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Speaker 1: In our service. Life in the Northern Territory will be

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Speaker 1: a key focus of the Royal Commission as it starts

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Speaker 1: its seventh hearing block in Darwin today. Now joining me

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Speaker 1: in the studio is Royal Commissioner Peggy Brown. Good morning

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Speaker 1: to you.

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Speaker 2: Good morning now, doctor Brown.

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Speaker 1: I understand that you have been here in the Northern

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Speaker 1: Territory for a few days ahead of the hearings getting underway.

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Speaker 1: Who have you been meeting with?

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Speaker 2: Well, we've met with a range of people so far.

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Speaker 2: It's been terrific. We've done a round table looking at

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Speaker 2: NORFOCE and understanding better how they work. We've had several

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Speaker 2: days of private sessions meeting one on one with people

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Speaker 2: who have been impacted by the issue of defense in

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Speaker 2: veteran suicide. We had the opportunity to go to the

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Speaker 2: mad Stake Cafe. Last week, we had a visit out

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Speaker 2: to Larachia Barracks and hmas Kinawara and a trip out

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Speaker 2: on a patrol boat and talking to some of the

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Speaker 2: sailors about their experience of life in the Defense Force.

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Speaker 2: And yesterday we had the opportunity to go down and

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Speaker 2: visit Tindle, the Wrath Base and to see what life

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Speaker 2: is like down there working and living in Catherine.

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Speaker 1: And how important is it to get out there to

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Speaker 1: some of those different locations, but also into some of

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Speaker 1: those more informal settings and genuinely hear from territorials about

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Speaker 1: their experiences.

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Speaker 2: Oh look, it's so important. I mean for us to

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Speaker 2: actually really understand what life is like for someone in

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Speaker 2: the Defense Force and their families. And families are very important.

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Speaker 2: It really helps us to get the picture of what

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Speaker 2: life is like, and particularly in those more remote locations,

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Speaker 2: and you know, particularly this time of the year, understanding

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Speaker 2: the heat, the distance, the isolation, et cetera. It's just

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Speaker 2: very insightful for us.

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Speaker 1: Now, what is the process as those hearings get under

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Speaker 1: way today?

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Speaker 2: Yep, Well, the hearings are held here in Darwin. We're

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Speaker 2: sitting until Thursday of next week and anyone is able

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Speaker 2: to come and view the hearings if they wish to.

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Speaker 2: But the process essentially is that we commissioners listen to

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Speaker 2: the evidence that's presented from a range of witnesses. They

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Speaker 2: are led by counsel and so we hear in great

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Speaker 2: detail a lot of subjects discussed.

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Speaker 1: Dr Brown, what are some of the things that you

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Speaker 1: have heard in traveling around the nation and has there

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Speaker 1: been anything that has been a surprise to you or

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Speaker 1: you know, really quite concerning from your perspective.

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Speaker 2: Well, I have to say there's certainly been a lot

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Speaker 2: that's been concerning. I mean, we've heard an enormous amount

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Speaker 2: of distress from this community and you know, certainly no

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Speaker 2: doubt in our minds that that's what was driving the

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Speaker 2: calls for a royal commission. We've heard a lot about DVA,

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Speaker 2: and in our recent interim report we made recommendations about

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Speaker 2: urgent changes needed in relation to the legislation that DVA

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Speaker 2: operates under and in relation to their claims processing and

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Speaker 2: particularly the backlog. So that that was that's been a

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Speaker 2: really key issue. But we've heard issues also about defense,

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Speaker 2: particularly around the culture of defense and the transition process

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Speaker 2: that comes up over and over again. So there's a

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Speaker 2: lot of issues there that we think are very relevant

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Speaker 2: to the issue of suicide and suicidality.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, we've spoken to Sam Western yesterday from the Mad

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Speaker 1: Snake Cafe, and I know that you guys have been

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Speaker 1: out there to see him and other veterans and current

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Speaker 1: serving defense personnel there at the Mad Snake. Does it

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Speaker 1: just seems so astonishing. I think, you know, as an

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Speaker 1: Australian observing that, you know, the very body that was

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Speaker 1: designed to sort of support our veterans as they're transitioning out,

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Speaker 1: that it's made it so difficult for them.

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Speaker 2: Are you talking about the DVA. Look, I think that

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Speaker 2: that there's undoubtedly been significant issues with DVA, and DVA

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Speaker 2: acknowledges that we had the Secretary of DVA, who's the

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Speaker 2: kind of you know, the CEO, and she said, you know,

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Speaker 2: our system is not fit for purpose. So there's an

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Speaker 2: acknowledgment there that it has failed veterans. But I don't

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Speaker 2: think it's entirely fair to blame DVA. I think there

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Speaker 2: are issues there in terms of the process of transition

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Speaker 2: and discharge from the Defense Force that could be done

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Speaker 2: a lot better. And again Defense has acknowledged that there

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Speaker 2: are issues there that they could change, and in fact

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Speaker 2: have been in the process of making changes to that.

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Speaker 1: Are you expecting today and over the coming days to

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Speaker 1: hear issues and concerns that are unique to the Northern Territory? Oh?

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Speaker 2: Look, I do expect that we will hear some issues

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Speaker 2: that are very specific to the Northern Territory. That's the

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Speaker 2: issue of the remoteness. Some people come here and accompany

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Speaker 2: because they've got children, and it's not always the most

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Speaker 2: convenient for children to come here at certain times of

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Speaker 2: their educational cycle, for example. So those issues of isolation,

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Speaker 2: sometimes separation. The climate is a challenging one for many

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Speaker 2: people who are not accustomed to it. All of those

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Speaker 2: factors can contribute to the challenges of serving in the

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Speaker 2: defense force here in the Northern Territory.

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Speaker 1: Now, I know you already touched on the fact that

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Speaker 1: there has been that interim report released some territory insisting

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Speaker 1: may feel like the outcomes have already been determined due

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Speaker 1: to the fact that has been released. But what would

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Speaker 1: you say to people that are maybe feeling that way

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Speaker 1: today and wondering if they should still come forward and

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Speaker 1: speak or put in a submission.

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Speaker 2: Oh, look, I would say, please come forward and please

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Speaker 2: we want to hear your voice. The interim report was

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Speaker 2: required after twelve months essentially of the commission's work. It

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Speaker 2: was designed to address the really urgent, immediate kind of issues.

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Speaker 2: There's a whole host of work that we've been doing

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Speaker 2: that's actually not reflected in the interim report, and there's

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Speaker 2: a whole heit more that we need to do yet,

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Speaker 2: so we need to hear the voices of people. We

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Speaker 2: need to hear their experience so that we can understand

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Speaker 2: what the issues are and then what potential solutions are.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, even yesterday when we spoke to Sam,

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Speaker 1: he had said that, you know that he's heard others

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Speaker 1: in the community say, oh, I just don't know if

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Speaker 1: there's any point in coming forward. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: there's any point in speaking because I don't actually know

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Speaker 1: whether it's going to make a difference. Again, what would

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Speaker 1: you say to those people, because I know we do

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Speaker 1: have a lot of defense personnel and veterans that listen

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Speaker 1: to the show who may be listening this morning and

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Speaker 1: still feeling that way.

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Speaker 2: Well, again, I would say, please do come forward. Think

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Speaker 2: really hard, but come forward, because we do want to

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Speaker 2: hear your voice. We have heard in the last month

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Speaker 2: since the Interim Report came out, well even before then,

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Speaker 2: but we've had people say to us, you know, there's

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Speaker 2: a difference even since the Royal Commission started. So I

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Speaker 2: think we are making some difference from that. From the

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Speaker 2: recommendations in the interim report. Government accepted the majority of

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Speaker 2: our thirteen recommendations, and particularly in relation to DVA, they

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Speaker 2: accepted them unreservedly. They have put on five hundred additional

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Speaker 2: staff to help deal with the claims. So I think

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Speaker 2: that is evidence that the Royal Commission can and is

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Speaker 2: making a difference. And I think as we continue to explore,

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Speaker 2: you know that the vast number of other issues that

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Speaker 2: we need to before we conclude the Royal Commission, you know,

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Speaker 2: we need to hear those voices so that we can

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Speaker 2: get the best solutions to the problems that people are facing.

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Speaker 1: Well, doctor Peggy Brown, is there anything else we should

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Speaker 1: be aware of this morning before those hearings get underway,

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Speaker 1: or anything else that our listeners should be aware of.

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Speaker 2: Look, the one thing I would say is that this

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Speaker 2: can be a very unsettling conversation for some people, and

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Speaker 2: we understand that we do have supports available for people

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Speaker 2: who want to engage with the Royal Commission. We have

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Speaker 2: Council trained counselors available. You can access them before a hearing,

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Speaker 2: during a hearing, after a hearing, so if people want

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Speaker 2: to engage, they can. There's also support for anyone who

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Speaker 2: wants to make a submission. There is a legal service

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Speaker 2: that can assist them in the preparation of their submission.

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Speaker 2: The details for that are on our website. So that's

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Speaker 2: Defense Veterans Suicide dot Royalcommission, dot gov dot AU. But yeah,

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Speaker 2: if people do feel in any way troubled by hearing

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Speaker 2: about the Royal Commission or attending the Royal Commission, that

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Speaker 2: support is available and of course we've got other crisis

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Speaker 2: support line numbers on our website as well well.

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Speaker 1: Royal Commissioner, doctor Peggy Brown, I really appreciate your time

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Speaker 1: this morning. I know it's an incredibly busy time for

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Speaker 1: you while you're here in Darwin. We appreciate you taking

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Speaker 1: the time to come in and speak with us.

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Speaker 2: Thank you very much.