they couldn't get any for some reason.
Speaker 1: It was too contaminated to find that. But that's the
Speaker 1: sad thing about cases like that, where you go, oh,
Speaker 1: it could have been solved so much easier, but you know, sometimes.
Speaker 2: It was solved it was sold, It was sold, had
Speaker 2: a nice life just trauma. Yea far out what a store?
Speaker 1: I know, I know. If you want to tell us
Speaker 1: anything that you know about this story, some extra information,
Speaker 1: please do right into Sammy at just Another Company dot
Speaker 1: com dot au. You can leave us a voicemail. We
Speaker 1: love those. The website is in the show notes below.
Speaker 1: Can people follow us your love?
Speaker 2: Yeah they can on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at not
Speaker 2: Another Crime.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, leave us a five star rating, Leave us
Speaker 1: a five stars. The more you share this podcast and
Speaker 1: get it out there, the more it helps us as beautiful,
Speaker 1: beautiful people this world. And we are excuse me, are
Speaker 1: you ready for the mail bag section?
Speaker 2: I am becoming really quickly, Pee, of course.
Speaker 1: You can, lovely girl, Thank you for soon. This is
Speaker 1: the mail bag you're ready for this? This one comes
Speaker 1: from Katie. Just a very quick email today, Cane. He says,
Speaker 1: my ex boss is called Kenyon. That is all love
Speaker 1: the Body x x action.
Speaker 2: Hey go to that break because in the Clutter Family
Speaker 2: Murder we said I never heard the name Kenyan.
Speaker 1: Before Kenyon before. This email comes from Kinie. Hi, guys,
Speaker 1: I've just finished the anniversary episode with National Treasure, Myth
Speaker 1: and the wonderful Oliver Clark. I'm a bit behind because
Speaker 1: school holidays means kids in the car and I don't
Speaker 1: like podcast Little Freaks, not because we're talking.
Speaker 2: About crimes and.
Speaker 1: I usually listen in the car. But the comments about
Speaker 1: Digs meant I had to watch the YouTube version, and
Speaker 1: I'm so glad I did. There's just another element of
Speaker 1: something when you watch. What a great plug for the
Speaker 1: YouTube channel. It's just a shame I can't watch while
Speaker 1: I'm driving. Well, the police don't seem to like it.
Speaker 2: You'll be on a crime episode if you do that.
Speaker 1: Anyway. You asked about which guests are our favorites, and
Speaker 1: I have to say Myth and Oliver are definitely two
Speaker 1: of them. Please have them on as much as you can.
Speaker 1: But to be honest, I can't think of too many
Speaker 1: episodes where I haven't enjoyed the guests, although I didn't
Speaker 1: like the Best Dead one for some reason, maybe because
Speaker 1: I had no idea of the story and just didn't
Speaker 1: get it fair enough. If you didn't fair enough, you
Speaker 1: guys are very good at picking your guest. I really
Speaker 1: do like Scott Williams episodes, but I had to ask
Speaker 1: who is he? At first I thought he was the
Speaker 1: mister ordinary guy, but he's got a different name. Where
Speaker 1: did Scott come from? While I'm asking questions? Can I
Speaker 1: ask you how you two met? I can't remember if
Speaker 1: you have explained the origin of your friendship. I wanted
Speaker 1: to say as well that I love the longer episodes.
Speaker 1: I liked the backstory in little details that we get
Speaker 1: with the longer episodes. You also asked which kinds of
Speaker 1: episodes we liked best, whether it's the gory ones or
Speaker 1: the highest financial whatever else crimes. Personally, I like the
Speaker 1: stories where there's a human background story, which unfortunately usually
Speaker 1: comes with the grizzly murder stories. There's not usually not
Speaker 1: much of a personal story with the highest financial crimes
Speaker 1: or pig wars. Sama, I hope you'll sleeping better these days.
Speaker 1: Did you find a white noise that works for you?
Speaker 1: Keep up the good work and here's to many more
Speaker 1: podcast birthdays, Kylie.
Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, Kylie, that's.
Speaker 1: Such a thoughtful, wonderful email to come through, beautiful internet letter. Firstly,
Speaker 1: I am sleeping a little bit better. I have got
Speaker 1: rain sounds, I've got all this stuff, Kylie and it's great.
Speaker 1: I've got the white Noise at which I absolutely love,
Speaker 1: and I've got these aren't these gummies that I have
Speaker 1: at nighttime and they make me feel so much better,
Speaker 1: just CBD gummies. And they are so so with their
Speaker 1: Central Business District gummies. They are so good city gummies.
Speaker 1: They are so good for me, they really if I
Speaker 1: take them about an hour before I go to bed,
Speaker 1: they are just so good. They knocked me out. And
Speaker 1: then I don't like melatonin so much because they make
Speaker 1: me a bit groggy in the morning. Okay, but but god, kylie,
Speaker 1: these goddamn gummies. Oh, chuck your link if you want to.
Speaker 1: But yes, so Scott Williams is will pat So. That
Speaker 1: was his pseudonym when he was writing books.
Speaker 2: He so, Yes, he was the mister ordinary guy he wrote.
Speaker 2: He wrote a book called Mister Ordinary Goes to Jail.
Speaker 2: We had him on an episode where he told that story.
Speaker 2: So he went to jail for fraud, and he tells
Speaker 2: that story about what he did, what he learned, and
Speaker 2: who he has become since. What he didn't say in
Speaker 2: that episode in who He's become since? Was his real
Speaker 2: name he wrote under under a pseudonym.
Speaker 1: He changed his wife as well.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, we're not by de Bault. Our listeners loved him,
Speaker 2: We loved him, and he loved being part of the pod.
Speaker 2: So he actually asked if he could come back and
Speaker 2: tell us a story. And as you now know, he's
Speaker 2: come back and done that many many times. And he
Speaker 2: has said that he felt like a fraud once again
Speaker 2: in still going under his writing pseudonym name, so we're
Speaker 2: now calling him his real name, Williams. So yes, it
Speaker 2: is the mister ordinary guy. But if you'd missed the
Speaker 2: episode where he revealed that that would be very confusing.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely. And also we met through a mutual friend
Speaker 1: called Bill.
Speaker 2: We and if you've listened to every episode, Bill is
Speaker 2: the one who did the Toy World closing call in
Speaker 2: the episode about the roof mat.
Speaker 1: Yes he did. But yeah, we were introduced by a
Speaker 1: mutual friend who kept saying you've got to meet, You're
Speaker 1: going to meet, You're going to meet, and then finally
Speaker 1: just put us in a text exchange together and said
Speaker 1: you two have to meet. I'm making it happen. And
Speaker 1: Georgia came on a podcast that I did are called Confessions,
Speaker 1: and we met then and then hit it off and
Speaker 1: have been close knit ever.
Speaker 2: Goddamn it was within five minutes we were like, goddamn it,
Speaker 2: Bill was right. Do love each other. And one of
Speaker 2: the first conversations was when you introduced me to your
Speaker 2: dog and said his name is Missy Diggins. I said,
Speaker 2: my cat's name is Poudry, hepburn and we're I think
Speaker 2: we're gonna be.
Speaker 1: Are you ready for this voicemail that comes from our
Speaker 1: good friend Hannah.
Speaker 2: Yes, Hi, Sammy.
Speaker 5: And Georgia, It's Hannah. I only started listening, maybe like
Speaker 5: a couple of months ago, but I've listened to so
Speaker 5: many of your episodes and I just listened to Sammy's
Speaker 5: Special Wives along Face.
Speaker 6: I have to say you got me quite emotional.
Speaker 1: At the end there.
Speaker 6: I think I'm struggling with a bit of a Paris
Speaker 6: social relations guys, but I feel like such a proud
Speaker 6: little sister of Sammy and both of yous. I just
Speaker 6: feel like I'm just sitting down with a couple of friends.
Speaker 6: And I just wanted to say that I absolutely loved
Speaker 6: the comedy Special and I hope that one day I
Speaker 6: can see you in person when you come to Sydney
Speaker 6: next And I really love the podcast, and you.
Speaker 1: Guys had a bit of drink to get up the.
Speaker 6: Courage, but yeah, I just wanted to say that I
Speaker 6: love you guys, and yeah, keep the good work.
Speaker 4: Hannah.
Speaker 2: You are the sweetest thing in the whole world.
Speaker 1: We've had a bit to drink as well, Hannah. Don't
Speaker 1: you worry about that ever, You're.
Speaker 2: The sweetest And can I say she's right. Your comedy
Speaker 2: special White the Long Face, which is available now on YouTube,
Speaker 2: is just the most beautiful show. It's so funny, but
Speaker 2: it's really touching and yeah, the end is emotional and
Speaker 2: I love that. Thank you, Hannah.
Speaker 1: I'm so glad you liked it. That's that's beautiful and
Speaker 1: absolutely in Sydney next time for sure. But yeah, it's
Speaker 1: so it's just so nice to hear that Hannah as well,
Speaker 1: Like we love hearing from people that like the podcast.
Speaker 1: And also when you feel like, you know, we're just
Speaker 1: putting an extra chair out for someone, that is the
Speaker 1: nicest compliment that we could have for the podcast. So
Speaker 1: we bloody love you. Thank you for getting the courage
Speaker 1: as well to send a voicemail. I knows people kind
Speaker 1: of feel a bit funny sometimes, like sending a voicemail. Ah,
Speaker 1: but just say you know it's your friends. We love it.
Speaker 1: We absolutely want to hear from you had it. That's
Speaker 1: beautiful that you got the courage to send that through.
Speaker 1: That's lovely, and thank you so much for that beautiful.
Speaker 1: The beautiful compliment about the show as well, and the
Speaker 1: plug and the goddamn blood we take care of the
Speaker 1: bugs comes from Danny l hi Gi and Semmi P.
Speaker 1: I was listening to The Button Man with Scott. It
Speaker 1: gives Boogeyman vibe, but I would definitely watch the Netflix
Speaker 1: doco after listening to Scott's haunting description of how it
Speaker 1: would look gives me chills. I live in Gippsland and
Speaker 1: I've heard about the Button Man and the idea of
Speaker 1: him haunts the hell out of me. But I also
Speaker 1: hope he is okay. After the Man's filled bushfires that
Speaker 1: went through recently, it's a confusing feeling. It's a big
Speaker 1: no thank you to hiking in the high Country for me.
Speaker 1: I'm a long time first time letter sender and I love, love,
Speaker 1: love the pod five stars all round. I'm a mom
Speaker 1: of three very busy boys, and I lost my stomach
Speaker 1: for true crime when I had kids. Your pod has
Speaker 1: reignited my ability to not only stomach but love true
Speaker 1: crime again. It also helps me cope through the parenting fatigue.
Speaker 1: Your chats and banter are the highlight of my week.
Speaker 1: I now follow Digs on socials. Digs love that, thank
Speaker 1: you so much, and I love him, especially the noisy
Speaker 1: contributions during the recording serious content. Also, he's been pretty
Speaker 1: quiet today.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I noticed that he's that loud, squeaky ass
Speaker 2: pig was sitting really obviously, so I hit it under
Speaker 2: the couch before.
Speaker 1: He brings back memories of our old boy Seth, who
Speaker 1: was a massive pup. Like Digs all attach a pick.
Speaker 1: He could have been Dig's smaller cousin. Love that I
Speaker 1: love I've I especially loved the updates on the Mushroom cookcase.
Speaker 1: I live in a town right near Morewell, in less
Speaker 1: than an hour from ling Gaffa, so very close to home.
Speaker 1: I don't think I could actually pick a fave episode.
Speaker 1: Keep the long ones coming, g They're so good. My
Speaker 1: recommendations were originally for the Russell Hill and Carol Clay
Speaker 1: High Country murders. However, with conviction being quash, it's a
Speaker 1: touchy one. So with that, I have two recommendations from
Speaker 1: the Gippsland region or hit me the Jared Levision Lovision
Speaker 1: murder in twenty twenty l ov I Son Lovison loves
Speaker 1: the Jared Loverston murder in twenty twenty, a Newborough man
Speaker 1: who disappeared in April twenty twenty and was then found
Speaker 1: in Moondara State Park partially decomposed. Not a black panther attack,
Speaker 1: she writes to me. He was known in my sister
Speaker 1: in law's friend group at school, so very close to home.
Speaker 1: We all followed a real time podcast by Rinn Nikomano
Speaker 1: during the search and investigation of his murder. Second recommendation
Speaker 1: is the nineteen ninety seven unsolved murder of thirteen month
Speaker 1: old Jaden Lesi from Louis, Victoria.
Speaker 2: I've started writing that one. Oh, I've actually started it.
Speaker 1: He disappeared whilst his mother's boyfriend was looking after him
Speaker 1: and was found six months later. Although it's probably one
Speaker 1: I won't be able to listen to. The child ones
Speaker 1: are too much for me, or sorry about the Lucy
Speaker 1: let Be one recently. It is a devastating case with
Speaker 1: a very sad and unsolved outcome. Thank you both for
Speaker 1: what you do. The respect you give the victims whilst
Speaker 1: making the content palatable is a real talent. I never
Speaker 1: wanted to end. Can't wait to celebrate one hundred years
Speaker 1: with you when it comes Mom, Danny and this is
Speaker 1: her beautiful boy.
Speaker 2: Sathy is such a funny name for a dog. By
Speaker 2: the way, show me, Oh my god, stop holding it
Speaker 2: back from me.
Speaker 1: Oh my god.
Speaker 2: He does look like a little dick.
Speaker 1: Well, I think he might be the same. Maybe he's
Speaker 1: kind of similar size to Diggs. He does look a
Speaker 1: bit smaller, but you're hugging right now.
Speaker 2: But yeah, daddy, So yes, I have started doing the
Speaker 2: Jade and Lescue one. I actually started writing it when
Speaker 2: I was in more Well for the Musha because I
Speaker 2: was driving past MOI every time. And you've reminded me
Speaker 2: that I haven't finished it, so i'll do that one soon.
Speaker 2: But also I would like to know where you're from.
Speaker 2: You don't have to tell us we don't from, yes,
Speaker 2: because Sammy's from South Gippsland and I lived inter Ralgon
Speaker 2: Free and Tragon and also my sister has I should
Speaker 2: have said that my family.
Speaker 1: Yes, there's a there's an area down there where you
Speaker 1: sometimes inhabits coord near him South. Yes, a beautiful part
Speaker 1: of the world. Do self a favor. Yes, this one
Speaker 1: comes from Johannah High. Sammy and Georgia love the podcast.
Speaker 1: I meantening for a while now as I've found this
Speaker 1: from Confessions, which I loved and went to the final
Speaker 1: live show which was hilarious. Thank you the best, Georgie.
Speaker 1: I just wanted to say I love that you love musicals.
Speaker 1: I'm a big musical fan myself, and my brag is
Speaker 1: that I saw Wicked in its very early days on
Speaker 1: Broadway in my first trip to New York.
Speaker 2: You better not say with Christian Jenny with than a dinner.
Speaker 1: It was amazing. Well, Janet, please do write in again
Speaker 1: and let us know about that. Anyway, just want to
Speaker 1: say I really enjoyed the Azaria and Lindy Chamberlain episode
Speaker 1: as it explored more than I already knew about the tragedy.
Speaker 1: How I really found out about the story originally was
Speaker 1: from a song by Australian folk singer and retired judge
Speaker 1: Judy Small, who wrote a song about it called Evil Angels,
Speaker 1: which is a fantastic song and yeah, expressing the outrage
Speaker 1: of her being accused and put in jail for a
Speaker 1: crime she didn't do. I also recently saw the movie
Speaker 1: Evil Angels but called a Cry in the Day Outside
Speaker 1: of Australia and New Zealand nineteen eighty eight Crime the
Speaker 1: Dark's interesting, isn't it.
Speaker 2: That's a better name Angels as well because they didn't
Speaker 2: do anything.
Speaker 1: No with Meryl Streep playing Lindy in which he does
Speaker 1: an extrain accent worth a watch if you haven't seen it.
Speaker 1: Love you guys, and keep up the great work. Ps
Speaker 1: for the record, I like the longer episodes as I
Speaker 1: listen on the weekends, mostly when I'm cleaning my apartment.
Speaker 1: Kind regards, Jo had a gun Jennaourtis say thank you
Speaker 1: so much for your lovely mention of convensions and for
Speaker 1: coming to the live show.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we love it because Sammy, you've actually just recently
Speaker 2: released another episode.
Speaker 1: Yes I have. And can I say at the time
Speaker 1: of recording, I'm about to record one with Christy will
Speaker 1: and Brown and Genevieve Morris.
Speaker 2: Stop at the two of the most wonderful women in
Speaker 2: the h goddamn world.
Speaker 1: Correct, correct? And so yeah, I'm going to do one
Speaker 1: a month for a bit. I'm actually doing some shows
Speaker 1: during the Melbourne International Comedy Festival. Two shows Will Anderson,
Speaker 1: Mith Warhurst and Joe Creesy con but for one of
Speaker 1: the shows, Christopher Hall, bron Lewis and I Believe Dave
Speaker 1: Hughsey Hughes Is the other guests. The other one is
Speaker 1: that wild that's world. I don't know.
Speaker 2: You are simply unstoppable.
Speaker 1: I cannot be stopped. Oh my god, an afternoon drink
Speaker 1: at the Melbourne Comedy Festival. It is so much fun
Speaker 1: just to come to comedy public have a drink. I'll
Speaker 1: be there. Come and have a drink with me. It's
Speaker 1: it's just a fun show because it's me reading Reddit
Speaker 1: confessions over a few drinks. It's fun. It's wild, and
Speaker 1: the guests are really loose because I know all the
Speaker 1: guests really well. That comes, so it's like apart from
Speaker 1: Husy but it's really we'll see you, but it's just
Speaker 1: a kind of a fun vibe. It'll be really fun.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, this one comes, Megan. We've got so
Speaker 1: many good letters Megan.
Speaker 7: Hello, Sammy g and Digs Meghan, longtime listener, second time speak.
Speaker 1: Perhaps I love you.
Speaker 8: I'll start by saying I was absolutely humiliated to realize
Speaker 8: on listening to the podcast that we weren't all sending
Speaker 8: speak pipes, speak pipes, speak pipes, taking voice recordings and
Speaker 8: then sending them.
Speaker 1: As an email attachment. Don't worry about it. I can't say, Luca,
Speaker 1: twenty six of us have to be doing a link
Speaker 1: in bio. I thought about sending the sun just on
Speaker 1: like a cat.
Speaker 7: Cassette who has the time?
Speaker 1: God, you're right anyway, just.
Speaker 7: This is not a this is not a podcast worthy
Speaker 7: of speak pipe as my one about the baby fingerprinting.
Speaker 1: Was apologies, yes this is not another.
Speaker 7: Reassurance speak pipe to you, Sammy to say that I
Speaker 7: was one of the five thousand. I think I was
Speaker 7: about number three thousand, five hundred.
Speaker 2: Watch the comedy special.
Speaker 9: Was absolutely loving it, enthralled in screen based coba, watching.
Speaker 1: It on my bed when it suddenly I just want
Speaker 1: to reassure you that I think all five thousand of.
Speaker 9: Those people would have done something similar to.
Speaker 1: What I did, which is.
Speaker 9: Immediately realized that it was obviously an error. It's sad
Speaker 9: that we couldn't immediately listen watch the rest of it, but.
Speaker 2: Obviously and did.
Speaker 1: Go back and watch the end. Absolutely worth it.
Speaker 9: I thought about emailing when it stopped abruptly, by.
Speaker 7: Given that three thousand people had come before me, I.
Speaker 2: Thought you'd probably already received an emails.
Speaker 7: So just a little reassurance that watching to the point
Speaker 7: where it cuts out was definitely strong.
Speaker 1: Enough motivations, oh little bit want to return. And I'm
Speaker 1: sure that all those people returned.
Speaker 9: Amazing, amazing show and yeah, devastating.
Speaker 1: There's there's a part two to this as well, which
Speaker 1: we should play before we talk. But I just love
Speaker 1: that so much, and it's heartwarming to know that people
Speaker 1: went back because there was a part of being Meggan
Speaker 1: that night that went.
Speaker 9: I am absolutely dying.
Speaker 10: That cut out abruptly.
Speaker 1: Different to the comedy, specially these.
Speaker 9: People got to the end of that speak I'm going
Speaker 9: to cut out abruptly. I don't think that they'd be
Speaker 9: I thought about starting again.
Speaker 7: But it's beautiful whatever, whatever, anyway, just I had finished. Anyway,
Speaker 7: what am I doing back here?
Speaker 9: Yeah, it must have been super devastating to realize that.
Speaker 1: Watched it.
Speaker 10: And then yeah, it was so the whole thing. But
Speaker 10: as she said, how heartening that five thousand people had
Speaker 10: watched that much of already. And I am relatively certain
Speaker 10: that like the that, like me, the rest of the
Speaker 10: people that had gone on to watching it so quickly
Speaker 10: absolutely would have returned to watch the rest of it.
Speaker 9: So yeah, that's all absolutely finishing properly.
Speaker 2: Oh Megan, you are so what about? Oh my god,
Speaker 2: that couldn't have been more perfect? And also, can I
Speaker 2: just say, I embarrass you It could not be more
Speaker 2: perfect Megan that you've said that, because it was. It
Speaker 2: was really devastating the night when the special came out
Speaker 2: and and it cut off. It was really devastating. And
Speaker 2: I have reassured Sammy with all conviction and belief that
Speaker 2: everyone who wanted to watch it will have come back
Speaker 2: and watched it again. Yeah. See, yeah, but I can
Speaker 2: say that and he won't believe me, but someone who
Speaker 2: actually did that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I appreciate it. Yeah, absolutely, I mean yeah, it
Speaker 1: was really devastating when I found out that it was
Speaker 1: because the thing was that it was all ready to
Speaker 1: go in November and it was already it was all finished,
Speaker 1: Megan as well, Like the whole special was there, and
Speaker 1: then it got pushed back and pushed back because other
Speaker 1: comedians brought out theres first, and I was like very
Speaker 1: patient about it. And everything, and then it was uploaded
Speaker 1: on the day and I was just like, oh wow,
Speaker 1: it's been sitting there for so long and it wasn't
Speaker 1: checked and it went up and then I didn't notice
Speaker 1: because I was like, oh, I don't want to know
Speaker 1: anything about it. I don't want to I just want
Speaker 1: to kind of sit back and hopefully people watch it
Speaker 1: or post about it. Comede Republic posted about it, and
Speaker 1: then it wasn't until I got a message to say,
Speaker 1: you know, why does it off luff halfway through, like
Speaker 1: halfway through a story. The other thing as well, is
Speaker 1: it's so funny that it goes for an hour and
Speaker 1: fifteen minutes because especial, like you know, it usually goes
Speaker 1: for fifty minutes, so and.
Speaker 2: Your show went for an hour, so you must have
Speaker 2: just been doing a lot more like Crown I was.
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just I just thought laughs were so big you
Speaker 2: had to pause for Lafe for like thirteen minutes, cold old,
Speaker 2: but it was.
Speaker 1: It was so it was so funny. It was just like,
Speaker 1: it's never really gone for an hour and fifteen minutes before,
Speaker 1: and so that was the only night that it did.
Speaker 1: And what I remember of that night as well is
Speaker 1: that there was a daylight savings clock that was on
Speaker 1: the thing and it was an hour behind. So I
Speaker 1: thought that I had gone way under, and so I
Speaker 1: kept going and look at the clog old shit, I've
Speaker 1: completely stuffed up the show. And then as I got off,
Speaker 1: I went, oh, no, I've gone way over. But but
Speaker 1: you know, it was totally fine with the venue. But
Speaker 1: it was. Yeah, it was just so interesting because the
Speaker 1: show was way longer than it usually is. And I
Speaker 1: don't know why that was. I looked at the show
Speaker 1: and I was like, there's nothing laugh But yeah, Megan,
Speaker 1: that actually means the world to me that you went
Speaker 1: back and watched it and also sent that voicemail confirming that,
Speaker 1: because when you see, like you know, five thousand people
Speaker 1: have watched it without an ending, and you go, oh no,
Speaker 1: those things lost yea, exactly exactly. So thank you for
Speaker 1: sending that in. And I just want to do this
Speaker 1: because this is this SENTI in a little while ago.
Speaker 1: But we were talking about your news reporter is making mistakes,
Speaker 1: yes a while ago, and Corey sent.
Speaker 11: This in five years old when he is ten siblings
Speaker 11: suddenly there because it's just so five years old when
Speaker 11: he is ten siblings.
Speaker 1: Suddenly goes by Corey. But it's just so funny when
Speaker 1: when news moments like that happen and people get too
Speaker 1: excited or too into it or have like an excited
Speaker 1: tone of voice, and then yeah, we we love moments
Speaker 1: like that. On August thirty, two thousand and two, that's
Speaker 1: our birthday, Reese's family made the decision to remove him
Speaker 1: from life support. He died at the age of forty eight.
Speaker 2: I'm really sorry. I just said excitedly, that's my birthday.
Speaker 2: This is sorry, that's awful. It happened a little bit
Speaker 2: when I had my snot take on.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah. But we sometimes do that as well in
Speaker 1: the podcast, where we.
Speaker 2: Laugh about something else and then we go back to.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, thank you as always people for leaving goddamn voicemails,
Speaker 1: leaving his digs Haven a little dreams.
Speaker 2: He's dreaming. He's laying up against me and he's having
Speaker 2: a big old dream. He's twitching and everything.
Speaker 1: But I've just got him stairs to get up for
Speaker 1: my bed. Because of his arthritis and hyptosplacier. He's now
Speaker 1: got stairs to get up and it is so funny.
Speaker 1: He mum and dad came over and he was showing
Speaker 1: them the stairs. Stop it. He was showing them off
Speaker 1: the stairs, showing off how could use Yeah, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was so cute.
Speaker 2: People usually get stairs for like they're like sausage dop.
Speaker 1: I know, hip displace you like he needs them. But
Speaker 1: it's so funny watching him get up the stairs. The
Speaker 1: big fim, you big fim. Well they're calling our digs
Speaker 1: of fim. I think it's so fast because that's how
Speaker 1: we talk. But he looks at the birds today. A
Speaker 1: bird was having a bird bath in his water ball
Speaker 1: and he's just looking at it. Gone, pen stiff, film,
Speaker 1: you're a pen stiff. But he wasn't. He didn't do
Speaker 1: anything about it because he never does. He just watch again,
Speaker 1: scary scary, He's gone, you pestiff, pen stiff.
Speaker 2: We're going to record an episode at my house soon.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, oh yeah, all right, So before we finish
Speaker 1: up today, let's do go down powdry p Yeah you remember,
Speaker 1: I remember because I know that you get upset when
Speaker 1: I start doing my wrap ups and everything before we
Speaker 1: get into that. So, g what is your pawdry peeve
Speaker 1: for today? Right? Yes?
Speaker 2: So you peep? Today is when online stores advertised. So
Speaker 2: you get like an Instagram or Facebook or like on
Speaker 2: the side of the news website page work, yes, pops
Speaker 2: up with like a specific product yeah, and you go,
Speaker 2: oh god, damn it, I do like that product. So
Speaker 2: you click on the link to the shop, and that
Speaker 2: product is not actually available to buy.
Speaker 1: Ah, yeah, okay, it's all sold out already.
Speaker 2: It's sold out already, or it's like an old style
Speaker 2: or something that's not even on the website anymore. And
Speaker 2: they've tricked you into going to their website because.
Speaker 1: They're tricky people.
Speaker 4: Do you know that?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I do know that.
Speaker 2: Now I put your people of it.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. I get really annoyed at people who
Speaker 1: walking walking, walking, walking walking, and then as soon as
Speaker 1: they get the escalator, they stand still.
Speaker 2: Escalators. I'm not for this is a Jerry Signfeld joke,
Speaker 2: but I'm not going to say right, but like he
Speaker 2: does a bit about it, the escalators are not just
Speaker 2: to stand on and be carried down just to make it.
Speaker 1: Faster and easier. And also at the airport when the
Speaker 1: travelator the people stand on them.
Speaker 2: It's not for a lift. It's not for a lift
Speaker 2: to the other end. It's just so you can get
Speaker 2: there faster, but.
Speaker 1: It's really annoying, like the trains in Melbourne, like when
Speaker 1: you're trying to get to the train quickly or out
Speaker 1: of the train station quickly.
Speaker 2: And rest escalator.
Speaker 1: It's like peak our standing for what do you hope
Speaker 1: to achieve by all of this?
Speaker 2: You can stand in a lift. I'll give you that.
Speaker 1: It is hard to walk up a lift, have a rest.
Speaker 2: It's hard to walk up an elevator. But you can
Speaker 2: walk up an escalator.
Speaker 1: And you can see their heads slowly coming up. It's
Speaker 1: so funny. Yeah, So that's my poetry. Goddamn peeve for
Speaker 1: this week. You simply must write in samit just another
Speaker 1: company dot com dot You simply must leave a voicemail.
Speaker 1: The links are below in the show notes, Love sim We.
Speaker 2: Must follow us on Instagram, TikTok and YouTube a not
Speaker 2: another crime podcast. You simply must leave us a five
Speaker 2: star rating and a five star review. And Sammy must
Speaker 2: simply thank Oliver Clark for doing the music, and Tams
Speaker 2: and Hayes for doing the artwork. And we simply must
Speaker 2: say good night and good luck, Oh my god.
Speaker 1: TikTok book talks by everybody else