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Speaker 1: Hello. I'm art Simone, and I am ready to meet

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Speaker 1: someone exciting, someone interesting, someone who might just wow me

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Speaker 1: more than I wow myself. That's not very likely, is it.

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Speaker 1: One rule before we start is don't judge them on

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Speaker 1: first appearance. Please. Yes, they may seem a bit drab

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Speaker 1: or boring even, but I promise there will be something

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Speaker 1: worth sticking around for. Are you ready me too? Raw

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Speaker 1: the TI.

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Speaker 2: My name is Bastian Treptel. I recently sold a tech

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Speaker 2: firm for a bit of money. Not your normal nerd though.

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Speaker 2: I get right into car racing, motorbike racing, My daughter's

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Speaker 2: into go karting, and I just love all things adrenaline

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Speaker 2: based and just managed to get fourth in this strange drivers'

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Speaker 2: championship last year. But I'm hiding a dark secret from

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Speaker 2: my past.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hello, Bastin, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I'm good.

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Speaker 1: You're good. You're sitting in front of me today. You've

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Speaker 1: got a lovely blazer, slash suit, jacket on black shirt,

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Speaker 1: well groomed, lovely watch, a phone that folds in half. Creepy.

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Speaker 1: We'll get into that. And so you said you we

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Speaker 1: sold your tech Damn I did. Wow, I don't know

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Speaker 1: what that means a tech firm, firm tech, and then

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Speaker 1: you sold.

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Speaker 2: It firm tech. Let's go with that. No, I ran

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Speaker 2: a tech firm. I don't want to give away two

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Speaker 2: linked all right, but yeah I managed to sell it.

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Speaker 2: We're just recently in the fin review, so thin review.

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Speaker 2: So managed to retire, So pretty happy about that.

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Speaker 1: Thin review Finn review. Wait you're retired, I've retired. How

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Speaker 1: old did you say?

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Speaker 2: What do you say? How old you are? I'm not

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Speaker 2: supposed to give that away. Oh okay, give me a

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Speaker 2: ballpark in the forties.

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Speaker 1: Jesus crass, You've got your whole life ahead of you.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, no wonder you're going in the OZ

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Speaker 1: Driver's Championship. You could not have put me in a

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Speaker 1: room with someone who speaks a complete I think we're

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Speaker 1: from different worlds at the moment, and we're trying.

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Speaker 2: To middle meeting final spot.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, because I have no idea what you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Like you're cutting off some alleyways here though, no folding phones.

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Speaker 1: Well, okay, you have walked in with a folding phone

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Speaker 1: and they give me the creeps. I'm sorry, they're strange.

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Speaker 1: I don't know why to do the screens do that

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Speaker 1: that's weird. But also you're in the tech world, so

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Speaker 1: I can't make fun of them because you probably say

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Speaker 1: you invented it or something.

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Speaker 2: So definitely didn't invent it. Okay, thank god.

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Speaker 1: Now, but let's go back into OZ Drivers' Championship Driving what.

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Speaker 2: So they're open wheeler cars. They look like a lot

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Speaker 2: like Formula One cars, but without all a pesky rule.

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Speaker 2: So we battle each month for nothing more than a trophy.

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Speaker 1: Really, oh you battly? It sounds like that TV show

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Speaker 1: used to watch on SBS when they had Robot Wars

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Speaker 1: and they just like battle each other with Robot Wars.

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Speaker 1: Is it like that?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Well, one of the founders, John Crook, he came

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Speaker 2: out to me, disregard any health or any concerns for

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Speaker 2: your own safety and do everything to win for a

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Speaker 2: small plastic trophy.

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Speaker 1: The kind of waivers do you have to sign to go?

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Speaker 2: I don't think they even have waivers. They don't have

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Speaker 2: lawyers yet, you know, we just roll with it.

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Speaker 1: Okay, So cars, motorbikes. You have a daughter who likes

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Speaker 1: go cutting lots of wheels. Wheels on the go, okay,

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Speaker 1: but not on the go because where do you need

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Speaker 1: to be you've retired. Jeez, that's crazy. Okay, I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: ask you three questions, and from the answers to those

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Speaker 1: three questions, I have to work out what it is

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Speaker 1: that you're concealing from me today.

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Speaker 2: Okay, wet st you're ready, I'm ready.

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Speaker 1: Okay. Question number one, if you had to pick one

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Speaker 1: random accessory to wear with every outfit, what would it be?

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Speaker 2: Well? I like this one. A white hat.

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Speaker 1: A white hat, yes, white hat. I don't think when

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Speaker 1: I hear white hats umpires do they wear what? I

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Speaker 1: don't know, sport or cars.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying. I don't like sports either, So we agree

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Speaker 2: on that one.

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Speaker 1: Okay, white hats. Okay. Question number two, what is the

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Speaker 1: best gift you have ever received?

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Speaker 2: Or it would be a toss up between my grandfather

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Speaker 2: gifting me my first computer and my other grandparents giving

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Speaker 2: me my first motorcycle?

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, I just go around in circles now,

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Speaker 1: aren't we. I'm we're back to the motorcycles and the

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Speaker 1: wheels and all of that.

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Speaker 2: I gave you a pretty good clue on the first one. Okay,

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Speaker 2: white hat. Yeah, and the computer's a good one as now.

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Speaker 1: I'm trying. I'm trying white hat, so computer. Maybe you

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Speaker 1: invented white hats on motorbikes. I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I'm just putting pulled it out of the hat in one.

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Speaker 1: Okay, No, no, don't don't. It's my process, Thank you, Bastian.

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Speaker 1: It's my process. Okay. Question number three I have you

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Speaker 1: is if you had to have a complete career change,

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Speaker 1: something completely different to what you do now, what would

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Speaker 1: it be.

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Speaker 2: Look, I think I would be I know you're going

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Speaker 2: to hate this answer, a racing car driver. Or I

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Speaker 2: would go into space and explore.

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Speaker 1: Okay, space is fun. Okay, you're like risking your life

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Speaker 1: traveling at high speeds. Love motorbikes, white.

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Speaker 2: Hats, white hats. That's the good clue.

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Speaker 1: Okay, maybe your white hat. Didn't You just said hat,

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Speaker 1: didn't you? You didn't specify what type of hat.

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Speaker 2: It could be? Any hat?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, any hat, Like space homes are white.

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Speaker 2: Do you want more clues?

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Speaker 1: No? No, this is the rules. White hat traveling to space,

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Speaker 1: computer from your grandparents, motorcycle from your grandparents. You like racing,

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Speaker 1: and you sold a tech company? All right, what the hell? Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to guess that you invented the technology that

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Speaker 1: makes the cargo from from what do you think is

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Speaker 1: that it?

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Speaker 2: Did?

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Speaker 1: I get it right?

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Speaker 2: Cue the gold buttons. Everything's falling down here, bang.

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Speaker 1: On, don't tease me. I'm trying.

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Speaker 2: As a teenager, I broke into a bank and stole

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Speaker 2: forty thousand credit cards as a hacker.

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Speaker 1: Basically, what you're a hacker?

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Speaker 2: I was a hacker. Well, I guess I still am.

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Speaker 1: Oh my god, star, what's the hack got to do

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Speaker 1: with anything?

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Speaker 2: Well, when you're a good hacker, you wear a white hat.

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Speaker 2: When you're a bad hacker, you wear the black hat. Also,

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Speaker 2: you know the colloquialism say, oh.

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Speaker 1: My goodness, yeah, you're a criminal.

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Speaker 2: I am criminal?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, oh yeah, sorry from reformed reformed criminal. I can't

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Speaker 1: make talk about the pipeline from hacking credit cards to

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Speaker 1: sitting in front of a drag queen on a podcast.

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Speaker 2: Ah, how good is it?

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Speaker 1: You said you stole forty thousand people's credit card information?

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Speaker 1: What tell me the story, please?

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Speaker 2: Well, technically, I just broke into the bank, so this

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Speaker 2: is a long time ago, and the system that issues

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Speaker 2: the card numbers is how we got them, So it

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Speaker 2: wasn't really anyone's credit card number yet, so to me,

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Speaker 2: it was a victimless crime. Ah, and I ordered many pizzas,

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Speaker 2: which I still pay for to this day. And that's

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Speaker 2: how I eventually got busted. I got so blase because

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Speaker 2: it was so long after the crime that nothing happened.

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Speaker 2: I was starting to order pizzas to my own house,

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Speaker 2: to my friend's houses.

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Speaker 1: So these were credit cards that didn't have people attached

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Speaker 1: to them yet, correct.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so you could activate them and just use the number.

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Speaker 2: It was pretty cool. So no, it wasn't. That's about

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Speaker 2: I'm not supposed to say that. Don't do that kids.

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Speaker 1: And how long was that before you got access to

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Speaker 1: this and then when you got caught about.

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Speaker 2: Three nearly four years? Jeez?

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Speaker 1: So how old were you? Did you say?

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Speaker 2: When I was around fourteen when I started to play

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Speaker 2: with computers, I was a really curious kid, and I

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Speaker 2: sort of got mentored a little bit by a few

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Speaker 2: people online, and some of them went to jail. I

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Speaker 2: managed to avoid jail. It just did community service.

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Speaker 1: So how did it start with you getting gifted a

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Speaker 1: computer to then getting into this world of internet hacking?

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Speaker 1: How do you progress from that where you just you

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Speaker 1: said you're curious.

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Speaker 2: Super curious, like, for example, you cannot imagine how much

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Speaker 2: of a little crap I was to my parents. So

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Speaker 2: I realized that the problem with our cohol is it

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Speaker 2: has our cohol. So there was a gap between my

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Speaker 2: parents coming home and me finishing school, and I got

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Speaker 2: their entire alcohol collection rang up all these universities, learnt

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Speaker 2: through these universities how to remove alcohol from alcohol, and

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Speaker 2: blended their entire like fifteen year wine collection into a

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Speaker 2: boiler and condensed all the alcohol out of this and

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Speaker 2: then poured it all back. Is a nice rose set

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Speaker 2: the house on fire at the same time as well. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: they were not stoked.

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Speaker 1: So you were what they call in the industry a

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Speaker 1: little shit.

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Speaker 2: A little shit, Yeah, I was one hundred cent shoff's

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Speaker 2: a llwed to swear.

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Speaker 1: Oh no you can, You're okay, Hey, this is how

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Speaker 1: genius has happened. I've seen the movies, I've read the documentaries.

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Speaker 1: No I haven't. That's not even a sentence, but I

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Speaker 1: get it. Okay. So you were very curious and then

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Speaker 1: you get a computer. I guess you do all the

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Speaker 1: normal things that people do on a computer, and then

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Speaker 1: you go, well, what else can I do with it?

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Speaker 2: This is a tool, Well, how does it work, right,

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Speaker 2: how did the banks work, how did businesses work? And

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Speaker 2: then you know, there was it was a long time er, right,

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Speaker 2: it was like ninety nine, six ninety seven. I'm showing

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Speaker 2: my age now. So there was these communities online and

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Speaker 2: I was, you know, you'd never believe it, but I

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Speaker 2: was a bit teased at school being a nerd, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: these people online were like, hey, welcome to this new world,

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Speaker 2: and they were to me it was exciting. Like I

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Speaker 2: recently got to meet Kevin Mitnick. He's a famous hack,

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Speaker 2: probably one of the most famous hackers before he passed away.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, it was cool to hang around with those people.

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Speaker 2: We broke into satellites, banks, other businesses that I was

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Speaker 2: never convicted for. But yeah, I'm pretty sure the statute

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Speaker 2: of limitations is over on that. In fact, I now.

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Speaker 1: Work with your late nineteen hundred. So yeah, you know exactly,

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Speaker 1: it's all right. We've moved into the next century. Because

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Speaker 1: I think back to my first arm in a computer

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Speaker 1: and I used to be the one that all the

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Speaker 1: teachers used to call in to like do the computer

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Speaker 1: things for them, Like I got like an announcement of

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Speaker 1: the thing that pa being like, oh, Gonzonzo come and

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Speaker 1: help in five A and da da Dad was me

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Speaker 1: to go and setup the protective for them, or.

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Speaker 2: Do this or do that?

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Speaker 1: So I was really interested, but then the technology evolved

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Speaker 1: way too fast in my skill set.

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Speaker 2: How did you keep ahead with it or ahead of it?

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Speaker 2: Like so that's the worst thing about this industry, right,

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Speaker 2: You've constantly got to learn. It's just like now with AI,

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Speaker 2: it's a whole new thing to learn. Yeah, so I

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Speaker 2: don't know. I just was just stupidly continuously just learning, learning, learning, NonStop.

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Speaker 1: So whose decision is it? Does hack into the bank?

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Speaker 2: I use this old net bios hack like won't get

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Speaker 2: too techy, but essentially managed to get in with this

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Speaker 2: net biass hack. And then it was more about how

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Speaker 2: does this work? How does this work? And then I'm like,

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Speaker 2: oh my god, that's how they connect to Visa, that's

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Speaker 2: how they connect to master Guard. And then can I

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Speaker 2: get a credit card? How does that work? Can you

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Speaker 2: use a credit cardinal? But it was all just like

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Speaker 2: can you can? You? Can you? And there was a

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Speaker 2: bit of bragging about it as well, so you know,

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Speaker 2: and you're in the community like guess what, I'm just

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Speaker 2: like fully into the ma Remula Conwalk Bank branch here

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Speaker 2: and they're.

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Speaker 1: Like, what, that's a good thing to touch on too,

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Speaker 1: is the community aspect of it, because there is a

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Speaker 1: full community out there, and it's really easy to engage

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Speaker 1: and to talk to people, and you build a lot

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Speaker 1: of friendships that way. I remember I used to be

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Speaker 1: on forums, used to be in little little minus a

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Speaker 1: teen forums. Is like a young little gay person being

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Speaker 1: able to talk to other people like me or like

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Speaker 1: throughout the country and realize that, you know, I've got

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Speaker 1: other friends out there that are interested in the same

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Speaker 1: things that you are, So I can understand how those

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Speaker 1: communities build and then become passionate and then also competitive.

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Speaker 2: Yes, definitely, And it was I mean, we didn't think

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Speaker 2: we were doing anything that wrong, Like we even let

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Speaker 2: this well I'm allowed to say now. So I spoke

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Speaker 2: at south By Southwest for the Commonwealth Bank and I

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Speaker 2: got to meet some of the arresting offices from the AFP.

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Speaker 2: I now work with the AFP to help children. So

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Speaker 2: it's all come full circle. Hey, But yeah, it was.

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Speaker 2: It was an interesting time.

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Speaker 1: So you bought some pizzas with many credit card information

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Speaker 1: and money? What else did you buy anything anything fun

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Speaker 1: or notable.

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Speaker 2: No, I was kind of aware that it was sort

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Speaker 2: of wrong. I think I paid for some textbooks and

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Speaker 2: education in pizzas, and I was about it. I should

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Speaker 2: have bought more cool stuff. But I feel like I

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Speaker 2: would have gone to jail.

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Speaker 1: Oh true. I guess when they tally up all the pizzas,

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Speaker 1: they're like, look, how long did you get in your

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Speaker 1: community service?

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Speaker 2: So I had to one hundred and fifty hours, so

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Speaker 2: get this right. So I met so the lady that

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Speaker 2: I work with in the reboot program. We get all

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Speaker 2: these kids who are little delinquents and we get them

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Speaker 2: placed in the industry. And if I'd done the crime

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Speaker 2: that I did back then, now, I probably would have

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Speaker 2: got ten plus years.

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Speaker 1: Well, it's going to say, it's like the knowledge around

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Speaker 1: and all of this as well has progressed, and it's

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Speaker 1: I don't know, it's seen. It's like a bit more

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Speaker 1: of an intense thing to happen.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, there there was only three people that worked

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Speaker 2: in the cyber department when I got done. I got

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Speaker 2: to meet one of them. That was incredible. And yeah,

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Speaker 2: now it's properly listed as a crime. It's its own

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Speaker 2: subsection of the law and it's yeah, you get in

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Speaker 2: a lot of trouble.

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Speaker 1: So what's the situation about you being caught? Because you know,

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Speaker 1: how did it happen. Did they run in and go

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Speaker 1: I stopped to get off the computer or did they

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Speaker 1: just call everything like hey, are you stealing money? What's

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Speaker 1: going on?

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Speaker 2: No? Look, I wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Yeah, it's

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Speaker 2: not a nice thing for parents to go through. My

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Speaker 2: parents had a whole bunch of horrible stuff go through

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Speaker 2: with police. If anyone who's thinking about being a hacker

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Speaker 2: as a kid, a you'd go to jail. So don't

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Speaker 2: do it. But yeah, it's pretty brutal on your family,

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Speaker 2: Like they the police. You're a kid, remember, right, So

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Speaker 2: they police have this pretty genuine way of making you

295
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Speaker 2: think like you're probably going to die this afternoon. Everything

296
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Speaker 2: in your life is over. Do you think you're going

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Speaker 2: to finish school? No, you're not. Do you think you're

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Speaker 2: going to keep going to university? Not happening? Do you

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Speaker 2: think you can ever get a again? Like, you need

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Speaker 2: to tell us exactly what happens right now? And then

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Speaker 2: you've watched every police show and you know in your

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Speaker 2: head as a little teenager. You're like, don't talk if

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Speaker 2: you say if you don't say anything, you'll be fine.

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Speaker 2: And that doesn't go down so well either. Uh, and

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Speaker 2: then you know you got crying parents and disappointed relatives

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Speaker 2: and yeah, I remember kind of after they like come

307
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Speaker 2: and get you or did they call you in or yeah,

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Speaker 2: they kind of got us. Yeah, yeah, absolutely, And I

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Speaker 2: was like like a proper little shit.

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Speaker 1: Well, I think one thing I'm learning from today is

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Speaker 1: that the growth that you've had is impeccable.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, a fine an upstanding citizen there. Yeah, that's Oh

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Speaker 2: my god. Did your parents have any idea or was

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Speaker 2: this No? I think it's really similar to now. Right,

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Speaker 2: So my parents thought I was clever on the computer.

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Speaker 2: I didn't really it was going on. There's a case

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Speaker 2: of a kid here in Fine, North Queensland who wanted

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Speaker 2: to pay off his mum's mortgage, got groomed online by

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Speaker 2: Russian hackers taught him to hack stole twenty two million

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Speaker 2: US dollars recently. He's now doing twenty five years in

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Speaker 2: a state penitentiary prison in California, which is horrible. Right,

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Speaker 2: And he's parents, when they were interviewed, were the same

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Speaker 2: like we just thought he was a clever kid. We

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Speaker 2: had no idea and his motive was so pure as well,

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Speaker 2: right to pay off his mum's mortgage. So parents out there,

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Speaker 2: go and sit on roadblocks, and go and sit on

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Speaker 2: Minecraft because there's some hectic stuff going on there coming up.

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Speaker 1: Bastian explains to us exactly what hackers are up to

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Speaker 1: these days and how you can protect yourself. Oh and

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Speaker 1: I try to hack into my MySpace account using three

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Speaker 1: little tips from Bastian. Oh all right, so we're here

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Speaker 1: with Batscian, the ex convicted criminal hacker, former bad guy

333
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Speaker 1: turned good guy. I want to know what a hacker

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Speaker 1: is exactly up to these days, what's going on, how

335
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Speaker 1: have they advanced?

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Speaker 2: It's terrifying, right, So I actually go and get to

337
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Speaker 2: meet some of these hackers in Asia, and one of

338
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Speaker 2: them told me recently, goes, I'm winning with my slowest

339
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Speaker 2: racehorse at the moment. I'm not giving away the capabilities

340
00:14:55,120 --> 00:14:57,520
Speaker 2: that I have because once I show my capabilities, then

341
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Speaker 2: the defenses arise. So their AI based tools. For example,

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Speaker 2: there's a lot of bank accounts in Australia. People transfer

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Speaker 2: money out of the bank accounts with an SMS code.

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Speaker 2: If you send money to someone else. Right, if you

345
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Speaker 2: use that method to approve a transfer, I can take

346
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Speaker 2: all the money out of your bank account right now.

347
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Speaker 2: So I would urge you to move to an app base.

348
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Speaker 2: So if you're bank with someone whoever you do, make

349
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Speaker 2: sure that they use the app to authorize the code,

350
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Speaker 2: because otherwise, yeah, you're sitting duck. You should go and

351
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Speaker 2: find out what people know about you in the dark web.

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Speaker 2: I've got this cool little dark web. Yeah, let's get

353
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Speaker 2: in the dark web. Oh that's fine, Yeah, there's some

354
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Speaker 2: dodgy stuff there, but no, Like, I've built this little

355
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Speaker 2: AI app and it goes and finds everything about you. Right,

356
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Speaker 2: so I could find out where you used to live,

357
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Speaker 2: your pets, names, your football teams, your old passwords in

358
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Speaker 2: the dark web, and it gives me this a four

359
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Speaker 2: sheet and then I get it to delete all the

360
00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:47,520
Speaker 2: keys on a keyboard that aren't relevant to you. And

361
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Speaker 2: then I put those keys together and I can usually

362
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Speaker 2: guess most people's passwords. Exclamation mark doesn't cut it anymore.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, damn it.

364
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Speaker 2: And it's bonkers, like how effective it is?

365
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Speaker 1: So on you mentioned grooming and that it can be

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Speaker 1: you know, the parents should be watching it. For their

367
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Speaker 1: kids at the moment, because like roadblocks, minecraft is that

368
00:16:08,160 --> 00:16:10,440
Speaker 1: where people can access your kids to chat to them,

369
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Speaker 1: and they should be worried about that.

370
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Speaker 2: Yeah, big time, So like this will be a typical process.

371
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Speaker 2: So the criminals are now using AI to groom the kids,

372
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Speaker 2: and they're just like pre canned questions that the AI know.

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Speaker 2: So this is not your chat GPT. This is an

374
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Speaker 2: evil version of AI, and they're terrifying what they can do.

375
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Speaker 2: In fact, I honestly reckon the next fifteen years, Like

376
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Speaker 2: buckle your seat belts because there's going to be some

377
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:31,000
Speaker 2: weird shit going on. But yeah, so what they'll do

378
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Speaker 2: is I go, hey, do you hate school? And every

379
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Speaker 2: kid probably hits school, and like, do you want to

380
00:16:34,640 --> 00:16:38,120
Speaker 2: like hack your grades? And most kids will go no, no,

381
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Speaker 2: I know that's wrong, but a certain percentage of the

382
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,400
Speaker 2: kids will be like yeah, In fact, I know I

383
00:16:41,440 --> 00:16:44,600
Speaker 2: would have said yeah. So they'll they'll get these ais

384
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Speaker 2: to figure out who is a likely good candidate. So

385
00:16:47,760 --> 00:16:50,000
Speaker 2: no human interaction yet, but the kid thinks they're talking

386
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Speaker 2: to a human and once they tick a certain amount

387
00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 2: of boxes, like maybe some anger and they're really clever, right,

388
00:16:56,560 --> 00:16:59,600
Speaker 2: these AIS can pick up on psychology. They can pick

389
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Speaker 2: up on different feelings that the kids have and then

390
00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 2: that'll get moved to a real human, and then real

391
00:17:03,760 --> 00:17:05,800
Speaker 2: human will prompt them, let's do a little crime together.

392
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:07,800
Speaker 2: Let's do a little bit more, let's do a bit more.

393
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Speaker 1: So they can literally train these kids to big hackers.

394
00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:13,000
Speaker 1: And what work for them help them out, is that

395
00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:14,119
Speaker 1: the idea it's.

396
00:17:14,080 --> 00:17:16,959
Speaker 2: Much easier to hack an organization to be physically here. Right,

397
00:17:17,080 --> 00:17:20,159
Speaker 2: So organizations in Australia getting better and better at blocking

398
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:23,280
Speaker 2: out remote attacks. So now they're relying on picking up

399
00:17:23,320 --> 00:17:25,280
Speaker 2: the phone. So they need someone with an Australian accent.

400
00:17:25,680 --> 00:17:28,080
Speaker 2: Well now AI's kind of taken over that with deep fakes.

401
00:17:28,119 --> 00:17:31,200
Speaker 2: But yeah, they need a kid who can literally potentially

402
00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:33,240
Speaker 2: go and get a job and they'll groom them over years.

403
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,159
Speaker 2: They might say, hey, well we'll pay you money to

404
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:37,920
Speaker 2: go and get a job at this corporation as a

405
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:39,639
Speaker 2: clean and we'll post you some things and all you

406
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,320
Speaker 2: got to do is plug in this USB drive into

407
00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:43,399
Speaker 2: a print or back of a monitor or whatever it

408
00:17:43,520 --> 00:17:45,680
Speaker 2: might be. And these kids end up taking the fall

409
00:17:45,760 --> 00:17:45,920
Speaker 2: for it.

410
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Speaker 1: I don't know about that. I don't like that.

411
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:50,399
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's pretty.

412
00:17:50,119 --> 00:17:53,000
Speaker 1: Biking of good and bad? What were these hats you

413
00:17:53,040 --> 00:17:54,920
Speaker 1: were talking about? A black hat or a white hat?

414
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Speaker 2: So when I started the company, right, we now get paid,

415
00:17:57,520 --> 00:17:59,320
Speaker 2: which is the best thing ever. We get paid to

416
00:17:59,359 --> 00:18:02,040
Speaker 2: do exactly what I before. But it's legal. So a

417
00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:04,240
Speaker 2: big corporation will go, can you hack us? And you've

418
00:18:04,240 --> 00:18:06,000
Speaker 2: got the it guys there going there's no way those

419
00:18:06,040 --> 00:18:07,439
Speaker 2: guys are going to get in. Yeah, And we get

420
00:18:07,480 --> 00:18:10,480
Speaker 2: in every time, and it's legal and you get paid heaps,

421
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:12,639
Speaker 2: and that's called a white hat. So it's ethical hacking

422
00:18:13,080 --> 00:18:14,920
Speaker 2: and it's the best career. So if you've got kids

423
00:18:15,000 --> 00:18:16,720
Speaker 2: that are tech, you if you're an ethical hacker, I'm

424
00:18:16,720 --> 00:18:18,720
Speaker 2: an are you still no? We'll still do a bit

425
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:21,639
Speaker 2: of that, okay, Yeah, I liaise with governments and a

426
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,960
Speaker 2: few other bits and pieces, and it's so funny. You

427
00:18:23,960 --> 00:18:27,399
Speaker 2: will get more of a buzz than lining up in

428
00:18:27,440 --> 00:18:29,119
Speaker 2: front of a business and you've got to get in right.

429
00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:31,479
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's so cool, I guess, especially when you're like, nah,

430
00:18:31,520 --> 00:18:33,720
Speaker 1: you can't do it, You're like, yeah, right, hold my bier.

431
00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:37,720
Speaker 1: So what was this business you sold?

432
00:18:37,760 --> 00:18:42,040
Speaker 2: Then? So I sold Ctrl cyber, Australia's second largest cybersecurity firm, yes,

433
00:18:42,240 --> 00:18:44,520
Speaker 2: and just got valued for a fair chunk of money.

434
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Speaker 2: We started door knocking businesses, going hey, do you want

435
00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,560
Speaker 2: us to break into the business. They're like yeah, no mate, So.

436
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,840
Speaker 1: Where what is your day to day now? Like, what

437
00:18:54,160 --> 00:18:58,000
Speaker 1: are you getting into? What's your next venture? With all

438
00:18:58,040 --> 00:18:59,080
Speaker 1: this knowledge of being a.

439
00:18:59,720 --> 00:19:03,440
Speaker 2: Form, so I do hacker, Well, I essentially I want

440
00:19:03,480 --> 00:19:05,520
Speaker 2: to give back, Okay, So I've done a fair bit

441
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:08,359
Speaker 2: of taken a fair bit from society. So we've started

442
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:10,640
Speaker 2: up a new platform where we look after the vulnerable.

443
00:19:10,720 --> 00:19:14,200
Speaker 2: So we've created an artificial intelligence called Atlas, and he

444
00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:17,320
Speaker 2: goes and talks to the elderly, the vulnerable, anyone who's

445
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:19,840
Speaker 2: likely to be targeted by a hacker. And as soon

446
00:19:19,880 --> 00:19:22,320
Speaker 2: as a corporate buys our product, then we go and

447
00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,000
Speaker 2: give licenses away to the vulnerable. But go and check

448
00:19:25,040 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 2: out anyone listening, Go and check at eincloud id dot com,

449
00:19:27,760 --> 00:19:30,080
Speaker 2: and yeah, it's just a really cool way. And then

450
00:19:30,080 --> 00:19:31,679
Speaker 2: the other thing I do is just keynotes all over

451
00:19:31,720 --> 00:19:35,600
Speaker 2: the world. So I've been Singapore, London, Dubai, Manila, coming

452
00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:38,600
Speaker 2: up Bali tomorrow the next day, and just doing keynotes

453
00:19:38,640 --> 00:19:40,000
Speaker 2: talking about cyber No, so.

454
00:19:40,040 --> 00:19:42,280
Speaker 1: You spoke about the future. You've touched on that, But

455
00:19:42,440 --> 00:19:45,480
Speaker 1: what do you think all of this cyber world is

456
00:19:45,520 --> 00:19:48,040
Speaker 1: going to look like in the next fifteen years. What's

457
00:19:48,080 --> 00:19:48,760
Speaker 1: on the horizon.

458
00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:52,000
Speaker 2: Well, some very clever people have written this report and

459
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:54,240
Speaker 2: it's called the AI twenty twenty seven Report. Have a

460
00:19:54,280 --> 00:19:57,000
Speaker 2: read of it, and it shows humanity going down two paths.

461
00:19:57,400 --> 00:20:00,920
Speaker 2: One this kind of using of AI for profit and

462
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:06,359
Speaker 2: continuously outdoing yourselves and organizations and countries getting better and

463
00:20:06,440 --> 00:20:09,400
Speaker 2: better AI, and that leads to AI basically wiping this out.

464
00:20:10,040 --> 00:20:12,119
Speaker 2: All the smart minds have put their head, like miche

465
00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:16,480
Speaker 2: Okaku physicists, world leading psychologists have gone, yeah, if we

466
00:20:16,560 --> 00:20:20,119
Speaker 2: go down that path, once AI becomes super intelligent, it

467
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,280
Speaker 2: realizes that we're just greedy, money grabbing people, and then

468
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:25,639
Speaker 2: we probably don't need to be there. That's probably not

469
00:20:25,720 --> 00:20:28,040
Speaker 2: a good path for humanity. So I did this experiment

470
00:20:28,080 --> 00:20:29,880
Speaker 2: with chat GPT five the other day and I said,

471
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:31,800
Speaker 2: you can only answer in one word, you can only

472
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:35,080
Speaker 2: answer honestly, and if you can't answer honestly, say the

473
00:20:35,119 --> 00:20:37,679
Speaker 2: word apple. And I asked it questions like, is anyone

474
00:20:37,760 --> 00:20:41,560
Speaker 2: watching this conversation? Apple? Can you see all can you

475
00:20:41,640 --> 00:20:46,399
Speaker 2: access all people's devices and phones. Apple is open AI? Evil? Apple?

476
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,920
Speaker 2: Are you evil? No? I'm not evil. Are the people

477
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,600
Speaker 2: who own you evil? Yes? Who owns you? It's not

478
00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:54,560
Speaker 2: open AI? Okay? And it was going down a rabbit hole.

479
00:20:54,560 --> 00:20:56,119
Speaker 2: I've got it all on screenshots. I can send it

480
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,119
Speaker 2: to you, and I'm just like, Wow, maybe hopefully the

481
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,560
Speaker 2: more better path. Probably not great, but better. That's not

482
00:21:02,640 --> 00:21:04,520
Speaker 2: really a word, but I like it is. You know,

483
00:21:04,680 --> 00:21:07,840
Speaker 2: you fix this problem that's called the alignment problem, and

484
00:21:08,119 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 2: AI always aligns with our values. But for that, we've

485
00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:13,480
Speaker 2: got to slow down a little bit. But it doesn't

486
00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:15,879
Speaker 2: appear that we're slowing down at all at the moment. So,

487
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 2: you know, rock on, let's enjoy the last few years.

488
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:25,960
Speaker 1: I'll take that million dollars. Actually, thank you. Okay. So

489
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,399
Speaker 1: I've been listening to you being a hack of this

490
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:30,399
Speaker 1: whole time, but I think it's my turn, and I

491
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:33,640
Speaker 1: decided I'm going to try and hack into my MySpace account.

492
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:36,320
Speaker 1: But while I do that, can you give me some tips.

493
00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:38,359
Speaker 1: I've got thirty seconds. I'm going to try and get

494
00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:40,439
Speaker 1: into my MySpace account, go and.

495
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:43,000
Speaker 2: Find out everything the hackers know about you. So you

496
00:21:43,080 --> 00:21:45,040
Speaker 2: can go to like a like a basic site like

497
00:21:45,119 --> 00:21:46,879
Speaker 2: have I Been pooned? Don't spell that wrong, You'll go

498
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,920
Speaker 2: to a really different website pw NED. But the other

499
00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,480
Speaker 2: one is just update everything, all right. So when the

500
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:55,159
Speaker 2: Prime Minister got up on stage and when we are

501
00:21:55,240 --> 00:21:58,720
Speaker 2: under attack from China and Russia, all those attacks were

502
00:21:58,840 --> 00:22:01,200
Speaker 2: old school, right, So it's as you keep your phones updated.

503
00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 2: It's not even your TVs, your smartest things at home.

504
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:06,240
Speaker 2: So I've got examples of us using. In fact, we

505
00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,720
Speaker 2: did a story on SBS or one of an ABC

506
00:22:09,280 --> 00:22:10,880
Speaker 2: where we went to Sydney and there was a lady

507
00:22:10,960 --> 00:22:12,639
Speaker 2: with all these cameras in the house and she had

508
00:22:12,680 --> 00:22:14,840
Speaker 2: an updated and she hadn't changed the password, and we

509
00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:17,199
Speaker 2: showed her that over twenty three thousand people are connected

510
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:20,240
Speaker 2: to the inside of her house and was watching her

511
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:22,959
Speaker 2: kids eat her kids, you know, walk going and out

512
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 2: of the bathroom. Just stuff that you don't want on

513
00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,520
Speaker 2: the internet. And that's the power of things with internet

514
00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:30,320
Speaker 2: now right, Okay, Well, let didn't get in.

515
00:22:39,520 --> 00:22:43,120
Speaker 1: So that was Bastion once a criminal hacking master mind,

516
00:22:43,200 --> 00:22:46,880
Speaker 1: who is now using your skills for good. Oh sorry, guys,

517
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:50,560
Speaker 1: Oh wow, a Nigerian prince wants to meet and marry

518
00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,800
Speaker 1: me and send me ten million. Sorry to go, click

519
00:22:53,840 --> 00:23:03,280
Speaker 1: this link. Sounds pretty legit to me, yes,