1
00:00:03,440 --> 00:00:07,160
Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the.

2
00:00:07,160 --> 00:00:10,119
Speaker 2: Time poor parent who just wants answers.

3
00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:12,880
Speaker 3: Now. Hello, it's doctor Justin Coulson, the founder of Happy

4
00:00:12,920 --> 00:00:15,640
Speaker 3: Families dot com dot you, author of Oh can you

5
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,800
Speaker 3: Believe It? My eighth book comes out on the first

6
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:21,720
Speaker 3: of May. It's only a few weeks away, just around

7
00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,040
Speaker 3: the corner. And I am here with Christine Leighton, ABC

8
00:00:25,200 --> 00:00:28,280
Speaker 3: Perth and Western Australia Afternoons presenter, who has kindly given

9
00:00:28,360 --> 00:00:30,560
Speaker 3: up some time this week to hang out with me

10
00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:34,599
Speaker 3: and share some podcast ideas. Because missus Happy Families, Kylie

11
00:00:34,640 --> 00:00:38,120
Speaker 3: is being well. I don't know how to say this

12
00:00:38,120 --> 00:00:40,240
Speaker 3: without getting myself in trouble, but she's been mum.

13
00:00:40,360 --> 00:00:42,479
Speaker 1: She's decided she's done with the podcast this week. She

14
00:00:42,520 --> 00:00:44,360
Speaker 1: just wants some time with the kids. She said, Justin,

15
00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:46,000
Speaker 1: you go and do it. So here I am. I'm

16
00:00:46,040 --> 00:00:46,320
Speaker 1: doing it.

17
00:00:46,320 --> 00:00:48,599
Speaker 3: And Christine, thanks for thanks for filling in and being

18
00:00:48,680 --> 00:00:50,159
Speaker 3: missus Happy Families today.

19
00:00:50,640 --> 00:00:52,080
Speaker 4: It's an honor. It's an honor, Justin.

20
00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:54,240
Speaker 5: And look, thank you so much for releasing your next

21
00:00:54,240 --> 00:00:55,240
Speaker 5: book on my birthday.

22
00:00:55,680 --> 00:00:58,080
Speaker 1: Really May one, May one.

23
00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:00,320
Speaker 5: That's right, May day, as my mum would say, of.

24
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:02,440
Speaker 1: Course, yeah, well, happy birthday my book. Can we talk

25
00:01:02,480 --> 00:01:04,080
Speaker 1: about it for a second. I know we've got another.

26
00:01:03,880 --> 00:01:06,279
Speaker 4: Topic, but my book is called Everything.

27
00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 3: The Parenting Revolution because I think we need one, and

28
00:01:10,560 --> 00:01:12,920
Speaker 3: I'm so we should actually talk about this on ABC

29
00:01:13,160 --> 00:01:15,560
Speaker 3: Perth and Wa when the book comes out.

30
00:01:15,560 --> 00:01:16,840
Speaker 1: Would that be okay? Would you be up for that?

31
00:01:17,520 --> 00:01:18,600
Speaker 4: Oh? Always?

32
00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:19,080
Speaker 5: Justin enough.

33
00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:20,679
Speaker 4: I wanted to know more about it so I could

34
00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,440
Speaker 4: start taking notes. So what's it about.

35
00:01:22,560 --> 00:01:24,800
Speaker 3: Well, it's kind of like about the past, present, and

36
00:01:24,880 --> 00:01:25,759
Speaker 3: future of parenting.

37
00:01:26,120 --> 00:01:28,120
Speaker 1: I look at the Have you heard of the book

38
00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:29,400
Speaker 1: series Horrible Histories?

39
00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:30,800
Speaker 4: Yes? I have.

40
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,919
Speaker 6: If there's a different to drunk Histories but without the alcohol.

41
00:01:34,680 --> 00:01:36,520
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I think that there was probably alcohol involved

42
00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:38,640
Speaker 3: in most of those horrible histories as well. But the

43
00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,440
Speaker 3: history of parenting is perhaps the most horrible history of all.

44
00:01:41,560 --> 00:01:45,959
Speaker 3: It's absolutely devastating when you dive into what historians.

45
00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,760
Speaker 1: Have uncovered about how children used to be raised.

46
00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,600
Speaker 3: And so the first couple of chapters I talk about

47
00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:50,920
Speaker 3: what it is to be a good parent, how that's

48
00:01:51,000 --> 00:01:55,760
Speaker 3: changed through the millennia and especially through recent centuries, and

49
00:01:56,080 --> 00:01:58,480
Speaker 3: most particularly over the last one hundred years. What does

50
00:01:58,480 --> 00:02:00,320
Speaker 3: it actually mean to be a good parent, and then

51
00:02:00,360 --> 00:02:03,280
Speaker 3: we talk about what pairing styles are, Helicopter parents and

52
00:02:03,320 --> 00:02:08,640
Speaker 3: tiger parents and gentle parents and free range parents, the

53
00:02:08,639 --> 00:02:11,400
Speaker 3: whole lot, as well as the academic version of that,

54
00:02:11,480 --> 00:02:16,760
Speaker 3: the authoritative, the authoritarian, and the permissive parent. And essentially

55
00:02:17,240 --> 00:02:20,079
Speaker 3: I highlight why they're so popular, these parenting styles and

56
00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:21,200
Speaker 3: also what's wrong with them.

57
00:02:21,440 --> 00:02:22,120
Speaker 1: And then we talk.

58
00:02:21,960 --> 00:02:23,960
Speaker 3: About the future of parenting where we need to go,

59
00:02:24,040 --> 00:02:27,160
Speaker 3: and I talk about this thing that's called need supportive parenting,

60
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:28,079
Speaker 3: which I.

61
00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:29,960
Speaker 1: Think is the pairing revolution that we need.

62
00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:32,880
Speaker 3: It's the kind of paring that says our children have

63
00:02:32,919 --> 00:02:35,800
Speaker 3: basic psychological needs and if we can create an environment

64
00:02:35,840 --> 00:02:39,560
Speaker 3: that supports those needs, oh my goodness, they thrive, They flourish,

65
00:02:39,560 --> 00:02:42,120
Speaker 3: they're motivated, their well being as high they like, they

66
00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:44,880
Speaker 3: just become great, well adapted kids. And so the rest

67
00:02:44,880 --> 00:02:48,079
Speaker 3: of the book is essentially, how do we create that environment,

68
00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:50,480
Speaker 3: how do we support those what are those needs and

69
00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:50,840
Speaker 3: how do.

70
00:02:50,800 --> 00:02:53,560
Speaker 1: We support them? So the pairing revolution may one it.

71
00:02:55,360 --> 00:02:59,240
Speaker 6: Sounds like the book version of parental guidance in a

72
00:02:59,280 --> 00:03:03,360
Speaker 6: way justice because I love seeing you on screen with

73
00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:06,600
Speaker 6: the various labels talking through how they do and don't work.

74
00:03:06,639 --> 00:03:08,359
Speaker 6: But then you've got the future of parenting as well,

75
00:03:08,440 --> 00:03:12,800
Speaker 6: So definitely bookmark that ABC Radio Perth wa that's great. Now,

76
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,360
Speaker 6: I wanted to ask you what to do when a

77
00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:17,799
Speaker 6: child starts lying.

78
00:03:17,919 --> 00:03:19,800
Speaker 4: There are two parts to this? Can I tell you

79
00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:21,000
Speaker 4: two very short stories?

80
00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:22,800
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you have a four year old, so I'm

81
00:03:22,800 --> 00:03:24,280
Speaker 3: going to guess this is a personal one, right, This

82
00:03:24,320 --> 00:03:26,520
Speaker 3: is you're after some therapy in today's podcast?

83
00:03:26,520 --> 00:03:27,040
Speaker 1: Am I right?

84
00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:31,000
Speaker 4: Maybe it actually starts with me. Now. I was in

85
00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:31,520
Speaker 4: year two.

86
00:03:32,520 --> 00:03:35,240
Speaker 6: I was doing very rebellious things like cutting my own

87
00:03:35,320 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 6: fringe during class with scissors. I went to a friend's

88
00:03:38,960 --> 00:03:41,640
Speaker 6: house without without asking mum, and these were the days

89
00:03:41,640 --> 00:03:43,760
Speaker 6: without mobile, so she didn't know where i'd gone.

90
00:03:43,800 --> 00:03:46,600
Speaker 4: Called Jane Gardner. She was never my friend again.

91
00:03:47,200 --> 00:03:50,320
Speaker 6: But what I did do was I pretended that I

92
00:03:50,360 --> 00:03:53,680
Speaker 6: had a mole removed to get attention at school. And

93
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:59,120
Speaker 6: I remember doing this to get everyone's love and affection

94
00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:02,200
Speaker 6: and sympathy, and Mama Dad sent me down and said.

95
00:04:02,040 --> 00:04:03,520
Speaker 4: You know, why did you do that? And of course

96
00:04:04,080 --> 00:04:07,000
Speaker 4: in you too. I had no idea. Looking back, my

97
00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,160
Speaker 4: brother had just been born.

98
00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,880
Speaker 6: I think he was maybe one or two years old,

99
00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,880
Speaker 6: and I was probably lacking that affection and So the

100
00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,160
Speaker 6: second part of this is the fact that my daughter

101
00:04:17,200 --> 00:04:21,960
Speaker 6: is now four years old. I'm not putting my template

102
00:04:22,000 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 6: onto her, but she's very similar to me in terms

103
00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,520
Speaker 6: of characteristics. She's very excited about her baby brother, which

104
00:04:27,560 --> 00:04:29,640
Speaker 6: is currently in my belly right now. She's got little

105
00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,040
Speaker 6: dolls and feeds them and puts them in the walker

106
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,840
Speaker 6: so that they can have a little nap. But I

107
00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:38,039
Speaker 6: am concerned that when baby number two comes along that

108
00:04:38,200 --> 00:04:41,880
Speaker 6: she will also be seeking that connection all that she'll

109
00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:45,040
Speaker 6: use that connection seeking behavior as you call it, which

110
00:04:45,120 --> 00:04:46,159
Speaker 6: is such a useful term.

111
00:04:46,240 --> 00:04:49,040
Speaker 4: So what do you do when your child starts lying?

112
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:51,880
Speaker 6: I mean, when Mamma dad sat me down and said

113
00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:55,200
Speaker 6: this is the wrong thing to do, I understood why,

114
00:04:55,360 --> 00:05:00,159
Speaker 6: but from memory, justin I kept doing it. I had

115
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:01,479
Speaker 6: to learn the lesson. So what do you do?

116
00:05:01,680 --> 00:05:04,120
Speaker 3: I love your stories. I love how you picked them out.

117
00:05:04,200 --> 00:05:05,919
Speaker 3: When you were sharing those, it reminded me of a

118
00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:08,440
Speaker 3: story from when I was a kid. I used to

119
00:05:08,520 --> 00:05:11,320
Speaker 3: exaggerate all the time. I used to tell lies to

120
00:05:11,360 --> 00:05:13,280
Speaker 3: my friends because I wanted to be popular, I wanted

121
00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,080
Speaker 3: to be cool, And you just reminded me of maybe

122
00:05:16,120 --> 00:05:18,360
Speaker 3: the biggest one that I ever told which was in

123
00:05:18,760 --> 00:05:24,560
Speaker 3: nineteen ninety. There was this concert. It was like a

124
00:05:24,720 --> 00:05:30,200
Speaker 3: multi city live broadcast of the first ever National Australian

125
00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:33,640
Speaker 3: Music Day. It was called OZ Music nineteen ninety and

126
00:05:34,279 --> 00:05:37,560
Speaker 3: they had performers in Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane, Adelaide and Perth

127
00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:41,599
Speaker 3: and I'm talking all of the Australia's biggest acts. We

128
00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:43,919
Speaker 3: had John Farnham and do you remember Joe Camileary in

129
00:05:43,920 --> 00:05:47,760
Speaker 3: The Black Sorrows. Paul Kelly and the Messengers, if I

130
00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:51,920
Speaker 3: recall correctly, played in Adelaide, and I loved Paul Kelly,

131
00:05:52,480 --> 00:05:54,760
Speaker 3: Wennie Matthews, Crowded House, Born Crash Opera, and it was

132
00:05:54,839 --> 00:06:00,280
Speaker 3: just it was huge, and it was telecast on.

133
00:05:59,040 --> 00:06:00,559
Speaker 1: Channel seven or Channel nin or something.

134
00:06:01,080 --> 00:06:03,240
Speaker 3: And when I showed up to school on the Monday,

135
00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,279
Speaker 3: so this was on a Saturday, and on the Monday

136
00:06:05,279 --> 00:06:07,280
Speaker 3: when I showed up for school, one of my friends

137
00:06:07,320 --> 00:06:09,280
Speaker 3: asked me what I did, and I said, I went

138
00:06:09,279 --> 00:06:13,800
Speaker 3: to Adelaide for the OS Music Concert because I wanted

139
00:06:13,839 --> 00:06:15,200
Speaker 3: to be the cool kid who got to go to

140
00:06:15,240 --> 00:06:17,560
Speaker 3: this show, and because I'd watched it all afternoon on TV.

141
00:06:17,600 --> 00:06:20,680
Speaker 3: Because I was such a music nut, I knew everyone

142
00:06:20,720 --> 00:06:22,680
Speaker 3: that had performed and all the songs that they played,

143
00:06:22,680 --> 00:06:24,640
Speaker 3: and I just told this great big lie and I

144
00:06:24,680 --> 00:06:26,200
Speaker 3: got to be cool for the day because my parents

145
00:06:26,240 --> 00:06:28,520
Speaker 3: flew me to Adelaide in nineteen ninety to see Oz

146
00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:32,440
Speaker 3: music and it never happened. And like, I hear your story,

147
00:06:32,480 --> 00:06:35,280
Speaker 3: and I'm like, don't all kids do that? Don't we

148
00:06:35,360 --> 00:06:37,200
Speaker 3: all tell lies so that we can look better, so

149
00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:40,800
Speaker 3: that we exaggerate, so that we can look good. I just,

150
00:06:41,480 --> 00:06:42,960
Speaker 3: I know that's a tangent that moves away from what

151
00:06:42,960 --> 00:06:45,200
Speaker 3: your original question was. But I just I don't know.

152
00:06:45,200 --> 00:06:47,000
Speaker 3: I needed to confess to you, Christine. I needed to

153
00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:47,320
Speaker 3: get off.

154
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:49,120
Speaker 4: For christ I'm so glad you did.

155
00:06:49,160 --> 00:06:51,800
Speaker 6: But also, I mean, as an ABC presented, that is

156
00:06:51,839 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 6: the ultimate lineup.

157
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:55,680
Speaker 5: Could you imagine if that happened now? I'm probably lied

158
00:06:55,760 --> 00:06:56,480
Speaker 5: of my friends too.

159
00:06:56,920 --> 00:07:00,279
Speaker 3: I'm just googling it as we speak. So this is

160
00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:03,039
Speaker 3: not the entire lineup, but the top lineup have a

161
00:07:03,080 --> 00:07:05,919
Speaker 3: listened to this. We've got Ice House, Mental as Anything,

162
00:07:06,400 --> 00:07:11,080
Speaker 3: Tim Finn, Crowded House, Boom Crash Opera, Kate Sobrano, Ian Moss,

163
00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,040
Speaker 3: Wendy Matthews, Paul Kelly, The Black Sorros, John Front.

164
00:07:14,160 --> 00:07:16,240
Speaker 6: I mean what, Well, you pretty much got it right,

165
00:07:16,280 --> 00:07:18,160
Speaker 6: by the way, justin You've got a really good memory.

166
00:07:18,680 --> 00:07:21,680
Speaker 1: You know what, I really love my music. I remember

167
00:07:21,680 --> 00:07:23,280
Speaker 1: a lot of stuff when it comes to music.

168
00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 3: I'm putting together a music trivia night at the moment,

169
00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,000
Speaker 3: and I'm having so much fun, just getting ready to

170
00:07:29,040 --> 00:07:35,880
Speaker 3: destroy everyone with my music knowledge. But anyway, we digress. Now,

171
00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,640
Speaker 3: what was this specific question again? Because I got so

172
00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,119
Speaker 3: caught up in my story.

173
00:07:39,400 --> 00:07:40,200
Speaker 1: I need this fine.

174
00:07:40,240 --> 00:07:44,600
Speaker 6: That was a fun, little great music nerd session.

175
00:07:45,280 --> 00:07:47,280
Speaker 4: What do you do when your child starts lying?

176
00:07:47,400 --> 00:07:47,640
Speaker 3: Ah?

177
00:07:47,720 --> 00:07:48,680
Speaker 1: Yeah, okay, that's right.

178
00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,240
Speaker 3: So the best thing to do is, you know, you know,

179
00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:54,600
Speaker 3: the pump soap. You just got to open up their mouth,

180
00:07:54,680 --> 00:07:57,200
Speaker 3: squirt a few squirts of pump soap into their mouth.

181
00:07:57,200 --> 00:07:59,200
Speaker 3: You get them to swish it around their teeth. I'm

182
00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:00,680
Speaker 3: just kidding. Please, if anyone's like.

183
00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:03,920
Speaker 2: A horrible history, if anybody heard me say that and

184
00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:07,320
Speaker 2: thought I was being serious, let me be absolutely never, ever, ever, ever,

185
00:08:07,920 --> 00:08:10,120
Speaker 2: never watch your kids in mouth out with So, I

186
00:08:10,120 --> 00:08:12,120
Speaker 2: think we've got to pause and just consider why is

187
00:08:12,160 --> 00:08:12,960
Speaker 2: our child lying?

188
00:08:13,120 --> 00:08:16,480
Speaker 3: And when it comes to lying to us the life

189
00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:18,720
Speaker 3: for a few reasons. The first reason that they lie

190
00:08:18,760 --> 00:08:20,720
Speaker 3: is because they just don't want to be in trouble.

191
00:08:21,560 --> 00:08:25,320
Speaker 3: They're terrified that if we know the truth, that they're

192
00:08:25,360 --> 00:08:28,240
Speaker 3: going to be in big trouble. The second reason is

193
00:08:28,280 --> 00:08:31,880
Speaker 3: because they want to protect their self esteem. I believe

194
00:08:31,880 --> 00:08:33,600
Speaker 3: that I'm a good person, and I need my parents

195
00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:35,880
Speaker 3: to believe that I'm a good person. And if I

196
00:08:35,920 --> 00:08:37,839
Speaker 3: tell them the truth about this thing that I've done,

197
00:08:38,000 --> 00:08:41,080
Speaker 3: I'm going to look like I'm a bad person, and

198
00:08:41,120 --> 00:08:42,800
Speaker 3: that means that I also have to admit that I'm

199
00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:47,200
Speaker 3: a bad person. The third reason that kids tell lies,

200
00:08:47,360 --> 00:08:49,280
Speaker 3: if we go back to my oz music story and

201
00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:54,440
Speaker 3: your story from earlier as well, is because we want

202
00:08:54,520 --> 00:08:58,600
Speaker 3: to look good. We want to look competent, capable, we

203
00:08:58,640 --> 00:09:01,560
Speaker 3: want to look like we have got it all together.

204
00:09:01,600 --> 00:09:03,640
Speaker 3: I mean, this is why kids lie about having the

205
00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:05,640
Speaker 3: room done or having their homework done.

206
00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:07,520
Speaker 1: It's not always because they want to get out of trouble.

207
00:09:07,520 --> 00:09:11,120
Speaker 3: It's because even if they're struggling with their maths, they're like, no, no, no,

208
00:09:11,240 --> 00:09:16,400
Speaker 3: I'm fine, I'm fine because they want to appear that

209
00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:18,200
Speaker 3: they've got it all together. They want it to look

210
00:09:18,280 --> 00:09:22,240
Speaker 3: like everything's fine, because to suggest otherwise is to indicate

211
00:09:22,280 --> 00:09:26,160
Speaker 3: that they are incompetent, and kids they want to look competent.

212
00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:29,160
Speaker 3: So that's the first thing. Let's just understand why our

213
00:09:29,200 --> 00:09:31,000
Speaker 3: child is lying. There may be some other reasons as well,

214
00:09:31,040 --> 00:09:33,160
Speaker 3: but they, to me, are going to be the central ones.

215
00:09:33,720 --> 00:09:34,680
Speaker 1: So what do we do?

216
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:37,360
Speaker 3: I think the first thing that we want to do, well,

217
00:09:37,559 --> 00:09:39,680
Speaker 3: it kind of depends on the context, but the first

218
00:09:39,720 --> 00:09:42,200
Speaker 3: thing we want to do typically is reassure them that

219
00:09:42,760 --> 00:09:44,560
Speaker 3: they're not going to get in trouble no matter what.

220
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:48,080
Speaker 3: The last thing that you want your kids thinking is

221
00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,559
Speaker 3: that you are going to be nasty to them because

222
00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,559
Speaker 3: they've told you the truth. The stakes are kind of

223
00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:55,200
Speaker 3: low when they're two or three, or four or five,

224
00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,960
Speaker 3: but when they're fifteen or seventeen, the stakes.

225
00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,160
Speaker 1: Are a lot higher. And you really want them to

226
00:10:00,160 --> 00:10:03,359
Speaker 1: be able to come to you as a seventeen.

227
00:10:03,040 --> 00:10:06,400
Speaker 3: Year old and call you at eleven o'clock on Saturday

228
00:10:06,480 --> 00:10:10,320
Speaker 3: night and say I'm in trouble. I've done some dumb

229
00:10:10,360 --> 00:10:14,679
Speaker 3: things tonight and I need your help. I can't get

230
00:10:14,679 --> 00:10:16,600
Speaker 3: out of this situation on my own. Like, the stakes

231
00:10:16,600 --> 00:10:18,800
Speaker 3: are much higher at that point, and if they know

232
00:10:18,880 --> 00:10:23,040
Speaker 3: that they won't get in trouble, then that goes a

233
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:26,199
Speaker 3: long way to alleviating the anxiety they feel around telling

234
00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:26,760
Speaker 3: the truth.

235
00:10:27,520 --> 00:10:29,080
Speaker 4: Have you heard of Plan X?

236
00:10:29,360 --> 00:10:32,560
Speaker 3: Justin Plan X is that where you send a text

237
00:10:32,559 --> 00:10:34,720
Speaker 3: message with an X to say I need help?

238
00:10:34,840 --> 00:10:36,520
Speaker 1: Is that yes, yes.

239
00:10:36,920 --> 00:10:38,800
Speaker 6: A listener told me about this a few weeks ago,

240
00:10:38,840 --> 00:10:40,920
Speaker 6: and that the agreement is if you send that X,

241
00:10:41,280 --> 00:10:43,440
Speaker 6: then there's a script that you follow.

242
00:10:43,679 --> 00:10:45,839
Speaker 4: You know, you say, I give them a call. I've

243
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:47,080
Speaker 4: got to go home call.

244
00:10:47,200 --> 00:10:49,199
Speaker 6: You'll be there in five minutes, no matter where they are,

245
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,760
Speaker 6: if they've gone to a party, you know, twenty kilometers.

246
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:52,640
Speaker 4: Away, doesn't matter.

247
00:10:53,320 --> 00:10:55,280
Speaker 6: And then they can tell you as little or as

248
00:10:55,360 --> 00:10:57,880
Speaker 6: much as they want to. And that's that's the Plan

249
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:02,720
Speaker 6: X agreement. That was really cool and it kind of

250
00:11:02,920 --> 00:11:04,680
Speaker 6: ties into that. And I'm in a book market because

251
00:11:04,760 --> 00:11:07,120
Speaker 6: Bonnie is absolutely going to party huts.

252
00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're going to see it.

253
00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:13,920
Speaker 3: So that brings us to I think one of the

254
00:11:13,920 --> 00:11:16,080
Speaker 3: things that parents get wrong when it comes to dishonesty

255
00:11:16,120 --> 00:11:18,120
Speaker 3: all the time, and that is we walk into the room.

256
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:19,679
Speaker 1: Let's say you've got a four year old who's.

257
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:21,280
Speaker 3: Been a little bit of a cheeky monkey. You walk

258
00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:24,400
Speaker 3: into the room and you say, did you do this thing?

259
00:11:24,520 --> 00:11:25,080
Speaker 1: Whatever it is?

260
00:11:25,120 --> 00:11:28,040
Speaker 3: Did you hit your brother? Did you steal the cookies

261
00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:28,760
Speaker 3: from the cookie jar?

262
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:29,120
Speaker 1: Did you?

263
00:11:29,679 --> 00:11:33,000
Speaker 3: And we ask them a question that we already know

264
00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:38,000
Speaker 3: the answer to, which is which is a fatal mistake

265
00:11:38,080 --> 00:11:42,120
Speaker 3: because now they're in a bind. With young children, they've

266
00:11:42,120 --> 00:11:44,400
Speaker 3: got limited access to the information that's in our head.

267
00:11:45,160 --> 00:11:48,280
Speaker 3: They just don't have the developmental capacity to got my

268
00:11:48,320 --> 00:11:49,000
Speaker 3: parents really know.

269
00:11:49,280 --> 00:11:50,199
Speaker 1: But with older.

270
00:11:49,960 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 3: Children it makes it even more taxing because they're like, oh,

271
00:11:52,880 --> 00:11:54,719
Speaker 3: I reckon, they do know, but I'm going to try

272
00:11:54,720 --> 00:11:56,280
Speaker 3: and get away with it, because what if they don't.

273
00:11:56,280 --> 00:11:59,520
Speaker 3: They start to play these mind games. What happens when

274
00:11:59,520 --> 00:12:02,280
Speaker 3: we say did you? When we already know the answer.

275
00:12:02,520 --> 00:12:04,200
Speaker 3: If they tell the truth, they know they're in trouble.

276
00:12:04,400 --> 00:12:06,040
Speaker 3: But if they tell a lie, now they're in double

277
00:12:06,080 --> 00:12:07,880
Speaker 3: trouble because not only have they told a lie, but

278
00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:11,120
Speaker 3: they've also done the wrong thing. And so the rule is,

279
00:12:11,200 --> 00:12:13,480
Speaker 3: when you walk into the room to talk to your

280
00:12:13,559 --> 00:12:17,560
Speaker 3: child about a misbehavior, a misdemeanor, a challenging issue, never

281
00:12:17,559 --> 00:12:19,480
Speaker 3: ever ever ask them a question you know the answer to,

282
00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:23,360
Speaker 3: instead walking in and say I just walked past this

283
00:12:23,400 --> 00:12:25,960
Speaker 3: doorway and I saw you throw the Tonka truck at

284
00:12:26,000 --> 00:12:29,079
Speaker 3: your brother's head. And now he's crying, and now your

285
00:12:29,120 --> 00:12:31,160
Speaker 3: child is very unlikely look at you and say I

286
00:12:31,160 --> 00:12:34,240
Speaker 3: did not. I did not because you've just told them

287
00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:36,480
Speaker 3: I walked past the door and I watched you throw

288
00:12:36,520 --> 00:12:39,520
Speaker 3: the Tonka truck at your brother's head. Like that's the

289
00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:41,959
Speaker 3: end of that conversation, and then we get to move

290
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,839
Speaker 3: on with what happens next. We don't have to deal

291
00:12:43,880 --> 00:12:46,720
Speaker 3: with lying so often. We set our kids up to

292
00:12:46,840 --> 00:12:51,280
Speaker 3: lie by asking them questions that we know the answer to,

293
00:12:51,840 --> 00:12:54,080
Speaker 3: and with them being afraid of getting in trouble, they're

294
00:12:54,080 --> 00:12:55,880
Speaker 3: now going to try and get out of it. So

295
00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:58,559
Speaker 3: I guess that's kind of a long way to answer

296
00:12:58,600 --> 00:13:00,000
Speaker 3: your question, but there are a couple of things apace

297
00:13:00,000 --> 00:13:02,200
Speaker 3: parents need to do when their kids start lying.

298
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:04,720
Speaker 1: The next thing that I would.

299
00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:10,240
Speaker 3: Say is we just say to our kids, we didn't

300
00:13:10,240 --> 00:13:14,640
Speaker 3: have chat about this thing, and we remind them of

301
00:13:14,679 --> 00:13:17,120
Speaker 3: what honesty is and why honesty is important, and then

302
00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:19,320
Speaker 3: we have a chat about it. If they're still lying

303
00:13:19,320 --> 00:13:21,360
Speaker 3: because they're terrified they're going to get in trouble and

304
00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:23,520
Speaker 3: we know that they're lying, you can sit there and

305
00:13:23,600 --> 00:13:24,880
Speaker 3: argue and say, hey, I know you're lying, and they

306
00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:26,200
Speaker 3: can say but I'm not lying, you.

307
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,199
Speaker 1: Know, I know you're lying. I'm not lying at all.

308
00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:30,960
Speaker 3: That's that Ruth and you both end up in this

309
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,360
Speaker 3: horrible spiral. So it's best to say right now. You're

310
00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,440
Speaker 3: having a hard time with the truth and we both

311
00:13:36,480 --> 00:13:39,680
Speaker 3: know that. So we'll have this conversation in half an hour,

312
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:42,280
Speaker 3: or we'll have this conversation tomorrow. You're not in trouble.

313
00:13:42,440 --> 00:13:43,920
Speaker 3: I love you too much to get you in trouble.

314
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:45,840
Speaker 3: But we do need to work this out because we

315
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:47,479
Speaker 3: can't keep having these situations.

316
00:13:47,840 --> 00:13:50,079
Speaker 1: And so what we're doing is we're downplaying the drama.

317
00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:53,160
Speaker 3: We're letting them know that we understand why they're lying,

318
00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:55,560
Speaker 3: and we'll have the conversation a bit later when we

319
00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 3: can all tell the truth. Yeah.

320
00:13:57,760 --> 00:13:59,880
Speaker 4: I like that. That's a really good idea.

321
00:14:00,240 --> 00:14:02,640
Speaker 6: Oh I'm glad these are recorded, justin so I can

322
00:14:02,720 --> 00:14:04,760
Speaker 6: play it back in you know, one or two years,

323
00:14:05,640 --> 00:14:10,199
Speaker 6: things you know, really escalate, but you know in the meantime,

324
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:12,200
Speaker 6: you're absolved of your lying sins.

325
00:14:12,920 --> 00:14:13,880
Speaker 4: Just let that be clear.

326
00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:18,760
Speaker 1: I can't believe that I confess that. Well. I hope

327
00:14:18,760 --> 00:14:19,480
Speaker 1: that it has been helpful.

328
00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,720
Speaker 3: The Happy Families podcast is produced by Justin rolland from

329
00:14:21,720 --> 00:14:24,080
Speaker 3: Bridge Media. Craig Bruce is our executive producer and for

330
00:14:24,120 --> 00:14:26,240
Speaker 3: more information about making your family happier, we would love

331
00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,360
Speaker 3: for you to visit our Facebook page, doctor Justin Couson's

332
00:14:28,360 --> 00:14:30,840
Speaker 3: Happy Families or happy families dot com.

333
00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:32,640
Speaker 1: Dot you Christine, Let's do it again tomorrow.

334
00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,200
Speaker 4: Yeah deal? Say you, Justin