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Speaker 1: The Minister for Health, Natasha Fhiles, has introduced the controversial

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Speaker 1: new laws in Parliament which would give the Chief Health

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Speaker 1: Officer extensive powers for two years. The government previously flagged

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Speaker 1: that once the pandemic State of Emergency declaration comes to

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Speaker 1: an end in May, it would legislate to provide doctor

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Speaker 1: q Hegey with these transitional powers. But under these amendments,

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Speaker 1: authorized officers of the Chief Health Officer would also retain

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Speaker 1: the ability to search home seize documents without needing a warrant.

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Speaker 1: It would also mean that doctor Hegey could continue to

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Speaker 1: enforce those check in apps, the mask mandates, vaccine mandates

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Speaker 1: and other health decisions now. When introducing this legislation in

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Speaker 1: Parliament on Wednesday, Natasha Philes said that the proposed changes

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Speaker 1: would provide the Chow with transitional powers.

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Speaker 2: Like I said, I.

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Speaker 1: Think the problem here is that there's no real reporting

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Speaker 1: back from the Chow to the Parliament. And we also

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Speaker 1: know that the Chow, no matter who is in that role,

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Speaker 1: is an unelected official. Look joining me on the line

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Speaker 1: right now to let us know a little bit more

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Speaker 1: about their perspective is the COLP the Shadow Minister for

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Speaker 1: Health Bill Yan Good morning, to you, Bill.

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Speaker 3: Good morning Katie, and good morning to your listeners.

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Speaker 1: Bill.

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Speaker 2: Why are these changes so concerning?

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Speaker 3: Well, at the face, Duk, this new legislation goes much

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Speaker 3: further than I think anyone ever expected, and it's certainly

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Speaker 3: a little bit more than transitional powers. And the powers

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Speaker 3: that are being given to the chain one of this

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Speaker 3: used legislation are expanded powers to the less oversight. The

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Speaker 3: previous legislation had government renewing it every ninety days, and

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Speaker 3: of course then they had to provide reasons for that

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Speaker 3: renewal and the public actually under that act got had

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Speaker 3: some say about what went on. The public could challenge

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Speaker 3: via applications of Supreme Court. Now these changes mean that

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Speaker 3: they're going to give these powers to the Chief Health

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Speaker 3: Officer for two years without that oversight. And of course

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Speaker 3: the most concerning thing I believe is there's no reporting

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Speaker 3: that they've actually watered down the reporter requirements for the show.

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Speaker 3: At the end of a health emergency, the show had

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Speaker 3: to provide a detailed report back to Parliament within three months,

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Speaker 3: and of course then that is provided to territories via

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Speaker 3: the public record. The changes now have the show only

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Speaker 3: providing a summary of his or her actions for the

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Speaker 3: period of the emergency, which is now two years and

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Speaker 3: also now at the end of the two year transitional period.

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Speaker 3: Again it's only a summary. It just it doesn't Washcadie.

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Speaker 3: It's it's less oversight and less transparency on the governor

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Speaker 3: and what they're actually doing.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I think this is the thing that I've been

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Speaker 1: most surprised by, and I think that a lot of

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Speaker 1: our listeners are going to be quite surprised by as well,

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Speaker 1: is that it was really sold to territorians as being

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Speaker 1: these transitional powers. So these powers that would you know,

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Speaker 1: that would sort of see us ease our of any

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Speaker 1: COVID issues over the next two years. But the reality

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Speaker 1: from what I'm then seeing is that it's not going

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Speaker 1: to necessarily mean that the show has less powers or

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Speaker 1: more scrutiny. It's going to mean that things like mask bandates,

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Speaker 1: mandates in general, and lockdowns can be implemented as the

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Speaker 1: show sees fit. Still, is there going to be any

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Speaker 1: scrutiny on those decisions than being made Bill.

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Speaker 3: Well, and that's the thing, Katie, there's not You said

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Speaker 3: that there actually was like transitioning out of COVID, so

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Speaker 3: wine back of the powers and that control and overside reporting. Well,

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Speaker 3: this is absolutely the opposite. This is providing the same

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Speaker 3: or more powers to the Chief Health Officer and this

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Speaker 3: new legislation with less transparency, less reporting back through government.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's unbelievable to think that government would expand

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Speaker 3: the powers of the Chow over what they've currently got

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Speaker 3: under the current emergency health legislation. So it just certainly

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Speaker 3: doesn't make any sense. Okay, this is why the build

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Speaker 3: of the CORP introduced yesterday is so important. This is

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Speaker 3: about having the decisions of the show is making that

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Speaker 3: affect territories on a day to day basis being provided

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Speaker 3: in a written report back to Parliament, so territorians get

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Speaker 3: to see the decision making process around things that affect

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Speaker 3: them every day. It's actually quite.

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Speaker 1: Simple just going back to what the government has introduced, though,

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Speaker 1: is there going to be any ability here for scrutiny

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Speaker 1: from what you can gather, like when from the legislation

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Speaker 1: that's been introduced, when is the CHOE going to have

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Speaker 1: to provide any information to the Minister or to the Parliament.

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Speaker 3: Well, at the end of the health emergency, the CHOW

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Speaker 3: under the current legislation would have to provide a detailed

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Speaker 3: report back to Parliment. Now, the changes of the governor

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Speaker 3: introducing means the Show only has to provide a summary.

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Speaker 3: It's not a detailed report. It is just a summary

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Speaker 3: of the actions.

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Speaker 1: So hang on, just repeat that for me, Bill, So currently,

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Speaker 1: under the current legislation he has to provide a detailed report.

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Speaker 1: But under what's being proposed here, it doesn't need to

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Speaker 1: be a detailed report.

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Speaker 2: It just needs to be a summary.

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Speaker 3: That's correct. So under the current legislation as it stands

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Speaker 3: right now today, at the end of the public health emergency,

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Speaker 3: the Show is required to provide a detailed report on

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Speaker 3: the actions that they've taken and the outcomes of those

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Speaker 3: actions to Parliament. The changes mean the now only has

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Speaker 3: to provide a summary. It's not a detailed report. Furthermore

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Speaker 3: to that, Katie, is at the end of the two

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Speaker 3: you transitional period when you would be expecting at least

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Speaker 3: another detailed report about the actions that are taken and

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Speaker 3: the effects and the outcomes they've had on territories. Again,

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Speaker 3: it's only a summary. There is no reference to a

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Speaker 3: detailed report on the decisions and actually governmentary, what would.

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Speaker 2: That mean to you?

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Speaker 3: Interesting here Katie, What's the most interesting thing about this

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Speaker 3: is by the time the show has to provide that

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Speaker 3: report or now only a summary, it will be after

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Speaker 3: the twenty twenty four all this election.

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Speaker 1: Wow, I think a lot of people are going to

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Speaker 1: be quite surprised and dismayed to hear that bill. Look,

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Speaker 1: I know that there will be some people listening this

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Speaker 1: morning who will be thinking, you know, this is fair enough.

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Speaker 2: There is still issues.

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Speaker 1: With COVID, and we do still need the Chief Health

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Speaker 1: Officer to be able to make decisions quickly if required

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Speaker 1: if we do end up with a serious, more serious

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Speaker 1: strain of COVID in the community. I mean to play

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Speaker 1: Devil's advocate here. Do you accept that the chow does

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Speaker 1: still need to have some powers?

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Speaker 3: Well, certainly absolutely ca COVID is still here and we

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Speaker 3: don't know what bearing is going to pop up around

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Speaker 3: the corner. Hoping we always hope for the best of

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Speaker 3: plan for the worst. I suppose we hope that there's

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Speaker 3: no more new variants or worse variants or deadly variance

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Speaker 3: a COVID to pop up. And yes, the show needs

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Speaker 3: the ability to be able to make some of those decisions,

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Speaker 3: But whose decisions need to be done through our elected official,

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Speaker 3: through due process, with some accountability and transparency over why

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Speaker 3: those decisions are being made.

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Speaker 1: So Bell, can I just put this really bluntly, I

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Speaker 1: suppose for our listeners, are you saying that they have

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Speaker 1: watered down the chose reporting requirements or this new legislation

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Speaker 1: waters it down, but he's still going to be retaining

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Speaker 1: those powers no matter who's in that chow position.

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Speaker 3: Correct, doesn't matter who's in the chow position today. Tomorrow,

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Speaker 3: if doctor Heavy stands down and we have another joke,

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Speaker 3: they will have exactly the same powers. And the reporting

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Speaker 3: requirements in the new changes do not require the choke

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Speaker 3: to provide details with detailed reports back to Parliament, only

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Speaker 3: summaries their actions and communication back to Parliament, as the

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Speaker 3: Healthy Minister mentioned yesterday, doesn't even have to be in

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Speaker 3: writing and be a phone call. So where's the detailed

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Speaker 3: recording of the justifications for the decisions that the Chow

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Speaker 3: is making. It's not accountable, it's not transparent, and there

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Speaker 3: will be things being done which will be a very

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Speaker 3: very little record of and of course then there's no

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Speaker 3: information coming through the public of the territory as to

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Speaker 3: what those decisions are based on where is the science

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Speaker 3: around those decisions and so people don't get the ability

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Speaker 3: to understand what's taking place.

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Speaker 1: So Bell obviously, this legislation has been introduced into the

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Speaker 1: Parliament yesterday. What is the process now, how soon is

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Speaker 1: it going to pass? And do Territorians have any option

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Speaker 1: here to have their voices heard?

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Speaker 3: Well, terri Trians can make their voices heard in a

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Speaker 3: number of ways catie of living in a democracy. That's

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Speaker 3: for sure. The legislation will come up in May's parliamentary sittings.

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Speaker 3: We have requested a briefing, at detailed briefing on what

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Speaker 3: these changes are actually going to mean, and will go

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Speaker 3: through those line by line and certainly give it the

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Speaker 3: scrutiny that it deserves on face value. The new powers

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Speaker 3: that they're providing to the show, or sorry, the powers

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Speaker 3: that they're moving across to the show said provides. I

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Speaker 3: suppose a level of power that hasn't been seen given

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Speaker 3: to a public servant previous that I'm aware of. This

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Speaker 3: power normally sits with an elected official, and it sits

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Speaker 3: with a parliamentary and government cross. To give this level

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Speaker 3: of power to one particular public servant is certainly unheard of.

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Speaker 3: And I said, we need to scrutinize that and make

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Speaker 3: sure that the checks and balances are there to make

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Speaker 3: sure that Territorians not getting hoodwinked.

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Speaker 1: Bill. We are fast running out of time, but I

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Speaker 1: do want to ask you, very quickly a couple more questions.

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Speaker 1: One of those, do you have any idea if other

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Speaker 1: states and territories are doing the same thing. From what

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Speaker 1: I can see, it seems as though most other states

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Speaker 1: and territories are moving away from giving more power to

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Speaker 1: the chow or extending public health Emergency declaration and are

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Speaker 1: moving more towards that phasing back.

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Speaker 3: That's right, Katie, most other states and territories are moving

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Speaker 3: into the endemic stage, scaling back the powers that governed

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Speaker 3: are using to make those decisions. Of course, they still

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Speaker 3: sit there if they should need to enact them again.

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Speaker 3: But the only state that I'm aware of that's gone

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Speaker 3: down this path is Victoria. And the public backlash against

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Speaker 3: the Victorian government was absolutely huge, because it's like the

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Speaker 3: Victorian government overstepping their powers and control over the community.

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Speaker 3: So it'll be interest to see how the public reacted

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Speaker 3: to the announcement yesterday by the Health Minister and what

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Speaker 3: the new powers bestowed upon the show. Are going to

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Speaker 3: meet the territory now.

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Speaker 2: Before I let you go. Bill.

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Speaker 1: Parliament certainly got pretty fired up yesterday. The Opposition leader

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Speaker 1: thrown out twice. Why was she chucked out?

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Speaker 3: I'm still trying to figure that one out, Katie. I'm

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Speaker 3: sitting right behind Lena and listening and taking notice of

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Speaker 3: what was going on. I said the first one said

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Speaker 3: the Health Minister was on a rant criticizing the Cealpe Party,

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Speaker 3: our president stepping down at all sorts of bits of peace.

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Speaker 3: We actually asked a question about the Health miniss involvement

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Speaker 3: in the role case. And when Leah stood up just

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Speaker 3: to bring that point of order to say, this is

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Speaker 3: not about the celp's man management, It's about a question

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Speaker 3: provided to the minister, she was injected for an hour

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Speaker 3: or else. Quite taken aback. Leia was quite respectful in

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Speaker 3: her questioning and the way that she went about it,

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Speaker 3: but she was removed for now and then, and then

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Speaker 3: later when she asked another question later in the day,

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Speaker 3: she was removed again. I've started to feel a bit

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Speaker 3: left out, Katie. I haven't been training out yet.

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Speaker 1: Well, look, don't try and get yourself thrown out, Bill.

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Speaker 1: I think all anyone wants is for the opposition to

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Speaker 1: do their best to try and hold the government to account,

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Speaker 1: and I know that they certainly want the government to

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Speaker 1: you to be part of all of those debates and

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Speaker 1: to answer questions as well about issues which are important

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Speaker 1: to them. Bill.

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Speaker 2: Do you think that the government's got a problem with.

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Speaker 3: Scrutiny, Absolutely, Katie. It's been really evident this way you said,

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Speaker 3: we're going with asked very simple straightforward questions that territories

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Speaker 3: are coming to us with and they deserve very simple,

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Speaker 3: straightforward answers. But this government does everything that possibly can

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Speaker 3: not to answer those questions. Even to the point yesterday

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Speaker 3: we had our motion about crime and a public meeting

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Speaker 3: in Alo Springs. The government can't even have our emotions

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Speaker 3: on the table. They choose every time to change our emotions.

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Speaker 3: They take our motion and change it to something else

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Speaker 3: so they can stand up and pat themselves on the

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Speaker 3: back and tell the world all the great things that

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Speaker 3: they're seem to be not doing. Particularly for Central Australia.

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Speaker 3: It's really it's really quite embarrassing I think for government

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Speaker 3: are the fact that that they can't actually take criticism.

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Speaker 3: They don't like scrutiny. And I'll tell you what, Cadie,

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Speaker 3: the lab the Government are certainly transparent because we can

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Speaker 3: all see straight through them.

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Speaker 1: Well, I tell you what, Bill, I know that you know,

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Speaker 1: I had a crack at you guys last time parliament

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Speaker 1: sick sack, because I felt that you should have been

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Speaker 1: focusing on things that you know, that were important to Territorians.

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Speaker 1: So I'll have certainly happy to have a crack at

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Speaker 1: the government this time around because I do think that

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Speaker 1: they need to answer some of these questions that are

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Speaker 1: incredibly important to Territorians.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, that's for sure, Territorians. It's not as if we

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Speaker 3: sit around and we make these questions up. These are

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Speaker 3: questions coming to us from people on the ground, from business,

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Speaker 3: from everyday Territorians. So where they're representing them and the

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Speaker 3: government should be answering these very very simple, straightforward questions

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Speaker 3: because these are the questions that Territorians want the answers to.

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Speaker 3: The government do not want to provide those answers. They

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Speaker 3: want to dance and hide and avoid any reference to

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Speaker 3: anything that they may not be doing for Territorians, that's

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Speaker 3: for sure.

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Speaker 1: Well, Billyan, the Opposition spokesperson for Health We always appreciate

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Speaker 1: your time.

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Speaker 2: Thanks very much for speaking with us this

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Speaker 3: Morning, sarrisk do you have a great date