1 00:00:00,520 --> 00:00:05,640 Speaker 1: Already and this is the Daily This is the Daily OS. Oh, 2 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:06,840 Speaker 1: now it makes sense. 3 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:17,520 Speaker 2: Good morning and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Wednesday, 4 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:21,520 Speaker 2: the sixteenth of April. I'm Emma Gillespie, I'm Billy Fitzimon's. 5 00:00:21,560 --> 00:00:24,079 Speaker 2: The story of an IVF mix up that led to 6 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,320 Speaker 2: a woman giving birth to a stranger's baby has made 7 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 2: global headlines this month. The shocking incident might sound like 8 00:00:31,760 --> 00:00:35,040 Speaker 2: something out of a movie, or certainly something from another country, 9 00:00:35,360 --> 00:00:39,199 Speaker 2: but it has unfolded right here in Australia. The Queensland 10 00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:43,319 Speaker 2: Fertility Clinic at its center monash IVF in Brisbane, has 11 00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:47,199 Speaker 2: launched an investigation, but ultimately has blamed the mix up 12 00:00:47,240 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 2: on human error. In today's deep dive, we are going 13 00:00:50,920 --> 00:00:54,320 Speaker 2: to explore the legal questions raised by this mistake and 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:57,640 Speaker 2: the ramifications it could have for the fertility industry. 15 00:01:01,160 --> 00:01:05,320 Speaker 3: Now, this story has captured international attention and it's easy 16 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,000 Speaker 3: to understand why I have never heard of anything like 17 00:01:08,040 --> 00:01:11,600 Speaker 3: this happening yet before. Before we explain the fallout and 18 00:01:11,640 --> 00:01:14,560 Speaker 3: what it means for the families and also the clinic involved, 19 00:01:14,720 --> 00:01:16,360 Speaker 3: do you want to just take us through and what 20 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:17,800 Speaker 3: exactly happened here? 21 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:18,319 Speaker 1: Yes? 22 00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:22,440 Speaker 2: So last week this shocking story broke where we learned 23 00:01:22,480 --> 00:01:26,240 Speaker 2: that a Brisbane fertility clinic is investigating after it found 24 00:01:26,280 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 2: out that a woman gave birth to a baby that 25 00:01:28,760 --> 00:01:33,440 Speaker 2: wasn't biologically hers. So that woman was a patient of 26 00:01:33,480 --> 00:01:38,080 Speaker 2: this clinic, Monash IVF, undergoing treatment there for in vitro fertilization, 27 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:43,200 Speaker 2: and during that process she was implanted with the wrong embryo, 28 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,400 Speaker 2: a fertilized egg that belonged to another couple also doing 29 00:01:47,400 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 2: IVF through Monash in Brisbane at that clinic. Now, in 30 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:55,600 Speaker 2: terms of IVF in Australia where things are at, we're 31 00:01:55,600 --> 00:01:59,480 Speaker 2: talking about the most commonly used form of assisted reproductive 32 00:01:59,520 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: technology in the country. To give you a sense of 33 00:02:02,160 --> 00:02:05,440 Speaker 2: how popular it is, there are around nineteen thousand babies 34 00:02:05,480 --> 00:02:09,679 Speaker 2: born through IVF in Australia every year, and as a country, 35 00:02:09,840 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 2: we really are considered one of the world leaders in 36 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 2: this space. We're considered to be one of the safest 37 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,480 Speaker 2: places in the world to have a baby through IVF. 38 00:02:18,760 --> 00:02:20,919 Speaker 3: I think that's part of what makes this so shocking, 39 00:02:21,040 --> 00:02:24,520 Speaker 3: is just how common IVF is in Australia. Yeah, and 40 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 3: I think the question that everyone has, I know I have, 41 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:30,600 Speaker 3: is how did this possibly happen. And at what point 42 00:02:30,720 --> 00:02:33,520 Speaker 3: did they realize that this woman had been implanted with 43 00:02:33,560 --> 00:02:34,440 Speaker 3: the wrong embryo. 44 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,359 Speaker 2: Yes, so it was this result of an incorrect transfer 45 00:02:38,639 --> 00:02:42,040 Speaker 2: of an embryo. Now, if you're going through IVF for 46 00:02:42,600 --> 00:02:46,400 Speaker 2: couples doing IVF, the process might involve egg dodonation and 47 00:02:46,440 --> 00:02:51,639 Speaker 2: sperm donation and then fertilizing an embryo externally outside of 48 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:56,320 Speaker 2: the body. Through IVF, that embryo gets transplanted into the 49 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:00,200 Speaker 2: womb and hopefully a person falls pregnant through that process. Yes, 50 00:03:00,720 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 2: the clinic said that in February it learned that one 51 00:03:04,520 --> 00:03:08,440 Speaker 2: of its patients had been implanted with the wrong embryo, 52 00:03:08,480 --> 00:03:11,800 Speaker 2: with an embryo that was not her own. And I 53 00:03:11,840 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: think everyone really wants this to be more controversial or 54 00:03:15,680 --> 00:03:18,399 Speaker 2: a more satisfying kind of reason for why or how 55 00:03:18,440 --> 00:03:21,720 Speaker 2: this happened, but they've put it down to human error. Basically, 56 00:03:21,760 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 2: that's all we know about why this happened. And in 57 00:03:25,639 --> 00:03:29,560 Speaker 2: terms of how they found out, the woman involved wanted 58 00:03:29,600 --> 00:03:33,920 Speaker 2: to transfer her remaining embryos to another IVF provider, so 59 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,680 Speaker 2: she had an embryo implanted. She had a pregnancy that 60 00:03:37,720 --> 00:03:39,680 Speaker 2: went to full term, she gave birth to a baby. 61 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:42,480 Speaker 2: And then this couple said to Monash IVF, hey, can 62 00:03:42,480 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 2: you please send out embryos somewhere else? 63 00:03:44,640 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: And when Monash. 64 00:03:45,520 --> 00:03:49,120 Speaker 2: IVF looked at those embryos, there were an unexpected number, 65 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:52,480 Speaker 2: so they found out that there were extra embryos in 66 00:03:52,600 --> 00:03:56,400 Speaker 2: storage of those birth parents. That then led to an 67 00:03:56,440 --> 00:03:59,760 Speaker 2: internal investigation that confirmed that an embryo from a different 68 00:03:59,760 --> 00:04:04,160 Speaker 2: cup had been incorrectly thawed and transferred to the birth parents, 69 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:07,320 Speaker 2: resulting in the birth of the child. Monash says that 70 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,360 Speaker 2: it is truly sorry and it's now conducting a full 71 00:04:10,600 --> 00:04:12,160 Speaker 2: review of its processes. 72 00:04:12,520 --> 00:04:15,440 Speaker 3: My goodness, you can't even imagine how it must have felt. 73 00:04:15,680 --> 00:04:18,719 Speaker 3: A when they discovered that that mistake had been made. Yeah, 74 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:21,520 Speaker 3: but then B when the family was told that the 75 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:23,600 Speaker 3: wrong embryo had been implanted in. 76 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: Them, Oh, devastating. 77 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:30,320 Speaker 2: And after having gone through a full pregnancy and birth process. 78 00:04:30,839 --> 00:04:31,760 Speaker 1: Couples who use. 79 00:04:31,640 --> 00:04:35,600 Speaker 2: IVF, you know, typically it's not easy for them to conceive, 80 00:04:35,680 --> 00:04:37,719 Speaker 2: so to jump through so many hurdles and get to 81 00:04:37,760 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 2: that point, I'm sure was completely earth shattering. 82 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 3: And just to be clear, so we know that they 83 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:46,040 Speaker 3: discovered this in February, and at that point the woman 84 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:49,720 Speaker 3: had already given birth and they were raising this baby. 85 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:52,640 Speaker 2: Yes, So we don't have any information on the age 86 00:04:52,720 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: of the baby or the names of the couples and 87 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,039 Speaker 2: families involved. 88 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,160 Speaker 1: Those details have been kept private. 89 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,000 Speaker 2: We really don't know how old this child is, but 90 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:06,440 Speaker 2: the clinic have referred to this embryo and a baby, 91 00:05:06,520 --> 00:05:10,000 Speaker 2: so you know, we can assume that it's probably happened 92 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:11,000 Speaker 2: within the last year. 93 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 3: And do we know what happens now, not just what 94 00:05:14,720 --> 00:05:17,839 Speaker 3: action was taken once they found out that this mistake 95 00:05:17,920 --> 00:05:21,839 Speaker 3: had been made, but also what happens now to the baby. 96 00:05:22,120 --> 00:05:26,159 Speaker 2: Yes, So the clinic has been really transparent over the 97 00:05:26,200 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 2: last week in terms of what it's doing, what it's done, 98 00:05:28,920 --> 00:05:32,240 Speaker 2: and what it plans to do going forward. Its executive 99 00:05:32,279 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: team was alerted within hours of that discovery in February, 100 00:05:36,520 --> 00:05:39,560 Speaker 2: and then the regulator, which is the Fertility Society of 101 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 2: Australia and New Zealand, was also notified that same week. 102 00:05:42,960 --> 00:05:46,000 Speaker 2: So this has all been bubbling under the surface since February, 103 00:05:46,040 --> 00:05:48,400 Speaker 2: but we the public have obviously only learned about it 104 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 2: in the last week. In a statement, Monashe IVF said 105 00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:56,680 Speaker 2: an independent investigation is now underway alongside full process reviews 106 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 2: of its laboratory safety measures. Medical Groups CEO Michael Knapp 107 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:06,560 Speaker 2: said the clinic has apologized to everyone involved and said 108 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,880 Speaker 2: ongoing support will be provided to the parents. He added 109 00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,799 Speaker 2: that while the clinic is quote devastated, it is confident 110 00:06:12,839 --> 00:06:17,040 Speaker 2: that this was an isolated incident, but the whole debarcle 111 00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:21,280 Speaker 2: has really raised questions about what happens next for these families, 112 00:06:21,760 --> 00:06:24,400 Speaker 2: what it's going to mean from a legal perspective, who 113 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:29,200 Speaker 2: gets custody, have any laws been broken, Will Monash be 114 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 2: sued or even face criminal action, etc. 115 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,240 Speaker 3: Usually when we look at what the legalities around a 116 00:06:36,279 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 3: case are, we will look at the precedents or to 117 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:40,680 Speaker 3: see if anything like this has happened before. 118 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:42,920 Speaker 1: Has anything like this has happened before? 119 00:06:43,160 --> 00:06:46,200 Speaker 2: So adding to the uncertainty, I suppose, is the fact 120 00:06:46,240 --> 00:06:49,039 Speaker 2: that this incident is thought to be the first of 121 00:06:49,080 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 2: its kind in Australia. So there are no known examples 122 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:56,240 Speaker 2: that have happened within Australia, but there are a few 123 00:06:56,440 --> 00:06:59,400 Speaker 2: international examples that could provide a bit of a roadmap 124 00:06:59,680 --> 00:07:03,080 Speaker 2: for the way forward. Mind you, they all come out 125 00:07:03,120 --> 00:07:06,840 Speaker 2: of the US, these recent examples. So in twenty twenty one, 126 00:07:06,880 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 2: a similar mix up occurred in the state of California. 127 00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,680 Speaker 2: Two couples went through a clinic there and they ended 128 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,680 Speaker 2: up raising babies that weren't biologically theirs for three months 129 00:07:16,800 --> 00:07:19,800 Speaker 2: before the error was detected. They did end up swapping 130 00:07:19,880 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 2: custody of the children, but both families sued that clinic, 131 00:07:24,320 --> 00:07:27,880 Speaker 2: and one family went public speaking about the psychological harm 132 00:07:27,960 --> 00:07:31,000 Speaker 2: that came from the incident. They said it was incredibly 133 00:07:31,040 --> 00:07:34,800 Speaker 2: traumatizing to go through. Also in California, a couple of 134 00:07:34,880 --> 00:07:38,240 Speaker 2: years earlier, in a separate clinic, there was a mix up. 135 00:07:38,280 --> 00:07:41,280 Speaker 2: That clinic was sued by a couple overclaims their embryo 136 00:07:41,480 --> 00:07:45,200 Speaker 2: was mistakenly implanted in a different woman who gave birth 137 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 2: to their son in twenty nineteen. And then more recently, 138 00:07:48,720 --> 00:07:51,600 Speaker 2: a woman in Georgia in the US sued a clinic 139 00:07:52,040 --> 00:07:55,080 Speaker 2: she had gone through IVF. She is a white woman, 140 00:07:55,160 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: her sperm donor was also white, but she gave birth 141 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,680 Speaker 2: to a baby of African American appearance, and that's how 142 00:08:00,760 --> 00:08:03,640 Speaker 2: that particular mix up ended up coming to light. But 143 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 2: they all have very similar kind of origins and do 144 00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:11,040 Speaker 2: relate to what's gone on here in Queensland. But while 145 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:14,280 Speaker 2: there are those concerning examples out of the US, this 146 00:08:14,520 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 2: is so rare and even rarer in Australia, to the 147 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:21,600 Speaker 2: point of you know, Monash IVF in their response pointing 148 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:24,440 Speaker 2: out that this is quote an isolated incident, which you know, 149 00:08:24,520 --> 00:08:27,520 Speaker 2: I'm sure everyone hopes that that is absolutely true. 150 00:08:27,720 --> 00:08:30,800 Speaker 3: What has the response been like within the assisted fertility 151 00:08:30,880 --> 00:08:32,240 Speaker 3: industry to this story? 152 00:08:32,480 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 2: So we have heard from that regulator that I mentioned earlier, 153 00:08:35,320 --> 00:08:38,679 Speaker 2: the Fertility Society of Australia and New Zealand FSA and 154 00:08:38,800 --> 00:08:41,280 Speaker 2: Z i'll call them. It's a body that sets out 155 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:46,479 Speaker 2: the standards and regulations for assisted reproductive technology in Australia. 156 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,960 Speaker 2: It's released a statement that said, quote the trust patient's 157 00:08:50,040 --> 00:08:53,160 Speaker 2: place in our profession is sacred and we must continually 158 00:08:53,160 --> 00:08:56,840 Speaker 2: earn it through clear governance, shared responsibility and action. We 159 00:08:56,960 --> 00:08:59,760 Speaker 2: ask that the privacy of the families involved is respected 160 00:09:00,040 --> 00:09:02,440 Speaker 2: during this time as they work through what is undoubtedly 161 00:09:02,520 --> 00:09:07,719 Speaker 2: a complex and personal situation. But this has reignited conversation 162 00:09:07,880 --> 00:09:12,080 Speaker 2: about how IVF is regulated in Australia and safeguards and 163 00:09:12,280 --> 00:09:15,800 Speaker 2: what those are and how they protect patients and babies. 164 00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: FSA and Z has actually been calling for a national roadmap. 165 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:24,719 Speaker 2: This is well before this mix up unfolded. They are 166 00:09:24,720 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: calling for this decade long roadmap to future proof the 167 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:32,719 Speaker 2: assisted fertility sector and to boost support for all families, 168 00:09:32,720 --> 00:09:36,160 Speaker 2: including non traditional families. And in September last year, it 169 00:09:36,160 --> 00:09:39,320 Speaker 2: actually handed down a review of the fertility sector. It 170 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,680 Speaker 2: called for urgent reforms to address a raft of issues, 171 00:09:42,679 --> 00:09:46,920 Speaker 2: including the falling birth rate and access and cost. But 172 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:50,720 Speaker 2: in terms of its relevancy for this story this week, 173 00:09:51,040 --> 00:09:55,040 Speaker 2: this tenire National Fertility Roadmap includes calls for national fertility 174 00:09:55,160 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: legislation to streamline regulations that differ between states and terror. Now, 175 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 2: I didn't realize that those regulations differed between the states 176 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 2: and territories, but f SA and Z called current inconsistencies 177 00:10:08,240 --> 00:10:14,079 Speaker 2: a primary concern that significantly impact children, parents, donors, and 178 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,960 Speaker 2: assisted reproductive technology in general. So this report called on 179 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:22,920 Speaker 2: health ministers to support the roadmap and ensure consistent legislation 180 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,280 Speaker 2: across the nation to lead to improved and more equitable 181 00:10:26,320 --> 00:10:28,479 Speaker 2: outcomes for Australian families. 182 00:10:28,840 --> 00:10:31,480 Speaker 3: You saying that has caused a light bulb moment in 183 00:10:31,520 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 3: my head, and I'm pretty sure we actually did cover 184 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:36,360 Speaker 3: it last September. We did when it came out, So 185 00:10:36,440 --> 00:10:38,880 Speaker 3: we will put a link to that in the show notes. 186 00:10:39,160 --> 00:10:43,160 Speaker 3: But m how would more regulation in the industry have 187 00:10:43,559 --> 00:10:47,840 Speaker 3: potentially reduced the risk of what happened in Queensland happening. 188 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a really good question and I think there 189 00:10:50,640 --> 00:10:55,079 Speaker 2: is no clear cut answer given how I suppose, well, 190 00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,400 Speaker 2: the industry is perceived on a global scale to function 191 00:10:58,480 --> 00:10:59,839 Speaker 2: and operate here in Australia. 192 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:02,080 Speaker 1: But from these proposed. 193 00:11:01,640 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: Regulations, I think it's about centralizing standards and practices so 194 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:11,160 Speaker 2: that every state and territory is working consistently to the 195 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 2: same level and adhering to the same kind of regulations. So, 196 00:11:15,040 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 2: for example, this report suggested establishing a national register and 197 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: a genetic bank to centralized genetic information of donors and 198 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:27,840 Speaker 2: donor conceived children. It recommended national health standards for egg 199 00:11:27,880 --> 00:11:31,880 Speaker 2: and sperm donation to ensure consistency and quote safe futures 200 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:36,160 Speaker 2: for children conceived by IVF and the regulator argues that 201 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: these approaches, among other suggestions, would ensure consistent reproductive and 202 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,520 Speaker 2: privacy standards around the country now. At the time last 203 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:47,200 Speaker 2: September when this report was handed down, the government said 204 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:50,680 Speaker 2: that it would carefully consider the proposed framework. That we 205 00:11:50,760 --> 00:11:54,040 Speaker 2: haven't heard much since, and Shadow Health Minister Ann Rustin 206 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:57,240 Speaker 2: at the time acknowledged that more work was needed to 207 00:11:57,360 --> 00:11:58,360 Speaker 2: improve policies. 208 00:11:59,040 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 3: And so, do we know what will happen to the 209 00:12:02,040 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 3: custody of this child and is there anything within existing 210 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:09,439 Speaker 3: Australian legislation that kind of sets out a roadmap when 211 00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:11,600 Speaker 3: this kind of thing happens, Although you did say that 212 00:12:11,640 --> 00:12:12,800 Speaker 3: this has never happened before. 213 00:12:12,880 --> 00:12:15,920 Speaker 2: Well, this is where an already complex story probably gets 214 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:21,320 Speaker 2: even trickier because in Australia, biology and genetics don't actually 215 00:12:21,400 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 2: determine who has the right to parent a child. And 216 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:28,000 Speaker 2: what that means in this instance is that we could 217 00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,720 Speaker 2: be in for a really complicated custody battle. The child's 218 00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:35,440 Speaker 2: biological parents have rights, but so does the birth mother, 219 00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:40,400 Speaker 2: and this split between birth parents versus biological parents becomes 220 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,360 Speaker 2: quite crucial. And under Australian law, whoever gives birth to 221 00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:47,840 Speaker 2: the child is the legal mother. So there are obviously 222 00:12:48,280 --> 00:12:52,199 Speaker 2: so many moral and ethical questions as well as the 223 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:53,280 Speaker 2: legal ones. 224 00:12:53,240 --> 00:12:54,920 Speaker 1: Raised by this issue. 225 00:12:54,960 --> 00:12:58,160 Speaker 2: And because we have very little information about the families 226 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:02,080 Speaker 2: at the center of this case, it's really unclear as 227 00:13:02,080 --> 00:13:04,920 Speaker 2: to what the path forward in terms of custody could 228 00:13:04,920 --> 00:13:07,200 Speaker 2: look like if we look to the US example, there 229 00:13:07,240 --> 00:13:11,720 Speaker 2: was that bungle where a family agreed amicably to swap children. 230 00:13:12,080 --> 00:13:16,280 Speaker 2: We're talking about one baby here, two sets of families involved. 231 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:19,040 Speaker 2: It's I'm sure going to be incredibly complex. 232 00:13:19,520 --> 00:13:23,000 Speaker 3: And you mentioned that IVF regulations differ state by state. 233 00:13:23,679 --> 00:13:26,319 Speaker 3: What's the state of play in Queensland. Is there anything 234 00:13:26,360 --> 00:13:29,080 Speaker 3: that we know about the state that could impact the 235 00:13:29,120 --> 00:13:30,360 Speaker 3: next steps of this case. 236 00:13:30,880 --> 00:13:35,040 Speaker 2: So Queensland has actually faced its share of IVF controversies 237 00:13:35,240 --> 00:13:39,160 Speaker 2: over recent years. It has led to some reform, but 238 00:13:39,559 --> 00:13:41,959 Speaker 2: I suppose there has been a little bit of bad 239 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:45,640 Speaker 2: pr back to back for the industry in Queensland. Specifically. 240 00:13:46,280 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 2: You might remember mid last year we covered a story 241 00:13:49,840 --> 00:13:54,840 Speaker 2: about thousands of frozen sperm donations being destroyed in Queensland. 242 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:56,000 Speaker 3: I do remember that. 243 00:13:56,280 --> 00:13:59,280 Speaker 2: I thought you might very sharp. She's got a good Philly. 244 00:14:00,000 --> 00:14:03,599 Speaker 2: So the Health ovidsman in Queensland actually launched an investigation 245 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,959 Speaker 2: into fertility service providers in the state after there were 246 00:14:07,200 --> 00:14:11,720 Speaker 2: several complaints from patients of alleged misconduct across the board. 247 00:14:11,720 --> 00:14:14,360 Speaker 2: Now this wasn't about one provider specifically, it was a 248 00:14:14,400 --> 00:14:17,880 Speaker 2: series of complaints and a trend that reflected concerns within 249 00:14:17,920 --> 00:14:22,560 Speaker 2: the industry. So that investigation examined data from sperm donations 250 00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: over the past decade. 251 00:14:24,320 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: It looked into twenty four. 252 00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:30,120 Speaker 2: Clinics who were licensed to provide IVF and the regulator 253 00:14:30,160 --> 00:14:35,480 Speaker 2: identified severe gaps and risks in the industry. Evidence from 254 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:40,040 Speaker 2: hundreds of complaints included the misplacement of sperm and eggs, 255 00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:44,160 Speaker 2: the use of incorrect embryos, and mix ups in sperm samples. 256 00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,640 Speaker 2: It also identified screening issues for donors and challenges and 257 00:14:48,680 --> 00:14:53,440 Speaker 2: shortcomings in record keeping. For example, quote failure to maintain 258 00:14:53,560 --> 00:14:57,680 Speaker 2: accurate contact details for donors, an inadequate disclosure of medical 259 00:14:57,720 --> 00:15:00,760 Speaker 2: information to donor conceived children and recipients. 260 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:03,520 Speaker 3: Wow, how did the Queensland government respond? 261 00:15:03,600 --> 00:15:07,240 Speaker 2: It was quite a damning report and following the Queensland 262 00:15:07,280 --> 00:15:10,320 Speaker 2: Government actually passed the state's first law on. 263 00:15:10,320 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: Assisted reproductive technology. 264 00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,920 Speaker 2: So under those laws, Queensland Health now has the power 265 00:15:16,040 --> 00:15:20,200 Speaker 2: to inspect IVF providers. The government has also launched a 266 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:24,480 Speaker 2: Donor Conception Information Register to hold details about procedures in 267 00:15:24,520 --> 00:15:28,240 Speaker 2: the state and when live births occur that are linked 268 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 2: to IVF. So there has been a bit of an overhaul. 269 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 2: But to your earlier question, you know whether or not 270 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: that would have prevented this mishandling or all this mix up. 271 00:15:37,440 --> 00:15:40,000 Speaker 3: You know who could say, and back to this case. 272 00:15:40,080 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 3: Just lastly, what has been the fallout for Monash IVF. 273 00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 2: Yes, so, monasch IVF is a really huge provider in 274 00:15:48,520 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 2: the IVF space. They run clinics right around the country, 275 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,640 Speaker 2: so we're talking about their Brisbane clinic, but this is 276 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:58,720 Speaker 2: a national organization. You may have actually heard of them 277 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: before because there was a major class action settled last 278 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:06,920 Speaker 2: year involving Monash IVF. The provider was accused by more 279 00:16:06,920 --> 00:16:11,080 Speaker 2: than seven hundred complainants of using inaccurate genetic testing and 280 00:16:11,280 --> 00:16:16,160 Speaker 2: destroying potentially viable embryos. So at that time last year, 281 00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:19,520 Speaker 2: Monash agreed to a fifty six million dollar settlement. The 282 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:24,080 Speaker 2: fallout from that was quite public and there were a 283 00:16:24,120 --> 00:16:26,440 Speaker 2: lot of on the record conversations in the media at 284 00:16:26,440 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 2: the time from those seven hundred people who brought the 285 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:33,600 Speaker 2: action condemning Monash's practices. In terms of the legal action 286 00:16:33,680 --> 00:16:35,760 Speaker 2: it could face in the future, we still don't know. 287 00:16:35,960 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: But this is a publicly listed company and their share 288 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,920 Speaker 2: price has fallen dramatically in the days since this news 289 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:47,400 Speaker 2: came to light so huge ramifications for a very large 290 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:50,920 Speaker 2: corporation there. We have heard from Queensland Health Minister Tim 291 00:16:51,000 --> 00:16:54,240 Speaker 2: Nichols who says the government is watching Monash's handling of 292 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,440 Speaker 2: this current controversy closely and based on that it will 293 00:16:57,440 --> 00:16:59,840 Speaker 2: assess how to proceed and if it's going to use 294 00:16:59,840 --> 00:17:03,960 Speaker 2: those new powers to monitor the clinics specifically. He said, 295 00:17:04,080 --> 00:17:06,919 Speaker 2: we stand ready to provide whatever support we can to 296 00:17:06,960 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 2: the families to resolve this terrible, terrible situation. As the 297 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:13,200 Speaker 2: regulator in the future, we will be ensuring that these 298 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,439 Speaker 2: organizations do everything they can to make sure this terrible 299 00:17:16,480 --> 00:17:19,679 Speaker 2: type of event does not occur in the future. In 300 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:22,400 Speaker 2: a statement on Friday, Queensland Health said it would work 301 00:17:22,480 --> 00:17:27,320 Speaker 2: with Monash IVF to reinforce safeguards and identify possible risks. 302 00:17:27,920 --> 00:17:31,240 Speaker 3: Wow, it's something that we will absolutely be keeping our 303 00:17:31,280 --> 00:17:33,880 Speaker 3: eye on as any more information comes out. 304 00:17:34,160 --> 00:17:36,320 Speaker 1: Thanks for explaining it, em Thanks for having me. 305 00:17:36,400 --> 00:17:38,879 Speaker 3: I have to say before we leave this entire podcast, 306 00:17:38,960 --> 00:17:41,120 Speaker 3: I've been thinking about my favorite book of all time, 307 00:17:41,200 --> 00:17:44,280 Speaker 3: which is called The Light Between Oceans, and it is 308 00:17:44,359 --> 00:17:48,040 Speaker 3: all about parents who raise a child who are different 309 00:17:48,080 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 3: to the biological parents. And then it's this huge custody 310 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,520 Speaker 3: battle and I read it ten years ago and to 311 00:17:54,520 --> 00:17:56,679 Speaker 3: this day, I don't know what the right answer was 312 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,280 Speaker 3: about who should have kept custody of the child. 313 00:17:59,520 --> 00:18:02,639 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's such an ethical and moral gray area, 314 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:04,440 Speaker 2: but there you go, a podcast and a book wreck 315 00:18:04,480 --> 00:18:04,679 Speaker 2: or yes. 316 00:18:06,000 --> 00:18:09,000 Speaker 3: Thank you so much and for explaining again, and thank 317 00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,359 Speaker 3: you to everyone who has listened to this podcast. We'll 318 00:18:12,359 --> 00:18:15,080 Speaker 3: be back again this afternoon with your evening headlines, but 319 00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:21,920 Speaker 3: until then, have a great day. My name is Lily 320 00:18:21,920 --> 00:18:25,119 Speaker 3: Maddon and I'm a proud Arunda bunge Lung Chalcuttin woman 321 00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:29,480 Speaker 3: from Gadighl country. The Daily oz acknowledges that this podcast 322 00:18:29,640 --> 00:18:31,919 Speaker 3: is recorded on the lands of the Gadighl people and 323 00:18:31,960 --> 00:18:35,480 Speaker 3: pays respect to all Aboriginal and Torres Strait Island and nations. 324 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:38,720 Speaker 3: We pay our respects to the first peoples of these countries, 325 00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 3: both past and present.