1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:01,880 Speaker 1: Hi, It's Patrini Jones. 2 00:00:01,920 --> 00:00:03,800 Speaker 2: You know, I've lost count the number of times I've 3 00:00:03,840 --> 00:00:06,080 Speaker 2: been live on our radio show and I'll be chatting 4 00:00:06,120 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 2: away and just completely lose my train of thought. It's 5 00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 2: like a rug ripped out from under my feet. I've 6 00:00:12,440 --> 00:00:14,880 Speaker 2: come to learn that it's a common symptom of perimenopause 7 00:00:14,920 --> 00:00:17,439 Speaker 2: and menopause. You know, the so called brain fog that 8 00:00:17,520 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 2: leaves you feeling totally abandoned, But it can be downright 9 00:00:20,800 --> 00:00:23,320 Speaker 2: embarrassing at times, leaving you with fears that you'll be 10 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 2: seen as incompetent in the workplace. In fact, a recent 11 00:00:26,800 --> 00:00:30,160 Speaker 2: HCF survey found more than one third of ossie women 12 00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,720 Speaker 2: over forty five are concerned about menopause in the workplace 13 00:00:33,760 --> 00:00:37,879 Speaker 2: having a negative impact on the perception of their productivity, 14 00:00:38,200 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 2: which leads to my next guest. Imagen Crump is an 15 00:00:41,800 --> 00:00:45,680 Speaker 2: editor of the University of Melbourne's Research News website and 16 00:00:45,800 --> 00:00:50,120 Speaker 2: presenter on ABC TV, and really should be applauded for 17 00:00:50,159 --> 00:00:54,720 Speaker 2: her authenticity when she admitted live on National TV that 18 00:00:54,800 --> 00:00:57,680 Speaker 2: she was having a hot flush and really couldn't push 19 00:00:57,680 --> 00:01:00,960 Speaker 2: on with her report. Imagen, did I feel what so 20 00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:05,000 Speaker 2: many women should feel safe to do? Enjoy and take 21 00:01:05,080 --> 00:01:08,880 Speaker 2: inspiration from episode three, The Hag, which is. 22 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:13,640 Speaker 1: I really want to talk about this. Let's move on 23 00:01:13,680 --> 00:01:14,479 Speaker 1: to The Australian. 24 00:01:14,760 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 3: It has the latest on the Prime Ministers visit the China. 25 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:22,320 Speaker 3: Yes and not a pardon Michael, big chill, but the 26 00:01:22,360 --> 00:01:27,839 Speaker 3: PM doesn't pander yet. So the bilateral meeting between Australia 27 00:01:27,880 --> 00:01:34,600 Speaker 3: and China. Anthony Alberteasi and Chinese. I'm so sorry I 28 00:01:34,640 --> 00:01:37,600 Speaker 3: could keep stumbling through this, but I am having such 29 00:01:37,600 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 3: a perimonal perimedopausal. 30 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,959 Speaker 4: Right now live on air. It's so Softogen. 31 00:01:44,520 --> 00:01:46,800 Speaker 5: The point about this is that we need to make 32 00:01:46,840 --> 00:01:50,680 Speaker 5: it normal of these kinds of conversations. And I love 33 00:01:50,720 --> 00:01:54,800 Speaker 5: you for even saying it, because we interview people, we 34 00:01:54,920 --> 00:01:58,720 Speaker 5: talk to people about this, and this is the reality. 35 00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 3: I don't think respect national television. 36 00:02:02,280 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 4: It's the furthest of the sun. 37 00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:07,520 Speaker 2: That audio there thanks to ABC TV, and I do 38 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 2: have in the studio in the flesh, Imagen Crumb, I'm 39 00:02:11,919 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 2: so sorry to make you sit through that again. 40 00:02:14,520 --> 00:02:17,840 Speaker 4: It's weird to listen through. It is weird to hear it. 41 00:02:18,120 --> 00:02:21,000 Speaker 3: And it sort of flashed back to that moment when 42 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,399 Speaker 3: it was happening and trying to decide what to do. 43 00:02:25,360 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: And sort of catching yourself on the run, isn't it. 44 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:31,000 Speaker 2: Imagen is the editor of the University of Melbourne's research 45 00:02:31,160 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: news website Pursuit, and is a regular paper reviewer on 46 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:38,160 Speaker 2: the ABC, which we heard on her there. 47 00:02:38,560 --> 00:02:40,960 Speaker 1: Can I say, I. 48 00:02:40,919 --> 00:02:44,440 Speaker 2: Think what you're Can we call it a happy faux pas? 49 00:02:45,240 --> 00:02:50,399 Speaker 2: It really was a milestone moment I think in changing 50 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:56,560 Speaker 2: the narrative of perimenopause and menopause. I applaud you as 51 00:02:56,600 --> 00:03:00,839 Speaker 2: a presenter in media. No, really, because I have had 52 00:03:01,000 --> 00:03:04,639 Speaker 2: so many brain fog moments I've been on the radio 53 00:03:05,240 --> 00:03:09,920 Speaker 2: and you don't want to admit that you're having a 54 00:03:10,000 --> 00:03:14,280 Speaker 2: moment or that you're struggling for fear of being seen 55 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:19,040 Speaker 2: as weak in the workplace. What was going through your mind? Like, 56 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 2: what was happening for you at that time? 57 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:27,280 Speaker 3: Well, you know, I was thinking in bullet points, so 58 00:03:27,520 --> 00:03:33,960 Speaker 3: and it hot flushes like that happened so quickly, and 59 00:03:34,000 --> 00:03:36,200 Speaker 3: I hadn't had one for a while, so I wasn't 60 00:03:36,280 --> 00:03:40,320 Speaker 3: expecting it to happen, And you just feel this the 61 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 3: best way to describe it is it's like molten lava 62 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:48,400 Speaker 3: that just rolls up your body and it's got little 63 00:03:48,520 --> 00:03:53,600 Speaker 3: needle pricks as well, and it is so distracting and 64 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:59,040 Speaker 3: all absorbing that it's very hard to think about what else. 65 00:03:58,880 --> 00:04:02,760 Speaker 2: Is you know, body, it's zero to one hundred, zero 66 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:06,560 Speaker 2: point three of a second and it's just like spontaneous combustion. 67 00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:09,800 Speaker 2: I can't describe it any And it's like peeling clothes 68 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,640 Speaker 2: off if you're at home and just hair goes up. 69 00:04:13,280 --> 00:04:16,680 Speaker 2: Everyone just stopped talking, TV goes off. 70 00:04:16,560 --> 00:04:19,760 Speaker 3: Like everything is too much. It really is everything. It's 71 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:23,839 Speaker 3: like a sensory overlap, absolutely, and like that's the that's 72 00:04:23,880 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 3: the physical stuff. But then your brain is so focused 73 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:32,480 Speaker 3: on the physical stuff you can't think about anything else. So, 74 00:04:33,160 --> 00:04:36,080 Speaker 3: you know, I was talking about quite a serious story, 75 00:04:36,200 --> 00:04:41,400 Speaker 3: these bilateral meetings between China and Australia, massive important thing, 76 00:04:42,279 --> 00:04:47,960 Speaker 3: and I I just couldn't explain it, and I was 77 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:51,359 Speaker 3: kind of it's that I guess it must feel like 78 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,200 Speaker 3: stage fright, which I'm lucky enough not to have had. 79 00:04:54,240 --> 00:04:56,920 Speaker 3: But well, you just can't think of the next words. 80 00:04:57,760 --> 00:05:02,360 Speaker 3: And so in that moment, in that bullet point, I 81 00:05:02,520 --> 00:05:05,640 Speaker 3: was like, I just have to explain. I just have 82 00:05:05,760 --> 00:05:10,839 Speaker 3: to explain what's happening, and exactly what you said, I 83 00:05:10,880 --> 00:05:13,000 Speaker 3: don't want to look inept at my job. I'm good 84 00:05:13,080 --> 00:05:17,320 Speaker 3: at my job, so I need to provide an explanation. 85 00:05:17,560 --> 00:05:19,880 Speaker 3: And I've had a lot of women say since, well, 86 00:05:20,400 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 3: why didn't you just say you're feeling sick or why not? 87 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:27,599 Speaker 3: Not in a critical way, but just in a did 88 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:29,160 Speaker 3: it not occur to you way? 89 00:05:29,320 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 4: And I was like, I agree, I agree. 90 00:05:32,960 --> 00:05:36,120 Speaker 3: And I think in that that moment, I was like, 91 00:05:37,120 --> 00:05:38,360 Speaker 3: I'm just going to explain. 92 00:05:38,480 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 4: I'm just going to say and. 93 00:05:40,320 --> 00:05:44,000 Speaker 3: I will also say, you know, kudos to Lisa and Michael, 94 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,200 Speaker 3: particularly Lisa, and I think that was part of it. 95 00:05:48,520 --> 00:05:51,400 Speaker 3: I've been doing the paper reviews for quite a while 96 00:05:51,960 --> 00:05:55,200 Speaker 3: and I guess I kind of felt safe enough absolutely 97 00:05:55,279 --> 00:05:56,960 Speaker 3: to say it totally forgetting about that. 98 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 2: You got that trust on it and it's so important, 99 00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 2: and for me as a presenter, I thought it was 100 00:06:03,920 --> 00:06:05,360 Speaker 2: actually quite a beautiful thing. 101 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: It was a beautiful thing. 102 00:06:07,640 --> 00:06:11,080 Speaker 2: And how they both rallied behind it rally and this 103 00:06:11,160 --> 00:06:14,800 Speaker 2: is what we need to do. HCF The Health Fund 104 00:06:14,839 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 2: has done a really interesting recent survey on perimenopause and 105 00:06:19,160 --> 00:06:22,320 Speaker 2: the impacts on the workplace. More than one in three 106 00:06:22,480 --> 00:06:25,320 Speaker 2: Aussie women over the age of forty five say The 107 00:06:25,360 --> 00:06:28,159 Speaker 2: main areas are concern are that they feel it could 108 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:32,599 Speaker 2: have a negative impact on the perception of women's productivity 109 00:06:32,800 --> 00:06:36,080 Speaker 2: or performance in the workplace. Three and ten thirty percent 110 00:06:36,240 --> 00:06:39,839 Speaker 2: are concerned that their colleagues or managers may think that 111 00:06:39,880 --> 00:06:43,000 Speaker 2: they can't do their job properly if they let them 112 00:06:43,080 --> 00:06:46,760 Speaker 2: know they were struggling because of the symptoms. 113 00:06:46,920 --> 00:06:47,479 Speaker 4: That's real. 114 00:06:47,839 --> 00:06:52,279 Speaker 2: So when we're pregnant and we have horrific morning sickness, 115 00:06:52,600 --> 00:06:55,880 Speaker 2: we're not afraid to say, hey, can't come in today, 116 00:06:56,120 --> 00:07:00,640 Speaker 2: put my head down the toilet. I think we need 117 00:07:00,680 --> 00:07:03,240 Speaker 2: to change the narrative, and doing what you did on 118 00:07:03,320 --> 00:07:06,640 Speaker 2: the ABC is helping to do that. We need to 119 00:07:06,760 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 2: talk about it, we need to normalize it totally. 120 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,840 Speaker 3: And you know, it is kind of flumming saying why 121 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 3: it's so taboo. I mean, I guess with pregnancy, you know, 122 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:22,360 Speaker 3: it's so physically obvious that that you are with child 123 00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:28,280 Speaker 3: and all those associated symptoms, and I think with perimenopause 124 00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 3: it's more subtle and it's more sneaky. And you know, people, 125 00:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,480 Speaker 3: a lot of these these women, most women who are 126 00:07:40,480 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 3: going through it, are kind of at the peak of 127 00:07:43,240 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 3: their careers, right, so they've reached a point where they're 128 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:51,080 Speaker 3: competent and they're confident, and they're potentially in really quite 129 00:07:51,160 --> 00:07:55,200 Speaker 3: powerful positions all these decades to get to the play 130 00:07:55,800 --> 00:08:02,240 Speaker 3: and so to then be undermine, yes, by their hormones. 131 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:05,800 Speaker 3: And it's not by their hormones, it's by other people's 132 00:08:05,880 --> 00:08:09,480 Speaker 3: judgment of their hormones that that they might think they're 133 00:08:09,520 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 3: inept or bad at their jobs because of a you know, 134 00:08:15,440 --> 00:08:18,200 Speaker 3: two to twenty five second hot flush. 135 00:08:19,240 --> 00:08:22,000 Speaker 4: Is just seems so weird, right. 136 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:26,760 Speaker 2: The stigma is, I don't know why. Why is there 137 00:08:26,800 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 2: a stigma? It's a natural bodily process, as is menstruating 138 00:08:30,960 --> 00:08:32,559 Speaker 2: and pregnancy, childbirth. 139 00:08:32,640 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: Yep, I don't I don't get it. 140 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 3: I don't know. There must be there must be a 141 00:08:39,480 --> 00:08:44,760 Speaker 3: historical reason or a societal reason that you know, I've 142 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:46,880 Speaker 3: had a whole lot of women getting in touch with me, 143 00:08:46,920 --> 00:08:51,959 Speaker 3: which has been amazing, referring to us as the hag witches, 144 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:55,320 Speaker 3: which I quite like. I don't mind being a hag witch. 145 00:08:55,880 --> 00:09:02,160 Speaker 3: But I guess there must be something cultural societally where 146 00:09:02,679 --> 00:09:07,160 Speaker 3: menopause is seen as something bad and it's you know, 147 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:09,400 Speaker 3: it's probably tied up in women's aging. 148 00:09:09,520 --> 00:09:13,199 Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, sh shove you into the top paddic and 149 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 2: you're top part. 150 00:09:16,200 --> 00:09:19,200 Speaker 1: You're not good to us anymore, you can't procreate. Off 151 00:09:19,240 --> 00:09:21,680 Speaker 1: you go and live out your days in the top paddic. 152 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 2: Yeah, more than three and five more HCF stats, more 153 00:09:25,559 --> 00:09:28,360 Speaker 2: than three and five sixty two percent of those workings. 154 00:09:28,360 --> 00:09:31,120 Speaker 2: So they would have concerns about it being discussed more 155 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,800 Speaker 2: if conversations were normalized, with those working full time much 156 00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:39,199 Speaker 2: more likely than those working part time to cite their 157 00:09:39,240 --> 00:09:42,840 Speaker 2: colleagues managers potentially thinking that they can't do their job. 158 00:09:43,400 --> 00:09:48,880 Speaker 3: Oh that's so yeah, so frustrating. And you know these 159 00:09:48,920 --> 00:09:56,679 Speaker 3: are these are judgments where as women are making about 160 00:09:56,679 --> 00:10:01,640 Speaker 3: ourselves as well, Like we're taught to keep storm on 161 00:10:01,679 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 3: this and I don't know, it's so subtle how we're 162 00:10:07,920 --> 00:10:13,520 Speaker 3: influenced not to talk about it, and I genuinely don't 163 00:10:13,520 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 3: know why. 164 00:10:14,400 --> 00:10:14,600 Speaker 4: It's. 165 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:19,439 Speaker 3: Yes, it's crap for a lot of women to experience, 166 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:27,480 Speaker 3: and it is discombobulating and disconcerting and bouncy and it 167 00:10:27,480 --> 00:10:33,880 Speaker 3: can be distressing, but we've kind of imposed some silence 168 00:10:33,920 --> 00:10:38,599 Speaker 3: on ourselves. And you know, I think there's obviously societal 169 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,200 Speaker 3: pressures and all sorts of things, and I'm sure someone 170 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:47,040 Speaker 3: out there is yelling the patriarchy, but it's also something 171 00:10:47,559 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 3: we're doing to ourselves by keeping quiet on and there 172 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:55,880 Speaker 3: has to be a change in that conversation. 173 00:10:56,080 --> 00:10:58,560 Speaker 4: And I feel like that change is happening. 174 00:10:58,800 --> 00:11:01,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think the ship is turning, but it's going 175 00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:02,559 Speaker 2: to take a while. 176 00:11:02,640 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 4: Let's not be the. 177 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:07,120 Speaker 1: Titanic and hit the eyes. It's funny to say that. 178 00:11:07,200 --> 00:11:10,120 Speaker 2: I was at a lunch recently and I was telling 179 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,480 Speaker 2: a group of women over their fifties about the podcast. 180 00:11:14,160 --> 00:11:16,760 Speaker 2: Of them were really passionate. You know, it was like 181 00:11:17,840 --> 00:11:20,480 Speaker 2: bees to honey. When I heard what I was talking about, 182 00:11:20,640 --> 00:11:21,720 Speaker 2: that's all relief. 183 00:11:21,840 --> 00:11:22,080 Speaker 5: Yeah. 184 00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:24,160 Speaker 2: They all had a story, and I said to a 185 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:26,319 Speaker 2: couple of them, I would love to have you on 186 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:29,800 Speaker 2: my podcast. One of them said, and quite a well 187 00:11:29,840 --> 00:11:33,360 Speaker 2: known person said, oh no, I couldn't do that. And 188 00:11:33,440 --> 00:11:37,520 Speaker 2: I respected that obviously because it's personal. But why can't 189 00:11:37,760 --> 00:11:38,920 Speaker 2: Did you have a reason? 190 00:11:39,240 --> 00:11:40,440 Speaker 1: Did I think it was. 191 00:11:40,679 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 2: She wouldn't be seen as being what she marketed herself 192 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:47,800 Speaker 2: as abbs. But that's why I want to do it, 193 00:11:47,880 --> 00:11:52,400 Speaker 2: because I really pride myself on being real and being authentic, 194 00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:56,080 Speaker 2: and if I'm going to do it, I need to 195 00:11:56,120 --> 00:12:00,400 Speaker 2: share as well and hopefully by me sharing if. 196 00:12:00,240 --> 00:12:03,200 Speaker 4: It just hits a note, well, I think it's brilliant one. 197 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:08,040 Speaker 2: Other woman and saying hey, it's okay's absolutely about this. 198 00:12:08,160 --> 00:12:12,240 Speaker 2: Let's open the conversation, sort of create this community of support, 199 00:12:12,760 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 2: a network of support. 200 00:12:14,640 --> 00:12:16,240 Speaker 1: Then I will have achieved. 201 00:12:16,240 --> 00:12:16,680 Speaker 4: What I said. 202 00:12:16,679 --> 00:12:21,680 Speaker 3: Absolutely, and I think you're gonna genuinely not just help 203 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:24,320 Speaker 3: a lot of women, but a lot of men. You know, 204 00:12:24,679 --> 00:12:28,640 Speaker 3: I think one of the things I've found after this 205 00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:35,280 Speaker 3: is the reaction I had has been genuinely amazing. Yes, 206 00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,679 Speaker 3: the support has been amazing, and that's not just from women. 207 00:12:40,160 --> 00:12:44,720 Speaker 3: That's from blokes as well, saying, oh, you know, I 208 00:12:44,760 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 3: shared this with my wife to let her know she's 209 00:12:47,280 --> 00:12:51,760 Speaker 3: not alone, or this started a conversation with my teenage 210 00:12:51,920 --> 00:12:55,439 Speaker 3: daughters who didn't even know that perrymanopause was a thing. 211 00:12:55,559 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 3: I mean I didn't when I was a teenager. 212 00:12:57,320 --> 00:12:57,960 Speaker 1: You've just given me. 213 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:02,240 Speaker 2: Goose bumps, because if anything of what happened on the ABC, 214 00:13:02,520 --> 00:13:04,440 Speaker 2: that is the best measure. 215 00:13:04,760 --> 00:13:06,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, what you've done. 216 00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,960 Speaker 2: I hope you realize the enormity of what you've done 217 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:12,440 Speaker 2: to the argument. No you have, don't shake your head. 218 00:13:12,480 --> 00:13:15,360 Speaker 2: You really have talking about the younger generation. I have 219 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,680 Speaker 2: a daughter, you have a daughter in your teens. I 220 00:13:18,720 --> 00:13:21,640 Speaker 2: also hope to achieve with this and talking about it 221 00:13:21,800 --> 00:13:25,520 Speaker 2: in making hopefully their path down the track that little 222 00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:30,120 Speaker 2: bit easier. Agreed, it's a huge legacy. I think that 223 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,560 Speaker 2: we can that we can leave. Have you had the 224 00:13:31,559 --> 00:13:34,480 Speaker 2: conversation with your daughter, she's like fifteen sixteen now. 225 00:13:34,679 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 4: She does not care. 226 00:13:39,240 --> 00:13:43,000 Speaker 3: About anything other than her friends, than her phone. 227 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:44,320 Speaker 1: Well, she's a normal teenager. 228 00:13:44,480 --> 00:13:47,880 Speaker 3: She's totally a normal teenager. I mean, I guess, And 229 00:13:48,280 --> 00:13:50,679 Speaker 3: you know, I've had cause to think about it a 230 00:13:50,720 --> 00:13:56,880 Speaker 3: lot since that moment or the ABC, and I don't 231 00:13:56,920 --> 00:13:59,560 Speaker 3: know whether it came from my mum. So I lost 232 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:03,600 Speaker 3: my mum very early. Sorry no no, it was years ago. 233 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 3: But she didn't make it to perimenopause or menopause, and 234 00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:15,959 Speaker 3: so when my symptoms started, I was genuinely terrified. Well 235 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:18,719 Speaker 3: I had no idea what was going on. And when 236 00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:21,600 Speaker 3: I first went to the doctor and the doctor said 237 00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 3: the word perry menopause to me, I was like, I'm 238 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,680 Speaker 3: awfully sorry, but I think you. 239 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:35,400 Speaker 4: Have me confused with someone else. Yes, I'm forty two 240 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:40,000 Speaker 4: this and what is the pery thing? Because I've heard 241 00:14:40,000 --> 00:14:40,600 Speaker 4: of menopause. 242 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:45,000 Speaker 3: CAD was the pery thing, and so that's kind of 243 00:14:45,040 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 3: when it all started. And from there, I've been very 244 00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:54,720 Speaker 3: upfront about it with my family. 245 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:57,880 Speaker 4: Like literally coming home and going, have you guys heard 246 00:14:57,880 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 4: of peri menopause? I've got that. 247 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:06,000 Speaker 3: And then, as you know, it's a massive collection of 248 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:09,080 Speaker 3: symptoms and it varies from. 249 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,480 Speaker 4: Woman to woman. It can be totally different. 250 00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:14,520 Speaker 2: Oh crazy, what's the craziest symptom you've got? 251 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:15,160 Speaker 1: Do you think. 252 00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:17,840 Speaker 4: Sore gums? 253 00:15:18,480 --> 00:15:19,000 Speaker 1: Wow? 254 00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 3: Really well, actually I take that back, because the first 255 00:15:24,760 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 3: thing I went to the doctor about I'm going to 256 00:15:26,920 --> 00:15:29,120 Speaker 3: have to try and not to laugh. The first thing 257 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,320 Speaker 3: I went to the doctor about when I was forty 258 00:15:31,360 --> 00:15:37,040 Speaker 3: two was because I've lived my life with dead straight 259 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 3: hair and at the age of forty two, my hair 260 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:45,960 Speaker 3: started going curly. That's insane, right, And so I said 261 00:15:45,960 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 3: to my hairdresser, what are you doing different? Let's not 262 00:15:49,840 --> 00:15:53,640 Speaker 3: layer so much at this, but I was saying, is 263 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:55,880 Speaker 3: that do you know why it's going curly? And he 264 00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:59,160 Speaker 3: was like, oh, I might be hormones, and I was like, 265 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:03,480 Speaker 3: for real, anyway, Obviously talking to pregnant mates. 266 00:16:03,160 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 4: About how their hair changed. 267 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:12,640 Speaker 3: And in puberty, one of my cousins went from having 268 00:16:12,800 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 3: straight hair to curly hair in puberty. So I went 269 00:16:17,080 --> 00:16:20,640 Speaker 3: to the doctor going, what is getting curly hair? A 270 00:16:20,720 --> 00:16:25,600 Speaker 3: symptom of wow, So that was my first symptom. It 271 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,160 Speaker 3: was kind of going, this is a weird change. But 272 00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:32,360 Speaker 3: just getting back to your other question and sort of 273 00:16:32,400 --> 00:16:35,160 Speaker 3: being open and how I talked to my teenager about it. 274 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 3: So I was kind of really open about it with 275 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:44,680 Speaker 3: my husband and my kids and my extended family. And 276 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:50,080 Speaker 3: then that in turn has made my fifteen year old 277 00:16:50,520 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 3: really quite so much more upfront than I ever was 278 00:16:54,840 --> 00:17:01,320 Speaker 3: about puberty. Like she asks stuff, and you know, so 279 00:17:01,600 --> 00:17:05,920 Speaker 3: now she's getting to know what happens at the other end. 280 00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 3: I mean, it's slightly unfortunate for my husband that he's 281 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 3: got a puberty ridden teenager and a penny perimenopause or 282 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:15,119 Speaker 3: sweaty woman. 283 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:16,280 Speaker 1: Yeah, isn't it. 284 00:17:16,280 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: It's kind of ironic, is like our daughters kind of 285 00:17:19,520 --> 00:17:23,680 Speaker 2: started and I'm sort of finishing, and Chris is kind 286 00:17:23,720 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: of like caught in the middle of the cyclone. 287 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:30,959 Speaker 1: It's but I love that you. I think we do 288 00:17:31,080 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: have a role. 289 00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 2: As women in passing on the bat and I think 290 00:17:34,080 --> 00:17:39,639 Speaker 2: anything we can do to discuss and normalize. It is great. 291 00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:41,280 Speaker 2: One of my weird symptoms. 292 00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:42,680 Speaker 4: I was going to ask you yours. 293 00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:46,120 Speaker 2: It's so bizarre. I thought I had like an ear infection. 294 00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:50,640 Speaker 2: I've got dermatitis in my ears, which just inside your ear, 295 00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:53,080 Speaker 2: inside my ears, and it's dry. 296 00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: Well it's it's the ear going to so it's like 297 00:17:56,600 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: not so much. 298 00:17:57,160 --> 00:17:59,600 Speaker 2: A lot of women get itchy's skin of mine seems 299 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:03,359 Speaker 2: to be around both my ears and it's so odd. 300 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,360 Speaker 2: I went to my GP and he said, I think 301 00:18:05,400 --> 00:18:06,720 Speaker 2: you need gromets. 302 00:18:07,080 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 4: I remember grommet and I. 303 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,160 Speaker 1: Said no, sorry, I'm not a toddler. 304 00:18:11,880 --> 00:18:14,080 Speaker 2: And I said no, sorry, I don't think I'll be 305 00:18:14,080 --> 00:18:14,920 Speaker 2: getting romets. 306 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,560 Speaker 1: And he so we ears are actually quite bad, and 307 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:18,399 Speaker 1: I say, yeah, I know. I'm living with it, so 308 00:18:18,440 --> 00:18:19,840 Speaker 1: I'm really trying to persist with it. 309 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:22,400 Speaker 4: What are you doing for it? Not much? Okay? 310 00:18:22,520 --> 00:18:25,000 Speaker 1: You know what is good is swimming in the sea. 311 00:18:25,040 --> 00:18:28,000 Speaker 4: Oh yeah, seawater. Saltwater fixes everything. 312 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:31,600 Speaker 3: I I feel that too, and I get like winds 313 00:18:33,760 --> 00:18:36,439 Speaker 3: like that makes a slightly more hag witchy that we 314 00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:43,240 Speaker 3: want to chuck ourselves in the seaweed all over. So yeah, 315 00:18:43,320 --> 00:18:47,159 Speaker 3: there is so many weird ones and like the research 316 00:18:47,280 --> 00:18:50,560 Speaker 3: going on is actually adding to those symptoms of that 317 00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,120 Speaker 3: list of symptoms all the time, because they are vast 318 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,600 Speaker 3: and they are varied, and you're not gonna, I don't 319 00:18:57,640 --> 00:18:58,720 Speaker 3: want to terrify anyone. 320 00:18:58,760 --> 00:19:01,080 Speaker 4: You're not going to get all of them, No, hopefully 321 00:19:01,119 --> 00:19:01,720 Speaker 4: not no. 322 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:06,439 Speaker 3: But you know there are some really unexpected ones with 323 00:19:06,600 --> 00:19:12,240 Speaker 3: skin changes, like you're talking about eyesight changes, hearing changes, yes, 324 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:17,600 Speaker 3: even taste changes. So there's all sorts of things that 325 00:19:17,800 --> 00:19:22,639 Speaker 3: we're still finding out. I mean, perimenopause and menopause hasn't 326 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,439 Speaker 3: really been something that has had a whole lot of 327 00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:32,280 Speaker 3: investment over the humanity's research history, but it is getting 328 00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:36,520 Speaker 3: more now and as they research it more and more 329 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:41,080 Speaker 3: and more, they are finding out so many things that 330 00:19:41,560 --> 00:19:47,879 Speaker 3: are associated with perimenopause and menopause that hadn't been linked before. So, 331 00:19:48,520 --> 00:19:52,320 Speaker 3: you know, I think there is a sea change, and 332 00:19:53,119 --> 00:19:55,639 Speaker 3: I do also think I have a theory it's like 333 00:19:55,680 --> 00:20:00,520 Speaker 3: your saltwater theory. I think it's also our age group 334 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:06,040 Speaker 3: aging up. I think we're sorry boomers, but we're less 335 00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:12,800 Speaker 3: prudish and we're more likely to be open about things. 336 00:20:12,920 --> 00:20:15,080 Speaker 3: And so I think a whole lot of gen X 337 00:20:15,200 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 3: women are God, dare I say it? Millennials are now 338 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:25,280 Speaker 3: hitting you know, perimenopause menopause age, and they're being more 339 00:20:25,359 --> 00:20:26,119 Speaker 3: vocal about it. 340 00:20:26,320 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 4: They're not hiding away. 341 00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:30,160 Speaker 2: No, we don't need to that's for sure. Oh that's 342 00:20:30,160 --> 00:20:32,480 Speaker 2: what I was going to ask you. Are you taking 343 00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 2: anything for your minopause? Like how if you are? At 344 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:38,880 Speaker 2: what point did you say no, I need something. 345 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:44,440 Speaker 3: I am taking HRT now and I have been on 346 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:51,120 Speaker 3: it for gosh. It started in one of the many lockdowns, 347 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:57,520 Speaker 3: was where it just got too much for me, and 348 00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:02,159 Speaker 3: so I went a lot and had a consultation. And 349 00:21:02,280 --> 00:21:08,800 Speaker 3: my big worry about HRT was the link reported link 350 00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:13,400 Speaker 3: to breast cancer. Now, that link comes from a two 351 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 3: thousand and two study, So think about how old that 352 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:20,600 Speaker 3: is for a second. It's it's it's real old. It's now, 353 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:27,760 Speaker 3: and that link was originally. I don't want to defame anyone, 354 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:32,879 Speaker 3: but following research has found that that link was overstated. 355 00:21:33,840 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 3: So yes, HRT does come with this minimal risk of 356 00:21:40,240 --> 00:21:43,800 Speaker 3: increased risk of breast cancer, but not the original risk 357 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 3: they said. So A, I think a lot of women 358 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 3: are scared of HRT because it's got this reputation that 359 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 3: isn't deserved, and HRT has come on a really long 360 00:21:57,440 --> 00:22:00,240 Speaker 3: way since two thousand and too. 361 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:02,960 Speaker 4: So I went. 362 00:22:02,840 --> 00:22:07,480 Speaker 3: And had this consultation, and you know, it is worth 363 00:22:07,520 --> 00:22:10,679 Speaker 3: saying not all women can take our HRT. 364 00:22:10,920 --> 00:22:14,440 Speaker 4: They're not able to. Yeah, exactly, it's individual. 365 00:22:15,240 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 3: So it's trial and error. You work out what dosage works, 366 00:22:21,200 --> 00:22:26,720 Speaker 3: anything like anything exactly. And then so I was good 367 00:22:26,840 --> 00:22:31,159 Speaker 3: for about eighteen months or so when I found my 368 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:37,840 Speaker 3: perfect equilibrium of estrogen patches and a marina which also 369 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 3: releases progesterone. 370 00:22:39,280 --> 00:22:44,479 Speaker 4: Yes, and then supply chain shortages hit this. 371 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:50,919 Speaker 3: Yes. So there is a massive supply chain issue with HRT, 372 00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:58,400 Speaker 3: particularly the patches. So what has happened is there's manufacturing issues. 373 00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:01,920 Speaker 3: There's I don't want to call them ingredients, what would 374 00:23:01,960 --> 00:23:05,760 Speaker 3: you call it? Whatever they are ingredients, what goes into it? Yeah, 375 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:08,399 Speaker 3: stuff that goes into so shortage is there. But then 376 00:23:08,440 --> 00:23:12,760 Speaker 3: there's also supply chain issues so getting things from day Yeah, 377 00:23:13,160 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 3: So I went the day I found out, I went 378 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:20,399 Speaker 3: to eight pharmacists going do you have HIT, do you 379 00:23:20,440 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 3: have AHLT? None of them had my milligram, and so 380 00:23:24,920 --> 00:23:27,360 Speaker 3: I called my lovely GP and I was like, well 381 00:23:27,359 --> 00:23:30,680 Speaker 3: what do I do? And he said, look, you can 382 00:23:31,160 --> 00:23:34,919 Speaker 3: go on to the estrogen gel, but it's not like 383 00:23:35,000 --> 00:23:36,800 Speaker 3: for like you're going to have to go back through 384 00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:40,040 Speaker 3: the trial and error. So I'd been doing that for 385 00:23:40,119 --> 00:23:44,880 Speaker 3: probably six weeks before that moment on the ABC, and 386 00:23:44,960 --> 00:23:48,880 Speaker 3: I had not got it right. So I was getting 387 00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:52,639 Speaker 3: stuff again. I was getting more brain fog. I was 388 00:23:52,680 --> 00:23:54,840 Speaker 3: getting the hot night sweats. 389 00:23:55,080 --> 00:23:59,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, insomnia, insomnia. I wake up in the morning if 390 00:23:59,640 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 2: I've had a bad night. It's not every night, but 391 00:24:02,640 --> 00:24:06,160 Speaker 2: I obviously get up early for the show three o'clock. 392 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:10,520 Speaker 2: And when you haven't slept, and it's just an exhaustion 393 00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:14,199 Speaker 2: all day. And it's not like you can say to 394 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:16,920 Speaker 2: your family, I'm just going to clock out. Of course 395 00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,160 Speaker 2: you can, but you there's stuff that needs to be done. 396 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:25,160 Speaker 2: When your mum and employee, and you know you've got 397 00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,280 Speaker 2: elderly parents who are rowing on you as well. It's 398 00:24:28,280 --> 00:24:30,560 Speaker 2: not like you can just tap out all the time. 399 00:24:30,840 --> 00:24:34,480 Speaker 2: I know, sadly, it's just debilitating some day. 400 00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:36,680 Speaker 3: There's no nap pod for you. No, there's not a 401 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:39,960 Speaker 3: pod that you can shut yourself up in. No, And 402 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:44,240 Speaker 3: I think you know that's the It's such a juggle, 403 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,640 Speaker 3: it's such a juggle, and you know, I'm the same 404 00:24:47,680 --> 00:24:47,919 Speaker 3: as you. 405 00:24:48,000 --> 00:24:50,880 Speaker 4: I've got kids, I've got a job, I've got older. 406 00:24:50,640 --> 00:24:56,280 Speaker 3: Dad, and there's a lot of sort of push me 407 00:24:56,359 --> 00:25:00,359 Speaker 3: pull us that happen. And when you chuck hormone on 408 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:05,840 Speaker 3: top of that, it can be so genuinely distressing. And 409 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:12,480 Speaker 3: I think, what you know, we've talked about here the 410 00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,680 Speaker 3: physical effects of perimenopause and menopause, but then there are 411 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:18,920 Speaker 3: the mental effects and they're. 412 00:25:18,760 --> 00:25:21,000 Speaker 4: Really real as well. 413 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:24,879 Speaker 3: So a lot of women struggle with anxiety or depression 414 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:32,639 Speaker 3: or terrible mood swings. My favorite furious, red rage anger 415 00:25:32,720 --> 00:25:36,159 Speaker 3: moment that I can now look at objectively, but at 416 00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,840 Speaker 3: the time I couldn't was sitting on a train and 417 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:47,960 Speaker 3: to my mind, the doors were closing too loud, right, 418 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,000 Speaker 3: And the narrative I had, yeah, the narrative I had 419 00:25:53,080 --> 00:25:56,040 Speaker 3: in my head, and I won't swear. My narrative was 420 00:25:56,240 --> 00:26:00,960 Speaker 3: very sweary, was how can we put. 421 00:26:01,280 --> 00:26:04,360 Speaker 4: A man on the moon fifty. 422 00:26:04,080 --> 00:26:08,280 Speaker 3: Years ago, sixty years ago, and we still can't make 423 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 3: train doors close? Quite? 424 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:09,679 Speaker 5: Like? 425 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:14,399 Speaker 3: I was furious, so true, be curious, yes, And then 426 00:26:14,440 --> 00:26:16,800 Speaker 3: I hopped off the train, and you know, maybe a 427 00:26:16,800 --> 00:26:19,639 Speaker 3: couple of days went by and I looked back on 428 00:26:19,680 --> 00:26:23,879 Speaker 3: it and I was like, what what was that about. 429 00:26:24,160 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like a check, a self check. Yeah, you 430 00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,760 Speaker 1: can't help it, you can't, you can't help it. 431 00:26:28,960 --> 00:26:31,919 Speaker 2: No, I've had periods of like that as well with 432 00:26:32,080 --> 00:26:35,520 Speaker 2: my family, where I've just snapped and you feel so awful. 433 00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:36,479 Speaker 4: Then there's guilt. 434 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:39,439 Speaker 2: There's so much guilt, and you think, I've got to 435 00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:40,360 Speaker 2: do better than this. 436 00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:44,120 Speaker 1: But it's just I know, softly as she goes. 437 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:49,680 Speaker 4: Yeah, and also you know the guilt stuff. 438 00:26:50,040 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 3: You know, we do need to treat ourselves a bit 439 00:26:53,040 --> 00:26:58,560 Speaker 3: more kindly, like we really I don't know about you, actually, 440 00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:01,920 Speaker 3: I can probably guess. We do expect to be able 441 00:27:01,960 --> 00:27:09,479 Speaker 3: to do everything every single fee time. And when you know, 442 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:11,919 Speaker 3: in a way, perimenopause and menopause gives you a bit 443 00:27:11,960 --> 00:27:14,199 Speaker 3: of a wake up call that you you kind of 444 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,439 Speaker 3: can't and you've got to take care of yourself a 445 00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:21,280 Speaker 3: bit better than you did in your twenties and your thirties, 446 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 3: and potentially you're. 447 00:27:22,080 --> 00:27:26,160 Speaker 1: Just second forget anymore. And then it's like, oh, my. 448 00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 4: Knees, my knee asleep. 449 00:27:30,960 --> 00:27:33,760 Speaker 1: Going on with that. So what have you found that's 450 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:35,600 Speaker 1: helped you? Obviously, the patches. 451 00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:39,680 Speaker 3: They really helped me. The other thing I've found brilliantly 452 00:27:39,800 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 3: helpful is a sympathetic doctor. Yes, is just being able 453 00:27:45,240 --> 00:27:47,680 Speaker 3: to go in and say feel heard. 454 00:27:48,080 --> 00:27:51,000 Speaker 4: Yeah, this sucks, you know. 455 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,800 Speaker 3: I know we've done everything we can with HRT, and 456 00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:02,720 Speaker 3: you know, all that common sensical stuff like exercise and 457 00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:06,520 Speaker 3: diet and whatever, and not drinking too much although we 458 00:28:06,520 --> 00:28:13,760 Speaker 3: were a lot of class, but just having an amone 459 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:15,840 Speaker 3: as well antir mates. 460 00:28:16,160 --> 00:28:21,119 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's really important. Supporting your girlfriends and 461 00:28:21,760 --> 00:28:25,719 Speaker 2: being open to being real and supporting one another. I 462 00:28:25,760 --> 00:28:29,320 Speaker 2: find that's the greatest support. I agree, well, I agree 463 00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:30,919 Speaker 2: to my girlfriends. 464 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:35,800 Speaker 3: And I think I do remember, you know, I've got 465 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 3: a lovely mixed bunch of really old mates, men and 466 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:42,360 Speaker 3: women who have known for a really long time. And 467 00:28:42,440 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 3: I do remember being a dead dinner party after my 468 00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:49,840 Speaker 3: hair went curly and one of my male mates said, 469 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:54,520 Speaker 3: have you got a per and I was like, no, 470 00:28:54,720 --> 00:28:58,920 Speaker 3: it's Perry menopause, And there was a lot of eyebrows up. 471 00:28:59,200 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 4: There was a lot of oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoah. 472 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:08,480 Speaker 3: But it's interesting, I would say, over the last five years, 473 00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:11,320 Speaker 3: So how do I now forty nine? So I've had 474 00:29:11,320 --> 00:29:14,120 Speaker 3: it for seven years, so maybe over the last five years. 475 00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,720 Speaker 4: They're much more open about it too, and they have questions. 476 00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:20,520 Speaker 1: That's great. 477 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:26,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, and all of them too. Our men got in 478 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:30,160 Speaker 3: touch after the ABC moment, going this is great. 479 00:29:30,400 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: Yeah. 480 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 4: Oh, and I'm so glad you did it. Yeah. Not 481 00:29:33,320 --> 00:29:35,800 Speaker 4: that I had a choice, you know, really at the 482 00:29:35,840 --> 00:29:36,600 Speaker 4: moment you. 483 00:29:36,560 --> 00:29:39,960 Speaker 1: Did, because a lot of women would have just soldiers. 484 00:29:40,080 --> 00:29:40,400 Speaker 4: Sorry. 485 00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:45,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, So no, you did have a choice, and bless you. 486 00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 2: The choice you made, which was to be honest and real. 487 00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,160 Speaker 2: And like I say, you've helped so much in changing 488 00:29:52,160 --> 00:29:54,960 Speaker 2: the narrative. And you know what, it's also given me 489 00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:58,280 Speaker 2: a flag to you know what, I need to be 490 00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:01,720 Speaker 2: more honest. It's a check for my self as someone 491 00:30:01,760 --> 00:30:02,640 Speaker 2: in the media of. 492 00:30:03,920 --> 00:30:06,320 Speaker 1: You know, I can go further in being honest. 493 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,600 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm having brain fog, which is really quite often 494 00:30:09,680 --> 00:30:10,760 Speaker 2: someday me too. 495 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:13,840 Speaker 1: So thank you so much, and thank you for your time. 496 00:30:14,320 --> 00:30:16,440 Speaker 4: Loved being here, Thank you for having me. 497 00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 2: That was imag And Crump, journalist and editor of the 498 00:30:19,520 --> 00:30:24,680 Speaker 2: University of Melbourne's research news website Pursuit. Touching on menopause 499 00:30:24,800 --> 00:30:28,760 Speaker 2: in the workplace, We explore that further in this series now, 500 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:31,880 Speaker 2: Episode four needs very little introduction as I welcome into 501 00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:34,040 Speaker 2: the studio Ozzie author Kaz Cook. 502 00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,600 Speaker 1: We're all familiar with her bestseller Up the Duve. 503 00:30:36,960 --> 00:30:40,840 Speaker 2: Now she's lent her laugh out loud signature style to. 504 00:30:40,880 --> 00:30:41,840 Speaker 1: It's the Menopause. 505 00:30:42,080 --> 00:30:45,240 Speaker 2: Get the lowdown in this next installment of Rage Against 506 00:30:45,240 --> 00:30:50,920 Speaker 2: the Menopause. I'm Patrini Jons and thanks for listening.