1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,720 Speaker 1: Good morning everybody. Welcome to the Daily Odds. My name 2 00:00:02,800 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: is Sam Kozlowski and it is Monday, the twenty fifth 3 00:00:05,640 --> 00:00:08,039 Speaker 1: of October. We're joined today by a journalist for the 4 00:00:08,080 --> 00:00:11,080 Speaker 1: Daily Ods, Mariah Lattice. But before we get into the news, 5 00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:14,480 Speaker 1: let's wrap up yesterday's COVID numbers from around the country. 6 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,079 Speaker 1: I got to say there is definitely a change in 7 00:00:17,200 --> 00:00:19,799 Speaker 1: tone in the way that leaders are talking about COVID. 8 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:23,560 Speaker 1: Things are looking good, but there are still cases. In 9 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,480 Speaker 1: Victoria there were nineteen hundred and thirty five new cases 10 00:00:26,520 --> 00:00:29,680 Speaker 1: recorded yesterday. New South Wales recorded two hundred and ninety 11 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,519 Speaker 1: six and in the Act there were nine cases of 12 00:00:32,560 --> 00:00:36,720 Speaker 1: COVID nineteen. Mariah, some really exciting news from Victoria yesterday. 13 00:00:36,760 --> 00:00:38,080 Speaker 1: Can you give us the rundowns? 14 00:00:38,520 --> 00:00:41,960 Speaker 2: Fully vaccinated Victorians are set to have additional freedom starting 15 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:44,760 Speaker 2: this Friday. The state is set to hit the eighty 16 00:00:44,880 --> 00:00:49,400 Speaker 2: percent double dose vaccination milestone a week early, with restrictions 17 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:52,080 Speaker 2: to further ease. On Friday, the twenty ninth of October 18 00:00:52,120 --> 00:00:55,240 Speaker 2: at six pm. Here's what Premier Daniel Andrews had to 19 00:00:55,280 --> 00:00:56,120 Speaker 2: say yesterday. 20 00:00:56,520 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 3: There's a contract. There's a fundamental of grid that we 21 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:03,080 Speaker 3: have reached with the Victorian community. We asked you to 22 00:01:03,080 --> 00:01:05,520 Speaker 3: get vaccinated. You have done that in record time and 23 00:01:05,560 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 3: in record numbers, and that means we have to open 24 00:01:09,280 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 3: the place up and we have to have a series 25 00:01:12,520 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 3: of rules. We have to have settings that are the 26 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:19,040 Speaker 3: lightest touch possible, that are the simplest, that are the 27 00:01:19,040 --> 00:01:20,559 Speaker 3: most easily understood. 28 00:01:20,959 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: The freedoms include masks no longer being mandatory in outdoor 29 00:01:24,640 --> 00:01:29,120 Speaker 2: settings where social distancing is possible. Weddings, funerals and religious 30 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: services will return for fully vaccinated individuals, indoors and outdoors 31 00:01:33,840 --> 00:01:37,440 Speaker 2: subject to density limits, and retail stores, gyms and entertainment 32 00:01:37,520 --> 00:01:40,080 Speaker 2: venues will open subject to density limits. 33 00:01:40,920 --> 00:01:44,399 Speaker 1: Just before the evening News last night, the Nationals Party 34 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:47,000 Speaker 1: agreed to back a target of net zero missions by 35 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:50,800 Speaker 1: twenty fifty after a Sunday party room meeting. This is 36 00:01:51,040 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 1: big news at the moment. The commitment is still in 37 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:56,720 Speaker 1: principle and those are the words used by Barnaby Joyce. 38 00:01:57,240 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: A firm commitment will be made once the party has 39 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,920 Speaker 1: the final position taken by cabinet. Essentially this means Prime 40 00:02:03,920 --> 00:02:06,680 Speaker 1: Minister Scott Morrison can make a commitment to reaching net 41 00:02:06,760 --> 00:02:10,560 Speaker 1: zero emissions by twenty fifty at the upcoming Glasgow Climate Conference. 42 00:02:11,440 --> 00:02:14,040 Speaker 2: The New South Wales Government has launched a ten million 43 00:02:14,080 --> 00:02:17,200 Speaker 2: dollar tourism campaign as the state sets to open up 44 00:02:17,320 --> 00:02:21,079 Speaker 2: to fully vaccinated international arrivals on November first, who will 45 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:24,320 Speaker 2: no longer have to enter hotel quarantine. The phil New 46 00:02:24,360 --> 00:02:26,920 Speaker 2: campaign is the largest from the New South Wales government 47 00:02:27,000 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 2: and is set to feature on TV, print outdoor billboards 48 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: and social media. The campaign is part of last week's 49 00:02:33,280 --> 00:02:36,800 Speaker 2: five hundred million tourism lifeline announced by the government. 50 00:02:36,919 --> 00:02:39,680 Speaker 1: And Today's good News. A record number of humpback whale 51 00:02:39,720 --> 00:02:42,360 Speaker 1: calves were spotted off the coast of British Columbia and 52 00:02:42,520 --> 00:02:46,200 Speaker 1: Washington State. Twenty one calves were spotted during this latest 53 00:02:46,200 --> 00:02:49,600 Speaker 1: feeding season, almost double the eleven spotted in twenty twenty. 54 00:02:49,840 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: It's a positive sign for the species after it was 55 00:02:52,160 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 1: endangered just a couple of decades ago, and it was 56 00:02:54,760 --> 00:03:01,920 Speaker 1: great to see them having a whale of time. There's 57 00:03:01,919 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: been one multinational tech company that's been hitting the headlines 58 00:03:05,440 --> 00:03:09,600 Speaker 1: almost daily at the moment, and that's Facebook. Last week, 59 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,280 Speaker 1: Facebook announced a series of changes to its bullying policies. 60 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:17,000 Speaker 1: Part of the changes are specific to public figures, but 61 00:03:17,080 --> 00:03:19,799 Speaker 1: What happens quite often with these sort of press releases 62 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,160 Speaker 1: is that we see it and we don't actually take 63 00:03:22,200 --> 00:03:25,119 Speaker 1: the time to understand what's being proposed by the tech 64 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:28,040 Speaker 1: platform and how that actually impacts readers of the Daily 65 00:03:28,080 --> 00:03:31,160 Speaker 1: Ods who might be some of those public figures. It's 66 00:03:31,200 --> 00:03:34,840 Speaker 1: really interesting for us to really deep dive into what 67 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: these changes look like. And that's exactly what Mariah did 68 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:40,960 Speaker 1: last week. She went straight to the source and actually 69 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:45,080 Speaker 1: asked Facebook to explain not only what these changes are, 70 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,280 Speaker 1: but how they're going to be enforced. Mariah, what were 71 00:03:48,320 --> 00:03:50,600 Speaker 1: your key findings from that investigation. 72 00:03:51,000 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 2: Firstly, I think it's important that we distinguish what exactly 73 00:03:55,080 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 2: changed on Facebook's en and how that will impact public figures. 74 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:02,680 Speaker 2: To the policy change, some of the new content that 75 00:04:02,760 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 2: is now considered banned for public figures includes severe sexualizing 76 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 2: content profiles, pages, groups, or events dedicated to sexualizing the 77 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:16,160 Speaker 2: public figure, derogatory sexualized photoshop images and drawings, attacks through 78 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 2: negative physical descriptions that are tagged to, mention to, or 79 00:04:19,720 --> 00:04:23,280 Speaker 2: posted to the Public Figures account, and degrading content that 80 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: depicts individuals in the process of bodily functions. Of course, 81 00:04:27,760 --> 00:04:29,360 Speaker 2: as you said, Sam, we wanted to look a little 82 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,800 Speaker 2: deeper as to what that looks like, and what we 83 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:34,719 Speaker 2: found through what Facebook shared with us was that Facebook 84 00:04:34,760 --> 00:04:38,279 Speaker 2: will rely on what is known as proactive detection to 85 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,680 Speaker 2: regulate the bulling on the platform. But we know that 86 00:04:41,760 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 2: through leaked internal documents that there are serious doubts amongst 87 00:04:45,640 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 2: some of the company's employees that AI, which is what 88 00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:51,839 Speaker 2: this proactive detection is, will actually be able to detect 89 00:04:51,880 --> 00:04:52,960 Speaker 2: the bulling and abuse. 90 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:56,560 Speaker 1: Okay, so can you give me some examples of content 91 00:04:57,120 --> 00:05:01,120 Speaker 1: that would appear and now be banned to these new guidelines. 92 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:03,640 Speaker 2: It's good that you mentioned that because I also wanted 93 00:05:03,680 --> 00:05:06,159 Speaker 2: to understand what this would look like in real life. 94 00:05:06,440 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 2: So I asked Facebook and they responded with some hypothetical 95 00:05:09,839 --> 00:05:13,280 Speaker 2: examples of specific content. And it could look like if 96 00:05:13,320 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 2: a woman journalist has been subjected to criticism on her 97 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:19,960 Speaker 2: appearance on broadcast news, or if a woman elected official 98 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,560 Speaker 2: has been made the subject of pornographic cartoons circulating on 99 00:05:23,600 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 2: social media. 100 00:05:24,600 --> 00:05:27,680 Speaker 1: So those are some key themes that weren't banned before. 101 00:05:27,800 --> 00:05:29,400 Speaker 1: Is that right correct? 102 00:05:29,440 --> 00:05:33,400 Speaker 2: So now Facebook will specifically target content such as that, 103 00:05:33,839 --> 00:05:36,880 Speaker 2: and that is now specifically outlined within the policy. 104 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,920 Speaker 1: Before we go any further, Maria, you're a tech reporter, 105 00:05:40,080 --> 00:05:42,400 Speaker 1: and this is what you're really good at. When you 106 00:05:42,480 --> 00:05:46,159 Speaker 1: read a statement from Facebook, do you understand all of 107 00:05:46,200 --> 00:05:49,919 Speaker 1: this stuff straight away? Or has this investigation shown you 108 00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:51,040 Speaker 1: that you need to go deeper? 109 00:05:51,120 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 2: For every statement, it's always very hard to understand immediately 110 00:05:55,920 --> 00:05:59,279 Speaker 2: what specifically has changed, and often, as there are with 111 00:05:59,320 --> 00:06:02,880 Speaker 2: any press real there is that attachment of pr and 112 00:06:02,920 --> 00:06:06,440 Speaker 2: so it's important to sort of read those press releases 113 00:06:06,480 --> 00:06:08,839 Speaker 2: and then ask those further questions, and it can be 114 00:06:08,920 --> 00:06:12,760 Speaker 2: quite difficult to decipher what exactly has changed, especially when 115 00:06:13,040 --> 00:06:17,799 Speaker 2: companies like Facebook already have pre existing policies surrounding bulling, 116 00:06:18,200 --> 00:06:20,719 Speaker 2: and it's quite difficult to know the difference between what 117 00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,000 Speaker 2: was banned before and what is now considered banned. 118 00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: Picking up on the point you said earlier, it sounds 119 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:29,279 Speaker 1: like Facebook have told you that they're relying on this 120 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:33,080 Speaker 1: proactive detection idea. Is that the only way that this 121 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:35,120 Speaker 1: type of content can be picked up? And can you 122 00:06:35,160 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: tell me a little bit more about what proactive detection 123 00:06:37,360 --> 00:06:38,080 Speaker 1: actually means? 124 00:06:39,040 --> 00:06:39,360 Speaker 3: Sure? 125 00:06:39,640 --> 00:06:46,160 Speaker 2: So, historically Facebook has relied on a combination of human moderation, 126 00:06:46,440 --> 00:06:50,039 Speaker 2: So detection of that content through human moderation and then 127 00:06:50,360 --> 00:06:55,680 Speaker 2: also AI technology to enforce its bulling policies and all 128 00:06:55,800 --> 00:07:01,120 Speaker 2: policies for that matter. However, there has been skeptic around 129 00:07:01,400 --> 00:07:05,560 Speaker 2: specifically the AI technology to protect individuals and users on 130 00:07:05,640 --> 00:07:09,480 Speaker 2: social media, and we saw when the Wall Street Journal 131 00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,160 Speaker 2: leaked internal documents from Facebook. The documents found that a 132 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:17,920 Speaker 2: Facebook senior engineer and I quote from the article, estimated 133 00:07:17,920 --> 00:07:21,800 Speaker 2: the companies automated systems removed posts that generated just two 134 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:24,720 Speaker 2: percent of the views of hate speech on the platform 135 00:07:24,800 --> 00:07:29,000 Speaker 2: that violated its rules. So we don't know whether the 136 00:07:29,200 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 2: proactive technology, so the AI, will be more successful in 137 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 2: detecting these new breaches, but we do know historically that 138 00:07:36,640 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 2: there has been concerns around other areas of the bulling 139 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,200 Speaker 2: policy likes hate speech and the detection of that content 140 00:07:43,320 --> 00:07:43,840 Speaker 2: with AI. 141 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:45,880 Speaker 1: Is it the only way that this type of content 142 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:46,640 Speaker 1: can be picked up? 143 00:07:46,720 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 2: Users can also report content, so if these public figures 144 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:53,160 Speaker 2: were subjected to this type of bulling, they can also 145 00:07:53,240 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 2: report and their representative can also escalate issues depending on 146 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:01,000 Speaker 2: what the bulling content is. But yes, the classic type 147 00:08:01,000 --> 00:08:04,720 Speaker 2: of user reporting can also be another form of the 148 00:08:04,840 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 2: content detection too. 149 00:08:06,480 --> 00:08:08,520 Speaker 1: So for me, I think a really key point that 150 00:08:08,600 --> 00:08:11,800 Speaker 1: came out of your research is that as society, we're 151 00:08:11,840 --> 00:08:13,920 Speaker 1: going to have to make a choice soon, and that's 152 00:08:13,920 --> 00:08:17,239 Speaker 1: a choice between relying on AI to do this work 153 00:08:17,280 --> 00:08:20,720 Speaker 1: for us or being okay with the fact that sometimes 154 00:08:20,760 --> 00:08:24,120 Speaker 1: AI misses things. Does it sound to you like this 155 00:08:24,200 --> 00:08:27,840 Speaker 1: is a Facebook AI issue or an AI issue across 156 00:08:27,880 --> 00:08:28,560 Speaker 1: the board. 157 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:32,360 Speaker 2: Of course, this will be an AI issue across the board. AI, 158 00:08:32,440 --> 00:08:35,200 Speaker 2: as we know, is rather complex, and social media companies 159 00:08:35,240 --> 00:08:38,640 Speaker 2: are still experimenting with how AI technology can be implemented 160 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:42,160 Speaker 2: within all parts of the company, but specifically towards moderation. 161 00:08:42,760 --> 00:08:46,199 Speaker 2: It will be a ongoing issue. But personally, I think 162 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:48,640 Speaker 2: it's also important to understand that it's also up to 163 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:52,880 Speaker 2: the companies to determine how seriously they want to take 164 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:56,600 Speaker 2: this issue, and much of these barriers that these companies 165 00:08:56,640 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: are going to face, they will be resolved when the 166 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,560 Speaker 2: companies want them to be resolved. Now, considering Facebook has 167 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,400 Speaker 2: been under much scrutiny, considering this latest press release in 168 00:09:05,440 --> 00:09:09,160 Speaker 2: these changes, Facebook seem quite determined. But again it's up 169 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,240 Speaker 2: to Facebook whenever these changes will be implemented and when 170 00:09:13,320 --> 00:09:16,440 Speaker 2: AI will become a stable form of content. 171 00:09:16,120 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: Detection, and just before we wrap up. There's also some 172 00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,600 Speaker 1: news this week that Facebook is about to undergo a 173 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,920 Speaker 1: name change. Are we expecting that this week? 174 00:09:24,040 --> 00:09:28,720 Speaker 2: We are, according to reports, apparently there is no name 175 00:09:28,880 --> 00:09:31,160 Speaker 2: or no name has been set yet, so that's quite 176 00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:34,240 Speaker 2: interesting considering we're expecting an announcement. But yes, we are 177 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:38,680 Speaker 2: expecting Facebook to announce its company name change. It's important 178 00:09:38,720 --> 00:09:40,520 Speaker 2: to know that the app will more than likely stay 179 00:09:40,520 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 2: the same name, but it's just a company as a whole, 180 00:09:42,320 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 2: just like when Google changed to alphabet. But yes, we'll 181 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,000 Speaker 2: see what's going to happen with that. But we do 182 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:53,000 Speaker 2: know that Mark Zuckerberg and Facebook executives want this change 183 00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,400 Speaker 2: to occur to encompass the metaverse, which is an explainer 184 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:58,200 Speaker 2: for another day. 185 00:09:58,559 --> 00:10:00,680 Speaker 1: Oh my, I know that you will be on that 186 00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:03,760 Speaker 1: name change like a rash, and you'll be covering it, 187 00:10:03,800 --> 00:10:06,160 Speaker 1: and then that will be probably on Instagram because as 188 00:10:06,160 --> 00:10:07,840 Speaker 1: soon as we find that out, I imagine we'll have 189 00:10:07,840 --> 00:10:10,000 Speaker 1: a post up pretty quick. You can find us on 190 00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:12,480 Speaker 1: Instagram at the Daily Os and it's where over now 191 00:10:12,480 --> 00:10:16,160 Speaker 1: almost two hundred and seventy thousand Australians are getting their news, 192 00:10:16,480 --> 00:10:19,160 Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. If you enjoyed this podcast, We 193 00:10:19,400 --> 00:10:21,240 Speaker 1: would love you to review it. It really makes a 194 00:10:21,240 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: difference to us as independent media publishers and have a 195 00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:26,240 Speaker 1: sensational start to the week.