1 00:00:00,480 --> 00:00:04,640 Speaker 1: Hello there, It's Amantha here, the host of How I Work. 2 00:00:04,760 --> 00:00:09,480 Speaker 1: But today's show is not an episode of How I Work. 3 00:00:10,080 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: I'm actually interrupting How I Work normal proceedings to give 4 00:00:15,720 --> 00:00:18,599 Speaker 1: you a preview of a new show that I have 5 00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,160 Speaker 1: just launched with my closest girlfriend, Monique. 6 00:00:22,520 --> 00:00:23,280 Speaker 2: The show is. 7 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: Called How to Date, and it's a show that we 8 00:00:27,720 --> 00:00:32,600 Speaker 1: decided to launch because Monique and I are both about 9 00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:37,120 Speaker 1: one year out of our respective marriages. We are dating, 10 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:39,839 Speaker 1: immersed in the world of dating, not doing too well 11 00:00:39,880 --> 00:00:42,320 Speaker 1: at it, and so we thought, well, what better way 12 00:00:42,360 --> 00:00:46,879 Speaker 1: to get better at dating than to ask experts how 13 00:00:46,880 --> 00:00:50,720 Speaker 1: to get better at dating. So on How to Date, 14 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 1: we will be talking to all sorts of people from psychologists, 15 00:00:55,360 --> 00:01:01,280 Speaker 1: dating coaches, professors, data crunches at bumble, even sex basically 16 00:01:01,400 --> 00:01:05,920 Speaker 1: learning about how to improve our chances and your chances 17 00:01:05,959 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: of finding love online, how to date during a pandemic, 18 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,800 Speaker 1: and digging into the later science on how to attract 19 00:01:12,840 --> 00:01:16,760 Speaker 1: a great mate. So, if you're keen to improve your 20 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:19,639 Speaker 1: odds on the dating front, or maybe you know someone 21 00:01:19,720 --> 00:01:22,360 Speaker 1: that is, and get some practical advice about how to 22 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 1: get better at it, subscribe to How to Date wherever 23 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,760 Speaker 1: you listen to your podcasts and if you're keen to 24 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:32,959 Speaker 1: hear more. I'm now going to launch into our very 25 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:37,039 Speaker 1: first episode of How to Date, so I hope you 26 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:40,160 Speaker 1: enjoy it. Please send me your feedback if you like it. 27 00:01:40,280 --> 00:01:43,760 Speaker 1: Please search for How to Date in Apple Podcasts or 28 00:01:43,760 --> 00:01:47,760 Speaker 1: wherever you listen to this podcast and hit subscribe and 29 00:01:47,920 --> 00:01:52,480 Speaker 1: you will be notified whenever new episodes come out. And 30 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: while you're doing that, feel free to leave a review. 31 00:01:55,800 --> 00:02:00,680 Speaker 1: That would be so greatly appreciated. So introduce the How 32 00:02:00,760 --> 00:02:08,799 Speaker 1: to Date. Welcome to How to Date, a show about 33 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: how to master the messy, complex, and downright bizarre world 34 00:02:12,960 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 1: of dating when you really didn't think you'd be back 35 00:02:16,639 --> 00:02:21,320 Speaker 1: here again. I'm your host, doctor Amantha Imba. I'm a psychologist, 36 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:23,640 Speaker 1: I'm one year out of my marriage, I'm a mom, 37 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,240 Speaker 1: and I'm immersed in the world of online dating. 38 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:28,239 Speaker 2: Hi. 39 00:02:28,440 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 3: I'm also your host Monique Robin. I'm a mom of 40 00:02:31,960 --> 00:02:35,359 Speaker 3: four kids and a yoga teacher trying to find men 41 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,120 Speaker 3: who like me rather than my limber joints. 42 00:02:38,280 --> 00:02:41,960 Speaker 1: Welcome to our first episode, everybody. Monique and I have 43 00:02:42,440 --> 00:02:44,359 Speaker 1: known each other since we. 44 00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,240 Speaker 3: Were five years old. 45 00:02:46,560 --> 00:02:48,560 Speaker 1: We do everything together like best friends. 46 00:02:48,560 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 3: Do. 47 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:50,960 Speaker 1: We even got divorced at about the same time. So 48 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:55,120 Speaker 1: how's it that now this podcast came about because Monique 49 00:02:55,120 --> 00:02:58,040 Speaker 1: and I we're struggling. I would say, well, I mean 50 00:02:58,080 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 1: we're single, So that kind of goes to show that 51 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: we are struggling with online. 52 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:06,960 Speaker 3: Dating reader desperately feeling very pathetic. 53 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:09,800 Speaker 1: And it's like it's a whole other world. Like I 54 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:12,120 Speaker 1: didn't think I'd be dating again in my lifetime. I 55 00:03:12,160 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: thought I'd done with that in my twenties. 56 00:03:14,080 --> 00:03:16,560 Speaker 3: No, I'm so going to get married right first time round. 57 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: We thought we could host a podcast where we can 58 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,480 Speaker 1: bring in experts to learn about what are all the 59 00:03:22,560 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: questions that we have about how can we get better 60 00:03:25,760 --> 00:03:29,520 Speaker 1: at dating because clearly we're struggling right now, and we've 61 00:03:29,560 --> 00:03:34,320 Speaker 1: got an awesome guest on today's show. We found this 62 00:03:34,440 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: amazing clinical psychologist, doctor Yelena Ketchamanovich. She's based in Washington, DC, 63 00:03:41,400 --> 00:03:44,560 Speaker 1: and we learn all about how we can be more 64 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 1: successful in the world of online dating. 65 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:50,240 Speaker 3: Yeah, she had some really really practical take homes. 66 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: So before we get into the interview, I'm keen to 67 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,880 Speaker 1: hear about what's been going on in your dating life 68 00:03:57,000 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: this week. 69 00:03:57,680 --> 00:04:02,040 Speaker 3: Medique well, there was this guy that I met through 70 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 3: the bumbleap and I was messaging him and on his profile, 71 00:04:07,160 --> 00:04:10,760 Speaker 3: I thought, he seems like a really good guy. But 72 00:04:10,880 --> 00:04:14,080 Speaker 3: I definitely ascertained right from the outset I was not 73 00:04:14,320 --> 00:04:18,120 Speaker 3: physically attracted to him. He looked like a best friend 74 00:04:18,279 --> 00:04:22,240 Speaker 3: kind of guy. He was not my type, but I 75 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,520 Speaker 3: knew that he was normal, good person, and by normal 76 00:04:25,560 --> 00:04:26,760 Speaker 3: I mean just not a weirdo. 77 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,120 Speaker 1: So I thought, the bar's low. 78 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:32,360 Speaker 3: Well it is. You're right anyway, So I said to him, 79 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:34,839 Speaker 3: just because you know how, you asked these rudimentary questions. 80 00:04:34,880 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 3: And one of the questions I asked him is so 81 00:04:36,760 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 3: what are you up to right now? And he said, well, 82 00:04:39,680 --> 00:04:43,640 Speaker 3: I'm just shopping locally. And I knew we'd already ascertained 83 00:04:43,680 --> 00:04:45,240 Speaker 3: we lived near one another. And I said, oh, well, 84 00:04:45,279 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 3: I'm on Balaclava Road getting a coffee and he said, oh, 85 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,720 Speaker 3: shut up, I am too. I'm not joking. We were 86 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:56,919 Speaker 3: both on Balaclava Road. What yeah, yeah, yeah, So anyway, line, well, no, 87 00:04:57,000 --> 00:05:00,440 Speaker 3: because what happened was I said, Okay, let's meet at 88 00:05:00,440 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 3: the bagel shop. He's like, okay. So it progressed far 89 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,200 Speaker 3: quicker than my decision had progressed whether I liked him 90 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 3: or not, and I didn't do all the essential screening 91 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:13,160 Speaker 3: that you should do. So anyway, we went into this bagelshop. 92 00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,559 Speaker 3: I'm not literally two minutes in he was there. Wow, 93 00:05:16,560 --> 00:05:18,880 Speaker 3: And it was Lockdown number one. So we got a 94 00:05:19,360 --> 00:05:22,760 Speaker 3: coffee and we started walking, and the whole time, I'm 95 00:05:22,800 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 3: thinking to myself, oh my god, he's such a good conversationalist, 96 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:29,000 Speaker 3: but he's so not good looking. You know what I mean, 97 00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:33,680 Speaker 3: you know that dilemma. He's normal, but I'm not sexually 98 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:35,400 Speaker 3: attracted to it. What am I going to do it? 99 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 3: And we ended and he's like, oh, I really want 100 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 3: to see you again, and this and that, and then 101 00:05:40,279 --> 00:05:43,640 Speaker 3: Lockdown finished and I said to him, and I'm going 102 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:47,160 Speaker 3: to call him shower guy from here on in. Yes, 103 00:05:47,360 --> 00:05:48,239 Speaker 3: I will be revealed. 104 00:05:48,279 --> 00:05:48,520 Speaker 1: Okay. 105 00:05:48,880 --> 00:05:50,400 Speaker 3: I knew that he was a good guy. And I 106 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,640 Speaker 3: know this sounds dodgy. It was that brief period after 107 00:05:53,720 --> 00:05:57,160 Speaker 3: Lockdown but before the next one, and it was still 108 00:05:57,160 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 3: a bit weird to go out. So I said to him, 109 00:05:59,560 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 3: do you want to come to my place for a drink? 110 00:06:01,760 --> 00:06:04,320 Speaker 3: Somebody's like yeah, he jumped on that. And then anyway, 111 00:06:05,080 --> 00:06:06,800 Speaker 3: so I said, I can't even remember. I said, like 112 00:06:06,839 --> 00:06:10,240 Speaker 3: eight thirty pm for a drink. I get a knock 113 00:06:10,279 --> 00:06:12,400 Speaker 3: at my door. I'm dressed up like, looking like I'm 114 00:06:12,440 --> 00:06:15,040 Speaker 3: about to go clubbing, because you're excited to have social 115 00:06:15,080 --> 00:06:17,360 Speaker 3: interaction for a guy I'm not sexually attracted to. In 116 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:18,800 Speaker 3: my head, I'm thinking, am I going to kiss him? 117 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 3: I don't even know if I can go there, but 118 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:24,359 Speaker 3: we're going to become besties. He rocks up in like 119 00:06:24,600 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 3: active wear, sweating like a pig. I kid, you not 120 00:06:28,560 --> 00:06:33,480 Speaker 3: sweating like a pig with a backpack on for our date. 121 00:06:33,640 --> 00:06:39,000 Speaker 3: And I'm like, oh, hi, shower guy. And he's like, yeah, Hi, look, 122 00:06:39,200 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 3: don't mind me. I just needed to get my exercise 123 00:06:41,920 --> 00:06:45,000 Speaker 3: in and didn't see having i'd have time to do it. 124 00:06:45,000 --> 00:06:46,600 Speaker 3: Would you mind if I use your shower? 125 00:06:47,279 --> 00:06:48,000 Speaker 2: What? What? 126 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 3: And I said, Oh, I don't know. If I was 127 00:06:51,600 --> 00:06:55,520 Speaker 3: already borderline uncomfortable about inviting you to my place. You know, 128 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:58,839 Speaker 3: we discussed this, and you either have two choices, to 129 00:06:58,920 --> 00:07:02,640 Speaker 3: use my kids bath or to use my on sweet one, 130 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 3: which would mean walking through my bedroom. He's like, oh, 131 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:07,200 Speaker 3: I don't mind whichever one you would prefer, hang on? 132 00:07:07,320 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: Was there a third option? Go home, have a shower 133 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:11,080 Speaker 1: at your home, come back. 134 00:07:11,120 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 3: Well, he'd have to run whatever ten k's to do that. 135 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:17,040 Speaker 3: And that's also another thing, Amantha. Did that mean he 136 00:07:17,160 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 3: expected to get drunk and sleep at my place? Like 137 00:07:20,360 --> 00:07:27,160 Speaker 3: just saying so anyway? Seriously? So anyway, I said to him, ah, 138 00:07:27,200 --> 00:07:28,960 Speaker 3: and I thought about it, and all that sort of 139 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:31,440 Speaker 3: thought like get out of my house went through my mind. 140 00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:34,840 Speaker 3: And anyway, I said, you know what, okay, I said 141 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:37,040 Speaker 3: it really nastily and that really sort of you know, 142 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:41,240 Speaker 3: passive aggressive voice. Fine, you can use my shower. I guess. 143 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 3: He went into my shower, and I'm sort of listening 144 00:07:43,840 --> 00:07:46,240 Speaker 3: because I'm paranoid. I've got a stranger in my bathroom, 145 00:07:46,760 --> 00:07:49,520 Speaker 3: you know, and I'm hearing clanging of the doors of 146 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 3: the cupboards, and I'm thinking, what the F. And then 147 00:07:53,760 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 3: I'm like, you all right up there? He says, I 148 00:07:56,720 --> 00:07:58,480 Speaker 3: can't find a towel. 149 00:07:58,880 --> 00:08:00,880 Speaker 1: What he didn't a towel? 150 00:08:01,120 --> 00:08:02,800 Speaker 3: I said, what was in your backpack? 151 00:08:02,880 --> 00:08:03,200 Speaker 2: Really? 152 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:06,239 Speaker 3: You brought a backpack to my place? He's like, oh, 153 00:08:06,280 --> 00:08:09,960 Speaker 3: my clothes. And then I had to direct him to 154 00:08:10,040 --> 00:08:12,760 Speaker 3: my kid's bathroom, which happens to double as the linen clauses. 155 00:08:12,840 --> 00:08:15,360 Speaker 3: So he ended up having to go into my children's bathroom. 156 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 3: He gets a towel, he uses the towel, and so 157 00:08:19,400 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 3: with that, I'm hoping that's what the banging was for, 158 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:23,960 Speaker 3: to try and find the towel. And he came down 159 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,600 Speaker 3: smelling like a powder path with his new like dating 160 00:08:27,680 --> 00:08:29,640 Speaker 3: clothes on, and to be honest, it just land and 161 00:08:29,640 --> 00:08:32,480 Speaker 3: I went, nah, I can't do this. I wasn't sexually 162 00:08:32,520 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 3: attracted you him in the first place, and I just 163 00:08:35,520 --> 00:08:38,080 Speaker 3: thought I want him here because he's a good person. 164 00:08:38,120 --> 00:08:39,760 Speaker 3: I want to see if I can like a good person. 165 00:08:40,280 --> 00:08:42,599 Speaker 3: And he just wasn't a good person, Like that's not so. 166 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:46,080 Speaker 3: And so I said to him, I'm so sorry, shower guy, 167 00:08:46,280 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 3: but I can't do this. This has put a really 168 00:08:49,960 --> 00:08:51,640 Speaker 3: bad taste in my mouth. I'm gonna have to ask 169 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:52,200 Speaker 3: you to leave. 170 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:57,240 Speaker 1: So he's come downstairs, freshly showered, ready for the date. 171 00:08:57,520 --> 00:09:00,720 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you're saying go, I said go, I said go. 172 00:09:00,880 --> 00:09:01,559 Speaker 1: How did he react? 173 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:03,760 Speaker 3: And he goes, oh, like, I'm really sorry. Do you 174 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:06,640 Speaker 3: think he goes? Was I inappropriate asking for a shower? 175 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:08,720 Speaker 3: I said, I need to get some feedback on this, 176 00:09:09,720 --> 00:09:12,280 Speaker 3: but I do think it's inappropriate. Yeah, I do, but 177 00:09:12,320 --> 00:09:16,960 Speaker 3: I've lost my social parameters and barometers, so maybe you're appropriate. 178 00:09:16,960 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 3: And I said, I really don't know, but I need 179 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:20,640 Speaker 3: time to think about it, you know what I mean. Anyway, 180 00:09:20,679 --> 00:09:23,720 Speaker 3: He's like, oh, all right, so do you want me 181 00:09:23,800 --> 00:09:26,600 Speaker 3: to go? And maybe we can arrange another time. I said, yes, 182 00:09:26,679 --> 00:09:28,800 Speaker 3: I want you to go. Anyway, I decided to call 183 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,640 Speaker 3: him shower guy, but he's actually now becomestalker, so we 184 00:09:31,679 --> 00:09:35,720 Speaker 3: can alternate. Yeah, he's been ringing me, texting me, just 185 00:09:35,720 --> 00:09:37,480 Speaker 3: won't get the hints, so it's interesting. I had him 186 00:09:37,480 --> 00:09:39,120 Speaker 3: at my house because he was a nice guy and 187 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:40,920 Speaker 3: I thought I was a good judge of character. And 188 00:09:40,920 --> 00:09:44,120 Speaker 3: look what happened. Look what happened either way, freak experience. 189 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:47,199 Speaker 3: Absolutely lot about you. Have You had a good week 190 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:48,600 Speaker 3: on the dating scene? 191 00:09:49,520 --> 00:09:52,560 Speaker 1: A week? Oh, you wouldn't call it good. It started 192 00:09:52,559 --> 00:09:54,920 Speaker 1: off well though. So I'm matched with a guy on 193 00:09:55,080 --> 00:09:57,480 Speaker 1: bumble and I think I sent you his photo because 194 00:09:57,480 --> 00:09:59,920 Speaker 1: he looked like Hugh Jackman, and I was very excited. 195 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,440 Speaker 1: But I think when you say someone looks like a celebrity, 196 00:10:02,720 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: it's always slightly offensive because they're never going to be 197 00:10:05,960 --> 00:10:08,720 Speaker 1: as good as the actual celebrity. So he was let's 198 00:10:08,720 --> 00:10:13,400 Speaker 1: call him very important businessman. He thought he was. 199 00:10:13,640 --> 00:10:16,200 Speaker 3: An answer for you to call him very important businessman. 200 00:10:16,280 --> 00:10:17,080 Speaker 3: This is a story. 201 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,360 Speaker 1: So we're messaging, and I know for both of us, 202 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,840 Speaker 1: we've discussed this in terms of our dating funnel. One 203 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: of the aims is to get people off the bumble 204 00:10:26,960 --> 00:10:32,559 Speaker 1: app or whatever Apple dating pipeline, dating pipeline and onto WhatsApp, 205 00:10:32,640 --> 00:10:33,160 Speaker 1: because it's far. 206 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,240 Speaker 3: It's an important transition to make. 207 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:36,920 Speaker 1: It is. It's a big step, and a lot of 208 00:10:36,960 --> 00:10:39,200 Speaker 1: men fall down at that step. But anyway, I'd managed 209 00:10:39,240 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: to make that transition. You converted him, converted him, Yes, 210 00:10:43,240 --> 00:10:44,680 Speaker 1: So we exchanged a few. 211 00:10:44,679 --> 00:10:46,320 Speaker 3: Even as a very important businessman. 212 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:48,440 Speaker 1: Even as a very important businessman, I was happy to 213 00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:52,280 Speaker 1: make that transition. And then we're exchanging quite long text messages, 214 00:10:52,800 --> 00:10:55,240 Speaker 1: and he had this weird quirk where he would finish 215 00:10:55,280 --> 00:10:59,560 Speaker 1: his text messages with a rose emoji. Okay, like I 216 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:03,120 Speaker 1: was a actually contended and was giving me the roes. 217 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:07,280 Speaker 3: Yeah, okay, every extra you're so bloody luggy lucky it again. 218 00:11:07,559 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 3: You made it to the next round of textings exactly. 219 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:12,480 Speaker 3: So I'm a very important businessman. 220 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,040 Speaker 1: That's right. You should be happy. So he was you 221 00:11:15,080 --> 00:11:17,920 Speaker 1: know he was. He was very keen, which was slightly 222 00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,440 Speaker 1: off putting, and I wasn't sure if that was my 223 00:11:20,559 --> 00:11:23,680 Speaker 1: own self esteem telling me why is he so interested, 224 00:11:23,760 --> 00:11:25,880 Speaker 1: or whether it was something I was picking up, And 225 00:11:26,000 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 1: now that I look back on the experience, now that 226 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:30,319 Speaker 1: it has ended, it was definitely something I was picking up. 227 00:11:30,400 --> 00:11:34,480 Speaker 1: So we arranged to have a zoom chat, which, weirdly enough, 228 00:11:34,679 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: was in the middle of the day. Normally I do 229 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:39,800 Speaker 1: my zoom chatting at night, but he had calls with 230 00:11:40,080 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: Europe because he's a very important businessman, so we have 231 00:11:44,640 --> 00:11:46,480 Speaker 1: we arranged for a zoom chat in the middle of 232 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:48,800 Speaker 1: the day and I didn't have much time, so I 233 00:11:48,840 --> 00:11:52,360 Speaker 1: had a brief kind of window and then I had 234 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,440 Speaker 1: a few minutes before the chat, so I had time 235 00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:56,200 Speaker 1: to do my Google security chat. 236 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 237 00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:00,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, So I searched for him, and I search for 238 00:12:00,400 --> 00:12:06,120 Speaker 1: his company name, and I land on this website where 239 00:12:06,160 --> 00:12:10,880 Speaker 1: people can complain about really dodgy business practices, and there 240 00:12:10,960 --> 00:12:15,200 Speaker 1: are literally like over a hundred entries. I kid, you 241 00:12:15,360 --> 00:12:20,560 Speaker 1: did for him, people complaining about him and his business practice. 242 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:23,880 Speaker 3: It's making claims against him or yes, yeah, and he. 243 00:12:24,640 --> 00:12:26,040 Speaker 1: Had a lawsuit against that. 244 00:12:26,040 --> 00:12:27,320 Speaker 3: It's actually not funny. 245 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:28,520 Speaker 1: It's not funny at all. 246 00:12:29,440 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 3: It's not funny at all, but trust you to find that. 247 00:12:32,960 --> 00:12:34,800 Speaker 1: So he had a lawsuit, and he did explain that 248 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:37,960 Speaker 1: in one of the earlier texts. He said he was framed. 249 00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 3: Of course, so it wasn't his fault. It wasn't his 250 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,240 Speaker 3: fault because people wanted to destroy such an important man. 251 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,440 Speaker 1: Exactly how could the poor thing? He was a whistleblower 252 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:47,120 Speaker 1: for his industry. 253 00:12:47,200 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 3: Oh right, that's what he said. 254 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,840 Speaker 1: And so I find I find this website, I'm like, 255 00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: oh my god. And I've just committed to a zoom 256 00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 1: chat with him anyway, so I just thought, well, look it, 257 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,800 Speaker 1: tell it. I totally did it, and just to see 258 00:13:00,800 --> 00:13:02,920 Speaker 1: what sort of a person is this, Like is he 259 00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,160 Speaker 1: a classic narcissist? Because I think it's always good to 260 00:13:05,200 --> 00:13:07,760 Speaker 1: have experience with narcissists so that you can identify them 261 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: more easily. Yeah, So we have a fifteen minute zoom chat. 262 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: I keep the conversation one hundred percent on him. He 263 00:13:14,240 --> 00:13:16,599 Speaker 1: like vaguely tries to shift it off himself. 264 00:13:16,679 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 3: Can I just say one thing just to psychoanalyze this? Yes, 265 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:23,200 Speaker 3: I reckon, because clearly from what you're about to tell 266 00:13:23,240 --> 00:13:26,360 Speaker 3: me he's not a very important businessman. He probably did 267 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:30,240 Speaker 3: his Google research on you and he probably thought, oh, 268 00:13:30,280 --> 00:13:34,280 Speaker 3: this will validate my story dating this lab. You know, 269 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,400 Speaker 3: you are all just part of his very important businessman 270 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:40,520 Speaker 3: persona dating a very important business woman. 271 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:44,960 Speaker 1: Oh yes, anyway, continue anyway. So he's just he's reeling 272 00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,600 Speaker 1: off the most ridiculous things, like I said, you know, 273 00:13:47,640 --> 00:13:50,440 Speaker 1: how's COVID been for your business given that you can't 274 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,040 Speaker 1: do face to face meetings and consults anymore? And he said, 275 00:13:54,040 --> 00:13:56,760 Speaker 1: you know what, it's actually been great. We're saving about 276 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,839 Speaker 1: three hundred million in leases. I'm doing the maths in 277 00:13:59,840 --> 00:14:02,560 Speaker 1: my inventium has a lease in Melbourne where we pay 278 00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:04,520 Speaker 1: it's about one hundred and forty thousand a year. And 279 00:14:04,520 --> 00:14:06,760 Speaker 1: that's for a whole fun ability in a city that's 280 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,440 Speaker 1: in it, that's in the city, like in the best 281 00:14:09,559 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: part of Melbourne CBD. And I'm thinking, how many lisas 282 00:14:13,080 --> 00:14:14,959 Speaker 1: does he have to add up to three hundred million? 283 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,120 Speaker 1: Is that like three hundred million for the next fifty years? 284 00:14:18,400 --> 00:14:22,240 Speaker 1: What like we're talking major alarm bells and oh gosh. 285 00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:24,320 Speaker 1: And then he said, so I looked up your business. 286 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:25,800 Speaker 1: I can see that you know you do all this 287 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:28,680 Speaker 1: work about culture, and I said, yeah, yeah, we do 288 00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: a bit of that and anyway, so. 289 00:14:30,680 --> 00:14:34,000 Speaker 3: You get really dismissive when you're in that mood you 290 00:14:34,040 --> 00:14:36,600 Speaker 3: would have done yeah, yeah, like I. 291 00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:39,280 Speaker 1: Don't want to talk about me. I want to talk 292 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:42,120 Speaker 1: about it if you want to understand this very important 293 00:14:42,160 --> 00:14:45,560 Speaker 1: businessman who's very, very dodgy. Anyway, so we get off 294 00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:47,320 Speaker 1: the phone. I'm like, sorry, I got to prepare for 295 00:14:47,360 --> 00:14:49,360 Speaker 1: my next meeting. I got to go lovely chatting, and 296 00:14:49,560 --> 00:14:51,440 Speaker 1: at least he was good enough to go, well, if 297 00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:53,640 Speaker 1: you want to continue the chat, let me know. So 298 00:14:53,640 --> 00:14:55,200 Speaker 1: he kind of left the ball in my court, which 299 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:57,920 Speaker 1: I appreciated. And then I try to have a policy 300 00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,120 Speaker 1: of not ghosting, but sometimes life gets busy, I accidentally 301 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: ghost people. But he texted a couple of days later 302 00:15:04,080 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 1: and he said, look, I'm assuming that you're not keen 303 00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,720 Speaker 1: given the lack of messages, but you know, we've got 304 00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:12,120 Speaker 1: really aggressive growth plans and I'll definitely be calling on 305 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: you to help with the culture of the workplace towards 306 00:15:15,040 --> 00:15:18,400 Speaker 1: the end of the year. And I think, yeah, yeah, 307 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,240 Speaker 1: that'll be a client that will help. 308 00:15:20,520 --> 00:15:21,800 Speaker 3: Not did you respond? 309 00:15:22,040 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: I think I just responded with something innocuous like thanks 310 00:15:24,680 --> 00:15:34,000 Speaker 1: and best of luck. So that was my week in dating. Okay, 311 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 1: it is time to introduce today's guest, doctor Yelena Ketchmanovich, 312 00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:44,440 Speaker 1: otherwise known as doctor k. She is a clinical psychologist 313 00:15:44,520 --> 00:15:48,720 Speaker 1: and also an adjunct professor at Georgetown University in the 314 00:15:48,720 --> 00:15:54,000 Speaker 1: Psychology Department, and she's based over in Washington, DC. Doctor 315 00:15:54,120 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: Kay has over twenty five years experience as a psychologist 316 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:00,480 Speaker 1: and she's got a lot of single client clients who 317 00:16:00,480 --> 00:16:03,320 Speaker 1: are trying to navigate the world of dating, and for 318 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:07,720 Speaker 1: a lot of them, specifically online dating. Yelena also writes 319 00:16:07,720 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: for the Washington Post, Psychology Today, and the Chicago Tribune. 320 00:16:12,280 --> 00:16:16,000 Speaker 1: So let's head to our chat with Yelener. I want 321 00:16:16,040 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: to get stuck straight into it, and I know you've 322 00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,000 Speaker 1: written a lot about online dating, and what I want 323 00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:26,920 Speaker 1: to start with is what do people who are successful 324 00:16:26,960 --> 00:16:30,600 Speaker 1: at online dating, that are finding love at least for 325 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,600 Speaker 1: some period of time do differently to everybody else out there. 326 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:39,160 Speaker 4: There are few things that's successful, it's called them successful 327 00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:43,280 Speaker 4: online daters are doing differently, and first of all, what 328 00:16:43,360 --> 00:16:46,600 Speaker 4: they're doing is that they are taking it seriously for 329 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:50,280 Speaker 4: various reasons. A lot of people tend to approach it 330 00:16:50,480 --> 00:16:54,320 Speaker 4: kind of almost with ambiguity, with ambivalence. 331 00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:55,720 Speaker 2: They are ambivalent about it. 332 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:57,960 Speaker 4: You know, they might want to find a partner, but 333 00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:00,640 Speaker 4: maybe it's not the right time for them their life. 334 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 4: Maybe there's still a little bit of embarrassment or stigma 335 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:06,560 Speaker 4: about finding partner through online means. 336 00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:07,240 Speaker 2: There are a. 337 00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:11,199 Speaker 4: Lot of these, as we know, online and platforms and apps. 338 00:17:11,240 --> 00:17:14,080 Speaker 4: I mean, there's so many of them that it's almost 339 00:17:14,280 --> 00:17:17,239 Speaker 4: hard to be serious about any single one because you know, 340 00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,640 Speaker 4: you start this one and that's maybe not going that well, 341 00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:22,119 Speaker 4: and then you try another one and next thing, you know, 342 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:24,920 Speaker 4: you want five different apps. I mean, I have a 343 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:28,320 Speaker 4: lot of clients in the area where we practice, a 344 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:31,080 Speaker 4: lot of young professionals in their twenties and thirties, and 345 00:17:31,119 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 4: they might be on five six of these apps, and 346 00:17:34,119 --> 00:17:38,400 Speaker 4: it's very hard to approach then any single one of them. 347 00:17:38,240 --> 00:17:39,240 Speaker 2: Seriously, right. 348 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:44,119 Speaker 4: And people you know will also kind of have hazardly 349 00:17:45,080 --> 00:17:48,760 Speaker 4: write their profile and maybe just put a couple of pictures, 350 00:17:48,840 --> 00:17:51,120 Speaker 4: you know, just pick them up, not really vet them 351 00:17:51,119 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 4: with their friends, not take time to maybe even you know, 352 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,960 Speaker 4: choose the best photo of a recent photo hopefully or 353 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 4: even professionally take and photo and you know, not take 354 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:07,360 Speaker 4: time to be thoughtful and deliberate and sucsynct in their profile, 355 00:18:07,520 --> 00:18:08,320 Speaker 4: especially with. 356 00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:10,720 Speaker 2: Apps where you're allowed to write very little. 357 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,840 Speaker 4: As we know, uh, it's even more important right to 358 00:18:13,920 --> 00:18:17,280 Speaker 4: be to be you know, clever and maybe a little 359 00:18:17,280 --> 00:18:21,200 Speaker 4: funny and and and to be just really also thoughtful 360 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 4: and deliberate and honest about who you are and what 361 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:28,920 Speaker 4: your interests and qualities are, and also very much about 362 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:33,560 Speaker 4: what you're looking for. So I think there's successful daters 363 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 4: are first of all clear themselves that they're not ambivalent, 364 00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 4: they're clear what they want, that what they're looking for, 365 00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:43,879 Speaker 4: and then they take that step very seriously. 366 00:18:44,040 --> 00:18:47,640 Speaker 2: I mean, it's you know, uh, this may be a. 367 00:18:47,480 --> 00:18:50,119 Speaker 4: Myth that oh well, the only you know, dating shouldn't 368 00:18:50,160 --> 00:18:52,280 Speaker 4: be that much work, right if life is going to 369 00:18:52,320 --> 00:18:54,960 Speaker 4: find me, it's going to find me, and all these 370 00:18:55,000 --> 00:18:56,760 Speaker 4: myths that we have about dating in general. 371 00:18:57,040 --> 00:18:59,639 Speaker 2: But you know, in truth, you know, it is like 372 00:18:59,640 --> 00:19:00,600 Speaker 2: like big a job. 373 00:19:00,960 --> 00:19:04,679 Speaker 4: You know, you have to put time and effort and 374 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,520 Speaker 4: deliberation in it if you're going to have more success. 375 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:12,080 Speaker 1: Should we just be picking one app and just committing 376 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:14,400 Speaker 1: to that app as opposed to like some of your 377 00:19:14,440 --> 00:19:16,680 Speaker 1: clients who are on five or different. 378 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:20,040 Speaker 2: Apps, I recommend. I mean, this is just my rule 379 00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:21,800 Speaker 2: of time, no more. 380 00:19:21,800 --> 00:19:24,800 Speaker 4: Than two at the time, because anything more than that 381 00:19:25,240 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 4: ends up becoming this overwhelming choice. Right, even without one app, 382 00:19:30,880 --> 00:19:33,680 Speaker 4: depending how you use it, you can get into this 383 00:19:33,880 --> 00:19:37,800 Speaker 4: paradox of choice. Like paradox of choice is a psychological 384 00:19:37,800 --> 00:19:42,520 Speaker 4: phenomena very well described and researched originally by doctor Schwartz 385 00:19:42,560 --> 00:19:45,119 Speaker 4: at Samore College here in America. And the idea is 386 00:19:45,160 --> 00:19:47,760 Speaker 4: that you know, from no choice, when you go from 387 00:19:47,760 --> 00:19:51,720 Speaker 4: no choice to having some choice, generally, satisfaction tends to 388 00:19:51,760 --> 00:19:54,199 Speaker 4: go up, you know, not surprising, right what we know 389 00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,560 Speaker 4: that for example America being an example of the other extreme, 390 00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:00,679 Speaker 4: where you go to a grocery store and are you 391 00:20:00,760 --> 00:20:04,159 Speaker 4: one hundred and ten choices of detergents? Well, you know 392 00:20:04,640 --> 00:20:08,359 Speaker 4: that's the paradoxtial choice. After you know, satisfaction goes up 393 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:12,200 Speaker 4: a little bit. Increasing choice more actually leads to all 394 00:20:12,320 --> 00:20:13,880 Speaker 4: kinds of negative concect clances. 395 00:20:13,920 --> 00:20:17,199 Speaker 3: I can relate to that because I feel that I 396 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:20,600 Speaker 3: have seven or eight interests going on at once, and 397 00:20:20,680 --> 00:20:23,920 Speaker 3: I find myself in quite an engaging conversation with each 398 00:20:23,960 --> 00:20:25,840 Speaker 3: of them. But I also have four children, and I'm 399 00:20:25,960 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 3: very busy, and I might not realize that I've let 400 00:20:29,560 --> 00:20:33,440 Speaker 3: a conversation fizzle out until I maybe get a random 401 00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 3: piece of communication from that guy six weeks later, are 402 00:20:36,359 --> 00:20:39,439 Speaker 3: you ghosting me? And I'm like, oh my goodness, I 403 00:20:39,480 --> 00:20:42,160 Speaker 3: really I actually really liked him, but it just got 404 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 3: too overwhelming, the choice. 405 00:20:44,320 --> 00:20:46,720 Speaker 4: Too much, and it is really too much. You know, 406 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 4: in a Russian terms, we are not designed to be 407 00:20:50,160 --> 00:20:53,200 Speaker 4: able to actually make sort of you know, rationally best 408 00:20:53,280 --> 00:20:57,120 Speaker 4: choice among you know, one hundred detergents, let's say, or 409 00:20:57,640 --> 00:21:01,119 Speaker 4: you know, one hundred and fifteen profiles day right. And 410 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,399 Speaker 4: there's there's a very recent study from Touch researchers. Doctor 411 00:21:04,440 --> 00:21:09,720 Speaker 4: punk is a lead author, that actually simulated swiping in 412 00:21:09,760 --> 00:21:14,000 Speaker 4: their lab and they absolutely found, you know, this paradox 413 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:16,480 Speaker 4: of choice with dating. They were saying, the more people 414 00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 4: were swiping, the more they became dissatisfied that you know, 415 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:22,439 Speaker 4: most of the people they don't like that much, and 416 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,640 Speaker 4: then you know, this kind of general frustration. The satisfaction 417 00:21:26,320 --> 00:21:29,480 Speaker 4: was leading them to be more likely to reject, you know, 418 00:21:29,520 --> 00:21:32,880 Speaker 4: further prospect and to be less hopeful about finding somebody. 419 00:21:33,080 --> 00:21:36,880 Speaker 2: So they were just ending up in this very frustrated, unhappy. 420 00:21:36,520 --> 00:21:40,439 Speaker 4: Hopeless place, and so more choice was leading to actually 421 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:41,160 Speaker 4: less success. 422 00:21:41,280 --> 00:21:44,520 Speaker 1: Right, So how much time should we actually be spending 423 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:47,479 Speaker 1: per day or per week swiping? So we're kind of 424 00:21:47,560 --> 00:21:50,520 Speaker 1: not getting into that paradox of choice, and how many 425 00:21:50,560 --> 00:21:53,440 Speaker 1: people should we be conversing with at any one time. 426 00:21:53,960 --> 00:21:57,879 Speaker 4: It's very hard to put exact numbers. However, again we 427 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 4: can talk about ballparks again. You know, the trouble of 428 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:03,320 Speaker 4: a choice is not only that, you know, we don't 429 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:08,520 Speaker 4: end up being able to devote attention to the people 430 00:22:08,560 --> 00:22:12,480 Speaker 4: that we might be interested in, but we also end 431 00:22:12,560 --> 00:22:14,480 Speaker 4: up having harder time, you. 432 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:16,919 Speaker 2: Know, picking We end up being more picky, we. 433 00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:20,360 Speaker 4: End up having hard time picking few people, and then 434 00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,520 Speaker 4: we end up having harder time committing to them even 435 00:22:23,560 --> 00:22:25,760 Speaker 4: short term, because we always think, oh, there must be 436 00:22:25,800 --> 00:22:28,720 Speaker 4: something better, right, because there's oh, all these matches are coming. 437 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:31,320 Speaker 4: So for all those reasons, you know, it really it 438 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,679 Speaker 4: like sabotages even the incipient you know, new relationships with 439 00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:37,720 Speaker 4: that you may be forming as you as you are 440 00:22:37,840 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 4: talking to somebody you know, conversing via text and then 441 00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:44,720 Speaker 4: maybe meeting them these days on zoom. As you're doing that, 442 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,560 Speaker 4: you know, it's it's really important to limit other options. 443 00:22:48,560 --> 00:22:50,879 Speaker 4: So what we generally say, you know, one or two 444 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:56,280 Speaker 4: apps at a time, probably not checking more than twice 445 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,600 Speaker 4: a day, you know, not more twice then, and any 446 00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:01,760 Speaker 4: given sitting quote unquote maybe about fifteen minutes or so, 447 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:05,360 Speaker 4: not this constant like, oh, has he replied to me, oh, 448 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:07,600 Speaker 4: next fifteen minutes or next half an hour, next minute? 449 00:23:07,760 --> 00:23:09,600 Speaker 4: You know, Then it kind of ends up sipping into 450 00:23:09,640 --> 00:23:12,320 Speaker 4: your whole day and you just lose track of who 451 00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 4: are you talking with? 452 00:23:13,920 --> 00:23:16,680 Speaker 2: What have you told this guy versus the other guy? 453 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: You know? 454 00:23:17,240 --> 00:23:20,280 Speaker 4: Have keV you know replied to that one. Oh my god, right, 455 00:23:20,560 --> 00:23:21,440 Speaker 4: so short. 456 00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:25,160 Speaker 2: All the time. 457 00:23:25,760 --> 00:23:32,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, those lessons people of course never make. Oh yeah, 458 00:23:32,119 --> 00:23:34,800 Speaker 3: that's right. I think we're both killty if I'm being 459 00:23:34,840 --> 00:23:37,960 Speaker 3: a little bit more selective so that I don't burn 460 00:23:38,040 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 3: out with my overload of choices. And I say, how 461 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:47,360 Speaker 3: much to say physical attractiveness playing this? I've got two questions. 462 00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:49,880 Speaker 3: One is that okay, as a field like, am I'm 463 00:23:49,880 --> 00:23:54,120 Speaker 3: missing out on some perfectly good guys by say, hypothetically 464 00:23:54,160 --> 00:23:58,560 Speaker 3: setting my hype parameters certain that you know that would 465 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:02,879 Speaker 3: be if you were highest I'm am I doing myself 466 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:07,119 Speaker 3: an injustice or am I not giving myself you know, 467 00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:08,200 Speaker 3: choice overload? 468 00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 2: Yes, yes, and it's a great question. 469 00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,080 Speaker 4: Again, we do some have some really interesting research in 470 00:24:13,119 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 4: this area and it says this that not surprisingly, the 471 00:24:18,840 --> 00:24:21,080 Speaker 4: first part is not surprising, the second maybe it's a 472 00:24:21,080 --> 00:24:25,399 Speaker 4: little surprising. The first part is that most attractive people 473 00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,960 Speaker 4: and richest people get contacted by far. 474 00:24:29,880 --> 00:24:30,920 Speaker 2: The most online. 475 00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:34,439 Speaker 4: Not surprising, right, so we know that now, you know, 476 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:38,359 Speaker 4: does that mimic quote unquote real life. And this is 477 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:42,440 Speaker 4: where kind of the interesting finding starts, and that is that, 478 00:24:42,560 --> 00:24:45,800 Speaker 4: you know, yes to some extent, but not completely because 479 00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,639 Speaker 4: you know, imagine at the bar, right, there's a really 480 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:53,720 Speaker 4: hot woman, as you say, good looking woman, drinking by herself, 481 00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,240 Speaker 4: and then one guy who thinks he has a chance 482 00:24:56,320 --> 00:24:59,760 Speaker 4: comes and starts chatting her up, and maybe she actually 483 00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,200 Speaker 4: indulges him, right, And then maybe another guy's kind of 484 00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:06,840 Speaker 4: you like, you know, just kind of setting positioning himself nearby, 485 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:07,440 Speaker 4: and so forth. 486 00:25:07,720 --> 00:25:10,800 Speaker 2: A third guy, you know, especially. 487 00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,119 Speaker 4: If he's perceiving himself not maybe not as good looking, 488 00:25:13,480 --> 00:25:16,159 Speaker 4: is not gonna go and and try to break into this, 489 00:25:16,480 --> 00:25:20,480 Speaker 4: you know, into the situation because he has feedback from 490 00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,400 Speaker 4: the context you see he has feedback from the situation. 491 00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,879 Speaker 4: You know, in normal life contact well, whether it's a 492 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,880 Speaker 4: bar or whether it's a work settings and school settings 493 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,359 Speaker 4: where we you know, normally in the past with meet people, 494 00:25:32,200 --> 00:25:36,120 Speaker 4: you know, there are there a lot of these contextual cues, right, 495 00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:38,879 Speaker 4: and so you kind of calibrate in a way, you know, 496 00:25:38,920 --> 00:25:40,639 Speaker 4: are you going to have a chance with somebody you know, 497 00:25:40,760 --> 00:25:43,000 Speaker 4: the kind of at your level of attractiveness or maybe 498 00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 4: a little higher, you know, a little lower, but but 499 00:25:45,560 --> 00:25:48,560 Speaker 4: somewhere around whereas you know, when were sending messages, we're 500 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,919 Speaker 4: sending message into ether, right, there's no immediate feedback. I mean, 501 00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:53,760 Speaker 4: you know you might not get a message back, but 502 00:25:53,760 --> 00:25:56,400 Speaker 4: but you know people send hundreds and thousands of messages 503 00:25:56,440 --> 00:25:58,720 Speaker 4: that don't get messages back, so they keep trying, right, 504 00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:06,200 Speaker 4: So what happens is that that overwhelmingly attractive people, especially women, 505 00:26:06,600 --> 00:26:09,480 Speaker 4: get contacted by people, and. 506 00:26:09,720 --> 00:26:12,560 Speaker 2: You know, they don't respond. They get overwhelmed and they don't. 507 00:26:12,320 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 4: Respond to overwhelming majority of those pursuing them. So you 508 00:26:17,560 --> 00:26:20,119 Speaker 4: have a backlog and nobody wins. It's a kind of 509 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,560 Speaker 4: interesting thing to think about. So I think it is worthwhile, 510 00:26:23,800 --> 00:26:27,000 Speaker 4: you know, kind of trying to engage our you know, 511 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,840 Speaker 4: rational parts of our brain kind of preferntal cortex, and 512 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,840 Speaker 4: to say, you know, if I can glence anything from 513 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:37,359 Speaker 4: this profile in terms of what people have written about themselves, 514 00:26:38,240 --> 00:26:40,200 Speaker 4: and you know, if I'm intrigued by that, maybe they 515 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,360 Speaker 4: seem witty or funny or something like that. 516 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:44,320 Speaker 2: And maybe, you know, I'm not that. 517 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:47,120 Speaker 4: Attracted to their photo right now, but maybe I start 518 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,880 Speaker 4: chatting with them and you know, I start to kind 519 00:26:49,880 --> 00:26:52,560 Speaker 4: of get this sense that they have these other qualities 520 00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,199 Speaker 4: that again, in real life we besides looks, we usually 521 00:26:57,280 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 4: are very early on exposed to other qualities of people. 522 00:27:00,280 --> 00:27:04,200 Speaker 4: You don't see an online profiles. You don't see kindness, 523 00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:07,480 Speaker 4: you don't see, you know, the ability to emotion regulate, 524 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:09,520 Speaker 4: to be a good partner in a relationship. 525 00:27:09,560 --> 00:27:11,320 Speaker 2: You're not going to see any of that, right. 526 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:13,399 Speaker 4: And that's something in real life that we see in 527 00:27:13,440 --> 00:27:16,399 Speaker 4: addition to physical attractiveness. So we do take many more 528 00:27:16,720 --> 00:27:20,200 Speaker 4: characteristics in consideration. So I think it behooves us, yes 529 00:27:20,520 --> 00:27:22,680 Speaker 4: to you know, lower as you say, maybe a little 530 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,879 Speaker 4: bit lower our physical standards and see if something shows 531 00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:26,359 Speaker 4: up there. 532 00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: And I want to know, because Manique and I have 533 00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:32,439 Speaker 1: both in lockdown and so pretty much the only dating 534 00:27:32,480 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 1: that is available to people that are not in an 535 00:27:36,040 --> 00:27:38,800 Speaker 1: intimate personal relationship, I think is how the government are 536 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:41,760 Speaker 1: talking about it is video dating or foreign dating. And 537 00:27:42,000 --> 00:27:44,480 Speaker 1: I want to know, like, you know, if you've got 538 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:48,960 Speaker 1: chemistry on Zoom or whatever video chat you're using, does 539 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 1: that generally predict chemistry when you eventually meet face to face, 540 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:54,040 Speaker 1: assuming that you. 541 00:27:54,040 --> 00:27:59,920 Speaker 4: Do, absolutely as much as just looking at profiles does not. 542 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:02,440 Speaker 2: Predict actual physical chemistry. 543 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:05,919 Speaker 4: You know, at every level, the chances of you actually 544 00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:09,520 Speaker 4: hitting it off, you know, and feeling that click right, 545 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 4: So the lowest start just looking at profiles. If you 546 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,360 Speaker 4: start texting, okay, there's little more chance, but still there's 547 00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:19,360 Speaker 4: a huge gap between texting with somebody, especially casually, and 548 00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,600 Speaker 4: you know, clicking with somebody you know physically in person. However, 549 00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:28,320 Speaker 4: talking on the phone improves the chances of clicking in person. 550 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,560 Speaker 4: Zoom is as close as you can get to physical interactions. 551 00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 2: So yes, zoom is. 552 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:36,560 Speaker 4: I mean, you know, it's not perfect, but it's done 553 00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:39,680 Speaker 4: close to actually meeting somebody in person and seeing how 554 00:28:39,720 --> 00:28:43,280 Speaker 4: that goes. So I absolutely recommend that to my clients. 555 00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,440 Speaker 1: Something else I was interested in is the traditional gender 556 00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,640 Speaker 1: roles and what that plays in online dating because something 557 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:54,160 Speaker 1: I find in my career life, I'm sort of very 558 00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,160 Speaker 1: proactive and forward and you know, trying to be in 559 00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 1: control of things, and I find that sometimes that persona 560 00:29:00,920 --> 00:29:03,520 Speaker 1: leaks into my dating life. And I'm not sure whether 561 00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:07,320 Speaker 1: that's a good thing because don't guys want the chase? 562 00:29:07,560 --> 00:29:10,320 Speaker 1: Or is that a good thing? Because I've also heard 563 00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:14,720 Speaker 1: from men that they feel like women are perceiving them 564 00:29:14,800 --> 00:29:20,200 Speaker 1: to be a bit kind of predatory if they're you know, crying, I'll. 565 00:29:20,040 --> 00:29:25,360 Speaker 3: Just translate Amantha. Amantha is a natural born leader, and 566 00:29:25,520 --> 00:29:28,760 Speaker 3: she's just used to coordinating large groups of people into 567 00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:31,920 Speaker 3: her really busy life, and I think for her it's 568 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 3: hard for her to differentiate that in her personal life. 569 00:29:36,160 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 3: But is that okay to appear constantly assertive? Whereas I 570 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:42,440 Speaker 3: take the more traditional role of oh, I hope he 571 00:29:42,560 --> 00:29:46,040 Speaker 3: suggests the zoom and I hope he does. He hasn't 572 00:29:46,040 --> 00:29:48,800 Speaker 3: suggested one. And Amantha is like, you know, if I'm 573 00:29:48,800 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 3: free at twelve oh five, I'm going to get into 574 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:51,440 Speaker 3: zoom with me. 575 00:29:53,840 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 4: So, you know, excellent questions, and I have a couple 576 00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,239 Speaker 4: of answers to that. My first gun reaction is is 577 00:30:00,600 --> 00:30:03,480 Speaker 4: if you are a certain kind of person, then there's 578 00:30:03,560 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 4: really no point hiding it, even early on, because eventually 579 00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:12,080 Speaker 4: that guy, let's say, either likes a certain women or 580 00:30:12,080 --> 00:30:15,560 Speaker 4: he doesn't, you know, and so you know, pretending I 581 00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 4: think even a little bit that oh, you know, you 582 00:30:18,040 --> 00:30:20,840 Speaker 4: need to chase me, and I am somewhat kind of 583 00:30:21,240 --> 00:30:22,200 Speaker 4: passive or whatever. 584 00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:25,080 Speaker 2: It's just you know, my work for short term. 585 00:30:25,080 --> 00:30:28,400 Speaker 4: But eventually it's not gonna work because you know, there's 586 00:30:28,440 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 4: some guys who you know, don't go for that, and 587 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,080 Speaker 4: there are plenty of guys who do. So being yourself 588 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:37,360 Speaker 4: from the beginning is a much much better approach. 589 00:30:37,520 --> 00:30:44,480 Speaker 2: That said, I think that a huge trouble. 590 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:49,520 Speaker 4: We get ourselves in when online dating is texting via 591 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:53,400 Speaker 4: app or maybe once you exchange phone numbers, texting for 592 00:30:53,880 --> 00:30:57,120 Speaker 4: really long periods of time before meeting each other meeting, 593 00:30:57,160 --> 00:30:59,560 Speaker 4: and this can be even either be a zoom or 594 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,160 Speaker 4: in person. Right, That's that's the I think the biggest 595 00:31:03,160 --> 00:31:06,400 Speaker 4: problem that I see that people get into into these 596 00:31:06,480 --> 00:31:08,200 Speaker 4: you know, they call that conversations. 597 00:31:08,200 --> 00:31:09,160 Speaker 2: They're not really conversations. 598 00:31:09,200 --> 00:31:11,800 Speaker 4: The texting conversations you know, with this guy and number 599 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,040 Speaker 4: guy number one, and two and three and four and five, 600 00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:16,360 Speaker 4: and then I'll you know, I always ask my clients 601 00:31:16,400 --> 00:31:17,680 Speaker 4: and so how many. 602 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:18,800 Speaker 2: Have you actually met? 603 00:31:19,160 --> 00:31:22,800 Speaker 4: Well, you know, nobody in the last couple of months, 604 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:24,360 Speaker 4: So what is it this all for? 605 00:31:24,880 --> 00:31:25,120 Speaker 3: Right? 606 00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,640 Speaker 4: So, if after you know, a couple of days of 607 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,680 Speaker 4: you know, conversing via text, via app, uh, the other 608 00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,920 Speaker 4: person hasn't suggested that you meet again virtually on in 609 00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,800 Speaker 4: person suggested suggested, because that's the only way you're going 610 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,600 Speaker 4: to know if there's any promise here, if there's any click. 611 00:31:44,040 --> 00:31:48,440 Speaker 4: Otherwise it's waste of everybody's time and emotional energy, honestly, right, 612 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:49,400 Speaker 4: So it's. 613 00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:52,920 Speaker 2: Really I think it doesn't matter you know who you are. 614 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,080 Speaker 4: If the other person hasn't suggested, if you again want 615 00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 4: to take this seriously and want to increase your chances, 616 00:31:59,120 --> 00:32:03,360 Speaker 4: then just suggested, and you know, it's of course okay. 617 00:32:03,480 --> 00:32:05,880 Speaker 4: If the other person says, I am really busy, maybe 618 00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:07,680 Speaker 4: not this week and next week. But if they start 619 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 4: saying that again and again, and they start wiggling, you know, 620 00:32:11,120 --> 00:32:12,800 Speaker 4: not replying or wiggling out of. 621 00:32:12,720 --> 00:32:15,120 Speaker 2: The answer or keep postponing, you have your answer. 622 00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,720 Speaker 1: And I imagine, like, because I find when I'm messaging 623 00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,520 Speaker 1: with someone, I feel myself starting to project these imaginary 624 00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,840 Speaker 1: qualities onto them, which is obviously very unhelpful. I'm assuming 625 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,240 Speaker 1: that's why messaging back and forth is just not a 626 00:32:29,280 --> 00:32:30,360 Speaker 1: helpful way to go. 627 00:32:30,920 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 4: That's one of the big reasons, and there's actually some 628 00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,560 Speaker 4: interesting research about that as well. We absolutely create this 629 00:32:37,920 --> 00:32:40,440 Speaker 4: you know, imaginary it's called hello Hello effect. 630 00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:43,080 Speaker 2: We create this image. 631 00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:45,040 Speaker 4: A perfect image that I had, and we are more 632 00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:48,400 Speaker 4: likely much more likely to get disappointed because nobody can 633 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,520 Speaker 4: live up to this fantastical image. 634 00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:52,240 Speaker 3: And I know, I know. 635 00:32:52,360 --> 00:32:54,200 Speaker 1: Manique had one final question. 636 00:32:54,480 --> 00:32:58,680 Speaker 3: Okay, so this is something that I struggle with. Okay, 637 00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:01,520 Speaker 3: I made a in a bar, and I feel I 638 00:33:01,560 --> 00:33:05,640 Speaker 3: can present myself quite confidently, and we get talking, and 639 00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:08,480 Speaker 3: then my hope is that they get to know me, 640 00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:11,600 Speaker 3: they get to know my situation, and then they say, 641 00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,840 Speaker 3: once you know, it's clearly more than just meeting in 642 00:33:14,880 --> 00:33:17,960 Speaker 3: a bar, they then find out that I have four 643 00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:22,320 Speaker 3: children paged between eight and twelve. Now, I would hope 644 00:33:22,560 --> 00:33:25,920 Speaker 3: that any normal guy would go, WHOA, that's a lot 645 00:33:25,960 --> 00:33:29,560 Speaker 3: of baggage, because it is, and in a way I 646 00:33:29,560 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 3: would kind of be surprised if they were so instantaneously 647 00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:36,240 Speaker 3: accepting of that. Yet at the same time, I would 648 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 3: expect that they'd be open minded because everybody's situation is unique. 649 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 3: And I think it was in the context of ghosting. 650 00:33:43,240 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 3: Amantha and I were talking about when do you get ghosted? 651 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:49,360 Speaker 3: And she's like, oh, can't really pinpointed. The conversation just 652 00:33:49,400 --> 00:33:53,080 Speaker 3: fizzles off. I said, I find I mostly get ghosted 653 00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:55,640 Speaker 3: when they ask me how many children do you have? 654 00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 3: So what is too much to reveal? 655 00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,240 Speaker 4: Again, wonderful question, and that comes in play in all 656 00:34:04,360 --> 00:34:08,360 Speaker 4: kinds of situations because you know, what I want to emphasize. 657 00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:10,000 Speaker 2: Is we all have baggage. I mean, you know, you 658 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:10,960 Speaker 2: might say, oh, that's a lot. 659 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:13,000 Speaker 4: A lot of baggage is for kids, but that's also 660 00:34:13,560 --> 00:34:18,279 Speaker 4: something that makes you a really interesting person who obviously 661 00:34:18,640 --> 00:34:21,440 Speaker 4: you know, has has juggled so much in her life. 662 00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,040 Speaker 4: So you you know, immediately somebody might think, oh my god, 663 00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:27,240 Speaker 4: she's amazing. She's able to have, you know, a career 664 00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 4: and for children, and you know, imagine what kind of 665 00:34:31,320 --> 00:34:34,200 Speaker 4: qualities she must bring to the world, right, she must 666 00:34:34,200 --> 00:34:37,360 Speaker 4: be full of energy and incredibly capable. And so everything 667 00:34:37,360 --> 00:34:40,359 Speaker 4: can be interpreted in different ways depending on where you're 668 00:34:40,400 --> 00:34:40,879 Speaker 4: coming from. 669 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:45,480 Speaker 2: That said again, because so many. 670 00:34:45,200 --> 00:34:50,520 Speaker 4: Cues are missing from texting unless directly asked. I think 671 00:34:50,600 --> 00:34:54,520 Speaker 4: that some of these somewhat bigger revelations are best left 672 00:34:54,560 --> 00:34:55,920 Speaker 4: for meeting. 673 00:34:56,000 --> 00:34:59,160 Speaker 2: Again, I would normally say, face to face meeting. Now 674 00:34:59,239 --> 00:35:00,799 Speaker 2: we can say zoom. You know. 675 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:04,600 Speaker 4: I just think again that that any of these more revealing, 676 00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:07,880 Speaker 4: more intimate visis of information. You know, I just better 677 00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 4: communicated and received when we can see each other as 678 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:13,839 Speaker 4: facial expressions. 679 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:15,879 Speaker 2: So that's I mean, kind of again, rule of time, 680 00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:16,719 Speaker 2: the exceptions. 681 00:35:16,719 --> 00:35:19,640 Speaker 3: But I would say, I ask you directly, I guess you. 682 00:35:19,640 --> 00:35:21,560 Speaker 2: Have to then you have to. Yeah, I mean, well 683 00:35:21,560 --> 00:35:22,719 Speaker 2: you don't. You don't have to. 684 00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 4: I mean, people do lie. But of course that's not 685 00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:28,120 Speaker 4: ever a good idea because people will find out the 686 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:29,080 Speaker 4: truth eventually. 687 00:35:29,160 --> 00:35:29,359 Speaker 2: Right. 688 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 3: So, actually, with my children, you can hear them from 689 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 3: the next neighborhood. 690 00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 2: That's nothing wrong with that, nothing wrong with that. 691 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,000 Speaker 1: You could you could just be like a politician, Manique, 692 00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,160 Speaker 1: can just evade the question and answer the question you 693 00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:42,840 Speaker 1: want to answer. 694 00:35:43,239 --> 00:35:44,760 Speaker 2: That's true. That is true. 695 00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,719 Speaker 1: We are so out of time that has flown by. 696 00:35:49,239 --> 00:35:50,680 Speaker 1: I just want to say thank you so much for 697 00:35:50,719 --> 00:35:53,120 Speaker 1: your time and insight. Manique and I are definitely going 698 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:59,959 Speaker 1: to be better off. So, Renique, I loved that chat. 699 00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:02,480 Speaker 1: I want to know for you, what's the biggest takeout 700 00:36:02,520 --> 00:36:03,680 Speaker 1: for you from that interview. 701 00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 3: I would have to say what resonated with me was 702 00:36:08,520 --> 00:36:12,600 Speaker 3: her suggestion that we contain our search to maybe one 703 00:36:12,719 --> 00:36:15,600 Speaker 3: or two apps. I think that really resonated with me 704 00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 3: for the simple reason I find that even if I 705 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:21,840 Speaker 3: find a potential suitor that really hasn't showed any signs 706 00:36:21,840 --> 00:36:24,520 Speaker 3: of not being so, I kind of can tend to 707 00:36:24,560 --> 00:36:27,240 Speaker 3: lose interest because I've got seven or eight going at once. 708 00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,000 Speaker 1: How many apps are you on at the moment. 709 00:36:30,600 --> 00:36:34,320 Speaker 3: Oh, several? You know. Sometimes I'll focus on one, sometimes 710 00:36:34,360 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 3: I'll barely focus on four. But I think now I'm 711 00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 3: going to contain it to one or two and just 712 00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,200 Speaker 3: really make a pact with myself to be a committed 713 00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:46,160 Speaker 3: data to follow these communications through. 714 00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:49,000 Speaker 1: I think for me, the thing that I found most 715 00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:53,800 Speaker 1: encouraging was about zoom chemistry translating to real life. Because 716 00:36:53,880 --> 00:36:56,600 Speaker 1: right now we're in Melbourne, we're in lockdown, we're not 717 00:36:56,880 --> 00:37:00,400 Speaker 1: allowed to go on face to face eights and I've 718 00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:02,200 Speaker 1: been doing a lot of zoom dating and I do 719 00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:05,920 Speaker 1: always question, how does the chemistry translate, Will it translate? 720 00:37:06,440 --> 00:37:08,839 Speaker 1: So I liked that she felt very confident that it would. 721 00:37:08,920 --> 00:37:11,600 Speaker 3: Yeah, And I think that's really important for us to 722 00:37:11,640 --> 00:37:15,400 Speaker 3: have that confidence because we are in lockdown. We probably 723 00:37:15,440 --> 00:37:19,040 Speaker 3: are having multiple zoom dates with the one person, so 724 00:37:19,080 --> 00:37:23,880 Speaker 3: we can really maybe perhaps build a false sense of 725 00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:27,839 Speaker 3: who that person is if it isn't translatable, and get 726 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,759 Speaker 3: into deep so to speak, and then be really disappointed 727 00:37:30,800 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 3: in real life. So it's reassuring to know that perhaps 728 00:37:33,560 --> 00:37:34,480 Speaker 3: that won't be the case. 729 00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:39,719 Speaker 1: So one of the things that we're going to do 730 00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:41,520 Speaker 1: with How to Date is that Monique and I are 731 00:37:41,520 --> 00:37:45,080 Speaker 1: going to have a regular segment called the hot Tip segment, 732 00:37:45,239 --> 00:37:48,279 Speaker 1: where one of us will share something that has been 733 00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:53,720 Speaker 1: a super valuable strategy or technique that we've been using 734 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,000 Speaker 1: in our own lives. So Monique, I've got something to 735 00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:57,880 Speaker 1: share today. 736 00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:00,239 Speaker 3: Okay, good? Yeah, because you know, I don't I think 737 00:38:00,239 --> 00:38:03,319 Speaker 3: I've had any successful techniques this week, so I want 738 00:38:03,360 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 3: to hear your. 739 00:38:03,840 --> 00:38:06,160 Speaker 1: Tip, all right. So one of the things that I 740 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,120 Speaker 1: struggle with is that I've been doing a lot of 741 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,120 Speaker 1: zoom dating, and I can pretty quickly see if there's 742 00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,799 Speaker 1: a spark there or feel if there's a spark there, 743 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,239 Speaker 1: but then it gets really awkward to end it. I 744 00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: find that they sort of like most of my zoom 745 00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:21,359 Speaker 1: dates have been going for about an hour or. 746 00:38:21,280 --> 00:38:22,839 Speaker 3: So, right, that's a long time. 747 00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:24,879 Speaker 1: That's a long time, particularly if you know that there's 748 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,640 Speaker 1: no spark. So to be a bit more efficient with 749 00:38:28,680 --> 00:38:32,040 Speaker 1: the zoom date my hot tip. And I haven't tried 750 00:38:32,040 --> 00:38:34,120 Speaker 1: this yet. This is more something I'm going to try 751 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:37,640 Speaker 1: this week. And I don't know quite how I'll frame 752 00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,200 Speaker 1: this at the beginning, but almost to make a game 753 00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:42,520 Speaker 1: of it, to say to the guy, Okay, it's going 754 00:38:42,560 --> 00:38:44,719 Speaker 1: to be really obvious as to whether there's spark or 755 00:38:44,760 --> 00:38:47,040 Speaker 1: not in the first few minutes, So why don't I 756 00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 1: set the timer on my phone for ten minutes and 757 00:38:51,560 --> 00:38:55,080 Speaker 1: then at ten minutes we can just have an honest 758 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:57,880 Speaker 1: chat about whether we want to continue beyond ten minutes. 759 00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:00,520 Speaker 3: I love that, you know, I'll tell you why. I 760 00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:05,320 Speaker 3: love it. It's sufficient, but I also like it because 761 00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,320 Speaker 3: it's just something you would not do in your twenties. 762 00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:12,400 Speaker 3: It's very assertive, and I think that's actually very sexy. 763 00:39:12,880 --> 00:39:17,000 Speaker 3: So and it's fun. It's playful almost, So I'd love 764 00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,640 Speaker 3: to see how you go, and i'd be interested to 765 00:39:20,680 --> 00:39:23,480 Speaker 3: see what that does to the guy and how he 766 00:39:23,560 --> 00:39:25,880 Speaker 3: feels being put on the clock, so to speak. 767 00:39:26,160 --> 00:39:28,200 Speaker 1: Yeah, I know, I'll have to report back on that one, 768 00:39:28,320 --> 00:39:31,480 Speaker 1: and I appreciate your feedback. Assertive and sexy, they're good words. 769 00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:33,560 Speaker 1: I'm hoping it's not offensive. 770 00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:37,359 Speaker 3: No, not at all. I think that people liked to 771 00:39:37,400 --> 00:39:38,760 Speaker 3: not have their time wasted. 772 00:39:38,960 --> 00:39:41,000 Speaker 1: Yeah, awesome, Okay, well I'm going to report back on 773 00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:41,399 Speaker 1: that one. 774 00:39:41,480 --> 00:39:42,080 Speaker 3: I can't wait. 775 00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: All right, So that is it for today's show. If 776 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,480 Speaker 1: you have enjoyed how to Date, why not share it 777 00:39:51,520 --> 00:39:54,719 Speaker 1: with other people that you've think could benefit from some 778 00:39:54,800 --> 00:39:59,000 Speaker 1: of the advice that we are offering. And if you 779 00:39:59,160 --> 00:40:01,560 Speaker 1: enjoyed this episod so we would love to get your feedback. 780 00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:04,680 Speaker 1: Please leave us a review in Apple Podcasts or wherever 781 00:40:04,719 --> 00:40:08,640 Speaker 1: you listened to this show from and we will see 782 00:40:08,680 --> 00:40:09,680 Speaker 1: you next time. 783 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:10,600 Speaker 3: See you soon.