1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:04,240 Speaker 1: I live by this really this really simple. I guess 2 00:00:04,680 --> 00:00:07,120 Speaker 1: analogy that I that I learned a while ago, and 3 00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:13,640 Speaker 1: it's it's one problem, three options, and one recommendation. So 4 00:00:14,080 --> 00:00:16,319 Speaker 1: if someone you know wants to meet me, one of 5 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:19,160 Speaker 1: my managers or it could could be, could be then 6 00:00:19,200 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 1: presented it to the broader leadership team. Then then we 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:25,680 Speaker 1: try and use that framework. So set up a problem, 8 00:00:26,040 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: set up three options, and then set up the recommendations. 9 00:00:29,360 --> 00:00:33,519 Speaker 1: So where you know where we're we're forcing ourselves through 10 00:00:33,520 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: a framework to have solution based conversations. 11 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:43,839 Speaker 2: Welcome to How I Work, a show about the tactics 12 00:00:43,920 --> 00:00:46,320 Speaker 2: used by leading innovators to get so much out of 13 00:00:46,360 --> 00:00:49,479 Speaker 2: their day. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm an 14 00:00:49,560 --> 00:00:53,479 Speaker 2: organizational psychologist, the CEO of Inventium, and I'm obsessed with 15 00:00:53,520 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: finding ways to optimize my work day. My guest today 16 00:00:57,800 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 2: is Pipper Hollise. Pipper was just thirty three when she 17 00:01:01,480 --> 00:01:05,400 Speaker 2: became the CEO of Ella Bashe. Elle Basche is one 18 00:01:05,480 --> 00:01:08,400 Speaker 2: of the leading skincare brands in Australia and has over 19 00:01:08,520 --> 00:01:12,280 Speaker 2: one hundred and fifty salents. And when Pipper is not 20 00:01:12,480 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: busy being CEO, she is the mum of two young 21 00:01:16,319 --> 00:01:19,440 Speaker 2: boys aged three and six, and has also just released 22 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:22,600 Speaker 2: her first book called Bold Moves, How to Stand Up, 23 00:01:22,680 --> 00:01:26,199 Speaker 2: Step Out and make your next Bold Move. I first 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:29,520 Speaker 2: met Pipper maybe seven or eight years ago when my 25 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:32,480 Speaker 2: company invent him worked with Ala Bache on an innovation 26 00:01:32,640 --> 00:01:35,960 Speaker 2: project and so I was very excited to have her 27 00:01:36,520 --> 00:01:40,919 Speaker 2: on the show as really one of Australia's leading female CEOs. 28 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:44,560 Speaker 2: So in this chat we talk about a bunch of things, 29 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 2: ranging from Pipper's trick to making meetings effective, to how 30 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:53,360 Speaker 2: she balances work with being a mum of two little 31 00:01:53,360 --> 00:01:56,680 Speaker 2: people tudor how she had to overcome a major case 32 00:01:56,760 --> 00:02:01,200 Speaker 2: of imposter syndrome when she first became CEO. So on 33 00:02:01,280 --> 00:02:07,000 Speaker 2: that note over to to find out about how she works. Piffer, 34 00:02:07,240 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 2: Welcome to the show. 35 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 3: Thank you, thanks for having me. Now, I want to. 36 00:02:11,880 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 2: Start off by talking about this concept called maker versus 37 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 2: manager time and I'm not sure if it's something that 38 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:20,360 Speaker 2: you're aware of, and I'll sort of describe it as 39 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: well for the benefit of listeners too. So the maker 40 00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,600 Speaker 2: versus manager time was something that Paul Graham, who's one 41 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,720 Speaker 2: of the founders of why Combinator, talked about and talked 42 00:02:29,720 --> 00:02:34,280 Speaker 2: about specifically with regard to people that are leading people 43 00:02:34,360 --> 00:02:36,400 Speaker 2: or managing people as part of what they do, but 44 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 2: they're also you know that there's also people that make things, 45 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,720 Speaker 2: like whether that be making a creative project or a 46 00:02:43,760 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 2: strategy or something digital, anything really and how the two 47 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,440 Speaker 2: like maker and manager time often don't go hand in hand. 48 00:02:52,520 --> 00:02:55,480 Speaker 2: So makers need, you know, often several hours to get 49 00:02:55,480 --> 00:02:58,440 Speaker 2: into the flow to make something, whereas manager's time tends 50 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,760 Speaker 2: to work in thirty sixty minute increments because that's how 51 00:03:01,800 --> 00:03:04,720 Speaker 2: long a meeting is. And you're just about to release 52 00:03:04,840 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 2: a book called Bold Moves, which will probably be out 53 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: by the time this podcast goes to air, and I 54 00:03:09,919 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 2: want to know how do you manage maker versus manager 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:16,959 Speaker 2: time in your world? As CEO of La Bashe. 56 00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:18,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, great question. 57 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:22,959 Speaker 1: So I think, Look, it's taken me a number of years, 58 00:03:23,200 --> 00:03:24,280 Speaker 1: if not decades, to. 59 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,520 Speaker 3: Find I guess, the rhythm and the flow that works 60 00:03:28,560 --> 00:03:28,840 Speaker 3: for me. 61 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 1: So I really use a simple model each year that 62 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 1: I try and set my year up by because that defines, 63 00:03:37,920 --> 00:03:41,520 Speaker 1: you know, my make versus manager time, and I guess 64 00:03:41,840 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: in the beginning of every year, I kind of clarify 65 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,920 Speaker 1: what I want out of the year and the vision 66 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 1: to make sure I get really excited about it and 67 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: energize by it. 68 00:03:53,360 --> 00:03:55,720 Speaker 2: And how do you do that, Like do you use 69 00:03:55,720 --> 00:03:58,680 Speaker 2: a framework to do that? Or certain questions that you 70 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,640 Speaker 2: ask yourself like what does what does that look like? 71 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a bit of a reflection time. 72 00:04:03,360 --> 00:04:05,880 Speaker 1: So it's looking back at the last year and kind 73 00:04:05,880 --> 00:04:10,200 Speaker 1: of going what worked, what didn't. It's then looking at, 74 00:04:11,560 --> 00:04:13,640 Speaker 1: you know, what I really want to get out of 75 00:04:13,640 --> 00:04:16,960 Speaker 1: this year, and you know, what does the business need 76 00:04:17,560 --> 00:04:21,159 Speaker 1: to get out of me. So I'll quite often go 77 00:04:21,480 --> 00:04:26,520 Speaker 1: and spend you know, a week or two educating myself 78 00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,520 Speaker 1: in January because I find if I lift my own 79 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: thought patterns and you know, vibrations, I bring it back 80 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: to the business. So I just I said, a really 81 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:41,280 Speaker 1: simple framework and vision. Then I make sure, you know, 82 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: do I have the right people around me to enable 83 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:48,920 Speaker 1: me to achieve my goals and my vision? And then 84 00:04:49,000 --> 00:04:52,599 Speaker 1: I get to the weekly and the daily actions in 85 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,360 Speaker 1: that year and really design out what that means, you know, 86 00:04:56,440 --> 00:04:58,880 Speaker 1: for the next fifty two weeks, I guess and bring 87 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,520 Speaker 1: it down to some really practical, practical daily task. 88 00:05:04,000 --> 00:05:05,800 Speaker 2: I want to, like now look at more of a 89 00:05:05,920 --> 00:05:09,039 Speaker 2: micro level So how how in a typical week or 90 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: even in a typical day are you managing or dividing 91 00:05:13,279 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: your manager time, because like, how many direct reports do 92 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:17,400 Speaker 2: you have as a CEO? 93 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:21,360 Speaker 1: I've got too many at the moments, so I've probably 94 00:05:21,400 --> 00:05:22,640 Speaker 1: got about ten at the moment. 95 00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,360 Speaker 2: Wow, Okay, So I want to know how how are 96 00:05:25,360 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 2: you sort of blocking out your your days or your 97 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 2: weeks when you're obviously spending time with your direct reports 98 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: and I imagine larger groups within the company versus your 99 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:39,719 Speaker 2: make of time where you might be designing the future 100 00:05:39,800 --> 00:05:42,440 Speaker 2: or working on a strategy, or you know, over the 101 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 2: last few months writing a book. So what what does 102 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:45,279 Speaker 2: that look like? 103 00:05:46,480 --> 00:05:48,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, so for me, you know, the mornings of my 104 00:05:48,920 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 1: maker time, that's when I feel really fresh. I've just 105 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:56,160 Speaker 1: woken up, and I literally, you know, probably block out 106 00:05:56,320 --> 00:05:58,520 Speaker 1: the first two hours of every day. And you know, 107 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:00,840 Speaker 1: if I've got something on such a writing a book, 108 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: I'll obviously you know, start start much earlier. So try 109 00:06:05,240 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: and do between you know, five point thirty and nine 110 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:11,719 Speaker 1: o'clock on something really creative or developing strategy or working 111 00:06:11,720 --> 00:06:15,080 Speaker 1: on a new idea, when my brain's fresh and I 112 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,599 Speaker 1: haven't started to get you know the daily distractions coming 113 00:06:19,640 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: into my brain or into my world. So I learned 114 00:06:23,240 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 1: a long time ago I had to be really structured 115 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 1: and disciplined about my diary because that really helped helped 116 00:06:29,960 --> 00:06:33,680 Speaker 1: me set some boundaries. Naturally, I'm a really social person 117 00:06:33,760 --> 00:06:40,320 Speaker 1: and I suffer from FOMO, so I know, without that discipline, 118 00:06:40,760 --> 00:06:43,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to naturally step into where the fun is 119 00:06:43,440 --> 00:06:46,359 Speaker 1: in the office or where the conversations are in the office. 120 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:52,120 Speaker 1: So structure has certainly helped me set up the right 121 00:06:52,160 --> 00:06:52,960 Speaker 1: daily routine. 122 00:06:53,400 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 3: And definitely my maker time is at the beginning of 123 00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 3: the day. 124 00:06:56,279 --> 00:06:59,440 Speaker 2: What rules do you have then in place to I 125 00:06:59,440 --> 00:07:03,320 Speaker 2: guess a lag yourself to have that discipline as easily 126 00:07:03,360 --> 00:07:06,680 Speaker 2: as possible, So like, do you have rules that govern 127 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:10,280 Speaker 2: your mornings or rituals or habits? Like what does that 128 00:07:10,320 --> 00:07:10,720 Speaker 2: look like? 129 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:14,560 Speaker 1: I guess some of the rules I've had to set 130 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,320 Speaker 1: up for myself is making sure my calendar is set. 131 00:07:18,160 --> 00:07:21,280 Speaker 3: Up really well the week before, and. 132 00:07:21,280 --> 00:07:24,680 Speaker 1: I'm prioritizing what I need to at the beginning of 133 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:27,960 Speaker 1: the day, so I might I might do some really 134 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,240 Speaker 1: simple things like color code different activities and color code 135 00:07:31,280 --> 00:07:35,120 Speaker 1: my maker time versus my manager time. I will set 136 00:07:35,160 --> 00:07:38,600 Speaker 1: a rhythm of you know, we have, for example, things 137 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:42,640 Speaker 1: that happen six monthly, things that happen monthly. We always 138 00:07:42,680 --> 00:07:45,160 Speaker 1: have our leadership meetings on the same day of each week. 139 00:07:45,240 --> 00:07:46,160 Speaker 3: I have my one on. 140 00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: Ones on the same day, so the days kind of 141 00:07:48,880 --> 00:07:51,680 Speaker 1: have a different flavor. But the morning's always are my 142 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:56,240 Speaker 1: maker time. And then and then I think it's just 143 00:07:56,600 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 1: about me learning a few few things personally to get 144 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:02,400 Speaker 1: better at it. 145 00:08:02,480 --> 00:08:04,640 Speaker 3: So for me, learning to say no. 146 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:10,360 Speaker 1: Is a real work in progress, you know, And one 147 00:08:10,360 --> 00:08:14,120 Speaker 1: of the goals of this year is really for me 148 00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,840 Speaker 1: to say, if something is absolutely going to add value 149 00:08:17,880 --> 00:08:21,560 Speaker 1: to my life or to the business, then it's it's 150 00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 1: an absolute yes, and it's a hard yes. 151 00:08:24,560 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 3: But if it's not, then it's a really hard no. 152 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:32,280 Speaker 1: And there's no there's no apologizing for that, there's no 153 00:08:32,360 --> 00:08:34,040 Speaker 1: trying to overcompensate for that. 154 00:08:34,720 --> 00:08:37,480 Speaker 3: It's just looking at what I do in a much 155 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 3: more black and white sense. 156 00:08:39,320 --> 00:08:41,480 Speaker 2: And so, how does that work in practice? Because I 157 00:08:41,520 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 2: think that that's something that a lot of people struggle 158 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 2: with saying saying no. So let's just say, I imagine 159 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 2: that you get approached a lot to have coffees with people, 160 00:08:51,720 --> 00:08:55,040 Speaker 2: so they can pick your brain as a successful female CEO. 161 00:08:55,440 --> 00:08:59,240 Speaker 2: So how let's just say I'm emailing you and I'm like, Pippa, 162 00:08:59,559 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 2: can I take k Hm up for a coffee? I 163 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 2: want to learn more about you, know, your your journey, 164 00:09:05,320 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: how you fit everything in? You know, can we make 165 00:09:09,040 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: a time? How would you respond to that? 166 00:09:11,880 --> 00:09:13,760 Speaker 3: Yeah, so something like that. 167 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 1: I mean it's a great example, so I probably would say, 168 00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: you know, I'd really love to spend some time talking 169 00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,840 Speaker 1: to you. How about we do it, you know, between 170 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: five and six on this day, and I know I'm 171 00:09:26,640 --> 00:09:28,520 Speaker 1: going to be in the car for an hour, so 172 00:09:28,559 --> 00:09:31,960 Speaker 1: it just I use my downtime for those things. So 173 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 1: I'm still i still feel like I'm giving some value. 174 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 1: And there's no doubt I learned just as much from 175 00:09:38,280 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 1: from talking to different people. But I'm I'm doing it 176 00:09:41,880 --> 00:09:45,160 Speaker 1: in a time that works for me, and you know, 177 00:09:45,640 --> 00:09:47,439 Speaker 1: in a time when I in the car, when I 178 00:09:47,559 --> 00:09:48,960 Speaker 1: naturally have some downtime. 179 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,760 Speaker 2: It's interesting. Carolyn Kresle was on the show a few 180 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:56,600 Speaker 2: months ago, and she uses a really similar strategy where 181 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:00,439 Speaker 2: any kind of mentoring chats, if you like, you will 182 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:03,880 Speaker 2: schedule those in for her driving time. And now, how 183 00:10:03,920 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: about when you want to say no, Like, how about 184 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,920 Speaker 2: let's say it's a speaking engagement. I'm sure you're asked 185 00:10:08,960 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 2: to do plenty of those, and it's one that, as 186 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:15,080 Speaker 2: you said, doesn't add value to yourself or the business, Like, 187 00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:16,720 Speaker 2: what is your way of saying no? 188 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 3: Yeah? 189 00:10:18,320 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: So literally, you know, for speaking engagement, I mean, you know, 190 00:10:21,720 --> 00:10:25,600 Speaker 1: my message is only going to resonate with a particular audience, 191 00:10:25,880 --> 00:10:28,760 Speaker 1: and so, you know, I always feel like if I'm 192 00:10:28,760 --> 00:10:32,240 Speaker 1: saying no, it's no for me, but it's it's more 193 00:10:32,240 --> 00:10:34,200 Speaker 1: than likely no because I'm not going to add any 194 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 1: value to the other people as well. So I simply 195 00:10:37,720 --> 00:10:40,640 Speaker 1: just say, look, you know, it's it's I'm probably not 196 00:10:40,720 --> 00:10:43,120 Speaker 1: going to add much value and there's probably someone else 197 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:46,079 Speaker 1: out there that can, but thank you so much for 198 00:10:46,520 --> 00:10:47,640 Speaker 1: the opportunity. 199 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:51,760 Speaker 2: I like that because it's it's more putting yourself in 200 00:10:52,280 --> 00:10:56,120 Speaker 2: the customer's shoes and saying, well, this isn't actually going 201 00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:59,360 Speaker 2: to add value, as opposed to sorry, I'm really busy. 202 00:10:59,679 --> 00:10:59,959 Speaker 3: Yeah. 203 00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,199 Speaker 1: It's just like any energy exchange. Really, it's if it's 204 00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: not gonna if it's not going to add value to you, 205 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: it's probably not going to add value to the other 206 00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:07,920 Speaker 1: party either. 207 00:11:08,960 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 3: No, I want to go. 208 00:11:10,280 --> 00:11:12,720 Speaker 2: Back to your make of time because I'm curious as 209 00:11:12,720 --> 00:11:19,080 Speaker 2: to how you manage digital distractions and email and phone 210 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,640 Speaker 2: and things like that coming into that creative time. Do 211 00:11:21,679 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 2: you have rules around that or would you check all 212 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 2: communication before you head into your make of time work? 213 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:29,080 Speaker 2: What does that look like? 214 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:33,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, so for me, it's it's again, it's disciplined. It's 215 00:11:33,040 --> 00:11:36,000 Speaker 1: just turning everything off while I'm in my maker time, 216 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 1: and I feel like if I can compartmentalize my life, 217 00:11:41,679 --> 00:11:44,240 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm going to miss an email 218 00:11:44,320 --> 00:11:47,160 Speaker 1: or miss a phone call or anything like that because 219 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:49,959 Speaker 1: I've got the time set up in the near future 220 00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:53,319 Speaker 1: for that, for that more manager time to call people 221 00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:55,959 Speaker 1: back and to respond to emails in an appropriate time. 222 00:11:56,880 --> 00:12:01,040 Speaker 1: But if I hadn't had that planned and structured daily 223 00:12:01,559 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: daily calendar, that's when I, you know, can kind of 224 00:12:04,920 --> 00:12:08,000 Speaker 1: go into overwhelm because I feel like I can't step 225 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:08,720 Speaker 1: away from it. 226 00:12:10,280 --> 00:12:16,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And now into your manager time. So 227 00:12:16,520 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 2: you said you've got like some weekly rhythms there for example, 228 00:12:20,080 --> 00:12:22,400 Speaker 2: like there's one particular afternoon where you'll catch up with 229 00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:25,240 Speaker 2: all your direct reports. How do you make the most 230 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,720 Speaker 2: of the manager time, like What is the preparation that 231 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 2: goes into that. Are there any sort of strategies that 232 00:12:31,080 --> 00:12:33,839 Speaker 2: you use there, like to make meetings more productive? What 233 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:36,199 Speaker 2: are some of the things that you do there to 234 00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:38,040 Speaker 2: make the most out of your manager time. 235 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, that's a good question. So I think preparation is 236 00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:46,559 Speaker 1: absolutely key. So you know, all the managers, whether it's 237 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:48,840 Speaker 1: one on one meeting or whether it's our leadership meeting 238 00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: for the week, there's really clear preparation that they need 239 00:12:52,640 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 1: to do to make sure we're getting both getting value 240 00:12:54,880 --> 00:12:58,040 Speaker 1: out of the time. So agendas are prepared and sent 241 00:12:58,120 --> 00:13:01,960 Speaker 1: out twenty four hours prior any reports are received so 242 00:13:02,040 --> 00:13:05,200 Speaker 1: we can review and then I live by this really 243 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:09,840 Speaker 1: this really simple. I guess analogy that I that I 244 00:13:09,960 --> 00:13:15,240 Speaker 1: learned a while ago, and it's it's one problem, three options, 245 00:13:15,280 --> 00:13:19,360 Speaker 1: and one recommendation. So if someone you know wants to 246 00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:21,840 Speaker 1: meet me one of my managers, or it could could 247 00:13:21,880 --> 00:13:24,920 Speaker 1: be could be then presented to it to the broader 248 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,360 Speaker 1: leadership team, then then we try and use that framework. 249 00:13:28,440 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 1: So set up a problem, set up three options, and 250 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:33,080 Speaker 1: then set up the recommendations. 251 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:36,000 Speaker 3: So where you know where we're. 252 00:13:36,120 --> 00:13:40,439 Speaker 1: We're forcing ourselves through a framework to have solution based conversations. 253 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:45,120 Speaker 2: I like that framework a lot, and and so how 254 00:13:45,120 --> 00:13:49,120 Speaker 2: does that work in practice? Like is it like I mean, 255 00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: is that just so ingrained in the business that everyone 256 00:13:51,400 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 2: does that, or like what what does that look like 257 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:55,280 Speaker 2: in practice? 258 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:56,160 Speaker 3: Yeah? Sure? 259 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,480 Speaker 1: So, you know, quite simply in the leadership meetings, you know, 260 00:13:59,559 --> 00:14:02,440 Speaker 1: I would literally write one three to one on the board, 261 00:14:03,280 --> 00:14:06,720 Speaker 1: and I you know, I do it to regularly remind 262 00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:09,160 Speaker 1: everyone how to frame things, because I know we all 263 00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:13,760 Speaker 1: get so busy and quite often things. 264 00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:14,200 Speaker 3: Aren't framed the right way. 265 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:19,359 Speaker 1: So symbolically I just write one three one on agendas. 266 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,520 Speaker 1: That's how I also set out the agenda framework so 267 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:27,640 Speaker 1: people can you know, be reminded and again frame an 268 00:14:27,680 --> 00:14:32,160 Speaker 1: agenda to go one one problem three options one recommendation 269 00:14:32,280 --> 00:14:34,920 Speaker 1: so that it forces the preparation and the thinking time 270 00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:36,560 Speaker 1: before we actually get to the meeting. 271 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 2: That's nice having the visual reminder as well. I finally, 272 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 2: you know, when you introduce new frameworks into a business, 273 00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:45,720 Speaker 2: it's I think the trick is making them stick. And 274 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 2: what else do you do with meetings like consciously to 275 00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,560 Speaker 2: make sure that you get the most out of them? 276 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:56,040 Speaker 2: Because I think for most people, probably most managers, most 277 00:14:56,080 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 2: people reporting to managers, they're possibly the bane of their 278 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: existence at work. I've read that I think the average 279 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: CEO or executive has something like twenty three hours of 280 00:15:06,120 --> 00:15:08,640 Speaker 2: meetings a week or something like that. So what other 281 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 2: things are you doing to make more productive and more 282 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:12,320 Speaker 2: enjoyable as well? 283 00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, look, I think I think it goes back to 284 00:15:14,880 --> 00:15:18,040 Speaker 1: the planning your week out, and planning your week out, 285 00:15:18,320 --> 00:15:19,640 Speaker 1: you know, on the friday before. 286 00:15:19,840 --> 00:15:22,120 Speaker 3: So if I look at. 287 00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:24,960 Speaker 1: My calendar, i'll i'll, you know, and notice if there's 288 00:15:24,960 --> 00:15:28,000 Speaker 1: any meetings that either are double ups and can be 289 00:15:28,080 --> 00:15:30,640 Speaker 1: moved into another meeting and just cover it off as 290 00:15:30,680 --> 00:15:33,960 Speaker 1: an a gender item, or if there's meetings simply we 291 00:15:34,040 --> 00:15:36,120 Speaker 1: don't need to meet for and we're just we're just 292 00:15:36,160 --> 00:15:37,800 Speaker 1: meeting for the sake of having a meeting, and it 293 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:41,080 Speaker 1: can be dealt with over email. So those things are 294 00:15:41,160 --> 00:15:44,160 Speaker 1: just pushed out and it's just a it's a constant 295 00:15:44,160 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: work in progress. I think, to make sure we're coming 296 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:50,240 Speaker 1: together and if we're coming together, we're coming together for 297 00:15:50,280 --> 00:15:54,200 Speaker 1: a specific outcome that's going to impact everyone in the room. 298 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 2: I've heard you talk about balancing being a CEO with 299 00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,840 Speaker 2: being a mum, and I know You've got two young boys? 300 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:04,080 Speaker 2: Are they like four and six years old? Have I 301 00:16:04,120 --> 00:16:04,960 Speaker 2: got the ages right? 302 00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 3: You close? 303 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 2: They're three and six, so yeah, wonderful, wonderful, lovely ages. 304 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 2: I've got a five year old at home, so I 305 00:16:12,440 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 2: can definitely relate to the age group. And I want 306 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:21,320 Speaker 2: to know, like, what what strategies have you used to 307 00:16:21,400 --> 00:16:26,600 Speaker 2: help balance being a very busy leader with being a 308 00:16:26,720 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 2: mum of two little people? Like what what are the 309 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:31,680 Speaker 2: keys to making that work? 310 00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:33,000 Speaker 3: Yeah? 311 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:35,280 Speaker 1: So I think I think it goes back to when 312 00:16:35,320 --> 00:16:39,680 Speaker 1: I first had my eldest son. Someone said to me, once, 313 00:16:39,880 --> 00:16:42,560 Speaker 1: you know, the best piece of advice I can give 314 00:16:42,640 --> 00:16:45,800 Speaker 1: you is that you just need to keep adapting. So 315 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,520 Speaker 1: whilst you need you know, whilst for me having children 316 00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: with the biggest game changes in my life, they forced 317 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,880 Speaker 1: me to go from someone who would be at work 318 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,400 Speaker 1: first and you know, be the last to leave. And 319 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:01,520 Speaker 1: quite often I got into this terrible habit of you know, 320 00:17:01,640 --> 00:17:04,120 Speaker 1: working on the weekends and getting my work done because 321 00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:08,000 Speaker 1: I was, you know, allowing myself to get pulled from 322 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,399 Speaker 1: pell at to post. So all of a sudden my 323 00:17:10,520 --> 00:17:12,720 Speaker 1: kids came along and I was like, wow, I really 324 00:17:12,760 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 1: need to step up and get better about how I 325 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,520 Speaker 1: spend my time. So I think again, it goes back 326 00:17:20,560 --> 00:17:24,480 Speaker 1: to really setting up your week and adapting. So I 327 00:17:24,520 --> 00:17:27,840 Speaker 1: find and you probably find this too, that sometimes your 328 00:17:27,880 --> 00:17:30,560 Speaker 1: kids are going to need you more one day, and sometimes. 329 00:17:30,080 --> 00:17:32,720 Speaker 3: The business is going to need you more the other day. 330 00:17:32,840 --> 00:17:35,200 Speaker 1: So you just got to be open having You've got 331 00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: to have a structure, but you've got to be willing 332 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:38,679 Speaker 1: to adapt each and every day as well. 333 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 2: I can absolutely relate, and I can relate to just 334 00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 2: how you described your life pre versus post motherhood. Like 335 00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:49,960 Speaker 2: I would work crazy hours, but often because I wasn't 336 00:17:50,000 --> 00:17:52,280 Speaker 2: being as productive as I could be or as disciplined 337 00:17:52,480 --> 00:17:56,080 Speaker 2: with my time. But when Frankie came along, I was like, Okay, 338 00:17:56,480 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 2: I got to sit some boundaries here otherwise this you know, 339 00:17:59,160 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 2: motherfood thing isn't work properly. 340 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 3: Exactly there. So they're the best. 341 00:18:04,000 --> 00:18:06,399 Speaker 1: I found that too, that they've been the best teachers 342 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:10,360 Speaker 1: for me to set up my time properly. And and 343 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,040 Speaker 1: you know, so it goes back. It goes back to 344 00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,000 Speaker 1: you know a few things I've said before. I had 345 00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,119 Speaker 1: to start being okay to say no. I had to 346 00:18:19,160 --> 00:18:23,520 Speaker 1: become okay with protecting my space and setting setting up 347 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,879 Speaker 1: my space each week to get the right rhythm between 348 00:18:26,920 --> 00:18:29,840 Speaker 1: the maker and the manager and being the mom and 349 00:18:29,880 --> 00:18:32,720 Speaker 1: being the CEO, and and and you. 350 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,000 Speaker 3: Know, creating that rhythm. 351 00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:37,719 Speaker 1: So so I feel like I feel like, you know, 352 00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:40,200 Speaker 1: I'm not letting everyone down all the time. 353 00:18:40,560 --> 00:18:43,080 Speaker 3: I'm a lot more deliberate about where I spend my time. 354 00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:46,439 Speaker 2: Do you do you experience mother gils? I mean it's 355 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,000 Speaker 2: such a cliche, but is that something that you can 356 00:18:50,040 --> 00:18:50,960 Speaker 2: relate to personally? 357 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:52,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course. 358 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,560 Speaker 1: I mean I I don't think I've ever met a 359 00:18:55,640 --> 00:19:00,439 Speaker 1: mum that doesn't, so, you know, definitely, it's it's it's 360 00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:02,719 Speaker 1: you know, it's a lot, it's alive and real. It's 361 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:06,040 Speaker 1: it's just how you know, we learned to deal with it. 362 00:19:06,119 --> 00:19:11,119 Speaker 1: And you know, on an academic level, I really believe 363 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:13,280 Speaker 1: that guilts are wasted emotion. 364 00:19:13,840 --> 00:19:15,640 Speaker 3: But on an emotional level. 365 00:19:15,680 --> 00:19:19,679 Speaker 1: It's it's something that I struggle with every you know, 366 00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: every week. My son had Harmony Day today, which is, 367 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,240 Speaker 1: you know, you have to dress up in a international 368 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,480 Speaker 1: country and cook a meal and take it to school. 369 00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,000 Speaker 3: And I left at you know, six o'clock. 370 00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:33,520 Speaker 1: In the morning to come to work and I was like, oh, 371 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,480 Speaker 1: I feel really bad that I'm not going to see 372 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:37,480 Speaker 1: him dressed as a little you know, in a little 373 00:19:37,480 --> 00:19:39,160 Speaker 1: French outfit with his little French food. 374 00:19:39,320 --> 00:19:45,440 Speaker 3: So but that that But that's okay. 375 00:19:46,280 --> 00:19:49,480 Speaker 2: Yeah, I was going to ask about the mornings, Like 376 00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:51,520 Speaker 2: I was struck by the fact that, you know, you 377 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 2: are starting your day so early, which I think makes 378 00:19:55,600 --> 00:19:58,680 Speaker 2: complete sense from from a make a time point of view, 379 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,159 Speaker 2: and I find and for me, when I can have 380 00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:04,399 Speaker 2: those really early starts, my day is much better. But 381 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:07,200 Speaker 2: then you know, also in the back of my mind, 382 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,480 Speaker 2: I am like, oh, I think I'll just try to, 383 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:12,840 Speaker 2: you know, get an hour of Frankie time before my 384 00:20:12,960 --> 00:20:16,439 Speaker 2: husband takes over, which means I'm not starting like my 385 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:20,240 Speaker 2: make of time until say nine am, And I want 386 00:20:20,240 --> 00:20:23,840 Speaker 2: to know like which then which which cuts into my productivity? 387 00:20:23,920 --> 00:20:26,040 Speaker 2: But then I'm sort of like, okay, well, no, I 388 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: should I should do that, and you know, want to 389 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:29,720 Speaker 2: be with Frankie in the morning. How do you sort 390 00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:32,000 Speaker 2: of manage that? Like is there is there kind of 391 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,080 Speaker 2: part of you that's like, Okay, I'm going to make 392 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:37,919 Speaker 2: this like compromise here, but then at the tail end 393 00:20:37,960 --> 00:20:41,520 Speaker 2: of the day, I'm going to like make this you know, 394 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:44,200 Speaker 2: this decision. So how like, how how do you sort 395 00:20:44,240 --> 00:20:47,480 Speaker 2: of mentally balance that or you know, I guess like 396 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,080 Speaker 2: making different choices at the end of your day compared 397 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 2: to the beginning of your day, like we're trying to balance. 398 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,520 Speaker 1: So so again it goes back to the structure and 399 00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:58,840 Speaker 1: the rhythm of my weak So pretty much Monday through 400 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:03,400 Speaker 1: to Thursday, I leave really early, I get my make 401 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 1: of time done really early, and then my brain. 402 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,400 Speaker 3: Pretty much switches off by four o'clock. 403 00:21:08,960 --> 00:21:14,920 Speaker 1: So I'm not that productive, so I tend to then 404 00:21:15,240 --> 00:21:17,480 Speaker 1: you know, switch into I'm really looking forward to seeing 405 00:21:17,480 --> 00:21:19,880 Speaker 1: my kids and I'd really love to go home and 406 00:21:20,119 --> 00:21:23,960 Speaker 1: you know, bounce on the trampoline. So I'm I'm that's 407 00:21:23,960 --> 00:21:27,919 Speaker 1: how structure my day because it works for us. The 408 00:21:27,960 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: mornings in our house are really crazy anyway, because everyone's 409 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:34,440 Speaker 1: getting up and going to school and going to kindie 410 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:37,040 Speaker 1: and so so I find there's not a lot of 411 00:21:37,119 --> 00:21:42,000 Speaker 1: quality time with each other then anyway, So my afternoons 412 00:21:42,000 --> 00:21:43,680 Speaker 1: at the quality time with my kids. 413 00:21:44,200 --> 00:21:47,000 Speaker 3: I also work four days a week, and I set 414 00:21:47,040 --> 00:21:47,400 Speaker 3: that up. 415 00:21:48,200 --> 00:21:50,399 Speaker 1: You know when I had my first son, and I 416 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,880 Speaker 1: said to the board, look, you know, until until both 417 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:56,199 Speaker 1: my kids are at school. I'm going to work four 418 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,399 Speaker 1: days a week because the Friday is really sacred, you 419 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: know for me just to spend with one or both 420 00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: of the children until they go to school. 421 00:22:05,520 --> 00:22:09,359 Speaker 2: Oh, that's a nice decision. Was Was the board instantly 422 00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 2: supportive of that? 423 00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:12,720 Speaker 3: Yeah? 424 00:22:12,800 --> 00:22:16,119 Speaker 1: They were, actually, And I think I think, you know, 425 00:22:16,240 --> 00:22:21,000 Speaker 1: that's where you know, that's where I don't really believe 426 00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:24,480 Speaker 1: in work life balance. I think, you know, when you 427 00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:27,919 Speaker 1: take on some really big roles such as being a 428 00:22:28,000 --> 00:22:31,360 Speaker 1: mom and running a business and doing all the other 429 00:22:31,400 --> 00:22:34,800 Speaker 1: things we do, it's a lifestyle choice. So for me, 430 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:39,360 Speaker 1: it's just about you know, doing the doing the role 431 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,720 Speaker 1: and delivering you know, to the best of my ability 432 00:22:42,960 --> 00:22:46,000 Speaker 1: in the time that that works best for me. So 433 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: I think from a board perspective, it's quite simply, you know, 434 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 1: did we deliver or did we not? 435 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:52,119 Speaker 3: Not not? 436 00:22:52,320 --> 00:22:56,159 Speaker 1: They never really get into how many hours did you 437 00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:57,159 Speaker 1: clock in at work? 438 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:03,879 Speaker 2: I think that's help perspective. And yeah, that's interesting what 439 00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:07,720 Speaker 2: you say about like really picking when when are the 440 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:11,120 Speaker 2: best times of day to have quality time with your kids, 441 00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:17,520 Speaker 2: And yeah, absolutely mornings. Mornings can be a challenge because 442 00:23:17,560 --> 00:23:20,720 Speaker 2: it's all it all feels very task oriented in the morning, 443 00:23:20,840 --> 00:23:24,040 Speaker 2: like get dress, put uniform on, pack your bag, make 444 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:26,720 Speaker 2: all that sort of stuff. Yeah, and so when you 445 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,920 Speaker 2: are so, like, would you be leaving the office at 446 00:23:30,000 --> 00:23:34,120 Speaker 2: four o'clock like on a typical Monday to Thursday. Yeah, yeah, amazing. 447 00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:35,200 Speaker 3: I do that way. 448 00:23:35,240 --> 00:23:38,200 Speaker 1: I don't sit in peak out traffic either. So I live, 449 00:23:38,400 --> 00:23:40,320 Speaker 1: you know, twenty minutes from the office, but if I 450 00:23:40,359 --> 00:23:42,080 Speaker 1: sit in the traffic, it could take me an hour 451 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:45,160 Speaker 1: and a half to get here. So I've just tried 452 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 1: to repurpose my day to avoid that. 453 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:50,800 Speaker 2: That is that is a clever decision. It's funny. I 454 00:23:51,119 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 2: almost do something identical. I'll generally leave the office if 455 00:23:54,880 --> 00:23:58,800 Speaker 2: I'm not working from home by four o'clock. It's quite 456 00:23:58,880 --> 00:24:02,080 Speaker 2: rare to leave beater than that. And yeah, for similar reason. 457 00:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,280 Speaker 2: But what does that look like when when you're with 458 00:24:04,880 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 2: your two boys? Like, how how do you be one 459 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:11,080 Speaker 2: hundred percent present? Because I think I've heard you refer 460 00:24:11,160 --> 00:24:13,240 Speaker 2: to that. It's like, you know, you'll, you know, give 461 00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,359 Speaker 2: it like one hundred and twenty percent in terms of 462 00:24:15,359 --> 00:24:17,480 Speaker 2: when you're at work, that's what you do, and when 463 00:24:17,520 --> 00:24:19,560 Speaker 2: you're in mum moote that's what you do. Because I 464 00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,480 Speaker 2: think that so many parents are not present, and it's 465 00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,560 Speaker 2: so funny where at the moment my husband and I 466 00:24:27,480 --> 00:24:31,800 Speaker 2: doing this digital declat at and we're you know, just 467 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:34,359 Speaker 2: leaving our phones at home or in the car, and 468 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:37,640 Speaker 2: particularly when we're with Frankie, and we're noticing, like even 469 00:24:37,720 --> 00:24:40,080 Speaker 2: just we go out to cafes a lot with Frankie 470 00:24:40,119 --> 00:24:43,120 Speaker 2: and we just noticed that so many parents are on 471 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,120 Speaker 2: their phones when they're with their children in cafes and 472 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,520 Speaker 2: it's quite striking. So, how what are your kind of methods, 473 00:24:50,560 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 2: I guess for staying present as a mum. 474 00:24:54,280 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I think, I think again, I've got you know, 475 00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 1: I'm not an expert on this, and I've I certainly failed, 476 00:24:59,119 --> 00:25:01,000 Speaker 1: probably you know, eight. 477 00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:01,560 Speaker 3: Times out of ten. 478 00:25:01,600 --> 00:25:07,160 Speaker 1: But I do know that the most unproductive and possibly 479 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:11,199 Speaker 1: the worst performing moments in my life all my week, 480 00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:14,840 Speaker 1: when I'm trying to try to be a mum and 481 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,479 Speaker 1: trying to work at the same time in the same space, 482 00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:22,879 Speaker 1: I just tend to make really bad decisions. I get frustrated, 483 00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:26,000 Speaker 1: my kids then get frustrated at me, and I just 484 00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,719 Speaker 1: try and rush through whatever I'm looking at, an email 485 00:25:29,920 --> 00:25:31,200 Speaker 1: or a phone call or whatever. 486 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:35,800 Speaker 3: So I really, you know, I can't. I can't make 487 00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:37,800 Speaker 3: that work for anyone. 488 00:25:38,240 --> 00:25:41,680 Speaker 1: So I really try, and you know, separate the times 489 00:25:41,680 --> 00:25:45,480 Speaker 1: that I'm a mom and the times that I am working, 490 00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,840 Speaker 1: and being in different spaces has really helped me. I'm 491 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:52,960 Speaker 1: not someone who can work at home with kids around. 492 00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:57,000 Speaker 1: It just it just hasn't worked for me. So I 493 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 1: just try and be you know, disciplined and again impartmentalize 494 00:26:01,000 --> 00:26:01,480 Speaker 1: my life. 495 00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:05,560 Speaker 3: I mean, my Friday pretty much is with my kids. 496 00:26:05,600 --> 00:26:08,600 Speaker 1: But I do know that, you know, I have an 497 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:10,879 Speaker 1: hour in the middle of the day to do my 498 00:26:10,960 --> 00:26:14,200 Speaker 1: emails and phone calls, and again an hour at the 499 00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,240 Speaker 1: end of the day when my kids are doing different things. 500 00:26:16,280 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 1: So I just try and create a structure around myself 501 00:26:19,080 --> 00:26:21,840 Speaker 1: so it doesn't all start to blend in together and 502 00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 1: leave everyone feeling frustrated. 503 00:26:25,080 --> 00:26:30,280 Speaker 2: Gosh, that's such a good point. Yeah, doing motherhood and 504 00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:36,080 Speaker 2: workhood at the same time never ends. Well, Yeah, why 505 00:26:36,119 --> 00:26:41,159 Speaker 2: do we all try? I want to ask, because before 506 00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,080 Speaker 2: you made the transition to CEO, you were head of 507 00:26:44,160 --> 00:26:48,880 Speaker 2: marketing for Labashet, and I'm curious. I read in an 508 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:51,960 Speaker 2: interview that you said it took you a good twelve 509 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:56,320 Speaker 2: months to actually perceive yourself as the CEO, and I 510 00:26:56,320 --> 00:27:00,240 Speaker 2: wanted to ask, like, was that because you had imposter syndrome? 511 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,679 Speaker 2: Like that, what was that about? 512 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, definitely, looking looking back, I definitely did. You know, 513 00:27:07,280 --> 00:27:11,040 Speaker 1: I just felt a lot more comfortable with introducing myself 514 00:27:11,119 --> 00:27:12,840 Speaker 1: to people as the head of marketing. 515 00:27:12,920 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 3: I felt really confident in that role. 516 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:19,240 Speaker 1: I felt like my abilities were there, and that transition 517 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:22,640 Speaker 1: to CEO I kind of went, you know it. 518 00:27:22,720 --> 00:27:25,479 Speaker 3: Just I just am not sure that I should be 519 00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:25,919 Speaker 3: doing that. 520 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:29,880 Speaker 1: So it took me a good twelve months of literally 521 00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,280 Speaker 1: doing it, literally turning up literally having a seat at 522 00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:36,720 Speaker 1: the table and feeling like I had a voice of 523 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:40,600 Speaker 1: a CEO for me to not feel like an impost. 524 00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:46,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's interesting, Like I want to know what 525 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,359 Speaker 2: strategies did you use to overcome imposter syndrome? Like I 526 00:27:50,840 --> 00:27:54,399 Speaker 2: know for me, I've had imposter syndrome at various points 527 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:57,480 Speaker 2: in my life. Like I remember I was quite young 528 00:27:57,520 --> 00:28:00,800 Speaker 2: when I was accepted into the Doctorate of Boite program 529 00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:02,840 Speaker 2: at Monash, and I was convinced for the first year 530 00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,960 Speaker 2: that there'd been an administrative era, Like I was absolutely convinced. 531 00:28:05,960 --> 00:28:09,600 Speaker 2: And then I remember, I know you've worked in advertising 532 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,399 Speaker 2: and I did too, before I started inventing. And I 533 00:28:12,400 --> 00:28:15,639 Speaker 2: remember I got head hunted for this role up in 534 00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:19,040 Speaker 2: Sydney and it was a senior strategy role, and I, 535 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:21,160 Speaker 2: you know, I'd only had like a couple of years 536 00:28:21,200 --> 00:28:24,680 Speaker 2: experience working in advertising. And again I thought, when am 537 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:27,320 Speaker 2: I going to get found out by my boss that 538 00:28:27,359 --> 00:28:31,680 Speaker 2: I'm not a senior person. And I remember I went 539 00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,640 Speaker 2: for a coffee with another strategist up in Sydney and 540 00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,960 Speaker 2: he said, you just have to keep faking it. You 541 00:28:40,040 --> 00:28:43,400 Speaker 2: might never feel like you're a senior strategist, but just 542 00:28:43,400 --> 00:28:45,840 Speaker 2: just keep faking it. That's what we all do. And 543 00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,760 Speaker 2: I thought that that's actually quite good advice. So I 544 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:50,880 Speaker 2: want to know, for you, what did you do over 545 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 2: that twelve months that actually led you to finally get 546 00:28:54,200 --> 00:28:56,280 Speaker 2: comfortable saying I'm the CEO. 547 00:28:58,560 --> 00:28:58,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 548 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:01,520 Speaker 1: Look, I think I think I can really really relate 549 00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:04,080 Speaker 1: to that example. So, you know, when I when I 550 00:29:04,080 --> 00:29:07,360 Speaker 1: stepped into the CEO position, I was, you know, thirty three, 551 00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,160 Speaker 1: I was, you know, obviously a young female. 552 00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:13,720 Speaker 3: I had to let go of certain things. 553 00:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,920 Speaker 1: I guess that I conditioned myself to think in the past, 554 00:29:17,960 --> 00:29:21,240 Speaker 1: and one of those things was obviously, you know, being 555 00:29:21,240 --> 00:29:23,800 Speaker 1: a young female my role was to really you know, 556 00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:28,160 Speaker 1: facilitate the conversation, make sure everyone's feeling good. So I 557 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:29,920 Speaker 1: had I had to let go of that, and I 558 00:29:29,960 --> 00:29:35,240 Speaker 1: had to deliberately reflect on myself and go, no, I'm 559 00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:37,440 Speaker 1: at the table here. I've got a I've got a 560 00:29:37,520 --> 00:29:40,120 Speaker 1: duty to really own my voice and to be bold 561 00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,160 Speaker 1: enough and to be brave enough to step out and 562 00:29:42,920 --> 00:29:45,080 Speaker 1: put my opinion on the table and not worry about 563 00:29:45,080 --> 00:29:49,720 Speaker 1: what other people think. But I had to. I had 564 00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,080 Speaker 1: to fake it till I made it. So, you know, 565 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,800 Speaker 1: quite often, you know, people would say to me, oh, 566 00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: you come across as so calm and you know, poised 567 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,960 Speaker 1: and all this kind of stuff, but but really I 568 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:07,200 Speaker 1: was completely the opposite inside. So I spent many years, 569 00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,040 Speaker 1: you know, with butterflies and faking it and and thinking 570 00:30:11,080 --> 00:30:13,360 Speaker 1: that I was not I was not old enough, or 571 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,280 Speaker 1: I was you know, not smart enough for all these 572 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,240 Speaker 1: things to to to do what I was doing. And 573 00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,640 Speaker 1: then just through experience, you just you just learned to 574 00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:24,800 Speaker 1: learn to embrace it. 575 00:30:26,280 --> 00:30:29,200 Speaker 2: And how how did you calm yourself down when you're 576 00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:30,920 Speaker 2: feeling like, you know, let's just say you had a 577 00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:33,960 Speaker 2: high stakes meeting as CEO in that first year like, 578 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:36,640 Speaker 2: do you remember what you were doing like prior to 579 00:30:36,640 --> 00:30:40,760 Speaker 2: the meeting or presentation to to manage those nerves. 580 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:43,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, I look for me, it's just it was. It 581 00:30:43,480 --> 00:30:48,520 Speaker 1: was planning and practice. So obviously I can wing it 582 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,680 Speaker 1: a lot more now than I than I used to, 583 00:30:51,080 --> 00:30:54,239 Speaker 1: you know, back in the early days. So preparation was 584 00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:58,760 Speaker 1: really really key to get my messages really clear, to 585 00:30:58,800 --> 00:31:01,840 Speaker 1: get the right data, to use data instead of my 586 00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:05,040 Speaker 1: own personality if I was up against you know, lots 587 00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:09,920 Speaker 1: of I guess alpha males for example, So definitely preparation, 588 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: definitely practice, and then definitely faking it till I made it, 589 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:18,160 Speaker 1: you know, in those boardrooms or in those those presentation rooms. 590 00:31:19,360 --> 00:31:22,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's quit it. It was a good tool to 591 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:23,800 Speaker 2: use data as ammunition. 592 00:31:25,040 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 3: And yeah yeah yeah. 593 00:31:26,600 --> 00:31:29,360 Speaker 2: Like knowing what you do now, you know now that 594 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:33,360 Speaker 2: you're like like six or seven years into the CEO role, 595 00:31:33,480 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 2: is that right? 596 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,520 Speaker 3: Yep, yep, yeah, yeah. 597 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,480 Speaker 2: What advice would you have given yourself at the time 598 00:31:39,520 --> 00:31:43,440 Speaker 2: when you were thirty three? Like knowing what you know now, I. 599 00:31:43,360 --> 00:31:45,520 Speaker 1: Think one of the most wonderful things that I've learned 600 00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:48,320 Speaker 1: over the years is there are a lot of other 601 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:51,120 Speaker 1: people out there in your situation. And I think for 602 00:31:51,240 --> 00:31:54,360 Speaker 1: me there was a it was a combination of stepping 603 00:31:54,360 --> 00:31:57,800 Speaker 1: out of advertising, stepping into a family business, and that 604 00:31:57,920 --> 00:32:00,680 Speaker 1: was a whole nother you know, learning sperience for me 605 00:32:01,520 --> 00:32:05,600 Speaker 1: having a spotlight on my last name, and then also 606 00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,760 Speaker 1: combining that with quite a fast trajectory into a CEO role. 607 00:32:09,840 --> 00:32:14,480 Speaker 1: And I have since, you know, have learned the power 608 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:20,160 Speaker 1: of connecting into role models or coaches or different networks 609 00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,640 Speaker 1: that you can really find like minded people and people 610 00:32:23,680 --> 00:32:27,120 Speaker 1: that have are either walking in your shoes right now 611 00:32:27,400 --> 00:32:31,520 Speaker 1: or have walked in your shoes previously. And and I 612 00:32:31,560 --> 00:32:36,960 Speaker 1: guess surrounding yourself with those people and the support just 613 00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 1: helps enormously. 614 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: And how did you find mentors or like minded people? 615 00:32:43,240 --> 00:32:45,320 Speaker 2: Like what was your approach to doing that? 616 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:47,600 Speaker 3: Yes, I think it's twofold. 617 00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,440 Speaker 1: I think on one side of the coin in my life, 618 00:32:50,480 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: it's happened organically. In other times in my life, I've 619 00:32:53,640 --> 00:32:56,520 Speaker 1: kind of gone, you know what, I really need to 620 00:32:56,520 --> 00:32:59,680 Speaker 1: fill a knowledge gap in this area, or I really 621 00:32:59,680 --> 00:33:03,120 Speaker 1: need to have support in a certain area if I'm 622 00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:06,480 Speaker 1: about to take a bold move, and I really need 623 00:33:06,560 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: to go out there and find someone who can really 624 00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,520 Speaker 1: support me through this process and. 625 00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:13,960 Speaker 2: How have you done that? Like, has it been a 626 00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 2: Google search? Has it been asking people like how did 627 00:33:17,960 --> 00:33:22,040 Speaker 2: you find either those individuals or even those groups? And 628 00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:23,960 Speaker 2: I'd be curious to know, like which groups you are 629 00:33:24,040 --> 00:33:25,800 Speaker 2: a part of that you find valuable. 630 00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:29,479 Speaker 1: So I guess at the moment, the biggest you value 631 00:33:29,480 --> 00:33:32,360 Speaker 1: I get is from a group called YPO, and it's 632 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 1: a young it's an American organization, so it stands for 633 00:33:36,360 --> 00:33:41,840 Speaker 1: Young Presidents Organization, and it's a network of global CEOs 634 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,920 Speaker 1: who are under fifty. Their whole philosophy and reason for 635 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:51,480 Speaker 1: being is lifelong learning. So it's a combination of education 636 00:33:52,640 --> 00:33:56,440 Speaker 1: opportunities and also you get push in a forum, a 637 00:33:56,520 --> 00:33:59,000 Speaker 1: group of eight CEOs that you meet with once a month. 638 00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:04,920 Speaker 1: That's been enormously invaluable for me in the past. I've 639 00:34:04,960 --> 00:34:10,240 Speaker 1: had one on one coaches where I've met with someone 640 00:34:10,360 --> 00:34:14,160 Speaker 1: for an hour a month, and it's quite often just 641 00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: at a cafe and I'll run through, you know, my plans, 642 00:34:18,320 --> 00:34:22,520 Speaker 1: my challenges and and it's pretty much like a business 643 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:27,160 Speaker 1: therapy session. But it really provided me with some amazing, 644 00:34:27,760 --> 00:34:32,600 Speaker 1: amazing confidence and ability in those in those moments in 645 00:34:32,640 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 1: my younger years where I really needed that support and 646 00:34:36,080 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: that that mentoring, and and that person i've you know, 647 00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 1: I met just through just just through asking people asking 648 00:34:43,600 --> 00:34:46,160 Speaker 1: around who's this, you know, who's who's a person out 649 00:34:46,160 --> 00:34:49,080 Speaker 1: there that's been in my situation a couple of years. 650 00:34:48,880 --> 00:34:51,640 Speaker 3: Ahead of me, and and finding that person. 651 00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,200 Speaker 2: Yeah. Right, So it wasn't necessarily about finding like a 652 00:34:56,239 --> 00:34:59,800 Speaker 2: professional coach in adverted commas. It was more finding someone 653 00:35:00,040 --> 00:35:03,640 Speaker 2: who'd been there, done that and could share wisdom with you. 654 00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, And they just so happened to be a 655 00:35:08,080 --> 00:35:09,720 Speaker 1: good mentor and good coach as well. 656 00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:10,680 Speaker 4: Yeah. 657 00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:14,720 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that as a strategy. And and also ypos. 658 00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:18,080 Speaker 2: I'm very familiar with YPO and they're kind of assisted 659 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:22,920 Speaker 2: Companies Entrepreneurs Organization, which I think runs on a similar format, 660 00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:25,560 Speaker 2: which I was a member of for a few years. 661 00:35:25,640 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 2: And can you talk me through, like what does a 662 00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:32,759 Speaker 2: typical YPO like meeting with your forum like, which is 663 00:35:32,760 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 2: your you know, group of eight or so other CEOs. 664 00:35:35,680 --> 00:35:37,640 Speaker 2: What does that look like for people that are not 665 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:39,600 Speaker 2: familiar with this, because I think it's quite an interesting 666 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 2: structure that these groups run on. 667 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 3: Yeah, it is. 668 00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:45,680 Speaker 1: It is very interesting, and it's you know, I guess 669 00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:49,279 Speaker 1: it's based on the principle that it's it's not just 670 00:35:49,320 --> 00:35:52,520 Speaker 1: about business, it's about it's about business, it's about family, 671 00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:56,439 Speaker 1: it's about you, and it's about getting deep and getting 672 00:35:56,520 --> 00:35:59,239 Speaker 1: vulnerable with this group of people, because that's you know, 673 00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:02,919 Speaker 1: that's where I guess you can you can bust through 674 00:36:02,960 --> 00:36:06,640 Speaker 1: some blockages. So there's a set framework and there's a 675 00:36:06,680 --> 00:36:10,560 Speaker 1: set of gender that you run through so you can 676 00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,680 Speaker 1: get as as deep and as vulnerable with these people, 677 00:36:14,640 --> 00:36:17,400 Speaker 1: which is really hard for a group of CEOs because 678 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,839 Speaker 1: they're so used to achieving and quite often you run 679 00:36:20,880 --> 00:36:24,080 Speaker 1: out of a big meeting and into these foreign groups. 680 00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:27,520 Speaker 1: So you you need it, you need that process to 681 00:36:27,520 --> 00:36:31,839 Speaker 1: to switch gears and get really vulnerable. So it's it's 682 00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:36,600 Speaker 1: through I guess, building up trust that vulnerability comes from, 683 00:36:36,880 --> 00:36:41,280 Speaker 1: and then through through shared experience as opposed to telling 684 00:36:41,320 --> 00:36:44,759 Speaker 1: people what they should do, that the learnings come out 685 00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:45,080 Speaker 1: of them. 686 00:36:45,719 --> 00:36:48,640 Speaker 2: Yeah. I always found that part of the approach really interesting, 687 00:36:48,760 --> 00:36:51,880 Speaker 2: where you're basically not allowed to give each other advice. 688 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,560 Speaker 2: All you can do is share your experience when you 689 00:36:55,640 --> 00:37:00,359 Speaker 2: were in a similar situation, which which is certain quite 690 00:37:00,360 --> 00:37:01,800 Speaker 2: a powerful thing to keep. 691 00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:05,440 Speaker 1: In mind, and also share share how you felt you 692 00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,320 Speaker 1: know what your feelings were around that experience as opposed 693 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:12,359 Speaker 1: to you know, the transactional nature of that experience. 694 00:37:12,920 --> 00:37:16,680 Speaker 2: H yeah, absolutely. Now, in the last few minutes that 695 00:37:16,719 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 2: we've got together, I want to sort of ask some 696 00:37:19,960 --> 00:37:23,680 Speaker 2: kind of rapid fire questions, although this never goes particularly rapidly, 697 00:37:24,239 --> 00:37:27,960 Speaker 2: about what you're consuming. So you know, you've said that 698 00:37:28,080 --> 00:37:31,560 Speaker 2: you are like learning is obviously such a priority for you, 699 00:37:31,600 --> 00:37:34,879 Speaker 2: and that you are a lifelong learner. So I want 700 00:37:34,920 --> 00:37:36,920 Speaker 2: to ask about what are some of the things that 701 00:37:37,000 --> 00:37:40,280 Speaker 2: you consume that you found most valuable in terms of learning, 702 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 2: And given we are on a podcast, I want to 703 00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 2: start with podcasts, like are you Are you much of 704 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:45,400 Speaker 2: a podcast listener? 705 00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,200 Speaker 3: I love podcasts, So podcasts. 706 00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:54,759 Speaker 1: Podcasts are amazing way for me to get across information. 707 00:37:54,880 --> 00:37:57,719 Speaker 1: And I also love you know, I'm a bit of 708 00:37:57,760 --> 00:38:02,600 Speaker 1: an inspiration junkie and I find other people's stories really inspiring. 709 00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:06,960 Speaker 1: So just listening to podcasts, listening to interviews, I really 710 00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:07,839 Speaker 1: get a lot out of it. 711 00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:11,680 Speaker 2: And so what are your kind of top two or 712 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,560 Speaker 2: three go to podcasts or even interviews on podcasts that 713 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,360 Speaker 2: you've found particularly helpful or inspiring or valuable. One of 714 00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:22,320 Speaker 2: the things that I've been really focused on learning in 715 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:26,239 Speaker 2: the last couple of years is driving change. So it's 716 00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:28,919 Speaker 2: listening to, you know, the likes of people like Tim 717 00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:33,680 Speaker 2: Ferris and if he talks about any tips of driving change. 718 00:38:34,239 --> 00:38:38,760 Speaker 2: I listened to this wonderful podcast the other day from 719 00:38:39,040 --> 00:38:44,160 Speaker 2: the CEO who set up Facebook, for example in Australia 720 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,600 Speaker 2: or you know, a number of years ago, and he 721 00:38:46,719 --> 00:38:48,640 Speaker 2: was interviewed by a really good friend of mine called 722 00:38:48,719 --> 00:38:52,400 Speaker 2: Julie Masters, and she runs a fabulous podcast called Inside 723 00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,640 Speaker 2: Influence and she really gets down and deep with some 724 00:38:55,680 --> 00:39:00,960 Speaker 2: of these amazing people similarly to yourself, and you know, 725 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,040 Speaker 2: just learning from the CEO of Facebook on the way 726 00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:09,960 Speaker 2: that brands and people get attention these days using social 727 00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:14,200 Speaker 2: media and how media is completely changed from mass to 728 00:39:14,239 --> 00:39:17,279 Speaker 2: that one on one channels, and then therefore how does 729 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:21,040 Speaker 2: your business have to change? Yeah, so Inside Influence I'll 730 00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:23,520 Speaker 2: lick to that in the show notes. I haven't come 731 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:28,480 Speaker 2: across that one, but that sounds very very cool. You 732 00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 2: mentioned books that you're a big reader. What what are 733 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,719 Speaker 2: maybe one or two or three books that you've read 734 00:39:35,760 --> 00:39:38,160 Speaker 2: recently that have had a big impact on you. 735 00:39:38,760 --> 00:39:41,759 Speaker 1: So I'm a big reader in the fact that I 736 00:39:41,760 --> 00:39:42,640 Speaker 1: love buying books. 737 00:39:42,719 --> 00:39:43,560 Speaker 3: I'm not a big. 738 00:39:43,360 --> 00:39:46,160 Speaker 4: Reader because I can never get past page twenty without 739 00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 4: falling asleep. So but I I did recently start a 740 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,319 Speaker 4: book that I ended up watching a Ted talk to 741 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:54,920 Speaker 4: finish it. 742 00:39:56,280 --> 00:39:58,200 Speaker 1: But it was it was on the it was on 743 00:39:58,239 --> 00:40:03,640 Speaker 1: the growth mindset and it was written by I guess 744 00:40:03,960 --> 00:40:06,279 Speaker 1: a doctor and a psychologist. 745 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:09,359 Speaker 2: Probably Carol Dweck. I think that's it. 746 00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:13,200 Speaker 1: Yes, So, you know, I found that extremely valuable because 747 00:40:13,280 --> 00:40:15,360 Speaker 1: it really does all start with your mindset at the 748 00:40:15,440 --> 00:40:17,400 Speaker 1: end of the day, and you know, when you're running 749 00:40:17,400 --> 00:40:20,760 Speaker 1: a business and you're dealing with challenges and change and people, 750 00:40:21,440 --> 00:40:24,200 Speaker 1: you know, I'm really focused on making sure that my 751 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,200 Speaker 1: mindset is isn't a really good place and it's as 752 00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:31,000 Speaker 1: positive and as excited as and energized as it can be. 753 00:40:31,360 --> 00:40:34,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, that's a great recommendation. I will link to that 754 00:40:34,520 --> 00:40:38,759 Speaker 2: as well. And are there any any newsletters that you 755 00:40:39,000 --> 00:40:42,560 Speaker 2: subscribe to that you that you think, you know sort 756 00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:43,480 Speaker 2: of must reads? 757 00:40:44,120 --> 00:40:47,360 Speaker 1: Yes, I mean it's it's pretty much every day on 758 00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:52,200 Speaker 1: a daily level. I obviously read the AFR, and I 759 00:40:52,239 --> 00:40:54,520 Speaker 1: also read a lot about the industry I'm in. 760 00:40:54,560 --> 00:40:56,560 Speaker 3: There's so much changes going on in. 761 00:40:56,480 --> 00:41:01,440 Speaker 1: Beauty and fashion and you know, I guess different cosmetics 762 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:02,640 Speaker 1: and regulation. 763 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:07,040 Speaker 2: And my last question finally, Piper, is if people want 764 00:41:07,080 --> 00:41:10,080 Speaker 2: to know more about you or read your new book, 765 00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,760 Speaker 2: Bold Moves, how can they do that? How can people 766 00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:15,399 Speaker 2: learn more about you and what you're up to and 767 00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:17,200 Speaker 2: read your book? 768 00:41:17,640 --> 00:41:21,040 Speaker 1: So my book's going on sale from April first in 769 00:41:21,120 --> 00:41:26,200 Speaker 1: all major bookstores, which is super exciting, so dimics and 770 00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:31,759 Speaker 1: independent bookstores book topia around Australia. Or alternatively, you can 771 00:41:31,840 --> 00:41:35,959 Speaker 1: jump online to the Alabache website and you'll you'll find 772 00:41:36,000 --> 00:41:36,359 Speaker 1: me there. 773 00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:39,120 Speaker 2: Excellent and that is alabashet dot com. 774 00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:43,200 Speaker 3: I assume are you sorry dot a dot com? Are 775 00:41:43,239 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 3: you yeah? 776 00:41:43,880 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 2: Excellent? Pepper, it has been lovely having you on the show. 777 00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:49,400 Speaker 2: Thank you so much for sharing your insights. 778 00:41:49,760 --> 00:41:51,480 Speaker 3: Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was 779 00:41:51,520 --> 00:41:52,360 Speaker 3: great to chat to you. 780 00:41:53,680 --> 00:41:56,640 Speaker 2: That is it for today's show. I hope you liked 781 00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,799 Speaker 2: my chat with Pipper. I think my favorite being from 782 00:41:59,880 --> 00:42:04,160 Speaker 2: that interview was her framework for meetings where one problem, 783 00:42:04,760 --> 00:42:08,960 Speaker 2: three solutions, and one recommendation. I think that's so cool. 784 00:42:08,960 --> 00:42:13,200 Speaker 2: I'm definitely going to use that at my workplace. So 785 00:42:13,440 --> 00:42:16,920 Speaker 2: if you liked today, why not tell other people about it, 786 00:42:17,040 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 2: and if you're feeling extra generous, maybe leave a review 787 00:42:19,760 --> 00:42:22,640 Speaker 2: in Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. 788 00:42:22,719 --> 00:42:24,799 Speaker 2: You might want to leave a rating that's super quick 789 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:27,600 Speaker 2: and easy, just click on the stars, or maybe you 790 00:42:27,640 --> 00:42:30,560 Speaker 2: write some words they bring a hugemile to my face. 791 00:42:30,680 --> 00:42:33,600 Speaker 2: There it's some lovely, lovely reviews that people have left, 792 00:42:33,680 --> 00:42:35,680 Speaker 2: so thank you if you are one of those people. 793 00:42:36,400 --> 00:42:38,200 Speaker 2: So those do it for today and I'll see you 794 00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:38,920 Speaker 2: next time.