Speaker 1: Hey Lisens, Welcome back to the Amazon Cox Show.
Speaker 2: Now this week we're doing a bit of a look
Speaker 2: back at the best interviews, and this one is an
Speaker 2: absolute Jim Yes, Razor Ray the umpire who just recently retired.
Speaker 2: He talks about footy and everything that goes with it.
Speaker 2: You will respect umpire, Yes, I said it. You will
Speaker 2: respect umpires after this. So I hope you absolutely enjoy
Speaker 2: this one.
Speaker 1: It is a great one. I'm super proud of and
Speaker 1: he is an incredible man. So listen in. It's gonna
Speaker 1: be a great one.
Speaker 3: Starting now, I want to actually start off with a
Speaker 3: quote of yours. Now, I did a bit of research
Speaker 3: on you right as to do it. I'm my guests, and.
Speaker 1: I've read this quote and I'm really vibe with this.
Speaker 3: This is a really good one. And the quote is
Speaker 3: elite performance is a sum of all the micro moments.
Speaker 3: It's a craft and it's what underpins the most special moments. Now,
Speaker 3: is that a quote from you?
Speaker 1: It is? Yeah, that is that is good good research.
Speaker 3: I'll do I'll do my best. I'll do my best
Speaker 3: work for people. Come on, and then it kind of
Speaker 3: goes downhill once again a mine, No, but it kind
Speaker 3: of I guess gives you a bit of an idea
Speaker 3: the kind of personality you are. There's so many little
Speaker 3: things that probably happened in your life to lead you
Speaker 3: to where you are today. And yeah, we'll just jump
Speaker 3: into it. Because you're born an act. You're not a
Speaker 3: Melbourne man, not of Melbourne man.
Speaker 1: And thank you for that. Man, that's really kind of you.
Speaker 1: I think one of the first lessons I learned here
Speaker 1: in Melbourne. I was in the VFL and mate, you
Speaker 1: won't this way vibe, but you will not have seen
Speaker 1: this stuff. I'm as old as dirt, right, And so
Speaker 1: what would happen is they would play curtain raisers yep,
Speaker 1: before the big dogs rolled out, right, So Richmond may
Speaker 1: be playing Essendon at the MCG and so there'll be
Speaker 1: a curtain raiser at like nine to thirty am core right,
Speaker 1: like proper early. Yeah. And you know, so this whole
Speaker 1: notion of kicking the jew off is legit, right, So
Speaker 1: you'd be drying the ground for when the big show started.
Speaker 1: And I remember one day I was walking across the
Speaker 1: MCG and one of our coaches was there and he
Speaker 1: said to me, he goes, you know, mate, he goes
Speaker 1: I think you're a horrible Hayden Kennedy. Now, Hayden Kennedy
Speaker 1: was the games record holder, he was our coach. He's
Speaker 1: a legend. I have always just held Hayden on a pedestal.
Speaker 1: He's a legend, right in what we do. He goes,
Speaker 1: you'll be a worse Darren Goldspink. So Darren goldspin compied
Speaker 1: are Besquilian Grand Finals and whatever. Right, he goes, you're
Speaker 1: a dog shit Matthew James, who was the it guys, right,
Speaker 1: and he goes but you know, he goes on that
Speaker 1: you maker bloody good Ray Chamberlain. And it was really
Speaker 1: funny because this guy only observed me in like three
Speaker 1: or four games ever so early doors like I'm talking
Speaker 1: two thousand you two. But I remember this conversation so vividly,
Speaker 1: like it resonated with me and the kind of thing
Speaker 1: what I kind of came to an understanding because I
Speaker 1: was only packed it in and went home. I trial,
Speaker 1: you're trying to make the AFL list, missed out again,
Speaker 1: missed out on trialing again. I was like, you know what,
Speaker 1: shove it. I'm out. And my now wife said to me,
Speaker 1: you regret it, you regret Stop being a silk have
Speaker 1: another dig. You will regret this if you go now.
Speaker 1: And it was midway through the following season that I
Speaker 1: got a phone call and got promoted onto the AFL.
Speaker 1: And the thing that resonated with me back then was,
Speaker 1: you know, if you're authentically who you are, you've got
Speaker 1: no evil to anyone, You're not trying to treat anyone poorly,
Speaker 1: You're not doing anything wrong per se, and you're just
Speaker 1: being authentically yourself and you fall short. I can. I
Speaker 1: can live with that, That will be okay with me.
Speaker 1: But if you're trying to put yourself forward to something
Speaker 1: that you just it's just not who you are and
Speaker 1: you fail, I don't think. I don't think that would old.
Speaker 1: It'd be very restless, would I would not forgive myself
Speaker 1: for that. So I just I don't know when it
Speaker 1: stopped being cool to treat people well right and just
Speaker 1: for you right, like what is del buckleyy? Everyone else
Speaker 1: has taken right, So like, just just be yourself and
Speaker 1: I don't know any other way, mate. Yeah, And it's
Speaker 1: it is a creat too.
Speaker 3: I mean, I don't think there's anyone that's ever done
Speaker 3: it even remotely close to what you do like you.
Speaker 3: You're very unique and you've got such a good relationship
Speaker 3: I feel like with the industry itself and players and
Speaker 3: coaches and everyone else, and you're so well respected within
Speaker 3: the AFL, and it's it is a credit to you,
Speaker 3: and it's yeah, I look at it and at some
Speaker 3: point I guess we're somewhat similar stories. That's probably really
Speaker 3: going after it. That's a really stular question, attle bit,
Speaker 3: But yeah, I don't. I don't think you you grew
Speaker 3: up probably wanting to be an umpire because you originally
Speaker 3: were cricket players. What I've looked up, it's just did
Speaker 3: a little bit of a little.
Speaker 1: Bit of creating. You're a part of a national championship,
Speaker 1: is what I actually read. I love my cricket and
Speaker 1: I and it was something that I considered myself to
Speaker 1: be good at. I'm okay, I'm a wicket keeper and
Speaker 1: I could bat a little bit, and I loved the
Speaker 1: game and the sides I played in. We won premierships
Speaker 1: and all that sort of stuff when we weren't meant to.
Speaker 1: So I played, uh well from a kid, but I
Speaker 1: played senior cricket for Tagronong in the in the act
Speaker 1: that's in camera, mate, don't ask me how to say that.
Speaker 1: And we played against guys like so Brad Hadden who
Speaker 1: was a wicket keeper for Australia and is now a
Speaker 1: coach at the level. There were guys like there's there's
Speaker 1: a big West Indian guy I used to play. There's
Speaker 1: lots of names that won't resonate with you at all. Right,
Speaker 1: we're nearly on. It was. She really just tested my knowledge.
Speaker 1: But it was really competitive, and we like all these
Speaker 1: young guys because we were out I think of south
Speaker 1: of the city and then go further south that, like
Speaker 1: as far south as that's where I grew up right
Speaker 1: and that, and so we were like in a nappy valley.
Speaker 1: So we're all these young guys and I remember the
Speaker 1: paper said, oh, you know they had us finishing last
Speaker 1: young lots of potential too soon.
Speaker 4: Sounds familiar, right, you heard this song And we won
Speaker 4: the comp, right, we won the comp and so you
Speaker 4: know that was off the back of lots of people contributing.
Speaker 1: But I loved cricket and I played national championships and
Speaker 1: got offers to go and play in Sydney and overseas
Speaker 1: and stuff like that for little bits and Bobs. But
Speaker 1: I wasn't ever going to be like elite. I wasn't
Speaker 1: that like you look at guys like. I remember coming
Speaker 1: down and I played at Melbourne. I got invited down
Speaker 1: to play from a friend and I remember seeing Brad
Speaker 1: Hodge hit the cricket ball and it just sounds different,
Speaker 1: like they just like the guys who are the best, Yeah,
Speaker 1: like they just do it different. Hads was the same.
Speaker 1: He'd hit a ball I need a seven nine, he
Speaker 1: like he hit a cricket ball, right, So the guy
Speaker 1: I was never that level ever. But I was a
Speaker 1: good clubby right, and I loved it. But umpiring I
Speaker 1: got into by chance. So you know this whole thing
Speaker 1: about six thousand umpires short and you know, like I
Speaker 1: was gonna ask you about that's fair? God keep going, Well,
Speaker 1: we haven't discovered fire, because you know, twenty odd years
Speaker 1: ago when I umpired my first game by accident, I
Speaker 1: went down to watch my youngest brother play. So my
Speaker 1: mum and dad were a bit worried about him. Come
Speaker 1: and take an interest in him. So I went down
Speaker 1: to watch him play and no umpire turned up. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so then the club president comes over and I'm
Speaker 1: playing in the under eighteen's that day goes ray. If
Speaker 1: you umpire, the game will fill your cart with petrol, right,
Speaker 1: and we won't let anyone hang any shit on you,
Speaker 1: right Like that's literally it by college of us my career.
Speaker 1: So I can't see Marma, you still giving me twenty
Speaker 1: bucks for petrol. She's like yep. So I pocketed that
Speaker 1: bit of commerce and then I went back and I said,
Speaker 1: all right, nah, I'm in. And it got to halftime
Speaker 1: and this old skinny I come over. His name is
Speaker 1: Bob Stacey, ripping human being. I learned more about umpiring
Speaker 1: in the three years that Bob was my coach and mentor.
Speaker 1: Then I've probably learned technically since he was just brilliant.
Speaker 1: This man's huge loan, right, and he is incredible. And
Speaker 1: he says to me, oh, how long you how long
Speaker 1: you been doing this for? And I said forty five
Speaker 1: minutes and he has no, no, not today, like like how long?
Speaker 1: I said, no one. I understood the question forty five minutes,
Speaker 1: face like, and he goes, you know, you can earn
Speaker 1: six figures part time doing this. And I think at
Speaker 1: the time, because I was in college, like I was
Speaker 1: in year eleven, I think I was working at Eagle
Speaker 1: Boys Pizza. Shout out to Eagle Boys Pizza. Let's go, mate,
Speaker 1: pink Pole. And the bonus structure at Eagle Boys was
Speaker 1: how many garlic breads you could knock off in a shifts,
Speaker 1: so huge, So six figures part time. I'm like, mate,
Speaker 1: I'm in. And I loved footy. I've always loved DFEL
Speaker 1: footy and I played two hundred and fifty games for
Speaker 1: my club. Guys like Aaron Hamil who is now coach
Speaker 1: at Carlton, oh yeah yeah, and Craig Bolton who played
Speaker 1: for Brisbane and Sydney. Yeah. Justin Bloomfield's a premiership player
Speaker 1: at Essendon. So these those lads were all in the
Speaker 1: same age group and now are a year younger than me.
Speaker 1: But that was sort of where I grew up. But
Speaker 1: I was no good and they were awesome. So anyway,
Speaker 1: I ended up umpiring and I loved it, mate, I
Speaker 1: loved it because it's anyway. But the point being is
Speaker 1: that there was shortage of umpires thirty years ago.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, So it's been a consistent like headline for
Speaker 3: thirty years.
Speaker 1: You yeah, And there's lots of reasons for that.
Speaker 3: I think it's just the fear of not having someone
Speaker 3: like and there's always constant scrutiny around it where everyone goes, oh, well,
Speaker 3: you know, like we need to get better at this,
Speaker 3: we need to get better in this, and the reason
Speaker 3: is because we don't have enough resources. We don't have
Speaker 3: this with that, you know, And it's like it's like
Speaker 3: an easy excuse maybe.
Speaker 1: I think also like there's lots of input, there's lots
Speaker 1: of simple things we could do, I think to help it.
Speaker 1: But I know lots of people are genuinely invested in
Speaker 1: trying to help recruit, retain, and make empiring something that's
Speaker 1: more appealing to broader community, so you know what, all
Speaker 1: power to them.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's interesting, you've kind of died on a few
Speaker 3: things and we're going to talk about definitely, but we'll
Speaker 3: go back to so I guess you talked about recently
Speaker 3: or sorry, just a second ago, about going and starting
Speaker 3: I guess a bit of school and then getting into
Speaker 3: umpiring and then from there having those kind of mentors
Speaker 3: and everything else. Now you're a man who's got a
Speaker 3: lot of experience in AFL and you've had a lot
Speaker 3: of mentors along the way, and you're probably now on
Speaker 3: the other side of the spectrum, where you're actually mentoring
Speaker 3: young kids along the way, what is some of your
Speaker 3: best advice Because you've had a successful career and it's
Speaker 3: not even done, Like, yes, you're I need to actually
Speaker 3: ask you this. How are you feeling? You've been injured,
Speaker 3: so I need to actually get an update here.
Speaker 1: So I've gone through the sorry, off the top of denial, denial,
Speaker 1: and I'll be fine, right, I'll be fine. Right, It's
Speaker 1: only a torn tendon in the hip, You'll be fine.
Speaker 1: I mean we've run a bit, but I'll be fine.
Speaker 1: To trying to rehab and realizing that potentially I won't
Speaker 1: be fine, right, So then anger, right, and then you know,
Speaker 1: you get your The office sook for a few days,
Speaker 1: and I'm at acceptance, acceptance, acceptance. So I've been I've
Speaker 1: done my rest. I've been in the gym, building the
Speaker 1: serreena and and just trying to yeah, get the strength
Speaker 1: and everything back, and I tomorrow I'll do my fifth
Speaker 1: run back. So I'm where we're working back in towards direction.
Speaker 1: You know what I do. I love the game, as
Speaker 1: I said, and I have such incredible regard for those
Speaker 1: who you know, the coaches, the players, and the fans.
Speaker 1: I mean you know that yourself, Like a couple of
Speaker 1: years where we didn't have fans there, like it was
Speaker 1: a different So I genuinely really highly value the game
Speaker 1: and everyone who's involved in it. And so yeah, I'm
Speaker 1: filthy when you watch these games that kicks after the
Speaker 1: sire and draws and rarah, and you're like, it's the
Speaker 1: last ten games of rus there just watching on the couch,
Speaker 1: going man. But but yeah, so I'll get there, I'll
Speaker 1: get back. Yeah.
Speaker 3: Well, with all the experience you have, what is what's
Speaker 3: some advice from maybe someone who's maybe listening, who doesn't
Speaker 3: quite know what they're going to do with her life,
Speaker 3: maybe doesn't have a thirty year plan. I mean, obviously
Speaker 3: you're probably life in general. You weren't probably planning to
Speaker 3: be an mPire. You're probably you know, as a kid,
Speaker 3: wishing to be a cricket player and play for Australia
Speaker 3: and all that and maybe playing the AFL. And then
Speaker 3: now you can't take a bit of a left turn,
Speaker 3: you're kind of doing something different. Like, what is your
Speaker 3: advice to someone who may be a bit lost in
Speaker 3: the sense of what the career is going to be
Speaker 3: going forward.
Speaker 1: This is awesome. And I was speaking to a young
Speaker 1: fellow only just last week actually and caught up with
Speaker 1: him and his parents. And I don't think you don't
Speaker 1: need to have a destination in mind. Really. I think
Speaker 1: it's great to have be aspirational and have people that
Speaker 1: are your heroes. I love George Gregan, he played for
Speaker 1: the Wallabies, right, And this guy was just the most
Speaker 1: fierce competitor and he was a cricket out and he
Speaker 1: was from Canberra, right, so I love this dude, right, yeah, absolutely,
Speaker 1: And then you know, so that's all cool, right, But
Speaker 1: I think what it's about is just trying to understand
Speaker 1: that being being happy, right, treating people well. So you
Speaker 1: know we all at different times, Mason are We're givers
Speaker 1: and takers at different times, right. And there's this saying
Speaker 1: that I kind of like, which is, you know, takers
Speaker 1: eat better, but give us sleep better. Right, And I
Speaker 1: think if you can just go I'm not here to
Speaker 1: be interesting. I'm actually wanting to be interested. Yeah that's
Speaker 1: really hard. And I think I've learned some of this
Speaker 1: stuff since being a dad actually to be fair, right, yeah, well,
Speaker 1: you know, we get caught up and I'll be doing
Speaker 1: this today because it's the nature of what we're doing, right.
Speaker 1: I will listen to your question and my intentions to respond, right,
Speaker 1: But when you're a dad, you actually you need to
Speaker 1: listen to hear them. Yeah, is actually more important. So
Speaker 1: then when you come back to your question, young person
Speaker 1: not sure what they want to be, you don't need
Speaker 1: to know the outcome. And you can have dreams and
Speaker 1: goals and aspirations and all that bullshit, but really what
Speaker 1: it is just bringing the best version of yourself every
Speaker 1: day feet hit the ground and the world goes. Look out,
Speaker 1: old mates into it and enjoy your life. So treat
Speaker 1: people well, find the joy, right, and then follow your nose.
Speaker 1: And I just you know, we're learning all the time.
Speaker 1: My mom is a great example. Hey, we love moms
Speaker 1: on the show. Right, My mum's a great example of
Speaker 1: the answer to this question, or just trying to give
Speaker 1: an illustration as to what I'm trying to say, Right,
Speaker 1: my mom went to typing school mate, Right, I still
Speaker 1: give a shit about that, Patricia Ellen Chamberlain, do you
Speaker 1: realize you're that old type in school? Raymond John? Right,
Speaker 1: it's madness. Right, So the point being is the world
Speaker 1: just evolves so rapidly, right, and all these different bits
Speaker 1: and pieces and you're zigging and zagging. So you we're learning.
Speaker 1: Nothing's done. Every day is a school day, all that gear, right,
Speaker 1: So don't fret about the outcome, right, Immerse yourself in
Speaker 1: what you're doing by all means, as I said, have
Speaker 1: aspirations and goals, but immerse yourself in the day and
Speaker 1: the people you're with.
Speaker 3: That's sharing the experience with those such a massive part
Speaker 3: of like actually being happy.
Speaker 1: I feel like totally and I don't want to get
Speaker 1: all number stay on people or whatever, but it is
Speaker 1: it's like, don't worry about where you land, right, it's
Speaker 1: that whole travel piece, and you know, winning and losing
Speaker 1: together the cool, the results whatever. I can think of
Speaker 1: some of our games we're we come up. I remember
Speaker 1: coming off a game with the SCG, I thought we
Speaker 1: were going to get crap beat out of it. So
Speaker 1: well so the security guards there I've known since I
Speaker 1: was a kid, right because I was doing with scurity.
Speaker 1: Those boys tight right, So AFL reserves and that, and
Speaker 1: I'd always you get the AFL would bring out these
Speaker 1: The broadcasters have a tie every year that have a
Speaker 1: broadcaster's tie, and I'd get one and I'd always give
Speaker 1: it to the security guard. He loved it, and he
Speaker 1: still looks after me today, this bloke, he's a legend
Speaker 1: in Citney. Anyway, we do this game and there'd been
Speaker 1: an error and this is back before your time. There's
Speaker 1: only one boundary on pire on each side, right, so
Speaker 1: those boys had to shammer mate. And if the ball
Speaker 1: got rebounded out of deep fifty, there's no way they
Speaker 1: could see it on the half of a flank, like
Speaker 1: it's physically impossible. And this ball on the replay it
Speaker 1: looked like the ball almost hit the fence, it was
Speaker 1: that far out right and got the goal results on that.
Speaker 1: Now they're up by two points. Fans are cutting losing
Speaker 1: it anyway, Essendon win and we're like Jesus, now I'm
Speaker 1: in the field, so I'm washing my hands clear of
Speaker 1: this has got nothing to do with me. Right where
Speaker 1: we're about to make our way off and you've got
Speaker 1: to walk with the crowd in Sydney and the security
Speaker 1: guards come barreling out, now they don't normally do that.
Speaker 1: They meet us about five meters off the ground and
Speaker 1: he's come running out Jesus and he just looked at me.
Speaker 1: He goes, keep your mouth shut and your head down. Right. Wow. Anyway,
Speaker 1: it was a pretty ordinary reception this day, right, But
Speaker 1: we still talk about that night. Yeah, Like Scott McLaren
Speaker 1: and Chris Donlin and myself we were the three umpires
Speaker 1: right as forever ago. But I remember that like it
Speaker 1: was last night. So it wasn't a great night for it.
Speaker 1: Off the field, no, no, we walked off. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: would have been dead spread, no chance. Yeah, it wasn't great.
Speaker 1: And I remember I learned a lot because so we
Speaker 1: were the embryos, right and Scottie he was like the
Speaker 1: old boy who was responsible. Now, it had nothing to
Speaker 1: do with him that because it was a boundary on Pire,
Speaker 1: but he knew he was going to be held accountable
Speaker 1: boy our coaches that things didn't go the way they
Speaker 1: meant to write. He was so flat after the game
Speaker 1: because we had this umpiring issue, right, And I learned
Speaker 1: the responsibility actually that is accompanied in the role. Up
Speaker 1: until that, I just thought it was really cool to
Speaker 1: be doing these games. I didn't realize for the big
Speaker 1: dogs back and ending of it, what comes with it, right,
Speaker 1: because I'm still too new to understand. So even in
Speaker 1: the losses, you've got these great stories and memories and
Speaker 1: it's because of the people that you're with. So really, mate,
Speaker 1: that's a long way for us getting to answer your question,
Speaker 1: but quite frankly that you get on with your day.
Speaker 3: It's about the people you were with and the experiences
Speaker 3: you have, memories you create, agreed numbers, stake numbers. Numbers correct,
Speaker 3: We'll go back to your university. Now, your teacher, that's
Speaker 3: what they're in teaching?
Speaker 1: Is that right now?
Speaker 3: I feel like teaching and the way a lot of
Speaker 3: people know you is you. Someone might have a crack
Speaker 3: at you and you kind of go, oh, that's inappropriate. Now,
Speaker 3: it put you to know, don't say those kind of words.
Speaker 3: We're not about that. You know, like you very you
Speaker 3: like a teacher to the too.
Speaker 1: Players.
Speaker 3: I feel like sometimes there's a bit on that. Now,
Speaker 3: what lessons have you learned in teaching that you apply
Speaker 3: to your life now? Because teaching is something that we
Speaker 3: I think undervalue as a society. Teachers have the hardest
Speaker 3: job that you will ever find anyone else in this world.
Speaker 1: To have you spent four years doing your Bachelor of education, right,
Speaker 1: come out, you get a job. If you're any good,
Speaker 1: they load up with every other responsibility that you can
Speaker 1: think of because they're so underresourced. Right, this is within
Speaker 1: the system. And then so what happens then the very
Speaker 1: last thing that you get to is actually the pedagogy, right,
Speaker 1: the science of teaching and learning. It's the last You
Speaker 1: don't even get to it because you're doing every other
Speaker 1: thing within the system and your three steps from the door,
Speaker 1: and it's like, what lesson is this? Who's here? What
Speaker 1: are we doing today? And I found that really hard
Speaker 1: to actually accept. I was, actually I meant to be
Speaker 1: engaging with each of these individuals and understanding them and
Speaker 1: then conveying things in a way that you understand versus
Speaker 1: they understand versus. And I'm not doing any of that
Speaker 1: because I'm doing administering all these other programs and whatever, right,
Speaker 1: So that I found that really really quite frustrating. So, yeah,
Speaker 1: teaching is a challenge. What I mean, I think one
Speaker 1: of the cool things like if I talk to you
Speaker 1: in a certain and we've got an issue to discuss
Speaker 1: or whatever, I can talk in a certain way. But
Speaker 1: if I'm talking with Dustin Martin, as an example, it
Speaker 1: will be far more succinct and it'll be just move on, right,
Speaker 1: Versus if I talk to somebody over here where they
Speaker 1: don't even want to be spoken to. Have you taken
Speaker 1: personalities of players before you tike to on, so you
Speaker 1: absolutely understand that you've got to have the whole golf
Speaker 1: set right. You can't just bring a driver to everyone
Speaker 1: every event, you know, maybe just laying up with a
Speaker 1: seven nine I'll be fine, right, And that's the craft
Speaker 1: of what we do. So it's not necessarily an athletic
Speaker 1: event that we do. It's not it. I don't think
Speaker 1: it's a young dude's game at the elite level. Actually, yeah,
Speaker 1: because you haven't learned enough, failed enough as a human
Speaker 1: rights life experiences drying and go. Actually, and so as
Speaker 1: much as you want to, I think you're challenged. It's
Speaker 1: challenging to have the empathy that's required and then also understanding, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: that's fine, but this is my job, especially in the
Speaker 1: heat of the moment. So the other part to it
Speaker 1: is we're in a really weird time right where we
Speaker 1: want everything to be perfect and see that you know,
Speaker 1: it's got to be right or wrong. Yeah, well that's actual,
Speaker 1: that's not what happens in our game, mate, But we're
Speaker 1: dealing in things like reasonable time, prior opportunity, genuine attempt.
Speaker 1: So it's subjective in nature, right with the AFL see right,
Speaker 1: drop it. This is where you got to You got
Speaker 1: to just get just sip on the tea for sip
Speaker 1: on the tea for a minute and just consider this. Right.
Speaker 1: So one hundred thousand at the g right, you're taking
Speaker 1: hangers against the tigers and it's going nuts, right, and
Speaker 1: there's a tackle on center wing. Okay, one hundred thousand people,
Speaker 1: they're fifty right, and fifty thousand go back, and then
Speaker 1: this little dude in the green shirt goes play on
Speaker 1: and then one hundred thousand people Mason come together and
Speaker 1: they agree on one thing. I don't know what I'm doing,
Speaker 1: But then they talk about it all week, and it's
Speaker 1: TV shows and it's coffees, and it's newspapers and it's podcasts. Right,
Speaker 1: And that's actually the beauty of the game, mate, So
Speaker 1: it's not a black and white game. You want that,
Speaker 1: go to the tennis. They'll have a seat, lots of
Speaker 1: empty seats. Okay, we'll tell you right, boring, you can
Speaker 1: do that. If that's your stick, but that's not what
Speaker 1: we trade in here, okay, right, and so and the
Speaker 1: whole game itself is predicated around this ambiguity but also
Speaker 1: this management piece. So we run around with this whole
Speaker 1: idea that we've got to be right all the time,
Speaker 1: just get it right. And they're different. They're different, and
Speaker 1: we have trouble with that. We have trouble selling that,
Speaker 1: and we have trouble understanding that. I think, yeah, and
Speaker 1: I think that's where we get some of the the fights.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because I've always had a thing with IFL is
Speaker 3: very There is a lot of ambiguity around stuff, and
Speaker 3: rules change every year, which is a wild thing to
Speaker 3: say about a sport. It's like it might be that
Speaker 3: one year, that might might not be. You were telling
Speaker 3: me a story about bouncing the ball in the middle
Speaker 3: of the games, not in the center bounce, and I
Speaker 3: was just like, oh, that actually happened.
Speaker 1: I had no idea sorted out.
Speaker 3: Which people are wondering whether bounces are going to be
Speaker 3: in the IFL in five years and it was like
Speaker 3: that was everywhere.
Speaker 1: So it is changing quite a bit.
Speaker 3: But we all will dive into more of you on
Speaker 3: paring because I've got you here and I can talk
Speaker 3: to you forever to be honest.
Speaker 1: But all fast forward a bit.
Speaker 3: Now you have done what is probably some of my
Speaker 3: supporters have remembered and one of the most unique experiences
Speaker 3: that's ever happened.
Speaker 1: It's a Grand Final rematch. Yes, now, can you talk
Speaker 1: to that day?
Speaker 3: Maybe some smaller stories that happened kind of in there
Speaker 3: that maybe some people don't know about. It was just
Speaker 3: because that day is iconic and not just for that
Speaker 3: fan of Saint Kilda and Collingwood and all that, But
Speaker 3: I think just as for the sport itself, to have
Speaker 3: a Grand Final rematch is something that's just you'll never
Speaker 3: maybe see again.
Speaker 1: No you won't. They've changed the rules, so they won't.
Speaker 1: They'll finish it on that day, no matter what overtime
Speaker 1: blah blah blah. They might change it. I reckon they won't.
Speaker 1: There's a couple of really cool things, and I've got
Speaker 1: to say I was blessed in that the support that
Speaker 1: I had with my colleagues. So I had two of
Speaker 1: our umpires who, apart from being fabulous umpires like in
Speaker 1: what we do, they're our greats. Okay, they're ripping humans
Speaker 1: and they're different. They're different guys. They're really smart, they're
Speaker 1: that they and they're bloody brilliant at what they do,
Speaker 1: and so they they I knew I was so well
Speaker 1: protected and surrounded. Right. So I'm forever indebted to Sean
Speaker 1: Ryan and Brett Rosebery in terms of how they treated
Speaker 1: me for the whole week and then and then the
Speaker 1: ensuing week because it's massive. It's a different experience. It's massive.
Speaker 1: You get hundreds of text messages and there's media, and
Speaker 1: there's training eventually, and then there's bluddy parades and all
Speaker 1: this stuff that you've never done before and you're naked, mate,
Speaker 1: Like Friday, I've got home from the Grand Final parade.
Speaker 1: Whole war was knackered mate. When I said to my said, honestly,
Speaker 1: we'll pick this up right. So it's a huge week.
Speaker 1: And so they did all the heavy lifting, Sean and Brett,
Speaker 1: and I just had to try and manage myself. So
Speaker 1: I owe them massively. But a couple of really I
Speaker 1: think interesting stories. Well, certainly for us, we had not
Speaker 1: had a draw. Yeah. I remember at the end Nick
Speaker 1: Maxwell and Nick Rewelt were here and Nickreewelt said to me,
Speaker 1: what happens now, right, and I said, well, if that's
Speaker 1: if that's accurate, we have to come back next week.
Speaker 1: Oh jeesus. So he dropped a few, so he gave
Speaker 1: me some feedback, the big fella. And then I remember
Speaker 1: walking off and Adrian Anderson was walking onto the ground
Speaker 1: with Peter Material and they were going to present the
Speaker 1: Norm Smith Medal for the best player on the ground.
Speaker 1: And Adrian's a really disciplined straight you workface bang right,
Speaker 1: and he's walking on and obviously realizes it's they're going
Speaker 1: to sell it out again next week, you know that
Speaker 1: sort of stuff. I ever heard him swear, right, He's like,
Speaker 1: great job. And I said the boys, I said, I reckon,
Speaker 1: we're sweet for next week. Another break, let's do it again.
Speaker 1: But we come off the ground and like normally, what
Speaker 1: happens is there's a bath and it's full of champagne, right,
Speaker 1: and that quickly got emptied, right, and and all the
Speaker 1: hierarchy came in and like very much, get ready for it,
Speaker 1: well done, pull your heads in, get ready for next week.
Speaker 1: You've got a week to go. And like we have
Speaker 1: all like you guys, do you know we have our
Speaker 1: silly Sundays and all those sorts of things, and you've
Speaker 1: bought the outfit and you couldn't go couldn't go right,
Speaker 1: so all of those things spilled out of it. I
Speaker 1: remember different different parts of the game. I remember going
Speaker 1: out there and Brett took the first bounce and they
Speaker 1: said just get it in an end zone and just
Speaker 1: get into the vibe of the game. Relax, you know,
Speaker 1: And Darren Jolly kicks a goal twenty three seconds in.
Speaker 1: I'm standing in the middle of the MCG with go
Speaker 1: up straight, you mustard right, So that was cool, and
Speaker 1: I just remember how hot it was, so you know
Speaker 1: your umpire. So back then the way you got appointed
Speaker 1: to games was different to now. So if you're going well,
Speaker 1: you got the bigger games, deemed the more high profile
Speaker 1: games Friday, Friday night, Saturday night, and so for the
Speaker 1: last eight weeks of the season, I unpied at nighttime
Speaker 1: in Melbourne every week. So it's like four degrees right,
Speaker 1: different Grand Final day it's twenty six degrees. I just
Speaker 1: remember and I could run right. I remember going she's hot.
Speaker 1: So it was just all those little nuances. I remember
Speaker 1: seeing the screen at one stage and there's they've cut
Speaker 1: Eric Banner and Michael klymm go on, geez, all the
Speaker 1: big dogs are in town, you know. So it was
Speaker 1: it was a really unique experience and I got to say, yeah,
Speaker 1: one of the coolest, so of the coolest two weeks
Speaker 1: of my sporting career for sure. Do you know how
Speaker 1: many guys and at this stage it's only been men
Speaker 1: in the field. Do you know how many umpires in
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty years have unpired an AFL Grand
Speaker 1: Final as a field umpire? So one hundred eighty years
Speaker 1: of foot.
Speaker 5: Year year, that's unpack it he on hundred years, so
Speaker 5: you've got one umpire for a while, and then they
Speaker 5: went to two and for like twenty five or plus years.
Speaker 1: It might be longer than that, might be closer to thirty.
Speaker 1: Actually now we've had three in the field. So one
Speaker 1: hundred and eighty years, how many people have had the
Speaker 1: opportunity to umpire an AFL Grand Final? Like one fifty
Speaker 1: less than sixty what less than sixty fifty? Yeah, one
Speaker 1: hundred percent in the field, right, So they don't just
Speaker 1: hand these out. Yeah, like people always go, oh, you're
Speaker 1: doing the Grand Final this year? Mate, walk through this
Speaker 1: with me, I know. So it's really hard it's a
Speaker 1: special club to be afforded the chance. And so yeah too,
Speaker 1: Like I've did two in one year, which was super cool,
Speaker 1: And I've sat on the bench three times. That's the
Speaker 1: worst seat in the world. You're the first loser. And
Speaker 1: then I got to do another one in twenty and nineteen.
Speaker 1: So to be involved six times and three times on
Speaker 1: the field, Yeah, it's just it's just the best. It's
Speaker 1: so cool.
Speaker 3: I were in twenty eighteen. Sorry, yeah, twenty eighteen and
Speaker 3: we played. I walked out on the ground before the
Speaker 3: game and you were there and you were filthy. You
Speaker 3: were not you were not in a good meet this
Speaker 3: trap to be there. You were rupp to be there.
Speaker 3: But I mean like you wanted to be on the field.
Speaker 3: You were the subsects of the day. And I was like,
Speaker 3: I remember talking and you were just like I was
Speaker 3: all like happy, excited about the Grand Final, like just
Speaker 3: locked in.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, I just want to be on phone today.
Speaker 1: And the hardest thing about it is that the three
Speaker 1: people who have the spot that you jealously want to
Speaker 1: be in yeah there mates, Oh exactly, And you were
Speaker 1: trained with them all the time, all the time, right,
Speaker 1: and like those three people who unpighted in that game.
Speaker 1: We don't pied together, and we've known each other since
Speaker 1: we're like in our early twenties. Yeah, we've gone out
Speaker 1: to get weddings and birthdays and children being born and
Speaker 1: all that stuff. So they're your mates, right, and you
Speaker 1: only want them to succeed because the group is being
Speaker 1: presented by and the game is being represented by those
Speaker 1: three people on the field at that time, and we
Speaker 1: all just we're just waiting to exhale, right, we don't win,
Speaker 1: all lose, right, we don't want to breathe out and
Speaker 1: be able to get on with life. Right, So you
Speaker 1: want them to do super well. But at the same time,
Speaker 1: you've got this thing where you go, man, that close
Speaker 1: come on, you know? So yeah, one hundred percent and
Speaker 1: what a great game, Like I know you guys would
Speaker 1: be a result whatever, but brilliant match and like incredible day.
Speaker 1: What'd you have called it? I got a better idea
Speaker 1: first quarter, first quarter when Langdon didn't want to rush
Speaker 1: the ball? Would have you rushed it? I remember that
Speaker 1: because there's there's two hours. We can go back to
Speaker 1: any moment you want. It's a foot off the line.
Speaker 1: You just got to rush over all of us. It's
Speaker 1: just implanted in my head.
Speaker 3: Okay on grand finals though, because as players, I don't understand.
Speaker 3: It's my first one to a grand final. People told
Speaker 3: me I said Grandfather was unpired totally different. I didn't
Speaker 3: get it. I didn't. I didn't think I, Oh, you know,
Speaker 3: it's a game. Everyone does the same thing. You know,
Speaker 3: you get umpired the same way you would on a
Speaker 3: regular match day, and it is unpired differently. Now I
Speaker 3: want to ask you why.
Speaker 1: Why is that? Had a curiousity and a fan of it.
Speaker 1: I'll answer that openly and honestly, but I'm going to
Speaker 1: start with a question. So you've made it, You've made
Speaker 1: an assertion. You've said that it's umpired differently. Right, So
Speaker 1: I'm going to say, how, tell me how in your eyes? Right,
Speaker 1: because this is cool, you've played in them. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: is it unpied different? It is not. It's not ticky
Speaker 1: tack It is loose.
Speaker 3: It is that can be too many high tackles or
Speaker 3: holding the balls or holding the man or anything like that.
Speaker 1: It is just play on and just it is. It's
Speaker 1: really just an arm wrestle.
Speaker 3: I feel like at times trying to get like the
Speaker 3: ball are trying to get past them one whoever it is,
Speaker 3: because you realize that like you're not going to get
Speaker 3: you really have to actually get a disposal off and
Speaker 3: do it correctly because it's no gifts.
Speaker 1: There's no gifts. That's fine, So I get that, understand
Speaker 1: where you're coming from with that. I'd ask you to
Speaker 1: consider this, right, So, of the twenty four players that
Speaker 1: took the field in twenty eighteen, yep, for you guys,
Speaker 1: were they You're considered your best twenty four players that
Speaker 1: we had available. So yeah, yeah, it'd have to be. Yeah. Great.
Speaker 1: So we have thirty four umpires on our list. Yeah,
Speaker 1: some have just debuted, some have umpired four hundred and
Speaker 1: fifty games, right, So we've whittled them down, and there
Speaker 1: are three left standing. Four four. Well I've been there
Speaker 1: three times, No, and I was I was sitting, was standing.
Speaker 1: There are three left standing, trust me, right, and and
Speaker 1: they are the best. They are the best, and that
Speaker 1: doesn't make them infallible. We're human and we will make errors,
Speaker 1: et cetera. But they are pretty damn good and have
Speaker 1: demonstrated at it at that time they are flying. And
Speaker 1: so what happens is everything gels right. So on field
Speaker 1: you'll have system at structure, at stoppage and behind the ball,
Speaker 1: and when you turn it over, you know you know
Speaker 1: where you've got to fall back to and what you've
Speaker 1: got to do and whatever we have same, we've got
Speaker 1: system and structure and what happens for you. If someone
Speaker 1: doesn't fall back and do their job in the matter
Speaker 1: in which they are meant to, you get picked apart.
Speaker 1: You can see to goal right. If we don't have
Speaker 1: somebody doing what they're meant to do, we get picked apart,
Speaker 1: and free kickout error occurs, and set kick control is
Speaker 1: a cock up, and there's a miss fifty or a
Speaker 1: fifty paid that shouldn't have been or whatever's things start
Speaker 1: to just you start picking at the pulling it and
Speaker 1: next thing go a big hole in you jump right,
Speaker 1: it's the same thing. But what you've got is the
Speaker 1: three best. They do everything right and it's not sexy talk.
Speaker 1: It's just disciplined every time getting it right, and you
Speaker 1: know they're going to do it. You don't even have
Speaker 1: to look. So why are we umpire differently? We don't.
Speaker 1: We've just got three dudes who are killing it. Yeah,
Speaker 1: right with the best players who aren't prepared to take
Speaker 1: the piss because games are so tight. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be the dude that does something with ill discipline
Speaker 1: cost fifty costs a goal and we get twidded by
Speaker 1: a point. I can't live with myself. I'm not doing it.
Speaker 1: So it's all these inputs that result in the overall product.
Speaker 1: It's not done differently, mate, It's just done well. It's
Speaker 1: a good way to put it, very good way to
Speaker 1: put it.
Speaker 3: I ask this because there's you're told abally the three
Speaker 3: and you have to have gel between three people, and
Speaker 3: that do you kind of travel as umpire as groups
Speaker 3: we do?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: And is there kind of like some that you guess
Speaker 3: like are more experienced with each other therefore they kind
Speaker 3: of travel more often together, if that makes sense?
Speaker 1: Because I remember back.
Speaker 3: To COVID days and this is probably where I really
Speaker 3: gained I think, an enormous amount of respect for empires
Speaker 3: because you never really think of all the I guess
Speaker 3: things people give up to do their job, and then
Speaker 3: whenever that happened and the world's got turned upside down,
Speaker 3: you realize, like everyone gave up everything to do this
Speaker 3: career of AFL and to go and travel the world
Speaker 3: and travel the country and do all quarantine everything else.
Speaker 3: I remember being in quarantine Perth, and I remember like
Speaker 3: traveling on planes with you guys, and you're doing hotels
Speaker 3: with you guys and everything else, and it was like
Speaker 3: these guys are doing the exact guys and girls are
Speaker 3: doing the exact same that we're having to do, and
Speaker 3: don't get like the you know, the praise and the
Speaker 3: glory and all this other stuff, like they just get
Speaker 3: bashed like twenty four to seven, and they're doing all
Speaker 3: the same, like you know, they're giving up as much
Speaker 3: as we are, and they're having to travel around all
Speaker 3: these crazy things, and these governments are making everyone do
Speaker 3: and it's not even like reported on and it's like
Speaker 3: this is just expected.
Speaker 1: From the IFL. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to play
Speaker 1: a game. There was a game where the three umpires
Speaker 1: flew in on a charter to Adelaide, and this is
Speaker 1: when things were really on the move and we'd all
Speaker 1: been essentially in New South Wales and then they dispersed
Speaker 1: us to Queensland, Perth depending on different border issues. Anyway,
Speaker 1: two of the three, I think, but certainly at least two,
Speaker 1: if not all three, had been in New South Wales
Speaker 1: within a certain time period, which meant South Australia wouldn't
Speaker 1: let him in. So they've arrived, they've landed, and the
Speaker 1: coppers are there and they've gone they can do bro
Speaker 1: and you're gonna go to the hotel for two weeks
Speaker 1: and park yourself there? What now? Fortunately one of them
Speaker 1: was a barrister and he goes, I don't think that's
Speaker 1: how it's going to unfold. A conversation ensued anyway, So
Speaker 1: they weren't going umpire. The game end off. They can
Speaker 1: get back on a plane. They went back to the
Speaker 1: Gold Coast, right, but they weren't going to So now
Speaker 1: we've got no umpires there. So phones are going berserk. Right,
Speaker 1: dudes are on the on the golf course where and
Speaker 1: they're looking for people who have not been in Sydney
Speaker 1: in the last fourteen days? Right and again they go
Speaker 1: get to the airport now, so dudes are just grabbing
Speaker 1: their staff hoofing it to the airport. They've got a
Speaker 1: private jet is going to private make this up huge
Speaker 1: hook it in land. They're in their kit there's no
Speaker 1: change of clothes whatever they are ready to roll into
Speaker 1: the car. Copper's wolf on to the ground. Everyone's out
Speaker 1: there warming up the broadcast as a talk and Mark
Speaker 1: Raschudo has got his thing gun whatever, right, and then
Speaker 1: like two minutes before they're meant to start the game,
Speaker 1: these umpires come barreling out the barreling out the race
Speaker 1: and start paying away to go right. So it was
Speaker 1: just madness. It was madness. And you know, in the
Speaker 1: two seasons that we had in twenty twenty one, and
Speaker 1: I'm only representative of everyone else on the list. I'm
Speaker 1: not special, right, I spent eight months out of my house. Yeah,
Speaker 1: like so, and you know, you've got a young one
Speaker 1: and a wife, and you've got a small business that
Speaker 1: you're trying to run and all those things, and we're
Speaker 1: all impacted differently. We're everyone globally. It's a pandemic, right,
Speaker 1: But yeah, it was pretty full on. Our group knew
Speaker 1: that it was so important that we fronted because it's
Speaker 1: not about us. But unfortunately, if we don't lob there's
Speaker 1: no game doesn't happen. And that I remember initial conversations
Speaker 1: and there was all this concern about, you know, because
Speaker 1: we didn't know about anything going to get paid, you know,
Speaker 1: how we're going to see our family, what will happen,
Speaker 1: But we just had to have faith that the AFL
Speaker 1: would do everything they could to support us. I remember
Speaker 1: having this conversation with the group at some point we
Speaker 1: actually just need to put out faith in that we're
Speaker 1: going to get treated the right way. Yeah, and we
Speaker 1: were and we were in space right. So I will
Speaker 1: look back on it if it's a twenty chapter book,
Speaker 1: right that twenty twenty and twenty twenty one, they will
Speaker 1: probably be the best read to hold that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, because you had the Wirbnb with a few other
Speaker 3: on fires release that I remember we had a.
Speaker 1: Scarborough beach pad for a period of time. That was
Speaker 1: that was like I think Kanye had been there before,
Speaker 1: Like it was pretty good, and that was that was
Speaker 1: just a lucky sort of thing, but the best you know,
Speaker 1: and you know, hanging with hanging with your colleagues and
Speaker 1: actually hearing about and meeting their families and all those
Speaker 1: things when they came in for a period. So true,
Speaker 1: it was really cool, Like it was a unique experience
Speaker 1: out of the twenty year chapter twenty chapter career. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so it was. It was fun. But I've got to
Speaker 1: be honest, I really loved it.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I think one of the coolest things. Like we
Speaker 3: because we were up in twin Widers and we had
Speaker 3: two other teams that are always up there with us,
Speaker 3: and like you talk about all the other families, like
Speaker 3: everyone's kids became friends and they're like, you go playing
Speaker 3: against these guys on the weekend. You know, I don't
Speaker 3: really know each other because like you just kind of
Speaker 3: maybe you played against each other growing up, whoever it is,
Speaker 3: but like you actually really got to know like people
Speaker 3: and their families and like hung out together and stuff
Speaker 3: like that, which is really cool. Like that doesn't really
Speaker 3: happen anywhere else or any other experience.
Speaker 1: And I remember, I remember so all the families come
Speaker 1: from period, right, and that was a bit controversy on
Speaker 1: that going or quarantine, and there was all the AFL
Speaker 1: and a few of the officials that have to come up,
Speaker 1: and I remember going, Okay, who do I know? It
Speaker 1: probably really matters, and like so I took I would
Speaker 1: get on their LinkedIn page or whatever and takes a greenshot.
Speaker 1: I sent them to my wife and go show some
Speaker 1: respect across this person, just to say hello, right, for
Speaker 1: God's sake, But no as I said, you know, we
Speaker 1: were looked after incredibly well, and we always you will
Speaker 1: have issues that bob up along the way and you
Speaker 1: can have it be a bit aggrieved about something or whatever,
Speaker 1: but in a time that was you know, really no
Speaker 1: one Jesus right, we were looked after brilliantly. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: talk about that with the AFL.
Speaker 3: And I guess the connection between the umpires and the
Speaker 3: AFL because you're very reliant on them, they're relying on you.
Speaker 3: It's a very very mutual I guess respect in that sense.
Speaker 3: Now whenever it comes to I guess reviewing games like
Speaker 3: AFL and yourself, like let's say AFI wants to adjudicate
Speaker 3: something now or a change a rule or whatever it
Speaker 3: may be, or look at things in a different light,
Speaker 3: like I mean, obviously we'll probably dubble on it because
Speaker 3: there's obviously quite I guess Top Court the MoMA is
Speaker 3: guinea and had high tackles and all that.
Speaker 1: But how is the I guess.
Speaker 3: Like the stream of communication come from the AFL umpires
Speaker 3: to I guess, change things when you need to change it,
Speaker 3: or adjudicate things in different ways whenever they come up.
Speaker 1: Without getting too forensic, if a rule is going to
Speaker 1: be changed, not an interpretation, is that's an actual rule.
Speaker 1: It's going to come from the commission. Yeah, so they
Speaker 1: have to sign off on all of that. Okay, so
Speaker 1: there's due process there, and of course you've got the
Speaker 1: executive and then Brad Scott and his team in that
Speaker 1: part is a streamline there, and then they'll be having conversation.
Speaker 1: It's driven by data, coaches, players, association, right, all of
Speaker 1: that stuff's getting thrown around, and then ultimately what will
Speaker 1: happen is there'll be a direction and that will be
Speaker 1: afforded to the umpiring department. Yep, this is what we're seeking,
Speaker 1: this is why, this is what underpins it, this is
Speaker 1: what we're trying to change. These are the reasons for
Speaker 1: the change rather right, And so then we will get
Speaker 1: taken along on that journey with examples, questions, all really
Speaker 1: important stuff when you're trying to contextualize this amendment that
Speaker 1: you're not going to get two exact examples. They might
Speaker 1: be similar, but no two are exactly the same, and
Speaker 1: we have to and then make the right call. Right,
Speaker 1: So you need to understand it to a depth that
Speaker 1: will allow you to do that. So there's a lot
Speaker 1: of that, but we get to see a whole heap
Speaker 1: of vision, multiple examples plenty. As I said, all this
Speaker 1: debate and not as though we're going to change anything.
Speaker 1: That's not what it's about. It's about making sure that
Speaker 1: it's cemented in our head. What am I looking for? Yeah?
Speaker 1: And why so that we're very well supported in that
Speaker 1: sense and ultimately our responsibility. So I'd say to people
Speaker 1: all the time, my opportunity to have a like, to
Speaker 1: have choice around decision making is at its highest when
Speaker 1: I'm ordering off the room surface menu. Right, Like we're told, Hey,
Speaker 1: these are the rules, these are the interpretations, this is
Speaker 1: what we want, you want to get picked, this is
Speaker 1: what you need to do. Right, So I need to
Speaker 1: park whatever individual view of the game I may have,
Speaker 1: which will be different to yours and the person at
Speaker 1: the coffee shop. Right, My job is to implement the
Speaker 1: instructions in accordance with what I've been given. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: your extension of the end of and so park your
Speaker 1: fan hat and do your job. And that's actually really challenging, right,
Speaker 1: because we're all passionate about it. You can't get involved
Speaker 1: an elite level if you don't have a passion for it. Exactly,
Speaker 1: you won't survive because it sucks, it whears you down
Speaker 1: and you're at right. So we're all passion involved, and
Speaker 1: so then you've got to park whatever emotional attachment you
Speaker 1: might have to something and go, what's my job here.
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to deliver on this. That's what I'm here
Speaker 1: to do. So that's that's part of the lens through
Speaker 1: which umpires view the game.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, it's going to be such a tough thing
Speaker 3: to to be. I guess like someone else's voice in
Speaker 3: a sense, like very muchly makes sense, the ifl's voice
Speaker 3: on what is the rules of the game? I heat
Speaker 3: there's stuff to say like a paperworker for like you know,
Speaker 3: this is this rule, this is this rule, But like
Speaker 3: you're the one in the pressure of the moment that's
Speaker 3: actually adjudicating and making those rules actually stand up correct.
Speaker 3: And I feel like that that bit's actually just as
Speaker 3: hard as actually making rules and understand like changing everything
Speaker 3: else like that. I feel like it's almost the hardest
Speaker 3: thing is to actually be the conduit of the A
Speaker 3: f L and the players to say this is how
Speaker 3: the game's going to be played.
Speaker 1: And I think it's actually really, I've not had it.
Speaker 1: I don't think it's been I've never been in a
Speaker 1: conversation with some one and who's articulated in that way.
Speaker 1: And I think it's a really I think it's brilliantly
Speaker 1: articulated and it's exactly what we do. And one thing
Speaker 1: that's changed in my twenty years involvement is this understanding
Speaker 1: and acceptance from the industry that a couple of things.
Speaker 1: One is that umpires will make a mistake. So if
Speaker 1: they've cocked one up, that's not the rule or the
Speaker 1: interpretation they they were a human being, like you miss
Speaker 1: a target, you double clutch a mark, whatever, right, you
Speaker 1: make mistakes. And then there's the other bit where the game,
Speaker 1: the industry, media even I think are much more empathetic
Speaker 1: around this, where they go, actually, no, that's what they're
Speaker 1: being asked to do. They don't pile on umpiring so much.
Speaker 1: They'll talk more in reference to them, to individualize the pride,
Speaker 1: and I think that's awesome. I think that's been a
Speaker 1: really good progression and an understanding that, hey, like you've intimated,
Speaker 1: you're just a conduit, so it's not don't blame here
Speaker 1: if you got a problem with the rule upstream. If
Speaker 1: there's a problem with the implementation, then yeah, that's on
Speaker 1: the individual. Yeah, you make an error, it's a what
Speaker 1: is it? It's wins and losses industries right where they're
Speaker 1: saying right, get it right or get out. Yeah. Yeah,
Speaker 1: so you know that's that's part of the challenge because
Speaker 1: I feel like people don't realize that.
Speaker 3: I guess umpires are kind of they're similar in the
Speaker 3: sense of like to players, as like you are reviewed
Speaker 3: every week, and like if you're not going well, like
Speaker 3: you get dropped and then you get moved up if
Speaker 3: you are going well, and like it's kind of weird
Speaker 3: because I think the AFI makes it seem as like
Speaker 3: empires are supposed to be in the background. They're not
Speaker 3: supposed to be seen. Really, They're not really supposed to
Speaker 3: be part of necessarily like the highlights package of every day,
Speaker 3: you know, like they want them to just you know,
Speaker 3: maneuver things to make sure all works out. Everyone understands
Speaker 3: they're in the same place, in the right places at
Speaker 3: the right time, telling them in direction what they need
Speaker 3: to do. But they don't want them to be in
Speaker 3: front of like the camera per se yep, and I'll
Speaker 3: talk back to a you did make a highlight recently,
Speaker 3: this is this is a few a few years ago.
Speaker 3: Now eron ball. Let's just say it was kicked. There's
Speaker 3: a very iconic moment in your career. Probably not something
Speaker 3: you want to have in your highlights.
Speaker 1: But.
Speaker 3: Let's say you hit your package. Let's just say that
Speaker 3: for your highlights package of all. If someone kicks it
Speaker 3: off side and hits you in the package and you
Speaker 3: just you just take it, like some people would just
Speaker 3: go kidding me that this ridiculous full You just take it.
Speaker 3: Strike and you're like, there's the first time probably I
Speaker 3: realized what this meant, and that means I'm bold, And
Speaker 3: that was yeah, I'm out.
Speaker 1: Whatever it was for ten outs, whatever the hell is
Speaker 1: that's right. And I couldn't stop the laughing.
Speaker 3: I think it was such like an iconic moment that
Speaker 3: just described you so well. I was like, this man
Speaker 3: just gets on with it. He just is himself, has
Speaker 3: a laugh, enjoys life.
Speaker 1: And just moves on. You can come at me like
Speaker 1: a month. I never apologized. I really didn't do it
Speaker 1: on purpose. He doesn't know me an apology at all,
Speaker 1: and he's volleyed this thing and it's come out of
Speaker 1: it like a cannon and I couldn't go under it.
Speaker 1: I couldn't go over it. I'm like, oh man, and
Speaker 1: it hit me. And so you carry your spare whistle
Speaker 1: like a pocket inside like like where you put your keys,
Speaker 1: and a bruise. I got hit my cricket and you know,
Speaker 1: the crowd went nuts and they loved it. Right, we
Speaker 1: were never happier and I just remember that went that's
Speaker 1: out right and they lost it. But I think again, right,
Speaker 1: this is again coming down to understanding, like what's there
Speaker 1: to fred about? Yeah, like it's okay, next, you know so,
Speaker 1: but nah, a bit of a bit of fun.
Speaker 3: Now we'll move into well, actually we'll finish this foota
Speaker 3: chatter off because a lot of people obviously it's very
Speaker 3: top quarthor moment and I won't go to in depth
Speaker 3: inn to becase I want to get to any means,
Speaker 3: but I want to get your take.
Speaker 1: On high tackling at the moment.
Speaker 3: It's a lot of a lot of media around it,
Speaker 3: a lot of media i'd like to get. I guess
Speaker 3: your take on the ruling that is, and what's being
Speaker 3: told from the umpire's side of things.
Speaker 1: If that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. I spoke about this
Speaker 1: publicly last week on a different like on a radio
Speaker 1: thing I do. So that's not a problem. So what's
Speaker 1: really important to understand this is what's underpinning it is
Speaker 1: actually care, a duty of care for the players holistically
Speaker 1: across the entire competition. Right, So what fundamentally underpins the
Speaker 1: laws of Australian rules football. And it's in the very
Speaker 1: first page of the role of the umpire. Okay, And
Speaker 1: I know how much you've read the law book, huge
Speaker 1: fan cover to cover baby, and it talks about the
Speaker 1: role of the umpire and one of is there's sort
Speaker 1: of three key factors in particular, and one of them
Speaker 1: is to ensure that the game is played an affair
Speaker 1: and safe manner. Okay, So protection of the ball player
Speaker 1: is paramount. That is still the same. But the problem is,
Speaker 1: right that broadly across the competition. This doesn't relate to
Speaker 1: one player, right across the competition. And I'm going to
Speaker 1: bang bang bang any game you like, any club you like,
Speaker 1: I can show you examples the game and by extent
Speaker 1: talking about players are taken the PI double five with
Speaker 1: the laws of the game to induce free kick because
Speaker 1: as you know, set shot and goal inside forward fifty
Speaker 1: in particular. That's king. It's so hard, so you can
Speaker 1: get a free kick tick right, you buy farms, guys
Speaker 1: are take contestant market inside fifty by farms. Right, So
Speaker 1: I understand what drives that behavior. That's okay, right, But
Speaker 1: then the extension of it, if you pull back for
Speaker 1: a moment, is that factions and those behaviors are inducing
Speaker 1: the very thing that we're trying to minimize and remove.
Speaker 1: So at some point, so let's say when you're raising
Speaker 1: a child, or even for those without children, you got
Speaker 1: a dog and you're training the dog. Right, if you
Speaker 1: reward shitty behavior, what do you get? Same? You get
Speaker 1: more shitty behavior made right. So it's the same with
Speaker 1: this whole unpouring piece. Right, there's a carrot there being
Speaker 1: dangled out. You'll keep doing it. Got to remove it.
Speaker 1: So nah had a gupfull not happening anymore. Play actually
Speaker 1: win the football so that the people will get in
Speaker 1: these freeze. That's the first thing they're getting the ball first,
Speaker 1: tick the box right now, run carry handball kick what
Speaker 1: play not secure ball? Feign defender lower tilt, hook arm,
Speaker 1: look for high contact, no no, no, don't do that play.
Speaker 1: That's I think if we're trying to capture it, that's
Speaker 1: how I would articulate it. So it is to ensure
Speaker 1: that you can protect the players and what happens with you, guys,
Speaker 1: because you are brave to a point where you need
Speaker 1: protecting from yourselves. You're mad, You're bloody mad, right, and
Speaker 1: I've got the most incredible respect, Holy shit, but what
Speaker 1: do you do in son? Right? You need to be
Speaker 1: protected from yourselves at times, and this is one of
Speaker 1: those moments. And we've had it with contact below the knees, right,
Speaker 1: go back a few years. You'd slide in and like Rugby,
Speaker 1: clear the ruck. We'll knock them out. Teammate, come in, right,
Speaker 1: needed protecting from yourself. You rule, can't slide in feet
Speaker 1: and boots first, canniball behavior, right, you need protecting from yourselves.
Speaker 1: And I truly believe, and this is just my opinion.
Speaker 1: That's a in a nutshell. What's trying to be undertaken here.
Speaker 1: It's a tough thing to I guess, try to be
Speaker 1: correct on is very hard.
Speaker 3: I've never got a high tackle in my life, so
Speaker 3: by the worst person to ask to be honest but
Speaker 3: it is fair.
Speaker 1: There's a few weeks, there's a few key because someone's.
Speaker 3: Getting the high tackle. If it's me, you're getting a
Speaker 3: heart tagle. For someone else, they're jumping of of their standards.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it is such an interesting thing. It's great
Speaker 3: to hear your your side of it because I feel
Speaker 3: like you do articulate very well. I guess the We've
Speaker 3: talked about being the voice of the IFL and how
Speaker 3: to adjudicate rules, and it's it's not an easy thing
Speaker 3: to do. It's not an easy thing to do, but
Speaker 3: we'll move into it. I want to I want to
Speaker 3: pump up what you're doing right now because you've got
Speaker 3: so much going on outside of football. Now you've got
Speaker 3: your founder and director of the Chamberlain and Co Mortgage
Speaker 3: Broken Services.
Speaker 1: That's true. Yeah, so that's that's keeps me off the
Speaker 1: main streets because every armpire has got a side gig. Yeah,
Speaker 1: well we all, we all are either studying or working.
Speaker 1: And you've started your own company, which is pretty cool. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I saw that was that that's eighteen years now
Speaker 1: and I've been undertaking this and got a really awesome team.
Speaker 1: So I get in their way. The more i'm away,
Speaker 1: the better they go. So my job is really to
Speaker 1: resource them effectively and then allow them to be the
Speaker 1: best they can be. So I got a great team there.
Speaker 1: And the thing I like about it is you get
Speaker 1: to advocate for people. So like we write, we look
Speaker 1: at budget and how many lanes we've got to write
Speaker 1: and what our volume's got to be and what that
Speaker 1: equals and really sort of just clunky ears with running business, right,
Speaker 1: But what you're doing is like this person's able to
Speaker 1: take their kids to Disneyland, or this lady is able
Speaker 1: to buy her daughter her first car, or there's always
Speaker 1: that under all of these things. I love those stories
Speaker 1: and I love helping people obtain that reach their goals.
Speaker 1: It's so cool, right, So that's the thing that actually
Speaker 1: gets me fired up Monday through Friday with that Yeah.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and you shout out to the website.
Speaker 1: Yeah we'll get no, no, no, that's fine. It's a Chamberlain
Speaker 1: and Co. Dot com. Get on it and yeah, reach
Speaker 1: out and they can help you out with everything you
Speaker 1: possibly Well, you won't speak to me, Its chill out,
Speaker 1: all right, it won't get to me. There's a frontline there.
Speaker 1: I don't see that it gets it gets filtered before
Speaker 1: it gets to make money. That's so good.
Speaker 3: And the other thing you're doing Chamberlain Foundation, Now I
Speaker 3: love this because this is something that you're passionate about.
Speaker 1: I've known you've done this for a while.
Speaker 3: And it raises funds to revide support for suicide prevention
Speaker 3: and mental health awareness. Now can you speak a bit
Speaker 3: to that, because I feel like that's something that in
Speaker 3: today's society is so so so important.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so this this goes back six years now. And
Speaker 1: I remember, so I grew up in Canberra with my
Speaker 1: brothers and they still reside in Canberra, and they've got
Speaker 1: families and businesses and jobs and all that sort of stuff.
Speaker 1: And I would ring them and and it'd be have
Speaker 1: you have you spoken to mom this week? Who's paying
Speaker 1: for Christmas? That kind of game? And that was okay
Speaker 1: when I first left home, but it got to a
Speaker 1: point was like, hey, mate, who are you again? What
Speaker 1: have you got?
Speaker 5: That?
Speaker 1: Role? Right? So I thought I wouldn't it be cool
Speaker 1: if we all did something there was a bit challenging
Speaker 1: and fun together And the boys went, no, that's as actually,
Speaker 1: let's do that. And then life gets busy and I
Speaker 1: was driving home one night down the Pena Highway and
Speaker 1: I was getting towards Southland and the phone rang. It
Speaker 1: was my brother, and I started giving him a bit
Speaker 1: of stick, you know, as you do, and then I
Speaker 1: realized he was actually quite upset, and he was emotional
Speaker 1: and he said, he said, Robbie took his own life.
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking he was referencing my cousin and
Speaker 1: my best mate and my best man. But that's rob
Speaker 1: and he said Robbie. So he was talking about his
Speaker 1: best mate. And so now I'm feeling better, which was weird. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And Robbie left behind two young kids and a whole
Speaker 1: range of stuff. Now it's not we're not special, Sadly, sadly,
Speaker 1: we're not special, like you know, this is this is
Speaker 1: out there. Everyone's got a story around this, which is
Speaker 1: kind of the point. But if nothing else, Robbie is passing.
Speaker 1: Put a rocket up us and it gave us a purpose.
Speaker 1: So that really narrowed our our scope in what we're
Speaker 1: going to do. And so we created our foundation and
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's legit. No one and by the way,
Speaker 1: everyone who runs it is a volunteer. No one takes
Speaker 1: into that out of it fully like deductible gift recipient
Speaker 1: ordered the whole bag. So that's super good. And we've
Speaker 1: been able to you know, raise and then move on
Speaker 1: nearly four hundred grand, which is good right that we
Speaker 1: feel great about it, right, And we get to fund
Speaker 1: programs that support and where we like to really channel
Speaker 1: into our return servicemen and women and our first responders.
Speaker 1: Whenever things go to the ship, we're looking at them, right,
Speaker 1: and yet I feel yeah, and I feel like they're
Speaker 1: probably not as rewarded or as supported as they really
Speaker 1: deserve to be. So our most recent donation was to
Speaker 1: the Police Association of Victoria, which was all around stuff
Speaker 1: pertaining to PTSD resources and training for their graduates. So
Speaker 1: that's really cool. But that's what we do. So we
Speaker 1: run events, we do things. Our first event was Boots
Speaker 1: in the Water in Burmaghuwey which is on the New
Speaker 1: Southwest South Coast, I know, you know the Burma guy,
Speaker 1: well mate, and then hike hike to the top of
Speaker 1: me Posiosco. Oh yeah. So those are the sorts of
Speaker 1: things we do. These we do these bike tours, we
Speaker 1: have luncheons and all that sort of stuff. So that's
Speaker 1: what we do, and we've got my brothers and we've
Speaker 1: got two sisters who have formed the board for the
Speaker 1: most part of the time. People have come and gone,
Speaker 1: like we get accountant and all that type of stuff
Speaker 1: that resent and assist. But really, the the legends are
Speaker 1: actually like our tribe, the kind of lunch every year
Speaker 1: and participate and like they're the ones who drive it,
Speaker 1: and they're the reason why we're able to donate the
Speaker 1: money that we do and do the things that we do.
Speaker 1: So they're the ones who make it cool.
Speaker 3: Yeah, to get you linked up with the charity I
Speaker 3: do call life Changer. Okay, life change, I'm telling you,
Speaker 3: and check them out. But that's awesome. Seriously, Now, I
Speaker 3: love the people that look beyond themselves.
Speaker 1: Look beyond. It's it's a classic kind of quote.
Speaker 3: I'm probably gona butcher this, but it's plant the seeds
Speaker 3: for trees, for trees you'll never never sit in the
Speaker 3: shade of correct And it's such just.
Speaker 2: That.
Speaker 1: But that was the moment. But no, it's so true that.
Speaker 3: People that have the mindset to be able to look
Speaker 3: past their lifetime, to be able to to create a
Speaker 3: better future for someone else down the road and to
Speaker 3: help people out that are outside of their inner circle.
Speaker 3: It's a it's a credit to you, mate, it's an
Speaker 3: absolute credit to you.
Speaker 1: Well, now, thank you. It helped me though, if I'm
Speaker 1: really honest, you know, like so, I I'd love on point.
Speaker 1: I love footy, but I had it. I had a
Speaker 1: tough time myself with just dealing with all this sort
Speaker 1: of media staff and whatever, which I embraced now. I'm like, right,
Speaker 1: you can't take the cord the water, right, I'm into this.
Speaker 1: There's no way I can dampen it or whatever. But
Speaker 1: I didn't. I actually tried not to be part of
Speaker 1: any of it. And I remember being I'm not going
Speaker 1: to say bullied, because that's the wrong word, but I
Speaker 1: was strongly encouraged. Okay, right, just pushed the dress right
Speaker 1: to do an interview with Triple M and they were
Speaker 1: really cool to me. Okay they were and BT and
Speaker 1: James Brayshaw and carry lyon and all that. Demail on that,
Speaker 1: and I dropped a silly line that they found humorous,
Speaker 1: and I suggested that potentially the Dingo had taken the
Speaker 1: wrong chamberlain. Right, so I don't know with you, so
Speaker 1: and so then they were wosh and that was in
Speaker 1: two two thousand and seven, right, And so then that
Speaker 1: all and that all this rais of stuff had been happening.
Speaker 1: And anyway, I got injured and I had to have
Speaker 1: surgery and they and it didn't go great. And so
Speaker 1: then I reinjured. I put my kneecup in half in
Speaker 1: a game Collingwood Cartlein mcg and so I was like, okay,
Speaker 1: you're cooked, and away again I lose his corner. Right,
Speaker 1: So I took the family where Jeff Geieshon was our boss.
Speaker 1: He goes, listen, get out of the country, going go
Speaker 1: somewhere war, which was so kind of Jeff. Right, he's
Speaker 1: a ripping human being. He really cares. He's such a
Speaker 1: nice man. And so we went to Hawaii because I
Speaker 1: was the only place you'd gather. It was a bank,
Speaker 1: drop of a hat and we loved it. And I
Speaker 1: read this book Robbie McEwen. I got told read this book.
Speaker 1: It's a great autobiograph. I'm going mate, it's about a
Speaker 1: dude in like on a bike. Like how exciting can
Speaker 1: it be? Such a good read? Right? And in it
Speaker 1: he had a pateell a tendernopathy injury that rocked his career.
Speaker 1: His was a little more dramatic than mine. Came around
Speaker 1: a blind corner and smashed his knee into a concrete pylon. Right.
Speaker 1: And what smacked me in my fat head Mason, was
Speaker 1: that this book, this autobiography, his challenge, his injury challenge.
Speaker 1: It was one chapter, small bar of his whole fucking book, mate, Right.
Speaker 1: And so what I realized was like, Man, I can
Speaker 1: sit here and sook the house down, or I can
Speaker 1: just write this chapter out actually and write it as
Speaker 1: best I can. So I just threw myself into being
Speaker 1: the best rehabit that ever dreary breath. Right. So i'ven
Speaker 1: one hundred and fifty games since then. I was told
Speaker 1: I was cooked, so I had to change a lot
Speaker 1: of stuff and whatever. But what it did was I
Speaker 1: went this whole raiser thing that I don't understand and
Speaker 1: I get angry about because people are saying stuff about
Speaker 1: me and I don't have a platform to talk back
Speaker 1: or at least provide my view of it, which didn't
Speaker 1: sit well with my personality. Right. And so the problem
Speaker 1: was me. I knew that I wasn't handling it well.
Speaker 1: I had to grow up and I had to become
Speaker 1: more evolved and smarter and all that sort of shit.
Speaker 1: This foundation, I went, if I get back and all
Speaker 1: this brew hahas existing, I'm going to use it for
Speaker 1: something good like that, so that I don't. I'm really
Speaker 1: lucky that I've got that avenue, Like it keeps me
Speaker 1: motivated and I get more out of it. I reckon
Speaker 1: that I put in what I'm trying to say, And yeah,
Speaker 1: so it's cool and we love it, and it's good
Speaker 1: for our family, you know, the boys like it keeps
Speaker 1: us something and we've met this beautiful these two sisters
Speaker 1: who are just in legends and they sort of umpire
Speaker 1: between us and stop us blowing each other and that.
Speaker 1: So it's good.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's good. Oh that's awesome. Man, It's it's cool,
Speaker 3: like it's to have. It actually is like something your
Speaker 3: whole family does too. Is quite unique. I feel like
Speaker 3: everyone says, don't go into business with your family, but
Speaker 3: I'm sure you've probably got stories right The Weekly Weekly
Speaker 3: love that. Well, do you want to give a shadow
Speaker 3: I guess to where you can donate for the foundation?
Speaker 1: Yes? I know you also do a motivation motivational speaking.
Speaker 1: Is that great? Yeah? I know that's that's good fun. Actually,
Speaker 1: I love getting out to commut like particularly like we
Speaker 1: do like corporate stuff and all that, and that's good fun.
Speaker 1: And you meet lots of people and it's always big
Speaker 1: events and that's good fun. But the ones that are
Speaker 1: really cool, like you know, I was at a chooker
Speaker 1: your chew cut the other week, right, our producers from
Speaker 1: a cheer gul God's country stories from a chew gu Yeah,
Speaker 1: I bet and and I've got gotta go there. It
Speaker 1: was brilliant, the best couple of days. It was so
Speaker 1: much fun. Met some legends up there, and you know,
Speaker 1: you get immersed in local football and nipall clubs, right,
Speaker 1: and you just takes me back to again. You're gonna
Speaker 1: you're never going to forget this place, the Tagnong Valley
Speaker 1: where I grew up and playing for the Tugerong Lions,
Speaker 1: and you know, just it's just all of that again
Speaker 1: and you go, you remember why you love the game.
Speaker 1: Actually I love those sorts of things. But yeah, Chamberlain
Speaker 1: Foundation dot org is where you can go to and
Speaker 1: find the donate. So yeah, we're it's on a big
Speaker 1: build at the moment, we're on it. That's actually the
Speaker 1: task that it's twenty twenty two is the creation of
Speaker 1: our online platform. So we've generated we've got a corporate
Speaker 1: partner who's helping fund that. So we're in the build there.
Speaker 1: But yeah, Chamberlain Foundation dot org and you can find us.
Speaker 1: We donate now and as I said, totally tax deductible. Huge.
Speaker 1: You get your receipt and all that sort of gear.
Speaker 1: And the money goes too directly to our partners. And
Speaker 1: so we've had the Police Association of Victoria, are you okay,
Speaker 1: Lifeline and grief Line. There've been our beneficiaries and yeah,
Speaker 1: they're all really really reputable and brilliant organizations that are
Speaker 1: making a difference in people's lives. Yeah, which is really cool.
Speaker 1: That's awesome, man. Well, thank you, thank you, thank you
Speaker 1: for doing that, and thank you for coming on the
Speaker 1: pod mate. It is so good to chat to you.
Speaker 3: Man. Like there's so many different facets of your life.
Speaker 3: I feel like they're so fascinating that I could. I mean,
Speaker 3: we'll go to the USA at the end of the year.
Speaker 3: We're going to go to the USI fell together in California, California,
Speaker 3: big fan of LA.
Speaker 1: Here we come. The boys are back. The Boys, They're back,
Speaker 1: we'll find a couple of just find it fun, a.
Speaker 3: Couple on the back end, we'll find that I'm sure
Speaker 3: a few frothies for the first season. But honestly, thanks
Speaker 3: so much for coming on, mate. I love your story.
Speaker 3: I love the way you look at life. I love
Speaker 3: your personality and the uniqueness of what you go about
Speaker 3: and do them. It is so so cool to see
Speaker 3: someone charismatically be themselves no matter what, and hearing some
Speaker 3: more about your charity and your foundation and everything else
Speaker 3: is just It adds to the story of the human
Speaker 3: you are, mate, and it's it's a credit to you
Speaker 3: for what you do and the way you go about it.
Speaker 3: So massive. Thank you for coming on, mate, and can't
Speaker 3: wait to see you running aund again. Hopefully you get
Speaker 3: out of the injury and back out there.
Speaker 1: Twenty twenty three, good lucke for the rest of you, Mate,
Speaker 1: You guys are flying and bringing joy to a lot
Speaker 1: of people. And thanks for the opportunity.
Speaker 3: Man.
Speaker 1: Now, thank you stand an expand stand surce