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Speaker 1: My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda

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Speaker 1: Bunjelung Calcuttin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges

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Speaker 1: that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the

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Speaker 1: Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres

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Speaker 1: Strait Island and nations. We pay our respects to the

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Speaker 1: first peoples of these countries, both past and present.

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Speaker 2: Hello, how's your summer going. Are you on a road trip,

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Speaker 2: are you recovering from a big party in the sun,

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Speaker 2: or are you just taking a quiet walk, whatever the

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Speaker 2: case is, you are listening to a special summer series

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Speaker 2: of the TDA Podcast. To kick off, we're going to

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Speaker 2: be revisiting a special project the team did in about

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Speaker 2: the middle of the year. It's called The Mirror, and

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Speaker 2: what we wanted to do was look at the ten

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Speaker 2: years of development since Julia Guillard's misogyny speech, particularly looking

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Speaker 2: at what's changed for women in politics since twenty twelve,

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Speaker 2: but also what's the same. We'll be releasing one episode

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Speaker 2: a day for you tuning in for the first time

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Speaker 2: this week. Hello, Welcome, but also I recommend going back

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Speaker 2: and starting with episode one. Hope you enjoy.

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Speaker 3: This episode of The Mirror is proudly supported by Mecca Empower,

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Speaker 3: a social change movement championing equality and opportunity for women

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Speaker 3: and girls. Just a warning, this episode deals with sexual

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Speaker 3: harassment and assault and maybe distressing for some listeners. There's

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Speaker 3: been a tradition in politics of women staying silent for years.

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Speaker 4: I have ignored it get to you.

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Speaker 5: Don't let them get to you.

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Speaker 3: Of not calling things out.

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Speaker 6: None of us spoke about it, none of us reported.

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Speaker 3: It for fear it would backfire.

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Speaker 6: I was so terrified that it be made to be

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Speaker 6: my fault.

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Speaker 3: But the last few years something shifted.

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Speaker 4: I'm absolute over it and from here on in, when

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Speaker 4: it happens, I'm calling it out.

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Speaker 3: Women working across Australian parliaments at local, state and federal

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Speaker 3: levels in varying positions of power, have come forward with

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Speaker 3: their stories.

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Speaker 7: The women who claim they were sexually assaulted while working

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Speaker 7: for liberal politicians have blasted the.

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Speaker 8: Part who uses our surrounding the Melbourne Lord mayor.

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Speaker 4: The staff is sharing their stories in a private Facebook group,

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Speaker 4: including alligab.

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Speaker 9: He's a man who's groped me and tried to stick

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Speaker 9: his tongue down my throat.

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Speaker 10: No what misogyny looks like in mod in Australia.

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Speaker 3: From the Daily Ours. I'm Billy fitz Simons. This is

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Speaker 3: the Mirror.

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Speaker 5: It is a great honor to be standing here today,

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Speaker 5: not just in this remarkable place that is the Senate,

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Speaker 5: but at a time when I'm Sarah Hanson Young. I'm

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Speaker 5: a Senator from South Australia.

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Speaker 3: Sarah Hanson Young was elected to Parliament in two thousand

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Speaker 3: and seven at the age of twenty five, and.

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Speaker 5: This is a responsibility and which I take great pride.

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Speaker 3: She was the youngest person ever to be elected to

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Speaker 3: the Federal Senate.

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Speaker 5: And I stood out. I looked different, I sounded different.

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Speaker 5: And it became very clear to me right from the

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Speaker 5: get go that some people thought that I just shouldn't

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Speaker 5: be there. A senior journalist said something to me recently

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Speaker 5: that made me realize how important, as a young person

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Speaker 5: my role in parliament is. He said, I don't mind

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Speaker 5: if twenty somethings have jobs, I just don't think they

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Speaker 5: should be running the country.

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Speaker 3: Not only was she a young woman, she was a

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Speaker 3: young mother as well.

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Speaker 5: My daughter had been born on the campaign trail.

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Speaker 3: In June two thousand and nine. Hanson Young became a

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Speaker 3: national talking point.

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Speaker 4: Green Senator Sarah Hanson Young had her two year old

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Speaker 4: daughter taken from her arms laid yesterday.

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Speaker 11: Parents' rights in Parliament are being reexamined after the Senate

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Speaker 11: President ordered a crying toddler to be removed from the chamber.

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Speaker 2: You said last night that you felt humianly.

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Speaker 6: It must have been quite quite a difficult experience to

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Speaker 6: go through it. It was quite difficult.

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Speaker 3: Hands and Young says she also experienced misogyny.

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Speaker 5: Being a single woman very much made me a target

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Speaker 5: of sexualized slurs, innuendo and bullying. The cut and thrust

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Speaker 5: of politics in the chamber bubbles over to being very personal.

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Speaker 5: I've had men in the chamber yell out other men's

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Speaker 5: names at me, suggestions that's the person I'm sleeping with,

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Speaker 5: or that person. All they want to do is get

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Speaker 5: in your pants, which is all meant to be a

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Speaker 5: bit of a head fuck. It's meant to throw you

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Speaker 5: off your game and get you to sit down. And

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Speaker 5: there was a period where I was trying to ignore

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Speaker 5: this for a long time and thinking, as a young woman,

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Speaker 5: don't let them get to you.

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Speaker 6: Don't let them get to you.

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Speaker 3: But it did.

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Speaker 5: I was anxious before I would stand up and speak.

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Speaker 5: There were days where I just refused to go. I

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Speaker 5: just couldn't and that's not good. This is my workplace.

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Speaker 3: Hanson Young put up with it for years.

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Speaker 5: I've seen a number of other women in Parliament copying

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Speaker 5: sexist abuse and treatment and thought to myself, well, thank god,

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Speaker 5: it's not just me.

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Speaker 3: Then in twenty eighteen something happened.

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Speaker 5: David Lyonhelm, the member of Parliament, slut shamed me, and

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Speaker 5: he did it in the chamber.

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Speaker 11: Senator David Lyonhelm has sparked outrage after hurling crude abuse

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Speaker 11: at his Green's counterpart, Sarah Hanson Young during.

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Speaker 3: A debate on legislation about preventing violence against women. Lyonhelm said,

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Speaker 3: stop shagging men.

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Speaker 4: Shocked, I told him that he was a creep. His

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Speaker 4: reply was to tell me to f dot off.

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Speaker 3: Parliamentarians don't have an employer. There's no human resources department

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Speaker 3: to complain to.

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Speaker 5: There was no claim made against him.

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Speaker 3: There isn't even a formal code of conduct or an

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Speaker 3: employment contract that sets rules around the behavior of parliamentarian.

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Speaker 5: Get my employer to step in to clarify.

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Speaker 3: There is a ministerial code of conduct for those in

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Speaker 3: the cabinet, but not a broad one for all parliamentarians.

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Speaker 3: And on top of that, there's something called parliamentary privilege,

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Speaker 3: which is basically a protection for parliamentarians when they're speaking

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Speaker 3: on the parliament floor. They can't get sued even for

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Speaker 3: things like defamation, so harming someone's reputation.

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Speaker 5: And you can't be held liable for anything that you say.

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Speaker 3: So when Lenhelm called across to her in the chamber,

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Speaker 3: Hans and Young didn't have many options.

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Speaker 5: But then he actually went on Sky News and doubled down.

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Speaker 11: This is not a criticism, but Sarah is known for

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Speaker 11: liking men. The rumors about her in Parliament House are

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Speaker 11: well known. So I just said, I'll stop shagging man

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Speaker 11: man Sarah. I mean, it just doesn't make any sense.

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Speaker 11: If you think they're all rapists, why would you shag them.

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Speaker 5: Once he went on Sky News and said even worse

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Speaker 5: comments out of their protection of parliament, I knew I

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Speaker 5: had to stand up for myself.

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Speaker 4: For years, I have ignored it and pretended that they

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Speaker 4: would just go away, that it wasn't impacting on me,

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Speaker 4: that I couldn't hear the comments. I'm over it. I'm

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Speaker 4: absolutely over it, and from here on in when it happens,

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Speaker 4: I'm calling it out.

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Speaker 3: Hats In Young sued for defamation.

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Speaker 5: It became very clear to me that pretending that this

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Speaker 5: is not going on and being stoic about it does

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Speaker 5: not help. I felt a huge sense of responsibility. If

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Speaker 5: that's what happens to a member of parliament, what happens

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Speaker 5: to someone who stands up to harassment in their workplace,

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Speaker 5: when they work at the bar, or on the shop floor,

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Speaker 5: or in a factory, or in a classroom, in an office.

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Speaker 6: The message of my.

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Speaker 5: Silence was I believed irresponsible.

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Speaker 3: Hans and Young eventually won the defamation case tears and release,

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Speaker 3: after more than a year of fighting her reputation in court.

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Speaker 4: I'm glad it's over. This is a really important decision.

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Speaker 3: But even while it was before the court, she continued

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Speaker 3: to face a certain type of insinuation in the Senate.

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Speaker 6: The handsome Young can't make that case.

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Speaker 11: There's a bit there's a bit of there's a bit

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Speaker 11: of an Xenophone in it, and I don't mean that

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Speaker 11: to be a double reference.

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Speaker 3: Nick Xenophon was a senator.

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Speaker 4: But there's a bit of xenophone in her references committees

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Speaker 4: and not attendee.

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Speaker 3: She stood up and called it out.

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Speaker 4: Real men don't insult and threaten women. They don't slunt

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Speaker 4: shame them, and they don't attack them and make them

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Speaker 4: feel bullied in their workplace. I have sat in this

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Speaker 4: chamber for weeks and weeks months and heard the disgusting

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Speaker 4: slurs and attacks coming from a particular group in this place,

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Speaker 4: and I, for one, am sick of it. And I

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Speaker 4: know many of my female colleagues on all sides.

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Speaker 6: Of politics are sick of it too.

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Speaker 4: And I will name you because you are not fit

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Speaker 4: to be in this chamber. You're not fit to represent

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Speaker 4: your constituents, and you're not fit to call yourself men.

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Speaker 3: Up to this point, we're focused on the stories of politicians,

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Speaker 3: but in recent years is more and more staff is

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Speaker 3: the people working for the politicians have spoken up too.

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Speaker 12: I'm often asked whether I've experienced any set of sexism

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Speaker 12: or mistreatment based on my gender in Parliament, House or

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Speaker 12: in my political work, And I'm gonna be honest, like,

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Speaker 12: how much time do you have?

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Speaker 3: Chelsea Potter was a staffer for a liberal senator.

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Speaker 6: It was part of my every day.

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Speaker 12: I saw men my peers being promoted above me for really,

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Speaker 12: to be honest with you, no apparent reason. My relationships

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Speaker 12: were constantly questioned, you see, according to the camera room

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Speaker 12: and Mill's like no one that I haven't slept with,

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Speaker 12: So I, like every man have ever come into contact with,

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Speaker 12: apparently has been a thing. It was so much a

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Speaker 12: part of my every day that it just felt so normal,

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Speaker 12: like it's that kind of frog and boiling water. It

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Speaker 12: just becomes part and parcel of what you expect. In

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Speaker 12: twenty fifty, I was in Canberra and I was sexually

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Speaker 12: assaulted by a colleague after work one night, and I

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Speaker 12: was in the middle of Canberra and had no idea

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Speaker 12: it was actually an intensely harrowing experience. I didn't report

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Speaker 12: it to anyone. In fact, the next day I went

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Speaker 12: to work as if nothing had happened. I was so

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Speaker 12: terrified that it been made to be my fault and

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Speaker 12: that my career would suffer as a result of it,

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Speaker 12: And that was kind of the mentality. It was a

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Speaker 12: real survival mentality, and my conversations with women since that

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Speaker 12: time we were all in the same boat, like we

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Speaker 12: were all suffering.

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Speaker 6: None of us spoke about it. None of US reported it.

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Speaker 12: By about twenty sixteen, it was just getting harder and harder.

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Speaker 12: This person was still very much in my workplace.

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Speaker 3: Chelsea decided to quit.

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Speaker 12: I thought it was just best to step out of politics,

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Speaker 12: which was heartbreaking because since I was sixteen, that was

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Speaker 12: the only job I ever wanted. It's still now the

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Speaker 12: only job I want, and so I made that decision.

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Speaker 3: Chelsea wasn't ready to tell her story at this point.

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Speaker 3: In twenty sixteen, not many parliamentary staffers had come forward

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Speaker 3: with a story like this.

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Speaker 13: My name is Daniel. I first told my story of

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Speaker 13: experiencing sexual abuse in politics in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 3: Daniel Marni was a staffer for the Liberal Party in

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Speaker 3: New South Wales.

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Speaker 13: I think it's important to go back to the first

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Speaker 13: story of a sexual violence or harassment in politics. After

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Speaker 13: this me Too movement arrived in Australia and properly started

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Speaker 13: to take off, which is that of Tessa Sullivan, who

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Speaker 13: is a disabled woman of color.

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Speaker 3: In twenty eighteen, a woman named Tessa Sullivan, a Melbourne

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Speaker 3: counselor so working in local politics, came forward accusing the

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Speaker 3: then Melbourne Lord Mayor of sexual harassment and assault and.

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Speaker 9: We have breaking news of salis surrounding the Melbourne Lord Mayor.

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Speaker 9: He has just a short time ago announced to be

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Speaker 9: taking leave over the unspecified allegations that have been leveled

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Speaker 9: against him.

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Speaker 2: Today the Act, she told her.

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Speaker 13: Story of just very very ongoing harassment that she experienced

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Speaker 13: in a council contact.

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Speaker 10: Melbourne's Lord Mayor is denying several serious allegations of misconduct.

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Speaker 14: Now she's claimed that the Lord Mayor has made several

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Speaker 14: inappropriate comments to her, but also she's claiming there was

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Speaker 14: one incident where he's groped her breasts, which would be

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Speaker 14: in decent assault. Now he has vehemently denied all of

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Speaker 14: these allegations.

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Speaker 13: He's apparently there and seeing her go through that and

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Speaker 13: seeing that for once we were also actually talking about

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Speaker 13: experiences of a woman of color and that she was

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Speaker 13: being afforded some sort of a platform was really heightening. However,

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Speaker 13: it's also important to say that she was taunted pieces

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Speaker 13: by the media. Tessa Sullivan has expressed her frustration at

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Speaker 13: media reporting of the alleged incident using this so she

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Speaker 13: was eating the subject of a Media Watch episode regarding

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Speaker 13: all the issues.

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Speaker 11: And it's now two months since the Herald's sung splashed

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Speaker 11: this front page story, which it's suggested would blow up

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Speaker 11: the complainant's case.

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Speaker 9: Lord mayor probe bombshell counselor's tech sparked dramatic twist in

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Speaker 9: harassment scandal.

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Speaker 13: And I think seeing what Tessa went through only really

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Speaker 13: increased the determination I'd already had to sort of tell

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Speaker 13: my story.

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Speaker 3: Daniea alleges that in twenty fifteen, while working as an

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Speaker 3: assistant advisor to the then Speaker of New South Wales Parliament,

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Speaker 3: she was sexually abused by a male colleague.

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Speaker 13: I chose to speak on my own terms in some

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Speaker 13: way and wrote an essay for Women's Agenda.

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Speaker 3: In March twenty nineteen, Daniel's essay was published. The headline

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Speaker 3: read why victims of sexual harassment in politics are still

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Speaker 3: forced to suffer in silence.

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Speaker 13: In fact, that Women's Agender story is how I got

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Speaker 13: in contact with Chelsea.

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Speaker 12: And I'd reached out and said, look, the party's not

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Speaker 12: going to thank you for doing this, but like I've

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Speaker 12: had some experiences and her and I kind of briefly connected.

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Speaker 12: She came to me and said, look, there might be

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Speaker 12: an opportunity to tell your story.

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Speaker 6: It would help a lot of people, I think.

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Speaker 12: And so.

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Speaker 3: In July twenty nineteen, Daniel and Chelsea told their stories

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Speaker 3: to The Sydney Morning Herald and The Age.

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Speaker 7: Two women who claim they were sexually assaulted while working

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Speaker 7: for Liberal politicians have blasted the party's.

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Speaker 15: Called Chelsea Potter, who worked for a federal minister, a

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Speaker 15: colleague sexually assaulted her in Camber and twenty teve.

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Speaker 14: Na Marney has come forward alleging in New South Wales

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Speaker 14: Liberal staff it sexually assaulted her at her Sydney home

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Speaker 14: in twenty fifteen.

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Speaker 13: A man who I didn't want to be in my

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Speaker 13: home came to my home uninvited and was on top

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Speaker 13: of me.

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Speaker 14: Ms Marney says colleagues cautioned her about coming forward.

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Speaker 13: You'll be told that it's your fault and you'll be

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Speaker 13: seen as untrustworthy.

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Speaker 6: And what's the response been like since you've gone public?

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Speaker 6: From within your party?

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Speaker 3: Silence has been deafening.

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Speaker 13: After I had told my story, nobody in New South

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Speaker 13: Wales Parliament where I'd worked even acknowledged it, and there

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Speaker 13: was a very quick decline in attention.

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Speaker 3: Shortly after Dania came forward, she had a phone call

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Speaker 3: with a senior person in then Prime Minister Scott Morrison's office.

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Speaker 3: According to Daniea, the senior staffer didn't believe her allegation.

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Speaker 13: He didn't understand why I and other women hadn't gone

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Speaker 13: to the police.

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Speaker 3: Dania says she had this constant feeling that no one

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Speaker 3: believed her.

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Speaker 13: I don't think you can separate out the reality that

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Speaker 13: I am a woman of color from the way that

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Speaker 13: I was treated, which is with deep cynicism and like severe,

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Speaker 13: severe questioning as to whether I had any appropriate recall

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Speaker 13: of what had happened to me, and whether anyone would

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Speaker 13: believe me.

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Speaker 3: Daniel go on to make numerous attempts to talk to

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Speaker 3: Morrison about the treatment of women in politics.

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Speaker 13: I also wrote to the Prime Minister twice, like with

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Speaker 13: very long letters. I just got no reply to that.

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Speaker 3: I actually spoke to Dania about this for a story

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Speaker 3: I was working on at the time, and when I

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Speaker 3: reached out to the Prime Minister's office to ask if

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Speaker 3: Scott Morrison intended to reply to Dania, they told me

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Speaker 3: he would respond, but I have.

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Speaker 13: Never actually received that reply. It was just kind of

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Speaker 13: devastating to again sort of see that even that is

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Speaker 13: not a given for women like me.

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Speaker 12: The response from people in Parliament was pretty deafening.

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Speaker 3: Chelsea was also underwhelmed at the response she received from

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Speaker 3: her former workplace.

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Speaker 12: There were two only two people MPs who got in

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Speaker 12: touch at the rest. I didn't hear anything at all,

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Speaker 12: complete silence, Like it just I kind of sat back

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Speaker 12: and I had no regrets, but I was like, kind

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Speaker 12: of like, what happens now.

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Speaker 3: In November twenty twenty, over a year after Daniel and

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Speaker 3: Chelsea came forward, ABC's Four Corners ed inside the Canberra Bubble.

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Speaker 10: Welcome to Four Corners. There's a strong but unofficial tradition

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Speaker 10: in federal politics of what happens in Canberra stays in Canberra.

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Speaker 3: Reported by Louise Milligan. It looked at the conduct of

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Speaker 3: some of the most senior politicians in the nation.

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Speaker 10: Serious questions and now being raised about the Attorney General's

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Speaker 10: conduct and they go back over decades.

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Speaker 5: This isn't okay, The behavior wasn't okay, and the culture's

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Speaker 5: not okay and there should be something done about it.

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Speaker 12: Watching the camera bubble, that's the moment I kind of

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Speaker 12: sat up and went, yeah, I reckon, this is going

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Speaker 12: to become something.

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Speaker 3: In February twenty twenty one, another story broke.

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Speaker 8: An explosive allegation that throws the spotlight once again on

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Speaker 8: the culture inside Parliament House.

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Speaker 3: A woman named Britney Higgins alleged she was raped by

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Speaker 3: a male colleague in Parliament House in twenty nineteen.

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Speaker 9: Britney Higgins alleges what happened inside one night was horrific.

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Speaker 3: She was working for a federal minister at the time.

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Speaker 3: Former Liberal staffer Britney Higgins says she was raped by

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Speaker 3: a colleague in the early hours of March twenty three,

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Speaker 3: twenty nineteen. The man at the center of the allegations

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Speaker 3: denies all wrongdoing. The case is currently before the courts,

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Speaker 3: so we won't go into much detail of her allegation,

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Speaker 3: but the political response to her allegation is important to

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Speaker 3: talk about.

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Speaker 8: When Scott Morrison first commented on the Britney Higgins allegations.

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Speaker 3: This is Sean Kelly. He was a staffer in the

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Speaker 3: RD and Gillard years, but today he's a journalist. He

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Speaker 3: also wrote a biography on It's Got Morrison.

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Speaker 8: He made a comment that was kind enough and sympathetic enough.

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Speaker 15: My government takes all such matters, all matters of workplace safety,

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Speaker 15: very very seriously, but.

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Speaker 8: Was also very largely pro former. It sounded bureaucratic.

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Speaker 15: Everyone should feel safe in their workplace wherever that is.

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Speaker 4: So.

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Speaker 8: Then he came back the next day and he was

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Speaker 8: asked again, I.

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Speaker 15: Said yesterday in the Parliament that we had to listen

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Speaker 15: to Brittany.

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Speaker 8: And he said that he talked to Jenny, and.

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Speaker 16: Jenny's his wife and she said to me, you have

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Speaker 16: to think about this as a father first.

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Speaker 15: What would you want to happen if it were our girls?

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Speaker 8: And he was asked, shouldn't you have thought about it

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Speaker 8: as a human being?

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Speaker 10: What happened?

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Speaker 5: You don't have a wife and children.

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Speaker 8: And I've always thought the Prime Minister's responsor that was

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Speaker 8: even more amazing. He said, Look, in my own experience,

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Speaker 8: being a husband and a father is central to me

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Speaker 8: in my human.

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Speaker 15: Being, So I just can't follow the question.

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Speaker 8: You coulding that to me seems like a radical admission

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Speaker 8: of being not able to empathize with almost anybody.

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Speaker 3: Morrison was under pressure, but it wasn't just the coalition

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Speaker 3: coming under fire.

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Speaker 13: Female labor staff is sharing their stories in a private

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Speaker 13: Facebook group.

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Speaker 7: As the cultural concerns that have challenged the Liberals for

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Speaker 7: the last month. Now confront labor, I'm.

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Speaker 9: Going to read out a couple. Quote he's a man

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Speaker 9: who calls his female colleague a pig dog when she

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Speaker 9: disagrees with him. Quote, he's a man who says he'd

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Speaker 9: never sleep with a woman without a thigh gap. And

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Speaker 9: quote he's a man who some forty is my senior,

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Speaker 9: groped me and tried to stick his tongue down my

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Speaker 9: throat in a lifted work.

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Speaker 3: More and more stories of harassment and assault within parliaments

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Speaker 3: were coming to light, and from the individual stories women

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Speaker 3: standing up one by one and speaking out, a movement

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Speaker 3: was born.

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Speaker 5: I felt that explosion of frustration.

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Speaker 3: Next week on The Mirror, there's no avoiding this rising

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Speaker 3: tide of fury. If this episode has brought up any

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Speaker 3: issues for you, you can call one eight hundred respect

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Speaker 3: on one eight hundred seven three seven seven three to two.

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Speaker 3: The Mirror is researched by Lucy Tassel, produced and edited

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Speaker 3: by Nina Kopple. I'm Billy fitz Simon's and we have

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Speaker 3: fourth and final episode of The Mirror. See then. This

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Speaker 2: Thanks for listening to this episode of our special TDA

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Speaker 11: H