1 00:00:05,960 --> 00:00:09,240 Speaker 1: We're having a conversation about consent for a couple of reasons. 2 00:00:10,160 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 1: Number one, the Australian Government's campaign Consent Can't Wait is 3 00:00:15,240 --> 00:00:17,239 Speaker 1: out and about. You can find the website which we 4 00:00:17,280 --> 00:00:20,920 Speaker 1: will link to in the show notes literally Consent dot Au. 5 00:00:21,120 --> 00:00:24,200 Speaker 1: I'm an ambassador for the Consent Can't Wait campaign and 6 00:00:24,239 --> 00:00:26,200 Speaker 1: have recorded a whole bunch of commercials that you've seeing 7 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:29,200 Speaker 1: around the place, Consent Can't Wait. It's a really important conversation. 8 00:00:29,640 --> 00:00:33,120 Speaker 1: Most people agree that consent is key to healthy sexual experiences, 9 00:00:33,159 --> 00:00:36,400 Speaker 1: but a lot of people struggle to understand what consent means. 10 00:00:36,440 --> 00:00:39,040 Speaker 1: I know, we think we know what's going on, but 11 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,279 Speaker 1: there's much more to consent than what most people know. 12 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,600 Speaker 1: So today a conversation about the nuances of consent and 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: specifically how we can raise these important issues with our children, 14 00:00:50,360 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: with the kids and teenagers in our lives. And we're 15 00:00:53,040 --> 00:00:55,080 Speaker 1: going to go through a stage by stage, Kylie, so 16 00:00:55,200 --> 00:00:58,000 Speaker 1: you guide us from stage to stage and I'll add 17 00:00:58,040 --> 00:01:00,760 Speaker 1: the main ideas, and I'm sure you'll have plenty to 18 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:02,440 Speaker 1: say because you've helped me to raise them. In fact, 19 00:01:02,520 --> 00:01:05,280 Speaker 1: primarily you've raised our six daughters. What do you want 20 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:06,400 Speaker 1: to start? I guess at the beginning. 21 00:01:06,600 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 2: Well, let's start with zero to five. This is, in 22 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,240 Speaker 2: my mind, this is a little bit of a gray 23 00:01:14,440 --> 00:01:17,040 Speaker 2: area when it comes to consent. 24 00:01:18,319 --> 00:01:19,360 Speaker 1: What do you mean by gray area? 25 00:01:19,640 --> 00:01:23,920 Speaker 2: I think that there is definitely a wide perception that 26 00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:27,720 Speaker 2: as young children that it's okay to kiss and cuddle 27 00:01:27,760 --> 00:01:30,360 Speaker 2: and all of those things because they're gorgeous, right, pinch 28 00:01:30,400 --> 00:01:30,960 Speaker 2: their cheeks. 29 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, not just that, But if you listen to the 30 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:37,120 Speaker 1: old folks talk back radio, what you'll often hear is 31 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 1: people getting upset when conversations around this come up. They're like, 32 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:42,039 Speaker 1: they're my grandkids. I'll kiss them and cudle them if 33 00:01:42,080 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 1: I want. Yeah, So I guess the easiest way that 34 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,880 Speaker 1: I would talk about this is consent starts at the 35 00:01:47,880 --> 00:01:51,120 Speaker 1: beginning with conversations around body safety and what consent is 36 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,200 Speaker 1: and boundaries. The other one that always gets people upset 37 00:01:54,240 --> 00:01:56,559 Speaker 1: is the whole nappy changing thing, or the tickling kids 38 00:01:56,600 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 1: or rough housing with kids, that sort of thing. So 39 00:01:58,520 --> 00:02:00,440 Speaker 1: let's go through each of those. First off, I want 40 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,920 Speaker 1: to start with tickling and rough housing because this one 41 00:02:02,960 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: really gets people up in arms. If the kids are 42 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:10,200 Speaker 1: saying stop or don't, then just say okay and stop. 43 00:02:10,480 --> 00:02:13,160 Speaker 1: And what happens, of course, is that the children about 44 00:02:13,160 --> 00:02:15,399 Speaker 1: three seconds later, as long as the tickling and rough 45 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,959 Speaker 1: housing was appropriate, about half a second latter, to say 46 00:02:18,960 --> 00:02:21,880 Speaker 1: again again again, like they love it, but sometimes it's 47 00:02:21,919 --> 00:02:23,960 Speaker 1: just too much. And when we let them know that 48 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,760 Speaker 1: if they ask us to stop, that we will stop. 49 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: We're literally teaching them that their voice matters, that they 50 00:02:29,600 --> 00:02:32,600 Speaker 1: have agency, they have power, and they can choose for 51 00:02:32,639 --> 00:02:35,440 Speaker 1: themselves what activities they're involved in and what activities they're 52 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:37,680 Speaker 1: not involved in. That's the whole idea of teaching consents 53 00:02:37,760 --> 00:02:40,800 Speaker 1: children aged zero to five. It's not that you're the 54 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:43,120 Speaker 1: same with changing an happy, right, the idea that you're supposed 55 00:02:43,160 --> 00:02:45,480 Speaker 1: to ask your child if you can change their happy 56 00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:48,840 Speaker 1: I don't think that that's useful, especially if your child 57 00:02:48,880 --> 00:02:50,040 Speaker 1: is pre verbal. 58 00:02:50,160 --> 00:02:52,359 Speaker 2: I was about to say three months, six months. 59 00:02:52,040 --> 00:02:53,640 Speaker 1: That's right. But what you can do is you can 60 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:55,160 Speaker 1: describe what you're doing and why you're doing it and 61 00:02:55,160 --> 00:02:57,400 Speaker 1: help them to understand that. It's the same with bathtime. Right, 62 00:02:57,919 --> 00:03:00,919 Speaker 1: Even before consent became a major issue, you I always 63 00:03:00,919 --> 00:03:03,880 Speaker 1: said to the kids, because I used to love bath time, 64 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,040 Speaker 1: and I used toll love bathing the kids. I loved scrubbing 65 00:03:06,080 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: them with the I was going to say the scourer, 66 00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:12,400 Speaker 1: that's with the loofer. Sorry, love the loof of their 67 00:03:12,400 --> 00:03:13,720 Speaker 1: back and all that sort of thing. But when it 68 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: came to their private parts, I'd always say, do you 69 00:03:16,120 --> 00:03:17,560 Speaker 1: want to wash the private parts or do you want 70 00:03:17,560 --> 00:03:19,840 Speaker 1: me to and give them the opportunity to have a 71 00:03:19,919 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: voice and have a choice from the age of like 72 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,120 Speaker 1: two or three or whatever it was. Well, because I'm 73 00:03:25,120 --> 00:03:27,000 Speaker 1: their dad and I just don't feel like i'm even 74 00:03:27,040 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 1: though it's appropriate that they be washed there, I think 75 00:03:29,680 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: I always thought they needed to have a voice. And 76 00:03:31,720 --> 00:03:32,880 Speaker 1: that's the idea of this. 77 00:03:33,240 --> 00:03:35,320 Speaker 2: You think we can take it to the extreme, Yeah. 78 00:03:35,160 --> 00:03:37,080 Speaker 1: I do. I do, And I think that's why when 79 00:03:37,120 --> 00:03:38,920 Speaker 1: people do take it to extremes. I think that's why 80 00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,200 Speaker 1: the talk back radio lines light up and all the 81 00:03:41,240 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: grandparents get on and say this is ridiculous and what's 82 00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:46,040 Speaker 1: the world coming to? And back in my day, that's 83 00:03:46,040 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 1: where it becomes unhelpful. But when we have a really 84 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:50,200 Speaker 1: sensible approach to it, and that is I'm going to 85 00:03:50,240 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: explain to my child what's going on, or to the 86 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:54,600 Speaker 1: extent that they can choose, I'm going to give them 87 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:57,000 Speaker 1: every opportunity to use their voice, and I'll honor that. 88 00:03:58,200 --> 00:03:59,840 Speaker 1: It's the same with hugging and kissing. This came up 89 00:03:59,880 --> 00:04:03,120 Speaker 1: with your parents just recently with our youngest who is 90 00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:07,280 Speaker 1: now ten, and she just said, I love hugs. I 91 00:04:07,320 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 1: love hugging man like she was really she was so 92 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,800 Speaker 1: enthusiastic about it. She was so excited about it. But 93 00:04:13,920 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 1: your mum, and I'm really impressed by this. Your mum 94 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:18,039 Speaker 1: has started saying, is it okay if I give you 95 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,320 Speaker 1: a hug? Like she started asking, And it's not hard 96 00:04:21,400 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: to do it. When you look at your grandkids and 97 00:04:22,880 --> 00:04:24,600 Speaker 1: you say would you like a hug and they come 98 00:04:24,720 --> 00:04:26,680 Speaker 1: running into your arms, you get a pretty clear signal 99 00:04:26,680 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 1: that they're okay with a hug. And that's the idea 100 00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:31,080 Speaker 1: of consent. It's about letting kids know that they have 101 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,400 Speaker 1: a voice and that their preferences matter, they should be considered. 102 00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: I actually think that it's the height, the height of arrogance, 103 00:04:39,600 --> 00:04:42,800 Speaker 1: the height of rudeness, and the height of entitlement when 104 00:04:42,839 --> 00:04:44,760 Speaker 1: a grandparent says, I don't care if you want a 105 00:04:44,800 --> 00:04:47,839 Speaker 1: hug or not. You're giving me a hug, like that's 106 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:50,720 Speaker 1: inappropriate and I'm not trying to sound like a wowsy here. 107 00:04:50,920 --> 00:04:54,479 Speaker 1: Just by every measure of what consent is about, that's 108 00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:57,040 Speaker 1: simply inappropriate. And so the people who are doing this 109 00:04:57,120 --> 00:04:59,919 Speaker 1: on the talkback radio stations and getting upset about it, 110 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,400 Speaker 1: if they just pause and consider how they feel if 111 00:05:02,440 --> 00:05:06,760 Speaker 1: someone puts their arms around them without consent. It feels 112 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:08,760 Speaker 1: pretty icky, it feels pretty gross. 113 00:05:09,640 --> 00:05:13,080 Speaker 2: I know growing up it wasn't just me and my family, 114 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:16,400 Speaker 2: but I was raised in a be respectful of adults, 115 00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 2: and everyone in our circles was deemed family. If they 116 00:05:21,240 --> 00:05:23,320 Speaker 2: were close friends, they were an auntie or an uncle 117 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 2: because that was a respectful way to talk to them 118 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:27,880 Speaker 2: and acknowledge them. 119 00:05:27,920 --> 00:05:30,120 Speaker 1: A lot of that comes from that kin based traditional 120 00:05:30,839 --> 00:05:34,360 Speaker 1: New Zealand Maori heritage, right, I mean, that's the way 121 00:05:34,520 --> 00:05:36,840 Speaker 1: family is. Everyone is an auntie or an uncle or 122 00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,640 Speaker 1: a cousin, and let's face it, they probably are, and 123 00:05:40,680 --> 00:05:43,560 Speaker 1: when you see them, you're supposed to embrace them and 124 00:05:43,680 --> 00:05:46,960 Speaker 1: kiss them and do all of those traditional things. That's 125 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:48,920 Speaker 1: how it always has been. 126 00:05:49,320 --> 00:05:51,479 Speaker 2: But the challenge for me as a young child was 127 00:05:51,520 --> 00:05:55,440 Speaker 2: most of those people I'd never seen before or I 128 00:05:55,480 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 2: see once a year, And so the idea of bringing 129 00:05:58,200 --> 00:06:01,159 Speaker 2: them into my personal space. Even as a five year old, 130 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,880 Speaker 2: it felt wrong, like it didn't really confront h. I 131 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:07,280 Speaker 2: didn't feel comfortable. I didn't. You're not my mom, you're 132 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 2: not my dad, You're not someone I trust. This is 133 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:13,960 Speaker 2: a really tricky space. So for us, as we've raised 134 00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:16,600 Speaker 2: our children, it has always been an acknowledgement no one 135 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:18,840 Speaker 2: is an auntie and uncle unless they're an auntie or 136 00:06:18,920 --> 00:06:22,560 Speaker 2: uncle for starters. But they've never been forced in any way, 137 00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: shape or form to acknowledge them with a hugener kiss 138 00:06:25,320 --> 00:06:28,520 Speaker 2: if it's not what they want to do. So if 139 00:06:28,520 --> 00:06:31,400 Speaker 2: we move forward from our zero to five, we're looking 140 00:06:31,440 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 2: at six to maybe thirteen to our early teens. 141 00:06:34,920 --> 00:06:37,640 Speaker 1: Yeah, primary school, primary school age kids, So this is 142 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:40,080 Speaker 1: where the consent. I mean, you'll know that with young kids, 143 00:06:40,120 --> 00:06:43,680 Speaker 1: we're not having conversations about consent and intimacy. Yeah, we're 144 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:46,479 Speaker 1: simply teaching respect and body bound reason. If someone says no, 145 00:06:46,560 --> 00:06:48,719 Speaker 1: it means no, and that kind of thing. It's really 146 00:06:48,720 --> 00:06:51,719 Speaker 1: basic stuff. I don't think there's anything controversial or provocative 147 00:06:51,720 --> 00:06:53,880 Speaker 1: about this. Again, I don't understand why people get that 148 00:06:54,000 --> 00:06:56,600 Speaker 1: upset about it. In terms of primary school, the conversation 149 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,120 Speaker 1: shifts a little bit, primarily because social networks expand, our 150 00:07:00,160 --> 00:07:04,120 Speaker 1: kids are they're going to know more people. But there's 151 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:07,960 Speaker 1: also the possibility that's going to be conflict. But I 152 00:07:08,000 --> 00:07:09,880 Speaker 1: want to do this, my friend wants to do that, 153 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: and we've got this conflict here, and consent becomes more 154 00:07:13,520 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: about social relationships and activity based conversations and that kind 155 00:07:18,960 --> 00:07:22,760 Speaker 1: of thing, healthy friendships and how to just engage respectfully 156 00:07:22,840 --> 00:07:26,240 Speaker 1: with other people. I think at this point we can 157 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:29,080 Speaker 1: start to teach our kids about verbal and nonverbal communication. 158 00:07:29,280 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 1: This is a really powerful way to help kids to 159 00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 1: communicate consent. I like this, I don't like this. Body 160 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:38,560 Speaker 1: language gives us that insight into how someone's feeling, and 161 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: if we can help kids to tune into what other 162 00:07:40,600 --> 00:07:44,480 Speaker 1: people are showing, that can be really profoundly useful. I 163 00:07:44,480 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: remember speaking with a colleague of mine some years ago 164 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:49,720 Speaker 1: who said that when she was about fifteen or sixteen, 165 00:07:50,200 --> 00:07:51,640 Speaker 1: she was on a bus. She was the only person 166 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: on the bus, and a guy got on who was 167 00:07:55,000 --> 00:08:00,360 Speaker 1: probably a young adult, and saw her sitting there, just 168 00:08:00,600 --> 00:08:02,320 Speaker 1: a girl on her own on the bus, and literally 169 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,440 Speaker 1: went and sat on the seat beside her, which is 170 00:08:05,840 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: such a such a power. 171 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,040 Speaker 2: I was about to say that, big power play. 172 00:08:09,960 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 1: Big power play. But if we have the capacity to 173 00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,119 Speaker 1: read other people's body language, like she shrank, she moved 174 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: as close to the window as she could. I mean, 175 00:08:20,200 --> 00:08:23,000 Speaker 1: and he sort of what is it when a man. 176 00:08:22,960 --> 00:08:25,680 Speaker 2: Spread He clearly he clearly didn't care. 177 00:08:25,600 --> 00:08:28,160 Speaker 1: What she totally totally. But the idea is if we 178 00:08:28,200 --> 00:08:31,160 Speaker 1: can teach people to read one another better and have 179 00:08:31,240 --> 00:08:33,640 Speaker 1: some empathy around that, not just the skill of reading 180 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:37,440 Speaker 1: other people, but the empathy that accompanies that, then we 181 00:08:37,520 --> 00:08:40,960 Speaker 1: can help them to understand the nonverbal elements of consent 182 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:43,720 Speaker 1: as well. Oh, this person's stiffening up, this person's moving away, 183 00:08:43,760 --> 00:08:47,200 Speaker 1: this person's not making eye contact, this person's looking worried. 184 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:49,880 Speaker 2: This person and voice is saying yes, but everything about 185 00:08:49,920 --> 00:08:50,920 Speaker 2: their body is screaming no. 186 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 1: Right, And I think that's really what we're looking at here. 187 00:08:53,800 --> 00:08:57,680 Speaker 1: How can we communicate boundaries effectively? Teaching kids to develop 188 00:08:57,720 --> 00:09:00,400 Speaker 1: their identity, to develop a voice, to be willing to 189 00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:02,960 Speaker 1: say no, to think critically about what they see online, 190 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:07,559 Speaker 1: to think about who they're talking to, and to engage respectfully. 191 00:09:07,559 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: That that's for me, the primary school age sort of stuff. 192 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:13,600 Speaker 2: So this is a really tricky space. This idea of 193 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:16,199 Speaker 2: giving our children a voice. For a lot of parents, 194 00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,240 Speaker 2: we just want compliance, right, We want them to do 195 00:09:19,480 --> 00:09:21,080 Speaker 2: what we ask when we ask them to do it, 196 00:09:21,120 --> 00:09:23,600 Speaker 2: because that makes our life easy. And I know that 197 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:26,040 Speaker 2: that was the kind of home I was raised in. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 198 00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:30,240 Speaker 2: So when our children reach school age and they started 199 00:09:30,400 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 2: having opinions about things, my parents really were taken back 200 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,040 Speaker 2: by that. Are you going to stamp that as because 201 00:09:38,080 --> 00:09:41,840 Speaker 2: that's not how I was raised? And yes, it causes 202 00:09:42,000 --> 00:09:45,720 Speaker 2: some conflict and contention in your home as you try 203 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,040 Speaker 2: to navigate the challenge of your children having a voice 204 00:09:49,040 --> 00:09:50,840 Speaker 2: and telling you they don't want to do something you 205 00:09:51,000 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 2: clearly know number one is good for them and number 206 00:09:53,160 --> 00:09:54,720 Speaker 2: two needs to be done in order for the family 207 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,920 Speaker 2: to function whatever it is. But I think there is 208 00:09:58,160 --> 00:10:01,960 Speaker 2: so much power. Think about just that friend of yours 209 00:10:01,960 --> 00:10:04,000 Speaker 2: and being on the bus. What a difference it would 210 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:05,960 Speaker 2: have made to her if she knew that she was 211 00:10:06,040 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 2: well within her rights to either ask him to move 212 00:10:08,600 --> 00:10:09,960 Speaker 2: or to stand up. 213 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:11,920 Speaker 1: Stand up away, Yeah, go sit right next to the 214 00:10:11,920 --> 00:10:13,040 Speaker 1: bus driver, that kind of thing. 215 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:16,439 Speaker 2: And so for me, as a mum of girls, that's 216 00:10:16,520 --> 00:10:19,440 Speaker 2: what I'm trying to achieve. I'm trying to help my 217 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,600 Speaker 2: girls recognize and know that their voice matters number one 218 00:10:22,920 --> 00:10:26,600 Speaker 2: and number two. If they have absolute clarity on who 219 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:29,079 Speaker 2: they are and who they want to be, then they 220 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:32,520 Speaker 2: will have confidence in their ability to speak that when 221 00:10:32,720 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 2: the time comes. 222 00:10:41,160 --> 00:10:42,640 Speaker 1: So that's a pretty good segue to move into the 223 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: adolescence and secondary school age group. Let's talk about teenagers. 224 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,840 Speaker 1: I've spoken just too many girls. I've spoken to too 225 00:10:50,880 --> 00:10:53,720 Speaker 1: many girls who have told me that they've acquiesced that 226 00:10:53,720 --> 00:10:56,439 Speaker 1: they've gone long when a boy that they've been with 227 00:10:56,559 --> 00:10:59,199 Speaker 1: has put pressure on them to engage in any kind 228 00:10:59,240 --> 00:11:01,960 Speaker 1: of intimacy because they felt like they had to. They 229 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,280 Speaker 1: felt like they couldn't say no. They felt like this 230 00:11:04,440 --> 00:11:06,200 Speaker 1: was how they proved that they loved him. 231 00:11:06,679 --> 00:11:09,360 Speaker 2: The devastation in this though, is the girls walk away 232 00:11:09,360 --> 00:11:10,040 Speaker 2: feeling guilty. 233 00:11:10,240 --> 00:11:12,120 Speaker 1: Yeahs, the girls are the ones that walk away and 234 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,199 Speaker 1: they feel like they're dirty or unworthy or that. 235 00:11:15,320 --> 00:11:17,640 Speaker 2: Or I said yes, so therefore I deserved what I 236 00:11:17,720 --> 00:11:21,000 Speaker 2: got right right. It's a devastating place to be. 237 00:11:21,320 --> 00:11:24,360 Speaker 1: So if we transition into these adolescent years, we start 238 00:11:24,400 --> 00:11:28,040 Speaker 1: to talk about romantic relationships. This is I think this 239 00:11:28,120 --> 00:11:31,040 Speaker 1: is the most important zone. But it works best if 240 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:33,559 Speaker 1: we've built a foundation where kids already know that their 241 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:37,840 Speaker 1: voice matters and that they're allowed to say no critical 242 00:11:37,880 --> 00:11:42,040 Speaker 1: things here around consent number one, you can say yes 243 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: and then change your mind. If you withdraw consent, then 244 00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:50,280 Speaker 1: there is no consent. Consent is gone. And these are 245 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:51,760 Speaker 1: the things that we've got to talk about kids about. 246 00:11:51,760 --> 00:11:53,400 Speaker 1: We've got to talk to them about how if there's 247 00:11:53,440 --> 00:11:56,040 Speaker 1: any alcohol or other drugs involved and therefore or that 248 00:11:56,120 --> 00:11:58,840 Speaker 1: any kind of impairment, or a person doesn't have the capacity, 249 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,360 Speaker 1: then they can't and sand if they don't have the maturity, 250 00:12:03,679 --> 00:12:07,880 Speaker 1: if they're not old enough, they can't consent. Navigating consent 251 00:12:08,280 --> 00:12:12,600 Speaker 1: is sometimes just so much more complicated than do I 252 00:12:12,640 --> 00:12:16,360 Speaker 1: have permission? In fact permission. The example that I use 253 00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:18,679 Speaker 1: here when I'm talking to parents about this stuff is 254 00:12:19,120 --> 00:12:21,120 Speaker 1: the kids now and then we'll come to me and say, hey, Dad, 255 00:12:21,160 --> 00:12:23,320 Speaker 1: can I have fifty dollars so that I can go 256 00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:26,079 Speaker 1: and watch a movie and get some grilled at burger 257 00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:30,439 Speaker 1: and some chips. And I don't want to give the 258 00:12:30,480 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 1: kids fifty bucks, like that's a really expensive night out, 259 00:12:33,960 --> 00:12:35,599 Speaker 1: but that's how much it costs for a burger and 260 00:12:35,679 --> 00:12:38,800 Speaker 1: chips and a movie at the local cinema. But eventually 261 00:12:38,880 --> 00:12:42,640 Speaker 1: I roll my eyes and say, sure, take the fifty bucks. Now. 262 00:12:42,720 --> 00:12:46,319 Speaker 1: Is that consent? Really? Like, it's a pretty low bar. 263 00:12:46,960 --> 00:12:50,520 Speaker 1: And so when I and we probably need to talk 264 00:12:50,559 --> 00:12:53,560 Speaker 1: about kids again about this becau's been a while. These 265 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:58,400 Speaker 1: are not one and done conversations. But if the person 266 00:12:58,559 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: that you're with is not going to be excited about 267 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:05,280 Speaker 1: what happened tomorrow, then I think that's not consent. I 268 00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:07,439 Speaker 1: like drawing two circles of end diagram, you know where 269 00:13:07,440 --> 00:13:10,719 Speaker 1: they're two overlapping circles, yep, And in one circle you've 270 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,160 Speaker 1: got the words what I want, and in another circle you've 271 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,080 Speaker 1: got the words what they want. And the bit where 272 00:13:15,320 --> 00:13:18,760 Speaker 1: they overlap is what we want, and that's consent. And 273 00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,320 Speaker 1: if you start to push into another zone, then that 274 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:24,360 Speaker 1: ceases to be consent. I just think this is such 275 00:13:24,360 --> 00:13:27,880 Speaker 1: an important conversation, especially when teenagers are engaged in sending 276 00:13:28,280 --> 00:13:32,000 Speaker 1: images to one another or going to parties and there's 277 00:13:32,040 --> 00:13:34,400 Speaker 1: all those sorts of pressure. So I just I mean, 278 00:13:34,440 --> 00:13:36,560 Speaker 1: there's so much more we could talk about. This is 279 00:13:36,679 --> 00:13:39,320 Speaker 1: not a paid advertisement, but I want to refer people 280 00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:41,600 Speaker 1: to consent dot gov dot au. Like I said, I 281 00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,880 Speaker 1: am an ambassador for it, and the work that they're 282 00:13:43,920 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: doing is really good. It's really smart work. Myself. Chanel 283 00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:52,400 Speaker 1: Kontos is also an ambassador. Dan Prince Pay who speaks 284 00:13:52,400 --> 00:13:54,520 Speaker 1: about pornography in schools all around the country, he's also 285 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: an ambassador, and Chantel Otten is also an ambassador. So 286 00:13:58,320 --> 00:14:01,320 Speaker 1: it's a pretty power patch forsome who are really trying 287 00:14:01,320 --> 00:14:04,559 Speaker 1: to push this consent conversation and it matters consent dot 288 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:05,319 Speaker 1: gov dot AU. 289 00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,040 Speaker 2: So what about families in my minority situations? 290 00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, Actually, there's a bunch of resources that they've got 291 00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:13,280 Speaker 1: there as well, and I think it's really great. There's 292 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:17,040 Speaker 1: some stuff First Nations families, which is brilliant if English 293 00:14:17,160 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: is not your first language. There's some really good resources 294 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: for people who just need stuff super simple, and they've 295 00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:27,600 Speaker 1: done a really smart job of that. And there's also 296 00:14:27,720 --> 00:14:33,080 Speaker 1: some resources for lgbt Q plus populations as well. Interestingly, 297 00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: consent is in some circumstances that's navigated brilliantly, and other 298 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:41,440 Speaker 1: circumstances it's absolutely atrocious, and so there's really great resources 299 00:14:41,480 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: for all of those as well. Let's wrap this up 300 00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:46,560 Speaker 1: with some final tips. Kylie, have the conversations from the 301 00:14:46,600 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: start folks on ethics and empathy and rights and bodily autonomy. 302 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,400 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the very crux of it. And if 303 00:14:54,440 --> 00:14:56,600 Speaker 1: we start those conversations at the very beginning, our kids 304 00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:58,720 Speaker 1: at least know and understand what we're talking about here. 305 00:14:59,280 --> 00:15:01,600 Speaker 2: Give your kids a voice, Give them a voice. Yeah, 306 00:15:01,760 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 2: from the beginning. 307 00:15:03,040 --> 00:15:05,680 Speaker 1: And I think if you've got daughters, given that we've 308 00:15:05,720 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: got six of them, teaching them that they do not 309 00:15:08,120 --> 00:15:11,760 Speaker 1: owe anything to anybody, especially once they get into adolescents 310 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:15,520 Speaker 1: and start to have an interest in boyfriends, girlfriends, partners, whatever, 311 00:15:16,240 --> 00:15:18,880 Speaker 1: they need to know you just you don't owe them anything. 312 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 1: You don't have to say yes to anything. There's no obligation. 313 00:15:21,280 --> 00:15:23,560 Speaker 1: Just because they bought you dinner, or just because they 314 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:25,400 Speaker 1: bought your milkshake, or just because they bought you a 315 00:15:25,440 --> 00:15:28,440 Speaker 1: two dollars slurpy from seven to eleven doesn't mean that 316 00:15:28,480 --> 00:15:31,360 Speaker 1: you owe them anything at all. You're welcome to say 317 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:34,560 Speaker 1: no every single day until you're ready to start say yes. 318 00:15:34,880 --> 00:15:38,440 Speaker 2: And their whole just because they're them, like they're not 319 00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:41,320 Speaker 2: waiting for Prince Charming to come and sweep them off 320 00:15:41,320 --> 00:15:44,720 Speaker 2: their feet. They are whole and worthy right now. 321 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:47,240 Speaker 1: Yeah, as themselves And the last thing I'd say is 322 00:15:47,280 --> 00:15:50,320 Speaker 1: this education and conversations about consent are not going to 323 00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,120 Speaker 1: stop the sexual violence challenges that we have in Australia 324 00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:55,200 Speaker 1: all on its own. We do need more than that, 325 00:15:55,560 --> 00:15:57,920 Speaker 1: So we need to have these conversations around are the 326 00:15:58,080 --> 00:16:02,280 Speaker 1: areas like our a whole and other drugs and if 327 00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:06,320 Speaker 1: you're raising boys, it really I mean, girls are the 328 00:16:06,320 --> 00:16:08,520 Speaker 1: break boys are the accelerator, and we've got to teach 329 00:16:08,560 --> 00:16:10,240 Speaker 1: them that that's the way it's always been and it 330 00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:13,160 Speaker 1: shouldn't always be that way. That they're not to be 331 00:16:13,240 --> 00:16:15,440 Speaker 1: the accelerator. And if they are going to be the accelerator, 332 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:18,840 Speaker 1: they're not allowed to. The whole idea is you don't 333 00:16:18,840 --> 00:16:20,560 Speaker 1: just put the pedal to the metal. It's not about 334 00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: flooring it. It's about having a really, really healthy kind 335 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,760 Speaker 1: of control and sticking to the speed limit metaphorically speaking, 336 00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:32,840 Speaker 1: letting them know as well that the pain of regret 337 00:16:33,120 --> 00:16:37,640 Speaker 1: as a perpetrator will probably be pretty substantial. Imagine what 338 00:16:37,720 --> 00:16:39,600 Speaker 1: it's going to be like when you've got daughters, how 339 00:16:39,600 --> 00:16:42,160 Speaker 1: you're going to feel, how protective you'll feel, and how 340 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:44,280 Speaker 1: would you feel if your daughter was dating a guy 341 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,040 Speaker 1: like you? Would you be excited because you know they're 342 00:16:47,040 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: going to be safe, or would you be terrified because 343 00:16:48,760 --> 00:16:51,240 Speaker 1: you know what you're like. So I think those kinds 344 00:16:51,240 --> 00:16:55,080 Speaker 1: of conversations matter. I'm not calling boys perpetrators, by the way, 345 00:16:55,160 --> 00:16:56,960 Speaker 1: I'm not calling girls victims. But I think that if 346 00:16:56,960 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: we can have these conversations, we're going to have fewer 347 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: perpetrators and for your vicoy and that's a good thing 348 00:17:00,800 --> 00:17:03,000 Speaker 1: all around. So that's a conversation, A bit of a 349 00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:05,119 Speaker 1: long one, bit of a heavy one. More details at 350 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,920 Speaker 1: consent dot gov dot a you. The Happy Families podcast 351 00:17:08,000 --> 00:17:10,320 Speaker 1: is produced by Justin Rowland from Bridge Media All the 352 00:17:10,320 --> 00:17:12,680 Speaker 1: details that you need for more on this topic or 353 00:17:12,680 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: at consent dot gov dot au. And if you'd like 354 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:17,320 Speaker 1: more information about making your family happier, visit us at 355 00:17:17,320 --> 00:17:18,840 Speaker 1: happy families dot com dot au.