Speaker 1: Hi, It's Patrini Jones.
Speaker 2: You know, I've lost count the number of times I've
Speaker 2: been live on our radio show and I'll be chatting
Speaker 2: away and just completely lose my train of thought. It's
Speaker 2: like a rug ripped out from under my feet. I've
Speaker 2: come to learn that it's a common symptom of perimenopause
Speaker 2: and menopause. You know, the so called brain fog that
Speaker 2: leaves you feeling totally abandoned, But it can be downright
Speaker 2: embarrassing at times, leaving you with fears that you'll be
Speaker 2: seen as incompetent in the workplace. In fact, a recent
Speaker 2: HCF survey found more than one third of ossie women
Speaker 2: over forty five are concerned about menopause in the workplace
Speaker 2: having a negative impact on the perception of their productivity,
Speaker 2: which leads to my next guest. Imagen Crump is an
Speaker 2: editor of the University of Melbourne's Research News website and
Speaker 2: presenter on ABC TV, and really should be applauded for
Speaker 2: her authenticity when she admitted live on National TV that
Speaker 2: she was having a hot flush and really couldn't push
Speaker 2: on with her report. Imagen, did I feel what so
Speaker 2: many women should feel safe to do? Enjoy and take
Speaker 2: inspiration from episode three, The Hag, which is.
Speaker 1: I really want to talk about this. Let's move on
Speaker 1: to The Australian.
Speaker 3: It has the latest on the Prime Ministers visit the China.
Speaker 3: Yes and not a pardon Michael, big chill, but the
Speaker 3: PM doesn't pander yet. So the bilateral meeting between Australia
Speaker 3: and China. Anthony Alberteasi and Chinese. I'm so sorry I
Speaker 3: could keep stumbling through this, but I am having such
Speaker 3: a perimonal perimedopausal.
Speaker 4: Right now live on air. It's so Softogen.
Speaker 5: The point about this is that we need to make
Speaker 5: it normal of these kinds of conversations. And I love
Speaker 5: you for even saying it, because we interview people, we
Speaker 5: talk to people about this, and this is the reality.
Speaker 3: I don't think respect national television.
Speaker 4: It's the furthest of the sun.
Speaker 2: That audio there thanks to ABC TV, and I do
Speaker 2: have in the studio in the flesh, Imagen Crumb, I'm
Speaker 2: so sorry to make you sit through that again.
Speaker 4: It's weird to listen through. It is weird to hear it.
Speaker 3: And it sort of flashed back to that moment when
Speaker 3: it was happening and trying to decide what to do.
Speaker 1: And sort of catching yourself on the run, isn't it.
Speaker 2: Imagen is the editor of the University of Melbourne's research
Speaker 2: news website Pursuit, and is a regular paper reviewer on
Speaker 2: the ABC, which we heard on her there.
Speaker 1: Can I say, I.
Speaker 2: Think what you're Can we call it a happy faux pas?
Speaker 2: It really was a milestone moment I think in changing
Speaker 2: the narrative of perimenopause and menopause. I applaud you as
Speaker 2: a presenter in media. No, really, because I have had
Speaker 2: so many brain fog moments I've been on the radio
Speaker 2: and you don't want to admit that you're having a
Speaker 2: moment or that you're struggling for fear of being seen
Speaker 2: as weak in the workplace. What was going through your mind? Like,
Speaker 2: what was happening for you at that time?
Speaker 3: Well, you know, I was thinking in bullet points, so
Speaker 3: and it hot flushes like that happened so quickly, and
Speaker 3: I hadn't had one for a while, so I wasn't
Speaker 3: expecting it to happen, And you just feel this the
Speaker 3: best way to describe it is it's like molten lava
Speaker 3: that just rolls up your body and it's got little
Speaker 3: needle pricks as well, and it is so distracting and
Speaker 3: all absorbing that it's very hard to think about what else.
Speaker 2: Is you know, body, it's zero to one hundred, zero
Speaker 2: point three of a second and it's just like spontaneous combustion.
Speaker 2: I can't describe it any And it's like peeling clothes
Speaker 2: off if you're at home and just hair goes up.
Speaker 2: Everyone just stopped talking, TV goes off.
Speaker 3: Like everything is too much. It really is everything. It's
Speaker 3: like a sensory overlap, absolutely, and like that's the that's
Speaker 3: the physical stuff. But then your brain is so focused
Speaker 3: on the physical stuff you can't think about anything else. So,
Speaker 3: you know, I was talking about quite a serious story,
Speaker 3: these bilateral meetings between China and Australia, massive important thing,
Speaker 3: and I I just couldn't explain it, and I was
Speaker 3: kind of it's that I guess it must feel like
Speaker 3: stage fright, which I'm lucky enough not to have had.
Speaker 3: But well, you just can't think of the next words.
Speaker 3: And so in that moment, in that bullet point, I
Speaker 3: was like, I just have to explain. I just have
Speaker 3: to explain what's happening, and exactly what you said, I
Speaker 3: don't want to look inept at my job. I'm good
Speaker 3: at my job, so I need to provide an explanation.
Speaker 3: And I've had a lot of women say since, well,
Speaker 3: why didn't you just say you're feeling sick or why not?
Speaker 3: Not in a critical way, but just in a did
Speaker 3: it not occur to you way?
Speaker 4: And I was like, I agree, I agree.
Speaker 3: And I think in that that moment, I was like,
Speaker 3: I'm just going to explain.
Speaker 4: I'm just going to say and.
Speaker 3: I will also say, you know, kudos to Lisa and Michael,
Speaker 3: particularly Lisa, and I think that was part of it.
Speaker 3: I've been doing the paper reviews for quite a while
Speaker 3: and I guess I kind of felt safe enough absolutely
Speaker 3: to say it totally forgetting about that.
Speaker 2: You got that trust on it and it's so important,
Speaker 2: and for me as a presenter, I thought it was
Speaker 2: actually quite a beautiful thing.
Speaker 1: It was a beautiful thing.
Speaker 2: And how they both rallied behind it rally and this
Speaker 2: is what we need to do. HCF The Health Fund
Speaker 2: has done a really interesting recent survey on perimenopause and
Speaker 2: the impacts on the workplace. More than one in three
Speaker 2: Aussie women over the age of forty five say The
Speaker 2: main areas are concern are that they feel it could
Speaker 2: have a negative impact on the perception of women's productivity
Speaker 2: or performance in the workplace. Three and ten thirty percent
Speaker 2: are concerned that their colleagues or managers may think that
Speaker 2: they can't do their job properly if they let them
Speaker 2: know they were struggling because of the symptoms.
Speaker 4: That's real.
Speaker 2: So when we're pregnant and we have horrific morning sickness,
Speaker 2: we're not afraid to say, hey, can't come in today,
Speaker 2: put my head down the toilet. I think we need
Speaker 2: to change the narrative, and doing what you did on
Speaker 2: the ABC is helping to do that. We need to
Speaker 2: talk about it, we need to normalize it totally.
Speaker 3: And you know, it is kind of flumming saying why
Speaker 3: it's so taboo. I mean, I guess with pregnancy, you know,
Speaker 3: it's so physically obvious that that you are with child
Speaker 3: and all those associated symptoms, and I think with perimenopause
Speaker 3: it's more subtle and it's more sneaky. And you know, people,
Speaker 3: a lot of these these women, most women who are
Speaker 3: going through it, are kind of at the peak of
Speaker 3: their careers, right, so they've reached a point where they're
Speaker 3: competent and they're confident, and they're potentially in really quite
Speaker 3: powerful positions all these decades to get to the play
Speaker 3: and so to then be undermine, yes, by their hormones.
Speaker 3: And it's not by their hormones, it's by other people's
Speaker 3: judgment of their hormones that that they might think they're
Speaker 3: inept or bad at their jobs because of a you know,
Speaker 3: two to twenty five second hot flush.
Speaker 4: Is just seems so weird, right.
Speaker 2: The stigma is, I don't know why. Why is there
Speaker 2: a stigma? It's a natural bodily process, as is menstruating
Speaker 2: and pregnancy, childbirth.
Speaker 1: Yep, I don't I don't get it.
Speaker 3: I don't know. There must be there must be a
Speaker 3: historical reason or a societal reason that you know, I've
Speaker 3: had a whole lot of women getting in touch with me,
Speaker 3: which has been amazing, referring to us as the hag witches,
Speaker 3: which I quite like. I don't mind being a hag witch.
Speaker 3: But I guess there must be something cultural societally where
Speaker 3: menopause is seen as something bad and it's you know,
Speaker 3: it's probably tied up in women's aging.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, sh shove you into the top paddic and
Speaker 2: you're top part.
Speaker 1: You're not good to us anymore, you can't procreate. Off
Speaker 1: you go and live out your days in the top paddic.
Speaker 2: Yeah, more than three and five more HCF stats, more
Speaker 2: than three and five sixty two percent of those workings.
Speaker 2: So they would have concerns about it being discussed more
Speaker 2: if conversations were normalized, with those working full time much
Speaker 2: more likely than those working part time to cite their
Speaker 2: colleagues managers potentially thinking that they can't do their job.
Speaker 3: Oh that's so yeah, so frustrating. And you know these
Speaker 3: are these are judgments where as women are making about
Speaker 3: ourselves as well, Like we're taught to keep storm on
Speaker 3: this and I don't know, it's so subtle how we're
Speaker 3: influenced not to talk about it, and I genuinely don't
Speaker 3: know why.
Speaker 4: It's.
Speaker 3: Yes, it's crap for a lot of women to experience,
Speaker 3: and it is discombobulating and disconcerting and bouncy and it
Speaker 3: can be distressing, but we've kind of imposed some silence
Speaker 3: on ourselves. And you know, I think there's obviously societal
Speaker 3: pressures and all sorts of things, and I'm sure someone
Speaker 3: out there is yelling the patriarchy, but it's also something
Speaker 3: we're doing to ourselves by keeping quiet on and there
Speaker 3: has to be a change in that conversation.
Speaker 4: And I feel like that change is happening.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the ship is turning, but it's going
Speaker 2: to take a while.
Speaker 4: Let's not be the.
Speaker 1: Titanic and hit the eyes. It's funny to say that.
Speaker 2: I was at a lunch recently and I was telling
Speaker 2: a group of women over their fifties about the podcast.
Speaker 2: Of them were really passionate. You know, it was like
Speaker 2: bees to honey. When I heard what I was talking about,
Speaker 2: that's all relief.
Speaker 5: Yeah.
Speaker 2: They all had a story, and I said to a
Speaker 2: couple of them, I would love to have you on
Speaker 2: my podcast. One of them said, and quite a well
Speaker 2: known person said, oh no, I couldn't do that. And
Speaker 2: I respected that obviously because it's personal. But why can't
Speaker 2: Did you have a reason?
Speaker 1: Did I think it was.
Speaker 2: She wouldn't be seen as being what she marketed herself
Speaker 2: as abbs. But that's why I want to do it,
Speaker 2: because I really pride myself on being real and being authentic,
Speaker 2: and if I'm going to do it, I need to
Speaker 2: share as well and hopefully by me sharing if.
Speaker 4: It just hits a note, well, I think it's brilliant one.
Speaker 2: Other woman and saying hey, it's okay's absolutely about this.
Speaker 2: Let's open the conversation, sort of create this community of support,
Speaker 2: a network of support.
Speaker 1: Then I will have achieved.
Speaker 4: What I said.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think you're gonna genuinely not just help
Speaker 3: a lot of women, but a lot of men. You know,
Speaker 3: I think one of the things I've found after this
Speaker 3: is the reaction I had has been genuinely amazing. Yes,
Speaker 3: the support has been amazing, and that's not just from women.
Speaker 3: That's from blokes as well, saying, oh, you know, I
Speaker 3: shared this with my wife to let her know she's
Speaker 3: not alone, or this started a conversation with my teenage
Speaker 3: daughters who didn't even know that perrymanopause was a thing.
Speaker 3: I mean I didn't when I was a teenager.
Speaker 1: You've just given me.
Speaker 2: Goose bumps, because if anything of what happened on the ABC,
Speaker 2: that is the best measure.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, what you've done.
Speaker 2: I hope you realize the enormity of what you've done
Speaker 2: to the argument. No you have, don't shake your head.
Speaker 2: You really have talking about the younger generation. I have
Speaker 2: a daughter, you have a daughter in your teens. I
Speaker 2: also hope to achieve with this and talking about it
Speaker 2: in making hopefully their path down the track that little
Speaker 2: bit easier. Agreed, it's a huge legacy. I think that
Speaker 2: we can that we can leave. Have you had the
Speaker 2: conversation with your daughter, she's like fifteen sixteen now.
Speaker 4: She does not care.
Speaker 3: About anything other than her friends, than her phone.
Speaker 1: Well, she's a normal teenager.
Speaker 3: She's totally a normal teenager. I mean, I guess, And
Speaker 3: you know, I've had cause to think about it a
Speaker 3: lot since that moment or the ABC, and I don't
Speaker 3: know whether it came from my mum. So I lost
Speaker 3: my mum very early. Sorry no no, it was years ago.
Speaker 3: But she didn't make it to perimenopause or menopause, and
Speaker 3: so when my symptoms started, I was genuinely terrified. Well
Speaker 3: I had no idea what was going on. And when
Speaker 3: I first went to the doctor and the doctor said
Speaker 3: the word perry menopause to me, I was like, I'm
Speaker 3: awfully sorry, but I think you.
Speaker 4: Have me confused with someone else. Yes, I'm forty two
Speaker 4: this and what is the pery thing? Because I've heard
Speaker 4: of menopause.
Speaker 3: CAD was the pery thing, and so that's kind of
Speaker 3: when it all started. And from there, I've been very
Speaker 3: upfront about it with my family.
Speaker 4: Like literally coming home and going, have you guys heard
Speaker 4: of peri menopause? I've got that.
Speaker 3: And then, as you know, it's a massive collection of
Speaker 3: symptoms and it varies from.
Speaker 4: Woman to woman. It can be totally different.
Speaker 2: Oh crazy, what's the craziest symptom you've got?
Speaker 1: Do you think.
Speaker 4: Sore gums?
Speaker 1: Wow?
Speaker 3: Really well, actually I take that back, because the first
Speaker 3: thing I went to the doctor about I'm going to
Speaker 3: have to try and not to laugh. The first thing
Speaker 3: I went to the doctor about when I was forty
Speaker 3: two was because I've lived my life with dead straight
Speaker 3: hair and at the age of forty two, my hair
Speaker 3: started going curly. That's insane, right, And so I said
Speaker 3: to my hairdresser, what are you doing different? Let's not
Speaker 3: layer so much at this, but I was saying, is
Speaker 3: that do you know why it's going curly? And he
Speaker 3: was like, oh, I might be hormones, and I was like,
Speaker 3: for real, anyway, Obviously talking to pregnant mates.
Speaker 4: About how their hair changed.
Speaker 3: And in puberty, one of my cousins went from having
Speaker 3: straight hair to curly hair in puberty. So I went
Speaker 3: to the doctor going, what is getting curly hair? A
Speaker 3: symptom of wow, So that was my first symptom. It
Speaker 3: was kind of going, this is a weird change. But
Speaker 3: just getting back to your other question and sort of
Speaker 3: being open and how I talked to my teenager about it.
Speaker 3: So I was kind of really open about it with
Speaker 3: my husband and my kids and my extended family. And
Speaker 3: then that in turn has made my fifteen year old
Speaker 3: really quite so much more upfront than I ever was
Speaker 3: about puberty. Like she asks stuff, and you know, so
Speaker 3: now she's getting to know what happens at the other end.
Speaker 3: I mean, it's slightly unfortunate for my husband that he's
Speaker 3: got a puberty ridden teenager and a penny perimenopause or
Speaker 3: sweaty woman.
Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it.
Speaker 2: It's kind of ironic, is like our daughters kind of
Speaker 2: started and I'm sort of finishing, and Chris is kind
Speaker 2: of like caught in the middle of the cyclone.
Speaker 1: It's but I love that you. I think we do
Speaker 1: have a role.
Speaker 2: As women in passing on the bat and I think
Speaker 2: anything we can do to discuss and normalize. It is great.
Speaker 2: One of my weird symptoms.
Speaker 4: I was going to ask you yours.
Speaker 2: It's so bizarre. I thought I had like an ear infection.
Speaker 2: I've got dermatitis in my ears, which just inside your ear,
Speaker 2: inside my ears, and it's dry.
Speaker 1: Well it's it's the ear going to so it's like
Speaker 1: not so much.
Speaker 2: A lot of women get itchy's skin of mine seems
Speaker 2: to be around both my ears and it's so odd.
Speaker 2: I went to my GP and he said, I think
Speaker 2: you need gromets.
Speaker 4: I remember grommet and I.
Speaker 1: Said no, sorry, I'm not a toddler.
Speaker 2: And I said no, sorry, I don't think I'll be
Speaker 2: getting romets.
Speaker 1: And he so we ears are actually quite bad, and
Speaker 1: I say, yeah, I know. I'm living with it, so
Speaker 1: I'm really trying to persist with it.
Speaker 4: What are you doing for it? Not much? Okay?
Speaker 1: You know what is good is swimming in the sea.
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, seawater. Saltwater fixes everything.
Speaker 3: I I feel that too, and I get like winds
Speaker 3: like that makes a slightly more hag witchy that we
Speaker 3: want to chuck ourselves in the seaweed all over. So yeah,
Speaker 3: there is so many weird ones and like the research
Speaker 3: going on is actually adding to those symptoms of that
Speaker 3: list of symptoms all the time, because they are vast
Speaker 3: and they are varied, and you're not gonna, I don't
Speaker 3: want to terrify anyone.
Speaker 4: You're not going to get all of them, No, hopefully
Speaker 4: not no.
Speaker 3: But you know there are some really unexpected ones with
Speaker 3: skin changes, like you're talking about eyesight changes, hearing changes, yes,
Speaker 3: even taste changes. So there's all sorts of things that
Speaker 3: we're still finding out. I mean, perimenopause and menopause hasn't
Speaker 3: really been something that has had a whole lot of
Speaker 3: investment over the humanity's research history, but it is getting
Speaker 3: more now and as they research it more and more
Speaker 3: and more, they are finding out so many things that
Speaker 3: are associated with perimenopause and menopause that hadn't been linked before. So,
Speaker 3: you know, I think there is a sea change, and
Speaker 3: I do also think I have a theory it's like
Speaker 3: your saltwater theory. I think it's also our age group
Speaker 3: aging up. I think we're sorry boomers, but we're less
Speaker 3: prudish and we're more likely to be open about things.
Speaker 3: And so I think a whole lot of gen X
Speaker 3: women are God, dare I say it? Millennials are now
Speaker 3: hitting you know, perimenopause menopause age, and they're being more
Speaker 3: vocal about it.
Speaker 4: They're not hiding away.
Speaker 2: No, we don't need to that's for sure. Oh that's
Speaker 2: what I was going to ask you. Are you taking
Speaker 2: anything for your minopause? Like how if you are? At
Speaker 2: what point did you say no, I need something.
Speaker 3: I am taking HRT now and I have been on
Speaker 3: it for gosh. It started in one of the many lockdowns,
Speaker 3: was where it just got too much for me, and
Speaker 3: so I went a lot and had a consultation. And
Speaker 3: my big worry about HRT was the link reported link
Speaker 3: to breast cancer. Now, that link comes from a two
Speaker 3: thousand and two study, So think about how old that
Speaker 3: is for a second. It's it's it's real old. It's now,
Speaker 3: and that link was originally. I don't want to defame anyone,
Speaker 3: but following research has found that that link was overstated.
Speaker 3: So yes, HRT does come with this minimal risk of
Speaker 3: increased risk of breast cancer, but not the original risk
Speaker 3: they said. So A, I think a lot of women
Speaker 3: are scared of HRT because it's got this reputation that
Speaker 3: isn't deserved, and HRT has come on a really long
Speaker 3: way since two thousand and too.
Speaker 4: So I went.
Speaker 3: And had this consultation, and you know, it is worth
Speaker 3: saying not all women can take our HRT.
Speaker 4: They're not able to. Yeah, exactly, it's individual.
Speaker 3: So it's trial and error. You work out what dosage works,
Speaker 3: anything like anything exactly. And then so I was good
Speaker 3: for about eighteen months or so when I found my
Speaker 3: perfect equilibrium of estrogen patches and a marina which also
Speaker 3: releases progesterone.
Speaker 4: Yes, and then supply chain shortages hit this.
Speaker 3: Yes. So there is a massive supply chain issue with HRT,
Speaker 3: particularly the patches. So what has happened is there's manufacturing issues.
Speaker 3: There's I don't want to call them ingredients, what would
Speaker 3: you call it? Whatever they are ingredients, what goes into it? Yeah,
Speaker 3: stuff that goes into so shortage is there. But then
Speaker 3: there's also supply chain issues so getting things from day Yeah,
Speaker 3: So I went the day I found out, I went
Speaker 3: to eight pharmacists going do you have HIT, do you
Speaker 3: have AHLT? None of them had my milligram, and so
Speaker 3: I called my lovely GP and I was like, well
Speaker 3: what do I do? And he said, look, you can
Speaker 3: go on to the estrogen gel, but it's not like
Speaker 3: for like you're going to have to go back through
Speaker 3: the trial and error. So I'd been doing that for
Speaker 3: probably six weeks before that moment on the ABC, and
Speaker 3: I had not got it right. So I was getting
Speaker 3: stuff again. I was getting more brain fog. I was
Speaker 3: getting the hot night sweats.
Speaker 2: Yeah, insomnia, insomnia. I wake up in the morning if
Speaker 2: I've had a bad night. It's not every night, but
Speaker 2: I obviously get up early for the show three o'clock.
Speaker 2: And when you haven't slept, and it's just an exhaustion
Speaker 2: all day. And it's not like you can say to
Speaker 2: your family, I'm just going to clock out. Of course
Speaker 2: you can, but you there's stuff that needs to be done.
Speaker 2: When your mum and employee, and you know you've got
Speaker 2: elderly parents who are rowing on you as well. It's
Speaker 2: not like you can just tap out all the time.
Speaker 2: I know, sadly, it's just debilitating some day.
Speaker 3: There's no nap pod for you. No, there's not a
Speaker 3: pod that you can shut yourself up in. No, And
Speaker 3: I think you know that's the It's such a juggle,
Speaker 3: it's such a juggle, and you know, I'm the same
Speaker 3: as you.
Speaker 4: I've got kids, I've got a job, I've got older.
Speaker 3: Dad, and there's a lot of sort of push me
Speaker 3: pull us that happen. And when you chuck hormone on
Speaker 3: top of that, it can be so genuinely distressing. And
Speaker 3: I think, what you know, we've talked about here the
Speaker 3: physical effects of perimenopause and menopause, but then there are
Speaker 3: the mental effects and they're.
Speaker 4: Really real as well.
Speaker 3: So a lot of women struggle with anxiety or depression
Speaker 3: or terrible mood swings. My favorite furious, red rage anger
Speaker 3: moment that I can now look at objectively, but at
Speaker 3: the time I couldn't was sitting on a train and
Speaker 3: to my mind, the doors were closing too loud, right,
Speaker 3: And the narrative I had, yeah, the narrative I had
Speaker 3: in my head, and I won't swear. My narrative was
Speaker 3: very sweary, was how can we put.
Speaker 4: A man on the moon fifty.
Speaker 3: Years ago, sixty years ago, and we still can't make
Speaker 3: train doors close? Quite?
Speaker 5: Like?
Speaker 3: I was furious, so true, be curious, yes, And then
Speaker 3: I hopped off the train, and you know, maybe a
Speaker 3: couple of days went by and I looked back on
Speaker 3: it and I was like, what what was that about.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a check, a self check. Yeah, you
Speaker 1: can't help it, you can't, you can't help it.
Speaker 2: No, I've had periods of like that as well with
Speaker 2: my family, where I've just snapped and you feel so awful.
Speaker 4: Then there's guilt.
Speaker 2: There's so much guilt, and you think, I've got to
Speaker 2: do better than this.
Speaker 1: But it's just I know, softly as she goes.
Speaker 4: Yeah, and also you know the guilt stuff.
Speaker 3: You know, we do need to treat ourselves a bit
Speaker 3: more kindly, like we really I don't know about you, actually,
Speaker 3: I can probably guess. We do expect to be able
Speaker 3: to do everything every single fee time. And when you know,
Speaker 3: in a way, perimenopause and menopause gives you a bit
Speaker 3: of a wake up call that you you kind of
Speaker 3: can't and you've got to take care of yourself a
Speaker 3: bit better than you did in your twenties and your thirties,
Speaker 3: and potentially you're.
Speaker 1: Just second forget anymore. And then it's like, oh, my.
Speaker 4: Knees, my knee asleep.
Speaker 1: Going on with that. So what have you found that's
Speaker 1: helped you? Obviously, the patches.
Speaker 3: They really helped me. The other thing I've found brilliantly
Speaker 3: helpful is a sympathetic doctor. Yes, is just being able
Speaker 3: to go in and say feel heard.
Speaker 4: Yeah, this sucks, you know.
Speaker 3: I know we've done everything we can with HRT, and
Speaker 3: you know, all that common sensical stuff like exercise and
Speaker 3: diet and whatever, and not drinking too much although we
Speaker 3: were a lot of class, but just having an amone
Speaker 3: as well antir mates.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's really important. Supporting your girlfriends and
Speaker 2: being open to being real and supporting one another. I
Speaker 2: find that's the greatest support. I agree, well, I agree
Speaker 2: to my girlfriends.
Speaker 3: And I think I do remember, you know, I've got
Speaker 3: a lovely mixed bunch of really old mates, men and
Speaker 3: women who have known for a really long time. And
Speaker 3: I do remember being a dead dinner party after my
Speaker 3: hair went curly and one of my male mates said,
Speaker 3: have you got a per and I was like, no,
Speaker 3: it's Perry menopause, And there was a lot of eyebrows up.
Speaker 4: There was a lot of oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoah.
Speaker 3: But it's interesting, I would say, over the last five years,
Speaker 3: So how do I now forty nine? So I've had
Speaker 3: it for seven years, so maybe over the last five years.
Speaker 4: They're much more open about it too, and they have questions.
Speaker 1: That's great.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and all of them too. Our men got in
Speaker 3: touch after the ABC moment, going this is great.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Oh, and I'm so glad you did it. Yeah. Not
Speaker 4: that I had a choice, you know, really at the
Speaker 4: moment you.
Speaker 1: Did, because a lot of women would have just soldiers.
Speaker 4: Sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So no, you did have a choice, and bless you.
Speaker 2: The choice you made, which was to be honest and real.
Speaker 2: And like I say, you've helped so much in changing
Speaker 2: the narrative. And you know what, it's also given me
Speaker 2: a flag to you know what, I need to be
Speaker 2: more honest. It's a check for my self as someone
Speaker 2: in the media of.
Speaker 1: You know, I can go further in being honest.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm having brain fog, which is really quite often
Speaker 2: someday me too.
Speaker 1: So thank you so much, and thank you for your time.
Speaker 4: Loved being here, Thank you for having me.
Speaker 2: That was imag And Crump, journalist and editor of the
Speaker 2: University of Melbourne's research news website Pursuit. Touching on menopause
Speaker 2: in the workplace, We explore that further in this series now,
Speaker 2: Episode four needs very little introduction as I welcome into
Speaker 2: the studio Ozzie author Kaz Cook.
Speaker 1: We're all familiar with her bestseller Up the Duve.
Speaker 2: Now she's lent her laugh out loud signature style to.
Speaker 1: It's the Menopause.
Speaker 2: Get the lowdown in this next installment of Rage Against
Speaker 2: the Menopause. I'm Patrini Jons and thanks for listening.