1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:02,360 Speaker 1: Have been talking quite a bit about the issues in 2 00:00:02,400 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: Central Australia of late. But I've got to tell you 3 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,640 Speaker 1: I got told about this interview by ABC Alice Springs 4 00:00:10,360 --> 00:00:14,040 Speaker 1: last week. An elderly woman hiding in her own home 5 00:00:14,200 --> 00:00:17,800 Speaker 1: in suburban Alice Springs after a spate of breakings over 6 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: the past month. Now, Daphne Oldfield eighty four apparently lives alone, 7 00:00:22,960 --> 00:00:25,720 Speaker 1: uses a walking frame and is terrified of leaving her 8 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:30,320 Speaker 1: east side house even to sit in her own garden oasis. 9 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:34,120 Speaker 1: So that's what her daughter had told told the radio 10 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,040 Speaker 1: station down there in Alice of the issues that they're 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:40,600 Speaker 1: experiencing right now, and it really got us thinking, how 12 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,479 Speaker 1: are seniors around the Northern Territory feeling about the issues 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:46,200 Speaker 1: that we have got at the moment when it comes 14 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:46,720 Speaker 1: to crime. 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:48,640 Speaker 2: And joining us on the line. 16 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: To give us a bit of insight is Sue Shearer 17 00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,640 Speaker 1: from Kota, the Council of the Aging here in the 18 00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 1: Northern Territory. 19 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:57,520 Speaker 2: Good morning to you, Sue, Good morning Katy. 20 00:00:57,560 --> 00:01:01,360 Speaker 3: I'm in downtown Alice Springs at the moment. So yes, 21 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,880 Speaker 3: it's a little bit cooler than Darwin, but not much. 22 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: No. 23 00:01:04,640 --> 00:01:07,319 Speaker 2: Oh well, I'm glad. Well you know it would be 24 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 2: nice for them to be having some nice weather. So 25 00:01:10,319 --> 00:01:11,959 Speaker 2: I tell you what this story. 26 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:16,080 Speaker 1: About eighty four year old Daphne living alone and being 27 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:20,680 Speaker 1: quite afraid after a spate of breakings. You must have 28 00:01:20,720 --> 00:01:23,440 Speaker 1: been pretty upset when you'd heard this one. 29 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:27,399 Speaker 4: I was, And I've known the Oldfield family a long time, 30 00:01:27,600 --> 00:01:32,200 Speaker 4: and I'm sure you'll agree. In our golden years, Debbie 31 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:37,279 Speaker 4: and Daphney, they've both worked very hard for their home. 32 00:01:37,360 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 4: A home is a castle. 33 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,440 Speaker 3: And if you can't enjoy your golden years and feel 34 00:01:42,480 --> 00:01:45,360 Speaker 3: safe in your home, what sort of society are we? 35 00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 3: That's the main thing. She should feel very safe in 36 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:51,720 Speaker 3: her home and be able to enjoy it, but at 37 00:01:51,720 --> 00:01:54,600 Speaker 3: the moment she can't. But the other question would be 38 00:01:54,640 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 3: as well. The government in their twenty sixteen dis government 39 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,560 Speaker 3: government an election promise was to build a retirement village 40 00:02:04,000 --> 00:02:06,760 Speaker 3: down here in Alice Springs. Now that's the type of 41 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:11,120 Speaker 3: thing that Daphne could self her home move in to 42 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,600 Speaker 3: the retirement village. It would be a gated retirement village 43 00:02:14,960 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 3: and be able to enjoy her gardens. You know, it 44 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,280 Speaker 3: would be planned that way and feel safe. And a 45 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:24,680 Speaker 3: lot of seniors have been waiting on this retirement village, 46 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,000 Speaker 3: I'd say, you know, for a long long time that 47 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 3: could be part of the solution for seniors to downgrade, yeah, 48 00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 3: and to go into that one. But the problem with 49 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:38,760 Speaker 3: that is the land claims. But I do believe there 50 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:42,639 Speaker 3: is some land along Stephens Road that one of the developers, 51 00:02:42,680 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 3: Brendan Heenan, has been looking at. We've been calling for 52 00:02:46,240 --> 00:02:48,720 Speaker 3: this for a long time also, and. 53 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:50,520 Speaker 2: It would go part of the way, So no doubt 54 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 2: about that. 55 00:02:51,280 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 1: And there would be some people who be very keen 56 00:02:54,240 --> 00:02:58,399 Speaker 1: to move into a retirement home somewhere like Central Australia. 57 00:02:58,480 --> 00:03:01,080 Speaker 2: But so on that issue of time, what our. 58 00:03:00,960 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: Scene is in Central Australia and also up here at 59 00:03:03,960 --> 00:03:06,080 Speaker 1: the top end saying to you right now. 60 00:03:07,000 --> 00:03:09,280 Speaker 3: Well, I had they're frightened, they won't go out on 61 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:14,000 Speaker 3: their own. So this is causing isolation, it's causing fear 62 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:18,720 Speaker 3: and it's traumatizing scene is I know we have about 63 00:03:18,760 --> 00:03:21,240 Speaker 3: thirty people in on a Monday in dal And doing 64 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:26,079 Speaker 3: pilates and then another thirty doing armchair aerobic since they 65 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 3: come in into my office every time they're in there 66 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,440 Speaker 3: and they're not going to Casarina. They're too frightened to 67 00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:36,480 Speaker 3: go to casina. So again, what should be a nice 68 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 3: outing and a nice shopping trip is turning into something 69 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,960 Speaker 3: so traumatizing. And the same down here. They don't go out, 70 00:03:44,080 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 3: they don't take if they do, they don't take their bags. 71 00:03:46,760 --> 00:03:51,160 Speaker 3: They go in groups. Now, really, who's suffering here? I 72 00:03:51,200 --> 00:03:54,640 Speaker 3: know sometimes people saying no, the children doing this. We 73 00:03:54,760 --> 00:03:56,960 Speaker 3: know that, we know they haven't got a role model, 74 00:03:57,280 --> 00:04:00,200 Speaker 3: but they haven't got a home life. But something has 75 00:04:00,240 --> 00:04:04,040 Speaker 3: to happen. Why should we seniors be living in fear 76 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:07,600 Speaker 3: and as I said, not enjoying golden years. We have 77 00:04:07,880 --> 00:04:11,160 Speaker 3: contributed to the growth of the Northern Church, to the 78 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 3: economic and the social fabric of the Northern Turkey. And 79 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:17,320 Speaker 3: here we are, we're hiding in our own homes, and 80 00:04:17,360 --> 00:04:20,159 Speaker 3: even in our own homes we aren't safe. 81 00:04:20,440 --> 00:04:23,320 Speaker 1: So that makes me feel bloody sad, you know, to 82 00:04:23,400 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 1: think that you've got seens that are frightened to go 83 00:04:26,800 --> 00:04:30,360 Speaker 1: on their shopping trips, You've got seens that are frightened 84 00:04:30,480 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: to go, you know, down the mall, let's say, in 85 00:04:33,080 --> 00:04:33,880 Speaker 1: Alice Springs. 86 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 2: It's actually really sad. 87 00:04:37,839 --> 00:04:42,719 Speaker 3: It's more than sad, it's actually dehumanizing for those particular 88 00:04:42,760 --> 00:04:46,240 Speaker 3: geneis they don't feel wanted, they don't feel valued. And 89 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,080 Speaker 3: also I went down shopping in Wallis the other day 90 00:04:50,120 --> 00:04:53,359 Speaker 3: where a friend of mine's, a daughter and her daughter 91 00:04:54,040 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 3: were locked inside because there was a couple of people 92 00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,960 Speaker 3: running right with machetes. Now, that young girl who's only six, 93 00:05:01,520 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 3: won't go into Alice Springs at all. 94 00:05:04,080 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 2: And so that was in Alice. That was in Alice Springs. 95 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 3: That incident in Alice, yep, yep. And they won't they won't. 96 00:05:10,320 --> 00:05:11,880 Speaker 3: They'll all be leaving at the end of the year. 97 00:05:11,920 --> 00:05:14,200 Speaker 3: And there's been some I don't want to name them 98 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:16,359 Speaker 3: at the moment, but some people who were born and 99 00:05:16,480 --> 00:05:21,280 Speaker 3: broke here, had businesses here, contributed they're leaving too at 100 00:05:21,279 --> 00:05:24,680 Speaker 3: the end of next year. So really, unless it is, 101 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:31,359 Speaker 3: it's absolutely discussing. I went out in Alice and really 102 00:05:31,440 --> 00:05:33,640 Speaker 3: I've never felt like that before. I was looking over 103 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:37,279 Speaker 3: my shoulder, I had stopped when somebody bumped into me 104 00:05:37,560 --> 00:05:41,680 Speaker 3: or did this. I felt threatened doing my shopping. 105 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:45,360 Speaker 1: And so do you think that that is because of 106 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,840 Speaker 1: all the media coverage or do you think that that 107 00:05:48,000 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: is because of how you actually feel when you're walking 108 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:52,240 Speaker 1: down the street. 109 00:05:53,760 --> 00:05:55,920 Speaker 3: You feel you see all the young people with all 110 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,159 Speaker 3: these bracelets on their legs. So excuse me, Katie, what 111 00:05:59,200 --> 00:05:59,760 Speaker 3: does that mean? 112 00:06:00,800 --> 00:06:03,200 Speaker 4: You know, yeah, they're out on parole. 113 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 3: They're not They're not the good kids are the naughty kids. 114 00:06:06,520 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 3: But it is it's just as I said, And there 115 00:06:09,920 --> 00:06:13,720 Speaker 3: are targeting sceneings because seniors can't defend themselves. We can't 116 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:17,560 Speaker 3: run away quickly, you know. And it's it's just and 117 00:06:17,640 --> 00:06:19,479 Speaker 3: some of the ideas, like I was in a meeting 118 00:06:19,560 --> 00:06:22,760 Speaker 3: yesterday when the mayor was there as well, and I 119 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:24,680 Speaker 3: think he's had his wits end as well, some of 120 00:06:24,720 --> 00:06:27,000 Speaker 3: the ideas they put up. Why can't we try it? 121 00:06:27,040 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 3: Why can't we try having dog patrols, Why can't we 122 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,599 Speaker 3: have try having a curfew. Why can't we the norn 123 00:06:34,680 --> 00:06:38,600 Speaker 3: Churchy government, the council has some safe places, like when 124 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:42,080 Speaker 3: Daphney doesn't feel safe in her home, she can go 125 00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:45,800 Speaker 3: somewhere because they lose confidence. We all lose confidence and 126 00:06:45,880 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 3: we can't defend ourselves when where we feel like we're 127 00:06:49,120 --> 00:06:53,400 Speaker 3: under attack, the though traumatized, we lose confidence. Until her 128 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:56,120 Speaker 3: home is made safe, then she could move back to 129 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,080 Speaker 3: her home. There's those things that can be an immediate 130 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,080 Speaker 3: it's not the immediate exploy any means, but it's just 131 00:07:02,240 --> 00:07:07,120 Speaker 3: something that can be done very quickly. And yeah, very quickly, 132 00:07:07,200 --> 00:07:11,480 Speaker 3: Katie's these poor scene as as I said and me included, Yeah, 133 00:07:11,520 --> 00:07:14,080 Speaker 3: I've never felt as threatened as I felt yesterday. 134 00:07:14,920 --> 00:07:17,640 Speaker 1: So what is your message for the government this morning 135 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: on this issue, because honestly, I feel like I've spoken 136 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,200 Speaker 1: about it till I'm blue in the face, and you know, 137 00:07:23,360 --> 00:07:26,080 Speaker 1: you sort of hear from the government that they're going 138 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:28,680 Speaker 1: to try this and that. But the fact is, you know, 139 00:07:28,720 --> 00:07:31,960 Speaker 1: from what you are telling me right now, it's a 140 00:07:32,080 --> 00:07:35,400 Speaker 1: terrible situation that our seniors don't feel safe to be 141 00:07:35,480 --> 00:07:38,200 Speaker 1: able to go and do their shopping in Alice Springs, 142 00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:40,040 Speaker 1: that they don't feel safe to go and do that 143 00:07:40,160 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: here in the top end, like something has to change. 144 00:07:44,240 --> 00:07:45,920 Speaker 3: I agree with you've been blue in the face that 145 00:07:45,960 --> 00:07:49,320 Speaker 3: I would say they've probably got some long term solutions. 146 00:07:49,320 --> 00:07:52,000 Speaker 3: But again, a lot of these kids are fasciated, so 147 00:07:52,480 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 3: there's no point trying to rewire them or do anything. 148 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,680 Speaker 3: They've got their damage, their damaged children. As I said, 149 00:07:59,720 --> 00:08:02,560 Speaker 3: there's no role model, there's no home, there's no food. 150 00:08:02,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 3: That's what are going to do. You're going to walk 151 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,360 Speaker 3: the streets. So really I would like to see and 152 00:08:07,400 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 3: I'll be hailed down here. And this is not anything racist. 153 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:15,600 Speaker 3: This is to protect those children because, believe you me, Katie, 154 00:08:15,640 --> 00:08:18,160 Speaker 3: sooner or later, when they break into a home and 155 00:08:18,240 --> 00:08:21,480 Speaker 3: somebody wants to defend their home, their family and young children, 156 00:08:21,880 --> 00:08:24,760 Speaker 3: or he will break loose, and that's that's in the end, 157 00:08:24,840 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 3: what will happen, and then it'll be a horrible situation. 158 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:32,720 Speaker 3: And yes, it's just there's those things that I mentioned. 159 00:08:32,720 --> 00:08:35,120 Speaker 3: They can do right now, and the children should be 160 00:08:35,160 --> 00:08:37,679 Speaker 3: made water of the state. I think because of a 161 00:08:37,720 --> 00:08:41,040 Speaker 3: stolen generation, they're too frightened. But let's face it, if 162 00:08:41,080 --> 00:08:43,959 Speaker 3: their parents can't look after them, where are the parents 163 00:08:44,000 --> 00:08:48,840 Speaker 3: and the family can't We need, supposedly as a compassionate, 164 00:08:48,880 --> 00:08:52,120 Speaker 3: a humane society, look after them, But we can't look 165 00:08:52,160 --> 00:08:55,000 Speaker 3: after them when they're roaming the street and causing havoc. 166 00:08:55,120 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 3: So we need to astract them from that situation and 167 00:08:58,360 --> 00:09:01,560 Speaker 3: put them somewhere safe, whether that's two hundred five hundred 168 00:09:01,559 --> 00:09:04,840 Speaker 3: miles away. Then they learned a few manners and hopefully 169 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:07,480 Speaker 3: might be able to come back and contribute to society. 170 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,760 Speaker 1: But well, look s I know some people, some people 171 00:09:11,800 --> 00:09:14,120 Speaker 1: will not agree with that at all. You know, some 172 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:16,840 Speaker 1: people will, like you said, may hail you down, but 173 00:09:17,120 --> 00:09:18,199 Speaker 1: I think that right now. 174 00:09:18,480 --> 00:09:20,319 Speaker 2: You know, what is very plain. 175 00:09:20,160 --> 00:09:22,400 Speaker 1: To see, even from some of the vision that came 176 00:09:22,400 --> 00:09:24,520 Speaker 1: out of Central Australia on the weekend, is if you've 177 00:09:24,559 --> 00:09:27,319 Speaker 1: got kids that are behind the wheel of a stolen car, 178 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:30,000 Speaker 1: it's an incredibly dangerous situation. 179 00:09:29,679 --> 00:09:30,880 Speaker 2: For them as well. 180 00:09:31,280 --> 00:09:36,280 Speaker 1: And nobody wants to see kids in a dangerous situation either. Soon, 181 00:09:36,679 --> 00:09:39,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to have to move along because we are 182 00:09:39,559 --> 00:09:41,040 Speaker 1: we're fast running out of time. 183 00:09:41,080 --> 00:09:42,480 Speaker 2: But I also want to ask you. 184 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,599 Speaker 1: We know that there's yet another code yellow for the 185 00:09:46,679 --> 00:09:49,520 Speaker 1: Royal Darwin Hospital and Palmerston Regional Hospital. 186 00:09:50,120 --> 00:09:52,360 Speaker 2: They were called on Friday last week. 187 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:57,080 Speaker 1: I understand still in place right now, and there are 188 00:09:57,080 --> 00:09:59,280 Speaker 1: claims that some of those beds that are being taken 189 00:09:59,320 --> 00:10:02,320 Speaker 1: at the moment are indeed for seniors because there's nowhere 190 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:05,800 Speaker 1: else for them to go, and for elderly patients. 191 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:11,360 Speaker 5: What is your understanding if there's seventy five seniors in 192 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,280 Speaker 5: the Royal down hospitals shouldn't be there, They should be 193 00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:16,040 Speaker 5: at the seventy five beds case. 194 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:19,800 Speaker 3: Yeah, it could be either in a residential age chare 195 00:10:19,880 --> 00:10:22,720 Speaker 3: facility or they should be in their own homes with 196 00:10:22,840 --> 00:10:26,760 Speaker 3: their age care package Level four or in the dementia facility. 197 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,720 Speaker 3: So again that's how that sort of area is rather 198 00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 3: in crisis. I know the Northern Jursey government has bought 199 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,760 Speaker 3: sixty beds under the old bed licensing system, but they 200 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:41,880 Speaker 3: still yet have to be built the same as the 201 00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:44,520 Speaker 3: dementia center. So there's quite a bit of work Northern 202 00:10:44,600 --> 00:10:47,320 Speaker 3: Churchy needs to be done in health and obviously in crime, 203 00:10:47,679 --> 00:10:49,120 Speaker 3: and they need to get a wiggle on it. 204 00:10:49,440 --> 00:10:52,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, they most certainly do so, Shiera. Can I ask 205 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,160 Speaker 1: you just very quickly before I let you go? There 206 00:10:54,160 --> 00:10:57,200 Speaker 1: were some changes, wasn't there to the pension in the 207 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:01,880 Speaker 1: federal budget a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, well they 208 00:11:01,880 --> 00:11:03,760 Speaker 1: go ones in terms of how much it can earn. 209 00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 3: Oh that you can earn up to nine thousand, but 210 00:11:07,720 --> 00:11:10,439 Speaker 3: really with the cost of living, it should have been 211 00:11:10,679 --> 00:11:13,960 Speaker 3: made fifteen to twenty thousand actually, and then they still 212 00:11:14,040 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 3: might have been able to have private health insurance. Isn't 213 00:11:16,679 --> 00:11:19,880 Speaker 3: it isn't that interesting Katie that when Peter Dutton was 214 00:11:19,960 --> 00:11:22,640 Speaker 3: in power for nine years he've vetoed it all the time, 215 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 3: didn't want it to happen now as you're not positioned, 216 00:11:25,280 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 3: he's supporting it. Strange comings and goings. 217 00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,400 Speaker 1: I think you called that political games, don't you, Suezhira? Oh? 218 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:34,640 Speaker 3: And don't we get sick of them? 219 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,360 Speaker 1: We get so sick of them, there is no doubt 220 00:11:37,400 --> 00:11:39,400 Speaker 1: about that. I just wish that people would forget their 221 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: political lines sometimes and and you know, do what is 222 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:45,479 Speaker 1: right for Australians. 223 00:11:45,200 --> 00:11:49,320 Speaker 3: Sh don't we all? Yeah, more bipartisan and let's get 224 00:11:49,679 --> 00:11:52,719 Speaker 3: cracking on the health system and age care and get 225 00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:53,720 Speaker 3: quite a few things. 226 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:56,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, Okay, So I really appreciate your time 227 00:11:56,480 --> 00:11:59,960 Speaker 1: this morning. Thank you so much for being really bluntly 228 00:12:00,080 --> 00:12:02,120 Speaker 1: honest with us at the moment about how things are 229 00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,920 Speaker 1: for our seniors, particularly on that issue of crime. 230 00:12:05,920 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 3: Well, you know me, Katie, I only know how to 231 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:08,160 Speaker 3: be honest. 232 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:11,560 Speaker 2: That's exactly right. Good on you, Sue, Thank you. I 233 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,040 Speaker 2: appreciate your time this morning.