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Speaker 1: Already and this is this is the daily This is

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Speaker 1: the Daily. Ohs oh, now it makes sense. Good morning,

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Speaker 1: and welcome to the Daily OS. It's Tuesday, the twenty

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Speaker 1: sixth of August. I'm Emma Gillespie.

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Speaker 2: I'm Lucy Tassel.

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Speaker 1: Over the weekend, both Eric and Lyle Menendez were denied

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Speaker 1: parole by a California review board. The brothers have spent

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Speaker 1: more than three decades in prison for murdering their parents

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Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty nine, but renewed interest in the case

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Speaker 1: has come to a head since the release of a

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Speaker 1: Netflix series that you might have heard of. The brothers

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Speaker 1: were re sentenced in May, marking what many saw as

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Speaker 1: their best chance at freedom in over thirty years, but

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Speaker 1: the parole hearings revealed previously unknown details about their conduct

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Speaker 1: behind bars, ultimately leading officials to reject their freedom bid. Today,

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Speaker 1: we're going to unpack came out in these hearings, the

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Speaker 1: violations that swayed the board's decision, and what avenues remain

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Speaker 1: for the brother's potential release. We'll get into that right

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Speaker 1: after a quick message from our.

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Speaker 2: Sponsor, Emma. This case has captivated the public for decades,

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Speaker 2: but it's had a real resurgence in the last year,

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Speaker 2: partly due to that Netflix series that you mentioned For

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Speaker 2: listeners who might need a refresh, Can you give us

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Speaker 2: kind of a rundown. Who are the Menandez brothers and

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Speaker 2: why are they in prison?

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Speaker 1: Yes? So, Lyle and Eric Menndez, when they were twenty

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Speaker 1: one years old and eighteen years old, were found guilty

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Speaker 1: of murdering their parents, Jose and Kitty Menendez. Now they

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Speaker 1: died brutally in the family room of their Beverly Hills mansion.

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Speaker 1: This was in August nineteen eighty nine, and initially the

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Speaker 1: brothers told police that they had come home to find

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Speaker 1: their parents dead, but after months of investigations, the brothers

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Speaker 1: eventually confessed and that led to their arrest in March

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Speaker 1: nineteen ninety. What was also of particular interest to police

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Speaker 1: at the time was how the brothers behaved in the

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Speaker 1: immediate aftermath of their parents' deaths. So, their parents had

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Speaker 1: been brutally murdered, and Eric and Lyle essentially went on

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Speaker 1: a spending spree. They were living extremely lavishly, and that's

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Speaker 1: sort of what brought prosecutors into the investigation that ultimately

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Speaker 1: exposed that Lyle and Eric had killed their parents.

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Speaker 2: After that, they go to trial. In fact, there are

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Speaker 2: kind of two trials which I think really brought them

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Speaker 2: to the world attention. What do we need to know

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Speaker 2: about their trials?

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Speaker 1: So, as you mentioned, Lucy, there were two trials, the

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Speaker 1: first in nineteen ninety three. Now this was televised and

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Speaker 1: became a media sensation, so as you mentioned, that's when

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Speaker 1: global attention really started to pick up for this case.

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Speaker 1: Each brother had his own jury and both testified that

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Speaker 1: they'd killed their parents in self defense after years of

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Speaker 1: sexual abuse by their father. So the lawyers in both

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Speaker 1: those trials really sought to have the murder charges dropped

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Speaker 1: on the grounds of self defense following that abuse. Both juries, though,

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Speaker 1: could not come to a unanimous decision. They were deadlocked

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Speaker 1: and that resulted in mistrials. So the second trial happened

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Speaker 1: in nineteen ninety five. That wrapped up in nineteen ninety six,

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Speaker 1: and the judge in that trial limited testimony over the

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Speaker 1: alleged abuse, so the self defense argument was essentially ruled

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Speaker 1: out in that case, and both brothers were ultimately convicted

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Speaker 1: of first degree murder and sentenced to life in prison

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Speaker 1: without the possibility of parole. In nineteen ninety six and

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Speaker 1: they've been behind bars serving that sentence ever since.

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Speaker 2: So nineteen ninety six jumped to twenty twenty four when

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Speaker 2: there's that Netflix series that we've talked about, how did

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Speaker 2: that change things in this case?

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Speaker 1: So there has been this massive surge of renewed interest

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Speaker 1: thanks to that show Monsters the Lyle and Eric Menendez

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Speaker 1: Story that premiered in September twenty twenty four, so nearly

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Speaker 1: a year ago. That series was created by Ryan Murphy.

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Speaker 1: It was a dramatization, so we're not talking about a

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Speaker 1: documentary series. This was a narrative dramatization kind of guessing

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Speaker 1: at what happened. But it's not a definitive recount of

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Speaker 1: what happened. But it debuts number one on Netflix around

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Speaker 1: the world. It led to this huge social media movement.

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Speaker 1: We saw young people and even celebrities like Kim Kardashian

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Speaker 1: advocating for the brother's release, trying to kind of call

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Speaker 1: for a new trial or for them to be pardoned

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Speaker 1: or exonerated. And it also led to new evidence emerging.

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Speaker 1: So a musician who'd actually worked with Jose Menendez, the

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Speaker 1: brother's father, he alleged that Jose sexually abused him in

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Speaker 1: the nineteen eighties, which gave kind of new credibility to

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Speaker 1: the abuse allegations. And the brother's lawyers uncovered a letter

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Speaker 1: that Eric had written to a cousin months before the

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Speaker 1: murders describing the abuse. So this all plays into the

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Speaker 1: credibility of the self defense argument. Ultimately, that led to

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Speaker 1: the brothers getting resentenced just a few months ago.

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Speaker 2: So what is that? What changes for them then? For

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Speaker 2: Lyle and Eric if they're re sentenced.

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Speaker 1: So the resentencing changed their eligibility for parole. So you

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Speaker 1: might remember in nineteen ninety six they were sentenced to

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Speaker 1: life without parole, meaning they would never be eligible for release.

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Speaker 1: But in May this year, they were re sentenced to

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Speaker 1: fifty years to life. Now, normally this means that an

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Speaker 1: offender would have to serve fifty years in prison before

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Speaker 1: being eligible for parole, but under California's youth offender laws,

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Speaker 1: Eric and Lyle became immediately eligible for parole because they

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Speaker 1: were under twenty six when they committed the murders and

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Speaker 1: they'd already served more than the minimum required time under

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Speaker 1: this kind of legal youth offender law. And that brings

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Speaker 1: us to last week's parole hearings.

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Speaker 2: So then we have these parole hearings late last week

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Speaker 2: over the weekend. Both of them are denied, and for me,

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Speaker 2: I found that to be really interesting because if you

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Speaker 2: take them at their word that they were abused by

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Speaker 2: their parents, that's what they allege, then I guess my

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Speaker 2: thinking is like, at the risk of being crude, their

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Speaker 2: parents are dead, the people like, they can't kill their

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Speaker 2: parents again. So then I was interested to hear what

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Speaker 2: the parole Board's reasoning was for why they would be

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Speaker 2: asked to remain behind bars.

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Speaker 1: Because ultimately it's up to the parole board to determine

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Speaker 1: if these men are a threat to society, and if

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Speaker 1: they're no longer a danger to society, then the argument

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Speaker 1: is that they should be released. So it was a

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Speaker 1: complex process. Eric's parole hearing actually lasted nearly ten hours.

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Speaker 1: Normally these hearings go for about two or three hours,

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Speaker 1: so there was a lot to get through and the

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Speaker 1: commissioners spent a long time considering the options. So there

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Speaker 1: was a panel of commissioners for Eric's hearing that included

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Speaker 1: a man named Robert Barton, who focused heavily on Eric's

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Speaker 1: past prison violations. This is new information for the rest

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Speaker 1: of us. But one of the more shocking details that

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Speaker 1: came out from this hearing was the extent of Eric's

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Speaker 1: rule breaking behind bars over the past three decades. So

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Speaker 1: the board detailed inappropriate behavior with visitors, drug smuggling, misuse

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Speaker 1: of state computers, devices within prison, violent incidents, illegal mobile

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Speaker 1: phone use. It was a pretty long list.

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Speaker 2: Yeah wow, okay, So then what do we know about

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Speaker 2: some of these violations.

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Speaker 1: So Eric specifically was involved, we've learned with a prison

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Speaker 1: gang called the Two Fivers. Now this was around twenty thirteen,

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Speaker 1: and it was revealed that he helped that gang with

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Speaker 1: a tax fraud scheme. He also had multiple phone violations,

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Speaker 1: the most recent being in twenty twenty one, So he

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Speaker 1: was repeatedly caught with illegal devices contacting his family and

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Speaker 1: friends and wife in the outside world. And there were

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Speaker 1: also multiple drug violations, so that ranges from marijuana to

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Speaker 1: heroin violations. But Eric was also found with supplies in

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Speaker 1: his prison cell to make prison is what it's kind

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Speaker 1: of the vernacular term. He was caught inviting someone into

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Speaker 1: his cell to smoke marijuana as recently as twenty eighteen,

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Speaker 1: and there were multiple physical altercations over the kind of

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Speaker 1: first two decades of his sentencing, and inappropriate conduct with

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Speaker 1: visitors that included an intimate visit with his wife. Eric

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Speaker 1: was found in a prison chapel engaging in sexual activity

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Speaker 1: with his wife in front of his nine year old stepdaughter.

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Speaker 2: Right, okay, yeah, So then what does he say about

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Speaker 2: all these incidents.

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Speaker 1: So Eric acknowledged all of these incidents. He accepts that

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Speaker 1: they happened. But in the case of the prison gang affiliation,

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Speaker 1: because that was a significant concern to the parole board,

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Speaker 1: Eric said he only worked with this gang out of

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Speaker 1: tremendous fear for his life. Those were the words that

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Speaker 1: he used. He said that he saw it as a

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Speaker 1: means to survive what he described as an extremely violent

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Speaker 1: prison yard. He'd said that he'd seen this gang murder

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Speaker 1: personal friends of his inside the prison, so he worked

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Speaker 1: with them basically to look after his own safety. He

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Speaker 1: acknowledged the broader misconduct, some of those drug allegations that

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Speaker 1: I detailed, but said that he came to a turning

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Speaker 1: point in the year twenty thirteen. He found his faith,

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Speaker 1: his lawyer explained, he became sober, he started engaging in

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Speaker 1: rehabilitation programs. So his whole parole argument hinged on that

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Speaker 1: from twenty thirteen he turned a corner and started to

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Speaker 1: engage in rehab, and the commissioner ultimately was not convinced

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Speaker 1: by that. Commissioner Barton said that contrary to the beliefs

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Speaker 1: of the Menendez brothers, families and friends and supporters, Eric

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Speaker 1: quote had not been a model prisoner, and frankly, we

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Speaker 1: find that a little disturbing. Button added, the gravity of

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Speaker 1: your crime is not a primary reason for this denial.

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Speaker 1: It's still your behavior in prison, which I guess Lucy

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Speaker 1: speaks to the concerns around you know, are they a

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Speaker 1: threat to society if the people they murdered were abusive,

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Speaker 1: or you know, what is the remaining threat to the

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Speaker 1: community that there is still a concern there.

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Speaker 2: So then what do we know about Lyle's hearing? So?

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Speaker 1: Lyle's hearing was the next day in California, on Saturday,

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Speaker 1: so overnight on Saturday for us here in Australia. One

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Speaker 1: of the commissioners there, Julie Garland, commended Lyle for his

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Speaker 1: lack of violence over his sentence, for positive relationships that

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Speaker 1: he had formed with inmates. There were behavioral violations, although

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Speaker 1: they were fewer than Eric, so Lyle had some violations

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Speaker 1: over five of the thirty years that he's been behind bars,

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Speaker 1: including mobile phone possession as recently as last year, But

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Speaker 1: Garland still denied Lyle parole, saying despite his outward positives,

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Speaker 1: the panel still found that he demonstrated quote antisocial personality

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Speaker 1: traits like deception, minimization, and rule breaking. And some of

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Speaker 1: this has to do with Lyle's acceptance or perceived lack

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Speaker 1: of accept over his role in the murder of his parents,

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Speaker 1: the brutality of that crime, and his kind of wrongdoings.

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Speaker 2: Right, Okay, were there any kind of good points about

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Speaker 2: their time in prison that we learned about from these

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Speaker 2: parole hearings. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think what's been interesting since we got this Netflix

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Speaker 1: series is that the Menendez brothers lawyers have really sought

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Speaker 1: to do a bit of reputation rehab for lack of

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Speaker 1: a better term. They've been trying to advocate or platform

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Speaker 1: the good work that the brothers have done from behind bars.

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Speaker 1: And you know, it has to be said, they have

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Speaker 1: done genuinely good work, which was acknowledged by the parole

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Speaker 1: board in both hearings. So, Eric, for example, pioneered hospice

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Speaker 1: program that's become a statewide model in prisons. He's worked

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Speaker 1: with elderly and terminally ill patients and helped them in

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Speaker 1: that chapter of their lives in prison. Lyle founded a

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Speaker 1: project called the Green Space Project, which has essentially transformed

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Speaker 1: the prison yard that he's into a bit of a

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Speaker 1: Parkla like setting. There's murals and artworks, outdoor classrooms, outdoor programs.

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Speaker 1: So they have done a lot of work to improve

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Speaker 1: the lives of inmates in their immediate communities. But the

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Speaker 1: commissioners essentially said, you know, if you can't follow the

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Speaker 1: rules of a prison, how can we trust you to

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Speaker 1: follow the rules of society in the outside world. As

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Speaker 1: Commissioner Barton put it, these brothers might have had a

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Speaker 1: positive impact on their community, they might have won the

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Speaker 1: forgiveness of their family, but quote can still be found

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Speaker 1: unsuitable for parole.

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Speaker 2: Okay, what have we heard from legal authorities, like from

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Speaker 2: the state of California.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So interestingly, throughout the course of this resentencing and

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Speaker 1: this ground swell of a bit of a movement for

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Speaker 1: the Menendez brothers release, California or LA specifically, has had

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Speaker 1: a new district attorney appointed. So a man called George

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Speaker 1: Gaskin was the DA last year and he was a

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Speaker 1: supporter of the Menendez brothers being released. He pushed for

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Speaker 1: them to be resentenced so they could be eligible for parole.

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Speaker 1: But in December, LA got a new district attorney. Okay,

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Speaker 1: his name is Nathan Hodgman, and he is a fierce

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Speaker 1: opponent of Lyle and Eric being released. After the hearings

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Speaker 1: and the denials of parole, Hotchman said over the weekend

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Speaker 1: that the parole board quote correctly determined that the brother's

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Speaker 1: actions speak louder than words. He has consistently argued that

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Speaker 1: the brothers have quote never fully accepted responsibility and continue

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Speaker 1: to promote what he calls a false narrative of self defense.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so some strong words there from state authorities. Now

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Speaker 2: that both of them have been denied, what's the next

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Speaker 2: steps for Lyle and Eric?

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Speaker 1: So there are a few avenues remaining. First, both brothers

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Speaker 1: can request an administrative review within a year, so they

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Speaker 1: could potentially get another parole hearing in as little as

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Speaker 1: eighteen months.

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Speaker 2: Okay.

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Speaker 1: The Parole Board had ordered at the end of these

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Speaker 1: hearings that they'd have to wait three years before they

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Speaker 1: would next get a shot at parole. But there's also

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Speaker 1: an avenue of clemency. Now, this would involve the Californian Governor,

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Speaker 1: Gavin Newsom, granting the brother's release, so he has the

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Speaker 1: power to do that. The Parole Board's decision has to

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Speaker 1: undergo now an internal review, so that will last up

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Speaker 1: to one hundred and twenty days, and after that point,

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Speaker 1: Governor Newsom will have thirty days to either affirm or

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Speaker 1: reverse the Parole Board's decisions. So this means that the

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Speaker 1: Parole board decisions could be overturned, the brothers could be

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Speaker 1: granted immediate release, but we'll have to wait at least

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Speaker 1: five months for an answer, and all of that depends

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Speaker 1: on Gavin Newsom.

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Speaker 2: Has he given us any indication on where he might fall.

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Speaker 1: Interestingly, he's been notably careful. He's tried to kind of

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Speaker 1: remain neutral over the last year. Governor Newsom even appeared

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Speaker 1: on a podcast with Ryan Murphy, who created the Netflix series,

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Speaker 1: where he revealed that he's intentionally avoided watching the show, saying, quote,

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Speaker 1: I don't want to be persuaded by something that's not

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Speaker 1: in the files of the legal evidence that he would

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Speaker 1: be reviewing understandable, but Newsom has acknowledged this is really complicated.

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Speaker 1: He said, quote what good can come from sending a

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Speaker 1: message that you can kill both of your parents and

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Speaker 1: be released. But he also noted that quote other inmates

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Speaker 1: have been granted parole for similar or worse crimes.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: I would say, though, given the prison violations we learned

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Speaker 1: about from these hearings and the DA's strong opposition, it

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Speaker 1: would be politically difficult for Gavin Newsom to go against

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Speaker 1: that advice. So a reversal seems kind of unlikely. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that being said, though, Newsom has reversed one hundred and

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Speaker 1: sixty one paroles for murderers during his time as governor,

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Speaker 1: often citing a lack of accountability from offenders, So we

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Speaker 1: know accountability is important to Newsome.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, and I mean accountability is going to be

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Speaker 2: important to him because it's been very strongly speculated that

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Speaker 2: he's mounting a run for president for twenty twenty eight

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Speaker 2: week exactly, this would be something he'd have to answer

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Speaker 2: questions about.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so he'll be carefully considering, you know, whichever way

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Speaker 1: he decides to go.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, not just the Menandez brothers, but also what it

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Speaker 2: means for his career. Absolutely. Is there any other pathway

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Speaker 2: for the brothers available other than going through the parole

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Speaker 2: system or the Gavin Newsom system.

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Speaker 1: Yes, So with the clemency and parole options looking a

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Speaker 1: little bit further out of reach, now, yeah, there is

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Speaker 1: a possibility of a new trial altogether. This could potentially

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Speaker 1: see the charges against the brothers dropped altogether. Wow, they

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Speaker 1: could be exonerated and released. They did file a petition

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Speaker 1: for a new trial based on new evidence, so that

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Speaker 1: includes the letter to the cousin and the musician who

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Speaker 1: worked with Jose Mendez who alleges abuse, but with the

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Speaker 1: district attorney so against their release, yeah, it seems unlikely.

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Speaker 1: He has argued that the evidence isn't credible, the new

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Speaker 1: evidence and doesn't meet the legal standards for a new trial,

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Speaker 1: and legal experts more broadly say that California is a

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Speaker 1: famously aunoriously tricky state for this kind of proceeding to

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Speaker 1: grant them freedom. So California grants parole to about twenty

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Speaker 1: two percent of prisoners deemed moderate risk, which is how

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Speaker 1: the brothers were classified. And it really seems like the

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Speaker 1: prison violations are kind of the most decisive factor here

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Speaker 1: rather than it being about the original crime itself. It

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Speaker 1: seems that legal authorities in California are a lot more

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Speaker 1: focused on the brother's shortcomings during their thirty years behind

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Speaker 1: bars and how that could impact their future behavior in

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Speaker 1: the community.

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Speaker 2: So to kind of wrap up, nothing's changing for them

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Speaker 2: right now, but there's many possibilities in the coming months

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Speaker 2: and coming year. Absolutely, so I guess this will not

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Speaker 2: be the last time that we talk about the Menandez

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Speaker 2: brothers on this podcast.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I highly doubt it will be listening.

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Speaker 2: Thanks so much for explaining that, Emma, and thank you

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Speaker 2: so much for joining us today. We'll be back again

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Speaker 2: with another deep dive tomorrow and again in your feeds

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Speaker 2: this afternoon with the evening headlines. Until then, have a

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Speaker 2: great day. My name is Lily Maddon and I'm a

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Speaker 2: proud Arunda Bungelung Kalkudin woman from Gadighl country. The Daily

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Speaker 2: oz acknowledges that this podcast is recorded on the lands

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Speaker 2: of the Gadighl people and pays respect to all Aboriginal

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Speaker 2: and torrest Rate island and nations. We pay our respects

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Speaker 2: to the first peoples of these countries, both past and present,