WEBVTT - Australia's worst known IVF mix-up

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<v Speaker 1>Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh,

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<v Speaker 1>now it makes sense.

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<v Speaker 2>Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday,

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<v Speaker 2>the sixteenth of April. I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy Fitzimon's.

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<v Speaker 2>The story of an IVF mix up that led to

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<v Speaker 2>a woman giving birth to a stranger's baby has made

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<v Speaker 2>global headlines this month. The shocking incident might sound like

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<v Speaker 2>something out of a movie, or certainly something from another country,

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<v Speaker 2>but it has unfolded right here in Australia. The Queensland

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<v Speaker 2>Fertility Clinic at its center monash IVF in Brisbane, has

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<v Speaker 2>launched an investigation, but ultimately has blamed the mix up

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<v Speaker 2>on human error. In today's deep dive, we are going

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<v Speaker 2>to explore the legal questions raised by this mistake and

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<v Speaker 2>the ramifications it could have for the fertility industry.

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<v Speaker 3>Now, this story has captured international attention and it's easy

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<v Speaker 3>to understand why I have never heard of anything like

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<v Speaker 3>this happening yet before. Before we explain the fallout and

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<v Speaker 3>what it means for the families and also the clinic involved,

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<v Speaker 3>do you want to just take us through and what

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<v Speaker 3>exactly happened here?

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<v Speaker 1>Yes?

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<v Speaker 2>So last week this shocking story broke where we learned

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<v Speaker 2>that a Brisbane fertility clinic is investigating after it found

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<v Speaker 2>out that a woman gave birth to a baby that

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<v Speaker 2>wasn't biologically hers. So that woman was a patient of

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<v Speaker 2>this clinic, Monash IVF, undergoing treatment there for in vitro fertilization,

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<v Speaker 2>and during that process she was implanted with the wrong embryo,

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<v Speaker 2>a fertilized egg that belonged to another couple also doing

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<v Speaker 2>IVF through Monash in Brisbane at that clinic. Now, in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of IVF in Australia where things are at, we're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about the most commonly used form of assisted reproductive

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<v Speaker 2>technology in the country. To give you a sense of

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<v Speaker 2>how popular it is, there are around nineteen thousand babies

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<v Speaker 2>born through IVF in Australia every year, and as a country,

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<v Speaker 2>we really are considered one of the world leaders in

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<v Speaker 2>this space. We're considered to be one of the safest

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<v Speaker 2>places in the world to have a baby through IVF.

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<v Speaker 3>I think that's part of what makes this so shocking,

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<v Speaker 3>is just how common IVF is in Australia. Yeah, and

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<v Speaker 3>I think the question that everyone has, I know I have,

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<v Speaker 3>is how did this possibly happen. And at what point

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<v Speaker 3>did they realize that this woman had been implanted with

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<v Speaker 3>the wrong embryo.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, so it was this result of an incorrect transfer

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<v Speaker 2>of an embryo. Now, if you're going through IVF for

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<v Speaker 2>couples doing IVF, the process might involve egg dodonation and

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<v Speaker 2>sperm donation and then fertilizing an embryo externally outside of

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<v Speaker 2>the body. Through IVF, that embryo gets transplanted into the

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<v Speaker 2>womb and hopefully a person falls pregnant through that process. Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>the clinic said that in February it learned that one

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<v Speaker 2>of its patients had been implanted with the wrong embryo,

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<v Speaker 2>with an embryo that was not her own. And I

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<v Speaker 2>think everyone really wants this to be more controversial or

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<v Speaker 2>a more satisfying kind of reason for why or how

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<v Speaker 2>this happened, but they've put it down to human error. Basically,

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<v Speaker 2>that's all we know about why this happened. And in

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<v Speaker 2>terms of how they found out, the woman involved wanted

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<v Speaker 2>to transfer her remaining embryos to another IVF provider, so

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<v Speaker 2>she had an embryo implanted. She had a pregnancy that

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<v Speaker 2>went to full term, she gave birth to a baby.

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<v Speaker 2>And then this couple said to Monash IVF, hey, can

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<v Speaker 2>you please send out embryos somewhere else?

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<v Speaker 1>And when Monash.

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<v Speaker 2>IVF looked at those embryos, there were an unexpected number,

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<v Speaker 2>so they found out that there were extra embryos in

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<v Speaker 2>storage of those birth parents. That then led to an

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<v Speaker 2>internal investigation that confirmed that an embryo from a different

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<v Speaker 2>cup had been incorrectly thawed and transferred to the birth parents,

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<v Speaker 2>resulting in the birth of the child. Monash says that

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<v Speaker 2>it is truly sorry and it's now conducting a full

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<v Speaker 2>review of its processes.

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<v Speaker 3>My goodness, you can't even imagine how it must have felt.

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<v Speaker 3>A when they discovered that that mistake had been made. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 3>but then B when the family was told that the

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<v Speaker 3>wrong embryo had been implanted in.

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<v Speaker 1>Them, Oh, devastating.

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<v Speaker 2>And after having gone through a full pregnancy and birth process.

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<v Speaker 1>Couples who use.

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<v Speaker 2>IVF, you know, typically it's not easy for them to conceive,

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<v Speaker 2>so to jump through so many hurdles and get to

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<v Speaker 2>that point, I'm sure was completely earth shattering.

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<v Speaker 3>And just to be clear, so we know that they

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<v Speaker 3>discovered this in February, and at that point the woman

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<v Speaker 3>had already given birth and they were raising this baby.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So we don't have any information on the age

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<v Speaker 2>of the baby or the names of the couples and

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<v Speaker 2>families involved.

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<v Speaker 1>Those details have been kept private.

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<v Speaker 2>We really don't know how old this child is, but

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<v Speaker 2>the clinic have referred to this embryo and a baby,

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<v Speaker 2>so you know, we can assume that it's probably happened

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<v Speaker 2>within the last year.

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<v Speaker 3>And do we know what happens now, not just what

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<v Speaker 3>action was taken once they found out that this mistake

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<v Speaker 3>had been made, but also what happens now to the baby.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, So the clinic has been really transparent over the

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<v Speaker 2>last week in terms of what it's doing, what it's done,

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<v Speaker 2>and what it plans to do going forward. Its executive

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<v Speaker 2>team was alerted within hours of that discovery in February,

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<v Speaker 2>and then the regulator, which is the Fertility Society of

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<v Speaker 2>Australia and New Zealand, was also notified that same week.

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<v Speaker 2>So this has all been bubbling under the surface since February,

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<v Speaker 2>but we the public have obviously only learned about it

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<v Speaker 2>in the last week. In a statement, Monashe IVF said

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<v Speaker 2>an independent investigation is now underway alongside full process reviews

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<v Speaker 2>of its laboratory safety measures. Medical Groups CEO Michael Knapp

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<v Speaker 2>said the clinic has apologized to everyone involved and said

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<v Speaker 2>ongoing support will be provided to the parents. He added

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<v Speaker 2>that while the clinic is quote devastated, it is confident

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<v Speaker 2>that this was an isolated incident, but the whole debarcle

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<v Speaker 2>has really raised questions about what happens next for these families,

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<v Speaker 2>what it's going to mean from a legal perspective, who

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<v Speaker 2>gets custody, have any laws been broken, Will Monash be

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<v Speaker 2>sued or even face criminal action, etc.

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<v Speaker 3>Usually when we look at what the legalities around a

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<v Speaker 3>case are, we will look at the precedents or to

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<v Speaker 3>see if anything like this has happened before.

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<v Speaker 1>Has anything like this has happened before?

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<v Speaker 2>So adding to the uncertainty, I suppose, is the fact

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<v Speaker 2>that this incident is thought to be the first of

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<v Speaker 2>its kind in Australia. So there are no known examples

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<v Speaker 2>that have happened within Australia, but there are a few

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<v Speaker 2>international examples that could provide a bit of a roadmap

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<v Speaker 2>for the way forward. Mind you, they all come out

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<v Speaker 2>of the US, these recent examples. So in twenty twenty one,

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<v Speaker 2>a similar mix up occurred in the state of California.

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<v Speaker 2>Two couples went through a clinic there and they ended

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<v Speaker 2>up raising babies that weren't biologically theirs for three months

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<v Speaker 2>before the error was detected. They did end up swapping

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<v Speaker 2>custody of the children, but both families sued that clinic,

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<v Speaker 2>and one family went public speaking about the psychological harm

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<v Speaker 2>that came from the incident. They said it was incredibly

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<v Speaker 2>traumatizing to go through. Also in California, a couple of

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<v Speaker 2>years earlier, in a separate clinic, there was a mix up.

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<v Speaker 2>That clinic was sued by a couple overclaims their embryo

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<v Speaker 2>was mistakenly implanted in a different woman who gave birth

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<v Speaker 2>to their son in twenty nineteen. And then more recently,

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<v Speaker 2>a woman in Georgia in the US sued a clinic

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<v Speaker 2>she had gone through IVF. She is a white woman,

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<v Speaker 2>her sperm donor was also white, but she gave birth

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<v Speaker 2>to a baby of African American appearance, and that's how

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<v Speaker 2>that particular mix up ended up coming to light. But

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<v Speaker 2>they all have very similar kind of origins and do

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<v Speaker 2>relate to what's gone on here in Queensland. But while

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<v Speaker 2>there are those concerning examples out of the US, this

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<v Speaker 2>is so rare and even rarer in Australia, to the

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<v Speaker 2>point of you know, Monash IVF in their response pointing

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<v Speaker 2>out that this is quote an isolated incident, which you know,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm sure everyone hopes that that is absolutely true.

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<v Speaker 3>What has the response been like within the assisted fertility

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<v Speaker 3>industry to this story?

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<v Speaker 2>So we have heard from that regulator that I mentioned earlier,

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<v Speaker 2>the Fertility Society of Australia and New Zealand FSA and

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<v Speaker 2>Z i'll call them. It's a body that sets out

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<v Speaker 2>the standards and regulations for assisted reproductive technology in Australia.

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<v Speaker 2>It's released a statement that said, quote the trust patient's

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<v Speaker 2>place in our profession is sacred and we must continually

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<v Speaker 2>earn it through clear governance, shared responsibility and action. We

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<v Speaker 2>ask that the privacy of the families involved is respected

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<v Speaker 2>during this time as they work through what is undoubtedly

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<v Speaker 2>a complex and personal situation. But this has reignited conversation

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<v Speaker 2>about how IVF is regulated in Australia and safeguards and

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<v Speaker 2>what those are and how they protect patients and babies.

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<v Speaker 2>FSA and Z has actually been calling for a national roadmap.

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<v Speaker 2>This is well before this mix up unfolded. They are

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<v Speaker 2>calling for this decade long roadmap to future proof the

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<v Speaker 2>assisted fertility sector and to boost support for all families,

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<v Speaker 2>including non traditional families. And in September last year, it

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<v Speaker 2>actually handed down a review of the fertility sector. It

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<v Speaker 2>called for urgent reforms to address a raft of issues,

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<v Speaker 2>including the falling birth rate and access and cost. But

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<v Speaker 2>in terms of its relevancy for this story this week,

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<v Speaker 2>this tenire National Fertility Roadmap includes calls for national fertility

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<v Speaker 2>legislation to streamline regulations that differ between states and terror. Now,

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<v Speaker 2>I didn't realize that those regulations differed between the states

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<v Speaker 2>and territories, but f SA and Z called current inconsistencies

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<v Speaker 2>a primary concern that significantly impact children, parents, donors, and

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<v Speaker 2>assisted reproductive technology in general. So this report called on

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<v Speaker 2>health ministers to support the roadmap and ensure consistent legislation

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<v Speaker 2>across the nation to lead to improved and more equitable

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<v Speaker 2>outcomes for Australian families.

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<v Speaker 3>You saying that has caused a light bulb moment in

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<v Speaker 3>my head, and I'm pretty sure we actually did cover

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<v Speaker 3>it last September. We did when it came out, So

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<v Speaker 3>we will put a link to that in the show notes.

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<v Speaker 3>But m how would more regulation in the industry have

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<v Speaker 3>potentially reduced the risk of what happened in Queensland happening.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's a really good question and I think there

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<v Speaker 2>is no clear cut answer given how I suppose, well,

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<v Speaker 2>the industry is perceived on a global scale to function

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<v Speaker 2>and operate here in Australia.

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<v Speaker 1>But from these proposed.

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<v Speaker 2>Regulations, I think it's about centralizing standards and practices so

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<v Speaker 2>that every state and territory is working consistently to the

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<v Speaker 2>same level and adhering to the same kind of regulations. So,

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<v Speaker 2>for example, this report suggested establishing a national register and

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<v Speaker 2>a genetic bank to centralized genetic information of donors and

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<v Speaker 2>donor conceived children. It recommended national health standards for egg

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<v Speaker 2>and sperm donation to ensure consistency and quote safe futures

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<v Speaker 2>for children conceived by IVF and the regulator argues that

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<v Speaker 2>these approaches, among other suggestions, would ensure consistent reproductive and

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<v Speaker 2>privacy standards around the country now. At the time last

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<v Speaker 2>September when this report was handed down, the government said

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<v Speaker 2>that it would carefully consider the proposed framework. That we

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<v Speaker 2>haven't heard much since, and Shadow Health Minister Ann Rustin

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<v Speaker 2>at the time acknowledged that more work was needed to

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<v Speaker 2>improve policies.

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<v Speaker 3>And so, do we know what will happen to the

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<v Speaker 3>custody of this child and is there anything within existing

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<v Speaker 3>Australian legislation that kind of sets out a roadmap when

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<v Speaker 3>this kind of thing happens, Although you did say that

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<v Speaker 3>this has never happened before.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, this is where an already complex story probably gets

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<v Speaker 2>even trickier because in Australia, biology and genetics don't actually

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<v Speaker 2>determine who has the right to parent a child. And

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<v Speaker 2>what that means in this instance is that we could

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<v Speaker 2>be in for a really complicated custody battle. The child's

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<v Speaker 2>biological parents have rights, but so does the birth mother,

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<v Speaker 2>and this split between birth parents versus biological parents becomes

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<v Speaker 2>quite crucial. And under Australian law, whoever gives birth to

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<v Speaker 2>the child is the legal mother. So there are obviously

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<v Speaker 2>so many moral and ethical questions as well as the

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<v Speaker 2>legal ones.

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<v Speaker 1>Raised by this issue.

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<v Speaker 2>And because we have very little information about the families

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<v Speaker 2>at the center of this case, it's really unclear as

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<v Speaker 2>to what the path forward in terms of custody could

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<v Speaker 2>look like if we look to the US example, there

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<v Speaker 2>was that bungle where a family agreed amicably to swap children.

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<v Speaker 2>We're talking about one baby here, two sets of families involved.

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<v Speaker 2>It's I'm sure going to be incredibly complex.

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<v Speaker 3>And you mentioned that IVF regulations differ state by state.

0:13:23.679 --> 0:13:26.319
<v Speaker 3>What's the state of play in Queensland. Is there anything

0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.080
<v Speaker 3>that we know about the state that could impact the

0:13:29.120 --> 0:13:30.360
<v Speaker 3>next steps of this case.

0:13:30.880 --> 0:13:35.040
<v Speaker 2>So Queensland has actually faced its share of IVF controversies

0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.160
<v Speaker 2>over recent years. It has led to some reform, but

0:13:39.559 --> 0:13:41.959
<v Speaker 2>I suppose there has been a little bit of bad

0:13:42.000 --> 0:13:45.640
<v Speaker 2>pr back to back for the industry in Queensland. Specifically.

0:13:46.280 --> 0:13:49.720
<v Speaker 2>You might remember mid last year we covered a story

0:13:49.840 --> 0:13:54.840
<v Speaker 2>about thousands of frozen sperm donations being destroyed in Queensland.

0:13:55.080 --> 0:13:56.000
<v Speaker 3>I do remember that.

0:13:56.280 --> 0:13:59.280
<v Speaker 2>I thought you might very sharp. She's got a good Philly.

0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:03.599
<v Speaker 2>So the Health ovidsman in Queensland actually launched an investigation

0:14:03.800 --> 0:14:06.959
<v Speaker 2>into fertility service providers in the state after there were

0:14:07.200 --> 0:14:11.720
<v Speaker 2>several complaints from patients of alleged misconduct across the board.

0:14:11.720 --> 0:14:14.360
<v Speaker 2>Now this wasn't about one provider specifically, it was a

0:14:14.400 --> 0:14:17.880
<v Speaker 2>series of complaints and a trend that reflected concerns within

0:14:17.920 --> 0:14:22.560
<v Speaker 2>the industry. So that investigation examined data from sperm donations

0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:24.240
<v Speaker 2>over the past decade.

0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:26.040
<v Speaker 1>It looked into twenty four.

0:14:25.800 --> 0:14:30.120
<v Speaker 2>Clinics who were licensed to provide IVF and the regulator

0:14:30.160 --> 0:14:35.480
<v Speaker 2>identified severe gaps and risks in the industry. Evidence from

0:14:35.680 --> 0:14:40.040
<v Speaker 2>hundreds of complaints included the misplacement of sperm and eggs,

0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:44.160
<v Speaker 2>the use of incorrect embryos, and mix ups in sperm samples.

0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:48.640
<v Speaker 2>It also identified screening issues for donors and challenges and

0:14:48.680 --> 0:14:53.440
<v Speaker 2>shortcomings in record keeping. For example, quote failure to maintain

0:14:53.560 --> 0:14:57.680
<v Speaker 2>accurate contact details for donors, an inadequate disclosure of medical

0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.760
<v Speaker 2>information to donor conceived children and recipients.

0:15:00.880 --> 0:15:03.520
<v Speaker 3>Wow, how did the Queensland government respond?

0:15:03.600 --> 0:15:07.240
<v Speaker 2>It was quite a damning report and following the Queensland

0:15:07.280 --> 0:15:10.320
<v Speaker 2>Government actually passed the state's first law on.

0:15:10.320 --> 0:15:12.240
<v Speaker 1>Assisted reproductive technology.

0:15:12.360 --> 0:15:15.920
<v Speaker 2>So under those laws, Queensland Health now has the power

0:15:16.040 --> 0:15:20.200
<v Speaker 2>to inspect IVF providers. The government has also launched a

0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:24.480
<v Speaker 2>Donor Conception Information Register to hold details about procedures in

0:15:24.520 --> 0:15:28.240
<v Speaker 2>the state and when live births occur that are linked

0:15:28.240 --> 0:15:31.240
<v Speaker 2>to IVF. So there has been a bit of an overhaul.

0:15:31.240 --> 0:15:33.600
<v Speaker 2>But to your earlier question, you know whether or not

0:15:33.640 --> 0:15:37.320
<v Speaker 2>that would have prevented this mishandling or all this mix up.

0:15:37.440 --> 0:15:40.000
<v Speaker 3>You know who could say, and back to this case.

0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:43.840
<v Speaker 3>Just lastly, what has been the fallout for Monash IVF.

0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:48.440
<v Speaker 2>Yes, so, monasch IVF is a really huge provider in

0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:51.760
<v Speaker 2>the IVF space. They run clinics right around the country,

0:15:51.800 --> 0:15:54.640
<v Speaker 2>so we're talking about their Brisbane clinic, but this is

0:15:54.680 --> 0:15:58.720
<v Speaker 2>a national organization. You may have actually heard of them

0:15:58.840 --> 0:16:03.080
<v Speaker 2>before because there was a major class action settled last

0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.920
<v Speaker 2>year involving Monash IVF. The provider was accused by more

0:16:06.920 --> 0:16:11.080
<v Speaker 2>than seven hundred complainants of using inaccurate genetic testing and

0:16:11.280 --> 0:16:16.160
<v Speaker 2>destroying potentially viable embryos. So at that time last year,

0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:19.520
<v Speaker 2>Monash agreed to a fifty six million dollar settlement. The

0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:24.080
<v Speaker 2>fallout from that was quite public and there were a

0:16:24.120 --> 0:16:26.440
<v Speaker 2>lot of on the record conversations in the media at

0:16:26.440 --> 0:16:28.560
<v Speaker 2>the time from those seven hundred people who brought the

0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:33.600
<v Speaker 2>action condemning Monash's practices. In terms of the legal action

0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.760
<v Speaker 2>it could face in the future, we still don't know.

0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:39.360
<v Speaker 2>But this is a publicly listed company and their share

0:16:39.400 --> 0:16:43.920
<v Speaker 2>price has fallen dramatically in the days since this news

0:16:44.000 --> 0:16:47.400
<v Speaker 2>came to light so huge ramifications for a very large

0:16:47.400 --> 0:16:50.920
<v Speaker 2>corporation there. We have heard from Queensland Health Minister Tim

0:16:51.000 --> 0:16:54.240
<v Speaker 2>Nichols who says the government is watching Monash's handling of

0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:57.440
<v Speaker 2>this current controversy closely and based on that it will

0:16:57.440 --> 0:16:59.840
<v Speaker 2>assess how to proceed and if it's going to use

0:16:59.840 --> 0:17:03.960
<v Speaker 2>those new powers to monitor the clinics specifically. He said,

0:17:04.080 --> 0:17:06.919
<v Speaker 2>we stand ready to provide whatever support we can to

0:17:06.960 --> 0:17:10.560
<v Speaker 2>the families to resolve this terrible, terrible situation. As the

0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.200
<v Speaker 2>regulator in the future, we will be ensuring that these

0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.439
<v Speaker 2>organizations do everything they can to make sure this terrible

0:17:16.480 --> 0:17:19.679
<v Speaker 2>type of event does not occur in the future. In

0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:22.400
<v Speaker 2>a statement on Friday, Queensland Health said it would work

0:17:22.480 --> 0:17:27.320
<v Speaker 2>with Monash IVF to reinforce safeguards and identify possible risks.

0:17:27.920 --> 0:17:31.240
<v Speaker 3>Wow, it's something that we will absolutely be keeping our

0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:33.880
<v Speaker 3>eye on as any more information comes out.

0:17:34.160 --> 0:17:36.320
<v Speaker 1>Thanks for explaining it, em Thanks for having me.

0:17:36.400 --> 0:17:38.879
<v Speaker 3>I have to say before we leave this entire podcast,

0:17:38.960 --> 0:17:41.120
<v Speaker 3>I've been thinking about my favorite book of all time,

0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.280
<v Speaker 3>which is called The Light Between Oceans, and it is

0:17:44.359 --> 0:17:48.040
<v Speaker 3>all about parents who raise a child who are different

0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.520
<v Speaker 3>to the biological parents. And then it's this huge custody

0:17:51.600 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 3>battle and I read it ten years ago and to

0:17:54.520 --> 0:17:56.679
<v Speaker 3>this day, I don't know what the right answer was

0:17:56.680 --> 0:17:59.280
<v Speaker 3>about who should have kept custody of the child.

0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:02.639
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's it's such an ethical and moral gray area,

0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:04.440
<v Speaker 2>but there you go, a podcast and a book wreck

0:18:04.480 --> 0:18:04.679
<v Speaker 2>or yes.

0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:09.000
<v Speaker 3>Thank you so much and for explaining again, and thank

0:18:09.040 --> 0:18:12.359
<v Speaker 3>you to everyone who has listened to this podcast. We'll

0:18:12.359 --> 0:18:15.080
<v Speaker 3>be back again this afternoon with your evening headlines, but

0:18:15.160 --> 0:18:21.920
<v Speaker 3>until then, have a great day. My name is Lily

0:18:21.920 --> 0:18:25.119
<v Speaker 3>Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda bunge Lung Chalcuttin woman

0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.480
<v Speaker 3>from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast

0:18:29.640 --> 0:18:31.919
<v Speaker 3>is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and

0:18:31.960 --> 0:18:35.480
<v Speaker 3>pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations.

0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:38.720
<v Speaker 3>We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries,

0:18:38.840 --> 0:18:40.040
<v Speaker 3>both past and present.