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Speaker 1: In Australia right now, ADHD is the most diagnosed mental

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Speaker 1: health or neurodevelopmental challenge in our young people under fourteen.

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Speaker 1: Recent Australian Bureau of Statistics data shows that anxiety is

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Speaker 1: the number one for over fourteens and since COVID. That

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Speaker 1: data indicates that as many as forty one percent of

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Speaker 1: our girls and twenty one percent of our boys are

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Speaker 1: experiencing clinical levels of anxiety. In short, mental health challenges

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Speaker 1: are rising, resilience is on the way down. Today on

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Speaker 1: the podcast, my guest is going to help us to

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Speaker 1: work out how we can improve both access to support

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Speaker 1: and processes at home to help our kids do better.

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Speaker 1: Hello and welcome to the Happy Families podcast, Real parenting

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Speaker 1: solutions every day on Australia's most downloaded parenting podcast. My

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Speaker 1: name is doctor Justin Coulson and I'm absolutely delighted thrilled

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Speaker 1: to be joined the University of Sydney by doctor Jamie Northam.

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Speaker 1: Doctor Jamie Northam is a clinical psychologist at sid DODR.

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Speaker 1: Northam's clinical and research work focuses on children and adolescents

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Speaker 1: and parenting. She has a particular interest in what are

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Speaker 1: known as externalizing disorders. We'll talk about those in a

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Speaker 1: sec that things like oppositional defiance disorder, conduct disorder, and

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Speaker 1: youth substance use. Currently, Jamie's working on ways to help

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Speaker 1: parents and young people notice the early signs of mental

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Speaker 1: health problems and get access to research based resources. She's

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Speaker 1: passionate about upskilling the community, better support well being and

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Speaker 1: helping parents to build new skills and Jamies and mum

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Speaker 1: to Hazel, a typically rambunctious and busy and delightful two

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Speaker 1: year old Dr Northam, thank you so much for being

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Speaker 1: with me on the Happy Families podcast. Really glad to

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Speaker 1: have you along.

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Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me to say, justin so.

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Speaker 1: I want to start with a hypothesis. I'm going to

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Speaker 1: get you to tell me, from your data and your

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Speaker 1: clinically experience, how close I am At the moment. Kids

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Speaker 1: aren't active, kids are on screens. Tech CEOs have developed

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Speaker 1: algorithms to addict our kids to those screens. Parents are

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Speaker 1: busy and stressed and distracted, sometimes in healthy ways, other

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Speaker 1: times just in their own algorithmic miasma and school pressure

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Speaker 1: is increasing at a society level. My hypothesis is that

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Speaker 1: we're just doing it wrong right now. And these are

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Speaker 1: the things that I see as being central contributors to

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Speaker 1: our mental health challenges. Where am I right? Where am

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Speaker 1: I wrong?

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Speaker 2: It is harder than ever to be a parent of

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Speaker 2: kids at the moment, and I think the screens, and

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Speaker 2: I think the environment in which young people are in

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Speaker 2: at the moment makes that doubly hard. We don't really

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Speaker 2: know how to manage screens, and we don't know the

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Speaker 2: long term effects of big time use of screens as well.

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Speaker 2: And we can kind of make some guesses about ADHD

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Speaker 2: and the effect that attention and screens is having on

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Speaker 2: that diagnosis. But it is really difficult. So what did

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Speaker 2: you get right? It's definitely more difficult than ever to

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Speaker 2: be a parent and to be a young person. What

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Speaker 2: did you get wrong? Screens aren't all bad, and screen

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Speaker 2: time and use doesn't necessarily relate to anxiety and attentional problems.

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Speaker 2: Later on, what we do know is correlated with those

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Speaker 2: things sears relationship with parents and relationship with the children

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Speaker 2: and young people, and what we do to support conversations

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Speaker 2: around how they're using screens and what they see, and

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Speaker 2: what we can do to help increase that resilience within

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Speaker 2: the home.

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Speaker 1: So Jamie to the point that I made about parents

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Speaker 1: being busy and stressed and distracted sometimes with their own

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Speaker 1: screens as well as well as the kids being on theirs.

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Speaker 1: Let's talk about this issue of building that relationship with parents.

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Speaker 1: You've been working in this area at the University of

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Speaker 1: Sydney for some time. What do you see as the

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Speaker 1: biggest challenges outside of the world of screens to positive

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Speaker 1: parent child relationships stress?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely, family stress, we've seen it in the news, the

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Speaker 2: cost of living crisis, families and parents in particular doing

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Speaker 2: everything they can to try and support their family in

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Speaker 2: the best way that they can. So there's absolutely no

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Speaker 2: shame for parents from us for using screens and relying

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Speaker 2: on these things at times. But where we would come

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Speaker 2: from with this is that there's a right way to

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Speaker 2: use them and there's a way that we can use

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Speaker 2: them that's more effective. Because at the end of the

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Speaker 2: day as well, if you need to sit down and

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Speaker 2: you need to get dinner cooked, or you need to

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Speaker 2: do your own thing, you've got work to do. That's

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Speaker 2: a reality for the life that we're facing at the

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Speaker 2: moment and the times that we're living in. But there's

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Speaker 2: ways that we can do that I think that help

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Speaker 2: to increase connection and help to really help with children's

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Speaker 2: mental health and protect them a little bit.

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Speaker 1: Okay, let's take screens out of it for just a

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Speaker 1: sick If you were to give parents maybe one or

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Speaker 1: two of the best pieces of advice that you've come

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Speaker 1: across to help them to build a relationship better with

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Speaker 1: their children, whether the child's two or twelve or twelve

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Speaker 1: or anywhere in between, what would be the best things

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Speaker 1: for parents to really connect with their kids.

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Speaker 2: The best thing for connection is absolutely scheduled time with

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Speaker 2: your child doing an activity that's really fun. So when

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Speaker 2: and the work that I do with kids who are

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Speaker 2: particularly naughty, one of the first things we do before

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Speaker 2: we even get to consequences is finding some really sort

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Speaker 2: of nice ways that we can work in some time

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Speaker 2: with Now I'm talking like ten minutes here, ten minutes

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Speaker 2: of sitting down and having a little play, going with

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Speaker 2: what your child wants to do, whether that's playing lego,

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Speaker 2: whether that's doing a quick picture. Just quick ten minutes

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Speaker 2: top up is often enough to save us from having

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Speaker 2: a family battle when it comes to dinner time or

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Speaker 2: around other family events.

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Speaker 1: I love what you've said there. I have a confession.

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Speaker 1: Sometimes I'm distracted. Sometimes I have really important things to do,

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Speaker 1: and I forget that the most important things are my kids

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Speaker 1: and the things that they're interested in. Last night, my wife,

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Speaker 1: Kylie was away. She wasn't able to be at home

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Speaker 1: last night, and so I had the kids and look

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Speaker 1: after dinner. I actually paid one of the kids to

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Speaker 1: cook dinner because I had too much going on that

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Speaker 1: while we were waiting for dinner, I finally had a

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Speaker 1: break about fifteen minutes before it was to be served up.

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Speaker 1: And what I really, what I really wanted to do,

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Speaker 1: was lay down on the bed and zone out. I

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Speaker 1: was happy to read a book, or listen to a podcast,

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Speaker 1: or maybe watch a fraction of an episode of a

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Speaker 1: serious that I'm currently binging, sorry, trying to binge in

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Speaker 1: fifteen minute increments. And my eleven year old daughter walked

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Speaker 1: into the room and wanted to show me her dragon lair.

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Speaker 1: She's collecting all of these three D printed dragons. I

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Speaker 1: got to be honest, Jamie, I thought to myself, of

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Speaker 1: all the things that I could engage in right now,

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Speaker 1: checking out eleven year old's cardboard box dragon lair beside

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Speaker 1: her bed in her bedroom is near the bottom of

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Speaker 1: the list, and because I'm a parenting expert, I pushed

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Speaker 1: all that down, got out of bed, or got off

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Speaker 1: the bed, and walked into the room with her, and

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Speaker 1: I sat down on the carpet, and do you know what,

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Speaker 1: for that next ten minutes, as she described to me

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Speaker 1: how she's she's got the clothes hanging for the dragons.

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Speaker 1: I didn't know the dragons walk clothes, incidentally, And she's

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Speaker 1: got all of these different things that she's set up,

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Speaker 1: the creativity, the time, the effort, the hours she's put in.

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Speaker 1: It was actually, it was just delightful to see the

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Speaker 1: joy that she was finding. When you say to invest

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Speaker 1: that time, even if it's ten minutes, it makes it

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Speaker 1: just makes a world of difference for them because they

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Speaker 1: want us to be in their world.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely it does. I love that example so much because

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Speaker 2: you were able to find a place within yourself even

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Speaker 2: though you're busy and stressed and you've had a huge day,

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Speaker 2: to then reconnect with your daughter. But I also just

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Speaker 2: want to highlight the fact that not everybody is able

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Speaker 2: to do that, and that's okay, that's really okay. If

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Speaker 2: you're not able to do that. There are times when

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Speaker 2: I'm exhausted as well, and I know that even if

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Speaker 2: I try to do it, I'm going to be snappy

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Speaker 2: and I'm not going to be engaged, and that's not

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Speaker 2: going to be a good use of anyone's time. So

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Speaker 2: I guess if you're looking for practical, implementable things, if

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Speaker 2: my daughter comes up to do that and I'm in

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Speaker 2: a space but I'm not able to do that, I

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Speaker 2: will say, Wow, thank you so much for coming to

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Speaker 2: show me this. I'm so excited to see this, but

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Speaker 2: mummy needs ten minutes and then I'm going to come

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Speaker 2: and I want you to show me everything about this

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Speaker 2: dragon's lair, because then you're also modeling that it's okay

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Speaker 2: to have time to yourself and that there are times

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Speaker 2: when you need a moment, And so you're modeling to

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Speaker 2: kids how to manage emotions, how to set expectations, but

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Speaker 2: that that connection and that relationship is still very important

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Speaker 2: to you. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to share that story so I could

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Speaker 1: virtue signal a little bit and show how awesome I.

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Speaker 2: Amazon's dad's well nailing it. That's right.

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Speaker 1: Let's get back to the serious conversation about mental health.

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Speaker 1: This concept of connecting belonging, feeling like you're mad at

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Speaker 1: your parents, getting time and attention in spite of the business,

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Speaker 1: the stress, the distraction, the screens, the school pressures, and

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Speaker 1: so on. What are the long term mental health implications

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Speaker 1: when kids can't get that connection.

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Speaker 2: It's really tricky to monitor exactly what causes mental health

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Speaker 2: problems and what makes them line. But we do know

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Speaker 2: that at least half of all child mental health problems

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Speaker 2: emerge before twelve, and that they become life course persistent,

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Speaker 2: which means that they.

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Speaker 1: When I hear that, yeah, that's right, like they keep

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Speaker 1: for a long time, I'm cutting you off because because

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Speaker 1: that mental health challenges sort of present or show up

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Speaker 1: before the age of twelve and they become life long

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Speaker 1: That's one of those statements that we hear a lot.

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Speaker 1: Can you really unpack that and describe precisely what we're

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Speaker 1: supposed to take from that? What does it mean specifically?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I raised this also in just in terms of connection,

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Speaker 2: because we need to be able to notice when things

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Speaker 2: have gone off with our kids. So what does it

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Speaker 2: mean specifically? It means that when we think about mental

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Speaker 2: health problems, we think about difficulties in a specific area

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Speaker 2: for kids, the things that I'm most interested in and

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Speaker 2: worried about with kids' mental health. Are they making friends,

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Speaker 2: Are they feeling confident and happy to engage in school?

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Speaker 2: Are they following most the direction so that there's not

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Speaker 2: lots of stress at home with parents as well. And

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Speaker 2: if they're able to do that, that means that we

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Speaker 2: know they can engage in school well, and they can learn,

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Speaker 2: they can make new friends, and they can learn all

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Speaker 2: the social things they need to do at different levels.

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Speaker 2: But if there are fears and worries that are getting

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Speaker 2: in the way of making friends, of being at school,

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Speaker 2: or learning with their peers, or listening to their parents

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Speaker 2: and following those instructions, then we know that they're not

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Speaker 2: going to meet a lot of the needs that they

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Speaker 2: need to meet and the milestones. If they don't meet

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Speaker 2: those milestones, then it's a constant catching up process that

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Speaker 2: starts and that happens. So what we and so that

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Speaker 2: what that looks like is ow you have a child

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Speaker 2: who might be in kindergarten and really struggles following directions

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Speaker 2: with their teacher. They don't know how to share with

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Speaker 2: their peers very well, so they don't have very many

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Speaker 2: friends and their self confidence goes down and that has

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Speaker 2: these big knock on effects, and so then as clinicians

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Speaker 2: and as a psychologist, it's about getting in as early

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Speaker 2: as we can so that those long term knock on

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Speaker 2: effects don't keep building up and that kids then don't

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Speaker 2: become disadvantaged in different ways.

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Speaker 1: Early intervention would also help to avoid the need for

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Speaker 1: a diagnosis. Would that be a fair statement.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely so. When we're thinking about early intervention, I like

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Speaker 2: to think about what is it that's currently getting in

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Speaker 2: the way for kids. So is it that there's a

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Speaker 2: big emotional meltdown that it's happening all the time that's

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Speaker 2: stopping them from learning in school, In which case we

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Speaker 2: might do some early intervention in emotion regulation skills, which

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Speaker 2: can be done with parents and with teachers. If there's

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Speaker 2: something to do with being friendly and social with others,

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Speaker 2: we might help them to learn sharing skills and really

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Speaker 2: model that, and we can do these things first before

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Speaker 2: things continue to escalate and become mental health disorders.

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Speaker 1: Jamie, there's so much advice out there at the moment.

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Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok are just full of information that frankly,

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Speaker 1: I think is freaking everyone out. Parents are more on edge,

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Speaker 1: more nervous, more worried, more anxious about their children and

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Speaker 1: their mental health than perhaps at any other time. To

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Speaker 1: what extent is that impacting the current state of mental

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Speaker 1: health or mental illness in children? And I guess, by extension,

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Speaker 1: how much do you see parental anxiety about children having

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Speaker 1: emotions and being anxious contributing to the fact that the

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Speaker 1: children are having emotions and being anxious.

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Speaker 2: Oh, such an interesting question and interesting phenomenon. And as

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Speaker 2: a parent of a two year old, I find myself,

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Speaker 2: even though I'm an expert, questioning myself every day about

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Speaker 2: the impact of things or if I'm doing things right.

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Speaker 2: So it's a bit of a big question to answer.

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Speaker 2: So I'll just start with the first thing that popped

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Speaker 2: into my mind, which was around the advice and around

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Speaker 2: the amount of content that currently exists from a parenting perspective.

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Speaker 2: I know, even when my daughter was a baby, I

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Speaker 2: felt like I was learning parenting from Instagram, and a

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Speaker 2: lot of the stuff that I would get fed up

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Speaker 2: would be conflicting information. I would hear something from one

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Speaker 2: specialist something from a different specialist, And I feel like

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Speaker 2: that's a really common experience before social media really took

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Speaker 2: off just from different nurses and things when you're learning

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Speaker 2: for breastfeed and all that kind of thing. Beau's not

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Speaker 2: one way works perfectly for everybody. But in the current

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Speaker 2: day and age, we get this messaging constantly about how

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Speaker 2: to best parent your child, how to best protect them

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Speaker 2: from anxiety, how to best protect from social media influences,

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Speaker 2: and different different things that are coming up on those platforms,

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Speaker 2: and it's really really difficult to actually know what to

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Speaker 2: do and to question that. So if I could offer

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Speaker 2: any practical advice about that, it's really about asking yourself

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Speaker 2: what is happening for my child at the moment, and

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Speaker 2: of the signs that things might not be going well,

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Speaker 2: and taking it back to really basic principles. So in

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Speaker 2: psychology we always speak about the three d's when we're

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Speaker 2: thinking about needing to intervene with kids, and those are distress, dysfunction,

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Speaker 2: and devians. So distress some behavior is worrying you or

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Speaker 2: worrying your child, that's a perfect time to get help

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Speaker 2: because that's one thing that's really important. Dysfunction, that's the

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Speaker 2: things that I like to think about, is impacting learning

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Speaker 2: or impacting a really happy life. So if you can't

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Speaker 2: make friends. If you can't form those relationships, that's having

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Speaker 2: a bit of dysfunction, So that's probably worth looking at.

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Speaker 2: And then debans is the last one, which sounds a

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Speaker 2: little bit scary when you say, like like that, But

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Speaker 2: what devians refers to is really, is my child within

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Speaker 2: the realms of what's considered normal at this age and

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Speaker 2: are they sort of meeting those milestones that would be

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Speaker 2: expected of them, And if they're not, again, that's probably

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Speaker 2: another tick that you know that it's time to seek

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Speaker 2: out a little bit of extra support.

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Speaker 1: Devins does sound a little alarming. I tend to use

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Speaker 1: the word deviation instead. Deviation just softens it that little

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Speaker 1: bit for a parent who's already so anxious. But I

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Speaker 1: think that's going to be so valuable and so useful

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Speaker 1: for parents who are listening. Let's extend that then and

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Speaker 1: highlight how do you know that you're accessing support that's

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Speaker 1: evidence based, Because I mean, the reality is that there

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Speaker 1: are really well credentialed, really well intentioned, really smart experts.

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Speaker 1: I'm not talking about and I don't say this in

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Speaker 1: a disparaging way. It's just the easiest descriptor instamums or

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Speaker 1: TikTok influencers, well intentioned and often sharing really great information.

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Speaker 1: As somebody with a doctorate in psychology myself, sometimes I

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Speaker 1: look at these social media people and go, Dan, that's good.

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Speaker 1: I'm stealing that, Like the evidence is right there for it.

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Speaker 1: That's brilliant. I think it's amazing. And other times they

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Speaker 1: say such rubbish. But I want to I want to

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Speaker 1: ignore that for a minute. I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: There's me, and I'm saying, well, let me pick one

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Speaker 1: that you know, Professor Mark Dads. You work with Mark,

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Speaker 1: and you obviously know me and the work that I do.

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Speaker 1: And he and I disagree profoundly on one particular thing,

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Speaker 1: which is the use of time out. I mean, he's

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Speaker 1: all for it because he's from the Triple P Matthew

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Speaker 1: Sanders University of Queensland School, and I'm from a self

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Speaker 1: determination theory perspective, which says, we want to minimize controlling techniques,

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Speaker 1: and there are much better ways that we can do

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Speaker 1: this without crippling relationships or without making kids experience these

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Speaker 1: punitive outcomes. We can actually do it better. So Mark

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Speaker 1: is highly credible. He's a really smart guy. He's done,

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Speaker 1: he's made an enormous contribution with the world in his

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Speaker 1: parenting research, as has someone like Matt Sanders. And yet

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Speaker 1: somebody like me who's relying on incredible experts who have

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Speaker 1: written books like voluminousts the most published scientific research is

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Speaker 1: on the planet. Their research is deep and meaningful and

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Speaker 1: useful as well. So when a parent comes across someone

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Speaker 1: like me saying don't use time out and then the

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Speaker 1: next thing in their algorithm serves up Mark or Matt

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Speaker 1: or somebody like that saying no, no, no, timeout is really

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Speaker 1: really valuable and you need it, what are they supposed

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Speaker 1: to do? Because both of us are coming from an

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Speaker 1: evidence based situation. How do you guide parents in that situation?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is one that comes up all the time,

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Speaker 2: As I imagine you would know when you've got a

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Speaker 2: child who's behaving poorly and you want to help them

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Speaker 2: to learn the new skill to behave, Well, how do

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Speaker 2: we do that best? And how do we figure out

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Speaker 2: the evidence behind what's going to work? So you did

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Speaker 2: a beautiful job that I'm explaining that there is a

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Speaker 2: huge amount of evidence behind time out and behind time

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Speaker 2: out not being harmful and being really helpful at times.

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Speaker 2: But what I like to think of it too, as

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Speaker 2: I love metaphors when I'm working with families in particular,

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Speaker 2: is that you can have a child who have you

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Speaker 2: had the dandelion orchard metaphor before I have?

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Speaker 1: But please share it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, So the or good metaphor is that you've got

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Speaker 2: different types of kids, and you can think of kids

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Speaker 2: as different types of flowers. The dandelion flower or a

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Speaker 2: child is the sort of child who'll grow anywhere. They're

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Speaker 2: really resilient, they're robust, they need really minimal conditions to

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Speaker 2: grow into a healthy, functioning human being who's pretty happy.

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Speaker 2: Then we get these children sometimes who refer to as orchids,

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Speaker 2: and they're very sensitive to environment, and they need very

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Speaker 2: particular parenting input and very particular environments to grow. And

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Speaker 2: when they grow, my goodness, they are spectacular. And I

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Speaker 2: like to think about the parenting choices we make about

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Speaker 2: discipline and learning skills and all those things as really

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Speaker 2: individual to families and really individual to kids. What will

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Speaker 2: work well for one kid might not necessarily work well

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Speaker 2: for the other kid, even if both things are evidence based.

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Speaker 2: So what we need to do when considering which treatment

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Speaker 2: to go with or which fills to implement if you're

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Speaker 2: thinking about advice that you receive on Instagram or TikTok,

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Speaker 2: it's one, are there studies behind this that show that

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Speaker 2: it works and that it doesn't do harm. Two, what

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Speaker 2: I think is really important are there clear guidelines and

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Speaker 2: how to actually do it? Because a lot of the

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Speaker 2: time instrums will tell a nice thing and you go,

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Speaker 2: that sounds cool, but I don't actually know how to

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Speaker 2: do that. Then, so you want to see the actual

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Speaker 2: steps involved so you don't screw it up to put

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Speaker 2: it really bluntly. And then lastly you're going to go

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Speaker 2: is this right for me? And is this the right

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Speaker 2: fit for my child? So, as you've mentioned, I work

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Speaker 2: with Mark Dads who is very big on time out,

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Speaker 2: and it does work very well for a lot of kids,

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Speaker 2: but it doesn't work very well for all kids. And

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Speaker 2: so even when I'm working in the clinic, it's very

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Speaker 2: much a conversation about what are your needs, what can

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Speaker 2: we do to meet those needs, and what's going to

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Speaker 2: work for your family? And if you're assessing evidence based care,

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Speaker 2: our evidence based skills, it's that lens of has there

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Speaker 2: been worked onne to show this is true? How do

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Speaker 2: I do it? And does this fit my philosophy and

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Speaker 2: does it fit how my child is Jamie?

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Speaker 1: Parenting is complex, and it also highlights, I think the

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Speaker 1: challenge that we have with psychology. Generally, we know what

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Speaker 1: works well on average, but very few people are actually average.

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Speaker 1: If anybody right, we're all, we're all that a little

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Speaker 1: bit different. Let's bring it back to a mental health

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Speaker 1: discussion again, because that's really the central area that we

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Speaker 1: need to focus on for our conversation. So far, you've

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Speaker 1: highlighted that if we see a child who is distressed, dysfunctional,

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Speaker 1: or deviating from what we see happening on average for

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Speaker 1: their age group, for their developmental stage, we should start

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Speaker 1: to say, Okay, there is cause for some concern here.

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Speaker 1: I have a couple of tricky questions to follow that up.

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Speaker 1: First off, how do they get help? And secondly, what

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Speaker 1: do they do when help is really hard to find

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Speaker 1: because of the current challenges in our medical and psychological system.

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Speaker 1: If they're dealing with really big challenges that need help

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Speaker 1: sooner than the appointments will allow.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's one of those impossible problems that we're trying

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Speaker 2: really hard to fix. At the moment. You raise several issues.

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Speaker 2: So the first one through the around barriers to getting

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Speaker 2: access to care. So in order to get children the

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Speaker 2: care that they need, you need parents to recognize that

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Speaker 2: there are issues that are going on that need more support,

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Speaker 2: and then you need for them to be able to

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Speaker 2: know where to go to actually access that support. And

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Speaker 2: then you need to have the money usually to see

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Speaker 2: a specialist or to see a psychologist, and you need

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Speaker 2: to have that reduced waging time to get in. So

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Speaker 2: it's a really tricky context at the moment, especially with

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Speaker 2: parental anxiety really high at the moment about looking after

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Speaker 2: their kids the best they can. There's a lot of

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Speaker 2: people trying to access services and there are really long

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Speaker 2: wait lists at the moment. So what we're really trying

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Speaker 2: to do at the moment is find ways that we

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Speaker 2: can help families to recognize when there are signs that

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Speaker 2: things aren't going quite right, and then to give them

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Speaker 2: some guidance on typical milestones like when the kids are

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Speaker 2: meeting them are not and also how their children are

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Speaker 2: going on a range of different areas in terms of wellbeing.

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Speaker 2: And then we're providing links to services that are available

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Speaker 2: online and that are free, so these things might be

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Speaker 2: self directed programs that they can do themselves, which can

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Speaker 2: be a bit of a holdover until getting in to

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Speaker 2: see somebody face to face. And our hope is that

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Speaker 2: a lot of the time that doing these free, instantly

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Speaker 2: accessible programs is actually going to decrease the amount of

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Speaker 2: need that is put on the mental health service and system,

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Speaker 2: so that those kids who do need to get that

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Speaker 2: support really fast can get it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So now I'm on the edge of my seat because

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking myself, I don't want to wait two years

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Speaker 1: to get a diagnosis sort of find out what's really

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Speaker 1: going on, but some people or literally waiting one to

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Speaker 1: even two and a half years was one that I

436
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,199
Speaker 1: heard the other day from somebody who just had to

437
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 1: get some help. You're suggesting that you're working on some

438
00:23:07,880 --> 00:23:12,480
Speaker 1: things to potentially provide the early intervention which may, if

439
00:23:12,520 --> 00:23:16,360
Speaker 1: not alleviate the problem entirely, at least reduce the challenges

440
00:23:16,359 --> 00:23:18,399
Speaker 1: that parents are facing. Can you tell me a bit

441
00:23:18,440 --> 00:23:22,160
Speaker 1: about that. What are you doing specifically to alleviate the concern,

442
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:24,080
Speaker 1: the anxiety, the stress that parents are facing when it

443
00:23:24,080 --> 00:23:26,320
Speaker 1: comes to the they're worries about their kids and their

444
00:23:26,359 --> 00:23:27,400
Speaker 1: mental health challenges.

445
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, so, at the moment, we've developed a talk called

446
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:33,720
Speaker 2: the Growing Minds check In, and the Growing Minds check

447
00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:37,080
Speaker 2: In is a website that you can log onto. It's

448
00:23:37,119 --> 00:23:40,240
Speaker 2: for parents of children zero to seventeen years of age,

449
00:23:40,280 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 2: so a very broad range of age groups for parents,

450
00:23:44,160 --> 00:23:46,840
Speaker 2: and it takes on average six minutes to do. And

451
00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,199
Speaker 2: this check in what it does is we combine subjective concerns,

452
00:23:51,400 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 2: so just general issues that parents have, and we have

453
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:57,200
Speaker 2: what we call an objective measure. And an objective measure

454
00:23:57,400 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 2: is a population based score that can tell you how

455
00:24:02,520 --> 00:24:05,760
Speaker 2: your child is functioning overall in terms of mental health

456
00:24:05,800 --> 00:24:10,160
Speaker 2: and wellbeing and also in terms of anxiety, conduct issues,

457
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:13,560
Speaker 2: and attention. And that compares your child's score to other

458
00:24:13,640 --> 00:24:16,159
Speaker 2: kids their age, so you can get a bit of

459
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:19,280
Speaker 2: an idea whether what areas they might be struggling in

460
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:25,040
Speaker 2: and then we give recommended resources based on those outcomes

461
00:24:25,080 --> 00:24:27,560
Speaker 2: for what's available online at the moment. So the goal

462
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:30,639
Speaker 2: is to really upskill parents that you know what's happening

463
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:32,440
Speaker 2: with their child a little bit more, but they also

464
00:24:32,520 --> 00:24:35,080
Speaker 2: know where they can go to online to get that

465
00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:36,400
Speaker 2: really early intervention.

466
00:24:37,359 --> 00:24:39,680
Speaker 1: I love it. I'm going to summarize that because there

467
00:24:39,720 --> 00:24:41,159
Speaker 1: were several things that you said that I think are

468
00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:44,320
Speaker 1: really important in case somebody was listening while they're dealing

469
00:24:44,320 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: with a child or I don't know, doing other stuff.

470
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:52,520
Speaker 1: Six minutes, you do this questionnaire based on what your

471
00:24:52,560 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: experience is, and then your results are compared with population

472
00:24:56,119 --> 00:24:57,960
Speaker 1: level data so that you can see whether your child

473
00:24:58,080 --> 00:25:01,119
Speaker 1: is or is not deviating, or the levels of distress

474
00:25:01,200 --> 00:25:04,760
Speaker 1: or whatever. A different it's for anyone with kids between

475
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:08,879
Speaker 1: zero and seventeen. So we're talking about if you're a

476
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 1: parent and you're worried about your child, there's information here

477
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,160
Speaker 1: that's going to be useful. And once the information has

478
00:25:16,240 --> 00:25:22,280
Speaker 1: been collected through the questionnaire, your system provides directions for

479
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,480
Speaker 1: where to go for the appropriate level of help and

480
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:27,399
Speaker 1: how to get that.

481
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,280
Speaker 2: That's exactly right. And the other thing that we do,

482
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:31,399
Speaker 2: which I think is really fantastic, is we give the

483
00:25:31,440 --> 00:25:35,000
Speaker 2: feedback summary reform. And this feedback summary reform can be

484
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:37,359
Speaker 2: used to take to your GP, it can be used

485
00:25:37,400 --> 00:25:40,400
Speaker 2: to take to other psychologists or pediatricians, and it gives

486
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:43,160
Speaker 2: a snapshot of how things were at that moment. And

487
00:25:43,200 --> 00:25:45,399
Speaker 2: in the study that we're currently running, where it's a

488
00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:47,480
Speaker 2: study because what we're trying to do is get as

489
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:53,159
Speaker 2: input as we possibly can before we just put the

490
00:25:53,160 --> 00:25:55,680
Speaker 2: tool out into the world and we're partnered with Raising

491
00:25:55,720 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 2: Children's Network to put this tool out nationally into the

492
00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,320
Speaker 2: world once it's done. So we're really really seeking parents

493
00:26:03,320 --> 00:26:05,280
Speaker 2: to help us to test this at the moment and

494
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 2: to give us feedback on what works and how we

495
00:26:07,320 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 2: can make it better, because this tool is really for parents,

496
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 2: and it's to encourage people to think about wellbeing and

497
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 2: what we can do every day to look after our kids.

498
00:26:16,720 --> 00:26:18,560
Speaker 1: I'm hearing you say it, and part of me is thinking,

499
00:26:18,920 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: why is it only just happening in twenty twenty five,

500
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: Like this seems like it's so obvious that somebody should

501
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:25,800
Speaker 1: have done this already. All right, So if parents want

502
00:26:25,840 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: to check up on their kids and I want to

503
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: be able to access this six minute questionnaire and obviously

504
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: it sounds like this is for science, so it will

505
00:26:32,600 --> 00:26:35,200
Speaker 1: support the work that you're doing as well. Where do

506
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,480
Speaker 1: they go and how do they do this? How do

507
00:26:37,520 --> 00:26:38,760
Speaker 1: they find out how their kids are going?

508
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:41,119
Speaker 2: Yeah, so you can sign up to be part of

509
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,720
Speaker 2: the study, which is the Growing Minds check In Study

510
00:26:43,880 --> 00:26:48,720
Speaker 2: and the website all one word Growing Minds check In

511
00:26:50,240 --> 00:26:55,960
Speaker 2: AU and I'll spell it out to it's g rwng

512
00:26:57,480 --> 00:27:05,440
Speaker 2: MNDS ch e ck I N dot AU.

513
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:09,119
Speaker 1: So growing minds check in dot au. We'll link to

514
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:13,400
Speaker 1: that in the show notes six minute questionnaire, and then

515
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,240
Speaker 1: a comparison of your child against what's going on for

516
00:27:16,320 --> 00:27:18,440
Speaker 1: the rest of the population and.

517
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,600
Speaker 2: Links to available resources that are online and freely available.

518
00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:24,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, probably should have mentioned that as well.

519
00:27:24,640 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 2: That was my fault.

520
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: That's really important for anyone who wants help, Jamie. I

521
00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:31,440
Speaker 1: think this has been a really important conversation. I reckon

522
00:27:31,480 --> 00:27:33,360
Speaker 1: so many parents will have taken so much from it.

523
00:27:34,040 --> 00:27:37,199
Speaker 1: Is there anything that you would like to share that

524
00:27:37,240 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: we haven't discussed just in the last sort of twenty

525
00:27:41,520 --> 00:27:42,800
Speaker 1: five thirty minutes or so.

526
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:44,960
Speaker 2: I just really want to reiterate how difficult it is

527
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 2: to parent kids at the moment, and how many stresses

528
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:51,679
Speaker 2: there are out there and competing ideas and demands, and

529
00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,680
Speaker 2: how hard it is to know what the right thing

530
00:27:53,720 --> 00:27:56,600
Speaker 2: to do is. But that if you can really go

531
00:27:56,680 --> 00:28:00,280
Speaker 2: back down to basics and think about those three d is,

532
00:28:00,480 --> 00:28:02,959
Speaker 2: think about how your child is, what you're doing to

533
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,960
Speaker 2: support that relationship with that special time every now and

534
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,600
Speaker 2: then that nine times out of ten, you'll be doing

535
00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:12,760
Speaker 2: a fantastic job and that your gut will tell you

536
00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,240
Speaker 2: when it's time to do the next thing. But there's

537
00:28:15,280 --> 00:28:17,280
Speaker 2: always extra things that we can be doing to support

538
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 2: our kids, just like there's always extra things we can

539
00:28:19,200 --> 00:28:21,399
Speaker 2: be doing to be better in all different areas of

540
00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:23,720
Speaker 2: our life, and so sometimes do it can be good

541
00:28:23,720 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 2: to use something like the check in just to check

542
00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: if there is anything extra that you can be doing,

543
00:28:28,680 --> 00:28:30,639
Speaker 2: Or if you have no worries about your kids and

544
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 2: you just want a bit of a baseline touchstone, then

545
00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,120
Speaker 2: that's great too. That's the great use of the check.

546
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:38,840
Speaker 1: In directly making it too hard on ourselves. Do you

547
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:40,160
Speaker 1: think we're thinking about it too much?

548
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:43,720
Speaker 2: Oh? It's hard, isn't it? Because we're in an age

549
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 2: where we know more than ever before what works.

550
00:28:47,360 --> 00:28:50,680
Speaker 1: And I'm not convinced that's helping us, right, I know that's.

551
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,560
Speaker 2: The thing, isn't it? And so like, how do you

552
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:56,080
Speaker 2: actually use that? It's impossible to know sometimes, but I

553
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,160
Speaker 2: do think if we can try to simplify what we

554
00:28:58,320 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 2: get into some sort of filter and go, how am

555
00:29:01,360 --> 00:29:04,280
Speaker 2: I showing my child I love them? How am I

556
00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:08,640
Speaker 2: enjoying being in this relationship? And that's your basis, because

557
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:10,960
Speaker 2: then when things slightly go off, you can go ooof,

558
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:14,560
Speaker 2: something's not quite sitting right there, and then that's when

559
00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 2: you can go into the next step of going what

560
00:29:16,320 --> 00:29:18,560
Speaker 2: do we know about this issue? How can I approach

561
00:29:18,640 --> 00:29:20,280
Speaker 2: this in a way that I know is going to work.

562
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:23,280
Speaker 2: Let's be shown to be effective and will be effective

563
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:24,360
Speaker 2: for my particular kid.

564
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,040
Speaker 1: Really enjoyed the conversation, so great for your time. Thanks Jamie,

565
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: Thanks so much for having me. Doctor Jamie Northam is

566
00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:35,880
Speaker 1: a clinical psychologist and lecturer at the University of Sydney.

567
00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,760
Speaker 1: We will link to doctor Northam's profile in the show notes,

568
00:29:38,800 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 1: as well as everything that you need to know about

569
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,880
Speaker 1: the check in so that you can find out how

570
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:47,560
Speaker 1: your kiddo is going. The Happy Families podcast is produced

571
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:51,240
Speaker 1: by Justin Rouland from Bridge Media. More information and resources

572
00:29:51,240 --> 00:29:54,360
Speaker 1: to make your family happier can be found at happy

573
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:55,840
Speaker 1: families dot com dot a u